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Sony's Revolution Killer?
jchenx writes "Sony, who was rumored to be developing an online service to compete with Xbox Live, may also be developing a counter to Nintendo's Revolution. From the Gamespot article: 'Sony intend[s] to make it their 'Revolution Killer.' They're working on tying in Eyetoy and some kind of controller similar to the Revolution controller. With a 100M+ userbase, tens of thousands of mature and documented dev kits and the very low cost of producing Rev style games on the PS2 platform they're expecting to mobilize another 50M units over the next 5 years precipitated by a $99 price point in 2007.'" This is a Gamespot rumour control article; At the moment, this is nothing more than conjecture.
Sounds like they are going to just make knock-offs. Historically, these tend not to be that great (and I'm being generous there...)
By reading this, you have given me brief control of your mind.
The Term Killer is just wrong , how about Competitor . :Steve's Puppy Killer.
At a Dog show , a hip new Dog that wants to win the gold in the Puppy class is not called for example
It is Sony Competitor to the Revolution's service , it is not out to brutally murder it , unless Balmer is now CEO of Sony.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Sony may also release an addon that allows the PS2 to achieve low earth orbit to compete with Burt Rutan. Seriously, was there anything in that article that wasn't just a complete WAG?
Sony to compete with other companies, film at 11!
I read the internet for the articles.
I'd think it much more likely Sony would develop a revolution style controler for the PS3, assuming its legally sound to do so in the first place.
Sony is planning on producing a Cuisinart killer by including a blender peripheral for the PS3. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Come on, Nintendo is going to release the Revolution this year, while Sony is expecting delays. Let's see, they've done a killer job on their revised MP3 player line, definitely taking it to Apple! Seriously though, when Nintendo comes out with the Revolution, they will get a fairly large fan base pretty damn quick. Tying it to the PS2 Eye-Toy? Great idea, considering how many PS2 games utilize that piece of hardware right now...
Although the revolution specs arn't confirmed they will be better then 6 year old hardware, games will look a lot nicer and will be more dynamic.
Its the quality of the games that matters how do sony expect to use an old and getting very dated console to compete with something brand new by just tricking out a new controller and releasing a few more games.
Sony, with their chest pounding A BILLION TRILLYGONS PER MICROSECOND THE PS3 WILL CHANGE YO LIFE banter, are you going to try and convince me that their only competition for Nintendo is rereleasing an incredibly weak and dated system and that Sony expects to support the system, along with the PS3, as well as third party developers? You guys are huffing way too much ether man.
---space.is.the.place---
First of all, I was the one who submitted the article. And yes, I know it's just a rumor, but I think it was pretty interesting nonetheless. And I happen to think it's completely plausible. Why?
Well, having controllers that sense movement aren't exactly new fare. Every time I go to the mall, I walk past those kiosks that sell gimmicky video game systems with Ping Pong paddles. You use these paddles to control your on-screen character to play a game of ping pong. Surely I can't be the only person who's seen this. The problem with those games is that whatever sensors they're using aren't very accurate, so most people that try to play it just end up being befuddled. From what I've seen, kids are usually able to adapt, while their parents struggle. It's typical "As Seen On TV" quality, which is "not much".
Can Sony make a similar knock-off product? You betcha. If it's the EyeToy group that's involved (as TFA suggests), then I don't see why they can't pull off something similar. But it's just a gimmicky product, and not one that draws in tons of fans. (We have the EyeToy at home, and it's fun for parties, but nothing more)
Now, I have full faith in Nintendo that the Revolution will be so much more than the "Ping Pong" controller or whatever Sony manages to put out (if they do). However, I wouldn't put it beyond Sony at all to put out a cheap imitation product, if only to lessen the impact of the Revolution. In essense, they're just trying to get people to dismiss the innovation of the Revolution control scheme as just a gimmick. I sure hope it doesn't work.
-- jchenx
IRC Log...
[PSX4Lyfe]: OMG NINTENDO SUX
[XBOX115623]: YEAH U DONT HAVE TO TELL ME
[PSX4Lyfe]: gaycube lol
[XBOX115623]: roffl mario and luiji have gay sex
[PSX4Lyfe]: i bet dat playstation will make a controler dat beats the GAYVOLUTION REMOTE
[XBOX115623]: xbox will to. bill gates will buy nintndo
[PSX4Lyfe]: tell ur freinds dat playstation will beat NINTNDONT at theyre own game itll be sick
[PSX4Lyfe]: playstation dvd remote will beat smellvolutio remote
[XBOX115623]: ok will do see u at skool 2mro
[PSX4Lyfe]: cu
The next day on Slashdot...
Sony's Revolution Killer?
[XBOX115623]: o sick dude ur on gamespot and slashdots
[PSX4Lyfe]: o snap
Silly Sony. Getting bleeding-edge stuff like this to work in the game industry isn't about hardware, it's about software. Eyetoy-like devices and software existed for *years* on PCs, but this was never taken seriously for gaming until Sony sat down and made some fun games that worked with their Eyetoy. Games that made use of a touch screen existed for *years* on PDAs, but this was never taken seriously until Nintendo sat down and made some fun games that worked with their DS.
Sony can toss together some hardware that mimics the Nintendo Revolution, but it's not going to be taken seriously until Nintendo sits down and makes some fun games that works with their Revolution.
Sony, if you approach this with the spirit of "oh crap! we have to catch up with Nintendo!", you are not going to produce the fun games necessary to make the endeavor worthwhile. This isn't like XBox Live, where online gaming is a well-known and well-understood practice whose formulas were perfected ten years ago, and where catching up with Microsoft just means meeting all the bullet points on their feature list. This is creativity, where success isn't measured in the size of the development budget. You'd be better directing your developer resources at making the PS3 brand itself strong.
They can copy the idea all they want, but the key to selling it has to be the games.
The difference between Sony and Nintendo is that Sony will use their version of the controller to sell the same old games. So basically selling a new control system to the same hard-core gamers. Business as usual, when you look at it in detail.
Nintendo is actually looking at using the controller to create entire new genres. The controller is just the springboard to those games. So they aren't just selling new control to hard-cores - they are selling new games to new gamers. This is the Revolution. The change of target audience.
Everything being the same, it is the games that helps sell the system, and Nintendo has a strong history of making games everyone wants to play. And now a large barrier - the 100 button controller - is taken out of the picture.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
I wouldn't exactly call this a "Revolution Killer" ... they're just talking about another add on for PS2.
...
From TA: Got some PS2 info if you're interested," read the e-mail. "Sony intend[s] to make it their 'Revolution Killer.' They're working on tieing [sic] in Eyetoy and some kind of controller similar to the Revolution controller. With a 100M+ userbase, tens of thousands of mature and documented dev kits and the very low cost of producing Rev style games on the PS2 platform they're expecting to mobilise [sic] another 50M units over the next 5 years precipitated by a $99 price point in 2007."
If it ever came to market, it would set up a showdown between the Revolution and the PS2--one that could be tipped by the latter's massive installed base and low development costs.
Now, with the PS2's older hardware, and the fact that every PS2 user would have to buy this accessory... it's really not even worth mentioning. It's not a "Revolution Killer", more like a new accessory that will emulate what comes WITH the Revolution, on older hardware.
And if they think everyone that owns a PS2 is gonna buy the accessory, they're nuts. I wouldn't exactly call the "100M+ userbase" an advantage in this situation since at launch, since none of these 100M+ people will be ready to play these new games as is.
I'd take this with a grain of salt. From the article, it's the "a guy I know knows a guy who heard about this" mode of information travel- hardly reliable.
Ignoring that, I don't really see this having any truth. From the article, this is for the Playstation 2, not the PS3.
Next, this would be an accessory for a small amount of games, not an official controller included in every unit.
Also, how they would make it work would be curious, though I don't doubt its plausibility. Nintendo's controller uses spacial recognition (using triangulating sensors) and pitch/yaw (most likely gyros) to do its controlling. If this supposed PS2 controller uses eyeToy, then it would presumably be by pattern recognition. How would the camera recognize the controller?
To my knowledge, eyeToy games recognize the hand, which has a distinct shape (if programmed to recognize the various contortions the hand can accomplish.) As a static object, this would be easier to recognize, but only if it doesn't contrast with any colors or shapes around it. Most people don't wear flesh-colored accessories or clothes; if the controller is white, what happens if it's put in front of a white shirt? What about if the user puts it behind their back?
Plus, the PS2 is being replaced this year (well, or early next year.... sometime before 2010). While there will still be development for it, a lot of it will eventually peter off as more and more people jump to the PS3. If the PS3 can handle PS2 eyeToy software and the eyeToy itself, that isn't a problem in the least; otherwise, there will be low demand.
In short, I really don't see this happening. Even if it does, it will be no "Rev killer" unless it comes standard with every system.
I don't see this as something that has to be better than the Revolution. I see this as something that targets the PS2's huge instal base and could cost a fraction of a whole next-gen system (Rev), but offer similar enough experience to disway people from going out and getting the Revolution. It doesn't have to be better, just more appealing and with 100+ million PS2's out there, it is easy to see that they just need to keep Nintendo from gaining any market share to be "successful" with something like this. I could see them dumping a ton of money on it just to humle the revolutionary aspects of the Revolution.
Really, take a way the cool control scheme and Nintendo's only remaining strong point is their IP (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing, etc). Is that enough to compete with two consoles with admittedly better specs and a rapidly growing IP catelog of their own (Sony more than M$)? This could be the shrewd move that pulls the plumber's pants down.
I know we all hate Flash, but surly this is at least a part answer to all the homebrew calls. Okay they are not opening up the platform so we can port MAME. But you can knock together some pretty fun games in Flash.
This article has nothing of substance to it. Sony tends to be very good with their marketing and propaganda most of the time. They decimated Sega with it and they are trying to do the same to Microsoft and Nintendo. The problem is that the Revolution is nearly entirely immune to being counter hyped at the moment.
When Sega made claims for the Saturn or the Dreamcast, Sony was able to make claims that set them above that level. They could come out cheaper, or with better graphics, or with better games. But Nintendo mostly keeps its mouth shut. There are no set specs for hardware other then a vague 'gamecube times 2' for graphical power. The controller is, at the moment, something that Sony and Microsoft have no direct answer to. There is nothing on the laundry list of features for PS3 that is comparable at the moment.
The weakness of this article as propaganda says alot about the situation. The best response to the Revolution that Sony has right now is an add on periphereal to current generation hardware. Their response to the appeal to casual gamers is to have downloadable flash games. Now, some flash based games are fine, but I would never pay to play any of them. The one thing I am certain of is that Nintendo is not going after causal gamers with cheap 2D flash based games. They are going after them with the best their game developers can offer.
So at best, I would say that Sony has no idea what to do about Nintendo. They are unsure if Nintendo is going to even be worth responding to seriously. So the best they have to counter it is a throwaway rumor involving a half measure with a camera and some flash software.
END COMMUNICATION
...who are my employer, for what it's worth (but I don't know anything about what the article discusses):
With things like EyeToy and Singstar, and more recently Buzz, Sony has been making more mainstream-style games. I wouldn't be surprised if some research unit somewhere wasn't looking at Revolution-style input. I also wouldn't be surprised if it hadn't been looked at before Revolution was announced, but just never made any headway.
I'm still reserving judgement on Rev stuff until I see it running, preferably until I get a chance to try it out. The success or failure of it depends entirely on how good it feels, not on the concept.
Game dev and music blog
But has Cuba figured out how to make it launch missiles yet? I thought that was its big selling point back in the day.
..they're the ones who used the remnants of an abandoned joint project with Nintendo to enter the console business. They're no stranger to adapting whatever the others are doing.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Now Sony is copying Nintendo's controller and Nintendo will copy Sony's controller whenever it needs a new controller for Donkey Kong Country
//WR
Sony makes cheap copy of Nintendo's waffle. Makes it easily breakble and badly supported, and expensive. People know Nintendo will be using this type of controller rather extensively. People remember Sony's waffle stick. People shy away from Nintendo.
I don't see what the big deal with the revolution is. Game developers, not the console manufacturers, make most of the games.
If a game only needs the power of a last generation console, then why not release the game on a last generation console? I will give credit to nintendo for experimenting with gaming and different kinds of peripherals, but peripherals are cheap to design compared to an entire console. I'd be surpised if sony or a third party developer did NOT come up with a peripheral that copies the inovations nintendo comes up with.
It wouldn't surprise if we see the current and next generation consoles coexisting.
I wonder if this will be like Sony's Xbox live killer. Also given how MS and sony will copy the innovation from nintendo rather than innovate themselves anyone else not surprised nintendo has been so secretive about the revolution. It also makes me wonder if sony is just waiting for the specs to come out so that they can tack it on the PS3
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
WTF? This isn't really suprising or news. Surely someone remembers the EyeToy demo from E32k5. This was news then (and long before the Revolution controller was announced).
What Nintendo should be wary of at this point is relying on a special, possibly expensive, controller to sell their system. The EyeToy can do the same basic things, using an entirely different approach. In fact, it may be able to handle more, as (looking at the demo) one can control two (and probably more) cups using one EyeToy, but you'd need a separate controller for the Rev.
This isn't to say Nintendo won't have awesome and innovative games that take advantage of the controller. Given the DS, they undoubtedly will. The point though is marketing... Sony can say "oh, we can do that too", and they lose their edge.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Sony was working on developing the CD hardware that Nintendo was going to use when there was some sort of falling out between the two. Nintendo put carts in the N64, as a result of it.
More importantly, optical drives were still slow in the early to mid-1990s. Remember how bad the loading times were for Sega CD and early PS1 games? That's part of why the Nintendo DS still uses carts, so that even poorly engineered racing games released during the launch window don't have 70 seconds of loading for a 150 second race *cough* Midnight Club *cough*. Play WWF Warzone, an old WWE rasslin' game that was ported to PS1 and N64, and see how loading makes a difference.
Frankly I don't care if everyone uses normal controlers as long as people make more lightgun games. Point Blank 7!
In this era of LCD, DLP, plasma, and who knows what else other than CRT, only an airmouse such as the Revolution controller will allow for "light gun" games.
And now a large barrier - the 100 button controller - is taken out of the picture.
But without a 101-button controller, how do you chat with online players? Or is chat purposely left out of the game in order to keep it E-rated and COPPA-friendly (as with Toontown Online and Mario Kart DS)?
But you can knock together some pretty fun games in Flash.
No I can't, because I don't have a job. Despite sending my cover letter and resume to local companies, I can't seem to get even an interview. GCC is affordable and Free; Macradobe Flash is neither.
This may be all speculation, yes, but if it is true, this might prove that Nintendo is still a force to be reckoned with. I mean, they haven't even released the console yet and Sony's already rushing to plan a way to derail it.
Say Sony comes out with this controller and some games for the PS2, but they intentionally make it bad, or at least nothing to rave about. Only thing they excel at is get in people's minds "Revolution (like) controller;" then on people's minds after playing is, "kinda-lame controller."
Nintendo releases the Revolution, some people now think, "the controller is lame, I'll save up for the PS3."
OpenOffice Impress has a SWF export and http://openlaszlo.org/ is SWF based use your C skills to improve these (nether are at the level to write many games yet).
Or try:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/swfsource/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/libswf/
http://sswf.sourceforge.net/
SWF may only be partially open (fully documented and encouraged to create application that write SWF, but forbiden to create competing players), but it is a lot more open then the rest of the PSP!
its just a wand for the eyetoy it cannot judge depth/pitch/yaw its basically a styles and works only on the XY axises
Has anyone considered the possibility that Sony would be realising a crappy product for the PS2 to saturate the niche market that the Rev plans to profit on? With their large PS2 base and their marketing abilities, they can creat something similar, cheaper and more gimmicky yet more accessible. People will buy this, not be thrilled and have no interest in what the Rev offers. I think Apple emplyed this same tactic with certain MP3 phone.
I guess I don't really see the logic behind this. They're going to capture the casual market by relying on their existing (non-casual) userbase? And their plan is to undercut Nintendo by $100 with severely underpowered hardware that has no WiFi adaptor or integrated online service.
Even if they did pull this off (and Nintendo has everything about the Revolution controller patented, so good luck), the PS2 just doesn't have the right developers to make those sort of games. The industry is going to have to wait for Miyamoto to make some games and teach them how this whole gyro thing is going to work. That's how it went down when he brought back analog sticks.
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what with their all star killer lineups:
PS1 was the SNES killer
PS2 is the dreamcast killer
killzone the halo killer
killzone 2 the halo 2,3,4,and 5 killer
PS3 the 360 killer
PS3 the Revolution killer
PS3 the beef killer (ps3grill)
PS3 the cancer killer
PS3 the router killer
PS3 controller the Revolution killer
There's plenty of killers, but I'm not seeing a lot of body bags. . .
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.