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Linux Grows 27.1% in China
prostoalex writes "Boosted by government purchases and SCO UNIX replacements, Linux grew by 27.1% in China in 2005 and generated $11.8 mln for the companies involved."
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The adoption rate should be higher, but it's not taking into account the people in China who pirate Linux.
Sure, there's plenty of piracy in China, but how can you "pirate" GPL'd software?
--jrd
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
But I thought that SCO has a new line of software. If China went exclusivly SCO they would have the potential to rule (sue) the world.
Stay tuned for new sig...
Wow, that sure is.... underwhelming. China is supposed to be a rather large market.
I'd like to see the growth stats for pretty much everything else in China....
I'm willing to bet that MS products grew a lot more than 27%.
My brother has to go there for business on a regular business. He says they're building the equivalent of New York City every year.
This is also why we in the US will be paying $5/gallon for gas soon... not because of our demand but because of Asia's demand.
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
In a country where megacorporations cannot lobby or pressure the government to make certain choices, the natural result is that the government chooses the cheapest product. In the case of Linux, this also turns to be a much safer product than the one most used (Windows). I'm afraid this will give chinese hackers and spammers an advantage over the US.
I wonder now if choosing the right OS is becoming a matter of national security. In any case, I really hope this news gives a nudge to the US, saying "see? The chinese use it, why shouldn't we?"
So...they're using Linux, but it's from SCO. Is this good or bad?
The AC is being funny. If this was the Music Industry, their statement would be something to the extent that the music sales were up, but it would be up twice as high if it weren't for the pirates. You can't pirate GPL software, but you can make a joke on why the numbers aren't higher.
As my Karma Burns: "Burn, Baby Burn, Flames are Getting Higher" - Shawdow Warrior
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
Imressive growth numbers, but a 51.1 million dollar market is puny. ( Especially, if you consider that there's 1.2 Billion people in China. ) Hopefully, it'll grow large enough to warrant the large investment needed to market over there.
You see, for a small company such as mine, I don't have the resources to park there until the market is large enough to support my operations - unlike IBM, MS, SAP, etc... That's were globalization fails. Small companies can't compete with the large multinationals. That's kind of the whole falacy with the globalization raising everyone'sstandard of living.
There's only so much inputs (oil, raw materials, etc...) to go around. Think I'm wrong? Well, I guess the markets are wrong too. Oil, steel, and other raw materials and fuel prices have been skyrocketing (Because the whole world wants to live like the US). But my market is just here in the S.E. US and I don't have the resources to expand into China. So, my costs go up, but my revenues stay the same. My demand curve is quite, how do the ecomonists say it?, elastic. I can't raise prices. But the multinationals, can go and move into China or whereeever and take advantage of the lower labor costs. The result, small entrepreneurial companies can't survive and the multinationals will take over everything. That's just the way it is.
I'm all ears for anyone who says the a small company can survive in this environment - please post solution.
Also, if we in the US are using 25% of the resources (inputs) and we're only 5% of the world's population, how can 100% of the world live like US? They can't. everyone's standard of living will have to be reduced (I'm trying - I'm using much less fuel and food!) or there's going to be very rich and the other 5 billion people will live in poverty -like now.
[obligatory joke about how Free Software == communism]
This article do not have much information. Is the server software or the desktop software that is gaining hold there? Linux has always grown in server market. IMHO, Growth in Desktop market will be a great deal as that helps the growth of the Linux much faster than server growth.
"I'm willing to bet that MS products grew a lot more than 27%. [My brother] says they're building the equivalent of New York City every year." What makes you think the chinese build on sand?
"I'm afraid this will give chinese hackers and spammers an advantage over the US."
And how much GPL software will be used to oppress citizens of China?
I'm curious to know, since I have no idea about the topic, what does market revenue (which is what grew 27.1% according to TFA) exactly mean and how does it relate to the number of people or computers using or running Linux.
I don't read Chinese, so I can only respond to the email advertisements I get in English, but I've tried them all and *I* sure haven't grown 27.1%... maybe I should hire a translator.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
So there are now 121 Linux systems in China?! Go LINUX!
How does an operating system generate millions of dollars? Do they mean save?
It grew from 0.1% to 0.1271%
C-linux "our home made product built for us to own you!"
Neither does the article say *anything* about the replacements being SCO distributions of Linux. Unless you're consciously attempting to troll (not unlikely), I would say RTFA or atleast the F'ing summary before posting. THank you.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
These revenue reports just say "Some geezer made some money off of selling Linux this year". Who cares about that? I want to know how much the number of installed computers increased by.
It is obvious the money sum is not impressive even for slashdotters here, however the strategic gain is somewhere else: by using Linux, China already spared some billions of dollars need not be payed for Microsoft Windows. That's another small drop helping to keep up the huge trade deficit of the opponent empire with them.
There you are, staring at me again.
After long, exhausting and expensive research, China has found out how to buy a free product.
is the distro they run in China.
Uhm, that crap about gas is all wrong.
China has had cars and been using gas for at least as long as the US, if not longer.
they've had vechicles, trucks, planes, you name it.
Have you ever been there? come on, get a clue!
there are more people, and more cars in one city than the US has in the whole country!
so, exactly why is the gas going to SUDDENLY skyrocket now? for no reason?
So what's next years excuse going to be? india ? or some other BS reason for the lack or oil or higher prices?
i know, it'll be some war-related issues.... yawn...
oil prices are down, around $40/barrel but gas is at an all time high. demand isnt up, supply isnt down. the price is just skyrocketing.
and why? because they can!!
consumers are a bunch of freaking sheep! take gas to $10 a gallon now. what will you do? whine and cry and complain, but generally accept it. that's what. yep.
Modify and distribute it and don't provide the source.
Not only that helps Linux,but ensures that a possible patent fight from Microsoft it's likely to cause the ban of microsoft products from china..
Bill Gates said:"I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine" My favorite number is 09 F9 11 02 9D 74
The weaker a person's bonds to social institutions, the more unconventional and deviant their behavior- M. Zlokovich
you should take the time to read and think -- carefully -- about your own signature.
I live in China, in the far far west and in the markets here you can pick up a copy of WindowsXP for 10 RMB - about US$1.25. A copy of Oracle IIi will set you back the grand total of 15 RMB - almost 2 dollars. A copy of Redhat will cost you the same as a copy of Oracle because the pricing is based on the number of CD's.
Tried to find a copy of OSX when we were up in the prefectural capital and they asked 500RMB for it - US$62. We could have haggled but weren't really interested.
If Linux has gained the ground the article says they have then good on them. At the end user level it would be almost impossible to get any meaningful figures.
We hate the Chinese, don't we? Or do we get to make an exception when it has to do with Linux, sort of like exceptions with Microsoft?
i'm not thinking entirely straight this morning.
Linux grew on my computer 100% two years ago, but than it stagnated.
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
are you saying the word 'free' has two meanings?
my password really is 'stinkypants'
And I for one Welcome our new Chinese Overlords. Go communism! Yeah, Red Team! Go, Go, Go!
Darl McBride is right, and Linux is a Communist Plot!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
The theory is sound and I'm solid proof of it. Your point is?
But until I hear from you this up front: Why build a country on microsoft sand when you can build it on solid granite which you already own?
Why don't you take this dicussion to MSDN and discuss that with Dr. GUI?
Slashdot linux zealots conflicted.
I bought a trimmer today. Two models, one made in Mexico, the other China. You know it's getting bad when Made in Mexico beats Made in China, even if it costs more.
If a linux package is distributed commercially, then it can be considered piracy if you as an end user copy the whole thing and share it with your friends.
The reason is that Linux distributions aren't subject to the GPL: mere inclusion of GPL'ed software on the same medium as commercial software does not cause the commercial software to be subject to the GPL.
Therefore, a Linux distribution can include both GPL software (which you can distribute), and commercial software like an installer, or vendor-provided application software, or configuration tools, for instance, which they don't allow you to redistribute.
Without a license for any commercial and non-free software on the Linux CD, Only the specific software that is distributed under the GPL may be copied from commercial Linux CDs, without a separate license to duplicate the software not subject to the GPL.
Yes I do. That is pretty much exactly what I want. The sooner we get through these wars to end all wars the better off we'll be. They are pretty much inevitable and the more we put them off the worse they'll be. We already have evidence of this every time a market correction is delayed.
I'm guessing the oil situation has more in common with welfare than anything else. It has little to do with supply and demand, and a lot to do with a cartel controlling the price and mix of non-USA oil.
...to collapse on their face.
For example, only about 12% of the US energy demand is satisfied by persian gulf oil. A country that wastes as much enery as the USA could cut 12% of it's energy use almost trivially. In fact a lot of countries could...but that would cause oil prices to plunge, and the economies of the OPEC nations to collapse, and all those carefully crafted flows of money like :
USA->OPEC->NATION_BILLIONAIRES->USA INVESTMENT
USA->CHINA->OPEC->NATION_BILLIONAIRES->USA INVESTMENT
(and the myriad of others...)
I'm not going to call it a conspiracy, because I hate that word, but I will say the game is definitely rigged. And whether you're in Europe, or Asia or the USA, or even a citizen in an oil-rich OPEC state, you're all getting buggered by the oil welfare state...it's welfare for billionaires, from what I can tell.
Remember the charts showing the flows of money for the marchall plan of WW2? One of those for the oil industry would probably look very interesting, especially if you took in to the detail of various political entities in Texas and Washington, DC.
Learn more about the oil welfare state :
Arab_Oil_Embargo
OPEC at WP
OPEC at US DOE
Persian Gulf Oil Use by Country
China is nearly not the land of freedom.
So does this mean that China is the land of freedom but is getting close to no longer being so? What does this mean for:
Not even freedom of choiche, let alone freedom of speak.
Then you're back with how great China is with:
So stop that nonsense about corporations' pressure, the only type of pression in China is the one by the Government upon chinese people.
Yeah, I'd like it if the only pressure in the United States was government pressure. (though seriously it'd be stronger if it was the only pressure) Right now in the United States, you have to deal with corporate pressure, organized crime pressure, medical establishment pressure, scientific establishment pressure, organized religion pressure, and the average joe on the street pressure, just to name a few.
The parent poster is 100% right. It's sad how few people understand this. With the way the majority of contemporary American cities are built, it's essentially impossible to introduce efficient mass transit, simply because there are very few places that have sufficient population density to be attractive stops for mass transit. City planning has to be changed first, then people can use more mass transit and use their car less.
For more info, read "Suburban Nation" by Duany et al.
Also, as a counter example, consider San Francisco, which still has a traditional city layout, and functioning mass transit.
Kjella, I think we have spoken before, you are Norwegian right? I recently got back from a trip to Europe, so I would like to point out a few things. One, Americans are not that fat. I saw plenty of fat people while I was in Spain, Italy and yes, even Norway. The main difference is that there are more truly obese people in America than in other countries. The average guy in the US is just slightly more overweight than the average guy in Europe from my experience. (Actually, my experience was that the British I met on the continent, were fatter than the Americans I met there). In fact, several times I was the one suggesting walking here or there, when others wanted taxis.
The 10 minute walk to public transportation is why New Yorkers are more in shape. I agree with you there. The problem is that even in a big city, such as the one where I live (Tampa, FL), my work is at least 15-20km away. By car, it takes 15 minutes to get there. By public transport, I would have a 20 minute walk (I know many people, who couldn't even get out of their neighborhood in 20 minutes of walking), a 1 hour trip and then a half an hour walk back to my job site. So almost two hours, and when you arrived you are soaked in sweat...assuming that you don't have to change buses. Because it is predominantly poor people riding buses (not as true in really large cities) the bus stops are in bad neighborhoods and are usually dangerous. Not my idea of a good time. Nor would it be yours. Many Europeans asked me about this subject while I was there, and I think I figured it out. Europe is conducive to losing weight. I dropped 40 pounds (~20 kilos) in 9 weeks. Heck, walking in the US, is usually not the safest. The streets are loaded with cars, the sidewalks are next to the road and you are always a sneeze away from being killed. I think the lifestyle difference comes down to two things:
1.) You walk...everywhere. I was averaging 3-4km a day (more or less)
2.) Because of all that walking, you are buying your groceries on a daily basis, this means you are eating fresh vegetables, fresh breads, and generally more healthy food.
It is a HUGE advantage! In Europe, it is a pain to find a place for your car. Not true in the states. We had measures that dedicated a lane on the highways for two or more passengers. It was still more convenient for people to bypass that opportunity and wait in longer lines, than find someone who works where you do, who is interested in being dependent on you to get to work. Unless you living next to the person, forget about it. A lot of cities have removed them because the added wait times on the commutes were pumping out more pollution.
Like I said earlier, people aren't going to use it as long as driving a car is inexpensive. I prefer public transportation. If I lived in Alexandria and worked in DC, I would be taking the metro...it is fantastic! DC is made for that though. Large population, hard to expand the roads etc. Ditto with New York.
I am trying to collect some Chinese resources about Linux with laptops, PDAs and mobile phones. But I didn't get much submissions yet.
I live in China. Seriously. 11 Million is like peanuts around here, this country is exploding at a phenomenal rate and to be honest the adoption of 3 ply toilet paper is higher than 27% and it makes a lot more than 11 Million a year. I don't beleive this can be right.
3 Km from a grocery? What kind of shithole do you live in that it is dangerous to take the bus? Thank $DEITY I live in a civilized country they. I can choose from 3 grociers less than 500 meters away from my house. I take the train every to get to work, it's a 30 minute ride + 15 minute walk. People ask me why I don't have a car and I reply I don't need one.
I currently live in Pittsburgh, PA and formerly lived in Cincinnati, OH. I've travelled a bit around the country and generally found that the degree of necessity of cars is directly proportional to how recently the area was built.
...we pay about $6/gallon already.
...but you don't even have proper public transportation where you could.
...last time I was there we bought some stuff in a grocery, and the plastic bags were completely unsuited for carrying. They were barely usable enough to get them out to your car in the parking lot.
Yeah, because of your governments' outrageously high taxes on gasoline. You pay more in taxes than the fuel itself costs.
More bullshit. Every city in the US has public transportation.
Congratulations, you just achieved Ultra Bullshit level. When given a choice, most people choose the plastic bags precisely because they are easier to carry from the store to the home door. And what were you doing with a car, anyway?
So if you're stuck in a corner, I'd say that's because you're painting yourself in there.
No, we drove ourselves out of the corner that you put yourself into, because we didn't like the condescending, full of shit whiners who sit in that corner. Those whiners resent the US because we didn't accept the restrictions on our mobility in the past and as the challenges of the future mount, we'll face them too. So don't put your shit on us, we're getting tired of hearing it.
Other countries cope, if you can't you need to blame something else than geography.
We're coping just fine, thanks. You just keep sitting in that corner waiting for the bus and telling yourself, "we are better, we are better, we are better," instead of "if I were in America, I'd have been there 3 and a half hours ago."
Sorry, but we're not the ones who missed the bus.
3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
For some reason, that statistic makes about as much sense as a rotweiler wearing a tu-tu.
Remember kids, 90% of all statistics are pulled out of someone's ass.
let me rephrase this for you:
"This is also why we in the US will be paying $5/gallon for gas soon... not because of our demand but because of Asia's demand."
It could be written:
"This is why also we in the US will be paying $5+/gallon for gas soon... not because of our demand but because of an increased total worldwide economy. From this economy follows the demand for energy, but also the ability for more people to pay for it. More people (with means to pay) bidding for a limited resource = higher prices."
Not that I really care, but it sounded so myopic. What Americans have bought for all these dollars flowing around the world lessening the economic advantage of the petrodollar is another discussion.
Microsoft just signed $700 million in Chinese contracts in one day last week. Linux's ~$20 million is ~3% of that.
Tampa is not a shithole, but the buses don't service the suburbs in any convenient way. I have never done it, so I am not sure where they go in my area. Let me put it this way. I see buses in my home area maybe...maybe once every 3 weeks or so. In the ghetto, they run, but only because the poor people have no other choice.
W/r/t the groceries, I have three stores at the 3km distance. My three are all at the 3km mark (one might be 2 and change). It takes a while just to leave the neighborhood (5 minutes of solid 5km/hr walking). That is one of the costs of living in a house over an apartment.
--Joey
Since Linux is growing in China, will we be seeing headlines on Slashdot about how Linux violates human rights in China? For some reason, I think we won't.
"Sufferin' succotash."
I found that lots of Chinese doesn't know English. When they get a linux CD. It is likely that they found two issues:
1- Cannot display Chinese or ugly fonts
--- In some distros, asian fonts is optional
--- In most distros, the display of unicode/asian homepage is weird. You can see a combination of varios fonts. For example, a few character using Japanese fonts, most characters use a simplified Chinese fonts and the rest are traditional Chinese.
(Imaginate a document with Arial+Bittream+Courier displaying in random order)
2- Cannot type
--- People usually have to download/apt some modules to enable Chinese input. They may need to edit some configuration files as well. That kick the newbies out.
Most people I know thinking that pirating, fighting virus/spyware and reinstallation once in a while is perfectly normal.
"If you value your National, Corporate, or Personal Security, you WILL get of off ms windoze (the USA's backdoor into your nation, corporation, or home) and use something the USA cannot demand the overseas backdoor encryption access to (ostensibly in the name of hunting criminals...)"
Now, for China, Australia, Japan, Korea... ANY place where there IS or CAN be potential for the US to "wage battlespace war" on these people, they MUST, as a right to national sovereignty and dignity and national, corporate and personal responsibility and duty ditch ms' warez.
But, with me, the patriotism or nationality card won't fly here. I specifically use Linux as my daily box because I despise ms tactics at trying to hem me in. I couldn't wrap my brain around Mac, tho it was nice in a lot of ways to use, and I missed being able to customize the hell out of my old win 3.x desktop with Killer Windows Utilities before the tyrannical, hegemony-minded, lockdown assholes in Redmond came along and screwed all that up for a few years...
But, when there WAS NO Linux around, and win 3x was there, it WAS nice to have a GUI. But, then it was the only game in town. Being the person I am, sort of an underdog, I DESPISE any country, company, or government trying to tell the WHOLE WORLD what to use, do or not use or not do. Being the Linux and Open Source combo seems to be an "equalizer" of sorts, I firmly support THAT ANY day of the week over something that can be controlled by ONE country when that something is used all over the world.
Now, it is GOOD to have the world have choices. If it kills ms, so be it. Fair's fair, and they SURE as hell didn't get so big by being fair or honest or OPEN. Greed and selfishness executed with a vicious or insidious edge and extortion or blackmail of hardware makers is plenty of reason to see a person, company or even country's aims fall apart.
And, as far as IIII am concerned, ANY human forays beyond the moon MUST be an EARTH venture, not a NATIONAL venture. To me, Earth is MORE than about just one country or government. I for one hope there is NEVER manifest destiny, "expansionism" or any of the destructive shit of the human past getting out there. If it does, then humans deserve for a superior species to smack our asses (specifically the governments and policy makers') asses back to the big blue marble and set up a barrier to keep our asses contained until we MATURE.
(Pops Valium, lithium, and sundry of other pills and potions...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Ruthless corporate exploitation of "cheap labor" could also seem to make "current US-style capitalism" seem like "communism in capitalist clothes".
What I mean is this: in the old day, much of US production was IN the US. Little made for use HERE was manufactured outside, until we got Mego and Hasbro products cheaply made in Taiwan, or Hong Kong, or a FEW other places. Even b4 the 70's, it seems LITTLE was made outside the US to be shipped back here.
Now, with "globalization" (nothing new, it's just more pervasive and practiced by MORE than JUST the USA..) of the kind we've seen in the past 8 or 15 years, the US (and other) corporations shareholders and market managers DEMAND that profits go up, costs go down, and markets be expanded. With everyone doing this, serious collisions will happen. Now, if the US leadership is corrupted by power and money, then it's quite obvious that for military and procurement reasons, they and the associated industry forces will constantly HARP on China being a grave threat to US interests outside the USA, yet, for MONEY (sell granny for a fucking buck or two) purposes, China is our MFN trading partner. When hiccups are needed for entropy stimulation, we make or incite enemies to stimulate more military and other growth. But, so long as there are no actual wars between the big countries and ideologies to ruin the markets, then it's OK for the US government to remain corrupt (well, EVERY government is corrupt in some way or another) and just let US businesses set up shop and profit in "Communist Regimes".
To me, political names, slandering, and ideological sparring is just disgusting and stupid. At the end of the day, it's NOT the average citizen or taxpayer who is angling to kick some ass. It's the game-makers, the brinkmanship hard-up politicos who want THEIR ideas foisted upon others at almost ANY cost...
So, in the end, if we can all agree on something, maybe to be nasty or maybe to pull open some eyelids, there are ways life in in the US can be equated to the best and worst aspects of almost any form of government.
Too bad there aren't any powerful ETs to come along and ask the PEOPLE what it is the hell they want. If we got our wishes, every major government on Earth would be rebuilt... until some petty assholes angling for money and power sneak back into the system and screw it all up again...
(Pops pills and downs 3-in-1 coffee packs to calm down...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The point is that Made in Mexico slaughters Made in China. That he was willing to pay more for MADE IN MEXICO (and perhaps no other reason) is the point. It's well known that Made in China really means, Made like crap and made to break so buy two! God help them in the quest for Space. Imagine sitting on the rockets then looking up at a "Made in China" sticker on your capsule. LET ME OUT OF HERE!!!
this is just the growth rate of linux and not the market share. i would like to see a full analysis of market share compared to other systems.
frankly speaking, 27.1% growth is pretty small for me. in absolute terms, it may be even measly in terms of numbers compared to the adoption of other countries. given the $11.8 million, i believe it should be way bigger than that given china's size.
Live your life each day as if it was your last.
You can't pirate GPLed software, but you can pirate the proprietary stuff that a lot of distros package alongisde all the FOSS stuff, eg installers, config tools, etc.
It's official. Most of you are morons.