Slashdot Mirror


Cubicles a Giant Mistake

J to the D writes "Apparently even the designer of the cubicle believes now that they are a bad idea." From the article: "After years of prototyping and studying how people work, and vowing to improve on the open-bullpen office that dominated much of the 20th century, Propst designed a system he thought would increase productivity (hence the name Action Office). The young designer, who also worked on projects as varied as heart pumps and tree harvesters, theorized that productivity would rise if people could see more of their work spread out in front of them, not just stacked in an in-box."

90 of 374 comments (clear)

  1. Stuff that Matters... by Slipgrid · · Score: 5, Funny

    My cubicles walls help give me more free time to spend on Slashdot... And, that's Stuff that Matters...

    1. Re:Stuff that Matters... by Slipgrid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now, I'm a bit smarter than that. All my surfing is logged on my home computer. My home computer is my proxy. Easy enough to do, though I did study CS for many years. Funny, though, because the system admin wanted me to run a spyware remover on my desktop at work, that I've used for two years now. It came back with only one cookie that it thought was set to last to long. He was stunned. Not bad for all that time here.

    2. Re:Stuff that Matters... by sgt_doom · · Score: 5, Funny

      It still beats being shackled to those damn oars...I hated those Roman overseers....

  2. Just Another Tool by tverbeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Like any tool, the fault isn't the tool but the people using it. I've worked in (and helped design) some "cubicles" that were closer to Propst's vision... less a cubicle farm than a garden. They beat working in a doored, fully-walled office, and definitely were better than what used to come before them (rows and columns of desks, one-room-schoolhouse style).

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:Just Another Tool by mordors9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But there is also human nature. Someone hidden behind any sort of wall MAY take the opportunity to goof off. Having said that, the fault then really lies with management. They have to recruit good people, train the people properly, motivate them and reward them for good performance. It doesn't matter if there are cubicles, offices or an open area. We are all adults working together to reach the obejctive.

    2. Re:Just Another Tool by Abcd1234 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They beat working in a doored, fully-walled office

      You must be on crack to believe that. Anyone who works in a job that requires any kind of concentration (software development being the most obvious example) will, given the opportunity, enter a state of "flow" where they are wholly committed to the work they're doing. Many people have likely experienced this: ever start working and then suddenly realize it's already lunch time? Have you had periods where you spend a couple hours deeply focused while getting enormous amounts of work done? That's flow.

      The thing is, getting into this state requires at least 20 minutes to a half an hour, and it can be very easily disturbed by outside distractions, such as noise, conversations, etc. And any break in ones concentration just requires another 20 minutes of recovery time. Consequently, open, cubicle-style workspaces are exactly the *worst* kind of work environment for these kinds of professions. All they do is increase the amount of distraction and make it more difficult for employees to enter a proper state of flow, when they are most productive.

      This would be why I greatly favour offices over any other kind of open concept design, at least for these types of jobs. Does that mean slackers can slack off more easily? Sure. But you'll see greatly increased productivity from the quality employees, as they'll be able to get more work done due to less distraction. And for those slackers, well, the more they slack off, the more obvious it is that they're doing it, giving you the opportunity to cut out the chaff from the wheat.

    3. Re:Just Another Tool by RevMike · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anyone who works in a job that requires any kind of concentration (software development being the most obvious example) will, given the opportunity, enter a state of "flow" where they are wholly committed to the work they're doing. Many people have likely experienced this: ever start working and then suddenly realize it's already lunch time? Have you had periods where you spend a couple hours deeply focused while getting enormous amounts of work done? That's flow.

      The thing is, getting into this state requires at least 20 minutes to a half an hour, and it can be very easily disturbed by outside distractions, such as noise, conversations, etc. And any break in ones concentration just requires another 20 minutes of recovery time. Consequently, open, cubicle-style workspaces are exactly the *worst* kind of work environment for these kinds of professions. All they do is increase the amount of distraction and make it more difficult for employees to enter a proper state of flow, when they are most productive.

      Even in a typical private office, however, there are still distractions. The telephone ringing or your neighbor speaking too loud or any of a million other things can be disturbing.

      A good compromise is to provide flexible space, cubicles for handling the normal day-to-day stuff, team rooms for collaborative work, and small private spaces with no distractions for deep solo concentration.

      Actually, lots of companies provide the third. The room is generally tiled and has a row of tiny offices equipped with porceline chairs.

    4. Re:Just Another Tool by kov · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At the risk of drawing derision on financial software development, we couldn't possibly do what we do with offices. When the trading desk has a problem with your software system and you're bleeding money, it's battle stations. Much easier to have a big wide open room with everyone right there madly working on the solution. More sources of input, less redundant communication. The benefits of that are too good compared to the benefits of an office -- you just have to learn how to concentrate in the middle of a battlefield, sort of like that guy in the Seven Samurai who makes himself sleep when the time's available (and only when it's available!).

      Course, we don't use cubes either, just a wide open floor with desks.

    5. Re:Just Another Tool by Tim · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Anyone who works in a job that requires any kind of concentration (software development being the most obvious example) will, given the opportunity, enter a state of "flow" where they are wholly committed to the work they're doing.

      Yeah, that's nice in theory. In practice, the people most dedicated to The Flow (tm), are the antisocial, uncooperative nitwits who hole themselves up in their offices for 8+ hours each day, only to turn out piles of un-reviewed, un-documented, poorly-specified crap (whether code or otherwise).

      With no exceptions, the best tech workers I know are balanced, social people who prefer not to hole up in their offices. The best coding environment I ever worked in was a room of 6 developers, separated by bookshelves, with small break-out rooms available for truly private conversations. Of course, you do actually have to like your coworkers for a setup like that to work, but I digress....

      --
      Let's try not to let fact interfere with our speculation here, OK?
    6. Re:Just Another Tool by fm6 · · Score: 5, Informative
      That's funny. I work at a company where almost everybody has a private office. And yet lots of people go home to work to get away from the distractions!

      The way to eliminate distractions is not to build walls, but to build awareness of people's needs. People need to be aware of how the noise they make affects others. That's not just important in cube land — somebody with a nasty case of "cell phone shout" can reach through walls!

    7. Re:Just Another Tool by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, lots of companies provide the third. The room is generally tiled and has a row of tiny offices equipped with porceline chairs.

      True. To coin the grandparent poster, I often experience "the flow" when in these private sanctuaries.

      --
      Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
    8. Re:Just Another Tool by Usquebaugh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm just starting to experiment with sensory deprivation at work. I'm using a set of the monitors in glasses and also a set of ear defenders with an old set of mini headphones embedded.

      It's going pretty well and I can pretty much stay in the flow no matter what. Although I do worry about the fire alarms. Next I'm going to try a recliner.

      Ideally I'd like to dump the keyboard and mouse, but I can't think how.

      I'm much better at getting through work, although my wierdness factor is just gone up an order of magnitude.

    9. Re:Just Another Tool by karnal · · Score: 5, Funny

      You should move a little to the left. No one likes it when you crap in the sink, fyi.

      --
      Karnal
    10. Re:Just Another Tool by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you think any company can afford to give private offices to anybody but it's most important employees, you're deluding yourself.

      When did I say they could? My point is that offices are better. Period. Whether a company can afford them is a completely different issue. I happen to work for a tech company on a site in a smaller Canadian city where office space is relatively cheap. Consequently, we all have two-person offices (with windows, no less). Is this unusual? Probably. Is it incredibly awesome? Definitely! 'course, it helps that there are management-types in the company who have actually coded, and thus understand the value of a quiet, distraction-free environment.

    11. Re:Just Another Tool by ltbarcly · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, that isn't 'flow'. It's Attention Deficit Disorder. It's very, very common among computer programmers, as intelligent people with ADD will self select CS because the instant feedback gives an immediate reward for concentration, and therefore they feel more successful at computer work than other endeavors.

      See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus

    12. Re:Just Another Tool by eric76 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I now have two offices. Both are in the same building about 30 feet from each other.

      The larger office is my public office. It used to be a conference room but is now packed with book shelves, a several tables and desks, and a number of computers. Any more, I spend about three fourths of my workday in it.

      The smaller, private office is very quiet. It is well insulated and has no telephone. It has a large comfortable easy chair pushed up to a desk with a couple of computers and a monitor. It also has a CD player and small speakers, but I hardly turn it on. Everyone knows to bother me there only if it is really important.

      I can usually accomplish more software development work in two uninterrupted hours in the private office than I can in 8 hours in the public office.

      All it takes is one or two interruptions in that two hours and my productivity drops to about the same as in the public office.

    13. Re:Just Another Tool by RocketRainbow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      SNAP!!!

      Yes, if you are easily distracted, have trouble getting into a mental/emotional state where you can work and think clearly, and once in "the zone" you are hyperfocused on your goal, then you may have ADD. It might be associated with hyperactivity, or with inattention/phasing out. In my case, it's associated with an astonishingly small amount of mental RAM and extreme sluggishness in the morning before my first dose of (no I don't believe in Xenu) drugs.

      If you're a coffee addict or smoker, and you feel large amounts of these stimulants help you to function normally (and when you try to come off them you just CAN'T), that's more evidence that ADD may be responsible. Ask your doctor for a referral to a (good) psychiatrist!

      By the way, ADD can be successfully managed with a lot less drugs and a lot more yoga, and it has been associated with people like Einstein who clearly had a "nerd personality" but definitely not ASD. So it's not a delinquency/criminal illness and it's not mental retardation and it's DEFINITELY not an excuse for lazy people to get high! (I am a Buddhist and I hate drugs - I won't even take strong herbs without a doctor's orders.) Actually, there's often a genetic cause and usually related to the ASD gene (but with a different expression in brain function).

      Bring on the pink Hello Kitty labcoat for use in all those laser labs where my sparkly things are banned!

      xx
      Rocket

      --
      *#*#*#*#*#******* I love peanut butter sandwiches!
    14. Re:Just Another Tool by RocketRainbow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even if a company can't afford pretty offices, there's no reason to put everyone to work in septic flourescent batteries. A few colour-corrected flouros mimics the feel of working next to the window! You could put in a few well-placed indoor plants, and with careful choice of colour (ie NOT prison turquoise) it feels perfectly delightful being at work. The advantage of windows is natural light and fresh air - if you can keep those coming in, it doesn't matter whether you're adjacent to the exterior wall. Colours and foliage simply enhance the feeling of calm/peace.

      --
      *#*#*#*#*#******* I love peanut butter sandwiches!
    15. Re:Just Another Tool by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You must be on crack to believe that. Anyone who works in a job that requires any kind of concentration (software development being the most obvious example) will, given the opportunity, enter a state of "flow" where they are wholly committed to the work they're doing.

      The thing is, getting into this state [flow] requires at least 20 minutes to a half an hour, and it can be very easily disturbed by outside distractions, such as noise, conversations, etc. And any break in ones concentration just requires another 20 minutes of recovery time.

      Nope. When I was in the Navy, I could (and still can) enter flow by a simple act of will - and exit and reenter it equally as easily. But then, I worked very hard to gain that ability - because at Battle Stations you really had no other options. (Or even during refit when faced with a thorny troubleshooting problem.) It's a matter of discipline.

      Many young Jedi wannabees claim that absolute privacy and silence is needed because they grew up without being forced to obtain an attention span, preferring instant gratification at need - they grow up to be adults lacking a vital skill.

    16. Re:Just Another Tool by aeoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, you should open up your mind more.

      I've had from about 1000 friends (not kidding) to almost none. I'm not this or that. I'm not social or anti-social. Sometimes I chat up almost anyone, and other times I want my space. Sometimes I am a party/clown type fool and others times I'm serious. Don't stick me with your idiotic labels just because you didn't have the priviledge to know me for more than 3 years, please.

      Right now I work in a cube. I love talking to others. Right now. I am not obligated to keep loving it. I am not obligated to hate it. And here's the kicker, I still enter the zone! Even in a social situation I can be as focused as anyone in a completely isolated and sound-proof office. AND it doesn't stop me from being able to chat with my cube buddies once in a while, or maybe a lot on some days. Or maybe not at all on others.

      For Pete's sake, just stop stereotyping. The zone, social, anti-social, good, bad, asshole, nice, it's not how you imagine. It's really not. It only seems you got it nailed down. But once you start asking yourself tough questions and start being really observant, you'll see that people are individuals and that many qualities you previously thought to be exclusive are not necessarily exclusive.

      Someone in an office can be very friendly and social. Someone in a cube farm or in a completely open environment can be able to enter the zone. Someone who can enter the zone can be very considerate of others. Someone who is a socialite could be an inconsiderate and narcisistic asshole. And so on. Just because you talk to others a lot and get your code reviewed doesn't mean you write good code. You might be stupid and resistant to change, no matter how much your code gets reviewed. The reviewers might be idiots. It's really, really hard to say. It's very context/situation dependent. And please, I am not trying to know code reviews -- I love open source and I constantly solicit reviews of my own code, even though code review is not even a policy in my workplace.

      In a word, just try to grow an open mind. Please. For all of us! Not just for your own sake.

    17. Re:Just Another Tool by JabrTheHut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When the trading desk has a problem with your software system and you're bleeding money, it's battle stations.

      There is, unfotunately, no desk system that can compensate for coders who skip the test and UAT stages and move code directly from dev to live, then wonder why it doesn't work...

      --
      Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
  3. Now wait just a minute... by PenguinBoyDave · · Score: 5, Funny

    Without cubes, we never would have been given Dilbert, Office Space or User Friendly. Cubes aint all that bad!

    --
    I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
    1. Re:Now wait just a minute... by susano_otter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Without cubes, we never would have been given Dilbert, Office Space or User Friendly. Cubes aint all that bad!

      The creators of these works are essentially profiting from helping us to relieve the stress and pain caused by bad work environments and policies.

      Imagine what rewarding and fulfilling work they could do, if society had no need for them to expend their creative energies helping us to relieve the stress of working in cubicles.

      Imagine what more we could all do, if we didn't have to relieve that stress in the first place!

      Dilbert, Office Space, and User Friendly all make the best of a bad situation. I'd rather their creators never had a bad situation to make the best of, in the first place.

      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    2. Re:Now wait just a minute... by dusik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Some of the best jokes I know came out of the Soviet Union. Although, most of them aren't even that funny to someone who hasn't had a chance to live in the USSR.

      As Heisenberg said, "There are things that are so serious that you can only joke about them."

      The question is, is the suffering worth it to you?

    3. Re:Now wait just a minute... by susano_otter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with bumper-sticker philosophy is that the idea expressed is usually too complex to be clearly communicated by a witty one-liner.

      My sig is actually a dig at libertarianism, which, in a general way, holds that individuals can organize themselves in a community, without the need for "government".

      My take is that the moment you start organizing a community, you end up with a system that performs essentially the same functions, in essentially the same way, as "government".

      I also think that governments are actually incredible examples of organization on a large scale. Perhaps your perception of governments as disorganized comes from mistaking the bureaucratic overhead imposed on a huge, complex organization for disorganization. Or maybe it's that you perceive individual instances of human error (incompetence, corruption, etc.) and mistake them for evidence of system-wide, institutional disorganization. I honestly think that what you perceive as disorganized government is really just the annoying 10% of government that doesn't submit well to any attempt to organize it. The other 90% ends up running pretty smoothly.

      Besides, my sig isn't comparing government to some ideal standard of organization, but rather (by implication) to some ideal standard of disorganization: an anarchic mob, ruled by the strongest, with no attempt made at stability.

      And, finally, just because our government doesn't appear to be particularly well organized (a misperception on our part, I'm sure), that doesn't mean that a well-organized community would be functionally different from a well-organized government.

      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

  4. Cubicles are Cubs Fans ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Cubicles are Cubs Fans who sit in their ice-cold stadium

  5. cubicles are great for raising livestock by swschrad · · Score: 5, Funny

    tell me you all aren't pumped full of donuts, chained to the desk, allowed to get big and fat, and then sold for slaughter right before the holidays....

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  6. I agree completely! by rob_squared · · Score: 4, Funny

    To remedy this, I suggest corner window offices for all office employees.

    --
    I don't get it.
    1. Re:I agree completely! by infinite9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To remedy this, I suggest corner window offices for all office employees.

      I would be far happier in my cube if the walls went floor to ceiling, and there were real sound dampening materials in the walls. I can hold a conversation with the guy on the other side of the wall while speaking in a low voice. And I'm sick and tired of impromptu speaker-phone conference calls in the cube next to me.

      I feel exactly the same way about bathroom stalls.

      --
      Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
    2. Re:I agree completely! by StikyPad · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yep.. nothing worse than impromptu conference calls in the bathroom.

      For the love of God, pipe down! I'm tryina take a crap over here..

    3. Re:I agree completely! by teklob · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know why nobody pointed this out before, but having Windows in offices definately does not improve productivity. *Ducks*

  7. Easy fix... by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 4, Funny

    We just move to icosahedronicles.

  8. What the dead believe by liveinthewire · · Score: 5, Informative
    "even the designer of the cubicle believes now that they are a bad idea."

    Unlikely, since he's been dead for several years.

    1. Re:What the dead believe by mopslik · · Score: 5, Funny

      he's been dead for several years.

      You heard it here first: even brain-eating zombies hate cubicles.

    2. Re:What the dead believe by _xeno_ · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, he died in 2000, according to this FORTUNE article which was posted in this Slashdot story. From the first paragraph of the article:

      Robert Propst invented nothing so destructive. Yet before he died in 2000, he lamented his unwitting contribution to what he called "monolithic insanity."

      You should read the article. It mentions that he's dead, and it explains (based on accounts by his still-living peers) how his original Action Office devolved into the cubicle.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  9. Oh dear god no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Open plan is even worse, jesus christ I can't bear open plan, oh dear god please don't make me go back to open plan, please!

    1. Re:Oh dear god no by mykdavies · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I find open plan by far the best working environment for concentrating: being part of the environment means that I can let it all pass me by without breaking my concentration. If you hear a thud, you can just glance over, see that one of your colleagues has knocked over the water-cooler, and carry on working without breaking the flow. The buzz of background noise means that no noise really stands out - unlike say a library, where the noise of the person shuffling their papers may lead you to want to kill.

      Of course it works the other way as well - if you really needed a break at the point where the water-cooler toppled, what better excuse could you have?

      Perhaps you've never worked in a well-planned open-plan environment? I'm used to offices with sufficient space, lots of noise-absorbent material, and laid out so that you never have more than 10-15 people in direct sight.

      This article is a bit wanky, but makes some interesting points towards the end about the effectiveness of the environment (BA's headquarters at Waterside, a building I've worked at) being dependent on the motivation of the management team. This article is an interesting review of how office layout can affect your team's effectiveness. Both well worth a read.

      Cheers, Mike

      --
      The world has changed and we all have become metal men.
  10. Don't have that problem... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... theorized that productivity would rise if people could see more of their work spread out in front of them ...

    What if your work is in front of you, behind you, on both sides of you, and even hanging above you like a 100-ton anvil? Some cubicles are death traps waiting to happen. Especially if you got a Star Trek nut in a cube.

  11. Too little, too late by AusIV · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unfortunately, stating that it was a bad idea decades after the fact does nothing for the poor beings trapped in these small cages.

  12. Of course they are a bad idea! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Do you have any idea how hard it is to goofy off properly with people walking by?

    It bothers me even when I actually doing work.

    And here comes someone now.....

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  13. Re:In other words ... by timster · · Score: 5, Funny

    He IS in a box. RTFA.

    --
    I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
  14. From the perspective of a new cube monkey... by MikeRT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My first real programming job had me working in a lab with a few other students at an internship. We worked in an environment where we could all see what we were doing because of the total lack of privacy. Now that I am a graduate and a cube monkey, what I see is that cubicles offer the worst of both worlds. They give people the illusion of privacy, which is why a lot of people look at porn at work, and it also makes it much more casual to walk in and engage in idle chit chat since you have no door to knock on or authenticate access to.

    Cubicles are, however, a very good way to cheaply maximize space use because you don't have to build the walls, buy the doors and install the windows that are, well, kind of par for the course with having a bonafide office of your own.

    1. Re:From the perspective of a new cube monkey... by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most leased office space is as you describe. Most of the inner walls are more or less temporary. When you agree to sign a multo year lease, they will move walls around for you. That is why many leased office spaces are so crappy. The walls are quickly thrown together dry wall, with doors etc....

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    2. Re:From the perspective of a new cube monkey... by guacamolefoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They give people the illusion of privacy, which is why a lot of people look at porn at work, and it also makes it much more casual to walk in and engage in idle chit chat since you have no door to knock on or authenticate access to.

      I think I see a market opportunity here. I'll hook a spare line from my desk phone to a RADIUS server and maybe some sort of electronic lock. Anyone who wants in my door must call me first on their cell phone and enter their code. I could probably even set times of day for more or less limited access. I could probably even verify by caller ID. A simple phone number pasted to the door would probably be sufficient to instruct visitors. I could link it to our office's remote access server to keep the passwords synched.

      A man can dream, I guess...

    3. Re:From the perspective of a new cube monkey... by Amouth · · Score: 2, Funny

      I just picked a corner in the server room.. set up two 8ft folding tables.. used some extra file lockers as a rear wall and moved in..

      everything i need is right here. shure it is a little noisy and cold.. but who cares.. no one really bothers me

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    4. Re:From the perspective of a new cube monkey... by AlterTick · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Something just dawned on me - cubes are nothing more than movable partitions with junk that can be attached (like desks, shelves, etc). Walls are nothing more than floor-to-ceiling partitions, if you will. Maybe the next step is to back off from the standard cubicle and go for an office space that has detachable, movable walls. After all, building in doors, walls, etc., is the expense that companies are trying to avoid. It seems to me that it wouldn'd be too difficult to come up with something that might be almost as effective as a walled office, but not nearly as expensive as the "built-in" approach.

      Actually, pre-fab walls are old news. Problem is, there's a very distinct line one crosses when one goes from cubicle-style construction (which is basically classified as "furniture"), to full walls that either touch the ceiling or have their own ceiling, or have doors, or aren't "freestanding" (local building code varies). At that point it essentially becomes real construction, whether they're pre-fab panels or drywall n' stud. They then require building permits, inspections, licensed contractors, and have to comply for fire code, and health and safety regs, etc. That gets to be big, big money.

      --
      Conclusion: the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Accept it.
  15. Not quite true by WindBourne · · Score: 5, Informative

    Some of the other articles speak about that he still likes the cubicles. What he objects to, is small cubicles. When he designed it, they were about the size of a standard office. Now, they are about 1/6 to 1/8 of the size of an office. Big difference.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Not quite true by wildsurf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Now, they are about 1/6 to 1/8 of the size of an office.

      "Counselor, see me in my quarte-- .. er, my sixteenths."

      --
      Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
  16. My personal opinion... by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I tend to agree, although don't forget that cubicles are a huge imporvement over rows and rows of desks with zero privacy whatsoever. Personally, I'd rather have an office, or at least a cubicle-sized space with a door I can close. It's very distracting for some people to hear everyone's phone conversations, music choices, etc. When I work on a problem, I tend to go lock myself in a lab or some other closed space so I can have "alone time" and carefully consider things.

    It wouldn't be hard at all to give current cubicles full-sized walls and doors. I think it would greatly improve productivity. Think of how many times you've had to listen to people talking two feet away from you while you're trying to concentrate.

    One of the main barriers to adoption is the fact that you can't oversee your staff like you can in a cubicle farm or open office. But then again, if you have to constantly watch them, do you really want them as employees? :-)

    1. Re:My personal opinion... by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It wouldn't be hard at all to give current cubicles full-sized walls and doors.

      It's not a technical problem, but it's a logistical nightmare. Any partition that spans from the floor to the ceiling is classified as a wall by most building codes, and would need to be constructed as such, and pass relevant inspections. While the cost for cheap walls might rival the costs of a floor-to-ceiling cubicle, cubicles are defined as furnitre, and may be devalued after only 7 years. Buildings can't be devalued for 40 years. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I think it has to do with tax write-offs. (It also seems strange that you can devalue a building when real estate almost always increases in value, but that's another matter).

    2. Re:My personal opinion... by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Informative

      The word you want is depreciation, not devaluation. Office furniture is usually depreciated with a period of either 5 or 7 years, for example stock shelves are usually figured at 5, file cabinets at 7, and so on. (if memory serves, the lawmakers in the New York legislature that first set up this system in the US (about 1790) actually had a debate where it was argued that shelves handled by the general public depreciate a bit faster than most office furniture since the latter is only being handled by people of the employable classes).
      Buildings and fixed constructions of various types are depreciated over 15 year (seen a lot for fences, baseball park benches and backstops, and such), 27.5 (the period most often required for residential rental property), 29, 39 (usually for non-residential real property) or 40 year periods. For these longer times, the periods that are only a year or two off of others exist mostly because there are some options such as straight line depreciation vrs various curves where more of the total comes off in the first years and less in the later ones, and these have become associated with specific periods.
              Land itself is never depreciated, and generally appreciates instead, which is one reason why real estate almost always increases in value.
              For what it's worth, helicopters depreciate in 5 years, and working horses still under age 12 in 7 years. There's lots of things beside fixtures and buildings that can be depreciated.
              Depreciation does NOT mean the same thing as devaluation. No one is claiming by taking depreciation that any car over 5 years old is somehow totally worthless, for example. The claim is that the worth that remains comes not just from the initial money spent on the car but increasingly from more money spent on maintenance and upkeep. This approach is pretty fair in most cases - how much is a 5 year old car that's never been serviced going to be worth? What shape would a 27.5 year old rental property be in if the landlord didn't do any maintenance, painting, or repairs the whole time?
              In more complex business situations, a lot of depreciation is basically "What's the equivalent of a 14 year old assembly line set-up likely to be worth in terms of potential profit to the business, if a competitor has a 3 year old version, or a brand new one?" (Or, if a potential competitor could rely on you having to stick with the 14 year old stuff for at least 10 more years before you could even consider replacing it, what would that do to your bottom line?).
              One good example of this is a car used for business. The car can be depreciated using a standard curve that also allows taking standard mileage, but if the business does this, they can't claim the maintenance, gas, oil, and so on. Alternately, they can claim the maintenance, parts, and actual fuel and oil costs, but then there's no depreciation or standard mileage at all allowed.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    3. Re:My personal opinion... by Mof-Tan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have worked in a cubicle environment in the states and now work in an office in Nagoya, Japan. Here in Japan they almost always (at least at big companies) use rows and rows of desks, with three-four people next to each other.

      I have been here 7 months now and I like this much, much more than those horrible american cubicles. And it didn't help that they were piping out white noise from the ceiling.

      I can't really put a finger on why this open style doesn't bother me. My best idea is that the cubicles create some kind of worst-of-all-styles situation. You are completely isolated and alone but still have no privacy.

      It really made me understand why mentally weak people are likely to go crazy at the work place. Have you noticed that that doesn't happen nearly as much in other countries where cubicles are less prevalent...

      --
      Die dulci fruere. Have a nice day.
  17. Re:Yes! ...and by NoseBag · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...don't forget the - to me - absolutely precious term:

    PRAIRIE DOGGING! ...naturally I mean the cube-farm-heads-popping-up kind, not the "I have to go to the rest room really bad" kind. Although the latter is mildly amusing too.

    --
    Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
  18. You should know the sordid history of this design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I worked on design of the cubicle. The original idea had us placing workers inside transparent spheres, but testing revealed some office environments devolved into crazy pinball machines or a bumper car ride from hell. Our second revision merely squared off the spheres and lowered the height for visibility. There was no long-term view to our design. We were just trying to meet a deadline.

  19. Can we kill the paging system as well? by newdamage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The tandem of tiny cubes and the paging system is enough to drive one to insanity. Nothing like finally slipping into the zone to get some real work done when everybody leaves for lunch when suddenly there is the blaring overhead, "Will the owner of a black jeep please come to the front desk? Your lights are on."

    And suddenly I'm back to square one. I don't even think industrial strength ear plugs could block out most corporate paging systems.

    --
    ce n'est pas un Sig.
    1. Re:Can we kill the paging system as well? by corbettw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nothing like finally slipping into the zone to get some real work done when everybody leaves for lunch when suddenly there is the blaring overhead, "Will the owner of a black jeep please come to the front desk? Your lights are on."

      Especially since, if you just wait a little while, the lights on that jeep will magically go off! It's a self-correcting problem!

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  20. cubicles, open offices by l3v1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Back when I was in my last year at university I went to a job interview to a .net dev company. Everything went fine, the fellas I talked to seemed ok, tests I had to pass were not that PITA, the money seemed ok too. Yet, I didn't work there, not even for a day. Why ? Yes, "open" office.

    Back to the present, I have now a full time and a part time job. In the part time job my place is in a cubicle, sort of, 3 workplaces in a box, about 2m high "walls" between boxes. I only took it, because I only have to spend max. 2 days/week there, and I can also work remotely at times.

    And I know I'm not alone with this. FYI, I'm not a bad team player, still, I need my place where I can do my part alone. And yes, music.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  21. "Now" believes it was a mistake? by Rick+Genter · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you read TFA, you'll see that Probst, the inventor of the cubicle, died in 2000. It was actually before then that he realized that cubicles were a mistake...

    --
    Don't underestimate the power of The Source
    1. Re:"Now" believes it was a mistake? by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, actually it was after that. When he was welcomed to hell with open arms, and placed in his cubicle.

      Though I'm not sure exactly how he got the message out to us...

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
  22. Windows by dpbsmith · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't think it's practical to give everyone a corner office, but everyone _could_ have a window.

    In Peopleware, Tom DeMarco & Timothy Lister observe that work better in offices with windows. When this is pointed out, management usually says "sure, but it's impossible to give everyone a room with a window."

    DeMarco and Lister's reply is that in fact every hotel in the world manages to do this.

    1. Re:Windows by HardCase · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't think it's practical to give everyone a corner office, but everyone _could_ have a window.

      whoosh!!!!

    2. Re:Windows by XenoRyet · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Yes, but hotels try for the most appealing use of their land space, not the most efficent. You could give everyone a window office, but it'll cost you. I imagine the price per day per square foot is much higher in a hotel than an office building.

      It is, of course, entirely possible that the cost will be worth it, due to the incresed productivity, reduced stress, and general worker well being. It's just not as straight forward as it may appear.

      --
      If forums teach us anything, it is that logic and critical thinking should be required courses in the public schools.
    3. Re:Windows by Zerth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hell, I don't even have an office, let alone one along an outside wall, and I have a window!

      In fact, nearly everybody here has a window, because the building used to be a window factory, so the previous company used their own product nearly everywhere in the construction. If it was to showcase them or to cut down on the cost of drywall, I'm not sure.

      Of course most of them look out onto stairwells or warehouse shelves, but at least they are windows:)

    4. Re:Windows by Bull999999 · · Score: 5, Funny

      work better in offices with windows

      This is Slashdot. I recommend that they get Linuxes instead.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
    5. Re:Windows by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

      So you just put windows in everyone's cubicle. Problem solved.

    6. Re:Windows by Duhavid · · Score: 2, Funny

      But imagine the license fees to Microsoft!

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
  23. It's All Relative Really by aquatone282 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Prior to starting a second-career as a software engineer for a medium-sized defense contractor, I was an avionics technician in the USAF. My work areas were either windowless labs, aircraft hangars, or aircraft parking areas.

    I'll take this cube in climate controlled building with big windows any day. I have more privacy and more comfort. Plus, my co-workers don't fart, spit, and discuss goose-hunting all freakin' day long.

    Just my 2 cents.

    --
    What?
  24. Bullpens are bullshit by cgrayson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The collaborative power of people working on the same project sitting together is crap.

    For every time it saves time for one person (in a (typical?) four-person bullpen to be able to call out a question to the others, there's exactly three times it distracts and breaks the flow of the others.

    And that's purposeful interruptions; it's not even counting incidental distractions (phone calls, thinking-out-loud comments, etc.).

    I've worked in both private offices and open environments, and I'm with Joel. Privacy and lack of interruption is key for developers.

    1. Re:Bullpens are bullshit by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's especially bad if one of the people is a heavy Coke drinker. The sound of the pop tops opening! The coughing when he swallows wrong! The loud burping!!

      I don't know how my cubemates could stand it.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  25. I don't see how this could be by iamdrscience · · Score: 3, Funny
    Cubicles a Giant Mistake
    Impossible. Most cubicles are very tiny, and even of those that aren't I have never seen one that could be described as "giant".
  26. Nothing new really by houghi · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have removed the typical cubical wall in several places and always the working together improved, wich is something you would want in general.

    Places that still demanded some sort of cubicle were given lower cubicle walls, so people could see each other when sitting down, not only standing up.

    Once when asked what type of cubicle people wanted, the answer was none. Taking away cubicles made people generaly happier, because they could see other people and also had the idea that their desk was much, much larger.

    There still is enough posibilaty to give people a bit of privacy or the idea of privacy when you place the desk in a good way.

    yes, you need to enforce 'clean desk' with it and generaly that is experienced as a good idea after a week or two. In general: trow out everything you did not use in the last year and remove anything from your desk (also stuff in drawers and such) you did not use in the last month.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  27. Doesn't it depend... by Bombula · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... on the kind of work you're doing?

    --
    A-Bomb
  28. Cubicles inhibit brain growth by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Check out the article here by Kathy Sierra (of Head First fame). She quotes neuroscientist Elizabeth Gould of Princeton saying "complex surroundings create a complex brain". Basically, a monotonous environment causes the brain to stop producing new neurons. For years, it was thought that we were born with all the neurons we would ever have, largely because all studies of primate brains involved keeping the monkeys in cages -- an environment that inhibits neuron formation and growth! Now research shows that a stimulating environment fosters neuron formation and reduces brain stress. Time to bust out the electric screwdriver!

    --
    Just junk food for thought...
  29. corner offices for everybody by David+Jao · · Score: 2, Interesting
    To remedy this, I suggest corner window offices for all office employees.

    Maybe you meant it as a joke, but it is actually possible to get light on two sides of every room. See Joel's bionic office.

  30. Les Nessman by Derling+Whirvish · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about a strip of masking tape around you and your desk and a pretend door? Would that be any better?

  31. Fun with cubicles by Ratbert42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    In my office, one guy used cardboard to increase the height of his cube walls. We almost put in a masking tape / Les Nesman 4th wall and door for him, but he got moved to an office because he whined so much. Which led to everyone whining.

    I did something similar to keep my chatty neighbor from driving me nuts. I started by putting up a huge whiteboard so it stuck an extra foot above the cube wall. Then he couldn't Kilroy over the wall and chat. Then I put two extra desktop machines at the end of my desk to keep him from sitting on my desk to chat. As bonuses, it blocked the view a bit more and the extra white noise drowned him out. Then I had to put an old monitor and desktop on the floor behind my chair so there was nowhere left to stand in my cube to chat. My cube looks like something from Sanford-n-Son, but it keeps people away.

  32. Yupp I knew it. I am weird. by B5_geek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Am I the only one who likes cubes? *
    I hate seeing anybody else, leave me to my own world and I can space-out and do the job better. I wish I was in a cube at my current job. (4-man open bullpen/closet with 2 desks, 2 PC's and 2 phones.) A cube would be an UPGRADE!

    *I only like the cubes that allow me to see the 'door' when sitting. Nothing is worse then sitting in a cube and not seeing people standing behind you. (yes I have a mirror taped to my monitor, I tell people it's because I enjoy the company.)

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
  33. The optimum environment is a hallway of offices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seriously. The optimum environment for XP is everyone in their own office in the same hallway. It gives you enough privacy, and enough room to comfortably do pair programming (or to pack 3-4 people into one office for impromptu design sessions). It gives everyone room for two or more whiteboards in their office. You can leave the doors open and benefit from unconscious intake of other people's project-related conversations, but you can also close the door for total isolation when you need to concentrate on a hard problem.

    Other tips:
    (1) use an internal instant messaging system but make sure you can block IMs when you're busy so they don't distract you.
    (2) if you're like me and like to read e-mail the instant it arrives...just close your e-mail client when you need to get something done.
    (3) give window offices to productive employees. Consider rotating offices every 2 months or something, so everyone gets a window some of the time.
    (4) Supply couches (or other comfortable furniture) for people's offices. Certainly your project or team leaders (or whoever's office you usually end up in for small planning meetings etc) needs to have one.
    (5) make sure there's a lounge area near the offices (ideally its at one end of the hallway). It should have large windows with quality blinds on them. Couches and a coffee table or two. At least one REALLY LARGE whiteboard for design discussions.

    Cubicles really do suck. They are the worst of all worlds. Your best chance for achieving flow state, or for pair programming productively with a partner without distracting other people, is in an office where you can close your door.

  34. I COMPLETELY DISAGREE! by ylikone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With open-concept, I can't concentrate! I keep seeing things in my peripheral vision. I keep thinking somebody is staring at me. I feel like I am constantly in the spotlight. It would drive me mad I tell you.... MAD!!

    --
    Meh.
  35. Re:In other words ... by iamlucky13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dogbert: I plan to enslave the world. I will put everyone in small boxes and make them work there all day.
    Dilbert: That's ridiculous. People would never stand for that. Now get out of my cubicle, I'm trying to get stuff done.
    Dogbert: You mean your box.

  36. Hip hip hoorah. by crovira · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I fully agree. One of the places where I worked had a cubicle farm, where nobody worked, and a central open area where the 3270's were located (that should tell you how long ago it was, if you can even remember 3270 terminals.)

    That was where we were coding, reviewing stuff, learning off of each other, collaborating.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  37. Coffee flow by Trejkaz · · Score: 2, Funny

    You must be on crack to believe that. Anyone who works in a job that requires any kind of concentration (software development being the most obvious example) will, given the opportunity, enter a state of "flow" where they are wholly committed to the work they're doing.

    I certainly enter a state of "flow" when I've had too much coffee during the day, but I'm not sure it's the kind which actually enhanced productivity.

    --
    Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
  38. shared offices? by victorl19 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Though it might not be practical to give everyone an office, why not assign offices dormitory style, shared offices with 2 or 3 people that find each other compatible. Of course, it sounds kind of idealistic, but its a middle ground.

  39. Forget cubicles, go for telecommuting by jonwil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I still dont understand why companies dont like telecommuting.
    In the modern world of email, instant-messaging as well as things like VOIP/voice chat and video confrencing, there is no reason that you couldnt have, say, developers working from home.
    No need to spend money even on cubes or open-plan office space.

    Have meeting rooms for those times when a face-to-face meeting is the only way to get things done and other alternatives wont work.

    Management can see how much work is being done by looking at how much code employees commit to the reository. Or by looking at how many of their assigned bugs or features or tasks they complete and sign off on (including how long it takes them to do each one).

    Advantages of working from home as I see it:
    1.No need to commute to work (saves money and time as well as saving the environment)
    2.Saves the company money in that they dont need to spend as much on cubes/offices/space, electricity etc etc etc.
    3.Allows workers to work a little more flexibly (in that as long as they are working the right number of hours, they dont necessarily need to be 9-5 mon-fri). Want to go to the movies? Work late other nights that week and take friday afternoon off.
    Living with school-age kids? Start work when they are off at school, work through until they come home, then do stuff with the kids until bed-time and spend a couple hours working after the kids are in bed to make up for the hours you didnt work in the afternoon.
    Need to go to the bank to sort something out? Go to the bank and make up the work later that day.
    4.Allows workers to work in what they might consider a better environment (Want to have your music playing? No problems. Dont want to wear a tie? No problems.)

    1. Re:Forget cubicles, go for telecommuting by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 2, Funny
      I still dont understand why companies dont like telecommuting.

      It's because most middle-level managers get paid on the basis of how many employees they have under them. In order to increase their salary, they prefer to have lots and lots of inefficient and unproductive employees rather than only a few efficient and productive ones.

      It's called 'empire building'.

  40. A little slow, ain't he? by Tom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It took him that long? For all I know, he and some corporate PHBs (who themselves, of course, have nice little offices) were the only ones who ever thought cubicles are a good idea.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  41. Re:IF cubes are so great... by anubi · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yeh, I know what you mean.

    One company I used to work for thought cubicles were great. I guess managers liked seeing their engineers all boxed up in rows like a barn full of laying hens.

    Problem was I was productive in the lab, not in a cubicle. I didn't last long there.

    Funny, managers want engineers with "people skills", then think that holing us up in an enclosure similar to a bathroom stall is going to encourage productivity?

    There are not many things I can do in a cubicle-sized stall. Maybe testing efficacy of different laxatives, but thats about it.

    I figured such insight probably is similar to one who sees a beautiful report coming from a printer, buys that printer, takes it to the office, sets it up, and expects more fine work to come from the slot on the side of the machine.... completely unaware that the printer was hooked to a computer at the showroom.

    I know my parable looks ludicrous, but often appears to be the Occam's razor solution for what I observe.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  42. Speaking of Dilbert... by RetiredMidn · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This is a bit OT, but what the hell...

    In the 80's, I worked for a Major Software Company that is now little more than a brand name for a larger company. We had recently moved into a brand new building carefully designed for developers (i.e., adequate power and network connectivity, server areas), which happened to implement a strong preference for private offices (although some space was left open for potential cubicle space.

    Enter a new CTO, who expresses a disdain for private offices, and embarks on a plan to double- and triple-up people in the former private offices, and pack cubicles into any available open space (including underneath open stair cases). Morale drops.

    Almost immediately said CTO takes over the largest conference room on our floor, which can seat 20 comfortably and pack in 40 or more for a big meeting, and which happens to have a river view, as his private office! And then knocks down a wall and takes over the adjoining former single office as well! Morale tanks.

    You can't make this stuff up.

  43. Dilbert comic by nickyj · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dilbert complains to the PHB, "Just as I thought, my cubicle is two inches smaller today than yesterday!" PHB replies, "We installed real-time status adjusters in the cubicle walls. Sensors monitor your work and adjust the cubicle size according to your value." In frame three, co-workers sit in milk-crate sized cubicles as Wally says, "It's amazing how fast you get used to it."

    I can't find the original comic, but I have it printed out and stuck up on my cubical wall.

    --
    Causing Chaos Everywhere,
    Nik J.
    The strange world of a loner, in a populous city, drowning in society
  44. Re:I do one better... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I SSH to my home box and run a browser on my system by forwarding X through the tunnel - everything is encrypted and no logs are kept on my system at work. Browsing is a little slower but not unbearable if I compress the stream.

    If you want to avoid the huge honking X overhead, forward your squid proxy port instead:

    ssh -C -L 3128:localhost:3128 your_home_machine sleep 28800

    .. and then, at home, run a squid on 3128 (configured in a way to be only accessible "locally").

    At work, configure a localhost:3128 as your proxy.

    It will still be slower than if you went through your employer's proxy, but not quite as slow as forwarding X.