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Sony Decides Against Blu-Ray Downsampling
Paul Slocum writes "According to Ars Technica, Sony is now saying they will not use the Image Constraint Token and so movies will play on analog HDTV sets at full resolution. If HD-DVD does implement the analog downsampling, it's going to give Blu-ray a nice market advantage." From the article: "Sony's decision to not use the Image Constraint Token for the time being is meant to encourage the adoption of Blu-ray players. Launching a new product that would leave the thousands of analog HDTV owners out in the standard-definition cold could have proven to be a nightmare for Sony and the Blu-ray spec in general. Reports that 'Blu-ray discs don't look right on my HDTV' could result in consumers' switching allegiances to the competing HD DVD standard or postponing purchases of next-generation optical players altogether."
Just get rid of the DRM and we might have a decent product.
Sure.
:)
But if blu-ray takes off in the market, how long do you think downsampling will remain turned off?
If this wasn't a publicity stunt, it would be removed from the spec.
Gentoo Sucks
What they meant to say was "Sony Decides Against Blu-Ray Downsampling, for now..."
From the company that brought you every other proprietary technology on the planet and likes to subvert their users' computers with rootkits. People aren't THAT stupid. No, they probably are...
Sony has said that they do not intend to set the downsampling flag IN THE MOVIES THEY SELL. The capability still exists in the blu-ray standard.
According to the article, use of the "Image Constraint Token" is up to the studios. This announcement is only that Sony movies won't force down-sampling "for the foreseeable future". Other studios' movies could, since the players will still support it.
Welcome to consumer confusion.
The first taste is always free
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Let's hope that the other studios all follow suit for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
If not they will save me a bunch of money.
Sony Blu Ray Downsampling
HD-DVD Locks out old HDTVs
Sony says that they are doing this to promote the BluRay standard. Presumably, once HD-DVD is defeated, they'll be turning down-rezzing back on in their releases. First good reason to hope for a long, nasty, format war...
As for other content producers without a big vested interest in one format or the other, don't expect them to be so generous with their releases. If they set the flag, Sony's BluRay drives will obediently down-rez the analog output.
doesn't matter what they do, I'm still not buying
Unfortunately, most people complain about those evil corporations, yet still bend over and let them get screwed. Dispite Sony's rootkit deal, I'm willing to bet that PS3 will be sold out on the first day when it launches.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Why would I buy a player that's so broken it listens to a "output worse image quality lol kthx bi" bit? I already won't buy a player that listens to a "don't play me because I'm only for germany lol kthx bi" bit or a "don't skip me because I'm really important lol kthx bi" bit.
Sacred Bits are even worse than encrypted discs.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I'm rooting for Sony
But in Soviet Russia (and elsewhere), Sony roots you!
If HD DVDs come with all sorts of restrictions, people might as well just subscribe to flat-fee video-on-demand services. I know I will. DVDs will likely increasingly be used for special content (like pr0n), but even that will probably be played back through the computer, not a DVD player.
The way companies could make HD DVD a success at this point would be to get rid of all region coding and all DRM and lower prices a little; that way, people might be tempted to replace their current DVD libraries. But as it is, I'm not going to replace any of the DVDs I have with HD ones.
If they were taking ICT out of the players, I might agree.
They aren't.
They are leaving the capability there, and offering only the promise that the first Sony movies released will not use it. Another studio or Sony after a change of heart can and will use it.
Take it out of the damn player. There's no reason for it to exist unless they plan to use it.
It's not a firmware issue -- it's an issue determined on a per-title basis. The player has the capability to force downsampling, but these titles will not activate that capability.
Any future titles (or rereleases of the same titles) could have this flag enabled, and they would be downsampled. However, this wouldn't change your ability to watch any previously purchased discs at the higher resolution over analog.
Is that flag just a bit? Is it the "evil bit"?
I would not mind having a higher storage disk for storing computer files (but nowadays, one can just buy a USB hardrive for moving or backing up files), but having a locked restricted format that won't give me any benifits more than a standard DVD for movies or media (and is actually designed to degrade my eperience if I don't have the newest equipment)... man, I hope both these bastard fucking formats die a horrible death. I don't care which one is better! This isn't like VHS or Beta, because VHS and Beta weren't activly trying to restrict what I am able to do on machines I own with media that I own, or force me to purchase a new television to play movies.
This seems to be a interesting tactic by Sony. I can already see the class action lawsuit against the studios who implement the Token by users of older HDTVs. In fact there WILL be a lawsuit over this. Chances are also pretty good that this type of functionality will be ruled against in the US. Here is the scenario:
I buy a new HD-DVD so I can watch King Kong in HD.
I place the disc in my new Toshiba HD-DVD player.
I try to play the HD movie on my slightly older Toshiba HD TV.
I do not get to watch my HD movie that I paid for.
Now if I am the consumer, am not told in VERY plain language that my TV will not play the movie in HD, I am now being misled.
At this point there are all sorts of wonderful legal options to pursue. I can sue the maker of the Player for implementing the Token, which I will. I can also sue the studio for enabling the Token, which I will also do. A case for collusion could also be made (let's get everyone to buy new TVs again).
Since Sony would make the player, the TV, and the movie, one stop shopping for a major lawsuit.
Bring it on!
Now look at them. Some of the most pretty laptops on the market, burdened with all the extra cost of paying for proprietary formats and slots. They are pushing formats not to make the consumers life easier, but to insure that the executives can afford drugs and boys/girls.
What mad the electronics market thrive was that one could plug an RCA cable from any decent device to any other decent device and get reasonable results. No need to hire an MSCE person to hook up the TV to the video player. No worry about if the disc was acually made for this region. DVD won on convinence, and the fact that VCR was getting complex, but why is it that I cannot just put a DVD in and watch a movie? Why can't I fast foward over the stuff I dont' want to see.
Shoudn't design be for the sake of the person paying, or is it that consumers no longer are a source of profit on thier own? Is it that Dell makes money only becuase of MS and AOL/TW kickbacks? Is it that Sony does not expect to make any money of the players, but only on the content, which will be so chock full of advertisements that it will be just like watching a tv program? Why can't movie theatres make a profit on ticket sales and concesions? It is because the studios are so greedy that they each up all the sales, yet, because of the rational fear that the major releases are crap compared to the indepdent, won't fund digigtal distribution which might singnificantly increased profits, if only they would stop letting the likes of Michael Bay make films and tom cruise appear in them.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I love comments like this. You are essentially saying "I hate how companies try to stop people from illegally distributing their copyrighted words, but it doesn't matter because I just download it anyway"
If they are smart it will last until most of the analog Sets have died off and been replaced by digital ones. That would depend on the expected lifetime of the analog sets. You don't have to wait till they are all dead, just until the Digital sets have hit a critical mass. Then the people with the old analog sets will be told that their old movies will play just fine, but anything new requires a fully digital set and compatible player. With fewer analog players still in the field, there will be fewer people to complain.
Changing technology has been a real boon for studios. Now they can sell content that has already made its profit all over again. And again. Forever. Copyright is a deal between the public and the content creator - we give you a temporary monopoly in exchange for the creation. That has been perverted by a huge lobbying effort over the years.
Changing technology has also been a boon for pirates. It is possible to make perfect copies for nearly no cost.
It seems a bit hypocritical for studios to eagerly profit from new technology while complaining about piracy. Especially when copyright has been tilted more and more in their favor until now it is practically Forever.
Man, you really need that seminar!
A great plot summary and video preview of the "offensive" part (wmv) is available from (I'm not kidding) the Parents Television Council:
Don't miss PTC's "explicit" and "EXTREMELY offensive" description of each controversial scene from that episode: For more laughs, check out their online FTC Complaint Form which probably contributed to the fine and ban.TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
DVD's been mainstream for what, 6-7 years at most? And still there are many many people who haven't adjusted. So in another year they're introducing something else? DVD is a flash in the pan compared to VHS, which is still in wide use today.
The change in quality will be almost negligble. People will only feel cheated paying more and hardly being able to tell the difference.
It would make much more sense to switch to DivX on normal capacity DVDs, which is higher quality and much smaller, that way you can fit more on a single DVD, which I think is one of the more important things we need with a new format.
I don't see how anyone can be excited by Blu-Ray or HDDVD for movies, and you're kidding yourself if you are. More space isn't going to help movies that much at this stage. Yes, it will be in a higher resolution, yes, it will be crisper, but it will be at best half the difference between VHS and DVD. Many people may not even be able to tell the difference.
Games and data storage, yes, but it's too soon as the PS3 is showing. It would be better to wait a little longer to make sure that it can be distributed more cost effectively, and maybe even improve it.
DivX DVDs are a much better idea, in my opinion.
EpiAdv - if you like Pokey the Penguin, try this comic!
This situtation is very similar to Microsoft's forced downsampling of HD content on non-HDCP-compliant monitors (read: basically every monitor on the market today). So will Microsoft relax the HDCP requirement for Vista? Will Hollywood even let them?
My guess is no, because DVI without HDCP is digital, and Hollywood is obsessed with the lack of generational loss when copying digital data. "Oh noes, the pirates will be able to get an unencumbered HD signal!" As if that's materially worsse than getting an unencumbered SD signal, what with all the camcorder jobs floating around the net...
it's only Sony that's not going to use the flag. Other studios are free to do as they wish.
Disney, Fox, and Paramount are apparently going along with Sony in not using the downsampling flag on BD-Video launch titles. Among MPAA member studios, this leaves Warner and Universal.
Region 1: North America, South America, Japan and East Asia (excluding China)
Region 2: Europe and Africa
Region 3: India, China, Russia, and all other countries.
Note how they put China and Russia, two countries with lax copyright controls, in the same region.
This means that PS3s, at least as Blu-Ray players, will be the same in Japan as they are in the US, making them much more inviting as imports if they were to launch earlier in Japan as opposed to everywhere else.
Ultimate AV magazine also got to see a preview of Blu-Ray. Here are the important points:
That is, they can always turn it on in the future on a per-title basis.)
The Blu-Ray group also summarized what they announced at CeBit in this PDF.
Highlights:
content. (This had been something that was supposed to be delayed in the hardware).
A source at a studio has said that current "Special Edition" content for Blu-Ray discs is being ported over to a High Def signal. It won't be only the movies that are in HD.
Netflix will be carrying both Blu-Ray and Hd-DVD discs at launch.
If you have a video card that says it will support HDCP, you may be disappointed. It looks like no current video cards on the market will really support HDCP. From Ars: "With regards to shipping cards, they are correct: no matter what a box's feature list may say, no video card supports HDCP fully at this time. Why? They have not been completely programmed. Until the specifications for the access control system are completely finished, implementing pro
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
Sony assures us that, at least for now, it won't discriminate against us. So we should trust them and give them our money.
You do as you choose, Sony has yet to prove to me that it's anything better than a script kiddie. One that steals your wallet as well as riffling your computer.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The HDCP spec discloses a way to revoke the ability of devices with a given manufacturer ID to play encrypted video. The DVI decoder chip used in the Spatz-Tech converter box might be the first HDCP product revoked.
The future I'm being shown is not to my liking. I refuse to play this game anymore. Over the years, I bought LPs, tapes, CDs, VHS tapes, Beta tapes, and ultimately DVDs. I won't do it anymore. I will hopefully get years out of my existing hardware, but when it breaks, I'm done. When the cable providers no longer transmit analog TV signals, my set will likely go to the dumpster. I refuse to deal with media that requires me to play their game. There are too many other ways for me to spend my time. As it is, I'm down to two TV shows anyway. Giving it up for good won't be difficult.
I stopped going to the movie theater two years ago, and quit buying DVDs about the same time. I stopped buying CDs four. It's easy to quit. I wish more people would back up their feelings with actions. If more did, the media producers would have no choice but to listen. As it is, the sheep will continue to play the no-win game the media producers graciously allow you to spend money to play. Have fun.
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
(Smash amp, burn guitar, take home the groupies)
Reports that 'Blu-ray discs don't look right on my HDTV' could result in consumers' switching allegiances to the competing HD DVD standard or postponing purchases of next-generation optical players altogether.
What would switching to HD-DVD accomplish? They're doing the same thing with analog signals.
I think consumers will be postponing purchases anyway because they'd rather wait for the format war to end.
Higher resolutions do not immediately mean a massive increase in quality.
Most people think of resolutions in terms of 3D Polygonal games, where higher resolutions means less "jaggies" or blurry anti-aliased edges.
Everything on DVD is "Pre-blended" as such in a much more efficent way than polygons ever will be. I don't know if you've ever notived how even analog television can pull off much more convincing "edges" than any pre-render has done.
Higher resolutions mean it will be a little less blurred. But in practice, DVD is already high quality. There is a point for which resolutions become difficult for an untrained eye to distinguish. HD lies within that spectrum, but at the end of it.
On most TVs, it will be difficult to tell the resolution. On very large screen TVs, it most certainly is a benefit. But for most of us, it's a small performance increase as opposed to the relatively large one DVDs offered, and even that had it's critics.
EpiAdv - if you like Pokey the Penguin, try this comic!
After the beta, minidisc.net, memorystick, memorystick pro, atrac, rootkit failures/debacles, Sony realises it cannot force crap onto consumers for very long.
About bloody time.
What a brilliant scam. Put a big smile on their face, take their money then fuck them over. And some of you will eat it up like cherry cheesecake.
I know the government is mandating that broadcasters switch to digital transmission over the air, and all HDTV broadcast in US is digital anyway (there are analog HDTV broadcast standards, but they aren't used in the US). Also, they now require TVs 36" and over to support digital signals without a digital to analog converter, but I don't think they require any DRM. The main initiative for mandatory DRM that I'm aware of was the Broadcast Flag, which was luckily struck down (but may not be gone for good).
The issue here is more with the connection between the recorder and the monitor. Although digital connections are becoming more common, AFAIK, analog component cables are currently the most common way to hook up DVD players and set top boxes to an HD Television. In order to close the analog hole, sending HD content over component cables or VGA cables would need to be banned. As far as I know, no legislation exists mandating this yet, but wouldn't be surprised if someone is trying.
DRM is not for preventing piracy. Piracy is just being used as the whipping boy to try to justify DRM and the DMCA law. They know they can't defeat piracy because it takes a system that is locked absolutely 100% perfectly, and that just can't exist. Instead, the purpose of DRM is to provide the content industry with a means to restrict things in specific ways so you have to pay them more to get what you previously enjoyed for one price before. DRM doesn't do everything the content industry wants, just yet, but they will continue to use the existance of piracy to keep asking for more DRM (Digital Restriction Marketing, or Doubling Revenues Monthly, depending on which side you are on). Eventually you'll have to pay-per-view on the disks you actually buy. And then after that, they'll charge you for even doing things like rewinding to replay an interesting scene. You'll see more advertising that you can't skip, eventually even embedded in the middle of the movie. And later, that advertising will even require you to click "Buy now" or "Not interested" before the movie resumes. A small percentage of people might even find a way to defeat the DRM. But the DMCA storm troopers will be activated enough to maintain just enough terror level to keep that percentage small. But of DRM even fails to get any revenue at all from 10% of the population, it won't matter because it will have quadrupled the revenues from the other 90%.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
How many times is this going to be misreported? This is Sony Pictures saying that they won't use the Image Constraint token. It is not Sony Consumer Electronics saying that the ICT won't exist in Blu-Ray. Other movie studios are welcome to use the ICT on Blu-ray, or even use it or not on disc-by-disc basis. Fox has made a similar announcement about HD-DVD: they won't use the ICT on their HD-DVD movies. Again: blu-ray still has the Image Constraint Token, and every movie studio is welcome to enable it or not on any disc they choose.