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RFID Injection Required for Datacenter Access

user24 writes "Security focus reports that RFID injections are now required for access to the datacenter of a Cincinnati company. From the article 'In the past, employees accessed the room with an RFID tag which hung from their keychains, however under the new regulations an implantable, glass encapsulated RFID tag from VeriChip must be injected into the bicep to gain access ... although the company does not require the microchips be implanted to maintain employment.'"

102 of 551 comments (clear)

  1. Comrades... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and the Comrades marched rank and file into their working facility, while the Big Brother telescreen carefully scanned each implanted chip...

    1. Re:Comrades... by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 2, Informative

      Shenanigans.

      I saw a representative from this company on Fox News yesterday (he was the IT manager) and he explicitly stated that participation was voluntary. Two employees had the implant, one of those was the CEO. The fellow being interviewed carried his RFID on his keychain.

  2. A milestone by suso · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is this the first time civilians have been required to do thing type of thing? I guess its no longer science fiction.

    1. Re:A milestone by servognome · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is this the first time civilians have been required to do thing type of thing?

      Lots of stuff has been done to monitor civilian employees: Drug testing, email snooping, time card punching, video monitoring, background/credit checks, etc.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    2. Re:A milestone by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, there were those number tattoos in the Nazi slave labor camps...

      --
      This space available.
    3. Re:A milestone by JabberWokky · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Godwin's Law does not apply when there is a legitimate historical reference to Nazis. I'd say this one actually is a proper and on-topic reference, as there aren't many other cases of forced permanent identification or serialization. I can think of plenty of "mode of dress" and uniform enforcements, but no other examples of permanent body modifications that mark specific individuals.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    4. Re:A milestone by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Funny

      Jafafa's Law: Anyone who tries through reflexive and thoughtless exclamation to inhibit the very valid practice of comparing for the purpose of gaining perspective a behavior to known extremes is a fucking putz.

      (I admit it's not very catchy.)

      --
      This space available.
    5. Re:A milestone by teslafreak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "there aren't many other cases of forced permanent identification"

      And there isn't one here.

      It says right on the story that it is NOT required to stay employed. If you don't like the idea, don't do it.

    6. Re:A milestone by fungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Slaves and criminals were marked with red hot iron before. It happened in America and elsewhere. If that's not forced permanent identification, I wonder what is.

      http://www.ralphmag.org/slave2.html
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branding_(law)

    7. Re:A milestone by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And there isn't one here.

      It says right on the story that it is NOT required to stay employed. If you don't like the idea, don't do it.

      Wrong. TFA specifically states:

      In the past, employees accessed the room with an RFID tag which hung from their keychains, however under the new regulations an implantable, glass encapsulated RFID tag from VeriChip must be injected into the bicep to gain access, a release from spychips.com said on Thursday.

      Although the company does not require the microchips be implanted to maintain employment, anyone without one will not be able to access the datacenter, according to a Register article.

      Thus, *IF* you work in that datacenter, then you *MUST* get an RFID chip in the bicep. *IF* you refuse the chip, then you *CANNOT* enter the datacenter -- and thus, how do you do your job?

      Perhaps the company will be able to re-position people who adamantly refuse to be chipped. However, my suspicion is that:

      1) The company isn't big enough to have so many such possible positions available (just look at their "About Us" page -- doesn't this look rather low-grade and unprofessional?), and

      2) Every employee will go along with it anyway, like a bunch of goddamn cattle being taken to slaughter. *Especially* if the people working there are willingly working for what is a surveillance company...
    8. Re:A milestone by JabberWokky · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Perhaps I worded it poorly... none of those mark *specific* individuals, i.e., function as identity that can be referenced per person a la a serial number (thus my use of the term "serialization"). Lots of group tattoos and marks that show affiliation, and several non-permanent things like dog tags that are worn, but I can't offhand think of anything like dog tags or drivers licenses (i.e., specific identity) that are forcibly and permanently marked upon an individual's body other than the Nazi tattoos.

      Maybe there are, but none of the replies have been specific to more than just a group.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    9. Re:A milestone by Richy_T · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But RFID doesn not require the participation of the owner. That stranger who just jostled you in the subway now has your RFID code (You can make RFID readers *small*) Now a)You don't know the code has been stolen (vs having your passcard lost or stolen) and b)When you do discover the code as been stolen, changing your own code is a *lot* more hassle than issuing a new passcard.

      These things could be negated by RFID chips with rolling codes or read/write ability but these are not commonly available in the glass capsule RFID chips. I'd give good odds that this company is not pushing the boudaries either and has the standard one-id versions.

      Bear in mind that RFID devices are operating on the limits of what power can be obtained from a fairly weak power source in the first place. Any extra complexity has a real impact on the operational range.

      Rich

  3. Yeah that was ironical. by mfh · · Score: 4, Funny
    Rumour has it that a certain data center will be sued shortly for creating a hostile work environment. There's a few ways to slice this one:
    • employees will strongly dislike geeks from Slashdot following them around with RFID readers
    • employees will strongly dislike nosy reporters trying to get stupid interviews about what it felt like to have an RFID tag implanted (ie: "So what did it feel like when the cold steel of that needle intersected your unwilling arm, ma'am?"
    • employees will detest their weekly security update shots, along with subsequent track marks


    And then there is the whole magic marker circumvention method that is soon to be discovered (possibly within this thread).

    Oh wait...

    FTA: Ironically, the extra security sought may be offset by a recent discovery of Jonathan Westhues, where the security researcher showed the VeriChip can be skimmed and cloned, duplicating an implant's authentication.

    Yeah... I can't wait for the Diebold spin on this story.
    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Yeah that was ironical. by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Funny
      • Employees were fed up of being charged for an extra 'phantom' tube of tomato puree every time they went grocery shopping
      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
  4. Hey, doesn't anyone remember... by martinultima · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Back in the good old days, we used to just use duct tape and superglue to keep people from messing with our machines! (And I guess OpenBSD doesn't hurt either... ;-)

    --
    Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
  5. I think I'll prestate the sentiments of Slashdot. by captnitro · · Score: 4, Funny

    Aw, hell no.

  6. I especially like... by Statecraftsman · · Score: 4, Insightful
    the part about the VeriChip being sucsceptible to scanning and cloning.

    At least, it doesn't need to be cut out to be used by a sufficiently motivated attacker.

    1. Re:I especially like... by Martin+Blank · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is why I keep pressing my employer to not adopt RFID badges, and keep either the magnetic swipes or move to 2D barcodes. I have an inherent distrust of anything wireless, which is why I still have cables running from my mouse and keyboard, refuse to use Bluetooth, and use wireless only when I have to and even then almost exclusively in Linux (though with WPA/WPA2 and a nice, long, random shared key, it's not so bad). My current record in a lab for cracking 128-bit WEP is about 14 minutes, start to finish.

      Paranoid? Yeah, a bit. But then I've never had to worry much about someone intercepting my phone calls or passwords over the air.

      On the main topic, if no one is going to be fired for refusing, but part of their job is working on equipment in the datacenter, what happens?

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    2. Re:I especially like... by broller · · Score: 5, Funny

      So are you entering passwords or making phone calls with your mouse? I wasn't clear on that point.

    3. Re:I especially like... by plover · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The difference between mag stripe cards and RFID chips is that mag stripe cards cannot be read remotely. Your door access card is fairly safe, as long as you don't allow it to leave your possesion and don't run it through "strange" readers.

      Regardless of manufacturer's claims of "short ranges", hackers have successfully read RFID tags at distances of up to 69 feet. That means a van stopped near the office building's door could pick up a card being energized by the door's reader.

      Smartcards are definitely the route to take for "difficulty in cloning."

      --
      John
  7. does not require the microchips be implanted by still_sick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Mmmm-hmmm...

    They won't require you to implant the chip to keep your job. But how long can you keep your job if you can't access the datacenter?

    --
    ...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
    1. Re: does not require the microchips be implanted by slashname3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      They won't require you to implant the chip to keep your job. But how long can you keep your job if you can't access the datacenter?

      Depends on how good you are at hacking the datacenters firewall so you can get in to do your work.

    2. Re: does not require the microchips be implanted by jambarama · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah so everyone gives in and gets injected. What happens when someone LOSES their job? Surgery to remove the RFID chip? Reimplant everyone else with a new chip? It just doesn't seem workable.

    3. Re: does not require the microchips be implanted by eurleif · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would assume each chip is given a unique ID. When an employee quits/is fired, the ID is removed from the scanner's list of people to let in.

  8. Maybe they're right by HeavensBlade23 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't this what the Christians have been saying was going to happen for the past 20 years now? Of course, it's not the governing that's forcing the chips on people, but it's only a matter of time.

    1. Re:Maybe they're right by Drachemorder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, sorta; one idea is that the mark of the beast could be an implantable device. But to qualify as the mark of the beast it would need to be in the right hand or forehead, you'd have to have one to be able to buy or sell anything, and you'd have to sell your soul to the devil when you accepted it.

    2. Re:Maybe they're right by symbolset · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's a Visa card?

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:Maybe they're right by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What makes you think there has to be some sort of distinction between a company or coroporation, and a modern government?

      What's the difference, really? A government is a corporation of a sort: there to make money and power while giving the perception (as much as possible) of viable services. If the shit hits the fan on a global or national scale, there will be many corporations with resources which the government doesn't have. Really, the main distinction is that the government has guns - and there are many corporations which have quite a few of those.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  9. Well, it's Slashdot by 1310nm · · Score: 5, Funny

    It might actually double the victim's bicep circumference.

  10. Did you read the story? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Informative
    Shouldn't be legal to require this...

    The story reads that it's not required to maintain employment. But, then again, most jobs in the US are "at will" anyway...

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:Did you read the story? by CrazyDuke · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is why unemployment laws allow people to quit and still claim unemployment if the conditions of their employment change, instead of if they just get layed off. Because, then no one would be laid off. The company would just make people they don't want anymore, for example, work for minimum wage cleaning toilets for 5 hours a week, 3 am to 4 am, with no benefits.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
  11. I always knew Management worked us like dogs... by scotty1024 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But now they want to chip us like dogs too?

    What's next, kibble in the break room vending machines?

  12. Why? by cgenman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not understanding the point here. If you inject the RFID chip, you can theoretically track your users wherever they go. But you can't ensure that access isn't being granted to someone who has an RFID chip in their wallet. You are making it slightly harder to steal the data, but you're not making it any harder to clone the chip.

    What's the security benefit to injected RFID?

    BTW, this is the original article.

    1. Re:Why? by netwiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're not even really improving the security at all. Most of these types of devices get a short burst of RF at the reader which serves two purposes, one to provide raw power for the device (a la crystal radios), and one to signal the device to request it's ID. The device gets just enough power from the input signal to do a lookup and squirt back it's code just before it dies. The trick is, so long as you're willing to wait for someone to use the door, a directional antenna will pick up the conversation nicely. Once you've got a sample of the door's signal (they broadcast continuously), you can use the same directional to trigger the victim's ID unit remotely. Since normal badged users won't have the badge on them at all times, you couldn't get the code by following them in public. The RFID guy on the other hand, well, he's a different story. you could snag codes from him all day by just hanging nearby as he goes in/out of stores, Wal-Mart, etc.

      So in the end, the RFID makes things worse by imcreasing the level of access to the device itself.

    2. Re:Why? by killjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "What's the security benefit to injected RFID?"

      It probably gets the CIO a bonus. That's the way these things work in corporations. It has nothing to do with whether it's effective or not. It benefits the ruling class and you have no need to know why or how. Do it or hit the road.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    3. Re:Why? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 5, Informative

      >What's the security benefit to injected RFID?

      If your threat model is someone walking into the data center with a lost/stolen/borrowed badge then requiring them to be injected does address the threat. But then so would issuing tokens in the form factor of a ring, except for the "borrowed" token problem.

      So, if you don't know that RFID chips can be cloned, if you don't know that they transmit the same number every time they're pinged, if you don't know that they can be read remotely and cloned at leisure, and if you have contempt for your employees and are oblivious to human rights, you might come up with a requirement for injected RFID.

      I sincerely hope that whoever came up with this isn't one of my colleagues in security consulting.

    4. Re:Why? by Duhavid · · Score: 3, Funny

      You forgot about the "guy that owns this company knows the guy at the RFID tracking system company"
      angle entirely.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    5. Re:Why? by njyoder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In other words, a more casual thief who knows little to nothing about RFID. He has to know how to clone it and your average thieve doesn't know how to do that. I love it when so-called "security experts" overlook the obvious because they think that security risk asessment means assuming that they must assume all of their attackers are very sophisticated.

      Of course, being ignorant of RFID, you also didn't know that there are cryptographic forms of RFID. These don't transmit the same number every time they're pinged. So, of course, you have no idea what you're talking about. Using non-off-the-shelf and/or expensive technology which takes a great degree of sophistication to develop, you can crack after many hours of computation.

      But hey, you're the security expert, this is probably all trivial with the latest RFID cracking and cloning devices you can buy at Wal-Mart.

      Now the real question is, does VeriChip use cryptography? I know the answer, but it's clear you didn't even bother to check before making your generalizations.

    6. Re:Why? by makomk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except obviously you don't realize that RFID chips can contain a private key, and answer questions from the door other device with a signed answer. This makes it impossible to clone one of these chips without brute force hacking it, assuming it will securely keep its private key. Snooping on one of these guys won't help you at all.

      Who says you need to clone it? Just have (say) a babe in a bar next to the chipped person with a hidden device imitating the door reader, and someone at the door with a device imitating the chip, linked with mobile phones (or other communication device). Door sends challenge to chip-imitator, it's transmitted over to the real chip, which sends a correct response back. Response is returned to chip-imitator, transmitted to door, and you're in.

      Besides, it looks like these chps *might* be just simple IDs (cryptography is more expensive - needs more on-board hardware, and more power, which isn't easy since the power has to be transmitted wirelessly).

    7. Re:Why? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Door sends challenge to chip-imitator, it's transmitted over to the real chip, which sends a correct response back. Response is returned to chip-imitator, transmitted to door, and you're in.

      That wouldn't work with the passive ones. They burst, then listen. There is a small guardband, but if your induced delay is more than 40 ms or so, the system I worked with wouldn't hear the response. It is not correct to say that they are transmitting all the time. They are pulsing constantly. If the system is designed for tight security, they won't accept an answer multiple cycles later than the question was asked. Though, the system I worked with didn't care a bit about security, so everything was transmitted in the clear and the response could be delayed and the system wouldn't care in the least. But you'd still have to synchronize the response with the pulsing of the reader.

  13. Religious Objection by Shky · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could someone object on the basis of religious discrimination if they believe that RFID implants constitute the "Mark of the Beast"?

    --
    CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
    1. Re:Religious Objection by Bodysurf · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "Could someone object on the basis of religious discrimination if they believe that RFID implants constitute the "Mark of the Beast"?"

      I would imagine it would be just like the article stated: They can't/won't force you, but if you refuse, you don't get acccess to the datacenter. Just like the Mark of the Beast "... no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or name of the beast, or the number of his name."

    2. Re:Religious Objection by WasteOfAmmo · · Score: 3, Informative
      Not that I'm typically very religious or anything but:

      It seems to me that it would be a little hard to claim that this, or a good many of the other things that people have pointed too, constitutes the mark of the beast.

      1. It is in the bicep region, not the forehead or right hand;
      2. It is not a name nor the number 666
      From the book of revelations:

      13:16 He causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slave, to be given marks on their right hands, or on their foreheads;

      13:17 and that no one would be able to buy or to sell, unless he has that mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name.

      I'm not sure what edition the above is from but it is plain English and close enough for this discussion.

      13:18 Here is wisdom. He who has understanding, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. His number is six hundred sixty-six.

      On a side note: always wondered about making a program to compute all the possible combinations of the Jewish alphabet that adds up to 666 (filtering out all the nonsense ones of course). Someone must have done this somewhere already.

      Merlin.

    3. Re:Religious Objection by thehickcoder · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OT but,

      Since the book of Revelation is in the New Testament not the Old Testament, it doesn't make sense to think 666 is as a hebrew number. Instead, you should picture it as a roman numeral, in which case it is the roman equivalent if 54321 (500+100+50+10+5+1) or DCLXVI.

    4. Re:Religious Objection by Drachemorder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you think about it, Satan wouldn't have any need to be subtle about it. People will know it matches up with Revelation. They simply won't care because they don't believe the prophecy in the first place --- and perhaps they'll be so hostile to the idea of God that they'll gladly take a mark that shows that hostility. There's no need at all for the meaning to be obfuscated.

    5. Re:Religious Objection by phauxfinnish · · Score: 2, Informative

      On a side note: always wondered about making a program to compute all the possible combinations of the Jewish alphabet that adds up to 666 (filtering out all the nonsense ones of course). Someone must have done this somewhere already.

      Why the Jewish alphabet? The Revelation was written in Greek.

    6. Re:Religious Objection by phauxfinnish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sorry, but I have to call bullshit on the barcode/666 thing. We'll let this article on Snopes take care of that.

      Contrary to popular myth, no bar code includes the number 666. This belief arose because the number six is represented by a pattern similar to that of the guard bars used to mark the beginning, middle, and end of every bar code. Since the guard bars always appear three times in a given bar code, people who mistakenly read them as sixes claimed that the pattern 6-6-6 was embedded in every bar code. However, if you look closely at the '6' in a bar code, you will see that there is a wide white bar either to the left or the right of its pattern (depending upon where within the bar code the number is positioned), which is not the case with the guard bars.

      Not only are the guard bars not used as digits, if they were they would not be proper 6's anyway. The whitespace in barcodes is not insignficant.

    7. Re:Religious Objection by bigberk · · Score: 2, Funny

      Who needs a religious grounds? I object on the basis of you being fscking insane to wanna stick me with a computer chip. You nutcase... can I keep working here without being poked? No, alright fsck you i'm outta here

    8. Re:Religious Objection by extra+the+woos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a Christian so here's my input.

      This isn't the same as the mark of the beast, however it DOES prove that indeed there is no new idea under the sun :)

      Anyway, I don't think the mark of the beast is something physical (i mean how could they control your thoughts right)... Instead I believe it means that it is in their minds (what they think) and in their hands (what they do, their actions)...

      So the world will think and do a certain way, after the beast... my input lol

      Still, this is an interesting thing for employee rights in that it brings up a: how far will it go? question.

      --
      replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
  14. Escalation by Spazmania · · Score: 4, Funny

    So much for Evil Guy yanking out an eye or cutting off a hand so that he can fake access. Now he has to take the whole arm...

    Seriously, if he wants in that bad I'd rather he just beat me up and take my keys.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:Escalation by tftp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't worry, nobody is going to take your arm (it's too large to carry.) The chip is not that deep, so a small incision with a sharp boxcutter will allow the attacker to pull the capsule out. He only may need to explore a bit (with that knife) around the needle scar :-( Chances are very good that you will survive, especially if the attacker knows how to avoid major blood vessels, and if the knife is clean, and if you don't need that arm that much. Just choose your attackers carefully and check their medical diplomas before they do it to you.

  15. Chipped by your boss ?= chipped for life by Statecraftsman · · Score: 3, Interesting
    So when you decide to leave your emplyoyer do they take it out free of charge? I hope so.

    If not, you're likely to be tracked not just by your employer but by anyone else with an RFID scanner. There really ought to be an activator button or device that needs to be pressed or broadcasting to make such a device safe for the implanted.

  16. Re:uh, no. by netwiz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, they didn't leave it out, and I did read the article. My comment was a question of the logical extention of this policy. More to the point, if they're only going to allow access to RFID-enabled employees, doesn't it seem kinda necessary that either 1) you will be implanted if your responsibilities include accessing the video library, or 2) you're going to lose that responsibility. I can't see the latter being a positive career move.

  17. This will only last about as long as by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will only last about as long as the Sony rootkit-like DRM lasted. It now has public attention, and when it is pointed out that the scheme has enough security holes in it to act as a noodle strainer, the number of people who will actually allow the implant will be zero, meaning there will be no one to do any maintenance in the datacenter, and thus the rules will have to be changed.

    For less than they paid for the RFID system, they could have hired someone to log people in and out of the data center. Additionally, I question the validity of a system that restricts access to only those with an implant during disaster situations (fire, flood, and worse) where access rights and needs are rather different than in normal situations.

    Good security costs a lot of money, and you cannot replace the human element in the security chain. The RFID schemes won't prevent anyone following an authorized person into the data center, unless there is physical restrictions that would make working in the data center dangerous during emergencies. In this case, the $10/hour guard is more flexible and cheaper than the high-tech answer, and more respectful of humans in general... or at least I think so

    1. Re:This will only last about as long as by slashname3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      unless there is physical restrictions that would make working in the data center dangerous during emergencies.

      Many datacenters have mantraps installed that permit only one person in at a time to prevent drafting. For emergencies there are doors that will open allowing rapid egress of the facility bypassing the man traps normally used to leave and enter the facility.

      The security team that thought implanting an rfid tag into the employees provided an increased level of security should be fired. About the best that can be claimed for this is elimination of lost access cards.

  18. Just a marketing gimmick by cyberjessy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To me this sounds more like a marketing ploy. So that they could go to potential clients and say, "Look we are so secure and futuristic that we need embedded chips in humans to access our critical datacenter!". Client is left stunned.

    IANA American, but I hope that the goverment would do something if this was forced on the employees working in the datacenter. After all, what can this achieve which cannot be done with a retinal scan, RFID tag combo? If the criminal can pass the retinal scan, can't he also pluck the RFID from the employee and stick into his arm?

    Huh..... I would hate it if someone said they are gonna put a chip inside my body. Wait till someone gets hurt and the company gets sued for a million dollars.

    --
    Life is just a conviction.
  19. Re:this is interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm approaching two dozen RFID chips in my biceps, and let me tell you -- the chicks dig it!

  20. Heh. by soupdevil · · Score: 4, Funny

    The joke's on them. Geeks don't HAVE biceps.

  21. Re:I think I'll prestate the sentiments of Slashdo by minus_273 · · Score: 3, Funny

    " must be injected into the bicep"

    I think most slashdotters will have a problem there.

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
  22. Re:From TFA by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Although the company does not require the microchips be implanted to maintain employment, anyone without one will not be able to access the datacenter

    And anyone who requires access to the datacenter to do their job, such as operators and sysadmins, cannot DO their job unless they get the implant. And if they cannot do the job, how are they expected to maintain employment?

    I suppose the official reason for termination would be "uncooperative attitude." Certainly not "he refused to get chipped." Or maybe the company will concentrate on ways to make the employee so miserable, he just quits. Problem solved.

    --

    They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
  23. Re:From TFA by slashname3 · · Score: 4, Funny

    showed the VeriChip can be skimmed and cloned, duplicating an implant's authentication.

    To say nothing of employee's arms being taken and used to gain access. Just need to have a large plastic bags to put the body part in to keep it from leaking all over the hacker. Gives a whole new meaning to the term hacker.

    I wonder if these are the same implants they use on dogs. If they are it's no wonder they are insecure. And I don't see how this improves security much if any. It would be better to have a two man rule enforced by the access system, using two factor authentication, and have cameras monitoring the access into the cages. Securing a data center is not that difficult. It can be costly.

    One last thought, what does the company do if those implanted leave or are fired? Pay out the insurance premium for dismemberment when they remove the arm of the employee? I guess you know you are being fired when the security guard shows up at your desk with a box for your stuff and a hacksaw to revoke your access.

  24. Why not biometrics? by yorktown · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder why the company doesn't use a biometric entry system that uses fingerprints or retinal scans for security? People are less likely to object to thumbprint scan than minor surgery. And it's probably more secure, given that RFID can be cloned.

  25. I'm probably going to get modded as a troll, but.. by damneinstien · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It now has public attention

    I don't think we can call this public attention. Seriously, if our attention actually mattered in changing any policy, don't you think Microsoft would have been extinct by now and that DRM and other things like [insert what Slashdot users think is evil here] would be under public scrutiny? The cliched Joe Sixpack will probably never hear of this; heck, I don't think Joe Sixpack knows what RFID is.

  26. Re:From TFA by TykeClone · · Score: 2, Insightful
    One last thought, what does the company do if those implanted leave or are fired?

    Maybe revoke the authorization for that particular RFID device?

    --
    A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
  27. Typo by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Funny

    That was supposed to read, FTA: Ironically, the extra security sought may be offset by a recent discovery of Captain Obvious, where the security researcher showed the VeriChip can be skimmed and cloned, duplicating an implant's authentication.

    Seriously, which genius thought putting a remotely readable barcode in an employees arm was ever going to be secure? Must the IT world really repeat the mistakes of the 80's garage door opener industry??

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  28. Sounds like a publicity ploy by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We all know that this won't increase security, but now this surveillance company can use this in all their advertising and PR. "Sure, you can go with the other company but they arent half as serious as we are. We put bloody implants into our employess! That's serious!"

    Its harmless except for Joe and Jane Datacenter who have to go in for some minor surgery on the weekend to keep their jobs. I hope this "Golden Casino" mentality stops right here after these people get exposed for the dumbasses that they are. Hell, even in the article they did not know the weaknesses of RFID authentication.

    I woulndt doubt if this was 100% publicity stunt. I wonder how many people even have to access the datacenter. Depending on the company size it could just be one or two people. Of course all the executives, security, etc will have the old keycards that will work just fine.

  29. Re:Didn't you just post this? by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did you check the article IDs? Each article admitted to /. is required to have an attached ID.

  30. Re:uh, no. by SagSaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Altho, if you're in a right-to-work state, I can't see why they can't force this on workers. If you agree to it in a contract, well, you had your opportunity to decide against it.

    IANAL, but "right-to-work" only means that a state's employment laws don't allow an employer to require that some/all employee's join the union. Even in a right-to-work state, a contract doesn't let an employer off the hook for unsafe working conditions.

    --
    Come test your mettle in the world of Alter Aeon!
  31. Re:Spell Check? by uncoveror · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It does not surprise me at all that this is in Cincinnati, which has a horrible anti-worker culture. Employees are considered far less valuable than office fixtures, pay is below the national average in all industries, and flexible time is a foreign concept. Most employers there resent the emancipation proclaimation. Without it, they wouldn't have to pay the drones at all. This attitude has even spilled over to the sports teams, who have lost a lot more often than they have won over the years due to skinflint ownership.

    --
    The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
  32. Re:uh, no. by netwiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Okay, but what's the metric here? "Unsafeness?" How "unsafe" is getting an RFID implant? Is it then safe to assume that if something was sufficiently risk-free, that a potential employer could get away with making the employee submit to their wishes? How far might that go? And most importantly, who's deciding what's unsafe, and where's their money come from?

  33. Re:Don't panic by Somegeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think the CIA is going to want thier agents permanantly broacasting a message that says 'hey I work for the CIA' to anybody that has the desire and technology to listen.

    --
    And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
  34. Re:From TFA by YGingras · · Score: 4, Funny

    And anyone who requires access to the datacenter to do their job, such as operators and sysadmins, cannot DO their job unless they get the implant. And if they cannot do the job, how are they expected to maintain employment?

    They have no problem to do their job without physical access, they installed telnet on all the servers.

  35. Re:uh, no. by timeOday · · Score: 4, Funny
    Because according to the story, it's not required to maintain employment.
    Of course it isn't... although we do appreciate good team players. And none of our other employees seem to mind. And frankly we're a little insulted by the implicit accusation that we'd ever abuse this power. It's not like you have something to hide... do you? Well, anyways, it's not a requirement, so here's the key to your new office. Go ahead and move the brooms and mops over to one side.
  36. Wait, isn't this worse security? by Rakishi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ironically, the extra security sought may be offset by a recent discovery of Jonathan Westhues, where the security researcher showed the VeriChip can be skimmed and cloned, duplicating an implant's authentication. When contacted, those at CityWatcher were unaware of the chip's security issue, according to the spychips.com release.

    So before I needed to get close to an object (whatever had the rfid tag) which under normal circumstances an employee would not be carried around (say they were going home or something) or could have it in a reader blocking case. Now, I simply need to get close to an employ anywhere at any time to copy their data.

    Fucking brilliant, now I can steal their tag without anyone ever knowing, whereas before they'd know it was gone in a reasonable amount of time (I'd have to steal the physical object most likely).

  37. Don't Give In by Mr+Bubble · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is way over the line and a dangerous precedent. The employees at this company must refuse and they must take this to court. If they acquiesce, it will establish a precedent and other companies will see that people are willing to allow corporations to do this shit and it will spread. Once it's common in corporate security environments, the government will start requiring it. This is bad news. The company doesn't own my body. They can stick the tag up their ass.

    --
    "The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
  38. Big Brother by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...and the Comrades marched rank and file into their working facility, while the Big Brother telescreen carefully scanned each implanted chip...

    It's a video surveillance company. You work in the data center, you become Big Brother.

    1. Re:Big Brother by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's a video surveillance company. You work in the data center, you become Big Brother.

      Remember what our hero did for a living in Nineteen Eighty-Four? He worked at the Ministry of Truth, editing old news articles and throwing inconvenient facts about the past down the memory hole.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  39. It's the End of the World by dawhippersnapper · · Score: 2, Funny

    As we know it!

    I feel fine.

    --
    Freedom is fragile and must be protected. To sacrifice it, even as a temporary measure, is to betray it.
  40. Honestly .... by taniwha · · Score: 4, Funny
    evil guys just have to get more inventive

    Many years ago I found myself in a turf war with the 'operators' who looked after our mainframe .... in their view system programmers weren't allowed to touch the hardware ... anyway as a response we instituted a physical penetration analysis of the machine room .... the number of different ways in we found was in the mid teens - some involved children (or small adults) climbing thru ducts or thru the windows we gave people their printouts through, others involved finding ways in under the false floor (there were several) - but the one that took the cake was when we noticed that all the hinges on each and every door to the room was on the outside ... anyone could show up at any time and steal the doors

  41. Be well! by Kamineko · · Score: 2, Funny

    Be well, Warden William Smithers!

    - Yeah, you too!

  42. Frog in boiling water by Belseth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's the gradual change that scares me. First it starts with things that people can justify easily until it seems like a normal part of life then how can you object to something so harmless. Besides it's for our own good. How long will it be before you need an implanted chip to use a fire arm? They are already pushing for chip activated pistols that would need a ring or wristband to be used. Next step would be implants. Who could object? How long before drivers licenses require inplant chips? No time soon but eventually. Indentity thieft may make people even demand it. Remember driving isn't a right. You want to do it you abide by the rules. How about credit cards? Banks loosing money to thieft may start pushing for chips to combat thieves. You want a credit card you get a chip. May be not for fifty years but I think such things are the future. DNA identity systems may make the credit card version unnessaccary but then we are constantly having our DNA checked. A job can require DNA scanners for identification but what is to stop the same machines from checking for genetic desease? Suddenly to keep health costs down companies start laying off high risk employees. All such systems are dangerous and will be abused. The real reason is never for your benefit and in the end will take away our rights.

    1. Re:Frog in boiling water by satcomdaddy1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Taking the "frog in water" tack a step further, let's assume that the RFID chip is currently the same size as the one I just put in my dog. (About the size of a grain of rice, they tell me.) This is probably far too large/intrusive to put in the hand(for Revelations to come to fruition). With the advent on nanotechnology, there is no doubt that these can be made not only smaller in the future, but they also can be made of a 'non-rejectable' material so that the body wouldn't force it out thru the skin. Now let's take it out of the bicep, which has relatively little range of movement. If it were restricted to the upper arm, the reader/receiver would have to be at a certain height, relative to the "average" bicep height. This wouldn't last for long. It needs to be given a more full range of motion, so that employers/sellers/buyers/governments could put the receiver anywhere. What's a place on the body with a great range of motion, could reach either side of a door, capable of going high/low/everywhere? The hand, you say? What a novel concept! This is not a great leap to tie the necessity of having a chip implanted for work to requiring permanent identification for the conduct of everyday life, and as a side note, coming close enough to a 2000 year old prophecy(that I believe, BTW) to allow 'him who has understanding' to 'reckon'.

    2. Re:Frog in boiling water by Eminence · · Score: 2, Interesting
      BTW, this gradual change did start with the need to prove someone's identity - with the advent of transportation people venturing outside their village needed to be identified by people other than their family and neighbors. This is the reason for paper documents which now more and more take the shape of a plastic card.

      It seems that a reliable method of establishing someone's identity is indeed necessary for a modern society to function. The problem is how to achieve this goal while limiting the probability of all the Orwellian scenarios occurring. So far on sites like /. I've heard mostly outcry for RFID chips, which is understandable, outcry about biometrics (like the mass-fingerprinting of everyone crossing the US border), which is understandable and all other kinds of outcry but no proposals of solutions.

      I would argue that the real question here is not this or that technical solution but the ethics of those operating them, not the tools but the hand that holds them. The most horrible totalitarian regimes were built without any RFIDs or nothing we consider today advanced technology. True, the more advanced the technology the more damage can be done with them - that's why we should worry more whether as civilization we are becoming more ethically mature with time at least as fast as we are more technologically capable.

  43. Re:"The Mark"... by teknickle · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Implants aren't anything new. This is just a documented case of RFID and forced human adoption.

    I started to track some of this a few years ago. I lost a lot of the paper articles, but maintained a bunch of html links (many became dead links for one reason or another).

    We have been monitored a long time and for many different reasons. The public is mostly ignorant, AS THEY SHOULD BE. Could someone explain to me why we would want everyone to know that our governments have monitoring in place? It isn't something that could ever openly be acknowledged. Kind of like not letting Germans know that enigma was broken during WWII (good thing we got ahold of one of the machines)

    I am not much of a Conspiracy Theorist (at least now anyway). I realize that it is necessary for a global society in the state that we are in to monitor and track. There is extreme good that can come of it, and extreme evil.

    But I digress. I don't think that this instance is a notable trend towards NWO. I am MORE CONCERNED about the recent mass hiring of IT by the FBI to help develop the centralized database tracking system as part of the new national ID program. Ok, NOW you can be worried.

  44. I remember when Asbestos was just good insulation by GoMMiX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now people are required to inject glass capsules into their arms to enter a facility?

    Now we know asbestos kills.

    What will be said of placing RFID tags into our bodies 50 years from now.

    Some risks are worth taking, there is no question. For me, this is not one of them.

  45. Biceps? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Obviously don't want geeks. No self respecting geek would have biceps!

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Biceps? by TheWingThing · · Score: 2, Funny

      They are injecting into the right hand, you fool. Not the left hand.

    2. Re:Biceps? by MsGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

      13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


      The bicep is close enough to this to give me pause. I would *never* consent to anything like that. I am not necessarily a believer, but I'm not going to take any chances.

      Besides, I don't believe in recreational surgery.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  46. Paranoid? by runlvl0 · · Score: 4, Funny
    I have an inherent distrust of anything wireless, which is why I still have cables running from my mouse and keyboard, refuse to use Bluetooth, and use wireless only when I have to and even then almost exclusively in Linux (though with WPA/WPA2 and a nice, long, random shared key, it's not so bad). My current record in a lab for cracking 128-bit WEP is about 14 minutes, start to finish. Paranoid?


    Paranoid? Not until you do all of your computing inside a Faraday cage. Until then, you're just a TEMPEST in a teapot.
    --

    Carthago delenda est!
  47. Some use crypto; VeriChip,which doesnt,was cracked by njyoder · · Score: 2, Informative

    VeriChip has been cracked. That's only because it didn't use cryptography. JHU researchers have cracked the Exxon Mobil Speedpass [research link] cryptographic RFID devices using brute force. It took 15 mintes per key, but this required 16 $200 FPGAs ($3200) working in parallel.

    Ignoring the time taken to reverse engineer the protocol, it also requires extra equipment to do the analysis for the actual reverse engineering. To my knowledge, no code has been published publically.

    At this point in time, it seems that cryptographic RFID devices, despite being cryptographically weak, are pretty secure from a practical standpoint due to a level of sophistication require to execute attacks currently.

    Plus I must wonder a) how close you have to be to read/activate VeriChip devices and b) if the readers are inside of a faraday cage when they enter the facility. At the very least, this will remove the possiblity of using lost keys or ones that were left lying around unattended.

  48. Re:I remember when Asbestos was just good insulati by GoMMiX · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am not confused.

    My reference to asbestos, once used as insulation in homes/buildings, was to note the now well known effects of cancer caused by asbestos.

    Perhaps in light of this information, my previous post will seem more complete.

  49. Sounds like an opportunity by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If most of the employers in a town suck, you can do quite well by being the one place that doesn't. Grab the 20-percenters from every other IT outfit in town.

    I did a bunch of interviews to pick out a developer for a customer of mine in Denver once. We weren't offering a whole lot of money, but just the fact that we were doing something moderately interesting attracted an amazing level of quality among the applicants I saw.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  50. Interresting Question by aepervius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I went to their web site and many time they repeat the word "secure". Now granted this could be marketing bunk destined to pointy haired boss, but a passive RFID tag without private key cannot be qualified as secure even remotely. So I will stand on a leg and state that the GP is wrong and the Parent post is right, you cannot so easily copy the tag.
    Veri Chip
    Veri Guard Brochure


    What is quite frightening is that they purport on site tracking up to 15 foot (5 meter!). This is WAAAY beyond the distance the RFID-CHip-are-ok-sleep-safely-it-won't-be-abused-p eople purport is short. For me 1 foot is short. With 5 meters/15 feet readability, then you can REALLY immagine implementing a reader everywhere and fully track a population (in a firm/company/city/country).

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  51. VERY FISHY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    i saw some user comments about this same issue on another site...he brings up great points:
    Did anyone read the source material? The only evidence comes from a press release of SpyChips.com, an anti-RFID group. Their source? A network administrator at CityWatcher.com. Not exactly stellar reporting, i.e. confirmation of sources. Pay close attention to the list of recommended books at the end of the press release. The last one is ?The Spychips Threat: Why Christians Should Resist RFID and Electronic Surveillance?. In other words, SpyChips.com is a front for people who think RFID is the mark of the beast.
    this makes perfect sense...a group of paranoid radicals fabricating some story about a surveillence company (citywatch.com) to get thousands of people angry enough to shut them down for something they didn't do
  52. Maybe not such a milestone by jc42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is this the first time civilians have been required to do thing type of thing?

    This may not be exactly the same thing, but it's somewhat of a precedent: A few years ago, after a mammogram, my wife had a biopsy to check out something "suspicious". It turned out to be nothing important, though.

    Some time later, she had another x-ray at a different place, and she saw that the image had a visible object at the site of the biopsy. She was told that it was a small piece of plastic left behind during the biopsy procedure, and that this was a fairly common thing. Sort of a "We were here" tag.

    Whether it's an RFID chip we don't know. But at least some medical people are already implanting small "innocuous" things without mentioning it to the patient. And there have been stories of medical uses of RFID chips to help avoid the common problem of misidentifying a patient.

    It's easy to put such things together. If you've had any "penetrative" medical work done in the past few years, there's a good chance that you're carrying an RFID chip now.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    1. Re:Maybe not such a milestone by jc42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      WTF? Who moderated this "troll"?

      I almost didn't read it when I noticed the -1.

      Maybe the meta-mods will catch it, or maybe not.

      Actually, using a second breast as a control for the other may not be all that great an idea. Usually they are slightly different in size and shape, as are most men's testes. And both breasts get exposed to anything in the blood stream.

      What you obviously want is a second woman who is a match for the first in as many ways as possible. Then you compare all four breasts.

      Lessee what sort of mod this gets ...

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  53. Re:increased risk to employees by slashname3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reason they would take the whole arm is that it would probably be difficult to dig around in the arm to find the implant. Much quicker to just use a hacksaw and take the arm. Plus they might damage the RFID chip while trying to extract it.

    The whole idea is about as silly as it can be. While it sounds hi-tech and probably would impress most managers it does nothing NOTHING to improve security.

    Although it might be good to use as a method to tag point haired bosses so we can track their movement through the various companies during their careers.

  54. Re:"The Mark"... by Thing+1 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    We have been monitored a long time and for many different reasons. The public is mostly ignorant, AS THEY SHOULD BE. Could someone explain to me why we would want everyone to know that our governments have monitoring in place? It isn't something that could ever openly be acknowledged.

    Everyone should know so that they can act appropriately. For instance, what's the point in voting when Diebold will just hand the election to the highest bidder?

    The monitoring should go both ways. Elected officials should be monitored 24/7, audio and video, and these feeds should be made available to the public for their amusement and also to ensure that we know when they're talking to Diebold, or Enron, or Halliburton, ad nauseum. This would go a long way towards eliminating corruption--which is of course why they'll never go for it.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  55. Re:In Soviet Russia by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Funny

    On Endemol's TV, you watch Big Brother!

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  56. Re:From TFA by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A VHS tape is 7.375 inches long x 4.0625 inches wide x 1 inch thick. Each tape can hold up to 36 hours of footage on a special security time-lapse VCR. Let's be conservative and say that you'll run the cameras into a quad split, enabling you to record four cameras per tape. That means you need two tapes to store 36 hours of footage from eight cameras.
    Sorry, but most of the images from those tapes run through time-lapse vcrs don't stand up in court. Heck, they aren't even useful enough to identify the SEX of the person in many cases, the image quality is so poor. They're the absolute crap. Poor resolution, and no audio, and even with image enhancement you can't tell squat. Running the cameras on quad split, as yu call it, is worse - the image resolution is only 160x120. Time-lapse that, and you're REALLY screwed.

    I know because I spent 2 years developing a replacement for them to be marketed locally - DVRs that record up to 64 channels of live audio and video at up to 30 fps. And those give you pictures, unenhanced, that the cops CAN use. I was at a customers' on Friday - someone had stolen a mirror from a car in the parking lot. So, thanks to continuous (not time-lapse) coverage, he had the thiefs face, his cars make and model and color (a lot of those time-lapses are monochrome), etc. So, hit the print button and there's your guy. MUCH better.

    Even in 2-hour mode, with no time-lapse, a VCR isn't going to give you the same 705x480 recording from 1 camera, never mind 8, 16, 32, or 64, and it won't be nearly as searchable.

    So, to do something remotely equivalent to a DVR for 8 camersa would require 12 tapes per day x 8 (1 per camera) x 30 days per month - in just 1 month you will have gone through 288 tapes. Now, instead of 8 cameras, make it 64. 2,304 tapes per month, plus you have to manually load, unload, label, log, and manually walk them to storage. If it takes 2 minutes to do each one, this will require 2 people, 24 hours a day (because 1 person, at 2 minutes per, would need a minimum of 128 minutes an hour, not counting pee and lunch breaks). The tapes can't be the dollar-store variety either, so even at $2/tape, your tape budget alone is $4,608, plus the cost of 2 employees x 3 shifts x 7 days ... even at minimum wage, they would be more expensive than just buying a couple of terrabyes of cheap raid (6 x 300 gig == 1 month storage for 64 cameras at 25 fps, for under a grand.)

    Plus, you can't just stack these tapes one on top of the other to the ceiling - you have to shelve them. That takes space, and climate control. 1 year's worth of tapes (27,648 tapes) takes up a LOT of room, compared to 72 hard disks, that can all fit in a single fireproof storage cabinet.

    And if you want to be doubly secure, you can mirror the hd offsite every day and still be well within your budget. A days recordings fit in your pocket on a single hd, or you can even send them over the net in real time for critical stuff. Try doing that with tape.

  57. Re:From TFA by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And anyone who requires access to the datacenter to do their job, such as operators and sysadmins, cannot DO their job unless they get the implant. And if they cannot do the job, how are they expected to maintain employment?

    I'm sure the company has other jobs which the people are qualified for and do not involve access to the datacenter. Only two employees got the chip, so surely there are available job positions which don't involve getting chipped.

    I suppose the official reason for termination would be "uncooperative attitude." Certainly not "he refused to get chipped." Or maybe the company will concentrate on ways to make the employee so miserable, he just quits. Problem solved.

    I doubt it. In either of those two situations the company would likely be responsible for paying unemployment compensation and/or severance pay. It seems like a much better solution for the company to just give the person an alternative job.

    Sure, the person might wind up getting passed over for the next promotion, but if the company is smart that's about the extent of it.

  58. Re:What about the transhumanists? by CptNerd · · Score: 2, Funny


    And you think so 3-dimensional. I'll take a hypercube...


    You gotta be careful with those. You think refolding a roadmap is tricky...

    I refolded my hypercube in the wrong order and ended up in Poughkeepsie in 1878. That was embarrassing.

    --
    By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes