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Beware Your Online Presence
Mz6 wrote to mention an article in the NY Daily News stating that an increasing number of employers are Googling their prospective employees during the interview/hiring process. From the article: "'A friend of mine posted a picture of me on My Space with my eyes half closed and a caption that suggests I've smoked something illegal,' says Kluttz. While the caption was a joke, Kluttz now wonders whether the past two employers she interviewed with thought it was so funny. Both expressed interest in hiring Kluttz, but at the 11th hour went with someone else."
Don't use MySpace. Trust me, we'll all be better off when that fad has passed.
...oh. There isn't one.
He sounds a little paranoid, everybody gets passed over for jobs once in a while. Submit your resume elsewhere, life goes on.
I think this is made out to be more of a big deal than it really is. It's quite simple to prevent this from happening to you. Post "good stuff" under your real name, perhaps linked to a professional-sounding alias, and post other crap under another alias that you never link to your real name.
Would /you/ hire someone named "Kluttz"?
I'm glad Mz6 "wrote to mention" an article. Next time it would be helpful if he provided a link to go with the mention.
This guy's the limit!
Think about it. Wouldn't you like to know "as much as possible" about a person you are about to hire? Checking a real name on Google is, from that point of view, almost as natural as calling former employers to find out how you performed there (and why you quit). The "trick" is basically to use a alias when posting "stoned-looking" pictures.. It's easy to do a search for the name on the application, it's much harder to find out what the person applying actually has done online if he/she only use aliases and fake names (and other e-mail address than the one used on the application). Oh btw, unless it's obvious, a "home page" where you brag about law violations, drug use and tell the world that you have a political view that's likely to be viewed as "not very politically correct" also don't help you much..
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
The article is at http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/401069p-339 405c.html.
;)
(Persons googling for me can now see what a helpful individual I am!
I used to post all the pictures of myself smoking crack and heroin with captions listing my full legal name and social security number. But then I read on article that said that might not be so hot if your looking for a job. So I wised up and posted the pictures under the alias: uber-rocksmokeerdood69woot! No problems so far! hope this helps....
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -Hunter S. Thompson
There's nothing especially wrong or insidious about googling a prospective employee. I'd do it.
The larger problem is that not everyone realizes that the internet is *public*, not private, and that what you post online has the potential to stay around for a very long time.
If you don't want it googled, don't put it up. If your friend puts it up, tell them to take it down.
On the other hand, any employer who would refuse to hire someone based off of humorous content in a blog or on a personal webpage (or even due to radical political/religious views) is probably ignoring a large pool of good employees. A smart employer will realize that even clever, hardworking people look stoned sometimes.
What's in a Sig?
(by the way, yes I know the html sucks, we're working on a new site that has fully valid code...)
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
When I search my real name on Google, I'm continually amazed at how horribly out of date and esoteric the information is.
.fstab file on a LinuxPPC installation 6 years ago, I was vehemently anti-Windows at least as far back as 1999 and I used to watch Babylon 5 rather religiously during its original run. Since then I've stopped using my real name outside of personal communications because I saw that just this sort of thing would become a problem in the years to come.
Any employers will find that I had an interest in fixing an
I'm a firm believer in passive anonymity. I won't go to great lengths to hide who I really am, and have no problem with people I'm conversing with knowing my real name, but I make sure that any comments of mine end up archived under a pseudonym. Considering HR people are looking for applicants with 15 years of experience in Windows XP, I don't really trust them to do the mental math necessary to establish that the questionable rant of mine from 1995 they've taken issue with, was posted by me while I was still in middle school.
On the other hand...
I recently hired two guys based primarily on their online presence.
I was looking for a couple of people to do support. Both of them applied. I googled them. They both had blogs. Their blogs demonstrated that a) they could write well (their jobs involve providing support via email) b) that they had a bit of personality and c) that they were smart people, passionate about Linux (which is our focus).
I hired both these guys without ever meeting them face-to-face. Being able to google them, see what projects they've been involved in, get a feel for how they deal with other people (e.g. in mailing list posts, etc) helped me start getting a handle on them. These guys got their jobs over dozens of other candidates who had great resumes, but were 'invisible' on the web.
--
We're hiring Linux geeks
I wasn't bothered about the dope smoking, but I'll be damned if I hire somebody who lists Moulin Rouge as their eighth most favourite film ever!
</interviewer>
Honestly, I can't see a girl having a great time, then googling you and finding out you're a geek, then going, "Well darn, I found an nice, kind, witty, entertaining and all-around great guy. Too bad he's good with computers". Would you really want to date someone like that?
Right.. because MySpace is where potential employers look for information. "Let's see, Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. AHA!"
Or did you put a link to your profile in your resume?
Here's an idea: If you're wondering why an employer decided not to hire you, you could try asking them instead of Slashdot. I know it's hard to believe, but there might actually be more qualified people applying for the same jobs. It sucks getting passed over, and occasionally there could be illegitimate reasons, but for the most part you win some and you lose some. In the long run, the most productive course of action is probably to just keep looking, and tell your friend to take down the picture if you're paran^h^h^h^h^hconcerned.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Not entirely paranoid. I thought it was a well-known fact that employers Googled people when considering hiring them. I keep this in mind whenever I post anything that links me to my real name, though.
I know several girls who not only search the web for the name of someone they are considering as a "candidate for marriage" (which is anyone they consider dating) and not only do they do that, they also check the income for previous years which is publicly made available here in the tyrannical covert-government-torturing Norwegian regime. This is not fun to think or write about, but it is a present truth: Girls do (secretly) check your online record AND INCOME. And don't expect them to tell you anything except perhaps "I met someone else". Also, a friend of mine told me that he noticed a printout of his last years taxes lying on the desk in a (rich) girls fathers office and got dumped shortly after.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
This is a very valid point that I haven't heard anyone else mention. Most people tend to use the same (or at least similar) alias wherever they go on the internet. Often times a little digging can provide correlation between a name and online alias. It is sometimes quite amusing what people like to say when they think they are being anonymous.
For example, Googling for my real name will reveal some rather off-color comments about Linux (or Linsux as i called it) as well as many unprofessional rants and raves on mailing lists and usenet. Most of this was from 1998-1999. After that my real name dropped off of the net. Once I realized that these comments could come back to haunt me, I quickly moved all posts under my current alias. Fortunately doing a Google search on my alias returns more hits for a british comic book character than anything I've written with this name. If any employer is willing to go through hundreds of pages of results they can find things that i've said. However, i NEVER put any reference to my alias on any resume, ever.
Scott
Well then obviously they're doing you a service. They're saving you time in a pointless relationship. Do you want to marry some idiot who only cares about how rich you are? I mean, if someone's only going to marry me for money, or is going to be incredibly stereotyped against geeks, even attractive, personable ones they would otherwise date, I don't want to date them, and I assume you don't either.
> Assume anything sent electronically can be read by someone else and will NEVER be taken off the web
Yep, that is clear *now*.
It was not so clear in, say, 1984. Which was before the web, but not before usenet, and there are usenet archives going back that far.
Also, in those days, almost everyone posted under their real names. Home net access was not common, so almost everyone was online through their employer or university, and accounts were under real names.
It's not that I ever said anything I really wouldn't want seen. It's just that back then, most people weren't in the mindset of thinking about online communications as something that might be archived forever and searchable 20+ years later by absolutely anybody for any reason. Search engines didn't exist yet!
It's quite simple to prevent this from happening to you. Post "good stuff" under your real name, perhaps linked to a professional-sounding alias, and post other crap under another alias that you never link to your real name.
As others have already pointed out, it's difficult to make sure that every person in the world who has a photo of you won't post something that isn't very flattering. But even ignoring that for the moment, what consistutes "good stuff" in your mind is likely to change. Suppose you are a first-year student in grad school and you post something under your real name stating that your dream is to become a professor. Very noble, very "good stuff". Fast-forward several grueling years when you are burned out. Your goals have changed and academia doesn't sound so great. You start interviewing for companies and tell them during the interview that you have a strong interest in tackling today's technical problems.
After you leave, the people you interviewed with start googling around to see what they can dig up on you and come across this thing you wrote many years earlier. Now there's doubt in their mind. Are you looking at an industrial position because you didn't get a postdoc? Are you just looking to make some big bucks in the private sector for five years before returning to what you love -- academia? Maybe I trust you and realize that your priorities have changed. How do I know they won't change back? You wrote so eloquently about the fact that your life-long dream was to become a professor a few years ago. How much do I want to bet that you won't dream this way again?
And what about posting your politicial, philosophical, or personal beliefs on the web? You write a well-thought-out essay about a woman's right to choose and your pro-life potential-employer finds it. You may think that's "good stuff" but your employer sure doesn't. You're making this way too simple. The article brings up a very good point. You are unwise to dismiss it as "someone else's problem" so easily, my friend.
GMD
watch this
I don't have an extremely common name, but it's common enough. When I google myself, none of the results on the first page are me. One of them has the same middle initial, and one of them even has a similar bio (birthplace and childhood). Someone might find me if they search my name combined with other associations, but not easily. If I google my name and my university I find another (more recent) student with my name.
Unless you have a very unique name or you're dumb enough to put your full name in your public myspace profile, you probably don't have a lot to worry about.
For a small fee, you can make your voter registration information private.
I didn't know this until recently and was having a lot of GREAT interviews, followed by no callbacks. Changed my party registration and got hired on the very next interview. Coincidence? I think not.
Contact your local County Clerk and have your voter registration information made private TODAY.
I tell my clients to run a Google Groups search for my last name and technology of their choice.
... I wish you good health and much prosperity,. Leonid S. Knyshov ...
... Mr. Knyshov appreciates your time spent reading this. ...
:-).
1000+ articles posted in my area of expertise.
Google itself links me to some seriously fun stuff. First link just happens to point to my Amazon profile. I consider that as VERY lucky as that's a page I can modify as I see fit.
Here is you will see when you search for "Knyshov" on Google:
Amazon.com: Profile For Leonid Knyshov: ReviewsLeonid Knyshov "World-class computer expert" (Fremont, CA USA) (REAL NAME)
www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/ A3P7EVPCSMPGI6?_encoding=UTF8 - 66k - Cached - Similar pages
Amazon.com: Profile for Leonid KnyshovLeonid S. Knyshov is a computer genius who is typically employed as a Sr. Network Systems Security
www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A3P7EVPCSMPGI6 - 43k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.amazon.com ]
A few links below that, however, I am linked to insecure.org which shows my HP-UX exploit from 1997. That can be good or bad. Good - shows that I knew how to find original exploits 9 years ago. Bad - I don't actively advertise that. Overall, I consider that as a good link.
Then there is a link that connects me to the SF Raves community. That again can be good or bad. Good - I can modify that page as I see fit and it shows that I am not a bookworm. Bad - it links me with nightlife of San Francisco, which may provoke questions about possible recreational drug usage, which I do not do.
Overall, that's basically the key. If the information you post is good, it definitely enhances credibility. I tell my clients to look for me on the Internet. For some reason, my 1994-2000 newsgroups history is not visible, which is not necessarily a bad thing
Leonid S. Knyshov
Find me on Quora
http://www.claimid.com/ Thought up by a couple of ibiblio guys, creating a link resume/profile seems the way to go.
Seems like with a little bit of work, you could set up a blog and
net presence that would make any employer jump to hire you.
If course it's all fiction, but with the proper links and all
you could make it pretty believable.
Enterprising individuals could do this for you for a fee.
So for the employers who think they are being so crafty,
there's a way for the unscrupulous job seeker to keep one step ahead.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
Problem is, once you've made that mistake its nigh impossible to go back and correct it in many cases. When I posted on usenet in the 80's the concept of a usenet archive that might be easily search seemed kind of out there. I think todays kids have a hard time understanding that in a few years they might not be proud of their hard partying lifestyle, etc.
Of course, today there's a whole new trail being developed by me thats beyond my control, but there's also others with my name and their own trails.
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
My girlfriend played Wow and got a little too cozy with another player. With a little bit of Real World knowledge about him I was able to find out quite a bit about him and his immediate family.
Even dug up a picture that might be of him, she wasn't pleased when I said that as she had never been sent a picture. Seems they weren't that cozy after all.
I'll leave it up to the reader to determine what one can do with such information.
In this case i dumped her, and sent him a message in Wow telling him he should feel free to meet up with her. I've got no interest in her now anyway.
It was rather revealing to toss out information which she knew, but had no idea how I could have found out about. She probably thinks I trolled through all her email, but she seemed really curious as I suspect most of the information passed between them was via Ventrilo (voice chat).
It's things like this that are piling up that are making people less fun, less interesting, more paranoid and a shitty society. We spend more time worrying that what we say may offend someone, say or do something that might "not look good to potential employers". That we bottle everything up, and then start shooting people to let it out. Poking fun at someone, or having a wild night out and taking a picture used to not cost people their jobs. Granted it's the internet and it would be better to keep things in your house amoungst your closest friends. We're in a state of fear in this country over things coming from all sides. There's places in this country that want cameras in people's apartments. Now you have to watch yourself all the time or some moron in a suit will find out about it and fire you or not hire you. They're getting too much control over everyone's lives.
He said "go to myspace, google. yahoo, MSN, hotjobs, anything that a potential employer may use, and make sure that anything that shows up is accurate"
If someone online is posting false info on you, then call the service and demand its removal, hire a lawyer if necessary.
For fun, I Googled myself and my wife. Turns out my wife's a basketball player, a corporate credit services clerk, principal of some elementary school, a movie actress and all sorts of other things, since her name is rather common. No one's going to succeed in performing a background check on her via Google. Maybe 2-5% of the links turned up on Google had anything to do with her. She simply doesn't have a web presence that stands out.
I, on the other hand, have a comparitively significant web presence and a unique name. I get over 9,000 hits on Google, and at least most of the links on the first 20-30 pages are something to do with me personally. I've always been aware that anything I did on USENET or mailing lists was essentially "in public," though, and I have no worries that my web presence will have anything other than a positive impact on any future job search I might have. Not that I intend to leave my employer any time soon.
--JoeProgram Intellivision!
Yup, there it is (scroll down).
http://www.myspace.com/comeoncolleen
"Problem is, once you've made that mistake its nigh impossible to go back and correct it in many cases. When I posted on usenet in the 80's the concept of a usenet archive that might be easily search seemed kind of out there. I think todays kids have a hard time understanding that in a few years they might not be proud of their hard partying lifestyle, etc."
It's a dangeroug message to send out there. Soon, you won't allowed to make any mistakes before the expectation of "pefection" is not met and you can't get a job anywhere. People aren't perfect and all the internet does is to show that. It's a dumb idea to use it to measure people. "Oh my, it's a picture of him giving the finger to someone, let's not hire him." No wonder why people are so uptight and jackasses. All because a small minority that aren't as bright as they might think send a message down to their lackeys look for this stuff. What happened to work being an exchange of time for money, not signing your life away like it's become.
My last employer was a huge crook. "You'll live your life when I let you.". Is the message he sent. Every conference call was a forum for him to stand up and say "I'm better than you because I have money. That's why so and so had no right to talk down to me." Meanwhile he was paying people barely enough to survive on a 1099 though we were employees for work that was $40,000/year at minimum. Meanwhile insulting everyone everyday. Threatening to sue me when I filed unemployment. He fires me for refusing to do unreleated work at another site yet tells the UC that I was "self-employed". My previous employer was even worse. So you could see in my first two jobs out of college I've had the worst of the worst. So, my initial impression is worse than it should be. It's been a battle just to maintain basic dignity.
If her employers checked her myspace, they most certainly would have not hired her.
Comments from her myspace:
obviously (FTA): "hi, i'm colleen kluttz and i just smoked the. best. weed. everrrrrrr..."
"Best host ever! I like the part when you shake your boobies."
"pot brownies, colleen! POT BROWNIES!!!"
"if you lived here, i would have to quit my job and become a full time hang over nurse."
"i'd like to report that i just opened my purse at work and found a can of PBR inside. livin' large!!!" - PBR being Paps Blue Ribbon beer by the way
"chris's eyes = patriotic. stoned white and blue. come visit."
And the profile picture she picked herself that has her giving the finger to a camera doesn't help either.
If the incident in question (someone posted a pic of her looking high) was isolated, an employer might overlook it. But these comments suggest a heavy drinker/pot smoker. I personally don't care if someone drinks/smokes weed while not on the job, but these things in conjunction with the attitude that is expressed on her myspace is something more.
Let's see, the girl is hoping to marry this guy. Of course, she has a reprovable monetary motivation, but nonetheless, she is looking for a husband.
If the guy just wants to "pork" her for a while, then, by mere coincidence justice was made, as she actually dismissed a guy who was anyway a bad candidate for marriage.
Are you the same Scott Swindells that did some work for distributed.net back in 2000? If so, your strategy isn't working.
Simple solution: Educate your friend(s) on on-line privacy issues and teach them basic security skills like using http://gnupg.org/ to encrypt your e-mail while you are at it.
Uh, that dosn't sound very simple at all.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Most smart employers will do a backround check on their employees. I know I would if I were the employer.
Consider the fact that Google might sell your information to employers, and it's quite clear that employers already know as much as they need to know about you.
I don't know if the fact that you've smoked marijuana once or twice is going to make a difference, because most people in the world have tried it before. I think your lifestyle DOES matter to employers. I think your culture DOES matter to employers. I think if you want to work in certain places you have to adapt to the lifestyle and culture of those places.
So while I may think that judging a person on one issue is not very intelligent, there entire profile of a persons personality type and lifestyle does show if the person will be a good worker, or what kinda worker they'll be. For certain jobs being a marijuana smoker is a plus, if you want to be a musician, an artist, a writer, or just an innovator type. If you want to be an engineer, a manager, or deal with mission critical decisions then you don't need to mess with any drugs of any sort. So a decision maker needs to be clean and an innovator needs to be high, at least some of the time.
my surname is unique in the world (afaik) and thus so is my wife's. she is in the news quite a bit as a semi-public figure, and so she has a google alert on our last name to keep track of news coming in that mentions her.
of course she gets "news alerts" when i "digg" something. how retarded is that.
MORTAR COMBAT!
I hate to break it to you, but there's nothing illegal about a landlord discriminating against a tenant for being a DJ and a rave promoter. Landlords have no obligation to rent to anybody. Generally speaking, the only grounds for which they can't discriminate against you are race, gender, and age, and, in a few states and communities, sexual orientation.
I have spent quite a bit of time on this issue as I have some experience in this area.
Without going into details, (but I know the slashdot crowd can find it, just with a whois on my domains) I was once accused of being a VAMPIRE in a court of law.
Cute, stupid, and it didn't really work for the defendant in the case.
The media had a blast with it. I was on CNN's legal section... I made "News of the odd" The Fax News, several papers, and Fark.
The problems began when a local reporter found my personal website, and went hunting. She found a list of "Pagan buttons and bumpersticker" joke that I thought were humorous and posted them out of context in the article.
Imagine my (very religious) grandmother looking at the paper and finding out that
1) I was pagan (admittedly, my grandfather who was a preacher knew, but asked that I never tell her)
2) I was a Vampire (at least according to some people)
and 3) That I was apparently a fan of throwing Christians to lions! (not true)
Problem is, it never goes away. Someone will ask about it from time to time, it comes up in interviews, and just in places I never expect it.
It is somewhat amusing for me... but can you imagine what would happen if someone were to link your name to something really nasty?
I wrote an article on the need for a "media blackout" type of period in regards to recent child porn arrests, where alledged child porn was found on someones machine by a 3rd party.
Inevitably the media learns of the situation (happened with a Best Buy tech who was snooping someones machine in Tennessee)and reports a name and the fact of the arrest.
Whether the individual is guilty or innocent no longer matters at that point. His (or her) name is indelibly linked to "(insert name) arrested on child porn allegations".
Your life would be OVER.
Now I think people who deal with that stuff are sick and need help and I am not defending them in any way! But I do think we are not far from a period where people are going to start suing to have their name scrubbed from certain places on the net. Good luck to them, because getting something off the net is like getting pee out of a pool.
Or was it "Un-ringing a bell"?
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
I've been arguing for a long time that completely free and effectively unaccountable speech on-line, particularly when made anonymously, is not necessarily a good thing, and on balance it may do a lot more harm than good. The principled people tend to shout/mod me down, but on this one I think it's the pragmatic view: freedom of speech is not an absolute right, and with that freedom when it does exist must come responsibility for what is spoken. As long as anyone can post anything about anyone on-line without so much as offering any right of reply, never mind (in practice) being subject to the usual legal comebacks in more serious cases, there will be abuses, and the consequences can be very serious, even life-changing. You can argue that the Internet is not a reliable source of information and people shouldn't trust random information for important decisions as much as you like, but in practice it will always cause problems, as we see here.
I've also argued for a long time that archiving of everything on an opt-out basis, as with things like the Wayback Machine and Google Groups, is not necessarily as much in the public interest as the advocates would have us believe. Again, while there is clearly merit in having a record of the general state of the world and useful content that might otherwise be lost, there is also scope for a lot of abuse. Perhaps more seriously, there can be a lot of accidental damage, maybe due to out-of-date information being assumed to be current, maybe because information that was never correct was posted at some stage and later retracted, but the archive didn't pick up the later correction. Of course, it would be best if some information were never on-line in the first place -- quite a lot of it, these days (ask the CIA ;-)) -- and archives that help themselves to content without permission exacerbate this problem, too.
I suspect that in the long run, the abuses will become so great that the fundamental nature of the Internet will have to change. Anonymity will simply not be allowed, with countries not prepared to play along being excluded from the network. Archiving will have to become opt-in. Cross-border regulation will be created to enable people to defend their reputations much more straightforwardly than is the case at present.
It's a shame, but the simple truth is that while the unregulated nature of the Internet has been an advantage in developing it, it has also led to serious problems that, at current rates, will bring about its demise just as fast. I'd rather accept putting my name to my words and standing by my comments than the continued and increasing presence of viruses, spam e-mails, phishing, websites offering incorrect (sometimes dangerously so) information, major crimes like fraud and identity theft being carried out behind the Internet's shield of anonymity, sickos distributing kiddie porn, and all the rest of it. Ultimately, you're never really anonymous on-line anyway, it's just a lot of effort to work out who you. Why continue with the delusion when it does this much damage?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
There really is nowhere near enough evidence to make this conclusion. Employers "express interest" and then change their minds "at the 11th hour" for lots of reasons. That's nowhere near evidence that they did so because of a joke image on your MySpace page.
Actually i planned on doing so since it was a signed lease and he had tricked me into handing it to him a day after it was signed. I wanted to persue it in court, however i had far too many things to do that a court case was simply something i didn't have the time or money for.. not to mention the fact that i needed to find a place to live..
MABASPLOOM!
I mean, with a name like Kluttz, chainsaw juggling, hand grenade handling, and brain surgery may not be for you.
Ditto. About once per month I get an email from headhunters for some company or another offering me an interview. They seem to alternate between SMB's / startups and mega-corps. Its nice to know my skill set is still (apparently) attractive. :-)
I can look at my server logs and see hits for "electrical engineering filetype: pdf" and so on on a weekly basis. I'm sure some of these are from folks looking to scavage and cobble together a resume (.edu domains are a bit of a giveaway), but I'm certain that I got two of the job offers I did because of my blog, and its contents. I mentioned some previous jobs and some of the neat things I was doing, and got offered a position mysteriously close to one of those.
I also would like to second the parent poster's comments. Google yourself, your email address, your IM nickname / game handle / whatever. See what comes up, and see what others are seeing about you.
On a slight aside while I'm thinking about it, you should also check your "real" identity as well. I've moved to several states for various jobs, and apparently am responsible for at least four different "Michael Hollinger" identities in the US. For each record, some piece of information is wrong (my middle initial seems to be the most common thing to screw up) but the addresses are all past addresses. Since this can affect credit applications (e.g. your next car, house, credit card rates, etc.) make sure this paints a positive picture of you as well!
Check a list of "Information Brokers" and see what they know about you (and if the info's correct!). - http://www.privacyrights.org/ar/infobrokers.htm
G'day,
~ Mike Hollinger
Michael C. Hollinger
Talking about hyping resumes :-). Don't know which google you are using, but when I simply click your link, it's only 819 hits. And when adding quotes around your name --there's plenty of Joe's out there-- it goes back to 735.
Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
This is how I see it, If I have something to say, or do, that I am asshamed of, then I need to fix that problem. If I say something on slashdot, or myspace.com, I stand behind it. If someone has objections to it, they will probably not get along with me during the course of my work for them. If I feel it, I say it. My slashdot, and Myspace accounts are VERY easily found with my name, and vice versa.
-William
God is everything science has yet to explain.
Medical records are supposed to be protected in the U.S. (cf. HIPAA), and any employer who tried to obtain your medical records illegally would be in pretty big trouble if they got caught.
Court records are another matter. If your psychiatrist made a report to the court concerning your progress in a shoplifting matter, that might be part of public record if the judge didn't have it sealed. But in that case, your criminal record is going to be a much bigger deal than the psychiatrist report.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
And good Lord! Have you been to her MySpace site? Take a look at some of those pictures of he flipping the camera off or "partying hardy". He site probably only "sealed the deal" on a decision already made 5 minute into the interview.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Your writing style leads me to believe that you wrote this book? bookid=10349
http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp
Am I correct?
Somebody has to edit the NAMBLA newsletter.
In about ten years, there will be millions of regretful twenty- and thirty-somthings, particularly women. The regret will be tied to two things: pictures on MySpace and tattoos. Both are permanent. Both seem cool/sexy at eighteen and both are neither at thirty.
I'm thankful that the trends of my youth involved only bad haircuts and cheesy clothing.
Medical Records? Ever heard of HIPAA? If you had even the shred of evidence that you were turned down for a job because they had medical information about you contained in medical records, then you would own that company. It would mean that somehow they obtained the information illegally and someone disclosed the information illegally. The criminal liability for disclosure of a medical record is in the neighborhood of about $250,000 for each offense. Plus punitive damages. You could probably sue the company that has the record, the company that obtained it to the company the doctor that disclosed it (assuming they used an P.I.). And I wouldn't sign an agreement stating that an employer could have medical records unless there was a valid reason. Anybody in the business of medical records is paranoid of disclosing a medical record. Oh, by the way, under HIPAA, you own your medical records. Depending on what is in your medical record and why they turned you down you could sue for a HIPAA violation, ADA and all sorts of discrimination statutues. Frankly, I don't know if I would want work at a place that was using medical records as to exclude people.
However, under some circustainces I can understand the use of a credit record. For example if you are going to be handling sensative information or you are going to be doing finanaces, then it makes sense check the credit record. However, if there is no criminal record or even the hint of fraud exclusion because someone has a bad credit record would not be fair -- just because someone fell on hard times (there is no way telling why their credit record may be bad) means they won't be a good employee.
Frankly, I don't care if a potential employer knows information about me -- I don't have anything to hide. If they don't like my political views, my credit history, medical history, etc., then oh well. It probably isn't exactly the job for me in the first place. If they want the information, then they can ask me, and I'll provide it, freely.
(To any future employer, feel free to ask me the information you want and I'll give it to you straight up.)
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
Not very long ago, I applied for a job doing computer support for a local community college. Everything went well, despite it being a rather "trying" experience, with multiple application forms to fill out, a couple of fairly extensive interviews and a hands-on proficiency test - but in the end, I was verbally offered a position. Then, 2 days later, I got another phone call, informing me that my hiring was being "put on hold" due to some new information that had come to light.
What happened was, I used to run a very popular computer bulletin board system. Almost 10 years ago, it was seized by the FBI under suspicion of copyright infringements occuring on it. After all of my equipment was held hostage for *2 years*, they decided to drop the whole case and give me everything back. A rather sheepish-faced federal agent actually came by my house after work with his station wagon filled up with all of my CDs, computers, monitors, etc. etc. and dropped it all over in my living room - apologizing for the whole incident (but still making me sign some type of waiver promising to absolve them of all responsibility, so I couldn't sue later). I thought this story was worthy of mention on my web site, since to this day, people occasionally ask me what ever happened to the BBS, etc. etc.
Well, the college apparently googled my name, found my web site, and read everything on it. (My BBS story wasn't exactly "top level" material on my site, so they had to click through at least 2 levels of menus and read 4 pages about it before they hit that part.) They were concerned about the incident, despite no charges ever being filed - and denied me employment based on it! (Only 2 days after the phone call telling me they were "reconsidering" hiring me, I got the standard rejection form letter in the mail, signed by the very guy I had just spoken to on the phone!)
Extremely irritating - because while, sure, I could just censor this info - I think it's a story worth telling. And furthermore, I'm not so sure I want to work for an employer who is that paranoid over something that speaks more about government's inefficiency and blundering than my own character.
But in the end, I was hired as I.T. Supervisor of a business paying considerably more than this community college anyway, so maybe everything happens for a reason after all.
... to someone famous. I'm sure an employer would have a hard time digging up your information if your name was Michael Bolton. By luck, my name happens to be the same as a professional baseball player from many years ago, so all my search results are obscure.
just take a look at the third result in the Google search. Very scary...just think what her rep is gonna be like now.
Pat
in the tyrannical covert-government-torturing Norwegian regime
Hi! I'm in the States. Could you get them to torture our covert government when they're done over there?
Dear Joe,
;-)
Welcome to Search Engine 101.
You should search for "Joe Zbiciak" and not Joe Zbiciak.
Doing the latter makes Google do an OR style search, resulting in a lot of results that just have Joe and Zbiciak in them, but not necessarily referring to you.
For instance, look at page 24 of the search link that you provided - only 3 results in that page are Joe Zbiciak. Most refer to some Joe and refer to some other Zbiciak. Given the number of Joes in this world, this is not surprising.
On the other hand, a search within quotes narrows it down just to your name. This seems to bring up 891 results, lower than what even my name would bring up.
Probably the best gift you could give a son or daughter is to give him/her a very common first and last name i.e. John Smith or Jane Smith. Obscurity by information overload seems like the easiest way to protect one's reputation.
ummmmmmmmm... if I was a employer I would look at myspace, prolly the best way to get to know someone really.
People control their own myspace page, so if you have pictures of yourself looking high on marijuana on your myspace page then it's your own fault for leaving it up there.
You can delete any comments people make about you on your own page, so if i saw someone's page and it had comments about them getting high I would assume they want the entire world to know they're a pothead.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
I don't know about other slashdotters but I could have used this maybe when I was first starting out on the Source (forerunner to Compuserve) with my Apple II and Hayes 300 bps modem (you can read the words as they roll in).. But that was 25 years ago. To say this is common knowledge is an understatement. The problem is nobody gets taught this shit in elementary, middle or high school. I've watched what I typed online at way back to BBS days and as a matter of course google myself once in a while. Everyone is googling, so if you don't you are just going to voluntarily lose an edge. What is scary now is the same thing will be happening with video, and worse will come when ubiquitous video gets ubiquitously tagged and stored. We are just at a point in time between back then and that future time. Only big difference is myspace becoming popular among teenagers, ascent of google, and massively litigous society being warped by doublethinking neocons. I think that's all I want to say with this login.
This is nothing new: the need to balance personal privacy against our urge to debate with and convince others is as old as parchment, and everyone knows that although Big Brother may not be watching you, he's damned sure reading what you wrote. If your opinions are different than your employer's, your union's, or your loved ones', it's sometimes necessary to publish them without attribution. The most common solution for this problem is to publish anonymously or with a pen name: many of America's most famous authors have done so, and that's what I've been doing for years(1).
On the one hand, having a pen name gives you anonymity for purposes of Google searches, and you can even build a reputation separate from your own under the pen name. Be careful with your other hand, though: not having your name online can backfire when an employer is looking for someone with "street cred" in online circles. As other posters have pointed out, experienced internet users are now climbing the corporate ladders and are making decisions about hiring and promotion: decisions that will be influenced by your online reputation as well as your meatspace personna.
What this boils down to is a short question you should ask yourself: "Am I a nice guy on the net"? You might think the answer is "Of Course!", but a few days of research will often change your self image, just as it did mine, and I made up my mind to be a lot more polite after I read some stuff I'd written years before.
If you're concerned about potential employers knowing too much or too little about you, the first thing to do is look at your own posts, especially old ones you've forgotten about, and ask yourself "If I heard this guy saying this into a cellphone while I'm on the subway, would I look forward to going to work with him"? In other words, you have to read what you've written with a stranger's eyes, and see if the words take on a new meaning.
We all know how easy it is to start flame wars or otherwise give offense, deliberately or not, and that's a fact of online life that I hope future managers will learn to account for when they read things I've written in the past. With that said, I'll also say that there's something about a keyboard and not being face to face that brings out the worst in a small percentage of Netizens: I don't know why, but some Internauts seem to think that the online world is the perfect place to vent their frustrations. This is understandable when you consider the alternatives: many Usenet posts would be grounds for dismissal if seen in a company newsletter, and grounds for divorce if seen by your wife!
Long story short: if you use the net as a safe place to play at being nasty and mean, keep your identity a secret. On the other hand, if you're proud of your writing and of your contributions to the net, by all means sign your name.
1.) In my case, there's a special reason involving a developmentally-dalayed child I don't choose to have potential employers aware of.
But what happens if you have the same name and surname as someone else ?
Myself, I have a fairly common portuguese name. And to add to this, I wear a
surname that was very common in the seventies when I was born. So my name is
quite common.
In the company I work for example, there are two people with the same name
as me. And one day, one of my friends told me that a guy with the same family
name and surname had created a web page repertoring most of us, our location
and what we did in life !
So what happens if someone googles for your name and surname and finds
information and/or posts from someone else than you ?
AWESOME! Now, all I have to do is create a network of websites which make positive reference to me, and how I've saved the lives of hundreds of projects for thousands of companies, how I once single-handedly wrote a program that ended the cold war, and how I have to beat off NASA/Pentagon/Sun Microsystems recruiters with a stick.
I get the feeling that my next prospective employer will be offering me a less-than-demeaning salary.
You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
Think about it. Wouldn't you like to know "as much as possible" about a person you are about to hire?
Not really.
If I was an employer, only two things would really concern me. One, the candidates competance and skill at performing the required labour, and two, the amount of compensation the candidate was willing to perform the labour for.
I really don't care if; you go out every night goofing off with your buddies, have a myspace account with silly pictures, vote for another political party, have an unusual sexual orientation, are religious, have extra curricular activities, can sing or dance, eat parsnips, use black pens, build rockets, watch anime etc, etc, etc....
As long as you can do the job you get paid to do, there isn't a whole lot else that concerns me. Maybe I'd have some limits. Clearly anything untoward done on company time is grounds for dismissal. Probably murdering someone outside office hours would make me think again about having you on company premises. But realistically, I not going to waste my time or money googling you on the internet, and if I found any HR person had done the same, they would quickly find their job vacant.
And a note to employees, if you work, or are looking to work for a company that does this; leave. Walk away now and never look back. You can do a hell of a lot better. Employment isn't bonded labour. It's about you selling your skills to someone who needs them. Anything else is a waste of your time.
May the Maths Be with you!
This is not new, the media just woke up to it. Probably because of recent controversies over MySpace and Facebook.
Before there was a web, employeers were searching USENET postings to see what applicants had been up to. The technical newsgroups are the most interesting as they can give some insight into how the person learns and how they might interact with others via email.
Is the applicant offering help to others? Are they asking questions? Are the questions getting better? A dumb question last year is a good thing as long as it isn't reapeated. A dumb question last week might indicate a problem, especially if it's about something they mention on their resume.
None of these things are end-all be-all evaluations of the person, especially since they are created over time. But they can give an interviewer some good ideas for questions.
It was one of my better writing efforts, I was mildly offended that the guy did not credit me just a little for my prosaic abilities. Oh well, the prospective employer went out of business shortly after not hiring me anyway. In retrospect, I wonder if my criticism of AEFA would have been even for this other business.
Things happen for a reason. I'm glad Slashdot came out when it did, or I would never get another shot at firing off a dig against AEFA and the hedonistic blatherskites that infest its tired walls.
True story:
t ml
.com site for a major company. In C#.
I am an independent consultant. CBN (Yes, that CBN) is locally-based. They also have some very interesting and cool tech projects going on. Their IT group (a spin off of CBN called Compass) is working with some great stuff. Anyway, I happened to get a lead on an assignment there that I might be able to fill.
In the phone interview, I was gold. "You sound like just what we are looking for."
In the follow up technical phone interview, same thing. "We want you to meet the manager you'll be working with for this project."
The in-person interview is going great too, until I get this question:
"Have you ever worked with XSLT and related technologies?"
To which my dumb ass replied:
"Sure that's what I've based my blog on."
And I immediately saw the stupidity of my answer. Why? Because not a week earlier, I was having a discussion with a friend about Christianity's reputation. The result of that conversation is found in an entry on my blog here:
http://tom.digitalelite.com/2005_08_23_08_01_00.h
After I mentioned my blog, every one of the interviewers asked for the address. I gave it to them, knowing that entry was still on the front page at the time. I knew it was over. Sure enough, within 6 hours I get the call from HR telling me they needed someone with more c# experience. Hmmm, my c# experience was discussed in two interviews before the in-person interview and wasn't a problem then. Oh well.
Two things of note about this:
1) I don't censor my blog. If someone doesn't like the content on the blog, we probably wouldn't have gotten along anyway. It's a sort of self-selecting barrier for people without a sense of humor.
2) There are plenty of good IT consulting gigs out there. I'm on one right now. Redoing a
Note that I'm not speaking ill of CBN here. I really don't care one way or the other about them. It must not've been a good fit. No big deal to me. I've heard that that are a great place to do a short-term gig, but it just wasn't the best place for me in the end.
-Tom
You just have to be able to handle someone making more money if they are worth more then you.
I used to think this way, but there's another factor to consider: Whether or not they are worth more than you isn't necessarily related to whether or not you think they're worth more than you, and neither are necessarily related to whether your boss thinks they're worth more than you. So what you should say is: You just have to be able to handle someone making more money even if you think they're not worth as much as you.
Public posting of salary data can create a great deal of completely unnecessary resentment and the ensuing problems. It also tends to force employers into a model of paying based on easily-verifiable measures, such as seniority, rather than the more flexible and generally more accurate subjective judgement of a good manager.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Dude, you do realize that you overstepped the boundaries of overprotective, jealous boyfriend and went straight into creepy stalker land, right? You tracked down personal information on a person that you feared she might have been interested in, flaunted this in front of her, and then "[left] it up to the reader to determine what one can do with such information."
Next, "you dumped HER" (I'm really hoping for her sake that this is a lie and she had the sense to dump you), you messaged the other person (who you give no indication of knowing personally) to say that he can have her (leaving the two of the them with a good story about her crazy ex to bond over), and then you post something showing how much you glory in the private information you collected about her behind your back by spying on their conversations.
I honestly pity any girl that you next set your sights on. Get help. Get serious psychiatric help before you hurt somebody or leave yourself doomed for a serious of failed relationship because you have a serious combination of trust issues, possessiveness, and vindictiveness combined with a lack of empathy to see how your actions would affect another person.
(Posting AC because the last thing I want is some crazy, vindictive stalker after me.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Maybe something similar will eventually operate here? Once more and more personal material becomes available, and people begin to see just how much misleading, mistaken, malicious, and downright false material there is on the web, maybe they'll learn not to take any of it as read.
Meanwhile, I guess we'll all have to be careful...
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