Slashdot Mirror
Videogames Affect Your Brain
ozmm writes "A story on GameSpot explains the concept of 'mirror neurons.' When we shoot a gun, certain neurons fire in our brain. When we see someone else shoot a gun, even a video game character, the exact same neurons fire. How do virtual reactions affect our lives and thoughts? This short but sweet article touches on all of this and more." From the article: "We can tell if someone is watching a television by the way that person is facing it--even if we can't see or hear if the television is even on. It also means that we can experience the mental states associated with actions without ever having to perform those actions. In video games, in particular, it's like we're automatically empathizing with what is happening on the screen as if we were the video game characters ourselves. If you've ever had a particularly heart-palpitating race in Burnout, surely you can relate."
...Jack Thompson orgasms.
The science behind mirror neuron study is advancing an understanding of how humans and animals learn complex tasks. Ramachandran talks about the intelligence of the octopus in learning to open jars from watching another. The mirror neuron firing is intense and highly measurable in this species.
Sigs cause cancer.
More links between violent video games and violent youth... yada yada yada.
Luckily for us, shooting a gun is perfectly legal. I can goto any range in the area and squeze off a few rounds. Now, what would really be interesting is if it is the same nuerons (and only the same) that fire when someone shoots a gun intending to kill some one.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
After playing Mario 64 for 11 hours I totally empathized with the headache resulting from Mario's brick breaking antics.
When we see someone else shoot a gun, even a video game character, the exact same neurons fire.
So that makes watching a movie different from playing a game... how?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I have had some particularly exciting races in Burnout to Burnout:Revenge. I can conclusively say that I'm *not* experiencing what the videogame character would feel (pure terror followed by death and dismemberment) but rather excitment.
Also I've fired a gun, and I've played Quake. I get two very different feelings from both. Perhaps their test subjects weren't "used" to gaming and thus less able to separate the fantasy from the reality?
Rampant speculation? Check.
Pseudoscientific Terms? Check.
Pictures of Latest Games? Check.
Complete Lack Of Hard Data Whatsoever? Check.
Congradulations audience. YHJBT.
May the Maths Be with you!
Well, that answers that question.
This is the NFL, which stands for "Not For Long" if you keep making those bulls*** calls.
I myself have a really bad case of ADHD. before i was diagnosed to have ADHD I used to play videogames for about 3 to 5 hours a day. This actually helped me build up concentration and teach me to focuss due to the postive (1 up) and negative (game over) feedback that the games gave me.
This is the same concept that modern neurofeedback treatment uses.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
At least when we fire a gun in a video game we have some thought pattern. I'd like to see this study done on people grinding levels in WoW or another MMORPG. I know my brain isn't waving when I'm grinding. Kill... grab stuff... skin... grab stuff... heal... kill.. ...
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
so that's why porn is so awesome
Funny. Most liberals would call Jack Thompson a conservative freak. After all, it is the conservatives that like to snoop on Americans and restrict their rights. Won't anybody think of the children?
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
After some long term gaming sessions, I find myself looking around suddenly when I hear noises that sounded vaguely like something threatening from the game. This once happened to me at a library after playing way too much Quake 2.
This sig is false.
Of COURSE videogames affect your brain. During the Tetris craze of the late 80's I would not only DREAM Tetris, I would DAY dream Tetris. I distinctly recall sitting in various highschool classes, staring up at the ceiling, and "playing" Tetris with the drop-ceiling tiles!
And, yes, before anyone asks, I DID have the high-score.
Igi
Utter garbage! Playing Doom for 9 hours a day all of the last 12 years hasn't had any effect on me! ....Oohh, someones at my door. Sorry people - I gotta go get my chainsaw. ...Hmm...looks like I need a bigger freezer too...ho hum...
"...So I hung back and lurked. For 18 months. Can't beat a good old-fashioned lurking."
In short, to claim censorship as a left or right issue is short sighted. Any kind of censorship should be held as politically bad move by the citizens in all aspects, except when it comes to under age children.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... if any at all?!? ;-)
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
Nice flamebait goat. Pat yourself on the back.
In Soviet Russia mirror neurons fire you. Aw hell. Ive obviously been following slashdot too long....
Won't anybody think of the children?
Do you mean the children Tipper Gore was seeking to protect with the PMRC? The children that Bill Clinton was protecting backing the V-chip? The children that Democrat senators are protecting by introducing anti-video game legislation?
Don't think that conservatives have a strangle hold on snooping on Americans and restricting rights.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
"Videogames Affect Your Brain"
Unless you're already brain dead, doesn't every stimulus affect your brain in some way?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I do not feel any emotive reaction when I am shot dead in any Enemy Territory or Quake, but I have quite a deep depression when loosing battle in Globulation-2 or Warzone 2100. Perhaps I should start a politician career to lead my nation for victories...
There you are, staring at me again.
Jack Thompson is a man of conservative morals. But he wants legislative changes, which makes him a political liberal. Which means that he is the type of person you never want to be in power.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
When will you numbskulls wake up. Those who are actualyl controlling things behind the scenes are playing conservatives and liberals like decks of cards.
Odd how both groups can feel justified accusing each other of the same thing, no?
In South Korea, old people don't have mirror neurons.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Sad but true.
I've found this to be true for many games.
While they talk about mirror neurons and super mirror neurons, it's telling that they use "a particularly heart-palpitating race in Burnout" as their example.
What's going on in Burnout isn't just neurons firing, you've also got hormones pumping.
Hormones are the reason that simulators are only so effective. When I skid out on ice during a driving game, I don't panic and think "Oh SHIT! I'm gonna die." In real life, even if I don't get hit with a flood of chemicals at the moment I fucked up, afterwards, my body & brain will practically be awash with them.
Simulations & games don't have real consequences and for the most part, your brain and body knows the difference.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
will wrapping ur head in tinfoil help?
lol i was around slashdot for too long as well
Will people who played pac man, enjoy dark places with blinking colors while hearing buzz music and eating pills. Oh wait...
Léa Gris
I do research on mirror neurons... I work with Marco Iacoboni who is quoted in the article. I also play WoW.
One question that is not yet answered is just how realistic a computer generated movement has to be to engage the mirror neuron system, and what properties of the movement our motor neurons really pay attention to. Much of the research on mirror neurons focuses on reaching and grasping movements (since these are important to monkeys where the data were first recorded). Those kinds of things tend to be pretty poorly implemented in computer games in my experience, while gross movements like walking and running seem pretty convincing.
It would be an interesting study to compare mirror neuron activity while watching live actors to watching computer generated avatars. You would probably get more activity in gamers who are familiar with the virtual movements.
It's obvious that video games affect people's brains. Every experience shapes our world view. In other news: Breathing affects our lungs.
I remember playing Doom as a kid and being startled by imps or the growl of a pink beast coming up behind me. That doesn't mean that in the real world I'm going to be tricked by my brain into thinking there is an actual imp coming to get me if I hear a screech in the distance. It's the same as reading. When I read a Star Trek book, I'm not in the 24th Century, but a brain scan of my thought processes might indicate that. Humans like to immerse themselves in fiction, it's why so much of our entertainment is fiction based. Only nutty people would think that their special kid is seeing ghosts after they watch The Sixth Sense. Why would sane people try to accuse video games of making their kids try to fly, or race cars?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
That being said, he used to eat, sleep and breathe Evercrack. Now he eats, sleeps and breathes WoW. He takes (what we mockingly refer to as) guild calls at ork. He spends most of his day posting on WoW message boards. He shows up late every morning because he doesn't go to bed until two hours before he has to be here. He goes home at lunch every day and comes back a minimum of fifteen minutes late, because he doesn't eat his lunch at home, he logs in and 'games' (and brings his lunch back here to eat at his desk). Oh, and he leaves early to make up for coming in late.
So, to answer your question...if a slug can figure it out, why not a higher lifeform like an octopus?
--
Sig nor
and that would be why I stopped playing video games ... analysing daily life by how to get to the "next level" freaked me out.
So... the laws we have now are perfect, and you wouldn't want anybody in office who would ever want to change any of them? And only liberals try to change laws? And you're smoking what?
I served in the Marine Corps reserve as a squad leader in a LAR company (Charlie Co., 4th LAR, 4th MARDIV, 1994-2002). I have trained in every skill the LAR scouts are tested on. I have worked with miles gear, planned and led training in combat, security and recon patrols in the mountains, in urban and desert environments; I have called for fire for mortar, artillery and air strikes. All in training. I have also played FPS games and let me tell you, nothing about it is the same. Throw on a flak vest, kevlar and 30-60 lbs. of gear, ammo and food, then lead your fellow Marines into 90+ degree weather on a 2000 meter patrol route through mountainous terrain, culminating in a full-on assault on a motorized pop-up target range. In gas masks. And that's just training. Never been to combat, myself. Tell me, which part of that is similar to sitting on your lazy butt in your living room, waggling your fingers and thumbs? None of it? Good Answer!! There are so many elements to armed combat that lead up to the possibility of pulling the trigger that comparing the two seems ludricrous to me. If videogames were anything like the real thing then in an FPS you would only be shooting a minute or two out of every hour. When your FPS game comes with 120 lbs of gear, a couple of cases of ammo, a rifle, some uniforms and five months of military, physical and combat training, then you can start making comparisons. Or you could simply join the Marines. If you could hack it. Maybe, on 2nd thought, you are better off in your living room.
so _you_ where the one with the highscore in ceiling tile tetris. I spent years trying to beat you!
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"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
I am NOT saying I am liberal or conservative or republican or democratic. What I'm saying is the terms liberal and conservative can mean many different things.
Someone who is (politically) conservative doesn't want change. These are the people who will defend the constitution and depend on legal precedence. (IOW, these people make good supreme court justices).
Someone who is (politically) liberal wants change. These are the people who see the problems with the current situation and want to correct it. (IOW, these people make good congressmen and senators)
In America, we started off with a pretty religious, and strict social and political environment (compared to now). So, calling a person conservative (meaning, they don't want change) became synonymous with white Christian men.
The problem is people aren't just liberal or conservative. Take Pres Bush for example. He is considered a conservative, but he takes a very liberal approach to running the country.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Where are you getting these definitions?
Definitions of conservative on the Web:
* resistant to change
* opposed to liberal reforms
* cautious: avoiding excess; "a conservative estimate"
* a person who has conservative ideas or opinions
Definitions of liberal on the Web:
* broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant of his opponent's opinions"
* having political or social views favoring reform and progress
* tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
* a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
* big: given or giving freely; "was a big tipper"; "the bounteous goodness of God"; "bountiful compliments"; "a freehanded host"; "a handsome allowance"; "Saturday's child is loving and giving"; "a liberal backer of the arts"; "a munificent gift"; "her fond and openhanded grandfather"
* a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets
* free: not literal; "a loose interpretation of what she had been told"; "a free translation of the poem"
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Scientists have also linked mirror neurons to autism. It has been suggested that in the autistic brain, mirror neurons are either absent or in short supply. Mirror neurons fire off a signal whenever we see another person exhibiting any signs of emotion or stress, so it makes sense that they would fire off whenever we see a character doing something we would consider stressful. It's part of what helps us be part of a larger community of empathic beings. This explains why mirror neurons are linked to autism: Autistic people often have great difficulty understanding the emotions and motives of others, and thus seem entirely alien and separate to most non-autistic people. It also explains why some people cried when Aeris died :)
I am scientifically inaccurate.
So you mean to tell me that the fast analysis response neurons in the fusiform gyrus actually learn and respond when you're playing a game which just might require fast intuitive response?
Blimey! I'd never have guessed that.
Mirror neurons are used to make split-second judgements. They're behind what most people call "intuition" or "gut feeling". And you make those decisions in less than a second - incredibly well, surprisingly.
Go read the book Blink! - it's full of information about how this system works.
Coming soon - pyrogyra
No they don't! *searches around frantically for a "Cancel" button*
I don't get it. The knee-jerk reaction to a news story like this is always: "Oh, that's stupid, blah blah blah, more anti-videogame-violence crusading."
/.ers so afraid even of the suggestion?
But listen, jeezus. Don't you at least want to hear the arguments first? Look at the research? *Understand* the research, even a little?
I mean, if there is some validity to the theory that violent videogames (yes, and movies and television and whatever) *lead* to violent behavior, even indirectly, wouldn't you at least want to *know*?
Why are
Listen, just about everyone here already considers the ID'ers irredeemably stupid. The goal of the original post wasn't to try and rub their noses in it. It was to say, "Look, this article is so poorly thought out that it shows strong parallels with already established idiocy on the level of ID! That's how awful this rubbish is!"
The ID stuff wasn't the goal of the post, it was just a point of reference.
Michael Posner has developed a "game-like" interactive training scheme that has been shown to increase some measurements of working memory and increase nonverbal IQ scores. Other researchers (Cogmed) have followed suit, even going so far as to manufacture video games for kids with ADHD.
And it's no surprise the military is interested in video games (ever play "america's army?) given that other research has shown that habitual video game players have a shorter attentional blink (basically it's the "recovery" time you need to process multiple stimuli) and have a greater capacity for subitizing. See the excellent Mind Hacks chapter on video games, or this short article for more.
What's really amazing is that games may even be a universal phenomenon among more intelligent species - Stan Kuczaj and Lauren Highfill recently observed dolphins playing over 317 distinct versions of various games, including easier versions for the younger dolphins. Whether they have underwater consoles remains to be seen...
Fair enough. Seems strange though because it defines the two in terms of what they want compared to what exists now. By some of those definitions, someone advocating changing our laws to be simpler, with smaller government and less regulation would be considered liberal (favoring reform and progress), and those on the opposite side conservative (resistant to change). However, I think that's the opposite of how people think of themselves - that is, those favoring such reforms generally consider themselves conservative. It also implies that if a liberal gets all the reforms they want, they either start looking for new reforms to push for, or they then become conservative because then they don't want further change. Likewise, a conservative would become a liberal if the status quo changes and they no longer favor existing laws, because then they would start trying to change things. I guess I don't care for those definitions much, but maybe I'm in a minority.
Or more precisely, creating a population which will be inclined to accept a certain type of reality.
People hanker for the real world to fit what they think their brains are wired for. It's a subconscious drive. Once that reality is achieved, it hardly matters if there are discrepancies between reality and the simulator/mind-programming systems; Bush and his elitist friends are still getting rich in signing billions of dollars in weapons contracts.
-FL
Original definition of Liberal.
"Classical liberalism focuses on concepts of individual autonomy and private property, and argues that the sole legitimate function of government is to defend these."
"Modern liberalism tends to deviate from this definition of the term "liberal" in that it espouses the use of the power of government to achieve a variety of desirable goals, ranging from social justice to economic equality."
The first is Liberal as in Liberty oriented. The second is Authoritarian.
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Do some reading on both classical liberalism and classical conservatism.
Originally liberalism meant ensuring the individual had as much freedom as possible. This includes the respionsibilty for your choices both good and bad. Modern liberalism seeks to minimize the individuals choice, and to replace it with what the "educated elites" in government decide are the proper choices.
E.G. firearm ownership and self-defense bad, involuntary redistribution of wealth (social security) good.
Modern conservatism does this in a similar way for different issues. E.G. abortion bad, state militarism good, christianity good, non-christianity bad. Both have been corrupted from their original meanings into slightly different branches of authoritarianism.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!