Slashdot Mirror
Greenpeace's Custom Underwater Giant-Squid-Cam
Seagull76 writes "Check out this 1 minute video with Greenpeace's underwater photo/videographer and deep sea toy specialist, Gavin Newman, aboard the Esperanza.
After months of confronting whalers and pirates, some might envy the crew aboard the next leg of Defending Our Oceans who are heading to the beautiful Azores in the mid-Atlantic. For this leg of the expedition, the Esperanza has been equipped with state of the art monitoring equipment, including a remote operating vehicle (ROV) which can shoot video down to a depth of 300m, and a drop camera capable of reaching depths of 1,000 metres - giant squid territory! The ship will become part of the ongoing University of the Azores research program intended to establish greater scientific knowledge of the importance of deep-sea habitats and marine life. "
What all slashdotters really want to see is a giant squid - not Gavin's toys.
And I have one for you. Giant Squid in its Natural Habitat
Seriously, youtube has an interesting video of a largish humbolt squid and a dissection of a real giant squid at the London Natural History Museum.
Oh - and a Coral Cache Mirror in case Gavin's video dies.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Misread the title as "Greenpeace's Custom Underwater Giant-Squid-Scam".
;-)
:-p
Then I saw things about a toy specialist and it really got me wondering.
Bah, as so often with misreads, the real story was boring in comparison.
I want Greenpeace squid scam conspiracies with toy specialists!
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Just to clarify, the video is just this guy describing and showing the camera itself. There doesn't seem to be actual video from the thing viewable. Shame.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Did you really need to give us an excuse to make fun of the French?
... I think he must've been headbutted by a whale at some point!
The ship will become part of the ongoing University of the Azores research program intended to establish greater scientific knowledge of the importance of deep-sea habitats and marine life.
Giant squid have already been photographed in their natural habitat by Japanese scientists. Greenpeace is a radical political organisation with little scientific credibility. Marine science is already in more capable hands. One can only wonder about their real motivations.
After months of confronting whalers and pirates...
It takes one to know one.
an ill wind that blows no good
They Shoot Greenpeace terrorists on the high seas.
Of course then they would limited to actual research instead of political stunts. Almost all of histories most famous research ships were wooden sailing ships and greenpeace spits on the legacy.
They need exposed as the frauds they are and for people to stop accepting the lie that they are an environmental group. They are a political group that has done more to harm environmental progress (look at their record on nuclear energy for a prime example) than anybody short of big industry.
This coming from someone /has/ worked in the recycling industry, doesn't drive a big car gives to environmental causes and so on. Give money to legitimate environmental groups, live responsibly and let this political whore / quasi terrorist organization die.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! (oh come on, somebody had to didn't they ;)
Yeah, I 'might' envy the crew if I wanted to belong an eco-terrorist organization!
Oh dear God, "eco-terrorist" huh? I guess you're one of those people who believe pirating music (or smoking marijuana you grew in your own garden) funds terrorism, or pretty much any other knee-jerk response to something the current administration dislikes that's labelled terrorism.
If there's anything sadder then someone unfairly being labelled a terrorist, its the general public's willingness to repeat it ad-nauseum until everyone starts to accept it.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
"After months confronting whalers and pirates..."
This kind of eliminates the latter from the monkey/robot/ninja deathmatch now doesn't it? I mean if they can't even take out a bunch of berkenstock-clad hippes on the wet deck of a ship how can they handle a cybernetic bushido-wielding Capuchin?
I also find it odd that an environmentalist group patrols the oceans in a large diesel ship. Counter-productive much there Granola Moonbeam Humpflowers?
Next on Slashdot: The latest Al Qaeda gadgets! -- The IRA has produced a movie; it will blow you away! -- Take a look into the circuitry behind PLO suicide bombs!
Parent is not a troll, green peace, peta and the like are very much terrorist but because they are "saveing" fuzzy animals and forests no one calls them on it.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
Nothing like supporting a bunch of terrorists. Next I guess it'll be the wacky hijinx of al quida that we'll be commenting on. Really Hemos, bad form for posting this.
In other news, I think the Salt & Pepper squid from T&S Seafood sounds good for lunch today...
Keep Austin Weird!
How about a hydra of cameras that could follow each tentacle? a beauwolf of cameras??
This is a very nice read about the smaller brother of the Giant squid called the Diablo Rojo
!
Yep, misread the title as such. Damn hippies.
The first link is a video of President Bush...
Parent is not a troll,
Parent and grandparent are trolls. They make claims that are not backed up by any sort of source (queue eager slashdotters linking to the new republic)
Please provide a link from a credible source detailing Greenpeace's terrorist activities.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
What you just read was the Common Karma Whore.
Its behaviors include off-topic comments about the US government, which it uses as a method of attracting less intelligent moderators.
As you can see, this Karma Whore's trap worked perfectly, fooling a particularly mindless moderator, and successfully gaining karma.
Many moderators are intelligent enough to see the Karma Whore's attempts for what they are. Sadly, in any population there will be those that aren't bright enough to sniff out the trap, despite its simplistic construction and lack of sophistication.
Karma Whores rely on such individuals, as they are also not very bright, and without other less intelligent prey, would not survive long in the wild.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
There ya go, they were charged for financing terrorism. http://www.libertysecurity.org/article283.html
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
Bzzzzt.
1) Being charged is not the same as being guilty.
2) EU anti-terrorism laws (like in the US) are overly broad & target non-terrorists (from your link: Hence, the EU definition of a 'terrorist act', on which EC Reg. 2580/2001 is based, results to be extremely wide and in many cases too blur and imprecise, leaving an open margin for interpretation to both national police forces, when prosecuting offences, and national judges, when requested to apply the norm
3) (Again from your link): This event, occurred without any damage to things and persons. Doesn't sound a helluva lot like terrorism to me.
Can anyone else respoding please try not to waste time with links like the above?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
You know what is even more ironic is that someone is actually developing sailboat freighters. I remember reading in a magazine (I don't remmeber which one) that sailboats might be a good way to move those huge ships around. I would like it if someone pointed me to some information about this.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
The Esperanza? A squid?
This doesn't end well at all. Not at all, sir.
bkd
Oh dear God, "eco-terrorist" huh?
Greenpeace has been called eco-terrorist long before that little incident in the U.S. They've been described as such even before the U.S. invaded Iraq to save the world from Al-quesadilla or whatever they call themselves.
I'm not a nerd. Nerds are smart.
You asked for a link detailing their activities.
You didn't ask for a conviction, and frankly, your point about EU anti-terrorism laws is a useless diversion.
"Doesn't sound a helluva lot like terrorism to me."
Well, so what? You're wrong, why should we adjust the definition to suit you when you've already shown you'll say whatever you need to, and change the definition however you need to in order to continue trolling.
Terrorism is about terror. It has nothing to do with "damage to things and persons", so stop making up definitons when the real ones don't suit you.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
I guess we are all victims of propaganda. Myself, being a victim of Greenpeace propaganda, and american people being victims of Fox News (a.k.a. Bush administration) propaganda, flagging everyone not sharing their views as terrorists, part of the evil axis.
What makes greenpeace terrorists? Have they killed anybody? Did they kill these whalers? Are they placing bombs on the most polluting factories? Are they invading Irak to force them to be ecologists (Operation "Spreading eco-freedom"!)? THAT would be eco-terrorism.
perception is reality
Even one of their founders has turned his back on them.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
I don't know about squids, but going "deep sea diving" with a hippie pretty much guarantees you will see at least crabs.
Why is Greenpeace harrassing marine life? Or are they just sport fishing for squid?
Did anyone else expect (hope?) that this was an underwater camera disguised as a giant squid? It would be great for capturing those evil giant-squid hunters in the act. Maybe Greenpeace could use it to attack evildoers such as pirates, whalers, and Exxon tankers.
Ironically, they broke it yesterday by unexpectedly banging it against some coral.
Around lunchtime, just as I was on a Defending Our Oceans project leaders conference call, and being cautiously optimistic about how well things are going out here so far - disaster struck the underwater video and stills research camera, affectionately known as the 'Drop-Cam'. While surveying a coral ridge it had crashed into a rocky outcrop and been broken into pieces.
"I was going to comment on your 'trolling' jibe, but a quick perusal of your posting history shows you to be a troll of the most common sort."
Nice. That's called an ad hominem. And it doesn't change the facts as I listed them.
"I surprised that you can be terrorised by something that doesn't damage "things or persons"."
What a colossally stupid comment. Who is damaged by a bomb scare? No one. Who is damaged by threat of violence against a particular group of people? No one. God how could you allow yourself to say something so stupid?
"I didn't make a definition"
No, you simply added unrelated qualifications to the current one. No difference.
"I was going to comment on your 'trolling' jibe, but a quick perusal of your posting history shows you to be a troll of the most common sort."
Why, because I've been modded down? I've been modded up too, and if current history is any indicator, you're a far warse troll than I am. In fact, near as I can tell, I haven't received a single troll mod. How many do you have?
Lastly, your sad attempt to divert attention from your own errors by attacking me is an ad hominem. I have included a definition, so in the future when you say something stupid, you won't be able to attack the person pointing out how stupid your comment is. Well, you can, but you'll know it's an ad hominem, so you'll be using it intentionally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
I should have read your name before responding to you. It's pretty clear you didn't choose it by accident.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
Dumbledore is the giant squid!
You know, that's not a bad idea. So far we've got footage of the one living, active giant squid ever, and it was caught on a (suitably huge) bait line. We also have never seen Sperm whales actually hunting on their long dives; a National Geographic "Search for the Giant Squid" special a few years ago attached some cameras to the whales and followed them down a while, but the Physeters were swimming in such close formation that they knocked the cameras off each other. Even the close group of whales was news to science, actually. Nobody really knows if, as is speculated, the Sperm whale's nose is actually part of a sonic weapon used to incapacitate its prey at depth. This is the largest predator (aside from "preying" on krill) that we've ever found in the world, and we know jack about it even though we've killed loads of them.
But let's run a camera disguised as Architeuthis down into something like the Kaikoura trench and see if we can't get footage of those whales coming in for a kill, shall we?
What a great idea you've had!
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
"I love how everyone is willing to cry "hypocrisy" the minute someone doesn't 100% practice what they preach. It's called practicality"
So how much "practicality" does Greepeace allow whalers, or people who wear fur, or other groups they disagree with?
And by the way, it can be called practicality and hypocrisy at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive.
One question, you should be able to answer. Are the Greenpeace boats runnig Biodiesel? If yes, then bully, if no, then you need to shut the fuck up. There's nothing impractical about putting a different fuel in the tank.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
...and I am highly offended by this post.
They're very aggressive, your diver is right. A comparable species (supposedly) that's on the scale of architeuthis is the "colossal" squid. Very active, hooks on the suckers, and in other ways a little closer to Humboldts. There's a nice little diagram on that BBC page showing the scale next to an old double-decker London bus.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Oceans are pretty large and cameras don't look all that far (especially when it gets very dark, like in deep sea). How many giant squid do you think are there? Are they all hungry to become celebrities?
I bet they won't see jack.
...to keep an eye on the giant squid, you know. And the merpeople.
Greenpeace doesn't really get involved with people who wear fur. They more get involved on the production side, not the wearing side. And fur-wise, they only get involved with baby seals, not furs in general. I think you're thinking of PETA.
And your practicality argument is just plain stupid. They are doing a necessary thing, in order to accomplish a certain goal. That's what he's referring to. It is completely absurd to say that a person who believes in the environment cannot use any fossil fuels. How would they fly to a conference? Or maybe they'd video conference, if none of the components in the equipment was made out of plastic and the power to run it came from the wind! There simply is no way right now to completely avoid using fossil fuels to accomplish a goal. So are you merely arguing that no person should bother to do as much as they can?
It is not practical at this time to fill a ship's bunkers with biodiesel. A ship could take upwards of 10,000 gallons of fuel at once. Sourcing that much biodiesel is not easy, or perhaps even possible. Over time, perhaps this will change. I too would like to see wind used to power ships again. But it'll really be most useful on the open ocean. To maneuver (say, to block harpoons) will require burning fuel, because the wind doesn't always cooperate.
I am no fan of Greenpeace, honestly, I see them as terrorists. But I find your argument that practical limits mean one shouldn't try to improve some aspects of our enviroment to be foolish.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I can't believe Slashdot has stooped this low. Tentacle porn?!
Did you even read the link you posted? (Same to you, moderator.)
From your link:
"manifesting their opposition to the genetically modified feed for animals with a colored stand before the Agricultural Council, irrupted into the council headquarters, climbed up to the roof and displayed a banner of protest."
Wow! What vicious, truly dangerous terrorists. Not only did they display a banner of protest -- they went so far as to climb up to the roof to do it! And, in true terrorist form, they ran a colored stand (with the implied threat of raining multicolored flowers upon the Agricultural Council members).
All you have to do is point to the exact statement that I used to do either of the things you've attributed to me.
Or MAYBE you pathetic AC, there has been more than one person replying and you're too dim-witted to notice.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
They were going to use giant-squid-cam.com for their videos, but they found out the domain was already taken by a porn site...
Sheesh, alright already! throwing around the "TERRORIST" label at anything we disagree with has by now robbed the term of any shred of meaning that it might have had (and didn't) in the first place.
It's application, particularly in this context is part of an active propaganda campaign.
if you want to know more specifically about the sordid history of this fallacious "eco-terrorist" term and the McCarthyist campaign that is currently being waged by the anti-environmental lobby please check out this Wiki entry about Ron Arnold, whose smear campaign to create the "eco-terrorist" meme is a perfect object lesson in the effective manipulation of a willing and ready media and government.
Don't you all realize -- they are going to train these giant squids to identify and attack yachts with Republicans on board! It's GENIUS!!!!!!
The end justifies the means. Q.E.D.
As to your straw man stuff, you said they can't be environmentalists, because they burn diesel fuel in their ship. You said that, not me. You said that makes them hypocrites and thus blunts their position. I reject your argument.
As to baby seals. Um, I said baby seals. you said "people wearing fur". The only fur being worn here is baby seal fur, and it's being worn by baby seals! As I said, Greenpeace is really only involved in the baby seal hunting, not the people wearing fur end. You backed up my argument, not refuted it.
You are a terrible debater. You misrepresent your own positions while bolstering mine, and then you declare victory.
And you do realize you can't edit posts on slashdot, right?
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
(Paraphrased from memory)
Attendant: "So what killed you?"
Kryten: "Some kind of giant squid."
Attendant: "Oh, the Despair Squid? That shouldn't have killed you, you just blast it with the laser cannons."
Kryten: "But Starbug didn't have any laser cannon capability."
Attendant: "You're supposed to use the laser cannons on the Esperanto. It's an obvious clue! Esperanto means hope, hope defeats despair! No wonder you only scored 3%."
(Ok, this ship is the Esperanzo... but still damned close.)
Comment of the year
"Terrorist" is harsher then what Greenpeace deservers. That said, at the very least they vandalize equipment, trespass, and have performed more then one dangerous asinine stunt at sea. Greenpeace is by no stretch of the imagination the Sierra Club. These are people that happily violate the law and use terrorist like tactics. Running your snowmobile through an oil drilling site is dangerous for all involved. Having activist storm a laboratory Hell, just look at Greenpeace's own press releases. They read like ransom demands.
e ases/massive-police-presence-as-act
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/press/rel
"We are putting Monsanto on notice, along with each and every Biotech firm that is contaminating our fields and our food supply now - or has future plans to introduce GE seeds - this is the beginning, we will not stop until France is
declared a GE free zone." Said Olivier Keller, national secretary of the Confederation Paysanne.
Is this a terrorist act? No, not really. Do people immediately pick up on the similarities between how these minority groups are trying to use corrosion to bring about some sort of social change? Hell yes. So yes, I'll agree that Greenpeace is not a terrorist organization. That said, they only way that they are different from your average run of the mill terrorist organization is that they make a reasonable effort to avoid harming people. Outside of the "not killing people" part (which admittedly is a big part), they operate in much the same way as any other crazy terrorist group does.
The REAL eco-terrorists are companies like Exxon.
If you had made your above comment in my physical presence, I'd bitch-slap you.
You're a fucking idiot who has to rely on intentional distortion and obfuscation?
"this can be interpreted in multiple ways."
3) He got what he wanted, but was changing his request in order to avoid admitting it.
So, you're wrong there.
"Such a claim doesn't make much sense except in the context of situation (1)"
That's wrong too. It makes perfect sense in the context of number 3 above. You just decided to assume things that weren't stated. That, of course, is because you made ridiculous claims that have no basis in reality, so you had to manufacture something.
"you're referring to his claim that Greenpeace's actions aren't terrorism. I.e., you're saying that the actions are terrorism."
No, I'm saying his definition of terrorism is wrong. Is that clear enough for you, being an AC?
So, you're wrong here too.
So, you were wrong three times.
In the future, instead of making idiotic assumptions (and some of them were just plain moronic) you could ask.
Thanks for the action though, I love slapping AC's around.
"As to your straw man stuff, you said they can't be environmentalists, because they burn diesel fuel in their ship. You said that, not me"
Then QUOTE IT. Cut and paste the quotation where I said that. I'll wait. What you did THERE is ALSO a straw man, and apparently, you're not too fond of reading links or you'd realize why.
But you won't. Because, despit the fact that you THINK otherwise, I never said it.
You're lying.
"Greenpeace is really only involved in the baby seal hunting, not the people wearing fur end"
Ah, yet another thing I bet you wish you could untype. I wasn't refuting anyhting here, genius. I was giving the background to my statement and...GASP...agreeing wiht you.
I have to assume that you've never said anything that anyone else thought was worth agreeing with, which is why you don't recognize it when it happens. Oh well.
"You backed up my argument, not refuted it."
And since I wasn't trying to refute it, I don't know what your point is.
"You are a terrible debater."
Well, try to avoid logical fallacies (but they're insidious and subtle, so I fail sometimes) andf I don't lie like you do.
So I guess by that metric, in your eyes, I'm a terrible debater.
"You misrepresent your own positions"
No, YOU misunderstood. I asked you to supply the exact quote where I claimed what you think I claimed, and I guarantee you won't find one. Your inability to read for comprehension has no bearing on the validity of my statements.
"And you do realize you can't edit posts on slashdot, right?"
Of course. That's pretty ironic though, coming from you. Especially when you realize that this statement
"You said that, not me."
is demonstrably false. Why lie when you know it can be checked?
You should have done that before you posted. Oh well, you can't edit posts on slashdot.
When it comes to Greenpeace, I support France. They don't mess around.
what twaddle. Grenpeace dont even swear at people let along blow them apart with semtex. Its funny to see slashdotters suddenly get their knickers in a twist about peaceful disobedience of the law when its greenpeace, and then within minutes post a "Fuck the RIAA you cant stop me filesharing" rant about how its every citizens right to break the law if they disagree with it.
If you would rather events like the exxon valdez disaster or bhopal just got quietly ignored as they would be without GP, then thats a matter for your conscience. As far as I know Exxon mobil havent paid a single dollar in compensation for that valdez shipwreck, and thats even after GPS campaigns. Without people like GP, they would probably be trying to sue the seagulls for stealing their oil.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
For responding to your other (strident but nearly incoherent) post with a reasoned response. I was unaware you were an idiot. Please accept my sincerest apologies for taking you seriously, and please carry on with your being an idiot at your soonest convenience.
Thank you.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
what twaddle. Grenpeace dont even swear at people let along blow them apart with semtex. Its funny to see slashdotters suddenly get their knickers in a twist about peaceful disobedience of the law when its greenpeace, and then within minutes post a "Fuck the RIAA you cant stop me filesharing" rant about how its every citizens right to break the law if they disagree with it.
Thankfully, I am not the person "Slashdot". So when the person "Slashdot" does something that is seemingly hypocritical, you can rest assure that the person running around calling them self "Slashdot" isn't me. In this case, while the person "Slashdot" might share files and have a problem with vandalism, I do not. I have a problem with vandalism and I don't pirate. I don't buy music either. There is plenty of legal music in this world such that you don't need to pirate OR buy from the RIAA.
If you would rather events like the exxon valdez disaster or bhopal just got quietly ignored as they would be without GP, then thats a matter for your conscience. As far as I know Exxon mobil havent paid a single dollar in compensation for that valdez shipwreck, and thats even after GPS campaigns. Without people like GP, they would probably be trying to sue the seagulls for stealing their oil.
Greenpeace does not have a monopoly on publicizing these disasters. There are plenty of other organizations that have put in the effort to improve the environment without resorting to publicity stunts that far from bringing attention to the problem, tend to piss off allies. Having Greenpeace on your side is the left wing equivalent of getting a local militia group that threatens to shoot cops and tax collectors on site to endorse your program to cut back taxes. It is counter productive.
Greenpeace plays to their own whacko brand of quasi-religious environmentalism. Hell, I think this quote sums up their position:
"We are putting Monsanto on notice, along with each and every Biotech firm that is contaminating our fields and our food supply now - or has future plans to introduce GE seeds - this is the beginning, we will not stop until France is declared a GE free zone."
This is what they say on their own frigging page. This shit ISN'T what wins over anyone but your fellow quasi-religious-environmentalist nut jobs. This is like declaring that you are going to go disrupt Jewish religious services until all the heathens convert to Christianity.
Greenpeace has done more to make "environmentalist" be spat out like a curse word then any other group out there. Calling yourself an environmentalist is slowly losing its stigma, but it is losing its stigma DESPITE Greenpeace, not because of it. Greenpeace is a curse on the environmentalist movement. Greenpeace is a blessing to every corporate dumper out there. While Greenpeace is out there, these corporations point to their stupid and dangerous stunts as proof that the other side is just made up of stupid college kids with too much time on their hands. I bet Exxon executives wake up every single day and thank god for Greenpeace and jump for joy when one of those idiots performs some act of vandalism that they can then take to a congressmen as proof that the other side is nuts.
"I bet Exxon executives wake up every single day and thank god for Greenpeace and jump for joy when one of those idiots performs some act of vandalism that they can then take to a congressmen as proof that the other side is nuts."
Nonsense, its because of GP that people even know what these people get up to. And the congressmen, or in the current case, the president himself are so far in the pockets of the oil companies they dont need any persuasion.
You might prefer that greens sit at home and write angry letters to those congressmen, which will then get binned. Newsflash for you -> publicity stunts work, they raise awareness. Thats why people in the media use them. If you show me a TV station that gives non violent, quiet and unphotogenic protests any enws coverage, then Ill agree with you, but they dont. Publicity stunts get the right issues discussed on the news.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
I'm not aware of any existant video of a live adult giant squid. If Greenpeace can get any that would be a major coup. But it's gonna be bloody hard.
It's also gonna be boring. The video we have of juvenile Giant Squid shows that they are passive drifters that just hang out.
Now, heading down to the sub-antarctic waters south of New Zealand to catch some Collosal Squid on video - that'd be much better! Typical adult Collosal Squid are about 18 meters long, they've got these cool swivelling hooks on their tentacles, they're aggressive hunters that maul sperm whales. Best of all, they're pretty much transparent while alive so they're almost completely invisible when hunting.
They're not quite invisible. The eyes and beak aren't transparent, and the rest of the body will reflect some light like a translucent jellyfish does.
(PS: Bizzare Squid Fact #28: squid are very stretchy. Which is why you get various different sizes given for how big they grow - non-scientists tend to pull their tentacles out as long as they can and measure that).
Terrorist attacks get coverage too. Last time I checked the last time someone tired that sort of publicity stunt in the US it resulted in one nation being instantly beaten into submission. I doubt that the goal of 9/11 was to get the Taliban government, which used to be safe haven for all manner of Jihadist, kicked over. Despite that, that is exactly what happened. People who would never have normally supported kicking over another government went along with it because the publicity stunt designed to call attention to American imperialism ended up uniting people against the tactics used.
Greenpeace, while certainly an order of magnitude less extreme, does roughly the same thing. They use tactics that your average person is disgusted by to get press coverage. What they fail to realize is that the disgust in their actions often far outweighs the 'awareness' they have spread.
There is a growing environmentalist movement in the United States. Greenpeace is not leading this movement with their various acts of vandalism. This movement is being led by scientist and economist who are communicating the need for environmental action. The crap that Greenpeace does sullies the reputation of all environmentalist. It is only through the hard work of scientist and economist that the environmentalist movement is starting to overcome the damage that Greenpeace has done. Hell, even Bush can admit to global warming these days. The fact that you have Republicans who can at least pay lips services to the environment is because lunatic vandal groups like Greenpeace are being sidelined by scientist and economist.
Having Thomas Friedman (a very famous quasi-libertarian that right wing folks love) come out and declare that oil is the devil and that we need to take proactive steps to get off of it has done far more to get people to look up and take the environment seriously then all the stupid acts of vandalism that bored rich college kids under the guise of Greenpeace have performed.
7,000 LCL-filled Yashicas later, we finally had it; the coldwater imager that does not lose f-stops....
Between the 'camera' with large suction tube lead and the pod-studded drop vehicle this can only mean one thing: Greenpeace is making t3h Ch'teva01 Production Model.
The baleful coal-fired eye's underlid sneaks up, and you perceive for a moment that it's -enjoying- that thought of being pierced amain...but then the white-chromophored homonculus resumes its usual posture, staring blankly from a cope of bluish mantle....
Thank you Protect T3h D0j1n!
it looks like you are waging your own private campaign there to be honest. 99% of people I know in the UK are certainly not disgusted by GP, in fact they are overwhelmingly supportive.
But then if you believe that afghanistan was instantly a successfull war and that its all over now, Im guessing your reading a bit too much into fox news in general.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
A single set of photos has been taken of this critter in the wild. Nothing more to know, time to close the book and move on!
Not at all. I am just pointing out that Greenpeace is not an innovator or indeed have any competence in this area. They are not a scientific organisation at all. They are good at harassing shipping from small inflatable motor boats. The Yemeni Al-Qaida terror cell that hit the USS Cole had similar skills.
You may not like Greenpeace, but before you go attacking them, what the hell have you done for your fellow Earthlings? And what's your scientific credibility to judge their entire organization, eh?
I paid my taxes. I gave 40% of all of the money I made last year to contribute to the greater good of society. That includes funding wasteful spending on eco-pseudoscience. I also made additional contributions to Catholic Charities and the FSF! I judge Greenpeace by their past behaviors: extremism, hyperbolic rhetoric, eco-terror...
Personally, I think they have an important role to play as some sort of balance to the "trade groups", self serving politicians, and FOX TVs of the world.
The left often complains about the FOX News rise to dominance. You need to understand that by hijacking the mainstream press over the past 30 years the left manufactured them. The great silent majority now has a fair and balanced news source and doesn't have to sift the words of Dan Rather.
Global fish stocks are crashing, fisheries management has been an abect failure worldwide, and it looks like this is the year that Japan will have bribed enough land-locked 3rd world nations to gain control of the IWC and reinstate commercial whaling. "Marine science is already in more capable hands." hmph. not by much.
A great success story has been US management of the Bering Sea fisheries. They are healthy and productive. I have recently gone cod fishing in the gulf of Maine. No problems there. Finback Whales lounging on the surface, Bottle Nose Dolphins cavorting in our boat wake, monster cod stuffed with krill. Quite a sight. How the rest of the world manages their fisheries, I don't know.
I highly recommend reading the non-partisan PEW report on the state of the world's oceans,
I'll do that, but there is no such thing as a non-partisan in the fields of oceanography or climatology.
an ill wind that blows no good
But then if you believe that afghanistan was instantly a successfull war and that its all over now, Im guessing your reading a bit too much into fox news in general.
Where in the hell did I say Afghanistan was "instantly a successful war"? Go ahead, find my quote, I'll wait. Oh hell, don't bother looking because I didn't say Afghanistan was good, and I certainly didn't say that it was successful. I said that a "publicity stunt" (i.e. 9/11) brought "awareness" to American Imperialism. It also convinced people that normally would never be for invading another nation and occupying it to go along with it simply because they were so disgusted with the methods used to bring awareness.
This point seems to have flown way over your head in favor of your made up point that I like war in Afghanistan and watch Fox News, but my point wasn't that Afghanistan was good or bad. My point was that not all methods of brining attention to a problem are good methods because disgust at the methods used can result in a violently negative response. In the same way ramming airplanes into buildings is a poor way to convince Americans that imperialism is bad an in fact tends to make them crazier and even more blood thirsty, Greenpeace trespassing and vandalizing private property doesn't help their cause. It makes environmentalist look like a bunch of stupid and bored college kids with far too much time on their hands who get their shit off by vandalizing.
Your fellow quasi-religious-enviro-fanatics might all cheer when Greenpeace goes and vandalizes some property, but your average dead center American voter is disgusted. Your average politician that is even a step right of center doesn't went to be associated with such vandals. It makes every environmentalist out there look like a bored college kid who gets his shit off vandalizing property in publicity stunts.
Calling someone an "environmentalist" used to be a curse because it was tied to extremist groups like Greenpeace. Thankfully, the word "environmentalist" has managed to shake of its stigma in the US in recent years, no thanks to Greenpeace. Through dialogue with scientist, economist, and non-publicity stunt whoring environmentalist organizations, the public has become aware of the need to be greener. Today, even Bush can admit to global warming. Believe me though it wasn't a bunch of rich ass hole college kids vandalizing property, that convinced a right wing president that maybe he too should at least pay lip services to the environment. Greenpeace is a pox on the entire environmentalist movement. I am just glad that REAL environmentalist in the from of economist and scientist have started to take over the spot light and shut these nuts out.
Just out of interest what percentage of the total money you made last year was your tax bill?
I am making the point that anyone who pays their taxes unwittingly contributes to many dubious charitable causes. For all I know Greenpeace receives federal grants. The percentage I give beyond that is between me and the IRS. If that smells bad to you, try pulling your head out of your ass.
an ill wind that blows no good
The Monterey Bay Aquatic Research Institute (MBARI) is basically state of the art for submersibles. If I remember my interviews with Bruce Robison right, they've got stuff that's far quieter than previous generations of remote vehicles, so as not to scare off anything sensitive. If you want to see the weird critters swimming around in the midwater, MBARI is the place to visit.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
I asked you to provide a quote. Until you do so, you're a proven liar.
So why would I waste more time refuting a liar?
"If you were not refuting me, why did you say "Ok, firts, that wrong"?"
Because it is wrong. But I didn't refute it. Saying you're wrong is not the same as a refutation, I think that's your problem.
You're so used to telling people they're wrong, and thinking you've refuted them in doing so, that you assign that ridiculous criteria to others.
"And fur-wise, they only get involved with baby seals, not furs in general."
That's the part I was agreeing with. You see how I mention baby seal, and you also mention baby seals? See how the discuss the same subject? Yeah, that's agreeing.
"If you think that your sentences conveyed you agreeing with me"
They did. I apologize for using concepts that exceed your intellectual capacity.
"then uou're not only a terrible debater,"
Yeah, you mentioned this already. That's when I demonstrated that
a) you were lying
b) you continually employ logical fallacies
So, you can call me a terrible debater all you want, it doesn't change either of those facts. Nor does it change the fact that I, as a supposedly "terrible debater" have repeatedly wiped my ass with you and your points.
So, either post the quote that supports you, or admit you're lying.
http://weblog.greenpeace.org/oceandefenders/archiv e/2006/05/slideshow_images_from_the.html