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Google is Microsoft's New Open Source

Robert writes "Steve Ballmer told investors recently that Microsoft's biggest challenge is embracing software-as-a-service business models, as embodied by rival Google Inc. Investing in software as a service and advertising-supported businesses is a challenge like that which the company faced at the dawn of the open-source movement. To paraphrase him heavily, the takeaway was: Yes, we're investing a lot, but it's riskier, long-term, not to do so. We have a lot of cool stuff coming up and, yes, we are also playing catch-up on a couple of fronts. His speech came a month after Microsoft revealed that its R&D budget for fiscal 2007, which ends mid-2007, would rise to $6.2bn." From the article: "We've got to make this transition, which our industry is making, from software as a product to software as a service ... If you want to be a leading software company, you've got to be a leading software-as-a-service company."

188 comments

  1. Nothin wrong with this... by IAmTheDave · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft has real competition, forcing them to develop better, more competitive software. Downside?

    --
    Excuse my speling.
    Making The Bar Project
    1. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by neonprimetime · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Downside?

      MSFT starts making better products. Customers become satisfied. MSFT destroys ever living competitor. We're back to square 1 again.

    2. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Children killed by flying chairs

    3. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by El+Cubano · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft has real competition, forcing them to develop better, more competitive software. Downside?

      The downside for Microsoft is that they are their own worst enemy. People already pay Microsoft for their software (either embedded in the cost of a PC or at the store for things like Office) . Now Microsoft is in the tough position of getting people to transition from paying for software upfront to paying for it as a service without people realizing they are getting the short end of the stick. This will be much easier with things like office and other products you typically buy in the store. For things like windows, it will be hard to convince people that they need to pay monthly to use their PCs after they have already paid up front for the hardware and OS. Of Microsoft makes it too painless, they shoot themselves in the foot by not making as much as they could. If they make it too painful, they stand to lose marketshare, especially if companies like Novell and IBM come out and really pump the idea that you don't have to pay to keep your Linux machines running.

    4. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by AutopsyReport · · Score: 0
      Customers become satisfied. MSFT destroys ever living competitor.

      If the market is supplied with a quality product that removes the desire for substitutes, then the customer will not care about those substitutes since their satisfaction has been met. The "destroying" of all competitors then becomes irrelevant to everyone except those being beaten.

      --

      For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    5. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by ClosedSource · · Score: 4, Funny

      Truly a nightmare scenario for those who don't need a rational reason to hate MS.

    6. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't see MS turning Windows into a web service. How are you going to access it from your PC, boot into Linux?

    7. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by iluvcapra · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Microsoft has real competition,

      From who in what market? MS makes money selling software, Google sells advertising. Everything else either company does is a loss leader/R&D project.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    8. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Downside?

      The competition is an illusion.

      Google exists in an entirely different sphere of influence than Microsoft. Microsoft is not protecting its base against competition so much as it is doing what it has always done:

      Found out that someone else is making money and trying to muscle in on it.

      Microsoft is in the software business. Google is not in the software as service business. They are in the advertising business, just as a billboard company is not in the real estate business, even though they must interact with the real estate market in order to sell their advertising product.

      And the only people demanding "software as a service" are the advertising buyers/sellers.

      KFG

    9. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Billosaur · · Score: 1
      Microsoft has real competition, forcing them to develop better, more competitive software. Downside?

      Downside: Microsoft will not try to "compete", per se, but attempt to bully, cajole, and acquire others to do most of their dirty work, while spreading their cantankerous software as a service as well as POS, thereby increasing its complexity and opening up all sorts of new security holes.

      Of course, if you want to call that a downside...

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    10. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Downside?
      1. MS Software suckiness = 85% of our means of advancing our FLOSS ideology.
      2. MS is the only "choice" we have besides the US Government -- imagine a world where a single US election -- the next one -- has reversed the trend and completely set us back to before we were a police state or needed a Politics slashdot section. Now imagine that in this world, Microsoft has started to compete on service, which pretty much means abandoning gEvil: in the nightmare world I have just described, who is left for us to bash???
      3. Competition means tighter margins for Google, meaning we get fewer groundbreaking new Beta products. (Remember, we're not the one's paying for anything Google does.)
      4. Believe it or not, a lot of the stagnation in software over the last twenty some-odd years has been a direct result of Gates' desire to overflow 32 bits on his taxes. He succeeeded. (They needed to create a "special" computer just to compute his taxes). However, the industry is now at 64 bits. [cue ominous music.]
    11. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by binkzz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I don't see MS turning Windows into a web service. How are you going to access it from your PC, boot into Linux?"

      Where did you get 'web' from?

      --
      'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
    12. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Abu+Hurayrah · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has real competition, forcing them to develop better, more competitive software. Downside?

      The same disappointment we always feel whenever MSFT finally exceeds their competition - stagnation, insecurity, & lack of motivation for improvement (e.g., IE). MSFT is always seeking to just barely exceed their competition for a market advantage, and then they have little to no impetus to improve after that.

      No doubt that competition benefits open-source projects as well as proprietary, commercial products; however, open-source projects tend to have more motivation to improve themselves when there is no money to be made in doing so. Proprietary, commercial shops have no motivation to improve a product if it is not going to translate into increased revenue.

      Please, think of the stockholders!

      --
      Kindness is not to be found in anything but that it adds to its beauty...
    13. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft has real competition, forcing them to develop better, more competitive software. Downside?

      What makes you think software-as-a-service is actually better?

      The key advantages to software as a service is not for the customers, it's for the software companies.

      There are three major reasons Microsoft wants to embrace software as a service so fast:

      1. the vendor stays in control of usage;
      2. there's no possibility to pirate a service;
      3. A product you sell as a license that lasts forever (too many people happy with old Windows and Office?), a service you bill periodically (well here's a solution!)

      Of course if you provide a free service there's no point in pirating it, but it'll be a choice between getting spied upon your activites (constant connection with the mothership for anything you do) and being served ads; or paying monthly/yearly for service, in the end paying a lot more than you're willing to.

      You can be sure they'll make you depend on Windows Updates and online connectivity and promptly start cutting "service" support for older versions of their products to make people move on.

      I'm not an MS hater, and this is not a MS hate post. It's just how the entire business is moving: the DRM, the dependency of network connectivity and so on. Businesses will always want more money and more control, it's just a part of the business.

    14. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by wfeick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the point was that once competition has been squashed they would be able to slack off and not worry about customer satisfaction.

      I think the market will tend to self correct, but it takes longer to correct if there is an effective monopoly with no viable competition. Having a competitor in the ring forces a business to respond to customer needs more quickly.

    15. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by camcorder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft is in the software business.
      They are also in advertising bussiness as well. Same way as Google is in.

    16. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      "Google is not in the software as service business. They are in the advertising business, just as a billboard company is not in the real estate business, even though they must interact with the real estate market in order to sell their advertising product."

      I disagree. Google is in the software business, they just finance it through advertising. They employ more programmers and developers than advertisers and marketers, and produce far more data than they do ads. They must interact with the advertising market, but far and away, their product is data.

      What you're saying is that radio stations are not in the radio business, they are in the advertising business because they finance their operation by ads rather than charging their consumers directly.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    17. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      I know you're kidding but I can see them pulling something like this. After a short period of use after purchase (say 3 months) the system boots into a form asking you to pay to continue using Windows. Failure to pay makes the OS inoperable.

      And they'll sell it by telling people all the wonderful things they get by subscribing, like security fixes. Of course they won't call them security fixes, they'll call them "Enhancements" or something.

      A lot of people who are clueless about this sort of thing will imagine all their pictures, documents and recipes all locked away in their PC and go digging for their wallets.

      Actually the more I think about it the more I like it. If they did pull something like this then I can't imagine a better incentive to switch to a different OS.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    18. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "If they did pull something like this then I can't imagine a better incentive to switch to a different OS."

      Which is exactly why it will never happen.

    19. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that MS is not fighting on their own turf now. I think the odds are a lot less in MS's favor this time. It has sorely neglected the Internet, and every attempt to get its Internet services to the fore have failed miserably. Between Google and Firefox eroding the browser base, MS is going to have to fight this one by rules it did not make up.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    20. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like Hitler saying, "OK...I guess we'll have to put up with some Jews. Hey, anyone wanna buy a bagel?"

      Microsoft has already displayed time and again that they are bad for business and society...let's say good riddance to them forever.

    21. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Google is in the software business, they just finance it through advertising . . .

      This is the fundamental conceptual mistake of business.

      . . .they are in the advertising business because they finance their operation by ads rather than charging their consumers directly.

      A business is defined by what provides it with profit. The source of the profit is the "consumer."

      The source of Google's profit is advertising. The advertisers are the "consumer" of Google's product. You, as a user of Google's services are the "product" being marketed, not the software used to do the marketing. A carpenter is not in the hammer business, even if he makes his own hammers.

      Why do you think commercial television sucks so badly? Why do you think there are so many infomercials on cable?

      It's because you are not the "consumer" of the product. You are the resource being exploited. Ya ever see what a mountain looks like after it has been exploited for coal?

      Until you get this into your head properly you are not really a "consumer." You are what is known as a "mark."

      KFG

    22. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Roduku · · Score: 1

      Then how else would software be a service?

      You certainly wouldn't go to the local video store and rent windows to install on your computer.

    23. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Case in Point: Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox

    24. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by jusdisgi · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has real competition, forcing them to develop better, more competitive software. Downside?

      The Downside.

      --
      Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
    25. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by binkzz · · Score: 1

      It does work with an internet connection, but not as a webservice. It would be like renting Windows, although the OS itself probably won't be a service for some time. It's more like how you have a channel package for your cable subscription, except you'd have different applications to suit your needs.

      Basically, software as a service authenticates itself every month. If you stop subscribing, you either stop getting updates, fixes and support, or the software could stop alltogether. Ideally, you need lots of added DRM, otherwise it would be hacked.

      Some more information can be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_Service or google.

      --
      'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
    26. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by greenbird · · Score: 1
      For things like windows, it will be hard to convince people that they need to pay monthly to use their PCs after they have already paid up front for the hardware and OS.

      They're already starting this. Now they sell you the OS but you have to pay $50 a year to get security for the OS you've paid up front for. Their new security service is the first step in changing people's mind set.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    27. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Roduku · · Score: 1

      How about this scenario:

      For a monthly fee, you subscribe to, say, Microsoft Office Online. You can use the word processor, spreadsheet or whatever that is sitting on the server. You can save your files locally or online.

      The files you save online, you could access from any location and any computer with internet access.
      You wouldn't be constantly installing patches or updates or have to buy a newer version periodically.

    28. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by mkw87 · · Score: 1
      Actually the more I think about it the more I like it. If they did pull something like this then I can't imagine a better incentive to switch to a different OS.

      I can, show me an alternative OS that 'just works' and will play popular games and I'll switch.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    29. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has never been about services. This is a complete paradigm shift for them. They are saying they are changing but their thinking is remaining the same.

      Of course, given their portfolio, it is possible for them to offer more in the long run but it makes their entire arsenal of code meaningless in the short term; they will have to figure out how to transition their portfolio of code into something that is service oriented and then integrate them together in a typical Microsoft fashion WITHOUT being anti-competitive.

      They are being watched more closely today than ever, are losing on many fronts (Apache, Firefox, MySQL, Google, etc) and are about to launch a product that will force tons of consumers, businesses and governments to upgrade their hardware as well as their software. Microsoft is backing themselves into a corner and it doesn't look like this 800 lb Gorilla will come out of this inscathed.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    30. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1
      in the nightmare world I have just described, who is left for us to bash???
      Jack Thompson.
      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    31. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you frustrated little wankers that infest this site would find something to bash. It's not like y'all need a reason.

    32. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Rob_Bryerton · · Score: 1

      2. there's no possibility to pirate a service;

      Tell that to the Cable TV industry ;) Oh, and quit misusing the word "pirate", please.

    33. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the Cable TV industry ;) Oh, and quit misusing the word "pirate", please.

      Pretty smart, except Cable TV is a one-way stream, I bet your TV doesn't communicate with your Cable provider using personalized login and settings

      You just have a card to decrypt a set of incoming channels and that's it.

    34. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

      http://www.apple.com/

      http://www.debian.org/

      http://www.openbsd.org/

      in case I missed somebody :-) -> http://distrowatch.com/

      ( I could go on and on here, no offense to any I left out )

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    35. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by mkw87 · · Score: 1
      Did you even read my post?

      I have tried various linux distro's and yes, I enjoy running them, but the headaches they cause are enormous, MORE SO than windows, and I said THAT RUNS MY GAMES AND APPS, none you listed meet those requirements. I shoudln't have to spend two weeks pissing with wine to MAYBE get my game to work.

      Fanboys are so damn blind.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    36. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by log2.0 · · Score: 1

      Remember, firefox is stillonly 10% and I estimate about 50% of the world simply wont switch. I have experienced these silly close minded people before..."but there is nothing wrong with IE. I will continue to use it"...meh

      --
      Can your karma go above being Excellent?
    37. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by patrixx · · Score: 1

      or

      Google beats MSFT and becomes even more dominant, ruthless, rich and "bad" than good ol MSFT was.

      We're back to square 1 again ;-)

    38. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're winning on the webserver and database front. They didn't have a webserver for sale when Apache first came to dominance. Now IIS is the fastest-growing webserver in terms of market share. Likewise, SQL Server is gaining market share, not losing it. Of the four you mentioned, only IE and MSN are doing relatively poorly (though both still make money for MS).

    39. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Fastest moving huh? How come Netcraft lists them as taking a DIVE since 2000? Anfd now they make a DEAL with a Hosting service to handle all their 'unused domains'? Thats success?? Even with MS buying paying off a domain hosting service (and having a large number of people dumb them as their service), Apache still shows a higher amount of growth year after year.

      In fact in the last two years, Microsoft LOST 5% of the market share (prior to paying off Blow Dady).

      So I hate to tell you this but the Microsoft PR department has been feeding you bullshit sandwiches and your teeth are now stained brain. Please take a breath mint and stop eating the dogfood.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    40. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      The whole browser-war scenario was a great ploy for Netscape to attack MS and get their big payday by selling AOL the legal windfall, but it really hasn't made MS the dominant portal or stopped anyone else from being successful on the Internet. In other words, none of the scary scenarios that were supposed to happen if IE became popular have come to pass.

      So just as having the dominant browser hasn't made MS dominant on the net, losing share to FireFox isn't going to hurt much more than their pride.

    41. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at the June netcraft report again. IIS is the only major server that gained market share on active sites, a stat that excludes parked domains. How does it feel to be an unpaid fanboy?

    42. Re:Nothin wrong with this... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Yes... by paying off vendors who host domains names to switch. DUH. Two months of changes where they had to PAY people to use their product does not a revolution make.

      Also keep in mind that those are all UNUSED domains. If their product was good enough to actually handle the traffic, don't you think they'd have a more active market share than just the stagnant sites they had to pay people to move to their product?

      So basically, you are saying that bribing people makes theirs a better product? Hosting domains with zero traffic makes theirs a better product? The fact that they pulled something similar in 2000 and LOST ALL GAINS means this time it's so much different?

      Are you paid directly by Microsofts marketing dept to be this ignorant or does it just come natural?

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  2. OK. Turn off slashdot. by gowen · · Score: 5, Funny

    We have now found the perfect slashdot headline.
    All the key memes are there.
    We need continue no longer.

    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  3. Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state... by ZSpade · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ever the follower, never the innovator.

    --
    Go ahead and call me unreliable; reliable is just a synonym for predictable.
    1. Re:Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state... by TerenceRSN · · Score: 1

      Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state...
      Filthy rich.

      I'd gladly give up any attempts at innovation and start following if I could get the money those guys at MS have.

      The real perpetual state isn't Microsoft's, it's the IT world which is so dependent on Microsoft. That's why Microsoft is so successful/entrenched, consumers, developers, administrators, managers, they all have strong and hard to break ties with Microsoft.

    2. Re:Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state... by John+Bokma · · Score: 1

      Always the whiner, but never funny

    3. Re:Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And far more successful than you ever will be.

    4. Re:Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So true, that's why Linux will forever hold the 95% desktop monopoly it acquired through innovation back in the 80s. Wait...

    5. Re:Ah, Microsoft's perpetual state... by m50d · · Score: 1

      Microsoft can innovate. Just look at Bob!

      --
      I am trolling
  4. Not challenging enough by neuroPuff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft will gladly embody software as a service. Infact, it might as well be their idea, as they are going to be generating much more revenue by doing this, effectively screwing the customer who has to pay more for the same poorly written MS code, and the customer will be more along the lines 'renting' the code since the eons of service renewals will never relent.

    The 'software as a service' structure could be one of the worst ideas ever. Google offers actuall services, to mix it up, Microsoft on the same terms would be taking the whole idea out of proportion. You don't want to have to, essentially, RENT Microsoft Exchange Server, for example, would you? As compared to Google, the software they do distribute is completly free.

    1. Re:Not challenging enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without the source code, the crazy EULA and nutso copyright laws, what exactly DO you buy?

    2. Re:Not challenging enough by jchoyt · · Score: 1

      Uh, you essentially rent software anyway. You don't actually BUY proprietary software. You acquire a license to run it. They can take that license away at any time, usually for any reason. The software always belongs to them, though. Software as a service is just the same thing, but the license has a expiration date.

      But you're right, it is a horrid idea.

      --
      Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from all that is known.
    3. Re:Not challenging enough by neuroPuff · · Score: 1

      Its not like the legalities ever got into anyone's way. If the rarity of a license removal were to be done, this may stop your average soccer mom, but most people may find a friend's copy or download their own copy of MS software and find the correct serial number/keygen. Idealogically, I think most people, at least, feel like they own the software they purchase. SaaS would make sure they don't even get the satisfaction of that.

  5. Um...their new? by GweeDo · · Score: 1, Redundant

    So, their new challenger? Would it be more accurate to say their "additional" challenger? They haven't even destroyed open source yet.

    1. Re:Um...their new? by grammar+fascist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So, their new challenger? Would it be more accurate to say their "additional" challenger?

      Nah. Microsoft can't concentrate on more than one opponent at a time.

      The funny thing is, I can't tell whether I'm being facetious, either.

      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    2. Re:Um...their new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funny thing is, I can't tell whether I'm being facetious, either.

      You were!

    3. Re:Um...their new? by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1

      You were!

      Thanks for clearing that up. :D

      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
  6. Downside! by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    When I have to rent my word processor and spread sheet program.

    This is vaguely similar to the RIAA, etc wanting us to merely rent music, or repurchase it in a new format every so often, instead of owning it outright.

    Music as a service. Software as a service. What's the difference?

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:Downside! by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No real difference and I think both are fine. You want to pay $x per song and own it forever, you can. You want to pay $x per month for unlimited use (but stops when you stop paying), you can. Choice is good.

      That said I personally like the software as a service model less than the music model. At least with the music you are constantly getting new material for the monthly price where software is (more or less) just paying for the exact same thing again and again. But thats just me and even in those cases depending on the monthly cost to "rent" vs the cost to "buy" it could still be a good deal. Anyway, I'm always glad to see more choices even it I don't happen to like one of them. Someone else might really like the other choice for some reason and I'm glad its available to them.

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
    2. Re:Downside! by Twiceblessedman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem will arise when the only choice left is the service model. It's not good for the customers.

    3. Re:Downside! by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I have to rent my word processor and spread sheet program.

      Software as a service plainly doesn't make sense for word processing or spreadsheets.

      But it does for search, or buying books, or news.

      The only problem (if you can call it that) is that the users are so not-locked in that it's hard to charge for the service (ok, you can charge for the books, but the users can still go to another online stop at the drop of a hat)

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    4. Re:Downside! by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At least with the music you are constantly getting new material for the monthly price where software is (more or less) just paying for the exact same thing again and again.

      Try to think of software-as-a-service similar to the way you think of electricity or water as a service. It's the same exact thing again and again, and you pay for it as you use it.

    5. Re:Downside! by penguinbrat · · Score: 1

      When I have to rent my word processor and spread sheet program.

      What about renting the OS itself - I wouldn't put it past M$ to try this...

    6. Re:Downside! by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I mean I understand the model, just I'd (as a rule) rather own the software. I understand the subscription model and am often annoyed by those who cry about "why do I have to keep playing". If you choose a product being served to you (like the softare as a service thing) then the company serving you that product has on-going costs associated with providing it. The ONLY equitable method to charge for this is some type of subscription model. I mean what are the other choices?

      Anyway, I do understand and in fact even do use one "software as a service" service. Heck, they just make sense in some areas. I'm just not quite so sure about other areas like office apps, etc. But again, for some people I'm sure that model will be perfect. Personally, I'm not crazy about it in many cases (what happens in case of internet failure, etc, etc, etc) but think its gerat the options are out there.

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
    7. Re:Downside! by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1
      Software as a service plainly doesn't make sense for word processing or spreadsheets.

      Even if "Office-as-a-service" made sense from the users' perspective (and I'd agree that it doesn't), I think it would be disaster for Microsoft.

      How many rarely or never used $300+ Office suite licenses has Microsoft sold over the years? If Office becomes subscription based and "pay as you use", they lose the the lion's share of that revenue.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    8. Re:Downside! by Bill+Dog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However:
      1) Electricity and water are consumed in using it. The provider then has to make more, whereas with software this is not the case. With software as a service there isn't even costs of packaging, stamping CD's, buying shelf space at CompUSA, etc. IANAEconomist, but this takes a product that has a very high initial cost but then a very small cost per unit sold, and moves it into the realm of even tinier costs per unit sold. Utility companies have relatively high costs per unit sold.

      2) Electricity and water generation equipment, that is, the means to buy something once and never have to purchase anything again to then consume all the electricity and water I want, is generally not feasible financially. Software is. We all stopped renting a telephone from Ma Bell when we could buy them.

      Let's face it, if companies didn't think it would be overall more profitable, they wouldn't do it. Kind of like extended warranties. That alone makes me think I might not be getting such a great deal if we are switched to this delivery and pricing model.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    9. Re:Downside! by ThousandStars · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd agree with your comment, but I think open source will obviate the issue. One can pay subscription fees for services or choose open source software one can use forever.

    10. Re:Downside! by retrosteve · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps the service model has advantages to the customers too. Since software depreciates almost instantly, you're spending quite a lot for something you're going to toss in 3-4 years max. Why is ownership so great again?

      For example, my $900 copy of Microsoft Office 2000 has pretty much no resale value now. Did I get $150 per year's use out of it?

      Chances are that I only used 2 of the 8 programs, and those I used a lot. But did I use them enough to pay $150 a year for them? Doubt it.

    11. Re:Downside! by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1

      It's only a downside if you stick with companies like MS in those fields of software. We already have alternatives, and we will have alternatives when they come out with new software that isn't around now. Open source software that's actually on your computer isn't going anywhere. I think they may well be successful in a subscription-based service, but in the end it will drive more people to open source alternatives and those alternatives will improve -- possibly at even faster rate with a somehwat larger user base. Even some people who can't live without Word or whatever may look into alternatives when they get tired of paying a subscription fee or just having to be online to use their software.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    12. Re:Downside! by LordMaxxon · · Score: 0

      or news.

      Warning: your link to www.slashdot.org goes to a domain squatter. The proper URL is here. There is no "www."

    13. Re:Downside! by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Where I live (in the country) our water service is 'pay once and never have to purchase again' except the expense of electricity to pump it out of the ground. I suppose since we have enough land, we could rig up some sort of method of making the electricity. It's at present cheaper and easier just to pay for that, though.

      And having spent $600 just this morning to have a crew of men come out, dig, and clear roots out of the septic system, I guess the 'pay once' can bite once in awhile. Just like a crashed hard drive can cost a lot when it crashes with all your apps installed.

      There's no perfect analogy, but if you need a word processor, the cheapest thing is to buy it once, IMHO. I certainly never expect to have to spend another dime on any software from Microsoft, as I have several highly useful versions of MS Office (including the 'newest' one I just bought on eBay, Office 3.0 for Macintosh) and have OpenOffice (even the source, so I can compile it for whatever 'architecture' I might choose in the future) for 'the path to the future.' I can't imagine 'subscribing' to a service for that purpose. I 'subscribe' for pay-as-you-go software services all the time when I sell items on eBay, though.

      Oh, and back to the topic of Music: I have various musical instruments including even a harmonica for my 'portable' music needs.

    14. Re:Downside! by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 1

      domain squatter

      What you say? http://www.x.org/ must surely have the same domain as http://x.org/ , since the domain is "x.org", the bit on the left is configuration internal to that domain.

      Anyway, www.slashdot.org redirects to slashdot.org instantly for me.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    15. Re:Downside! by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Its the other way, actually- software's value never decreases. Half the programs on my computer are 4 or more versions out of date, because I have no need of the upgrades. Why should I pay for upgrades I don't want, and in many cases (I'm looking at you Winamp) is inferior to what I have? On your office example- I own one copy of a word processor, it was Word Perfect from the mid-90s. If it wasn't for open source alternatives, I'd still be using it- it did everything I needed. Why would you ever upgrade a word processor?

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    16. Re:Downside! by BlueStraggler · · Score: 1

      Software as a service plainly doesn't make sense for word processing or spreadsheets.

      Actually, I think it does. It's been done for over 30 years, so there's nothing new about it. It's just a minor variation on the time-sharing mainframe and remote application server model. Even in a complete GUI environment, I used to regularly run expensive commercial applications off of remote servers, and interact directly with their windows through the magic of X's network transparency. It works like a charm, it's a great way to legally use software that is too expensive to purchase, and the technology is so old it's downright boring.

      Of course we had to purchase site licenses for all the relevant apps, install and serve them to our network, but changing that model to serving the apps from the software publisher straight to the internet is just a matter of scaling, and changing the billing system.

      I think the only reason it doesn't seem to make sense, is that most people have never experienced true network windowing mojo, so they assume the software would have to be different in kind than it currently is, such as AJAX or something equally clunky.

      I can think of another reason why it would make good sense. Modern documents are built of many elements that have different IP encumbrances - take the simple case of fonts. Good fonts cost money, and word-processor builders tend to include a limited set to keep costs down. But it sure would be nice to have access to many, many fonts (say, all of them) but only pay if you actually use them. Ditto for templates, graphics, etc.

    17. Re:Downside! by magicchex · · Score: 1

      You're an idiot?

      --
      How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
    18. Re:Downside! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still using (and being productive with) MS-Office 97
      I don't see any need to "toss" it and it's been serving me well for the past seven or eight years.
      I'd hate to imagine what I would have had to pay up until now if I had to purchase it on a subscription basis.

    19. Re:Downside! by krunk4ever · · Score: 1
      That said I personally like the software as a service model less than the music model. At least with the music you are constantly getting new material for the monthly price where software is (more or less) just paying for the exact same thing again and again.


      It depends on how it works. If paying $x/month gives me access to a suite of applications and new features and applications are constantly added, it'd be similar to the model.

      There's also times I only have a need for a software once (i.e. I have an video file I want to edit, but don't want to pay $xxx for a software I'll hardly ever use). In these situations, I'd like to rent the software for a week or a month and pay only a few dollars.
    20. Re:Downside! by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 1

      Ahhh! Thats a VERY good point! I hadn't thought of that. Not proud to say it, but I've more than once pirated a program because I only needed it to do a little job and didn't want to pay $$$ for it. I think I'd still like to own and run locally the stuff I use everyday, but your idea I find VERY appealing for those cases where I don't (as long as they don't try the crap the telcos do with a minimum 1 year sign-up, etc).

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
    21. Re:Downside! by funfail · · Score: 1

      He/she is not talking about the "www" part. Check the link at grandparent post. It's not linking to slashdot.org but slashot.org

    22. Re:Downside! by PygmySurfer · · Score: 1

      Why would you ever upgrade a word processor?

      To view the documents sent to you from other people who did upgrade? :)

      I think I'd have to agree though, looking on Microsoft's website, I don't see many features that justify upgrading, especially for non-business users. There's some nifty new colaboration features, but I don't think too many people actually use those.

      Pretty much, Microsoft is its own worst enemy. They've implemented just about everything necessary, so its harder and harder for people to justify upgrading. Now, it seems the biggest feature of Office 2007 is a new UI. Whether its actually more useful than the old version, or MS is just redesigning it to have something to sell, I don't know yet. I certainly don't see much else listed for features, though.

  7. Cross analysis of Ballmer's comments by packetmon · · Score: 1

    "If anyone gets in our way... We simply buy them and liquidate them. There are no questions about being on top our war chest poops money like scatamania video." ... After realizing what he had just said Mr. Ballmer ordered journalists to make necessary changes... "If you look at it competitively... the issue really isn't any one company, Google or anyone else," he said. "The question is, how do we get on top of and really drive business model transformations."

  8. Microsoft's business model will be the hurdle by WinEveryGame · · Score: 1
    Microsoft may see it on the wall, their executives may say that the world is moving to SaaS (Software as a Service), but it will be impossible for Microsoft to take a leadership position in this area.

    When you have a tens of billions of dollars coming in per year from one of your franchises (shrink wrapped applications), it is almost impossible to take even 5% hurt on that business to build a competing business which results in lesser revenue. (classic innvoator's dilemma).

    Microsoft will probably do a lot better in a network/subscription based business model in the gaming world though (because they didn't have significant stream of $$ coming in from their classic shrink wrapped gaming software business).

    1. Re:Microsoft's business model will be the hurdle by Cadallin · · Score: 1

      Problem: There is, comparativly no money in network game subscriptions. Even if they added Blizzard's WoW revenue, that might just offset what they're spending every month pimping the Xbox 360, and put MSFT Games Division barely into the black.

    2. Re:Microsoft's business model will be the hurdle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You make an interesting point. The customer isn't going to accept SaaS unless there is a price incentive to do so. Otherwise, the customer keeps what they already have (Office 97 in some cases).

      SaaS comes at the expense of traditional shrink-wrapped products. I doubt MS would never allow itself to fully commit to SaaS. I suspect their involvement is to limit the ambitions of others. They want to do just enough to discourage would-be competitors. Otherwise, they cannibalize their own revenue stream.

      In theory, satellite TV should kill cable. Yet the plans and pricing are such that cable lives on, despite the high cost of all that copper and fiber. They try very hard to avoid competing with each other. Maybe the MS SaaS strategy is along the same line -- exist as an alternative, but not such a good one as to hurt the shrink-wrap cash cow.

      Or maybe it's a way to deal with open source. Find a way to sell something that open source can't give away. As we all know, it is quite possible to give away software, but giving away SaaS is not going to be scalable like OSS.

  9. Software-as-a-service by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I'm aware that MS has been trying to sell its software as service instead of as a product (read: pay every time you use instead of paying just once) for ages, but where does that tie into them again trying to jump a train they missed?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Software-as-a-service by FudRucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      RE:"In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce."

      In Capitalistic society commerce controls the government :p

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    2. Re:Software-as-a-service by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      We have a winner of the "duh of the day" award.

      'tween you'n me, that's the punch of the "In Soviet Russia" jokes, that it's the other way 'round in the "free" world.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Software-as-a-service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft: Look at the success of google! SaaS is working for them! It's what the people really want!

      Software CEO's Everywhere: HUZZAH!

      Me: As a google fan, you guys know I wouldn't pay a dime for any of their stuff (excepting stock), right?

  10. Is this something new... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I been reading about software-as-a-service for months now in the trade magazines. So this isn't new. Is Micrsoft admitting that they dropped the ball on this one like the Internet in 1995?

    1. Re:Is this something new... by grammar+fascist · · Score: 1

      I been reading about software-as-a-service for months now in the trade magazines.

      So have I, and I haven't yet seen any software-as-a-service that I'd be willing to pay for.

      Why is everyone chasing this if nobody but the software businesses really want it?

      --
      I got my Linux laptop at System76.
    2. Re:Is this something new... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Probably because it's the "next big thing" and the vulture capitalists are whipping companies into that the direction. (As one of my college instructors told me, the "next big thing" is usually something that's been around for at least ten years before some notices it (i.e., the Internet is usually a prime example).) Also, subscription fees are a guaranteed revenue producer for the lucky company that dominates the market. Whatever that might be.

    3. Re:Is this something new... by kfg · · Score: 1

      Is Micrsoft admitting that they dropped the ball on this one like the Internet in 1995?

      No. Microsoft is admitting that their proposed model of charging a per use fee for a word processor was stillborn.

      The problem is that they don't seem to realize that quite yet. The "software as service" market is in areas entirely independant of traditional, standalone applications, which continue to work just fine standalone. A standalone search engine is just as stupid an idea as an "as service" word processor.

      Basically they're still dropping the ball on the Internet. They don't "get it," because they only understand centralized control. The very structure of the Internet is outside the realm of the corporate meme, so they don't even know how to think about it properly.

      KFG

    4. Re:Is this something new... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't new for M$. I remember them talking about software on a subscription basis when they first introduced windows ME (or was it 98). They have been flooging this horse carcas for a very long time.
      They know with their current market penetration,revenue growth will stagnate and upgrades do not produce significant new revenue streams. They have to do something to reinvigorate revenue growth.

  11. I'm not renting software by blueZ3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    from Microsoft or anyone else. I will either use OpenSource software that's free (as in beer) or in cases where I must have some functionality that's only offered in a proprietary package, I'll buy software outright. If the only way to get a particular bit of software is to rent it, I'll go without.

    Lots of the software that I use on a daily basis hasn't been updated in years. This is especially true of expensive packages like FrameMaker (5.5.6), Illustrator (v 10) and other software I purchased for consulting work back in the day. I'm not dropping another $600 on FrameMaker for the minimal feature updates (although I hear 7.0 has multiple levels of undo :-> ) though I needed it enough in 2000 that I dropped the cash. (I don't do warez, so that's not an option)

    I run Office 2000 (it came "free" with a PC) on my one Windows box, and don't see a compelling reason to upgrade. I certainly won't be paying Redmond a monthly rental fee to run an office suite. I allow Google to display ads, but I'm not paying Google any actual cash and I've pretty much trained myself so that I don't even see the ads anymore. Ballmer & company still don't get it.

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
    1. Re:I'm not renting software by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 0

      I agree. I'm switching over to OS (when I can) because I refuse to have my data held hostage.

      Are there open source versions of InDesign / FrameMaker? This is one of the main reasons Windows is still around for me, because I don't see it on the list

      The other MS/Adobe products are covered:

      * Photoshop -> Gimp. Yeah GIMP still sucks for PS users, but at least it is functional, and extendable. (i.e. It _badly_ needs a default PhotoShop keyboard theme/config and better CYMK support, before it replaces PS.)

      * Illustrator -> Inkscape or Sodipodi

      * OpenOffice -- Toss up if excel / calc is better, but at least we have functional choices.

      Cheers

    2. Re:I'm not renting software by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Sorry for the bad netiquitte

      Hey Blue, we might be in luck...

      Anyone tried Scribus ?

    3. Re:I'm not renting software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Interesting. Not able to drive it properly yet. (Running on Ubuntu, not tried the Windows version)

      No object transparency, but its reported to be working of sorts in the bleeding edge CVS.

  12. Finally by Swizec · · Score: 1

    Nice to see Microsoft trying to change in order to fit the market and stop trying to change the market in order for it to fit them.

    1. Re:Finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a joke, right?

  13. When it happens by ericdano · · Score: 1

    When Microsoft finally falls apart, it will be interesting to piece together the strings. And where the money went.

    Microsoft really needs to focus on it's core product, Windows. Get it out. Get it working well. All funds should be directed towards that.

    --
    It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
    I moderate therefore I rule!
    --
    1. Re:When it happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "When Microsoft finally falls apart, it will be interesting to piece together the strings."

      Too bad it won't happen in your lifetime.

    2. Re:When it happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm...when Microsoft "Falls Apart" as you say, we'll probably be so old and senile that we won't care, ot we'll be long ago in a grave.

      Sorry to blow your "MS is gona' fail!...day", but, get used to it...MS isn't going anywhere for a very long time.

      BTW...how's that impeachment coming?

      Mark me as a Troll if you are so compelled...but at least you've heard the truth.

    3. Re:When it happens by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      I take it you have never read "The Mythical Money Month"? Seriously, can Microsoft accelerate development on Vista by throwing more money at it?

  14. Standard Microsoft technique, throw money at it by 99luftballon · · Score: 1

    Don't think it will save them this time however. Microsoft faces real structural problems in moving to software as a service, as well as a complete reengineering of the financial model that has given them such deep pockets. One thing is certain, the standard procedure of putting stuff out for free and trying to dominate won't work in the service model, at least not in the long term.

  15. Re:OK. Turn off slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    We need continue no longer.


    We'll just need a confirmation from Netcraft, but then that's it.

  16. What about the orphans? by Rendo · · Score: 0, Troll

    Sure they're going to spend 6.2bn but that money could probably save a lot of poverty strickens kids in the 3rd world. Let's face it, it's a waste of money and Microsoft may make a few "good" products, and I mean a very few, but I think good PR would get more business.

  17. Microsoft, the new Linux provider by Britz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe they will throw a couple hundred millions at wine, make their own distro and then offer services around it? I doubt they will do that soon, since that would hurt their bottom line for the moment. But as soon as the other business model promises more profit they could be able to make the switch if they are prepared. As far as I understand they are getting ready.

    So maybe it is not time to dump your MS stock just yet.

    Like with the Xbox they would enter a competitive market. Maybe then they will make better products. At least they should be able to, considering all the brain power they are sucking up every year.

    1. Re:Microsoft, the new Linux provider by jchoyt · · Score: 1

      No, the time to dump MSFT would have been 5 years ago when it went flat

      --
      Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from all that is known.
    2. Re:Microsoft, the new Linux provider by slashflood · · Score: 1

      Microsoft, the new Linux provider

      *shudder* - That was gross!

    3. Re:Microsoft, the new Linux provider by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      Now is the time to sell Puts.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
  18. Funny you should mention by packetmon · · Score: 1

    ... Renting... Recently a former company where I worked wanted MS Exchange so off I went to get a quote and submit a proposal, etc. After speaking with an MS rep I found myself laughing at him on the phone and he too realizing what he was telling me... According to him I would need to buy Exchange Server and seats for my user. For 40 users total the price was over 4000.00 not a big deal until he mentioned I would only be able to use 5gigs of my 400gig drive. 5gigs? I said... "Yes if you need more space you have to buy another license..." Humorous...

  19. MS *and* open source by aoporto · · Score: 2, Informative

    Anytime I hear people talk about MS and open source, they speak of it as one vs the other, when in fact there is a lot of good open source written for MS platforms. Two of my favorites (both are BSD licensed) are:

    http://dotnetnuke.com/

    http://listring.com/

    1. Re:MS *and* open source by vidarlo · · Score: 1
      Anytime I hear people talk about MS and open source, they speak of it as one vs the other, when in fact there is a lot of good open source written for MS platforms. Two of my favorites (both are BSD licensed) are:

      You forget one thing: This piece of software depends on non-free software, which means you have a vendor-tie-in. I can not use this product without MS software. That means the software is useless in a free-software world. Read RMS' thoughts on java, Free But Shackled - The Java Trap for more thoughts on this. I agree with Stallman on this topic; a free software world requires all software to be free, and producing fsf-stuff designed to only run on windows harms the over all progress. Portable software is ok, but software dependent on properitary software is IMHO evil.

  20. Wow. by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    Talk about begging the question. Or staggering disingenuity.

    "We've got to make this transition, which our industry is making, from software as a product to software as a service ... If you want to be a leading software company, you've got to be a leading software-as-a-service company."

    Software-as-service (ie charge me every time I use it) instead of Software-as-product (ie I buy it and OWN it forever). Sound vaguely familiar?

    Mr Ballmer, see, it's not that the industry is making this mystical transition. YOU'RE DRIVING IT, DUMBASS.

    How ridiculous is it to be desperately trying to catch up to your own policy?

    That would be like the RIAA complaining that it's trying to keep up with "...all this complicated DRM technology..."

    --
    -Styopa
  21. Microsoft's new slogan by flobberchops · · Score: 1

    Microsoft "Because we also ran"

  22. The Day Microsoft Makes Something the DOESN'T Suck by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    ...is the day they make a vaccuum cleaner. ;P

    OK, all kidding aside I'm pretty sure Microsoft will stay afloat in the software as a service industry. After all it's only web stuff. While the web is a lot more complex than it was at the dawn of HTML/HTTP, it's also very limited. The most that web apps can achieve are consumer level apps that lots of Joe and Jane Averages use. ie. they aren't targetting REAL users yet. They're only going for the majority of users, so... ho hum. More of the same. Where Google offers a search engine, MS will offer a search engine with tail fins and chrome bumpers that gets less mileage per gallon and only refuels at MS stations (OS/browser lock-in). Hmmm... come to think of it, maybe that's why they're splitting the browser out of the OS now? They plan to make their web services more OS independent and perhaps will port the browser again?

    Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah. People like us who want REAL software that does REAL work (coders, media production, graphics, etc...) will never want software as a service in it's present and web limited way. The web needs to vastly change in the areas of bandwidth (at least 100 megabits/s at home as a start) and standard 'in browser' graphical functionality (being able to do realtime graphical rendering in 2D and 3D fo UI elements). Could you imagine some numbnut AJAX developer writing a video editor to work in a browser? Or worse yet as a Java or .Net (or even Mono) app? It would suck. The bottom line is that the web is not ready (and may possibly never be ready) to be a software platform for people like us. But Microsoft doesn't cater to people like us. They cater to Joe and Jane Average. So... in other words "Nothing to see here. Move along".

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  23. Missing the Point? by MaxPower2 · · Score: 1

    I am not sure that the pay-every-time-you-use model is what Ballmer was talking about. I am scared that Microsoft might release their products for free, but cram them full of so many ads that you want to puke. I am sure that GoDaddy would love to have a video with dancing girls with HUGE breasts played as Word starts. I hate ads and I hate application that are free and make you view their advertisements. Personally, I would rather buy some software with no ads, than get the same software for free with loads of ads.

    1. Re:Missing the Point? by thrillseeker · · Score: 1
      I am sure that GoDaddy would love to have a video with dancing girls with HUGE breasts played as Word starts.

      Oh yeah? Well, I'm gonna go build my own software! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the software!

  24. Personal use is not the only revenue stream by bec1948 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Our personal thoughts about Microsoft, Pro or Con, are not that relevant in the larger scheme of things. If we look at Microsoft's total suite of products as a fairly well integrated (and improving) stack of platforms, tools and user interfaces for collaborative work, then the move to Software as a Service is both logical and perhaps ultimately the way everyone will go.

    There are some many possible threads here that it's not possible to give a coherent discussion when I'm here at work, but here are some of the ideas that come to mind as an advantage of the concept from a somewhat Microsoft centric perspective:

    • Use the same applications on all devices (PCs, Macs, Phones, Game consoles, TVs, IPods, Things that haven't been invented yet)
    • For corporations only pay for software that's actually used, non a mass volume license that often includes wasted licenses.
    • Access to work from anywhere - Writerly and some of the competitors already offer a form of this
    • Smooth integration of multiple data types from almost anywhere into a document. Consider how complex linking content can be when you're doing it relative to your computer and its local (or LAN) storage. Now consider those links in a UDDI/XML/HTML Web

    Shortness of time limits clarity on these ideas. Resolving them in our discussions here can be fun, but I think Microsoft should pay us for the privlege. Don't you?

    These are all areas where Microsoft can bring a very rich user experience that will drive the competitors to greatly improve their offerings. It will also force Microsoft to be more open and accessible to other vendor's products, solutions and open standards. Resolving all the issues involved will take a long time. I've been involved with these discussions for over a dozen years now. I expect it will take another dozen for these things to work as well as we imagine them to.

    There's another point that's been made by others too. Moving from a license per box to a license per use and even mostly free stuff business model will be painful. Look at Novell. One of their biggest revenue problems is that the move to FOSS has occurred more quickly than they expected driving revenues down faster than they'd planned and could adjust for.

    Microsoft will feel similar pain, but is learning from all the pioneers how not to get shot in the back. It is what they are best at

  25. Transitioning to Irrelevance by ewhac · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Fine, Microsoft, go right ahead. Transition your business to, "software as a service." And when you get there, you'll realize there's no "there" there, and will implode to a business of relative insignificance.

    A hammer is not a "service." A paintbrush is not a "service." A car is not a "service." They are tools. And, unless people use them very infrequently, people don't rent their tools. They buy them so that they may own them. Software follows this analogy to a very high degree. Software is a tool and, as such, the market for "rented" tools is way way smaller than the pundits are predicting. This will become even more true as Open Source solutions continue to make inroads and force aside overpriced proprietary solutions that are buggier and offer almost no extra compelling functionality.

    Microsoft does know how to Pwnz0r and expand existing markets but, so far, they have largely failed to create new ones. Software-as-a-service is a dead end, especially for a company the size of Microsoft.

    Schwab

    1. Re:Transitioning to Irrelevance by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft's vision of the future should be as far ranging as the ideas of the founder. This business plan should be as perceptive as Bill was about the future in The Road Ahead... and I am sure it will be..

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    2. Re:Transitioning to Irrelevance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > A hammer is not a "service." A paintbrush is not a "service." A car is not a "service." They are tools. And, unless people use them very infrequently, people don't rent their tools. They buy them so that they may own them.

      Agreed. People don't pay service fees for tools. But they will pay service fees for data: stock market data, news, tv channels, movies, etc.

  26. Re:OK. Turn off slashdot. by delahappy · · Score: 2, Funny

    No we still need "AT&T looks to charge Microsoft for , the rival to Google's developed by former Sun and Apple employees, using too much bandwidth while microsoft's counter suite attacks AT&T for allowing the NSA to spy on their employees."

    --
    I can throw a one hundred thousand pound walrus right through a brick wall.
  27. Re:The Day Microsoft Makes Something the DOESN'T S by hal2814 · · Score: 1

    Then I guess they made one vacuum cleaner back in 1991 and called it MS-DOS 5.0. In an impressive feat for Microsoft, they managed to get it right the first time around. It did what it was supposed to do and did it well.

  28. Short Summary by Kesch · · Score: 1

    For some reason, the text in the article makes my head hurt maybe cause they like to use really-long-hyphenated-words.

    For the headache prone:

    Google scares us. We are putting more money into R&D while also copying Google's succesful business model. We want to be the best. Oh yeah, China should provide a juicy source of income, but we aren't seeing much revenue because of piracy.

    Oh yeah, the article notes that Microsoft has $35 Billion in cash.

    By estimations you could completely fill 16.5 olympic sized swimming pools with all that cash in $100 bills. It'd been even more volume if you wanted to be able to swim in it like Scrooge McDuck. (But think of the paper cuts)

    --
    If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
  29. Microsoft Has been pushing this for a while now by BinarySearchTree · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems microsoft has been pushing this for the last couple years.

    A monthly subscription software as a service model won't work that well, especially if microsoft is dumb enough to actually charge their monthly(or yearly, whatever) fee for windows itself. I don't think microsft would ever be that stupid but, things can change. Either way I don't think it would fly well with consumers who already pay an arm and a leg for M$ Software(which is mostly crap anyway) to pay for it again and again. Anybody who does the math will disagree with this software as a service idea, unless they have cash lying around that they are willing to waste.

    Do the math:
    $250(this can be higher of course) now OR $20/Month (really low estimate)

    $20 * 12 Months = 2*10 * 12 = $240 / year !!


    if they charge $50/Month: 5*12*10 = $600/year !!


    I think many will see this as a bad idea, and there will also be some willing to pay that much but as a model I think it will fail.

    1. Re:Microsoft Has been pushing this for a while now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A monthly subscription software as a service model won't work that well, especially if microsoft is dumb enough to actually charge their monthly(or yearly, whatever) fee for windows itself. I don't think microsft would ever be that stupid but, things can change.
      No, they'd never be that stupid. Optional today, mandatory tomorrow? You^H^H^H They decide.
    2. Re:Microsoft Has been pushing this for a while now by BinarySearchTree · · Score: 1

      What do you know they are that stupid....


      Unfortunately I know people that will fall for this hook, line and sinker.

      Guess they don't realize that it will cost them more in the long run.

  30. Software as a Service by vux984 · · Score: 1

    Figures,

    Just when Windows becomes bearably funtional and stable, and the Office suite is mature enough that the average user could run WinXP + Office XP for 10 years without having any reason to upgrade, then they decide that "software-as-a-product" is dead, time to make you start paying monthly for software-as-a-service.

    I'm surprised the furniture industry hasn't gotten in on this. Why do they sell chairs, tables, and sofas that last upwards of 10 - 20 years. Clearly the industry should get out of the "furniture as a product" business and move to a subscription or ad-supported "furniture as a service" model.

    And for all google's services, I use very few of them because I don't want ads all the time, in everything I do. Even if they don't flash or bounce. Even if they are "relevant". Sometimes I just don't want ads!!

    1. Re:Software as a Service by Zaphod2016 · · Score: 1

      Having just moved to my new appartment, with arms so dead tired I can barley type, this "furniture as a service" sounds pretty good- assuming they pick-up and deliver.

  31. What's the problem? by i+am+kman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's with all the rants about renting software. That's hardly the point of the article or service-based software.

    Service based software has many revenue streams and powerful advantages. First, it'd be great to have a virtual desktop that followed me whereever I logged into. Not only do my files follow, but I can login to a kiosk and actually edit my Powerpoint before a presentation (without the danger of locally saving it). This is a great model (with enough bandwidth) that facilitates collaboration and mobility.

    Second, many companies are already paying through the nose for a similar model. We pay hundreds of dollars/year/user for PC service support with software. Many folks only occassionally use the MS apps, but we have to buy licenses for each PC. It would be FAR cheaper if we could centrally host the applications and pay by usage. And this would also enable us to automatically backup files and allow users to access programs from home. Users often lose data when their desktop crashes. No more with service-based software!

    Third, look at the Turbo-Tax model. It's $70 for the desktop version (PLUS electronic filing fees) and $20 online with FREE electronic filing. The service based model would be similar. Pay $500 for MS Office or $40/year to use/access the same thing. It's likely to be MUCH cheaper.

    Fourth, they'll also license it to folks like Google who will then provide it to us for free (or VERY cheaply as a premier member) as a service and part of their total desktop management.

    Just wanted to point out that there's many good things about this. Dismissing anything MS does simply because it's MS totally misses the point. Sure, it could (and might) suck, but it could also be a great thing.

    1. Re:What's the problem? by monoqlith · · Score: 1

      I agree. The kneejerk reaction to software as a service is striking from Slashdot members, since typically the slashdot mentality is pro-availability as opposed to pro-(intellectual, private property) ownership. I think the service model benefits users as well as developers. It provides developers with a steady, reliable \ revenueand the users only have to be subscribed when they need to use the software.

      Let's examine the implications of the two models for the consumer:

      1) You spend several hundred dollars on an office or graphics suite so you can do word processing from home for your company. But, a couple of months later, you lose or switch your job or find another one, where you rarely need to use Office to complete assignments. Suddenly, you don't need the software anymore, and a lot of the value that the software originally had for you has been lost, along with a hundred or so dollars. And if you don't switch your job, you have to pay $100 or so every time a new upgrade comes out, so that you can remain compatible with all your co-workers.

      Or

      2) You pay $20 to rent a piece of software online so you can complete your assignment. A month later you realize you don't really need the software anymore, so you cancel your subscription. You've just saved yourself a couple hundred dollars, and the upgrades are installed automatically every time there's a new release.

      Of course, for people who need the software forever, $20/month is a lot easier to come up with than $300 at one time. And the cost pays itself back because the program is useful enough for you to keep renewing your subscription.

      No one loses. IMHO, software in the age of the internet more naturally fits a service model than a product model.

    2. Re:What's the problem? by TecKnow · · Score: 1

      First, I think you're mashing up several markets in ways that they aren't really related. You talk about business software liscencing as though they buy a liscence for every seat, for the majority of significant products that just isn't true and the pricing model looks a lot more like what you describe already. Businesses pay for a maximum number of concurrent users, and the liscences they have are deployed and recalled as needed from a central liscence server.

      It is unlikely that many businesses would invest heavily in the other aspects of the model you describe exactly because "your desktop follows you wherever you go," meaning your files are stored on a server controlled by a third party and that they can easily be spread around by users without them even thinking about it. Since the business is likely to desire a high degree of control over what employees do with the business's files, as well as what applications their employees have access to, and since both businesses and users have an interest in preventing the comingling of business and personal files, (especially if they are charged for storage and bandwidth which they almost certainly will be) it is quite likely that even if this became the only way of getting MS software MS would still be double-dipping because the user would pay for their personal account and their employer would pay for a separate work account for them.

      Further, if your files are stored on a Microsoft server as you imply, and there is no danger of saving them locally, as you say, (though this is doubtful) then what interest would Microsoft have in letting you have your files at all? Think about it, your monthly MS liscence fee could basically be a ransom on your data.

      I find it highly unlikely that MS would liscence their 'software as a service' to Google in such a way that Google could provide it free, or more cheaply than Microsoft. Why not charge Google at least as much per user as you'd charge the users themselves?

      So, discounting problems like "Where will the bandwith to support this model come from?" the basic hurdles here are, how will bandwith and storage be paid for? how would this giant pot-of-gold where user's files are stored be protected? how would the user be protected against malicious parties on route from those servers to (and including) the terminal? What if that kiosk you mentioned saved all the user data that passed through, or just the user's credentials? What kind of access control mechanisms would be put in place to allow businesses the kinds of control and separation of their files that they might need? and what garuntee do users and businesses have that MS won't just hold their data hostage?

    3. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "First, it'd be great to have a virtual desktop that followed me whereever I logged into. Not only do my files follow, but I can login to a kiosk and actually edit my Powerpoint before a presentation (without the danger of locally saving it). This is a great model (with enough bandwidth) that facilitates collaboration and mobility."

      I have this already, it's called nx. You're right, it's great! And it's free.

      "It would be FAR cheaper if we could centrally host the applications and pay by usage."

      Microsoft expects to get the same or greater level of revenue for their products by doing this. They're a corporation, increasing profit is what they do. So, it logically follows that people will end up paying more this way... although you might find yourself paying less you bet that the average goes up.

    4. Re:What's the problem? by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

      And let us look at the other model you so willingly to miss. I type up my mother's will on great software for $20/M. Why? Because - Insert 20 year old girl voice - "Everything is typed up in Word - it has been that way for ^ages^!" Do I pay that in perpetuity to keep that document upgraded? Or do I find out years from now the rules (and fees) have changed? That is a *person's* POV - and as a company it is scarier yet. All your data, all your corespondence, all your spreadsheets, visio digrams, publisher handouts .... **ALL** not available if you miss a payment. No thanks. 20 years later, you go to show your daughter your thoughts - but, darn, they ar a .doc, and the late fees are well, discount of 20% if you sign up now, 20 years later....hmmm..carry the one....ow. "Dear, it would cost me $1400 dollars to resubscribe at this point, sorry - here have the file, maybe you can get it cheaper in the future". Pretty far fetched eh? Not really - look up the original Software Assurance lic. It is exactly that in a nutshell. You would be an idiot to sign your company up for this.

      And before you say it, yeah, OS tools are 80% as good in the office.. I would take 80% and free over 100% and locked. Every time.

      Sera

      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    5. Re:What's the problem? by monoqlith · · Score: 1

      Yeah, see, I should have mentioned the whole "age of the internet" thing in greater detail. See, we're in the age of the internet, where if subscriptions for software can be paid for and delivered online then missing a payment isn't as big of a risk or a problem, since you can renew instantly. In fact the internet is what enables the service model to exist, since subscriptions can be bought/renewed online and the software can be very quickly delivered by download for relatively low cost per unit. $1400 for a renewal? I doubt that they would make you pay for the intervening months when you didn't use the software. More like you're paying $20 for a month's access to the software every time you want to use it. We need to get rid of this consumer attitude of excess - we're all about ownership in our country, and while it is fine to own your house, your car, everything else, many people spend too much on things they don 't use often at all just to *say*/*feel* they own it. In an age where transcations can occur almost instantly over the internet, ownership access is not meaningfully different from service access, and the benefits of service models for things like software outweigh the benefits of the ownership model..

    6. Re:What's the problem? by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

      oh, I dunno, several times in my youth I had to back pay on auto insurance, in one case 4 months worth. The other part about the insurance analogy is that this would be way to tempting to tier. notepad:$5/M, wordpad:$6.50, basic Word:$8, Word:$10, WordPro $15. I can see it for some things - heck tax software is essentially already there, they should be a subscription. But for basic stuff, blech. I agree with the ownership thing though. More than half the l33t pirates (music, movies, software, etc) I know get a lot more kicks out of downloading everything and anything they can rather than using it in some meaningful fashion. 4 years ago or so when 10 g hard drives were huge I knew a guy that had 80g of music he had gotten off the web, even better he had carved it inot a university network for his storage. I figured out from what he said that he could listen to that 80g 24/7 for months. I asked him if he did. Nope, he listened to like 2 hours of music a day - the big deal was getting/owning a huge music resource.

      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
  32. $6.2bn R&D budget? by JPriest · · Score: 1

    Did I read that right or does MS really have a $6.2bn anual R&D budget? For that kind of money they could provide all the software I use with Windows for free.

    --
    Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
  33. Re:OK. Turn off slashdot. by Fizzl · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's still missing a speculative question mark and the word 'killer'.

  34. Mod Parent Up... by anomalous+cohort · · Score: 1

    Right. The success of their office productivity suite will make it very hard for Microsoft to transition to SaaS as a company wide business model. They can certainly create new revenue streams in a SaaS model but they have too much investment in software for the client's machine to ever truly embrace the thin-client approach that makes sense for SaaS.

  35. In Other Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the biggest challenge facing microsoft today is how to part more fools from more money. to make more money, you have to do that."

    ladies and gentleman, watch your wallets on the way out.

  36. If you want to be a leading software company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    make software that doesn't suck and have a million things wrong with it

  37. Microsoft can't deliver quality software by monsterzero2002 · · Score: 0

    A service business model demands much lower cost per purchase but lots of repeat business. In order for customers to become repeat customers they have to be satisfied with the transaction. If not satisfied, no repeat business.
    So how can Microsoft dream of being "big time" in the service business when they historically do such a poor job of of keeping their customers happy?

  38. Am I the only one that sees a red flag here? by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "You want to pay $x per song and own it forever, you can. You want to pay $x per month for unlimited use (but stops when you stop paying), you can. Choice is good."

    I'm 100% in favor of people selling what they have to sell on their own terms. And if no one wants to take those terms, they sell nothing or change models. But I get suspicious when people say "let the consumers decide if they want X or Y" and Y is blatantly inferior to X.

    When millions of people seem to be choosing crippled, severely restrictive products over comparable ones that are unrestricted and cost less, you have a prima facie case for some sort of market failure, or anti-competitive activity. It could well turn out that the products are not actually a good substitute and the case is dropped.

    But no one would choose to have a broadcast flag limiting how & whether they can time/space/format shift the entertainments they purchase. Why do we all just assume the market is working fine, and this is one of those valuable things being put up for sale. The latest rms-bashing piece suffers from this lack of common sense. Your post doesn't necessarily suffer (but you could have made things clear by say '$x' and '$y'. The prices for the two options would vary -- greatly, if the market's working right).

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  39. Re:The Day Microsoft Makes Something the DOESN'T S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read it again... it's a JOKE moron. Vaccuum cleaners are SUPPOSED to suck. Idiot.

  40. Google/MS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...transition....not software, but.....software as a service..."

    Please dear g*d not this again. This has got to be the longest "transition" in history.

  41. And that's what MS doesn't really get by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    They're used to making money with companies, not the "average user". Sure, we all have our Windows and we all dished out 300something to Redmond (needn't comment if you didn't, the one or the other way). But compare that to even a small company and face that this is peanuts compared to what you have to dish out to only give 10 people a server, a database and the ability to access it.

    Google works by the "give a little, get a little, do it often, get a f..ing lot!" principle. You can of course buy their services, too, and get some better service that way. If you're satisfied with the "basic" service, just as fine. I guess they'll consider it advertising. And behold, it works.

    MS works akin to the creed "get a little, get a little more, get a f...ing lot!" Anything you want, no matter how small, you have to pay for it unless MS can immediately see a benefit in you having it for free, be it a bigger market share or locking you more tightly to their systems. Unfortunately, as a "normal" user, you don't care about 100% compatibility with your peers or that you might have to spend a few hours configuring everything to make it tick right. There's a free alternative? See ya, Redmond, I'm going with that free schtuff.

    Service, software or anything. Companies will buy, they need compatibility and an hour spent is more expensive than the product. Normal users will more likely go for the free alternative. Spare time is still considered free.

    In both senses.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  42. What's funny is MS not seeing that by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    MS sells primarily Windows and Office. As I understand it, that's where their primary revenue comes from.

    Windows 2000 or XP should be good for a long, long time. Remember Ballmer's famous "developers developers developers"? What's implied in that is that the developers want to reach as wide of a target as they can - that's why they're writing for Windows in the first place. The wider the target, the more software the developers sell. In short, to be operable on all flavors of Windows. Just last year I worked on a product and as part of QA we had to verify that it ran on Win95! Versions A and B!

    So IMHO, that pretty much makes Vista optional - and it's going to be for a long, long time. Unless MS figures out some amazing way to get the developers to aim for a smaller locked-in target. I mean, think about how many machines are out there running XP today. How is MS going to tell all of those people to stop it, upgrade, and start paying MS rent?

    And as for Office, if it's on a pay-as-you-go model, no business will stand for that for the same reasons. Again, they're competing against earlier releases of Office. And OpenOffice. Soon as a halfway competent accountant runs the numbers, the pay-as-you-go model will be avoided.

    I'll betcha Vista and pay-as-you-go winds up being Microsoft's next Windows ME. Nobody will touch either with a ten foot pole.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by mkw87 · · Score: 1
      I'll betcha Vista and pay-as-you-go winds up being Microsoft's next Windows ME. Nobody will touch either with a ten foot pole.

      In the business world, I wouldn't doubt it. But they are fuxxoring consumers making DX10 Vista-only, which means if you want to game 'with eye-candy', you need Vista.

      *Disclaimer, I play games for content, but I enjoy pretty graphics while I'm at it as well.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    2. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

      In the business world, I wouldn't doubt it. But they are fuxxoring consumers making DX10 Vista-only, which means if you want to game 'with eye-candy', you need Vista.

      They are??? Holy crap!

      Makes me wonder how many game developers are currently writing DX10 games.

      "Let's see...there are X 100 million DX9-WinXP boxes out there, and a few hundred Vista boxes in beta...and if I write my game for DX10, I lose the X 100 million XP customers....hm...."

      Another funny thought: What if Transgaming adds DX10 functionality to their package? The only way to play your new game if you don't have Vista is to switch to Linux! And they said it wasn't ready for the desktop... ;^)

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
    3. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1
      And as for Office, if it's on a pay-as-you-go model, no business will stand for that for the same reasons. Again, they're competing against earlier releases of Office. And OpenOffice. Soon as a halfway competent accountant runs the numbers, the pay-as-you-go model will be avoided.

      It depends on how they go about it, and whether or not the company is currently established. For example, if they let you buy office for $500 (just throwing out a number--no idea if it's high or low compared to current) or rent it for $50/year, the model makes some sense. Not only might it very likely be the cheaper option, but it permits you to always have the latest copy of a piece of software for no extra cost. And after the 10 years it takes to equal out, it doesn't seem unreasonable that a company would be updating Office every 10 years or less anyway--so it's not quite equal.

      For established companies, who have already (perhaps recently) shelled out for their copies of Office or what-have-you, it might make less sense--but suddenly it's a great option for startups. $500 a copy is a lot for a small company to shell out, but $50 is much more reasonable. When it comes time for those established companies to upgrade once again, though, the benefits of the pay-as-you-go model crop back up.

      It won't work if the pricing is too high, and probably won't work if it's too frequent. I think a company would be happier to pay $60/year than $5/month, just as an issue of conveinience.

      In short... it MIGHT work, but it will have to be done right.

    4. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by mkw87 · · Score: 1

      The games will be backwards compatible dumbass. But in order to get the eye-candy you will need DX10......don't speak if you are that uninformed, nice flamebait though.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    5. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

      Then by all means enlighten me.

      What's the "eye candy" that DX10 offers that DX9 doesn't have? I've seen that referenced here a few times. "Eye Candy". What exactly is it? DX9 is pretty thorough as is. What's added that's worth the bother?

      Please show me the spec that says DX10 games will run on DX9 systems. I know a lot of DX9 games won't run on DX8, so this seems like a breakthrough. I'd like to read more about it.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
    6. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by mkw87 · · Score: 1
      DirectX 10 adds an extra type of shader into the mix, the geometry shader. This type of shader has the ability to create extra triangles if requested to do so. One of the many benefits of this type of shader would be to create displacement mapping (a way to make textures and scenes look more detailed by adding the illusion of height to an otherwise flat texture).

      DirectX 10 is hardware limited as well, it gives graphic cards the ability to use unified shaders meaning that if the game is wanting to make use of pixel shaders all of the graphics cards onboard shaders can be used for that purpose if required meaning that there's much better usage of the chip at any one time which will speed things up.

      From ATI: DirectX 10 also allows new abilities for the developer such as morphing so expect to see monsters changing shape. Another new feature is the ability to get the graphics card to handle physics instead of the CPU, which can significantly allow more objects to be interacted with and making games more realistic. ATI showed off a demo a while ago which showed off an ocean where the wave physics were entirely done on the GPU rather than the CPU so expect more games to use this type of feature in the future.

      Some Info

      If you need more information, click me.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    7. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

      Summarizing your last post:

      DX10 adds more triangles and moves some of the physics to the card. Here is some info that says XP won't have it. And I can't find any info to support my backwards compatibility claim, so here is a link to Google so you can go find it.

      Thanks.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
    8. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by mkw87 · · Score: 1

      I think I've fed the trolls enough today.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    9. Re:What's funny is MS not seeing that by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

      My very thought.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
  43. Software as a service will stop piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once software as a service is definitely widespread piracy will dissapear. The main problem is that you make software and you cannot take control of it when a user installs or modifies it. He just disconnects from the net and is by his own. On the other hand, if you want to use a service you have to pay for it or you cant use it. The example is the xbox live for xbox360. Maybe you buy a chip for the console or use pirated games, but no one on earth will save you from paying the 5$ that costs. That is the way to go. If you use good software, pay for it. If you do not care support, you can use software for free. This is how canonical works.

  44. 6.2 bn? how many researchers is that? by fxj · · Score: 1

    let's say one researcher costs $100,000 then they can pay for 62,000 people doing R&D? This is ridiculous!!! I don't believe a word!

  45. Comp Sci Grads rejoyce -- Stockholders weep by rssrss · · Score: 1

    "Microsoft revealed that its R&D budget for fiscal 2007, which ends mid-2007, would rise to $6.2bn."

    They will be employing an enormous number of computer scientists, which should cheer up students in that field. OTOH, does M$ have anything to show for the expenditure? I haven't heard of it. The stockholders (and I am one) are getting restless.

    Come on Monkey-boy. Show us the money.

    --
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    1. Re:Comp Sci Grads rejoyce -- Stockholders weep by mrjb · · Score: 1

      The stockholders (and I am one) are getting restless.
      SELL!! SELL!!!

      --
      Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
    2. Re:Comp Sci Grads rejoyce -- Stockholders weep by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      1) Monkey-boy said in TFA "...Microsoft has returned $87bn to shareholders through buybacks and dividends since 2001,...", so you should've already seen the money.

      2) U.S. CS students should cheer up only in proportion to the amount of that R&D budget that's going to be spent here. MS has 6 research labs, and 3 of them are located overseas. And MS is now moving crypto research from their Redmond lab to their India one.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
  46. MS Office as a subscription service? by zish · · Score: 1

    Could this be the reason why they're purchasing Softricity? (Other than the obvious reason that SoftGrid is kick-ass)

    --
    Spork.

    P.S. Spork.
  47. Wrong! by jwiegley · · Score: 1

    No, nobody really wants "software as a service". What they want is a company that "services its software".

    All other tangible products come with warranties these days. If it's delivered broken it is repaired at the cost of the manufacturer. Microsoft wants to push the cost of their mistakes onto the customer through a restrictive subscription model.

    Software as a service is working for Google because currently they aren't limiting its use nor charging a subscription/service fee for it.

    It's not just "catch up", there's a big difference.

    --
    I will never live for sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
    1. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wont pay for an email account ro similar. This is avery basic service, but for example is a good practice to pay for hosting that supports php, cgi, sql or whaterver you may need. More space and bandwith you need the more you pay. I think if you plan to do something serious and you need little bit of a bandwith you can pay services for 5 or 10$ a month. Do you thing that is expensive? I dont. Of course, if you just want to experiment iespana or other free services are good for beginning. Actually google earth plus is not free (costs 20$/year), and if you really use GPS is very cheap. It all depends on your needs but the most important point is that piracy will dissappear. The goal is to sell 1000 licenses at 5$ instead of selling 5 licenses at 1000$. That is what has to change, the point of view.

  48. Re:OK. Turn off slashdot. by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1

    You forgot to fit games in there somewhere.

    --
    I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
  49. Who (consumers) are following the .... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    move from buyinmg software to renting software?

    I believe the article is a bit intentionally mis-leading....

  50. Me Too!!!! by philzama · · Score: 1
    For being an industry leader Microsoft says "Me Too!" alot.

    Just an observation. :)

  51. Re:The Day Microsoft Makes Something the DOESN'T S by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    But whatever the bandwidth, doesn't that kind of rendering need low latency as well?

  52. Ballmer's comments by big+dumb+dog · · Score: 1

    Ballmer's comments only make sense if you drink the company kool-aid first.

    If you have ever been at a Microsoft pep-rally, you know how scary some of these people can be. They are honestly very cult like.

    ...everything but the goat leggings.

    --
    "Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f-ing Peace Corps." - John 'Bluto' Blutarsky
  53. My response to the article title by British · · Score: 1

    "Hotbot dot yahoo!"

  54. Re:The Day Microsoft Makes Something the DOESN'T S by xMilkmanDanx · · Score: 1

    Depends on the application. And if it's rendering client side then the latency of the info doesn't figure in unless you need the data in a time significant manner (real time gaming) as opposed to normal application where short delays in getting the info is acceptable.

  55. Oh, yes you are (going to rent MS Office) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft didn't get to where it is by allowing you a choice. Microsoft will go to your boss's boss's boss (or higher if necessary) to do this. If you're independent, then they just have to go to Dell and prevent them from "selling" you a machine. This is about lock-in, not trying to convince you. As long as you can not "buy" a machine running Vista and you can't collaborate with people who do unless you "subscribe" to a Vista machine, you will not be making a choice. (My subscription to quotation marks has expired, or I would have put a pair around the word choice.)

  56. plenty of other expenses by drewness · · Score: 1

    let's say one researcher costs $100,000 then they can pay for 62,000 people doing R&D? This is ridiculous!!! I don't believe a word!

    You're forgetting support staff, administrative staff, machine costs, cost to either rent or build office space, etc. Not to mention that benefits for employees are going to cost around as much as their salaries, give or take. With researchers, you also have to pay to send them to conferences so their work gets heard. And don't forget that Microsoft Research sponsors a number of conferences. I know they are a sponsor of the Association for Computational Linguistics (ACL) annual conference, for one.

  57. MS barking up wrong tree here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think there are two discussions - one for consumers and one for corporations.

    The consumer discussion is really about "software-as-FREE-service" - not "software-as-service." Nobody will be able to convince me (or any other consumer) that software that performs basic functions (like word processing, presentation and spreadsheets), that sits on servers (where it is easily maintained and updated) and is used by millions of users, will cost anything in the long run. "$6.2 Bn" in development cost my foot; freeware that performs these functions has been available for twenty years. Most computers come with freeware that does all this stuff anyway.

    These software services will cost pennies per month per user in terms of server capacity and bandwidth. The ONLY real costs have to do with storage; the rest is cheap.

    Advertisers will queue up to pay these modest costs in unobtrusive advertisements - like a banner at the top of your browser window that is aimed at who you are, not what you are typing (too intrusive).

    I think that this is the market that Google wants; it would sit well with their Gmail customers. Apple also has a similar market segment in its .Mac users.

    Corporate customers are a different story. They want absolute security for their data; how Microsoft (or Google, for that matter) will guarantee that on the open Internet will be interesting to watch.

    Corporate power users are completely different from consumer users; these people run spreadsheets (just to name one app) that use the entire resources of the same PC boxes that are used as servers.

    It has taken corporations 25 years to get used to using, maintaining and paying for PCs with MS apps; let's see how long it takes for them to just toss all that investment out the window so they can pay at least as much for "software-as-service."

  58. MS Web 2.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So are they going to rewrite Vista as an AJAX app?

  59. software as a service == Linux Distro? by alucinor · · Score: 1

    I tend to think of software-as-a-service not just as HTML/Javascript/XML delivered over the Web, but also as packages downloaded from a distro repository. Isn't the open source software repository model a software-as-a-service model, too?

    --
    random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
  60. Re:OK. Turn off slashdot. by TheDreadSlashdotterD · · Score: 1

    AT&T to charge for Google's M$ killer. Sun && Apple to join the feeding frenzy. Will this help Ubuntu?

    --
    I have nothing to say.
  61. They don't get it by alucinor · · Score: 1

    The new services model is not software-as-a-service, like MS thinks it is. The service is not the software itself. A service can be implemented as software. A service can also be implemented as human technicians. But the price of software by itself, as a separate entity, is fast approaching $0. Hence, in the open source model, you build services around software -- be they software-driven services like the Red Hat Network, or human-driven services like on-call support people.

    But renting software? That's ridiculous.

    Premium software as a product is not going anywhere. But there's a certain level of commodization now, that people aren't going to be willing to rent or eventually even buy, like office suites.

    --
    random underscore blankspace at ya know hoo dot comedy.
  62. Will Google become Microsoft's new Apple Killer? by roscivs · · Score: 1

    Will Google become Microsoft's new Apple Killer?

    --
    ~ roscivs
  63. but... by jefu · · Score: 1
    But they won't charge $50/month. They'll charge $10/month plus a startup cost (which many users won't see, just as they don't see the fees charged when they buy MS Windows with a new computer - and MS has too much of a good thing going there to ever let go of this income). Clearly, over the lifetime of the machine, this will add up to far more than anyone is paying now, but people will think something like "Only $10, thats nothing." and pay without a problem.

    It will look all the less as MS will then be able to up the price for a permanent license for their OS (or Office or whatever) to $500 or more, so everyone will think they're really saving money.

    And of course, with patented Office file formats, a new MS image format and all, nobody will want to risk losing their data by not continuing to pay the monthly fees. Even better, with WinFS, it may be hard to even copy any file to another OS without losing data.

  64. incredible... simply incredible... by amavida · · Score: 1

    Six point two _BILLION_ dollars (us) to come up with crap like Vista et al ???????

  65. Especially true for front-facing software by alispguru · · Score: 1

    The rental aspect of software like Exchange is that you can really only use it while Microsoft supports it. Once they stop supporting a particular version, any new security holes in it stay open, making it way unsafe to continue to use it.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  66. The fanboys are right. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    If you are so stuborn to keep demanding that an all purpose machine does specialized task then you will be screwed and deservedly so.

    You wanna play games? Buy a games console.

    You wanna have a general purpose machine? Use something open, I would say Linux.

    Your problem is that you insist in playing games for a machine that is not designed to do so. Well, pay the premium for it, but there are clea alternatives, you are just chosing to be locked.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:The fanboys are right. by mkw87 · · Score: 1
      You wanna play games? Buy a games console.

      I have an xbox, first person shooters on a console suck.

      You wanna have a general purpose machine? Use something open, I would say Linux.

      Who said my machine was general purpose? It's not, its multi-purpose, that's why it's a computer, and not a console. Computers are made to do multiple things, hence why I invest in the newest technology for that instead of 10 other things (ie: consoles, tv's, etc; why buy a newer TV when I could buy a nice large monitor and watch TV on it instead? Why buy a new console when in 2-3 years it will be outdated when I can buy a computer and upgrade a part or two a year and get the ability to do many more things with it).

      Your problem is that you insist in playing games for a machine that is not designed to do so. Well, pay the premium for it, but there are clea alternatives, you are just chosing to be locked.

      Not designed to play games? Are you kidding me? Did you seriously just say that computers are not designed for playing games? So MS developed directX because it was bored? Good one, keep trolling buddy, you might catch something in a few years......or in a pro-linux article.

      As for clear alternatives, could you explain what you are talking about? I have a console, graphics are sub-par, they are overpriced, games are even more overpriced, they are not upgradable, they are not as customizable/moddable (games and the system both), etc.

      Your problem is you are a fanboy, my problem is that the products on the market isn't perfect. At least I forsee a solution to mine in the future.

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
  67. MS Barking up the wrong tree by Gyorg_Lavode · · Score: 1
    Microsoft is making a big mistake in mimicing its competition instead of taking a different road. I agree that software as a service is and will stay big, but there is another road no-one has really even touched yet.

    Currently, we are in the midst of a transition for home users to a client/server model. Their home computer is the client. Google is working hard to be the server. They want to supply your email server, your photo server, your video server, your communication (IM/VOIP/etc) server, your news server, and your file server.

    Microsoft should be combatting that, but should also be moving in a different path. They should be building software, (and encouraging the building of hardware), that moves all those servers into your house. They need a new version of windows, named "Windows Share" or such, that provides all those servers with the minimal setup, "We will now sign up a domain, (If you know what this is and already have one, click HERE)", the same way they do for email. They could even push a shuttle-esque hardware appliance that comes almost completely setup. Plug it into your internet connection and go.

    Microsoft could sell this in many fronts. "Own your own data" "You deside your storage, not google" "Always fast access around the house" "Don't upload your data twice, do it once to your own server" etc etc. More-over, they could then set up a service to ADMINISTER the computer. They take over all those silly upkeep jobs, (similar to what AOL does already), and you don't even have to think about the server, it just works. And microsoft makes a handy profit simply from pushing patches and security tools, and rolling back computers when they stop working.

    --
    I do security