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Dell starting to sell Computers with Linux

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the penguin-inside dept.

I_am_Rambi writes "Dell is starting to sell PCs with RHEL WS. The trio of workstations come with either a P4, or Xeons (Dual capable). Prices range from $759 to $1263 (after rebates). Linux Desktops has more information." From the article: "Dell spokesperson Jeremy Bolen said the company basically defines a workstation as a heavy-duty desktop or notebook that is certified to work with various ISVs applications, including those for computer-aided design, video editing, modeling software for the gas and oil industry and other similar applications. Bolen argues that companies will purchase workstations for those specific jobs versus buying them as desktops for so-called knowledge workers, who spend time emailing, word processing and creating PowerPoint presentations. "

82 comments

  1. Yes, but... by MarkByers · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...does it run Windows?

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:Yes, but... by the-amazing-blob · · Score: 2, Funny

      Only if you pay extra, and sell your soul.

    2. Re:Yes, but... by Josiah_Bradley · · Score: 0

      will it ever use an AMD cpu.

    3. Re:Yes, but... by martinultima · · Score: 1

      No, the question is, does it run OpenBSD?

      --
      Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
    4. Re:Yes, but... by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So... Email and Powerpoint junkies are "Knowledge Workers", while workers with actual knowledge, such as Petroleum Engineers are ... in Dell-speak?

      Guess that despite my complaints to the contrary, my last job was just overrun with Knowledge Workers.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    5. Re:Yes, but... by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 1

      Considering it's Dell, shouldn't we be asking "Yes, but does it run AMD?"

    6. Re:Yes, but... by BobPaul · · Score: 1

      "Yes, but does it run AMD?"

      I think your syntax is a little off... ;)

    7. Re:Yes, but... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I think you read too far in between the lines.

      "Knowledge Workers" need the computers to find Knowledge. They often use it for waisting time and such.

      Workstations are for people who have to get work done using the knowledge they already posses. The need for emailing, word processing and playing with powerpoint isn't a high priority to those smart enough to be constructive ;}

    8. Re:Yes, but... by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Does it run Windows? Who cares! Imagine a Beowulf cluster of Dells!

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    9. Re:Yes, but... by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      Actually, last I checked, it cost *more* to buy a PC from Dell with Linux. I hope that's changed at least.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
  2. Yeah! by 2.7182 · · Score: 1

    That is great, but didnt they do that in 1999 ? Also I love linux, but my Olympus c3030 won't work with it.

    1. Re:Yeah! by davecarlotub · · Score: 1

      Also I love linux, but my Olympus c3030 won't work with it.

      It's on the list of gphoto2 supported cameras.

    2. Re:Yeah! by 2.7182 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well that may be, but even my system administrator eventually gave up.

    3. Re:Yeah! by Boogaroo · · Score: 1

      Weird. For the Olympus C5050 it was just a single line mounting the USB device as a drive and it worked great.

      Used to have a roommate with the C3030(and 2020 before it) that convinced me to go for it.

    4. Re:Yeah! by mukund · · Score: 1

      I owned a C3030Z and it worked great for me with Gphoto2. Keep trying until it works. I have used both USB and RS-232 to connect to it and both methods have worked. One of my colleagues took it and never returned it, hence the "owned" bit.

      LANG=C gphoto2 --port "usb:" --camera "Olympus C-3030Z" --folder "/DCIM/100OLYMP" --get-all-files

      --
      Banu
    5. Re:Yeah! by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      I have a C3030Z and was able to get it working with gphoto2 back in Fall 2000ish when I got one as a birthday gift.

      The process was a bit convoluted though, I eventually moved to using a Smartmedia to CF adapter because it was MUCH faster than the Olympus USB link under Linux or Windows. I'm sure things have improved in the nearly six years since support for that camera was added.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:Yeah! by Eravnrekaree · · Score: 1

      Doesn't Linux have some kind of a driver API to support cameras? Does Gphoto2 contain camera support or use external drivers via an API. Building in support rather than keeping the driver and app seperate is a bad idea since it makes it more difficult to use other apps with the camera.

  3. again by GenKreton · · Score: 4, Informative

    We've seen this many times over the past few years. Dell has always sold linux on some machines. Sometimes if you dug enugh you could find it on workstations. Just last year this happened (again) and it was much higher priced than the exact same machine selling windows. I wonder if they will put some serious push behind it this time and make an effort ot pss the savings on (and yes I know other software vendors pay to have their products on the windows machines too...but still.).

    1. Re:again by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, Dell workstations generally offer a direct-choice between Windows and RHEL Linux, and the prices are exactly the same (except for the fact that RHEL subscriptions are more expensive than Windows).

      Dell also offers most of their desktop machines as "bare" (FreeDOS). These are the machines that are "buried" on the website. Sometimes these machines are cheaper than the Windows versions, sometimes the same, sometimes more expensive. Apparently this is because vendors like Real pay Dell to bundle their software.

      Anyone who thinks the price disparity is due to MS kickbacks is on crack, because such a practice is totally outlawed by the antitrust decree.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    2. Re:again by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      As far as Microsoft is concerned, antitrust law is a paper tiger.

      --
      What?
    3. Re:again by robthebob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's short sighted to claim immediately that there are *any* savings to pass on at all. It's not as though these machines magically appear with an OS on once it's been decided. From my experience in the industry (and this in a much smaller company than Dell even), you will require a very efficient scheme for installing the OS to the machines remotely. These kinds of systems don't just appear overnight - they need planning, development and exectution. Critically, they will need to evolve over a period of time to approach the efficiency of those that have been in use for years and which are thoroughly tested and bug-free.

    4. Re:again by twistedcubic · · Score: 1


      Anyone who thinks the price disparity is due to MS kickbacks is on crack, because such a practice is totally outlawed by the antitrust decree.

      Yeah, this lady I was talking to said her son was murdered, but I told her that she must be mistaken, because murder is illegal.

  4. Is it that time of year again? by The+evil+non-flying · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It seems every once in a while, like when contracts with Microsoft expire, we hear Dell is selling Linux computers and then as soon as the stories appear the computers end up buried in some hard to find place on their website.

    1. Re:Is it that time of year again? by canuck57 · · Score: 1

      It seems every once in a while, like when contracts with Microsoft expire, we hear Dell is selling Linux computers and then as soon as the stories appear the computers end up buried in some hard to find place on their website.

      Very true. No one takes Dell systems with Linux seriously, your better off with Sun hardware that runs Linux, cheaper and faster too as Sun uses AMD X2 processors that blow away anything Dell has.

  5. bit pricey by madnuke · · Score: 1

    You can run linux on a toaster!, those prices are outrageous for a pc I would just use an old machine for linux, I picked up an old IBM laptop for nothing and it runs linux fine on 192 mb of ram and a pentium 3 400 mhz.

    1. Re:bit pricey by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I have P2 266 with 256 megs of ram. Linux runs, but it chugs along a little slowly. I run KDE which I know slows it down, but also gives me a lot of stuff i'm going to run anyway, like Kopete and Amarok. If I'm going to load the KDE modules, I might as well use KDE for the desktop. I'm also running mandriva 2006, which makes things slower than using an older distro, yet I shy away from using older distros because things have started to run much smooter in the last few years.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:bit pricey by jurt1235 · · Score: 1

      I do not know what desktop you run, and which applications, but I can tell you that you might feel happier with more memory. CPU power has not been a big issue for most for years now.

      KDE 3.3, eclipse,kmail,,tomcat, mysql database, OpenOffice, Firefox at the same time open with 256 was slightly impossible (-:

      --

      My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
    3. Re:bit pricey by markdavis · · Score: 1

      I was going to make the same suggestion. Although it will run fine with 256MB, 512MB would be far better if you are going to use a current distro, like Mandriva 2006.0 + KDE + Lots of higher powered (bigger) applications

    4. Re:bit pricey by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      I picked up an old IBM laptop for nothing and it runs linux fine on 192 mb of ram and a pentium 3 400 mhz.

      That's a really facinating story, but most people who buy workstations are looking for computational machines and don't care about your old crap.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    5. Re:bit pricey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old laptop celeron 300Mhz with 160mb ram here as my main system! It's actually flying with vectorlinux and xfce. 118mb free on startup, it just never hits virtual memory. Fluxbox and icewm are even better on it, but I love the gperfection theme under xfce. Whenever I open kdevelop I see where you are coming from. Still doesn't hit VM, but anything more will get it chugging...

    6. Re:bit pricey by martinultima · · Score: 1

      Slackware-based distros are a lot faster, by the way – my laptop (233MHz, 96MB RAM) would likely choke on Red Hat, I know my old laptop (133MHz, 80MB RAM) did. But using Ultima Linux, my own Slack-based system, even running KDE, Enlightenment, Firefox, OOo, and even an NES emulator doesn't seem to break the system. Which is a good thing. I like NES games ;-)

      --
      Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
    7. Re:bit pricey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude, go help an old lady cross a street or something, make a contribution rather than harassing people on slashdot with your cynical crap.

    8. Re:bit pricey by dextromulous · · Score: 1
      those prices are outrageous for a pc I would just use an old machine for linux, I picked up an old IBM laptop for nothing and it runs linux fine on 192 mb of ram and a pentium 3 400 mhz.
      If you don't need a dual P4 Xeon or other high end computer you obviously are not their target market, so don't worry about it. If a PIII-400 suits your needs, fine. I run Linux on a 200MHz ARM in an embedded system because that's all it need to run (more, actually,) but I do the development on a P4-3GHz notebook and it's not nearly enough. Believe it or not, there are people out there who do "need" more processing power than a PIII notebook will provide.
      --
      There are two types of people in the world: those who divide people into two types and those who don't.
    9. Re:bit pricey by solafide · · Score: 1

      Try Gentoo if you want to go faster. It's very easy to install, although a bit time-consuming, yet doesn't require much RAM to run KDE. As a matter of fact, right now with Seamonkey, apache, 6 OpenOffice documents of 6-200 pages, and postgres running in KDE it takes up 125MB RAM. It has really good community support too.

    10. Re:bit pricey by toddbu · · Score: 1
      I'm also running mandriva 2006 ... yet I shy away from using older distros because things have started to run much smooter in the last few years.

      I've been a long time Mandriva user and finally gave up after installing 2006. Sadly, Mandriva has never been able to shake the "every other release is a piece of crap" syndrome. I had high hopes that a yearly release cycle would fix things, but it didn't. I was also got really tired of trying to find an update mirror that worked. I finally called their US number and got some guy who told me that for $1,000/year that I could have access to a stable mirror. I was shocked to say the least. I love the club and had no problem paying the fee. Shouldn't my club dollars get me access to a stable mirror?

      My new distro of choice is Ubuntu. I like the whole Debian stability thing but didn't like their release methodology. We've built dependencies on newer releases of OSS (like MySQL 4.1) and didn't want to wait an indeterminite amount of time for the next release. Ubuntu seems to fill the gap between super-stable distros lile Debian and the bleeding-edge releases like Mandriva. I need to be certain that when I update my kernel that my machines won't lock up (happened on two different Mandriva releases) but I don't necessarily want to be running the 2.4 kernel either.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  6. And there's support.... by harrypelles · · Score: 2, Funny

    With it comes Dell's 3-Year On-site Economy Plan for support. This plan includes 24x7 phone technical support, online technical support, and if needed following phone-based troubleshooting, next business day on-site service.

     Heh, I know what I'm going to suggest next time the Grandma-Types ask what kind of computer they should get. Have fun, Dell...

  7. I HAVE A GREASED UP YODA DOLL SHOVED UP MY ASS! by heauxmeaux · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    I'm Chillin'

    Onski ... Chris Rock
    B Fats ... Chris Farley




    [The "I'm Chillin'" clubhouse. Two hot dancing ladies in Afros, shades, and red, white and blue outfits shake their groove things as music plays and the "I'm Chillin'" logo appears.]

    Don Pardo V/O: Live, from the Marcy Projects, it's "I'm Chillin'!"

    Singers V/O: Hip-hop hooray! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho!
    Hey! Ho! Hey! Hey!

    [B Fats dances into the room and pauses with one arm raised to herald the arrival of his smaller, thinner colleague, Onski. The two sit down on the club sofa -- but not until Onski has pulled a gun from his pants and dropped it by the door. The dancing ladies exit as the two guys, wearing shades, denim outfits and colorful headgear, address the camera.]

    Onksi: Yo, yo, yo -- what's up! Welcome to "I'm Chillin'!" I'm your host Onski, to the highest degree, to the T.O.P. Yo! It's all about ME! And sittin' by my side is my main man, the dapper rapper, the toe-tapper, the Frank Zappa, the girl in his lap-a, the wine from the Napa, and I know a brother like you shops at the Gap-a! It's B Fats! Yo, B! Yo, B! Tell 'em how you feel!

    B Fats: Yo, I'm drivin' my car, makin' lots o' dough/Knockin' suckers out like Riddick Bowe!

    Onksi: Yo, yo, yo! I hear that! I hear that! Now before I start the sh-iz-ow - before I start the sh-iz-ow - I want to say, "What's up?!" to a new sponsor. That's right! That's right! I want to say, "What's up?!" to Bitch Come Running cologne! [holds up a bottle of the product] That's right! You know, I put a little d-iz-ab behind my iz-ears and the next thing you kn-iz-ow, I'm in the middle of a house sandwich! Yo, B! Yo, B! Yo, B! I heard you like Marky Mark!

    B Fats: Naw, man, I don't like Marky Mark.

    Onksi: Yo, man, yo, yo, yo! Check this out! I heard you got "Good Vibrations" on CD!

    B Fats: No, man! Marky Mark ain't nothin' but Vanilla Ice in his drawers.

    Onksi: Yo, yo, yo -- you got that right, yo man. That kid, Marky Mark couldn't rap a gift, man! Yo, Bizee! Yo, Bizee! It's about that time!

    B Fats: Time to bust a rhyme?

    Onksi: Naw, Bizee.

    B Fats: Time for Gertrude Stein?
    [Onski gives B Fats a look. They stare at each other. B Fats just shrugs.]

    Onksi: Naw, Bizee! It's time for the Mother Joke of the Day! [makes a gesture cueing a rap beat that plays under the following:] Yo! Today's Mother Joke comes to us from Pam Brown -- Br-iz-own -- of the Horzy Pr-iz-ojects, Apartment Twelve J-iz-ay, you know the one where they found that body at. And it goes a little sumpin' like this: "Your mother's butt is so wide that when she backs up, it beeps!" Yo, Don Pardo, tell her what she wins!

    Don Pardo V/O: [dissolve to a photo of a woman wearing hair extensions] You win... hair extensions! Over a year's supply or three miles' worth, whichever comes first.

    Onksi: [dissolve back to Onksi and B Fats] Yo, tell her what else she wins!

    Don Pardo V/O: [dissolve to a photo of a stand-up comic at the Def Comedy Jam microphone - his face is blanked out with an arrow labeled "YOU!" pointing to it] You get to perform on the Def Comedy Jam! Impress your relatives! Make fun of that white guy in the audience! [rap beat out]

    Onksi: [dissolve back to Onksi and B Fats] Yo, yo, yo! Well, right now we gonna watch a world-premiere video from my man, Ice-T called "Fireman Killer" -- right? [Onski's pager, attached to his headgear, starts beeping] Ah, man! Yo, yo, yo, yo! I guess we gotta do that next w-iz-eek. You know what I'm sayin'? 'Cause right n-iz-ow, I gotta go pick up my baby's mother from her GED class. You know what I'm sayin'? She's studyin' to be a doctor! But 'member what I always

    --
    Beat 'Em and Eat 'Em
  8. 4 years ago by Kohath · · Score: 1

    Our company bought Linux machines from Dell 4 years ago with RH 7.1 on them.

    1. Re:4 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any idea if Dell priced it less than the same spec PC (hardware-wise) running Windows? Everytime I have seen this story come up, I have visited the Dell website and found that they were doing a poor job passing on the savings. It has gotten to the point I am not planning to visit Dell's website again just to check.

  9. Dupe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I saw this headline, and how it meant the widespread acceptance of Linux, in 1994, and 95, and 96, and 97, and 98, and 99, and 2000, and 01, and 02, and 03, and 04, and 05. I guess good news can't be repeated often enough.

  10. Support? by DarkNemesis618 · · Score: 1

    I think one thing that affects how Dell does Linux is simply support. If they use Windows, it's really only two versions they have to worry about supporting. There's really only Windows 2000 and Windows XP, and Windows 2000 is quickly fading from view. With Linux, Dell may put on one distribution and version, but with how many Linux distros there are, it would be hard to get enough people to support each one to fullfil the Dell warranties. Different distros require different drivers, different ways of doing things, and have different nuances that make it hard to have the one set of troubleshooting like Windows. I see nothing wrong with putting Linux on desktops but it could make things harder on Dell, and cost them more money hence lessening their profits. Just a thought...

    --
    What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?
    1. Re:Support? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Nonesense, Dell only supports the OS the machine ships with. Every OEM does the same thing. If you load Pro on a box that came with Home vendors will not support software issues, let alone 2000.

    2. Re:Support? by fosterNutrition · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As shaitand points out, Dell itself would only be responsible for supporting the distro they have shipped originally. However, you do have a point in that the diverse nature of Linux (and pretty much all open source type software) is sometimes a barrier to adoption.

      Dell may be reluctant to start shipping Linux (or at least shipping it as a regular thing) because they fear that the effort of offering a variety of distros is too much (as you point out), and simply offering one distro is probably not going to generate enough interest (read purchases) to make it viable.

      Of course, Dell's strategy of building the computers according to specs would seem to facilitate the adoption of several OSs/distros, since they don't need to have a supply of all different types constantly. The problem with this is that they still need to keep a staff with expertise on all of the different types.

      So essentially, if they only ship one distro, it's not enough variety to generate much profit, but if they ship many, it's too much effort to generate much profit. The one thing that could really speed adoption of Linux (notice I only say "speed adoption," not "enhance quality" or "be beneficial") would be if one particular distro really outshone all others and became the de facto standard, what people always meant when they said Linux. Only then would it become seriously lucrative for Dell to ship Linux.

    3. Re:Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Dell support shipped multiple machines to us with RHEL and 24" widescreens. Not one of them had the video at a widescreen resolution, let alone the monitor's native resolution. Their support personal were also unable to fix the problem. Fortunately I was. Though they are still happy to charge for this support.

    4. Re:Support? by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      I would have thought that RedHat would be responsible for configuration support on those machines. Maybe you just called the wrong number.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    5. Re:Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Dell computer with a Dell-provided operating system running a Dell LCD display would seem to be exactly Dell's responsibility. If, by some cosmic misalignment of sense, this were not the case, then Dell's responsibility would have been to direct the call to the appropriate number.

      So, either way, Dell is wrong.

      And, you are wrong.

      RedHat is not responsible for configuration on Dell's machines.

      I wouldn't expect anything less from a Microsoft supporter.

    6. Re:Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps - though they didn't indicate it should be taken to redhat - took them three days for their linux guy to be found. Apparently he gets that question a lot. Though being told that only made them look worse. At least he was cheeky enough to ask for the answer. We should have charged them for it though.

    7. Re:Support? by spitzak · · Score: 1

      Don't be a moron. Dell has no responsibility to support software it does not sell with the machine. They are selling RedHat version something-or-other. This does not mean they have to support anything else that happens to have the letters L,I,N,U, and X in it's name.

  11. Oh dear. by bod1988 · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    So, Dell == shit, and Linsux == shit. So this is Shit^Shit or Shit+Shit or what?

    1. Re:Oh dear. by JonnyKeogh · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      No, silly, it's (Shit^Shit) + (Shit^42). Come on, we all know the Dellinsux formulae.

  12. How do you find those? by AnonymousPrick · · Score: 1
    I've been shopping for machines, and the only time I've seen machines w/o Windows were the ones w/o any OS - in the server section for Small Business. I just figured I'd get one with a DVD and install Linux.

    Anyway, how do you find those burried ones?

    --
    Saturday is April 1. Slashdot will be shut down. Sorry for the inconvenience.
    1. Re:How do you find those? by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 3, Informative

      They are called "Open Source Desktops" or "n-Series" -- I see a link right on the Small Business Desktop page.

      http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.a spx/desktops_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    2. Re:How do you find those? by Trelane · · Score: 4, Informative
      Interesting. Things to note:
      1. This option is only available via the "Small and Medium Business" web page. Linux is not offered at all to consumers.
      2. No laptops will come with anything but Windows.
      3. This page is only available by clicking a separate, lower link, in a special section entitled "Dell Open Source Desktops". Clicking the top (seemingly complete) product lineups will not give you access to Linux computers--only Windows.
      4. Exception: A special link in the "Dell Precision Workstations" section (entitled "View Linux Workstations") will take you to the Linux Precision workstations. Again, clicking on the top link (which seems to indicate that it has the entire linup of Precision workstations) will not get you any Linux offerings .
      5. Clicking on the series' pictures will not show you any Linux offerings, but has the appearance that it would contain all of the series' offerings.
      6. Each series's Linux offering consists of precisely three machines.
      7. The Precision workstation series consists of six machines--three Windows (670, 470, 380); three Linux (670n, 470n, 380n). Linux content: 50%
      8. The OptiPlex workstation series consists of six machines--three Windows (GX620, GX520, 170L); three FreeDOS (GX620n, GX520n, 170Ln). Open Source content: 50%-- Linux content: 0%
      9. The Dimension desktop series consists of nine machines--six Windows (XPS 600, 9150, 5150C, 5150, 3100, 1100); three FreeDOS (5150n, 3100n, 1100n). Open Source content: 33.33%-- Linux content: 0%
      10. You'll note that only the Precision workstations come with Linux--two of the three "Open Source" desktops don't come with Linux.
      11. Additionally, FreeDOS is not even installed (note the small print around the FreeDOS description.
      12. Dell describes the Precision Linux offerings as "Dell PrecisionTM open-source n Series1 workstations deliver maximum workstation performance. Smart for businesses with proprietary software images or special Linux needs, these systems are available with factory installed Linux." (emphesis mine)
      13. Dell helpfully adds the following cheerful text on their "Open Source Desktops" page: "he open-source n Series desktops feature select popular models from the DimensionTM desktop, OptiPlexTM desktop and Dell PrecisionTM workstation lines available with a copy of the FreeDOSTM open-source operating system included in the box, ready to install. It is not a Microsoft operating system and is not qualified for Windows licensing use under any existing Microsoft Volume Licensing Program (OPEN, Enterprise, etc.) Customers interested in a Microsoft® Windows® solution should purchase a Dell desktop pre-loaded with Windows XP Professional. Select n Series systems are also available with Linux.
        In order to boot this system, you must install an operating system. A FreeDOS media kit has been provided which will allow you to boot your system once installed. Please note that many common applications will not run and/or fully function using FreeDOS, and in order to run these applications, you will need to install the appropriate operating system and/or device specific drivers. Consult FreeDos.org or your chosen operating system vendor for compatibility details." (boldface theirs; italics and sarcasm mine). No such text appears on any of the Windows pages. Indeed, Dell recommends Windows XP Professional. No similar recommendation supporting Linux exists.
      --

      --
      Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
    3. Re:How do you find those? by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      Let's summarize those 13 points: "Most people want Windows on their computers. Therefore, only buy these if you are really certain you don't want Windows."

      Is anyone here going to argue with that? Ultimately Dell doesn't care, they're just moving boxes.

      Dell recommends Windows XP Professional.

      Even "IBM Recommends Windows XP Professional". Gotta get the OEM discount.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    4. Re:How do you find those? by Trelane · · Score: 1
      Let's summarize those 13 points: "Most people want Windows on their computers. Therefore, only buy these if you are really certain you don't want Windows."
      Nice summary, but incorrect.

      The statistics above directly contradict your assertion:

      Dell also offers most of their desktop machines as "bare" (FreeDOS).

      Additionally, it was to provide background on why people find the non-Windows offerings to be "buried".

      Even "IBM Recommends Windows XP Professional". Gotta get the OEM discount.
      Indeed. I never asserted that this was unique to Dell. If you want to have a profit in the PC biz, you do what Microsoft wants. This is often diametrically opposed to doing much with Linux (at least on the desktop).
      --

      --
      Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
    5. Re:How do you find those? by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      Dell also offers most of their desktop machines as "bare" (FreeDOS).

      I don't know if that means all that much. Once they have absorbed the startup costs of "Open Source Desktops", there is not much cost in offering additional models in that configuration (especially because they are nearly identical internally).

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    6. Re:How do you find those? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No laptops will come with anything but Windows.

      From a marketing standpoint, I can understand why, when most laptops have gear that would be bleeding edge (I know, it's Dell after all) and may not even be anywhere near the Linux hardware compatibility list, if there is such a thing.

    7. Re:How do you find those? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Dell also offers most of their desktop machines as "bare" (FreeDOS).

      The word on the street is that Dell pays Microsoft per unit sold, regardless of what you get from them. So you're paying for a Windows license but not getting it.

      And since many of the Dells can't be ordered without Windows XP (I picked 3 at random, none had a FreeDOS option) you often can't even pretend you're not helping Microsoft fight legal battles against linux companies if you're buying from Dell.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re:How do you find those? by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      The word on the street is that Dell pays Microsoft per unit sold, regardless of what you get from them.

      Yeah right. I'll bet your "inside sources" are a bunch of slashdot conspiracy theory dumbasses. Microsoft has been legally prohibited from doing this since 1993.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    9. Re:How do you find those? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is also legally prohibited from bundling Internet Explorer with Windows... oh, wait...

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    10. Re:How do you find those? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Well, first he said word on the street not inside sources. But, i have heard that from different vendors since before i came to slashdot or even started playing with linux.

      You see i had a copy of windows 98SE i bought for a desktop that couldn't run it. Unfortionatly one of the application i wanted to run needed Windows 98SE so i tryed to puchase a desktop to use my OS with. I did find one or two vendors willing to sell me a desktop with freedos but there was no price reduction. The excuse given to me by differetn supplyers was that they did pay for a copy of windows on every computer that leave the door so thier audits checked out and they got a deeper discount on the software pricing. You might be wondering why some vendor would tell me stuff like this, Well it was because I tryed to use the account from the company I worked for and eventualy talked to uperlevel managment. True or not, thats the excuse I got.

      So at one time or another, you can take it as fact that the excuse for paying the same price with or without windows installed was given to customers. If it was true or not or still is what happens is something we can only guess on. This article suggests it still happens.

    11. Re:How do you find those? by empvirus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and at this point, I just get fed up with it all and build my own linux machine from the ground up.

      --
      Sometimes I comment just to hear myself typing.
    12. Re:How do you find those? by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      Interesting article. I won't deny that MS makes it difficult to have "ala carte" OSes -- the vendor pretty much has to identify a different brandname etc.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
  13. What I want to see by gooman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't care if Dell ships with Linux (any distro).
    But, I DO care that Dell makes hardware support available for at least the big distros!

    Give me supported hardware and drivers!

    Hey all you hardware vendors out there, it's 2006 already!
    I've decided this year that any manufacturer that will not at least make drivers available is behind the times and I will no longer buy from them.

    I'm tired of reverse engineered hardware support. It should not be this way anymore. I choose to vote with my $$$ and I will plainly tell any vendor why I will not choose them. No support for Linux, no support from me.

    --
    "Kittens give Morbo gas!"
    1. Re:What I want to see by babbling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Specifications are more valuable than drivers. I don't think most Linux users want support, they just want hardware that has a chance of working.

    2. Re:What I want to see by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      buy a sun or IBM workstation. Just tried on the IBM website, all workstations except power come with windows preinstalled (cannot deselect the option), adding redhat enterprise incl. 1 year support adds $300 to the total costs. The power workstations you can either buy with AIX or no OS at all, but they claim to be supported by SUSE and redhat, you'd have to buy those seperately I guess.

      lenovo doesn't mention linux as an option when selecting a laptop/pc, but after using the search function one finds the overview with checked distributions per system: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-48 NT8D.html?sitestyle=lenovo

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    3. Re:What I want to see by massysett · · Score: 1
      In that light I don't understand Dell's meager discount on the n-series desktops (that is, desktops that ship with no MS Windows and instead have free DOS.) People always say "well duh, Dell only pays $35 or so for each copy of Windows, so you can't expect much of a discount." True, but the real cost of Windows for Dell is supporting it. They know if they ship an n-series, they won't get calls about "my Roxio's not working" or "my computer crashes instantly after I turn it on" or "I keep getting a bunch of strange popups." Hell, your typical n-series buyer won't even be calling with questions like "I can't find where to plug the mouse in" like other users would.

      It seems to me there really should be a hefty discount on the n-series machines. But maybe Dell gets enough kickbacks from the shovelware vendors to more than offset the cost of Windows and the cost of supporting it.

      Those n-series desktops are a joke, and Dell support is so rotten that I can't imagine Linux support would be worth anything. But who knows, maybe enterprise support is better...

      --
      Penny - plain text accounting
  14. "knowledge workers" by KillerHamster · · Score: 1

    Is anyone else tired of hearing that term?

    By the way, this is hilarious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_worker

    1. Re:"knowledge workers" by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      No, not at all. Knowledge workers are distinct from other types of workers, such as production workers, and there is a need to distinguish them.

      For one thing, it makes it easy for management to identify them for pink slips during downsizings, since they do not tangibly, immediately contribute to the bottom line. They can always be rehired as consultants later.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  15. Well, since it's Dell... by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

    I guess they figured out how to run a bunch of Crapware on it on startup.

    Dude, stop buying Dell.

    1. Re:Well, since it's Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see a potential audience here for software that automatically removes Dell/OEM crap, like there are for spyware. ...They could call the program that does it "DellAware". /me gets shot

    2. Re:Well, since it's Dell... by after+fallout · · Score: 1

      I would love a piece of software that does this, if it would save me the hour or two (depending on if I choose to manually uninstall, or simply reformat) on every new dell box that comes across my desk at work (that is, every new box for the company).

      Neither of these is a good option, because in both instances I need to sit there and click away at the machine.

  16. Binary drivers suck. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Give me supported hardware and drivers! ... I'm tired of reverse engineered hardware support. It should not be this way anymore.

    Yes, things should not be the way they are but binary drivers are not a good deal. "Reverse engineered hardware support" is often better than the driver provided by the device maker. How can that be? Easy, the maker can only afford so many hours of programming for any device but free drivers will be brought up to spec eventually. More importantly, free drivers never go away. The equipment will be "supported" by the free software community until the hardware is no longer considered useful and beyond. A binary driver may or may not work with newer kernels. Sooner or later, you will want to more on and the device will be as useless as if you installed service pack 2. The apparently obvious solution is to release free drivers and let users decide when the device is no longer valuable. For one reason or another, this does not often happen.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Binary drivers suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy, the maker can only afford so many hours of programming for any device but free drivers will be brought up to spec eventually.

      x hours when the video card is released is worth 100x hours when the video card is 6 years old (and video cards are really the only type of hardware that matters, there's alternatives for everything else).

    2. Re:Binary drivers suck. by R.D.Olivaw · · Score: 1

      What exactly makes you think that the hardware manufacturers want to make it easy for you to use some piece of hardware indefinitely?

  17. I like Dell servers - sometimes, but.. by tuomoks · · Score: 1

    Who are they kidding ? I just bought AMD 64 X2 at the price it takes to upgrade one Dell to dual core / processor ? Actually I bought two, upgraded memory on each to 2GB, added 6800GS to both, added 300GB to one of them ( 550GB together ) and I'm still under one Dell with comparable configuration? Dell servers can be nice, got very nice deals on those but desktops/workstations? Maybe their laptop - haven't tried one for a while. I just hope to get one to run Linux ( and VMWare, whatever for virtual machines, have to use Windows sometimes ).

    1. Re:I like Dell servers - sometimes, but.. by thedletterman · · Score: 1

      I got a Dell P-III 900 Mhz laptop with 256MB of ram for free after the owner tried "upgrading" it to Windows XP. It ran like such shit, he decided to buy a new laptop instead. I wiped it, installed Ubuntu, and now I have spare laptop that works just fine.

      --
      Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
    2. Re:I like Dell servers - sometimes, but.. by gtpalm · · Score: 1

      But you can't get a lease on individual parts of a system that you build yourself ;-) You can go to dell for business leasing. It isn't terribly cheap in the long-run, but its great if you prefer to have a monthly bill, rather than a big up-front purchase (esspecially if you need a lot of machines, or have few liquid assets)

  18. Same with a car by voxel · · Score: 1

    My 1994 Honda civic purchased for $2,000 runs fine. Gets me to work and back reliably.

    My other car, 2005 BMW M3 is a hell of alot more fun though.

    --
    Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
  19. (Open and close eyes rhythmically to simulate) by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

    Whew! Glad there's no tag on Slashdot.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  20. Re: Other companies selling preinstalled Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.addonshop.com/ http://www.emperorlinux.com/ http://www.ibexpc.com/ http://www.koobox.com/ http://www.linare.com/ http://www.linspire.com/ http://www.linuxcertified.com/ http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/ http://www.microtelpc.com/ http://www.outpost.com/ http://shoprcubed.com/ http://www.sub300.com/ http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm http://www.walmart.com/ http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information) No OS (Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes) http://www.avadirect.com/ http://www.asimobile.com/ http://www.powernotebooks.com/

  21. Nothing new to see here by confused+one · · Score: 1
    They've been on again / off again with the linux offerings. I purchased a couple of workstations in 1997 with Windows installed (only option), formatted the drives and installed RH 5.0. A few months later they started offering the machines with RH linux pre-installed. A year or so after that they stopped offering it... and so on, and so forth. Fickle.

    As an aside, I believe they're offering the systems with FreeDOS because some people do want to install linux, but don't want RedHat (I run Suse now). This way, they can offer a choice while letting the customer be responsible for the install and support. FreeDOS is included because it allowing you to run the DELL supplied hardware diagnostics.

    PPS, they don't offer it on consumer grade machines because they don't want the support headaches.