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Interview With Cryptographer Elonka Dunin

An anonymous reader writes "Whitedust is running a very interesting article with the DEF CON speaker and cryptographer Elonka Dunin. The article covers her career and specifically her involvement with the CIA and other US Military agencies."

35 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. So by poeidon1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    is quantum cryptography being persued in the military?

    --
    They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me. -Nathaniel Lee
    1. Re:So by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Funny
      > is quantum cryptography being persued in the military?

      Yes and no.

    2. Re:So by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only the cat knows, and if you ask, it might kill him.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    3. Re:So by Amouth · · Score: 2, Funny

      hold on let me turn it off......

      maybe

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    4. Re:So by slabbe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Looking for a job?
      Dunno about the military and quantum cryptography, but the NSA are looking for people doing quantum-computing related research, maybe chryptography fit in?
      http://aip.jobcontrolcenter.com/jobdetail.cfm?job= 2296154

    5. Re:So by Jokerz17 · · Score: 3, Funny

      AH, so the cat does NOT have top secret clearance!

      He does... and he doesn't.

  2. Elonka by HackHackBoom · · Score: 5, Informative

    I had the pleasure of working with Elonka through her primary employer, Simutronics for a few months... She's brilliant and I think her work in cryptography as it relates to the subject matter of this article is top notch.

    --


    "It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"

    1. Re:Elonka by pilgrim23 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      About a year or two ago I had a discussion with this lady on a subject of mutual interest: the Voynich Manuscript; a medeval bit of encryption. Her knowledge of that obscurity caught my curiousity so I looked her up. A MOST impressive curicula vitae there...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    2. Re:Elonka by Joiseybill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I also worked with Simutronics for a while - apparently during the period she was working out of St. Louis apartments. I never knew that at the time. As a GameHost for GemStone III, I always thought that they ran a very slick, professional site. We had several developers,had mandatory weekly meetings (online) to discuss game developments and maintenance and they ran 24/7/365 operations. I was amazed to see a MMORPG that could handle 1000+ average simultaneous users, and I was proud to have redundant dial-up access through both AOL and CompuServe because AOL went down so much. I was there for the breakaway transition, but left before they became play.com. I assumed they had a fancy office campus outside St. Louis right from the beginning. (For the younger among us, this was the time when those ISPs were charging $3 per hour -or much more on GEnie- for people to connect and play these games.) I even considered applying and moving there to work. (I got married instead.) I didn't think Elonka (then SimuElonka) was on-board from the beginning. I guess that shows how little a peon like me really knew about the business end. I was supervised by GameMasters and a management-type guy called SimuJosh. I only met Elonka (virtually) once or twice in our weekly meetings. I thought she was more involved with DragonRealms and another murder-mystery type game. Since those days, I have also become interested in crypto - now back in school and working on my MS with a concentration in security. Elonka is definitely one of the most knowledgeable in the field - and she has remained relatively accessible, as opposed to some elite acadmics. Before this article, I had read about Elonka's public work & glanced at her website but I never put the name together. Thanks for bringing this all together for me SlashDot!

  3. A Beautiful Mind? by indyweb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looks like she's the real thing, even makes Russell Crowe seem boring.

    1. Re:A Beautiful Mind? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The movie's portrayal of Nash was cleaned up quite a bit -- in reality he was even crazier than Crowe portrayed him, and not at all a sympathetic character. The nice thing about people like Dunin is that they demonstrate to the world that people can be true geniuses without falling into any of the "mad scientist" or "hopeless social outcast" stereotypes.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  4. Background info by yppiz · · Score: 5, Informative
    There's also a pretty good Wikipedia entry for her.

    --Pat

    1. Re:Background info by MrNougat · · Score: 4, Informative

      And here's her Wikipedia user page, and her own website.

      --
      Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  5. She is pretty amazing by Mortisoul · · Score: 3, Interesting

    After meeting her both at defcon and when she was kind enough to come and speak at a couple of the UMR ACM meetings she is completely brilliant. I wish her the best of luck with the final parts of the sculpture as well as success with her game company. Good taste in sushi too :)

    1. Re:She is pretty amazing by Mortisoul · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have to meet her honestly. In a society which is slowly making its general population utterly stupid, through the stripping of funding from schools and the terrible ways most teachers are treated, finding someone who is kind, fun to be around, and amazingly brilliant is just too rare. Go to defcon when she speaks and then talk to her afterward if you don't your missing out.

  6. Very cool person ;) by 222 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I met elonka at a con a few years ago, and I can honestly say she's one of the coolest people to go out and have a few drinks with; very interesting conversations.

    Btw, its about time we caught another movie ;), Jay

    1. Re:Very cool person ;) by dr_dank · · Score: 4, Funny

      Were any of the DC geeks trying to pull that cheesy yawning-arm-stretch maneuver on Elonka Dunin at the movie?

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  7. Potential Problem by nmccart · · Score: 4, Funny

    Quantum cryptography is neat, to be sure, but what happens if the cat dies?

    --
    Funny sigs make your Karma go down.
    1. Re:Potential Problem by pegr · · Score: 4, Funny

      Quantum cryptography is neat, to be sure, but what happens if the cat dies?

       
      As long as you don't look, no problem!

  8. The Corporation by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The CIA is not supposed to be a "military agency". It was originally supposed to be an assassination agency supporting US military overthrow of enemy governments during WWII, when it was the "Office of Special Services". When it was converted to the CIA, its postwar role was supposed to be foreign intelligence gathering, with domestic operations confined to centrally processing government intelligence information. None of its operations are supposed to be military, as in tactical violence against strategic targets to support government policies.

    The CIA is not supposed to trade guns for cocaine or peddle them in the US, or work with the mafia to fund operations secret from Congress, either.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:The Corporation by 0ptix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nor is the CIA really into cryptography. Yes they need a few cryptographers here and there but when I went to them, looking for a job (in the field of cryptography research) i was politly asked to go see their colegues over at the (very non-discript and unmarked) NSA booth over in the corner.

      The first time round when approaching the NSA booth I stupidly enough kept my (normal) british accent and was almost imediatly told to go see the GCHQ. (i.e. "get lost kid") So I walked off again and only came back when there was a new representative sitting behind the desk. This time I didnt bother mentioning my nationality and put on a nice generic american accent letting them assume my orginis were more... kosher. :-)

      Of course that interview went quite differently... "Oh yes! Well you've come to the right place then. We have a great program for you begining with several years of training where we rotate you through the variouse subfields teaching you all the newest techniques and methods you'll never hear about in academic circles... blablabla.... Just please sign here."

      somehow i just couldnt help but thinking of Faust... i wonder why...

      i got what i wanted though. a cool business card from the NSA math highering department and some email address printed on an old dotmatrix, cutout and stuck on the back. cloack n dagger n all that...

      Anyway if you really want do crypto work for the US gov. (or DOD in particular) then never mind the CIA. The NSA or the SigInt guys are who you really want to talk to.

      AFAIK of course. I mean how would a mere civilian and a FORIEGNER at that have any clue about whats going on over there... :-)

  9. In our midst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not only is she featured on Slashdot. She's also a member.

    1. Re:In our midst by Elonka · · Score: 5, Informative
      Ten to one says that the "anonymous reader" who submitted the article is none other than Elonka herself.

      I'll take that bet. ;) Wasn't me, and I didn't even know that the Whitedust interview had been posted, until the Simutronics CEO (David Whatley, another slashdotter) IMed me and said, "You are about to be slashdotted" (and no, it wasn't him either). A couple minutes after that, a bunch of other IMs flew in with similar warnings to batten down the web-server, and I've been dealing with the related deluge for the rest of the day. As slashdottings go though, it's been relatively light (only about 5000 visitors), probably because the Whitedust folks didn't actually put any links to my website in their interview. The traffic has been coming in from the secondary links in the /. thread, from my Wikipedia bio, and from Google.

      If I would have started the thread, you can be sure I would have linked it better, to my site, my company, and my upcoming book. ;) My guess is it was posted by someone from Whitedust.

      Elonka :)

  10. Steganography by Aspirator · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From TFA:
    And there was an extensive scan of images done by a team from the University of Michigan,
    looking through millions of internet locations, and then clustering computers together and
    running password dictionary attacks on anything that looked suspicious, but they never found
    a single thing.


    Given the prevalence of near GB files traversing the internet, and a payload of only a few kB,
    is there any reasonable expectation that one could find it if it did exist, let alone decrypt it?

  11. Elonka,should we be in constant fear of terrorism? by digitaldc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For emotional satisfaction, it has been helping out with the war on terrorism, and educating government agents about steganography and what types of codes that Al Qaeda might (or might not) be using.

    I would like to ask her if she feels that the amount of fear that people feel today about terrorism is justified? Is Elonka fearful of terrorist cells in our midst? Does she think that we are due for another attack?
    It would be interesting to know what she has to say about the 'War on Terrorism.'

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  12. Re:Elonka Dunin? by +InvaderSkoodge · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Nobody names their kid 'Elonka'"

    It's amazing how often parents make really poor choices when naming their children. For example, Yahoo's people search comes up with 82 occurances of people named Richard Head.

  13. Nope by hey! · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nobody names their kid "Elonka". I suspect if you decode E-L-O-N-K-A-D-U-N-I-N correctly that you'll find out her real name is Xenia Onatop or Alotta Fagina or something like that.

    More probably her real name is "LEONA UNKIND". Or, since this is Slashdot and sooner or later the question "hotness" comes up when any woman is discussed, you might want to click "ON A NUDE LINK", and hope you don't get "A NODE UNLINK", or if she's feeling a bit waspish you may be in for "A DUNK ONLINE".

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  14. Re:Elonka Dunin? by szobatudos · · Score: 2, Informative

    for Elonka in US not, but for Ilonka in Poland, yes. That is Helen if you are a native English speaker... E is just for correct pronunciation.

  15. I couldn't resist by bdleonard · · Score: 2, Funny

    This seems like the perfect place for a Bob The Angry Flower link http://www.angryflower.com/schrod.gif

  16. doubt that she has given it that much thought by barutanseijin · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Her remark about how "helping out with the war on terrorism" gives her the warm fuzzies suggests to me that she has either absorbed the ambient paranoia or that she is cynically exploiting it. Considering that AQ is a very loose network of Anti-Western religious fanatics, some of them in hiding off the grid, and not a monolithic, top-down organisation of Super-Baddies, I'd guess the latter. Even if she's only saying it gives her the warm fuzzies because she thinks she has to say that to maintain her status with the CIA, it doesn't say a whole lot for her. After all, there are plenty of US soldiers in Iraq who aren't afraid to speak their minds.

    Yes, she's clever. But perhaps not much more than that. Colour me unimpressed.

  17. who? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm interested in cryptography, but could someobody explain to me why anyone should care about this person? Most of the posts so far are something like, "She's so cool! I met her!" or "I went on a date with her, look at me!" But what has she done that is significant other than socializing with the nerds of slashdot? Are there any widely-implemented algorithms to her name? Did she find a novel way to break a cipher? Will I find theories or equations named after her in a crypto textbook?

    I'm hoping someone can post what it is that makes her famous, other than being a girl in one of the geekiest parts domains of CS.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  18. you "ph33r" Elonka by StankDawg · · Score: 3, Informative

    A lot of people are saying some pretty borderline rude things about someone they don't know (not unusual for /.) so let me state that she is, in fact, one of the nicest and most "normal" people I have ever met. I have known Elonka for quite some time. We meet up a couple of times each year at miscellaneous conferences and I consider her a good friend. The fact that she doesn't answer some of these comments probably makes her more "normal" than most of you now doesn't it?

    To make my post more self-promoting, I will point readers to 2 episodes of Binary Revolution Radio that she was on Here and Here.

    As far as the personal questions, how about you STFU and GTFO because it is NOYGDB? kthxbye!

    --
    --- The revolution will be digitized! - http://www.binrev.com/ ---
  19. Re:Elonka Dunin? by Elonka · · Score: 2, Informative
    for Elonka in US not, but for Ilonka in Poland, yes. That is Helen if you are a native English speaker... E is just for correct pronunciation.

    Yup, you get the prize for coming closest, though I got a kick out of the various anagrams, too. :)

    For the record (and those not interested in genealogy or name origins can stop reading now), it's my real birth name, and is Hungarian. I was named after my maternal grandmother, Ilona Pazman. The "ka" is a diminutive suffix (like in Spanish, "Juan" will become Juanito or Juanita when used with a child), and the "E" was substituted as an Americanized spelling so that it would be pronounced correctly. And yes, it means "Helen" which is Greek for "light" or "shining", as in "Hellenic culture".

    Elonka :)

  20. Re:Any one know her AFSC? by Elonka · · Score: 2, Informative
    Anyone know her AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code)?

    325x1

    Elonka :)

  21. Re:Elonka,should we be in constant fear of terrori by Elonka · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I can't speak for Elonka, but when I was helping (a little) with the codes book which is going to be published Real Soon Now, I got the extremely strong impression that, about Iraq at any rate, she was strongly in favour of robust, informed debate. She filled the book with quotes about the moral and pragmatic issues of war from multiple perspectives for precisely that reason.

    I couldn't have put it any better myself. You got it exactly right, and I'm glad that that came through, at least to you, one of my contributors who saw an early draft . Unfortunately, the publisher edited out some of my stronger comments from the book's introduction (I may re-post them via my blog, I haven't decided yet), but all of the plaintext (and encrypted!) quotes are still there, so the opinions that I wanted represented, still are. ;)

    Elonka :)

    (Answer to Cryptogram #52: "When I am abroad, I always make it a rule never to criticize or attack the government of my own country. I make up for lost time when I come home." - Winston Churchill)