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Bruce Perens on the Status of Open Source
Lars Lehtonen writes to tell us that Bruce Perens has posted the text of his LinuxWorld press conference. In his talk he takes a look at many of the hot topics surrounding the open source community including ODF, NTP vs RIM, and GPLv3. From the article: "It's interesting to note that Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist implicated in scandal with Republican Tom Delay, was employed by Bill Gates' dad's law firm "Preston Gates", a political proxy for Microsoft. Microsoft succeeded in lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to oppose ODF."
Just one more reason for me to hate Microsoft.
Think Deeply.
everybody is against us!!!
Trying to make a troll out of every story now?
First of all, I never understood what makes this Bruce Perens guy any more credible than any random person on Slashdot. The guy seems to mainly troll about RedHat and Windows and make un-informative IANAL posts. And then you have this story, which seems to put him firmly in "KOOK" territory. Why's he so famous in the Linux crowd?
Second, isn't Bill Gates' dad a big time progressive democrat? He only goes public to argue how the American people should make he and his son pay higher taxes. The basic premise connecting him to GOP operatives seems a little off.
Finally, the idea that ODF is of any importance at all to guys like Delay and Abramoff is really silly.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Do we really need a "status of open source" article every 2 weeks? Can't they just say "yup, two weeks later, not much'as changed..."
(now watch me get modded Troll)
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Who is Abram and why does he Jack em off?
One more data point in the fact this was a bipartisan scandal.
Even the Minority leader Harry Reid was a big beneficiary of cash payments by clients of Jack Abrahamoff!
And this means what, exactly? Abramoff pleaded guilty to a variety of charges, but didn't have much of anything to do with Microsoft or ODF.
This seem to be a nice set of coincidences, but nothing more. If you are going to allege something sinister, please do it with evidence or proof. Throwing a bunch of random things out doesn't really mean much to anybody but gullible leftist slashbot.
Thanks but we really don't want to hear about Microsoft this and microsoft that!
So we have special interests from both the left and the right paying off the duopoly as a cost of doing business or doing anything in this country.
So, is this the year of Desktop Linux?
as those seem to be the only things missing from this story
when i read Linux stories like this from Perens or Stallman iam not suprised Linux isnt gaining more acceptance, it seems everyday more of an OS for kooky weirdos than a serious business platform
This is nothing but FUD that plays right into the scandal of the day. Perens needs to provide some proof that Abramoff was directly involved in the ODF issue as part of a lobbying effort by Microsoft, Gate's dad or the Easter Bunny. Otherwise I'd say he needs to keep his conspiracy theories to himself.
It would be good to define what ODF (Open Document Formay) means somewhere. It's not defined in the Slashdot article or in Perens' article.
"It's interesting to note that Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist implicated in scandal with Republican Tom Delay, was employed by Bill Gates' dad's law firm "Preston Gates", a political proxy for Microsoft. Microsoft succeeded in lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to oppose ODF."
What is interesting about it is the fact that it is lobbying. Lobbying is only organized, legalized bribery! Microsoft lobbies both Republicans and Democrats because it really doesn't care who is in power as long as they can buy the legislation they want. The fact that it was found illegal is something they will probably take care of with the next round of legislation (and partly paid for by Microsoft along with all other companies looking for a special favor).
Republican, Democrat, who cares? What we must get rid of is the entire idea of "pay for legislation"!
So you're not just Republican, you're a dirty fucking anti-Semite too.
Why? Because people think they're evil and they can't compete without pushing their lawyers and being evil.
But why they can't compete? Because people think they're evil and they can't compete without pushing their lawyers and being evil...
Oh, did I say "companies like"? Oops, no, just eLottery. They seem to have some patents "broadly covering Internet retailing of state lottery tickets". In other words, software patents, or actually business model patents (legalized monopolies) disguised as them. Of course, those patents let them raise capital from investors eager to profit from that legalized monopoly. Where did that capital go? Right into lobbyists' pockets.
Microsoft has another connection to the Abramoff scandal. Microsoft e.g. supports IPI, a right wing republican organisation which is involved in the Abramoff scandal - in fact its lobbyist Giovanetti openly had to admit it when his organisation was accused.
... of US-lobbying and sent it all over the world, you'd better stop complaining about unfair reporting.
...
IPI represents MS interests at WIPO (euphemism for insults against NGOs), recently wanted to join the MS-EU antitrust case. This was rejected by the EU court of Justice for good reasons. See curia.eu.int
Further MS pays ACT, an SME association astroturf with the well-known lobbyist Jonathan Zuck. Close relations to DCI + ATL. I remind you of dead people letter campaigns of ATL... Guess for what company ATL did it?
Microsoft paid DCI's TechCentralStation journo-lobbying. TCS funds political radicals all over the world, spreads anarcho-capitalist ideas and insults France, Muslims, alledged socialists etc. The idea behind DCI is to inject radical views supporting their corporate sponsors into right wing sectarians and barraters.
My personal advice: when you hire the
MS did not have luck before. Here at Germany Microsoft was involved in the Hunzinger scandal which forced a minister of defense, Mr. Scharping, to step down. Hunzinger's main corporate customer was Microsoft. I think it started when Hunzinger letters about a TV placement for Ms were leaked to the press and media professionals started to discuss the case. So Ms was involved in one of the few German lobbying scandals which had serious business consequences for Hunzinger. Microsoft quickly switched over to another lobbying firm but could not avoid bad press. This is a risk of MS lobbying: They burn lobbyists, they also burned Hunzinger, because smart people watch what MS does.
Last year a press worker for Microsoft Denmark, Marianne Wier, communicated to the Danish press (Borsen) a blackmail attempt of Mr. Gates himself, directed towards the Danish government. They were so sure of themselves that they even communicated it intentionally to the press. The scandal was echoed in the DK Parliament.
The so-called lobbying reform bill that just passed the House won't fix anything. If anything, it will reduce the influence of those who don't support big business. It's a whitewash created by those who the system benefits the most. The Business Software Alliance spends tons of money wining and dining members of Congress, and they have much more influence than any individual voter.
Until more of us read a newspaper, educate ourselves, and show up to vote, the system isn't going to change. Those with money have more influence than voters. Of course, if more states deploy electronic voting, our votes won't count any more.
In the meantime, you can fight back by giving money to those that support ODF, like EFF and EPIC. (I have no affiliation with either except to give them a little money now and then.)
And Abramoff actually is guilty. He lobbied for republicans AND democrats. Tom Delay has only been accused by Democrats. Delay hasn't been found guilty of any lobbying scandal.
There isn't much to be learned from this.
We are given some rather improbable conspiracy theory around the ODF affair, a long wail about software patents, a few digs at Microsoft, some very tentative ideas about DRM and a slapdown of Linus Torvalds, something that now seems almost obligatory every time the big cheeses of the Linux world open their mouth. I wonder why they feel they have to run Torvalds down. Are they worried they won't be seen as following the correct right-on line and might be made to stand on their own in the playground? Frightened, perhaps, that Big Richard Stallman will say they are sissies and chuck them out of his gang? Whatever the reason it comes over as pretty darn unedifying.
Articles about how awful the patent system is are ten a penny. What is very hard to find are folks who have thought this one through, have some cogent and realistic proposals, and who are prepared to build support for change among those in a position to change things. Anyway, it doesn't sound as if Mr Perens will be one. Big cheese massage sounds more his gig.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Abramoff worked for ANYBODY that would give him cash. His buddies of old, Ralph Reed, Norquist, would often take the opposing sides. And they made millions, unprecedented wealth, in using DeLay as an on/off switch for introducing or burying legislation. It was government for sale.
And NO, kids, it was not business as usual. This is what happens when one party takes over everything, and that party only represents moneyed interests.
This is why reading Bruce is better than reading some random guy on slashdot. The man knows his stuff. Go RT whole FA. It's worth it just to hear some one say it straight without screwing something up.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
People have conclusions without even research or check. I don't know whether Abramoff is related or not with Microsoft. The fact (and I don't if this is true) that he worked for Bill Gates' father does not estabilish any relationship between Abramoff, Microsoft and Microsoft's lobbyist.
For sure Gates does not need his Dad's resources to do that.
But I wrote here, because Perens didn't write 20 or more books on Open Source. His book series about Open Source has 21 books written by many authors. What is quite different.
how about this:
/.-ers. (ok at least the part that they would use the patents, not sure wether it would stop inovation/development)
"However, it's still the case that Microsoft could stop all new innovation in the Linux space by bringing suits using newer patents, at the cost of some survivable damage to themselves. My theory is that they won't do so until they get unified software patenting laws in Europe. They won't create bad news that would sink their own legislative efforts."
I wouldn't know, but I would believe this in a heartbeat, what about other
This may shock everyone, but, he has said so in several interviews and books that he leads towards Democrats. He used to golf with Bill Clinton. Has he ever even been photographed with George Bush? I don't think so. Indeed, Gate more or less acts like a fairly progressive robber baron of old - ruthless in business, but having an enormous and positive impact on the world through his charitable foundations.
Also, stop calling Perens a Kook. That's MY territory, Mister!
This is my sig.
Name the Democrats Abramoff lobbied for. There aren't any.
You're probably thinking about the Indian tribes who *used* to give money
to some Democrats before they got tied up with Abramoff, who told them to
stop giving money to Democrats or he would do black magic for them.
The MSM tries to make you think this is a "bipartisan" scandal. It is not in the least.
Maybe I've got this wrong, in which case please forgive me.
When I checked, your post was modded 10% troll. That seems to indicate that a bunch of people have modded your post. If each mod was equal, a 10% mod would seem to indicate that there were about ten mods. In my mind the fact that you weren't modded flamebait and troll indicates that more people agree with you than disagree. Hmm. I'm not sure what to make of that.
In any event, the idea that ODF is important to Microsoft and its hired shills is not silly. Your comment is simply misinformed. Microsoft cares a great deal about ODF and is willing to spend a lot of money fighting it; and they fight dirty. You clearly read enough on Slashdot to be familiar with Bruce Perens' posts. In that case, you probably are aware of the recent goings on in Mass. Again, I'm not sure what to make of that.
On balance, my guess is that you are a troll. I am a little disturbed that some people with mod points seem to agree with you.
America hasn't suffered the way most of the rest of the world has. It's a sort of "let them eat cake" cruelty.
People who've been through prison or who come from other places don't find these jokes funny at all.
So noted. Now what? Do I get a cookie?
If you were a troll and you had bothered to reply to my post, I assume that you would have answered in a less measured manner.
I take no position on Perens being a kook. Sometimes what makes the difference between being a kook and a hero is sheer luck and timing. Lots of the great figures in history were also kooks.
My comment was mostly to disagree with you that ODF is beneath the dignity of Delay and Abramoff. Microsoft has shown itself quite willing to use the best politicians that money can buy.
I think what you mean is that it's not suspicious, or it doesn't indicate wrongdoing, or perhaps that it's not relevant to Mr. Perens' point and thus possibly constitutes the creation of unfair innuendo by Mr. Perens.
But it's certainly still interesting, at least to me. If nothing else because it demonstrates once again exactly how small the pool of actually empowered people in America is.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Am I the only one who think /. should have a tinfoil hat category besides Politics?
Seriously, Mr. Bruce Perens couldn't have written a better script for Syriana II. I'll be blunt. ODF and GNUv3 rabbit hole doesn't go any deeper than the usual Bostonian political scuffle. Given enough spare time to ponder about politics, even Boston's Big-Dig project could be tided to Microsoft somehow.
C'mon. We all know Microsoft's deep pocket reaches everyone, but the speculation forgets to mention that Open Source isn't some entity a political spinhead can control. For instance, IBM vs. SCO. Even if Linux kernel violated SCO's patent, could anyone really stop Linux kernel development? I believe in self-governing body where countability is on each and everyone who's involved. With or without multibillion corporations pushing their own agendas, people like Linus who cares less about politics or profit (except free beer) or even public's opinion, make Open Source possible.
Mr. Bruce Perens, to me, sounds bitter and impatient how ODF and Open Source is being adapted around the country, and the world.
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Who says that rate is slow? ODF is less than a year old. Yet, two state governments have moved adopt it. Can you name any other technology state governments have adopted so quickly?
Let's look at what Peren is angry about again:
[Character Assasination via Boston Globe] ... Microsoft succeeded in lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to oppose ODF. ... There's a chilling effect that stems from the harassment of Quinn: other government CIOs are being scared away from the Open Format issue because now they know that Microsoft will do its best to end their careers if they even try.
That's hardly what you have charged.
I'd like to see you address any of that with more than insults and "say it aint so." The short of it is that M$ used it's money and influence to bamboozle decision makers, the public and other CTO's. The CTO's, who are more difficult to fool than the others, are being threatened. The facts of the case seem to support Perens on all of the above.
If you are not angry about the end of Quinn's career over file formats, you have not thought enough about it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
"Often followed... by a lenghty jail sentence?" Where? China?
It is incredibly difficult to prosecute somebody for perjury, and if happens very infrequently. Particularly where, in a proper analogy to the patent application process, the underlying testimony was in a civil matter.
The fact that this is so obviously wrong makes me wonder about the portions of the article I'm not not knowledgeable about.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
just outfitted a little crew of B2B sales people with seven machines running Slack, KOffice and Firefox. I might throw in a CRM system of some sort, but most likely the spreadsheets will suffice.
There's a chilling effect that stems from the harassment of Quinn: other government CIOs are being scared away from the Open Format issue because now they know that Microsoft will do its best to end their careers if they even try. They can see from the Abramoff scandal that Microsoft's influence reaches the very highest level of American politics - and that while Abramoff and Delay were damaged, Gates hasn't been touched.
I always wonder why people complain about Microsoft but when it comes to do something against Microsoft, they fall silent. Also Bruce Perens doesn't give a hint, why? Well let's have a look about some key developments in OpenSource.
Mozilla: It is by far the most successful OpenSource project and it finally forced Microsoft to upgrade IE6 to IE7 and become more standard. Why is Mozilla this successful? Because it runs anywhere (cross-platform) and its look&feel suits enough users so they go for it. Besides Mozilla is developed with its own XUL framework.
OpenOffice: Not as successful as Mozilla but might become as well, albeit there are some reservation. This mostly because there are some complains about performance in their Java parts. Still it will become successful (on Windows and Linux but not MacOS) because it runs anywhere (cross-platform) and its look&feel (since version 2.0) suits enough users so they go for it. OpenOffice is developed with its own framework which allows for a native Windows port and a GTK/X-Server port anywhere else.
Gimp: Why does even the majority of the Linux users wish for Photoshop than Gimp (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf)? It seems Gimp fails to attract even Linux users let alone other's platform users. Because it's not usable as the others and its look&feel doesn't fit.
GTK apps: There are countless OpenSource applications written with GTK but none has become a significant contender in the market. None has threatened any commercial Windows-Only vendor. Because they all fail the usability as Gimp but maybe not as bad.
QT apps: There is no questions QT applications are usable and the look nice enough. But they face another problem, QT as OpenSource is only used within KDE but nowhere else. So even if they theoretically could be cross-platform they practically aren't.
Java apps: I don't know any top Java application, maybe there are but none for the ordinary user. This is amazing since there are lots of millions dropped into Java. Sun (Java), IBM (Eclips) and others spent altogether probably more than halve the money in OpenSource, still all this money seems to have no effect to threaten Microsoft.
Xara: Xara is a rather nice application and with Xara LX becoming OpenSource, there's much expectation it soon will become one of the top. Why can Xara but not Gimp? Maybe because it's written with wxWidgets?
Audacity: It's yet another good sample for a successful application even if it has to compete against lots of free commercial applications. Again Audacity is written with wxWidgets.
wxWidgets apps: There aren't that many other applications written with wxWidgets so I don't know other OpenSource candidates. There are some commercial (e.g. AOL is or was a wxWidgets app) but they don't make it public. But remind they might as easily be released on Linux as Xara is, either commercial or free.
GoogleEarth: No question GoogleEarth is in its area a top Windows application but there is still no Linux release. What do you think when you know that GoogleEarth is a QT application but not wxWidgets?
I think there are enough hints that any GTK application has failed to attract users and QT applications to attract users cross-platform. But to get a bigger market share and to force Microsoft to fight for it, I've design wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) so it's easy to create attractive cross-platform applications.
O. Wyss
See http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
The documentation format of the Internet2 is a big break from proprietary formats. http://www.internet2.edu/resources/internet2-docum ent-guidelines-200507.html
Now strengthening the system by making what is patented sounds sensible. However this would lower the "success" metrics of patents/year and actually might allow non-US companies to sell innovative products in the US. Moreover, it will cost more and will thus kill the defense argument of the patent system that it is meant to work for the small inventor.
As the patent system stands, it is best for the US government to milk the USPTO for income, since that is the only thing the PTO is actually good at. It can never be good at making sure that only new and original stuff is patented, because there is no objective measure for that. Well actually I can tell you one, it is "if you keep your patent secret, an no-one else comes up with the idea or a better one within the time the patent holds, then the patent is new and original". Obviously, such metrics is useless.
The only suggestions for improvements I could offer are: (1) lower the duration a patent is valid and enforceable to reduce the pain
(2) make sure the patent application hands out enough information to truly assist someone in copying the invention
(3) make sure the patent application carefully and directly spells out what the invention actually is good at, which also means no claims which are just the icing on the cake.
(4) regarding (2) and (3) and other criteria like novelty, if a patent fails to follow the guidelines, in general, DO NOT allow a judge to somehow FIX the patent by cancelling random claims and declaring the other ones valid. If the patent application is broken, the applicant has failed his duties and the entire patent should be cancelled, otherwise there is NO INCENTIVE for the applicant not TO GAMBLE THE SYSTEM.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
The Indian Tribes were screwed by Abramoff. They gave money to Reid *before* getting tied up with Abramoff.
Try again.
I was left under the impression that Bruce is dead
The Quote: "It's interesting to note that Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist implicated in scandal with Republican Tom Delay, was employed by Bill Gates' dad's law firm "Preston Gates", a political proxy for Microsoft. Microsoft succeeded in lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to oppose ODF." What a rediculous statement. Bill Gates Sr. has not been involved with Preston, Gates, Ellis for years. For Perens to try to suggest some kind of MSFT connection with Abramoff via Preston Gates is silly and dishonest. He should be ashamed of himself.
Less insulting than "bitter and impatient" and redirected but still insulting.
this is politics, not Matrix. Quinn's getting the boot isn't some mighty act of evil genius, but rather piling BS that is going on in Boston's Politics as Usual.
More of the same, "Say it ain't so," and it's no harder to understand than it is likely. The CTO is not a political position. File formats are not the kinds of things politicians battle over because no one cares but a few M$ fanboys and people who understand software freedom. Show me a record of Boston Globe front page articles about file formats or CTOs and I'll give you a virtual nickel.
Microsoft will do whatever it needs to do to give themselves advantage by establishing strong foothold on standard
Are you going to admit M$ pulled a smear job that ended Quinn's career? Would you say that's right?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I am too busy being in awe of your ID number to read the transcript.
These things have priorities, you know.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Thanks fr allowing me to read your speach. I thought it was good cohesive and clear stuff. BTW: Are your references (presently displayed as [http://link/file%5D ) intended to be active hyperlinks? And have you edited the Democrat/Republican confusion mentioned elsewhere in here?
Jack Abramoff ...
Why would I want to do that? And who is Abram anyway?
First, lack of incentive. If a manager successfully implements an open source solution, what does he get for it? Nothing. He might save his employer thousands, but he's unlikely to see much of it. So why should he go out of his way and potentially risk his career, unless he's someone who actually cares (my experience of large bureaucracies is that most people don't care that much.
Second, alternative incentives. If you have a supplier that does a decent enough job, and once a year takes you out for a day's karting and beer, are you going to give that up, considering that your employer pays for the karting and beer?
Finally, in the case of government, there are complex and bureaucratic rules that have to be followed that act as a barrier to small suppliers without large teams.
Small businesses are a better target. Remember when clone PCs came along? The people who bought them and created the initial market were small businesses looking to save a few hundred/thousand dollars because it made a big difference to them. Every dollar saved went to the owner (before tax).
Small businesses have a close link between the owner and the front-line staff. There isn't a massive staff manual full of regulations. You do what's right this time to save money. I've worked in giant businesses and offered to save money but couldn't because the way I offered to do it didn't fit into the expenses structure. Small businessmen I've worked for just took the saving.
The businesses that I know that are using ODF are small ones. They don't care about the openness - that's a side benefit. That £300 saving on having to buy an MS Office license by using OpenOffice.org is a big deal to them - it means that after tax, they can buy themselves an iPod, or alternatively, have the budget for half a day with a PR consultant.