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Design Software Weakens Classic Drawing Skills
mosel-saar-ruwer writes "A recent conference, hosted by UC-Berkeley's College of Environmental Design, sought to 'examin[e] the need and role for drawing today in the design professions and fine arts'. In this Reuters summary, via C-NET, the participants seem to agree that the emergence of sophisticated graphics software has coincided with a startling decline in the basic drawing skills of university students. Apparently teenaged boys don't need to practice drawing their nudes when they can just download them off the web."
Typing reduces handwriting skills, instant messaging reducing conversation skills, etc.
You occasionally hear about the executive in a company who can't read or write; but functions well because his secretary does this for him - and his skills are being able to talk a good sales talk and wine-and-dine customres. With modern technology this can happen to all of us.
I think computers will bring on a great new age of illeteracy, where it doesn't even matter if someone has thhose skills.
I'd like to see the study itself. As a fine art + design student, I have some personal interested invested in this. I would guess that its the current "new media" style of teaching destroying drawing capability, not the existence of graphics computers. There are very few ( and the number is decreasing ) schools that require adequate drawing education, the current style is ignoring drawing and teaching students to be funky. Luckily, I've had training in drawing/painting/sculpture/printmaking etc etc before I was allowed to use a computer for my work. Hell, design is easier by hand with cutouts and all sorts of stuff. anyway, I'd blame the current teaching philosophy and not the programs.
Calculators certainly caused my long division skills to deterioate.
While I can see where this article is coming from, and I do think drawing skills are important, I can't help but feeling a slightly reactionary undercurrent to this. A lot of young people now are more comfortable using computers than drawing on paper... so what? You still have to put in a lot of work to create something good, regardless of the medium. Besides, I don't think you have to be good at drawing to be good at creating art on a computer, just as you don't need to be a great painter to produce an excellent sculpture. It's just a new medium that offers possibilities that paper drawing can't, as well as limitations that paper drawing doesn't have.
Right from the beginning of TFA, I got the sense that it was a bunch of old stodges saying "those newfangled machineries!, no sense to it!". I am not an artist, I can barely handle stick figures, but I think that computer aided artistry is going to end up like computer aided drafting, a vital step in the evolution of the species. Art has always existed for one purpose, to evoke an emotional response in the viewer, good or bad, that is art. If Artists today are using computers to progress faster, to push boundaries, to express themselves in ways not possible before, how can this be a bad thing?
Apparently teenaged boys don't need to practice drawing their nudes when they can just download them off the web.
So anyone who uses a web browser is now a power user working with "sophisticated graphics software"?
The summary may be wacko, but the real article refers to things like Adobe Creative Suite 2, rather than web browsers, as the sophicticated graphics software.
I've also heard that modern artists don't know how to mix their own paints from animal dung, blood and dirt.
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i
I come at this story from a different angle. I'm a tech who's starting to
be infatuated with drawing.
It works like this: I spend 90% of my time at work sitting in front of a PC
(a Mac, but that distinction is mighty blurred these days..). I troubleshoot
IT problems and design software. Historicaly, my free time at home was spent
doing thing like playing games and watching movies. It's all virtual,
abstract, and intangable.
Last year, I was in laid up for a bit and found myself with some time and
crayons on my hands -- and I realized that I have no drawing skills. So I
took a semester long "drawing for n00bs" class at a local school. I'm almost
done with it, and it's really changed me.
1) It's a great fun to be able to get down and dirty with real materials.
charcoal, pencils, ink, etc.
2) Even n00bs can make pretty things with a little help
3) I started to notice how much shitty computer-made art there is on the
web (for values of art == design).
Related to the article directly, there's something in this debate that reminds
me of the assembler vs. compiler arguments in tech circles. Is it better
if you know what's going on and how to do it yourself? Is there value in
doing it the hard way?
-- Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
Does it matter how art is done as long as the viewers like it? Applies (almost exclusively) to art. Drawing skills used to be the only tool to express or create art. But now using Photoshop also allows people to express themselves, shows their creative nature, and introduces a new form of drawing skill. Nobody stole your cheese, it's just moved some place else. And in regrads to online messengers..... A social retard like myself would not have been able to converse properly if not for IRC and ICQ and other messengers.
I love humanity, it is people I hate
... the invention of the new high-tech material called "canvas" has led to a dramatic decline in traditional cave-painting skills among incoming art students at Bedrock University.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
While things like this might erode such skills, I'm pretty certain that there isn't much call for the lost art of wagon wheel making thanks to Mr Ford, or lye soap making etc... its the natural way of things. Film developing has kind of gone out of style these days too... uhhh so what?
Drawing skills are seldom needed these days, and for where they are, that just makes artistic folk more appreciated...
Its not software that erodes or diminishes drawing skills, it happens when people have no incentive or reason to use said skills. No news here...
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Its a matter of what you do with what you find on the internet and with technology.
This was done in genuine #2 pencil by a human hand http://www.threeseas.net/pencil-nude.jpg
This was done to try and correct bad caring for the artwok http://www.threeseas.net/pencil--nude.jpg
But today technology can take a photo from a cell phone and make it look like pencil.
So only to a collector might such work be of value.
Then there is the talent in photography to produce the original photo.
Honestly, a student genuinely interested in the media of pencil by the human hand, then they will pursue it.
So what it means is that we simply have more interested as collectors or at least observers.
This is UC Berkeley's Architecture school. Older architects, who learned how to do everything by hand, have been bitching and moaning about the reduced skillsets of students since computers were introduced in architecture schools.
Yes it's true. But computers in architecture are here to stay. Drafting by hand is extremely inefficient and not done by the vast majority of architecture firms. Hand drawing skills are still to be desired however. Spending the extra time drawing by hand forces you to think more about the importance of every line you draw. When you draw in CAD, its very easy to zoom in and out and lose the sense of what should or should not be visible in a particular drawing, depending on the scale it will be displayed at. When working by hand however, you are very concious that you don't need to draw that toilette paper holder in the bathroom stall because its barely a dot or smudge on the paper.
If you can draw and draft compelling works by hand, your skills can be translated to CAD. The reverse is not true.
The remedy to this is not to take computers out of architecture schools, the remedy is to require more hand-drawing classes. If you want the students to have art skills, make them take art classes.
But, like I said, this is not a new debate... the exact same things were being said when I was in architecture school 9 years ago. And people older than me say the same things were said when they were in school. Old-timers like to bitch and moan about "the good old days". The irony is that these same old-timers were criticised by their respective predicessors for the exact same thing: newer drafting tools meant that students were getting worse at freehand drawing; newer modeling tools and materials (i.e. plastics and precut small hardwoods) meant that students were getting worse at woodworking; newer art materials (cheap watercolors, latex paints) meant that students were getting worse at guache and oil painting.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
As a former design student, a design professional and instructor I found the post, the article and the first two comments a bit distressing. I'll try to keep my comments concise.
1. Blaming the tools is the first sign of a bad instructor
2. Drawing skills are still extremely valuable and *ARE* taught with digital tools today (Wacom tablets are wonderful)
3. Finding someone to agree (or disagree) that a piece of art is good isn't very hard; it's a matter taste to most, even the 'educated'
4. Drawing on the computer is just as challenging and frustrating as drawing in any other fashion; more so because of the myriad of tools and effects that can be used in a single drawing
5. Most professors that degrade the computer as a design tool are usually computer illiterate or barely literate and can be equated to math instructors that think that we should all go back to slide rules and ditch calculators (although for some types of calculations they may be correct)
My point is, the tool is not to blame. And, because the skills aren't necessarily directly transferrable from one medium to another (from graphite and paper to stylus and tablet, or mouse and screen) doesn't mean the artist is lacking in ability. All artists find a medium that they are comfortable with and will (in a lot of cases) stick to that medium for the duration of their careers. Just because I'm BETTER at drawing on the computer than drawing on a piece of paper doesn't make me a bad artist, creative thinker, or whatever. It means I've found a medium that allows ME to express my creativity.
Imagine a future world without computers... it will involve knowing how to kill things with pointy sticks!
What about the decline in common sense in recent years?
Art is whatever the observer thinks it is.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Does it decrease drawing skill or does it just not reinforce/rely on those skills as much.
I.e. how well can you draw a circle/line free hand?
When was the last time you had to?
Does this mean tools like a ruler and a compass decrease the ability to draw circles and lines? No it doesnt, it just means less people actually do/practice those things free hand. And there are tools that provide better results.
Same thing here, people just dont feel the need to practice drawing free hand.(so less people keep doing it after college)
Given some time and designs start to burn out and people will go back to drawing/free hand work.
Look at comic books, Marvel comics in the 90s saw a decline in pencil work as they started to go for all digital ink and color. The result was a mess, crappy looking figures with gradients and colors that looked very dull. meanwhile you had comics coming out from other companies like Wildstorm and Image that had extremely fine and detailed pencil and ink work, blended with computerized color. The shit hit the fan at marvel and now they make movies, but thats a diffrent story.
Apparently teenaged boys don't need to practice drawing their nudes when they can just download them off the web.
This is, by far, the most amusing Slashdot summary I have read in quite a long time.
I think this is more akin to fountain pens leading to a decline in ability to sharpen quills... or if sticking to the farms then it is more like tractors leading to a decline in ability to plow a field with horses, or by hand. This is a case of new technology replacing old, and some people not thinking it is a good idea and will be laughed at a few years down the road (like the guy who wrote the letter to Lincoln saying that steamboats are bad and God never intended man to travel at "breakneck speeds of 35 miles per hour").
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
Many comics have moved to digital production. Almost all, even if they start as sketches, are early in their life scanned and almost all coloring and refining done digitally. In the same way more and more story boards are moving to the computer realm. There was an article here recently of LucasArts working with its game division on story boards that are interactive, or at least dynamic. In both computers are being used more and more as the digital form can be quickly manipulated and more importantly copying and transporting is trivial.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
I will wager any dollar ammount that brian worked extensively in "fine" mediums honing his skills in life drawing classes, obsevational drawing... years of work to produce work that fine. The point EVERYONE in this thread seems to be missing is that the article is not saying computers are BAD but that students don't take the time to learn the concepts and theories. Booting Photoshop and slapping some gradients and the plastic wrap on an image is considered art to many students today. I consider myself a decent artist, and my work always looks much sharper and crisp when using the computer as a tool, but I use it as such. I spent the better part of my life studying figures, drawing in pencil/pen/marker/oil/watercolour to get to the point I am today.
One need only take a glance at deviant art or any other free web art sites, or the countless webcomics, to notice that a copy of Photoshop and a marginal ability to draw lines gives people the impression they are decent artists. Not to marginalize the work of aspiring artists, but it is fundamental they return to traditional mediums and studies to futher their abilities. Yes, absolutely as you pointd out, the computer is an AMAZING tool for artists, probably the most important breakthrough in art medum in the last 100 years or so, but it is only that a tool.
God never intended man to travel at "breakneck speeds of 35 miles per hour".
The mxs reading on my bike computer for today is 35.5 mph.
I'm going to hell.
Anyway, since I'm going to hell I might as well play the Devil's Advocate a bit and point out that the tractor meant the development of hand planting ceased for nearly a century; and it turns out that no plow hand planting is a superior technology for small farms; and small farms owned by many create more economic and social stablility than large farms in the hands of only a few. All your eggs in one basket, as it were.
Sometimes the old ways, if not outright best are at least best in certain cases, just as Newtonian physics is still applicable and easier to work with if v is small compared to c.
A few years ago I began to divest myself of my drafting tools. "Didn't need 'em anymore," and they took up space, especially the drafting table, and created unwanted clutter.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh! Wrong answer Sparky.
In only a few years I've noticed a lifetime's worth of mechanical drawing skills degrading; and I've noticed it because I've noticed that in many cases it's still preferable to draw.
Dooooooon't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got, 'till it's gone?
And if anyone should know better it's me, Mr. "Maintains his Neolithic technology skills because he finds they actually come in useful."
There's no such thing as a skill not worth having (well, ok, I know a guy who can play the William Tell Overture by cracking his knuckles. For every rule there's an exception), the chief problem being:
"The lyfe so short; the craft so long to lerne." - Chaucer
And just to rub it in, if the craft is not maintained, it goes away. All by its frickin' self.
What's wit dat?
KFG
This is garbage. As a 3d character animator i've seeked out to improve my classical figure drawing skills in recent years.
Why?
Because if you cant draw it, you cant truely see it. Seeing things is having an understanding of form. Yes you can have references, but you will never understand that form in your mind three dimensionally until you can express it quickly on paper.
Yes we can all make a sphere easily in 3D. We see a sphere in our mind, so we click the Create Sphere button in 3D.
BUT Lets talk about the shoulder, or thigh... the complex forms it takes as muscles work underneith the skin and fat. First we need to understand where those muscles are, what they look like and how they attach to the structure of the skeleton. We also need to know how they work, that way we can easily see in our minds the forms they create. Muscles cause our body to form interesting shapes that are very dynamic looking from all angles.
Unless we have a good understanding of this, and can quickly express it on paper through drawing, we really cant sculpt it in 3d from all angles.
I've been drawing my entire life, and I was always good at drawing arms, and chest muscles... but i noticed that i could only do them from certain angles. I had problems with foreshortening/perspective and form. I also was quite bad at legs and hands. Now its hard to draw an expressive character without understanding the forms of the hand.
When i got into animation... i noticed all of the great animators could see things in their heads as i could, but they could express them... and i could not because i could not draw like they could. I may have had the pose, or the action in my mind but i could not translate that shiluoette to paper... until i took classical figure drawing.
Now i can draw whats in my head. That is very important because 3d work is very involved. If you can not draw your idea out in a quick sketch and then refine it... work it on paper... Why would you sit down and put a ton of work into 3D modelling when chances are... its not coming from a clear vision.
Sure you can look at an empty lot, and see a giant building, and you know you can get people to build it, and you can use a hammer...
But you need to really see your vision, a blueprint before you embark on the task.
Learning classical figure drawing is essential for animators, fashion designers etc because its not only about form, its about expression.
Drawing isnt technical, its about taking that spark of thought in your brain and using your hand to express, or guesture your emotion onto a physical canvas. The thought in our mind is but a moment, but once we can capture it on paper, its easier to edit, refine and view.
Drawing is essential and its so rewarding because it really does help you to express your ideas, find poses for animation, and it has been true for a long time in animation that... those who can draw anything, are usually classically trained figure pencil artists.
The best cartoonists understand form first, then widdle down to simple toony characters because they understand the body language and how to push it to abstract levels.
Being able to draw, is to have a clear vision and a way to express it to others. A thought is but a moment in your head. Sitting down and working for weeks on a 3D designed character could proof a complete waste of time because you never had a clear vision.
Most of the article was referring to art, but my $0.02 as someone who draws on a daily basis as part of my professional work:
As an engineer, the ability to be able to come up with a hand sketch at a meeting to explain to a client or an architect how you plan to solve a problem is important. being able to draw clearly enough that someone can go from having no idea what you are conveying, to understanding it to the point where they can suggest changes or alternatives is the goal.
You may well be able to drive a CAD machine to make a perfect drawing of the detail, but unless you can sketch it up in the first place, it is hard to sell the concept.
In some cases, freehand sketches are enough for something substantial to be built from, and there may be little benefit in transferring the drawing to CAD. Some engineers wont use rulers in their hand sketches (using tracing paper laid over grid paper), as the eye will more readily read an almost straight hand line as straight, but will look at a ruled line and compare it against other ruled lines, and spot any minor discrepencies in being parallel, or the like. It is counter intuitive, and took me a while to adjust to it, but my sketches are looking better for not using a ruler to get straight lines.
There is a place for both computer generated drawings as well as hand drawn, and the balance needs to be found in the training of professionals who will need to be familiar with both.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
This is news?
I just hope the author got a decent kickback from Adobe. At least that way *someone* would be getting something of value from this meaningless piece of drivel.
A point by point summary the article, for those who want to save a minute that might otherwise be spent reading the whole thing:
---------------------
Grandiose title, largely unrelated to the text.
"University instructors" and "teachers" say students can't draw today, and the reason is because they use computers.
Drawing with a computer is easy, and doing so makes one lazy.
A professor of architecture who hosted a conference on the topic says, "I see an increasing passivity on the part of students." (But we're not going to give you enough context to guess at what the hell his actual point might have been.)
"Teachers say" drawing with computer is easy. Not using a computer gives one the qualities of a saint.
Another professor of architecture says "it" takes a long time, and adds some meaningless spiritual gobbledegook. (What "it" is, or why on earth we should care that he finds drawing a spiritual experience, or indeed why he would bring up the subject when he's meant to be discussing the decline in his student's artistic abilities, are left as exercises for the reader.)
BLATANT, TOTALLY ABSURD, PARAGRAPH-LONG ADVERT FOR ADOBE SOFTWARE THROWN INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE ARTICLE FOR NO REASON.
Drawing is good, says the director of an art school.
Computers are good too, says the director of a computer-art school.
Some drawings sell for a lot of money.
An art auctioneer says that many people buy drawings.
Drawings are cheap compared to paintings and sculpture. (Err... didn't this set out to be an article about computers?)
It doesn't cost much money to draw on paper.
An artist says, it doesn't cost much money to draw on paper.
----------------------
I sure am glad I read that. My world view will never be the same.
Digital tools are both good and bad I think. With Photoshop (+wacom) I can do more color studies. I don't have to buy expensive materials or set things up. The tools are just a click a way. I can mix and select colors faster. The threshold of having to set things up and clean up is not there. On the other hand I've gotten a bit sloppy, maybe because I work at a screen scale and can't zoom in the same way as with the eye on a paper.
My paintings can be seen on my homepage but I'd rather recommend taking a look at Craig Mullins stuff, he is an excellent artist who do a lot of his paintings with Photoshop.
There's many people who 'cheat' by using filters over photos and such. I say cheat because these persons later say (or let people believe) they did it from scratch. It's not cheating if they are frank about their work process.
The Chair Corp. comic(*00-12)
Computer graphics apps can't teach anatomy, proportion, shading, perspective, and composition. Dicking around on the computer is NOT going to impart these eessential skills. Having a modicum of drawing talent, the best thing that ever happened to my drawing ability was to learn the above basics. Want to draw sexy chicks? Learn anatomy and proportion for starters, then move on to shading/lighting. For drawing people, a great starting point is Drawing the Head and Figure by Jack Hamm. The best drawing books are by Andrew Loomis, but unfortunately most of them are out of print but they can be found *cough* online.
Or the invention of pencilin drastically reduced the skills of the average person at digging a 6 foot deep hole.
I'm horrible at drawing things by hand, definitely not what you'd term an "artistic" person in the traditional sense. When I discovered computers and graphic programs it was awesome because I was able to use technical skill express my artistic side that would otherwise never have seen the light of day.
I've worked in an art and media-ish department in a telecommunications company for a long time, and even 5-6 years ago, we had people who could only work on computers. I recall a power failure we had and about half the artists were just milling about, doing nothing, while the others just pulled out some drawing paper and their pens and pencils and just kept on going.
Those who could draw also had other talents. One of them used to be able to mimic another artist's style (if you could call it that) almost exactly, in a fraction of the time. It was funny: he'd narrate while he was doing it, too: "Multi-color gradient, Alien Skin-dropshadow, Arial 36 point, done!"
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
This is a highly valuable skill. Yes, even in today's modern world.
I heard an interview with a Pixar animator. She said they do the storyboarding drawings by hand. Why? "Because it's just faster."
As a scientist, I can communicate complex ideas far, far easier because I can quickly sketch it while speaking. When I want pretty or accurate I go to a computer.
There is no substitute for hand-drawing skill if you are someone who does things.
Some people have brought up that in their education they're still forced to learn basic drawing skills and a solid artistic/craft grounding, and I agree with this (being an artist too). I think it isn't a question of learning those skills though, but a question of using them regularly. I'd hazard a guess that any artist or designer could tell you that the best way to learn those drawing skills is to get a lot of practice in, conversely, when you get to working and suddenly everyone wants to see things 3D modeled or photoshopped because it looks more finished, then you start focusing more and producing those things faster rather than spending the time sketching. When that happens your drawing skills do tend to erode. It isn't that the software is weakening drawing skills, but more that the software changes peoples' expectations which forces artists to work in a different medium. You could probably counteract it by just forcing yourself to do more drawing every day, I know I just realized my marker rendering skills are shot and have been trying to use them more.
An AC suggested putting ? on the end of the URL, but you don't even need to do that. If you just go up to the URL, put your cursor in it and hit enter, that works too.
It used to be junior high and high school that most guys would take hand drafting classes. Wther they'd to on to college to be engineers or just be a mechanic, it was thought important to understand skills like precise machinery description, multiple views, clean line drawing and lettering, etc. This was one of the first skills to be computerized in CAD products of the 1980s.