Square's Next MMOG For PS3/Windows

Gamespot reports that Square/Enix's next Massively Multiplayer Online Game will be a PS3/Windows Vista title. From the article: "While talking up Treasures of Aht Urhgan--the game's latest expansion--FFXI producer Hiromichi Tanaka commented that his team is now working on a new massively multiplayer online role-playing game for Windows Vista and the PlayStation 3. He also shared his thoughts on porting games to new hardware, including bringing FFXI to the PS3 as well as the PlayStation Portable." More details are likely at E3. Update: 04/20 14:03 GMT by Z : Link fixed.

Comments

WoW envy

[elrous0]

Yeah! The PS3 will be the first on the block to get a MMORPG that no one plays!

Victory is theirs!

-Eric

Re:WoW envy

[dc29A]

Not sure how it would work out for PS3. Keyboard for MMOGs is pretty much required, especially if the game is action oriented with multiple skills/talents/abilities like City of [Heroes|Villains] or WoW. Sitting in your couch with a keyboard on lap is not the ideal setting to play a MMO where you need to type a lot and use hotkeys. This game probably won't have custom UI like WoW because after 3-4 addons it gobs already 64+ megs of ram. Since PS3 memory is not like a PC, they will be limited in storing data in memory, or swap a lot, meaning lot of time spent zoning, zoning sucks. WoW has shown that is possible to eliminate most zoning vs games like EQ where you constantly zoned from one area to another.

Not to mention the typical console player doesn't really care about MMOs. How many console gamers have high speed internet pipe that is pretty much a requirement for these games?

And finally, if the MMO gets major graphics upgrades, will the PS3 able to handle it 5 years for now. Everquest got a major graphics overhaul, IIRC DAoC also. Pretty sure other games will get major overhauls during their lifetimes.

I think the companies are jumping on the let's do an MMO bandwagon after seeing WoW's huge success, and all this without much thought.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, the PS2 got that first, it's called Final Fantasy XI. :grin:

I'm actually surprised to hear that they're still supporting it, it's the first I've heard about it in nearly two years (minus the XBox360 port). I guess it being a Square-Enix game they must have a large following in Japan, but I don't know anyone in the US who plays it.

Re:WoW envy

[hal2814]

"Keyboard for MMOGs is pretty much required"

People said the same thing about keyboard and mouse for FPS games a few years ago. While that may be ideal, there are a large number of FPS games on consoles nowadays and most of them play just fine. Just because nobody has figured out a good way to translate MMOG controls to a console controller yet doesn't mean they won't be able to in the future.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

If you dont like it, dont play it. Thankfully WoW isn't the only MMO that people play.

It's impossible to stop WoW at this point; we just have to wait for people to get completely sick of it. It usually takes about 3 months for hard-core gamers, and 6-7 months for casual gamers. For most people the treadmill will get old and they will move on. Right now most players are in love with the game (god help them).

Because of all the new grinds blizzard adds to the game, WoW addicts probably wont ever consider trying another MMO, or any other game for that matter. Farming bosses for purples and grinding trash mobs for Rep. all the while they are forgetting that there are other things out there, things other than their precious WoW.

I wouldnt call it WoW envy though. I would call it an alternative for people who, for the most part, are not willing to give it a chance.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Square-Enix's first MMORPG, FFXI, was five times the grind (and one-tenth the fun) of WoW. They're probably working on a new MMORPG to try and win back the massive number of people they lost when WoW was released.

Re:WoW envy

[TheJediGeek]

This will probably be the second MMO for PS3. Unless it releases at launch.

This will be the first one for PS3

Re:WoW envy

[falcon5768]

how do you figure?

FFXI did very well for a MMO, prior to WoW and Lin2 it was the 2nd best selling MMO of all time and is still number 4 at 650,000. Likewise they still are turning a huge profit, enough of one that their Japanese players got a second strategy based MMO called Fantasy Earth not long after, though SE wont release it here cause there is little market for a strategy based MMO in their opinions on the NA market.

EQ isn't even close in the number of people they had at the most popular, and that was considered the "to beat" game for years in the MMO circle.

People want MMO's on the smaller systems. All of them sept Gamecube can accept keyboards and the controller is remarkably good in player movement, much better than the mouse or keys are, especially when you consider its not a FPS that requires precision just movement of character/camera. If Blizzard could have gotten their head out of their asses they would have known this, but then the company cant even get Ghost out, and from all indications have no interest in the market, only in the PC/Mac market.

If SE can put out a game similar to FFXI that works with the hard-cores, while keeping in the improvements they made in the last year in updates/new expansion that caters to the casuals with easy XP, solo and small group (3-4) oriented content AND put it out for the PS3/360/Vista, they will have a goldmine by the time it comes out, unless Blizzard can get their act together and see that computer gaming is on its way out.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

0.65 million versus 6 million - hmmmmmm

Yep, I'm sure blizzard is really running scared about squeenix releasing another mmorpg. definately worried.

Or maybe, just maybe, blizzard is already wildly more successful than squeenix ever was in the mmorpg market, and your analysis is just maybe a tad inaccurate.

Re:WoW envy

[feral_wombat]

I had no issues playing Everquest Online Adventures for the PS2 with a keyboard and controller then moved over to FFXI with the same setup before moving on to Lineage and EQ2 on my computer. Sure, EQOA and FFXI didn't have the customization element to it, but it doesn't need to have that in order to be fun.

My wife and I even had two televisions set up next to each other, her on her PS2, me on mine. We had some great times and I even wish my PS2 could handle EQ2 because I'd be back on the couch in a second.

Re:WoW envy

[cheetah]

I play both WoW and FFxi. Both are good games but VERY differnet from each other. I will say that WoW is much more casual friendly. I am honestly surprised by the continued growth in population in FFxi. Sure I know alot of people that have quit the game for one reasion or another but it always seems like someone takes their place. The numbers I have seen online suggest that FFxi has had about a 50% growth in the last year or so. And that would jive with what I see in-game. And most of the new people aren't Japanese. I would say new people are about 70% NA and 30% EU. So what I guess I am getting at is that FFxi isn't even on the decline yet even though I agree that it does get much press and it has a much smaller player base than WoW (~700k vs ~6Mil).

p.s. one odd thing, about 40% of the people that I know who quit FFxi for WoW have since quit WoW and are playing FFxi again.

Re:WoW envy

[cheetah]

Yeah, no doubt that WoW has a bigger following than FFxi but his point is somewhat valid. I don't really see anyone beating WoW's player base (over the next 2 years or so) but it could happen someday. Do I think that SE would beat them because they have a game that runs on PS3/Xbox and the PC, no way. But I think it's safe to say WoW would add more users if they supported the PS3/Xbox. I think multiplatform games are the wave of the future but WoW is a big success without multiplatform support. Being multiplatform only allows more people to buy the game. But the game has to drive people to buy it.

Re:WoW envy

[elrous0]

Not sure how it would work out for PS3. Keyboard for MMOGs is pretty much required

Well, at least consoles have the capability of doing voice chat, which most PC MMORPG's still don't support. Having a limited number of controls on the controller will be a disadvantage, but it's good that teammates will be able to communicate with each other without having to use Teamspeak or some other 3rd party solution.

-Eric

Re:WoW envy

[falcon5768]

dont worry about the AC, he has a history of following me and spounting WoW fanboy crap any post I make.

I might be somewhat a FFXI fanboy myself, but its only cause I played both games and saw the weaknesses Blizzard has in WoW, the biggest being a lack of storyline and the sheer lack of high lvl content on a game where it's inherantly designed for high lvl players.

Battlegrounds and ganking low lvls who stray into contested areas can only support people for so long. And players are getting tired of killing HNMs for that .5% increase in damage over a weapon of the exact same design and shape.

While I am sure the expantions going to be a huge draw because of the added new races and such, give it another year and a half and I have a feeling Blizzard will be seriously hurting unless they start addressing the endgame problems. As it is I know of a lot of FFXI players who left because of the timesink issues to play WoW only to come back because of the endgame issues and lack of a feeling of accomplishment that WoW gave them after a few months. While there are plenty of people who really dont care about that stuff, you need to adress both sides not one or the other.

SE saw the timesink problems, which is why there are a huge number of ways to get XP now, from scrolls, jobs who can actually boost XP (Corsar has a actual move that if lucky boosts XP gain for a short time) gear that gives XP bonus, instances that give XP AND you can purchase XP with points upon finishing and even the new signat for the added zones gives a XP bonus while worn. Bliz still hasnt address the endgame issues which as this point it really should have.

Re:WoW envy

[zerocool^]

unless Blizzard can get their act together and see that computer gaming is on its way out.

Stop.

Just... Stop.

When you can play F.E.A.R., counterstrike:source, C&C Generals:zero hour, Eve Online, and Civ IV without a mouse and a high-def monitor 18 inches from your nose, let me know.

Re:WoW envy

[blueZhift]

I agree, the two games are very different, or at least feel that way. I've played FFXI for the last two years and decided to give WoW a try. After a couple of months I dropped WoW and went back to FFXI in part because I just preferred the FFXI aesthetic, but the final straw was not being able to logon to WoW more than half the time.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.mmogchart.com/

Because being #4 means no one plays it...

Re:WoW envy

[DeadChobi]

Some of us quit playing World of Timesink and FFXI because both games had the capacity to eat our schedules whole. I got into a high-level raiding guild last college quarter, and I had to quit two weeks into the quarter because I realised that I wasnt going to be able to participate in everything they did and still go to all my classes.

The problem that I had with FFXI was their requirement of a 5-person party for everything. I didnt enjoy having to sit in zones typing "42THF LFP" for an hour so that I could spend 30 minutes getting crap experience before someone screwed up and wiped the entire group. Skilled parties in FFXI were so few and far between for me that I clearly remember what the party was composed of, and why it didnt suck.

There was also a huge problem I had with the subjob eliteists who would not accept me into their party without a specific job/subjob combination. It was really annoying getting invited, then removed because I was subbing Warrior and they wanted that extra 4 DEX from an offhand. Nevermind that my damage from Sneak/Trick was capped anyway, so even if I had more +DEX/+AGI gear, I could never actually break the cap.

Finally, I quit playing THF and started leveling WAR, then eventually I just quit because I realised that there was nothing I could do with less than an 8 hour time investment.

Both games have their problems. WoW's problem centers more around the complete lack of casual content. They say they're designing a casual-friendly game, then they turn around at endgame and dont release any dungeons for less than 20 people. When they do release small-group endgame dungeons, the equipment provided is not consistent with the rest of the endgame. Their solution to casual-friendly playing is to not give casuals any decent equipment. Then they dont seperate people into different battlegrounds, so the hardcore players grind casuals all day.

Re:WoW envy

[BecomingLumberg]

Due to a severe case of Jet lag after visiting Japan, I found myself primarily playing with Japanese players back when i played FFXI. I can't speak Japanese other than ordering food and finding the lav, but using the auto translator I was able to get along well enough. Given, it still required the first two keystrokes to get by, I am sure there is a way around that.

That said, I still don't think a portable MMO is worthwhile, since the only time I am on the move for that long at once is on road trips... which would require EVDO or similar uses to work. Maybe eventually, but not yet...

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Please mod -1 flamebait, this guy's argument reminds me of Intel's early arguments. Nobody uses a non Intel chip. Intel chips forever! Now replace Intel chip with WoW and you have this guy's moronic defence. Pretending competition isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. Yes WoW is by far the largest MMO ever. Yes WoW is a good game. But just because the other games "only have a few hundred thousand people" playing doesn't mean nobody plays them. Now please, just go farm some purple or pink or whatever gear that gives you a hard on.

Re:WoW envy

[falcon5768]

why without a mouse. only the gamecube doesnt have mouse support. and 360 and PS3 have high def support. But sales speak for themselves. PC's will always have the cooler games yes, but PC gaming has been a MAJOR slump for years and even the huge hit WoW was didnt pull it out.

Re:WoW envy

[falcon5768]

oh and to answer your question

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/show_blog_entry .php?topic_id=24533453

looks like thats one of the games you wanted to brag about

Re:WoW envy

[mjhacker]

Thank you for being intelligent.

It might interest some people who think that this game is "dying" to know that the new expansion has (in my area) completely sold out in every store, forcing me to possibly buy it online and wait to get it shipped. Hundreds of copies of this game vanished the first day it was available. Do people buy expansions to dying games? No.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

yep, sure, gotta be a stalked, can't just be that wow is, by your own numbers, 10 times more popular than ffxi. whether you wanna admit it or not, theres just more people playing wow than ffxi, period. suggesting that blizzard would even care what squeenix is doing is laughable.

Re:WoW envy

[steveo777]

Wait, did you say MMO Strategy? WTF? I WANT THIS!!! Well, better sign up for classes in Japanese... sigh...

Re:WoW envy

[AuMatar]

Some do support it- Dungeons and Dragons Online, for example.

Ignoring that- I find a good teamspeak or ventrillo server is FAR better than any built in voice chat I've ever used. I'd rather just have in game bindings for connecting a TS client to a given server and room than having them write a voice comm program as part fo the game.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

at least consoles have the capability of doing voice chat, which most PC MMORPG's still don't support.

Yeah, because it's so easy to immerse myself in a tale of epic high fantasy adventure in a world where most of the orcs, elves, and dwarves, male and female alike, sound like whiny 13-year-old boys.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

You cry like girl. You no have reality kinship. WoW is super happy good time.

Re:WoW envy

[elrous0]

Beats having to frantically pound away at your keyboard when your team/guild is in a fight. That's why all the best guilds use Teamspeak (can't imagine functioning without it in any tough dungeon run or large-scale battle).

Besides, if you really want to RP and don't want to hear it, it's just like any other channel. You can just turn it off.

-Eric

Re:WoW envy

[Cornflake917]

Google "Shattered Galaxies" or "Navy Field." The graphics are old school on both, but they are still fun and you can try them for free.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

I rest my case.

Re:WoW envy

[Reapman]

So when I went in to EB Games just now and was told to come back next week because they only had enough FFXI Expansion disks for preorders I guess "nobody" was the one buying em all up. This reminds me of a comic, where the kids blamed stuff on "nobody" "notme" "someone else" etc etc.

Re:WoW envy

[Khaotix]

The big problems I see are

a) If they put console-players and PC-players in the same world/realm/whatever. I'd love it if Halo 2 supports console vs PC ... it'd have to be 5 on 1 just to keep things "even".

b) If they dumb down/scale the UI/game so it functions better on Console (see Oblivion)

Re:WoW envy

[AvitarX]

Lots of pre-orders = we buy stock for shelves.

few pre-orders = we don't want any extra.

Re:WoW envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, more likely, no store bothered stocking an expansion to a dieing game and the 10 people in your area who still play were fighting for the 4 copies in stores.

Re:WoW envy

[Reapman]

I guess the stack of 20 copies I saw was fake huh. I had the same problem with WoW btw when it first came out. Both times I ended up buying one of the few copies left at Futureshop.

Re:WoW envy

[Hubbell]

WoW has shown that is possible to eliminate most zoning vs games like EQ where you constantly zoned from one area to another


Little tidbit of info for you:
Asheron's Call was doing this in 1998.

Re:WoW envy

[Khaotix]

While I've slowly accepted that console FPSing isn't as horrible as it was before (GRAW has a decent move/look setup) I still don't think it's anywhere near as good a a kb/m setup.

what gives?

[apoc06]

is there a link to the story?

Re:what gives?

[apoc06]

link to article: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147946.html

Re:what gives?

[Jearil]

article link they're referring to is:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147946.html

I'd also like to point out another article that SquareEnix themselves published:

http://www.ffxifestival.com/devpanel.html

That second one doesn't refer to a PS3 version at all actually. It only talks of a new MMORPG for the 360 and Vista. It's near the bottom:

During E3 2005 we announced that the FINAL FANTASY XI development team had begun work on a next generation MMORPG for the Xbox 360 and Windows Vista. We can't talk too much about the next generation MMORPG, but we're sure you'll find it very exciting.

So I'm going to guess they'll do all 3, but I suppose we'll find out more info at E3.

From the article

[farker haiku]

From the article

huh?

Allow me to summarize this descriptive article

[voice_of_all_reason]

- a new video game
- it will be released
- sometime between now and the destruction of the universe

Re:Allow me to summarize this descriptive article

[jayhawk88]

Yeah, but what about the melee class, OMG they're overpowered, NERF!!!1!

Jumpgate Mk2

[CogDissident]

Jumpgate: The massivly multiplayer online role playing game with an extremely realistic space simulation...

And nobody showed up.

Re:Jumpgate Mk2

[Anonymous Coward]

Always nice to see another Jumpgate fan out there. Netdevil did some fantastic things with very meager resources. It was a great gaming experience, one of the best that I have had in all of my years of gaming.

Now, if you will excuse me, this retired Octavian has to go find some Sol babies to eat.

Re:Jumpgate Mk2

[Anonymous Coward]

The only decent space MMO that reached 'critical mass' was Eve, unfortunately.

Jumpgate, Vendetta - they could have been freakin awesome! The problem is having accessability and content. There were PvP issues in Jumpgate (I remember an entire pirate guild got banned from that game at one point) - and not enough ship customization in Vendetta.

And when you have a huge space sim, the game seems very empty with only 40 players online.

Re:Jumpgate Mk2

[iapetus]

Surely with a sufficiently realistic space simulation it wouldn't much matter how many people turned up? Space is big enough that most of the time you wouldn't see anyone else anyway. :)

Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 360 is doing very badly but you would think game companies would wait until after E3 and November to start dropping support for the new Xbox.

And this isn't the only company this week to skip the 360. The new Brothers In Arms was just announced for the PS3 and Windows.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[MindStalker]

Oddly enough the article http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147946.html says "The Xbox 360 operating system shares enough similarities with Windows, he said, so that porting the Windows version of FFXI to the 360 was a fairly quick task. A PS3 version of FFXI, on the other hand, would require redeveloping the game almost from scratch, a process that Tanaka estimated would take two or three years."

Which is virtually the opposite. So why are they annoucing it for the PS3 then saying it could take a few extra years to get on the PS3. A few years time between PC launch and PS3 launch would be death to the PS3 launch. Rather pointless really.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think because there are two different games that are being talked about. And being confused in the article summary.

FFXI already exists for Windows and that is where the Xbox 360 version came from.

The new MMORPG doesn't exist for anything yet - but is in development on the PS3 and Vista. Square must have an incredibly dim outlook for the Xbox 360 if they aren't going to give the machine a port of the Vista version.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[Jearil]

Actually they probably are:

http://www.ffxifestival.com/devpanel.html

During E3 2005 we announced that the FINAL FANTASY XI development team had begun work on a next generation MMORPG for the Xbox 360 and Windows Vista. We can't talk too much about the next generation MMORPG, but we're sure you'll find it very exciting.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[zoomba]

... either Square has a dim view of the XBox 360 or.... They're a Sony crew! Square has been tied hard and fast to Sony for many years now, so it's no surprise that they'd focus on that platform first and foremost.

Vista is actually the most logical "second" platform for them to code for since PCs are still the main base for MMOs. Consoles are growing in this area, but they're a very small percentage overall so far. Sony is probably paying Square a pretty penny for the exclusive console rights for the next hot MMO too, it can be used as a selling point for the PS3.

Saying that Square is already giving up on the 360 because their next MMO isn't being primarily developed for it is like saying Blizzard is giving up on the PS3 because they're remaining largely a PC development house. It doesn't make sense.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

There do appear to be a few articles out there talking about a new Square MMORPG coming to the 360 but it appears that people are confusing FFXI and the new game.

Or Square did consider doing a 360 version, but has since decided to drop the 360 version.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

why would they port FFXI to PS3? I thought the PS3 could run PS2 games? I think you missed the part where this article was about the next multiplayer game....

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[falcon5768]

no they are likely putting out for both.

the thing was at fan fest the producer commented on the fact that as of that time, they didnt even know what the PS3 was going to even BE like, since they didnt have a Dev version yet.

It probably will be out for both systems its just they never mentioned it in the second article.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[Mongoose]

You mean like how the 360 version came out year(s) after the PS2 version?

Next.

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[drewmca]

Meme police here again!

Please cease and desist.

In other news, the Bush administration has been caught posting on religious forums with quotes like "now that Islam has pretty much been abandoned by most people...."

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[drewmca]

Oh, and you may want to check this out:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/brothersina rms3/news.html

"Next chapter of Gearbox's Brothers in Arms franchise named, confirmed for PS3, Xbox 360, PC; dated for holiday season."

Re:Kind Of Early To Be Abandoning The 360?

[mjhacker]

A PS3 port for FFXI is necessary because, while the PS3 can play PS2 games, the PS2 version has severe graphical limitations. With the PS3, you could put the graphics back on par with the 360 and PC versions, and actually make it look nice on an HDTV (FFXI on PS2 on my HD looks really blocky).

Obligatory batman sounds

[Spy der Mann]

huh?

*ZONK!*

Time for something New

[sulliva]

Isn't it time that new MMOs take a different direction? Different types of games brought into a MMO environment seem like they'd do well. Atari's Test Drive Unlimited seems to be headed close to that direction. MMO's can be so much more than slaying dragons and fighting in space.

PSP FFXI?

[Da Rabid Duckie]

Wait a second... an MMO on the PSP? Think of the potential for this... Gold farming anywhere, on the go! Lose your job or fail in college while you're actually there now!

Then there's the issue of the reduced battery life when the wi-fi switch is on. Anytime I've wanted to play online with my PSP I've always found myself becoming attached to the nearest wall unit via an umbilical charging cable, which I feel sort of defeats the purpose of a handheld unit. The party mechanics of the game also somewhat dooms the concept to failure, as it can sometimes take an hour to find a good party, and then they'll want to play for no less than two hours. By then, a PSP user's battery would likely be dead... or worse yet, would go dead during a big fight. If there was a way to make the game more playable in 20min-1hr fixes, it'd work. But the 4-5 hour stretches that the game tends to demand? I really don't think that's viable. If I'm going to sit at my desk, chained to the PSP's charging cable, then I'll just play it on my PC.

Re:PSP FFXI?

[apoc06]

the article mentions changes in the gameplay to suit shorter playtimes.

in order to play a MMO, you have to be in range of a wi-fi point anyways, so i dont agree with your major gripe with being plugged in. you can move around and plug in when necessary. otherwise, you can spring for one of those external battery packs, or one of the new larger capacity batteries.

Re:PSP FFXI?

[hal2814]

"Gold farming anywhere, on the go!"

I just got this image in my head of people all across the country looking like the tech-mining Chinamen in C&C Generals.

Re:PSP FFXI?

[Guppy06]

You're forgetting the main hurdle: lugging around a USB keyboard (and mini-USB adapter). So long as they rely on multi-language servers and their auto-translate, the most you'll see is a proof-of-concept PSP FFXI client.

A new Square-Enix MMO? Hooray!

[TooMuchEspressoGuy]

Now I can spend *another* seventy-five levels fighting crabs! Heck, they could even call it "Crab Fighter 2.0" and it would be a pretty accurate name.

In all seriousness, though, I hope they make it better than FFXI, which was essentially a tear-your-hair-out collection of aggrevating timesinks. Since quitting, WoW and EQ2 have shown me how fun the MMO genre can actually be without resorting to things like having "very easy" mobs kill you more often than not and instituting a crafting system where you still fail 1/10 of the time on a level 1 item at max skill.

Re:A new Square-Enix MMO? Hooray!

[MikeFM]

I love the FF family of games but was disappointed at FF Online. I find it just as boring as I find EQ, EQ2, WoW, and every other game of the type. Essentially they are fancy IM programs with a sucky boring game attached. Only the chat gives any purpose to playing at all. Wake me when somebody invents a MMORPG that isn't frustrating, dull, and essentially plotless.

The only fun things about FF Online (and EQ2, etc) was checking out the almost-nude girls (woo that was xciting for about 2 seconds) and the interesting effects they have such as fireworks on the 4th of July, Halloween costumes, etc. It's all just to formulated to be fun.

I refuse...

[rAiNsT0rm]

To upgrade my OS to Vista purely for games, and I also will not get caught up in the 360/PS3 and attached format war, so it looks my only gaming will be XP Pro and the Revolution with the DS for portability for some time.

Vista offers nothing of value or interest and I really don't see a mass switch to Vista happening so the least amount of sales MS sees should hopefully stop this new "trend" of claiming new games will be Vista-only.

Re:I refuse...

[SScorpio]

The whole Vista only thing is very likely due to the games being designed for DirectX 10 which will only be on Vista. This is because of a graphics subsystem rewrite that can't(won't) be back ported. This change in the display system isn't being aggressively advertised, but from my reading it will cause a performance increase.

There is also the change is how hardware is going to be DX10 certified. Now your hardware must support every feature in hardware to claim compatibility. So no more ATI X8(0/5)0s which claim DX9.c support, but they don't support the full Pixel Shader 3 model.

Re:I refuse...

[rAiNsT0rm]

Oh, I fully understand and agree... except that DX10 COULD be ported to xp if they wanted to, they just WON'T in hopes that this will force the consumers hand. I think it will fail. Just MHO but developers right now need to reach the largest audience as possible to attempt to make money, and depending on sales numbers for Vista (which I believe will be low) Developers will go elsewhere (Mac?) and that is the kind of paradigm shift I would like to see. A company finally crushed by it's heavy handed business practices. Sony and MS are both on pace to damage themselves due to this type of business "strategy" and I really hope for all of our sake that they go down in a blaze of unglory.

Re:I refuse...

[Haeleth]

DX10 COULD be ported to xp if they wanted to, they just WON'T in hopes that this will force the consumers hand.

That's because selling stuff is what companies do. It can't have escaped your notice that Apple, too, makes a habit of restricting new technologies like Spotlight to the latest version of their OS. There's no reason why Spotlight couldn't be ported to Panther, Apple just WON'T. Because it wouldn't make any business sense to.

developers right now need to reach the largest audience as possible to attempt to make money, and depending on sales numbers for Vista (which I believe will be low) Developers will go elsewhere (Mac?)

The only serious competition Vista faces is Microsoft's very own Windows XP. Regardless of how many XP users upgrade to Vista, the largest audience possible will be reached by developing for XP, since Vista is backwards-compatible.

As for the Mac... sorry, but it's simply out of the question. If a developer is motivated by audience size, as you yourself propose, then why would they switch to developing for the platform with the smallest marketshare? Seriously, however badly Vista sells, it will have at least 10% of the market based on OEM sales alone, and the combined Vista/XP platform will still cover the vast majority of PC users. Apple, even with its record growth recently, is still languishing in the single figure range. Developers target Mac users for a variety of reasons, but audience size ain't one of them.

My Dvorak-like prediction:

[Achoi77]

Handheld MMOs are the future. As we begin to see more and more wifi access being readily available, what's really going to sell the handheld systems - especially in Japan - is going to be the wave of online rpgs coming forth. (I'm referring to the PSP and the DS, since those two are the only systems I am aware of with wifi connectivity). Yes yes, I am aware the DS is selling very well in Japan, but just wait untill something like pokemon the mmo comes out for the DS. You won't be able to stock the shelves fast enough. That is, of course, if they don't have any problems running their MMO servers...

Re:My Dvorak-like prediction:

[SenatorOrrinHatch]

I'll personally alert the head of Sony of your opinion, while my secretary calls a shareholder meeting to discuss it.

Re:My Dvorak-like prediction:

[Daravon]

That is, of course, if they don't have any problems running their MMO servers...

The first rule of MMO's is that fanboys don't care if your servers are running. It's still "The greatest game evar, and all MMO's have server problems so it's ok that this one does too."

Mod parent up

[CrazyJim1]

Theres nothing you can't do with windows98 that you can do with windows vista when it comes to programming a game. They just 'struck a deal' to do this. I also refuse to buy any windows vista only video games.

Sadly...

[SanityInAnarchy]

The Mac doesn't have anything compelling that is "Mac-only" when it comes to games. Apple is being bitten now by doing the Right Thing and going with open standards such as OpenGL.

So, people developing games for the Mac won't topple MS. Why? Because it won't be too much work to make them work on Windows (which also has OpenGL), or hell, even on Linux. If developers find Windows lacks the features they need from OpenGL, Nvidia and ATI will rush to support them, if as many developers start doing this as you hope. They've done it once before -- Doom 3 and Quake 4 are exclusively OpenGL, no DirectX renderer at all, and because there's actually competition between Nvidia and ATI, neither will take the chance that "Doom 3 only works on Nvidia -- the Way it's Meant to be Played" or "Quake4 only works on ATI..."

In fact, if I ever write a game, I'm definitely going for the largest audience possible -- I'll write it for Mono/.NET, so I don't have to do any portability code at all. I'll just let my users know when I can't find a feature of OpenGL that they need, and give them a bootable Linux so they can know whether to buy new hardware or complain to their OS/driver providers...

It's a pipe dream, but I kicked ass at that game.

Why care about such silly things?

[Nazmun]

I don't understand why one cares about things like formats, companies, or whatever... Are you purchasing the Revolution because of it's popularity in the online presses for the controller and the cheap price and Nintendo's "focus on games" (which is rather a rather laughable statement really--the hardware division is responsible for it's part while the devs are responsibel for making awesome games)?

If your purchasing the Revolution because your favorite games or genre of games will be on it then kudos to you. I will be buying the ps3 unless the xbox360 and less likely the revolution woo's me with much greater games. Which at this point both look highly unlikely (i keep my pc up to date and that negates 90% of the reason for me to want an xbox).

Re:Why care about such silly things?

[rAiNsT0rm]

Well, my main reasoning and rationale come from my personal experience. I have worked as a writer/reviewer as well as an analyst and retail specialist in the gaming industry. I also worked directly with Sony for a number of years, so I have some insight and real hard facts behind my intentions.

Media format wars are not a major issue in other tech industries like the PC market, but in a console it is a life or death venture. Blu-Ray has been widely accepted as having only 30% market penetration by a number of analysts and a very low initial sales coupled with an expensive media and player but having much better features and damage protection. You cannot swap out a drive in a console like you can in a PC when you bought a DVD-RAM drive and DVD+/-R becomes the winner. Also, the bigger reason has to do with manufacturers. Just like UMD, new formats that do not take off and become wildly popular very quickly are expensive and get ignored.

Those issues as well as cost, DRM, features, and innovation among others all factor in my decision. The Xbox 360 would be useful to me if it were not dependent on Media Center for some of the extra features. The PS3 is too much of a gamble with no real benefits to me personally (and partially why I parted ways with the company) I have no faith in the technology or the marketing and strongly believe it will be Sony's downfall. Just my opinion, but one I believe fully.

Nintendo is championing a number of things I have been calling for for years. Complete backwards compatability, smaller less complex and expensive games (not every game needs to be 40 hours and cost $60), Indie/single developer support (this is huge and a my main selling point, so many amazing games get passed by every day because they are not "marketable"), low cost of entry, well established hardware and dev systems, and last but certainly not least A CHANGE FROM THE NORM. Innovativeness, creativity being brought back into gaming. Hardware, software, both are being seen for what they are: stale, derivitive, and bland. It is time that someone shook up this industry and began to dig out of the 40ft. ruts we are in. FPS, gangtsta sim, cliche RPG, running on teh uber-est hardware with 40bazillion textels per nanosecond running on 37 processors that does nothing for the end user except make the hoe he is slapping look more realistic that the last 12 games in the series.

I am a creative person, it is why I got into games, all I see from the game industry side are sweatshops completely devoid of real creativity and a culture that actually punishes thinking outside the box. That is why so many top talents have broken away or left completely, they don't want to pump out code all day for some pre-designed engine to make yet another shooter. I don't either. I want a change, personally, and that is why *I* support the Revolution. I have no ties to Nintendo and never have, this time it is personal.