Slashdot Mirror
Canadian Record Label Fights RIAA Lawsuits
An anonymous reader writes "Nettwerk Music Group, Canada's leading privately owned record label has
joined
the fight against the RIAA's strategy of individual lawsuits.
Nettwerk CEO Terry McBride says 'Suing music fans is not the solution,
it's the problem. Litigation is not "artist development." Litigation is
a deterrent to
creativity and passion and it is hurting the business I love. The
current actions of the RIAA are not in my artists' best
interests.'"
Paying the legal expenses and fines of one Texas teen isn't joining the fight. It's a publicity stunt. If they want to join the fight, then they should use their clout and cash to take a more substantive swipe at the RIAA than just a tiny, ineffective gesture.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
Did I just see Satan go to his work on a snowscooter?
they have to go and make things so Complicated?
Fractured Element
I have to admit, I was becoming skeptical of this country this week when the Conservative party won the federal election. But this, this is what gives me back some faith in my country.
OH CANADA!
Avril Lavigne, while Canadian, is on Arista, not Nettwork.
The British Phonographic Industry win a court case against two file sharers, with Judges handing down interim damages of £1,500 and £5,000 with costs and further full damages to be determined at a later hearing.
The link in the Slashdot summary goes to someone's blog (yeah, I wonder who "anonymously" submitted it). Here is the actual news item... err, press release... (as linked to from that blog).
But it's nice to see that yet another company is telling off the RIAA.
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
Greubel is accused of having 600 suspected music files on the family computer. The RIAA is targeting nine specific songs, including "Sk8er Boi" by Arista artist Avril Lavigne, a Nettwerk management client. The RIAA has demanded Greubel pay a $9,000 stipulated judgment as a penalty, though it will accept $4,500 should Greubel pay the amount within a specific period of time.
Hmmm....$9000 / 600 = $15 per song! and $4500 / 60 = $7.50 per song if you act now!
I see how this new price model works.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Absolutely. The thing is, nobody has really stood up with a solid legal argument as of yet. The only real legal arguments used against RIAA cases has been "It wasn't me, it was my son" or other weak crap like that. These may work for the individual cases, but they don't really put a dent in the RIAA's case. If Nettwerk does this, they're going to do this with a big lawyer and they are going to battle the issues at the root of the argument. If there is a legal precedent set in court, it will do a lot more damage to the RIAA's campaign against it's own users. In law, precedent is the big battle.
"The current actions of the RIAA are not in my artists' best interests." Well imagine that, attempting to take the actual musicians & artists into consideration! Now there's a concept!!! I do believe that's one of the 1st times I've read any statement like that. Shame on the record industry.
If piracy is still rampant on P2P networks, and music sales are still down... doesn't that mean that more people are not buying the music that they claim on slashdot and elsewhere that they'd buy to support the band? What is going on with this? If most of the new music is so shitty you cannot buy a CD online for $12-$15 (sorry, most of the time claiming you're forced to pay $20 is bullshit with the internet) then why is piracy still rampant?
Unless... few P2P defenders want to admit that they really have no interest in paying for music that they could otherwise get for free. Look, I despise the RIAA as much as the next guy, but if you're downloading the music of a small band, you're not supporting them. No one will notice that and think "hey this is the next great band" except for maybe the hated RIAA's lawyers if they see a spike in P2P traffic. One of my all time favorite bands, Lacuna Coil, has only combined sold a few hundred thousand copies of their albums, most of which came from Ozzfest 2004, and I fail to see how downloading all of Comalies and their new Karmacode album would help them if I cannot see their shows.
Now that I am out of college, I find myself no longer able to support P2P networks used for this purpose. It's a great file sharing approach that's often spoiled by teens and young adults who do have the money to pay for their music, but won't. The turning point came for me when I saw a few poor metalheads non-chalantly paying $17-$20 at Ozzfest for Comalies, then noticed some of my almost upper class friends in CS had no desire to actually buy Comalies, even though they loved every song on the album.
For every 1 honest P2P user, there are probably 10 who aren't. Don't ever forget that the boom in CD sales with Napster in 1998-2000 corresponded to the dotcom bubble!
Disassociate from the RIAA. See how well they do when your not paying their bills
Create a virus that installs a P2P client/server on each machine, and then randomly downloads and shares songs on the major P2P networks. Later, when they RIAA files a suit against a user, they can claim that it wasn't them, but the evil virus that shared these songs. Not only is it not the user's fault, but it's Microsoft's, as the unintentional sharing would have never happened without the security flaws! Proverbial stone of dual avian slaying +2
Has Slashdot found Darl's good twin???
EvilCON - Made Famous by
a McBride who doesn't like to sue people !
I think he is probably not from the same family than the other ones...
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
...these guys aren't any better
To see someone named McBride do something good.
Maybe Darl could learn from this... well probably not.
I think what they're doing is commendable, and we all have to start somewhere. Nettwerk is home to many great artists, and Nettwerk has been very generous with their works, people and bands like my favorites, Sarah McLachlan, Barenaked Ladies, Dido, Chantal Kreviazuk, and many more. I've gotten lots of free Sarah McLachlan stuff over the 15 years I've been a fan, so my loyalty toward her and Nettwerk is pretty well cemented in stone. They've always been an independent label who have not exactly toed the RIAA party line.
Isnt this Skinny Puppy's label? If it doesn't work out for them, they can always throw
bloody animal organs at the RIAA (a la the Vivisect tour).
music lover since 1969
within a few comments the site went blank. Now I got this mabo warning that I should have to warn the site's admin. Serves him right for not switching to Joomla!
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
Ok I admit I am not very well read up on what the RIAA actually does and maybe this is the wrong place to ask this question, but what does an individual record company gain from being a RIAA member?
All I ever hear about RIAA involves lawsuits and similar activities. Do they actually provide anything to the individual record companies besides being a common lobby organization?
"If you can't live without me, why aren't you already dead?"
...because if the Canadians can secure their borders I'm sure that their newly elected government will step in with appropriate effective legislation that will take down the Evil Empire that is the RIAA.
I'll belive it when I see it.
At least this label is a hero (at least at face value):
Nettwerk Music Group has agreed to pay the total expense of all legal fees as well as any fines should the family lose the case against the RIAA.
Given that these guys are the label for BareNaked Ladies, Avril Lavigne, Gob, and a bunch of other Canadians, they at least have some money to back it up.
I guess they way I look at it is this - if they back up a few lawsuits and win, a victory against the RIAA makes them Good(tm). If they lose, say two, cases against some child's grandparents because "Suzie" or "Johnny" downloaded the latest pop rock abomination then at least there won't be a label fronting Avril L. anymore, making them Good(tm).
It is about time one of the record labels stood up and realized that what the RIAA is doing isn't protecting copyrights at all but is slowly eroding the music industry out from under them.
Recently on Slashdot an article said the P2P sharing was still going strong. I'm not really all that surprised because when a group of people finds themselves underseige for some reason it doesn't usually make them stop what they are doing. Just ask the people who live in the Isreali West Bank!
Anyway, suing individual music fans isn't going to make the problem go away, but it is going to hurt the music business. There is evidence right now that suggests that its already hurting the industry, but the RIAA refuse to link their weak sales with their own legal activities. They want to blame their customers. The RIAA is right now in a state of denial, and when they finally wake up they'll discover that its too late to fix things. The music industry will never go away, but after all this crap is finally over it will not be the same as it once was. The music industry will be completely different.
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
thezorch@gmail.com
http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
The pigopolists have been loud, but the rest of us are quietly not using our wallets. Perpetual copyrights and DRM are out of bounds and no one is going to support them.
It's very simple, really, people want their freedom. If you don't want me to share the music you publish, I don't want to buy it. I won't go for technological restrictions either. I'm not giving my money to people who would make sharing a crime. Music is supposed to be shared and it's supposed to be unifying.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
...that the last CD I bought was a Nettwerk CD (Chimera by Delerium). It also seems it's one of the few labels that still pumps out interesting music. And yes, I downloaded three Delerium albums, two of which I bought eventually, and last one will probably buy very soon.
please excuse my apathy
And everything to do with competition by other media, like videogames and dvds, and people being BROKE AS HELL.
"Sales are down because of p2p" is totally spurious and has no factual data to back it up. Meanwhile, people's budgets are stretched thin due to rising costs and lower pay. Unemployment/Joblessness is also very high.
Meanwhile, you can get a dvd of a movie for less then the cost of the soundtrack on CD. With the current pricing structure its no wonder CD sales are decreasing.
from
http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp>
Both Nettwork Records and their US/international
distributor, BMG/Arista Records (well, all divisions
of BMG, I figure), are reporting members of the RIAA.
So, what are the ramifications of a portion of the RIAA
suing itself? Maybe it's somewhat like the RIAA isn't really
polling its members to obtain their views, so that it can
accurately reflect and represent them?
Pondersome.
Any label that had room for both Sarah MacLachlan and Skinny Puppy has to be at least kind of interesting.
"We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all." - Douglas Adams
Uses DRM schemes on their CD's. A Delerium CD was one of the few CD's I could not actually rip in Windows (riped beautifully in iTunes for Mac though). Perhaps Nettwerk feels a little more secure in their ability to prevent unwanted distribution, but they are right up their with the RIAA in terms of limiting individual rights when it comes to how a person wants to listen to the music they purchased. Good to know that they won't resort to suing customers for breaking DRM schemes.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Thus far we haven't had lawsuits here. You can count on the conservatives to give CRIA the same options as RIAA has in the USA. Conservatives are pretty near the same as the GOP. #1 rule, the most buisness friendly climate possible, and that means friendly to squashing those evil 12 year girls downloading mp3s with massive lawsuits.
The political parties are all have a different ratio in favoring the individual/corporation. The conservatives are farthest to the right and will favor corporations the most over individuals.
I would think this was obvious.
The mind BOGGLES at the concept that someone named MCBride is against suing (see SCO Vs IBM, Autozone, MBZ, and Novell)
I almost fell out of my chair. Good for him!
Have you compiled your kernel today??
It actually says "Distributed Labels of Reporting Companies". What exactly does that mean? Could it be that Nettwerk is distribuited by a RIAA member (BMG / Sony) rather than beign a member themselves?
please excuse my apathy
Remember, these are the same guys who signed up to distribute EA's body of work: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051104/20051103006190.html ?.v=1
As far as I'm concerned the fight is over. There are plenty of ways to get high quality music without giving a penny to the RIAA, buying used cds for example. I will continue to support artists by going to live shows, etc. but the RIAA will never see a penny of my money until the day I die!
Content can and should be free. Instead of McDonalds paying Justin Timberlake or Micheal Jackson 50 million dollars why not offer 50 million free downloads if you visit their site or buy one of their combos?
DOWN WITH THE RIAA - THE BLOATWARE OF THE MUSIC INDUSTRY!
If they can make the RIAA actually prove their case in court then this is worthwhile. If they just plan to cheaply exit by paying the extortion, then we all know which artist we should be downloading and sharing next.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Hmm, what's this....?
Afterglow Live
Bloom
Oh dear, I don't think Nettwerk is able to protect you now. How did SunComm and XCP get there?
I really wanted Bloom, but there's no way I'm willingly going to accept that crap. Nettwerk is going to have to try a little harder than simply saying "oh, suing people is bad."
So can't the RIAA just make this go away by dropping their claim of infringement against that one song? Seems such a quick exit for them that I'm surprised they haven't done it already.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
on emusic. I buy there whenever possible, to 'protest DRM with my wallet' so to speak. Otherwise I just buy the CD and rip it.
For years and years, Terry has always droned on and on and on in interviews about how piracy is evil, how it is destroying the music industry, how the industry needs to stop all this piracy, how enforcement needs to increase to discourage people, etc....
Now he's saying "we'll pay the legal fees for this family's fight with the RIAA"???
With Nettwerk regularly letting people go over the past couple of years, with disgruntled artists leaving to other management firms, etc., it's not like he's got money to spare for the cause. Anyone still working there is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Here's what the press release really says:
We're nice to the little guy! Please buy this Sarah remix CD!
personally i think this is great. but i feel like making a couple of points as i see the usual arguing here.
1.if you have a blank tape (VHS or audio)that has been used and are blasting P2P users, eat a big bowl of shut the hell up, the tech isn't the issue, it's the actions. if you taped disco inferno in the 70's off the radio and let a friend listen to it, you too are demon spawn not letting money get to the labels.
2.i support P2P, i also supported tape trading and making comps of indie bands for friends since i was a teen, as i knew the music that some of my friends listened to had no advertising except word of mouth and touring.
3.in relation to the above some would say, but it's not a big crime to tape a show on TV or off the radio....i say to you recall your history where the "man" tried to get laws established but failed citing the same concepts as they are now
4.up until now, many artists had been relatively quiet about how things were turning out, but as shown by this story, the artists are saying "no" RIAA doesn't represent their interests. RIAA is representing accountants and middle managers success in the music industry and IMHO we could lose all of them and not have any significant impact on music(except it may actually get better). RIAA and groups like it leech off of the music industry, they are not THE industry.
5.i download more now than ever(thank you bit torrent sites i will not mention here as they are closed invite only sites) with the easiest access to music ever, considerly better than Napster at its best. ALSO i have never purchased so much music before, i go to more shows and purchase band junk like shirts, i EVEN on occassion purchase a CD that i already have a downloaded copy of, but in that case i am usually a really big fan of the band and desire the better audio and "package" of the cd.
6. i swear that if copyright goes to far, i will copyright myself and then walk through London and then sue London for video taping me. then i retire rich in the queens palace.
7. i will now shut the hell up, if you are innocent of ever having recorded something on TV or the radio feel free to throw stones at me, i still won't care, but if you have than i will get angry and call you a hypocritical piece of crap.
Just another reason to love nettwerk - I was checking out their website (http://www.nettwerk.com/) and noticed that you could pay for music ($0.99) and download a real mp3. No DRM included. While it's not quite as impressive as OGG files would be, it's just another example demonstrating that not all the record labels are RIAA-evil.
Nettwerk: By standing up to the RIAA like this, we're sticking it to The Man! ... Maybe.
Generic Lackey: But, you are The Man. So does this mean you're sticking it to yourself?
Nettwerk:
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
What is up with everyone assuming that CANADIAN Record Label = AMERICAN Record Label?
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
well, assuming there is publicity, RIAA continues its facist tyrade and sues person W for infringing copyrights of songs of company Z. Company Z hears about this and agrees with Company Y and decides to do the exact same thing. then eventually, we exhaust all Characters on our keyboards then the RIAA moves to a more lucrative language area (read: Japan) and then none of us care because RIAA is out of North America. on another note, lets play a game: you get one point for every negative connotative fluff you can come up with to portray RIAA as baby eating monster corporation.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
....on Slashdot at work and FINALLY! RESULTS!
Fractured Element
Why do we Quebecers tend to hate their own that make it?
Celine can actually sing, live, without recording engineering making he sound good. It's really easy to find people in the industry (who actually know what thney are talking about) praise her. If you don't like what she sings, then fine for you. But that doesn't mean that she's not extremely talented (and worked hard to get there too).
I've been reading that this is a PR stunt from a little Canadian label. Well, it may be ... but what you guys are missing is that they DO seem to "Get it"
Visit their site: http://www.nettwerk.com/
Guess what they sell. MP3s!
I for one, am going to be writing them a letter thanking them for understanding that not all their customers are crooks and that they shouldn't be punishing everyone because of a few bad apples.
Nettwerk++
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
A lot of disussion here seems to assume that Nettwork is in favour of file sharing and not protecting artists revenues. This is far from the truth, they know that file sharing is completely legal in Canada and they are trying to promote buying MP3's from them by saying 'look at us, we're on your side!'
http://crimespree.ca/ - photography, mountain biking
"So, what are the ramifications of a portion of the RIAA suing itself?"
It's not the RIAA suing itself. The RIAA is a trade group, of which many record companies are members.
Think of it more like a doctor suing the AMA.
Anyway, this isn't too uncommon. I knew a guy who ran a guy who ran an indie record company. He said on more than one occasion that although he was a member of the RIAA (for all the benefits that joining provided), the RIAA did not speak for him.
For what it's worth, this guy was young ( lay off his friends. He put in 60-hour weeks and loved the hell out of the music. This is why I sadly shake my head when I see teenagers justifying piracy because music industry employees are a generation older than them, richer than them, and thus not of any consequence.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
So then how does this all work? I take it Nettwork holds the copyrights to these songs and Sony/BMG just distributes the CDs for them.
So if the RIAA sues because someone downloads Nettwork's song (distributed by one of their members), and Nettwork actively supports the "infringer," what effect will that have on the case?
My Sysadmin Blog
Nettwerk has always been my favorite label, promoting the best early industrial bands including Skinny Puppy. I can understand how they 'get it' with file sharing, as opposed to the big conglomerates.
"I don't see it making a dent in the effect the RIAA's terrorist tactics have."
/.ers said the RIAA should sue individual copyright infringers, instead of Kazaa, Limewire, etc., back before there were individual lawsuits. Now someone suing someone based on reasonable evidence that they are commtting copyright infringement is a terrorist activity. yeah, ok, whatever.
I remember when
Vote for Pedro
I like the Werkshop, tho. I dropped a line to them to see what version they sell there.
The laywer involved in this case is Charles Mudd, and the press release is on his site (sorry Charles if you get slashdotted!)
Not! These are the same guys that used Cactus on their CD's for a while to try and *prevent* the music from being copied.
In Canada, we pay a tax on blank media that goes back to these clowns, which in essence gives us the right to copy what we purchase.
I avoided anything published by N*O*Twerks, and still do because of this. However, the last disc I bought I forgot to look at the label, and discovered it was a N*O*Twerk cd.
I then discovered that the music was made possible by a Government Grant!! I figured I had enough and was going to make a legal stink about cactus-ing a CD, paid for by the people of Canada, and we cannot copy it even though we pay a levy... and then I realized it was not cactus-ed.
So when I finally get to see the other CD's revamped, then I'll start purchasing CD's from them, but until N*O*Twerk recalls all the catus-ed cd's, I am still boycotting them.
Just my 0.02$ CAD
A
Abigail Washburn , Alpha , Autour De Lucie , Avia , Avril Lavigne , Amy Correia , Andy Hunter , Adrienne Pierce
B
Barenaked Ladies , The Be Good Tanyas , Billy Talent , Brand New , BT , Butterfly Boucher ,
C
Shelley Campbell , Margaret Cho , Coralie Clement , The Clumsy Lovers , Conjure One , Amy Correia , Chantal Kreviazuk
D
David Mead , Delerium , The Devlins , Dieselboy , The Divine Comedy , DJ Colette ,
E
Susan Enan , Erin McKeown ,
F
Fear of Music , Neil Finn , The Finn Brothers , Foghorn Stringband , The Format ,
G
Gabriel & Dresden , Gob , Goldspot , Guster , Griffin House ,
H
Hem , Hackensaw Boys , The Hermit , Griffin House , Andy Hunter ,
I
Ina , Ivy ,
J
Jars of Clay , Junior Jack , John Mann , Josh Rouse ,
K
Kinky , Kirsty Hawkshaw , Chantal Kreviazuk , Kristian Leontiou , Karin Strom ,
L
Kristian Leontiou , Lester , Lhasa , Toby Lightman ,
M
Margaret Cho , Matt Wertz , Melissa McClelland , Tara MacLean , John Mann , MC Lars , Erin McKeown , Sarah McLachlan , Tom McRae , Mediaeval Baebes , Men Women & Children , Martina Sorbara ,
N
Neil Finn , Nathan , Noel Sanger ,
O
Oh Susanna , Old Crow Medicine Show ,
P
Pezz (early Billy Talent) , Panurge , The Perishers , Adrienne Pierce , Po' Girl , Paul van Dyk ,
R
Robert Post , Josh Rouse , Ron Sexsmith ,
S
Shelley Campbell , Susan Enan , Sarah McLachlan , Sander Kleinenberg , State Radio , The Submarines , Noel Sanger , Ron Sexsmith , Sixpence None The Richer , Martina Sorbara , Stereophonics , Karin Strom , Swollen Members ,
T
The Be Good Tanyas , The Clumsy Lovers , The Devlins , The Divine Comedy , The Finn Brothers , The Format , The Hermit , Toby Lightman , Tara MacLean , Tom McRae , The Perishers , The Submarines , Tiesto , Trespassers William , Treble Charger , The Weepies ,
V
Paul van Dyk
W
The Weepies
This artist is on a Nettwerk Label (US, Canada or UK) This artists is managed by Nettwerk Management
Oh no, I hadn't heard... you guys too, huh? i'm so sorry.
Just this last Christmas, they sold the album "Barenaked for the Holidays" on a USB stick - all MP3, along with some video content.
Also they sell pretty much every Barenaked Ladies concert in MP3 or even lossless (I think, can't quite remember the format options) if you want.
That's some smart thinking there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A couple years ago I purchased 2 cds directly from Nettwerk. Delerium Chimera, and Conjure One.
I was upset to find that I could not rip the first track off of the Delerium CD. After a letter I sent them with my complaint and concerns. They replied back saying that they are not a part of the RIAA and do not agree with the tactics being used. And were nice enough to point out that the bounus CD they sent be contained the first track that would not copy off of the original disk. And that this one would rip without problem. So, I was able to play the entire ablum on my mp3 player.
Not the response I expected from a record company. Nettwerk realy does seem to care about thier customers.
I have not purchased a single RIAA CD since. (With exception to allofmp3.com)
$90000 / 9 = $1000 per song, and $4,500 / 9 = $500 per song
:P
The RIAA is only suing over 9 songs. That is, they only have evidence that she uploaded 9 songs. The 600 on her computer may not even be illegal; they may have been CD rips, iTunes downloads, who knows. $15 per song makes the penalty seem almost reasonable
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
I'm more interested in books than music. I buy my SF from Baen Books... because they offer DRM-free e-books in multiple formats, including RTF and Palm PDA at significant cost-savings over their dead-tree product.
I'm sure that I could find their stuff posted to Usenet or P2P, but it's a lot less hassle to simply go to their site, buy, download, and enjoy than it is to do a massive search for a file and then likely as not, find that it contains anything but the content I actually wanted. "Stealing" via P2P only pays if your time isn't worth anything. Perhaps your "1 honest P2P user, there are probably 10 who aren't" sample corresponds to a small minority of people whose time isn't worth anything. The cure? Not mindlessly endorsing *AA propaganda, get smarter friends instead.
BTW, Baen Books also has one other major distinction from the content providers who insist on offering DRM-broken formats that'll only run on the computers they are locked to after one has to download and install their proprietary readers. They are making money off digital content.
Don't ever forget that the boom in CD sales with Napster in 1998-2000 corresponded to the dotcom bubble!
So you're saying that people buy more CDs during boom times than bad times and that P2P availability is irrelevant? Read what you post before hitting "submit".
Tech Public Policy stuff
Now someone suing someone based on reasonable evidence that they are commtting copyright infringement is a terrorist activity. yeah, ok, whatever.
Your employer's idea of "reasonable evidence" is filenames with vague resemblances to actual RIAA label song names gathered by bot, which has no resemblance to anything anybody asked for on slashdot and everybody around here knows it. Perhaps you can get away with your bullshit on mtv.com forums, but you're going to be called on it here.
Tech Public Policy stuff
I am honest, and I use gnutella for my music. I will and do pay for music and other content. I tend to not pay for CD's because copyright is immoral. I have a right to copy. It's time to revise business models.