Lawyers Ordered to Play RPS to Settle Dispute

Rent-to-Pwn writes "After the lawyers involved couldn't settle even the most basic disputes without court intervention, a federal judge ordered the two lawyers to play one (1) game of rock, paper, scissors to settle the dispute. Being a federal case, in theory, it could become precedent for similar, unimportant decisions. Of course, there's no mention of what the two lawyers are supposed to do in case of a tie ..."

Comments

Geez... what a precedent

[Nefarious Wheel]

I can't wait to see what Groklaw has to say about this precedent. Or who owns the game...

Re:Geez... what a precedent

[metalog]

What precedent? The game was to settle the location of a deposition, not the case itself. They where fighting over what floor it should take place since their offices are in the same building. The whole thing is ridiculous and the judge responded accordingly.

Re:Geez... what a precedent

[StikyPad]

Fortunately, games cannot be owned, under current US IP law. They can be pwned, but that's something altogether different.

Re:Geez... what a precedent

[bobscealy]

Photos from the court:
http://shellcore.smspower.org/pictures/screenshots /alex_60.png

Re:Geez... what a precedent

[fm6]

That's a pretty good summary. Some analysis is in order, though: it seems to me that the purpose of this ruling is not so much to settle the argument as to publically censure the two opposing counsel for failure to achieve adulthood.

Re:Geez... what a precedent

[Adhemar]

The World RPS Society writes (in an update to this story):

Pro Player Mr. C. Urbanus quickly offered his consulting series to one of the lawyers and received the following response from one of them: Fortunately, we, the attorneys have worked out our differences by agreement. We will not have to resort to combat by RPS. Thanks again and best of luck.

Sidenote: "Combat" is that what lawyers are calling "conflict resolution" these days??

Personally, I was more surprised by the existance of pro RPS players than by the use of the word combat in legal conflict resolution.

Re:Geez... what a precedent

[lptport1]

Unfair or not, it is important that people express themselves clearly, and spelling is an integral part of written communication. When I read through a document and find mistakes such as "then" instead of "than," I find my opinion of the author's communication skills to be lessened. I also tend to think a person who doesn't know the difference is less knowledgable than someone who does. I have more patience for people who use English as a second, or greater, language, as I would barbarize another language in both speech and writing.

Basically, if a person does not know the difference when writing a word, why would they know the difference when reading it? That affects their comprehension of the material, and their communication of it.

probably as fair than most legal proceedings

[batray]

Since there seems to be a great deal of chance in any legal proceeding, it makes just as much sense, if not more.

Re:probably as fair than most legal proceedings

[xwipeoutx]

The game is to settle a dispute between the location to hold a deposition.

The funny thing...FTA:

counsel shall convene at a neutral site agreeable to both parties. If counsel cannot agree on a neutral site, they shall meet on the front steps of the Sam M. Gibbons U.S. Courthouse, 801 North Florida Ave., Tampa, Florida 33602.

Re:probably as fair than most legal proceedings

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawyer #1: "Rock"

Lawyer #2: "Paper"

L1 "Aha! I win"

L2 "No you don't! Paper wraps rock, it says that right here under section 1A of the rule book."

L1 "Look, according to the expert witnesses, rock would rip right through paper. We have a geologist to testify to the strength of rocks, and a materials engineer to testify to the relative weakness of paper."

L2 "Well, we have a person from the Rock Paper Scissors assosiation and another from the paper industry, both of whom assure us that paper wraps rock."

Etc, etc ad infinitum....

Re:probably as fair than most legal proceedings

[Petrushka]

Perhaps. We'll see. From TFA:

In an interview, plaintiff's lawyer Pettinato says, "I'm going to comply with the court's order to the letter." Defense lawyer Craig did not respond to a phone message ...

Re:probably as fair than most legal proceedings

[Gorshkov]

Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.

Perverted is when you eat the chicken afterwards.

Good old rock...

[Anonymous Coward]

...nothing beats rock.

Re:Good old rock...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess we all know to use paper when playing against you then.

Re:Good old rock...

[legallyillegal]

fools..... nothing beats TIGER CLAW

Re:Good old rock...

[TripMaster Monkey]

It's a reference to a Simpsons episode:

LISA: Look, there's only one way to settle this. Rock-paper-scissors.
LISA'S BRAIN: Poor predictable Bart. Always takes 'rock'.
BART'S BRAIN: Good ol' 'rock'. Nothin' beats that!
BART: Rock!
LISA: Paper.
BART: D'oh!

Re:Good old rock...

[qyiet]

...nothing beats rock.

[Scissors]Nerf rock!!!!
[Scissors]Nerf rock!!!!
[Scissors]Nerf rock!!!!
[Paper] Actually I think rock is fine

Damn...

[CWRUisTakingMyMoney]

Damn, and just when my faith in our justice system had been fully restored...

Re:Damn...

[arborlaw]

Damn, now my faith in justice *is* restored. 'Bout time some judge splains to those lawyer-types how important it is to play nicely in the sandbox.

I wonder...

[jfclavette]

... if they're allowed to summon expert witnesses.

Re:I wonder...

[Pollardito]

and perhaps they can work together to finally settle the questions surrounding the existance of Dynamite as a fourth choice

Re:I wonder...

[ultranova]

It said that you should always start with scissors because the other person will uncounciously make the connection that rock is the strongest position and then, "to be clever" use paper. Ergo, you should use scissors.

No, you should use rock. If you lose, you can use it to bash the other guys head in and win anyway ;).

In case of tie....

[ClamIAm]

Sue for unsportsmanlike conduct. Or something.

Chose your weapon

[slashbob22]

I use my +9 Rock of Justice!

PBF

[falzer]

PBF said it best: There's only one way to settle this.

A training manual...

[Skidge]

I'd recommend The Official Rock Paper Scissors Strategy Guide.

wont work

[illuminatedwax]

You know they'll spend at least 2 hours arguing over on what count to shoot, what hand gestures constitute "scissor", "paper" and "rock", how to dispute ties, etc., etc.

Rock Paper Scissors

[Sentri]

Well son, you've gone and got yourself in for a battle.

Heres what you gotta do:

study up http://www.worldrps.com/ and get this http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743267516/ theofficiaroc-20

You may want to get some fancy RPS gear, http://www.worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_wrapp er&Itemid=53, and dont bother bringing that rolex, it will slow you down

Also, we knoe those who ignore history are doomed to repeat its mistakes, so why dont you read up on the history of the game too, could come in handy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock%2C_paper%2C_scis sors

Re:Umm...

[UserGoogol]

This is news for NERDS, not news for techies. There's more to being a nerd than just liking technology. Another common characteristic is an antiauthoritarian sense of humor where "silly" things are put into ordinarily serious situations. For instance, said comedic device was very popular on Monty Python, a nerd standby.

game on your honor

[agendi]

I originally mis-read it as "Lawyers Ordered to Play FPS to Settle Dispute".

Echo's of "QUAD DAMAGE" and "J00 CAMPING SOB" in the Halls of Justice.

With so *much* at stake...

[Nerdposeur]

...perhaps a duel would be more appropriate.

Play Paper!

[catch23]

Since there's still time before June 30 (the date of the RPS game), I'd play paper. As world rps so eloquently describes it:

Paper is often considered the most subtle throw. There is nothing aggressive about the limp documents that move through our desks and offices. Even the gesture used to represent paper is peaceful - an open palm like that used in a salute or handshake. Historically, an open palm has been a sign of friendship and peace because an open hand cannot hold a weapon. Some players, who unconsciously perceive Paper as weak or a sign of surrender, will shy away from using it entirely or drop it from their game when they are falling behind. On the other hand, Paper also connects with a player's perceptions about writing. There is a quiet power in the printed word. It has the ability to lay off thousands of employees, declare war against nations, spread scandal or confess love. Paper, in short, has power over masses. The fate of the entire world is determined by print. As such, some players perceive Paper as a subtle attack, the victory of modern culture over barbarism. Such players may use Paper to assert their superiority and dignity.

Re:Play Paper!

[Shishberg]

If players tend to shy away from paper, shouldn't you play rock?

Alternatively, this bit probably applies best to lawyers:

On the other hand, Paper also connects with a player's perceptions about writing. There is a quiet power in the printed word... As such, some players perceive Paper as a subtle attack, the victory of modern culture over barbarism. Such players may use Paper to assert their superiority and dignity.

...in which case, the rational throw would be scissors.

But if the other side will rationally choose scissors, then the sensible course of action is to throw rock.

But if the other side reasons the same way, then obviously you'll have to play paper.

Either way, never get involved in a land war in Asia.

And in 20 minutes...

[PixieDust]

Cue Bush, along with a few other random politicians screaming about "activist Judges."

"We are appaled by this decision. Including Rock and Paper in a decidedly Scissors arena is yet another tactic by activist judges trying to legislate from the bench. They keep pushing this kind of alternate agenda down our throats. Alternate Dispute Settlement indeed! Keep your Rock and Paper away from my Scissors. We don't need that kinda stuff here!"

... it has to go and do something like this ...

[pavon]

and totally redeem itself!!!

RTS?

[Whyte Panther]

And the scary thing is, I misread the headline and thought they might have to play Warcraft III for the decision.

Rock Paper Scissors Spock Lizard

[PayPaI]

Rock Paper Scissors Spock Lizard

"Has the jury reached a verdict?"

[Spittles]

"We're about to your honor... one.. two.. three.."

Re:"Has the jury reached a verdict?"

[RsG]

Jury "The verdict is Rock your honour"

Judge "Very well. Death by stoning."

I shudder to think what they'd do for paper. Death by bureaucracy? :-P

Re:Funny yes....but "your rights online"?

[FooAtWFU]

You're right.

It obviously belongs in Games.

Guess we'll have to Roshambo for it!

[RoadWarriorX]

I can see it now....

(Digging for Arrowheads)
Pip: OOH! OOH! I think I found one!!
(Cartman has hold of the other end.)
Cartman: No, I found it!
(Cartman and Pip hold the large arrowhead by opposite ends.)
Pip: Oh, I do believe I found it first.
Cartman: No, I did!
Pip: Oh, dear...
Cartman: Well, guess we'll have to Roshambo for it.
Pip: What do you mean?
Cartman: Well, first I kick you in the nuts as hard as I can. Then you kick ME in the nuts as hard as YOU can. And we keep going back and forth until somebody falls. Last one standing gets the arrowhead.
Pip: Oh, my. Well, I suppose if I must...
Cartman: Okay, ready? I'll go first.
(Cartman takes a step and hauls off, kicking Pip square in the balls. Pip immediately turns blue and falls to the ground coughing. Cartman looks pleased. After Pip stops coughing, he finally manages to speak.)
Pip: Well, I guess you win.
Cartman: Oh, I don't care, you can have the stupid arrowhead. I don't want it.
(Cartman tosses the arrowhead down to Pip, who is still lying painfully in the dirt.)

--
That would make court dramas interesting!

In related news...Betting on the event has begun.

[Mindragon]

June 7 (Las Vegas) -- Bookies in Las Vegas have already begun accepting bets. 1.2 to 1 odds are that the winning lawyer will pick Paper over Rock.

The law for kids

[Tell999]

It makes me sad to learn about a judge who chicken out insted of telling those in question to grow up. Is it all down to fear of offending someones feelings...

Coin flipping

[interiot]

Well, various US states also say that a coin flip is a valid way to break a tie in elections (eg. in Washington).

I mean, sometimes officials can state with a fair bit of certainty that 1) it very important to make a choice... you can split the baby in half, and 2) with statistical certainty, that either outcome is equally prefered. In this case, such a procedure is appropriate even in law or elections.

Re:Games are patentable

[CaptainCarrot]

Yes they can, but only if they are new and non-obvious

Oh yeah?

Actually, its mostly because the issue is trivial

[patio11]

The judge was sort of miffed. The issue that was decided is "Where do we have a deposition?" This is something that people who were not petulant two-year olds could agree to in a matter of seconds ("Your place or mine?"). What makes it *particularly* a waste of the judge's time is that the two firms are located in the same office building, four floors from each other. So the judge said essentially "Heck if I care, flip a bloody coin and stop wasting my time", except with rather more tact.

This information comes from www.overlawyered.com.

It was almost the perfect crime...

[Floydius]

but you forgot one thing. Rock - Crushes - Scissors! -- But, Paper covers Rock, and Scissors cuts Paper! Kiff, we have a conundrum! Search them for Paper, and, bring me a Rock.

Spoilsport...

[Graboid]

Gee - it's no fun when you spill the punchline.... Subtle references are best left unexposed so the inner sanctum can continue to feel superior to and laugh at all those unknowing fools who have yet to master the intricacies of modern cartoons.

So, why don't you just bite my shiny metal ass? Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

Re:Spoilsport...

[Ythan]

>>So, why don't you just bite my shiny metal ass?

This is a reference to Bender, a character on the cartoon Futurama.

Obligatory

[ari_j]

...except paper...

But scissors beats paper! Kif, we have a conundrum!

Re:Actually, its mostly because the issue is trivi

[anagama]

This is something that people who were not petulant two-year olds could agree to in a matter of seconds ("Your place or mine?").

TFA isn't clear on who called the deposition. Most lawyers like to have depostions they call performed on their home turf. The notion is that there is some psychological advantage to have the depostion occur in their own lair rather than in a place the witness will feel comfortable. It's likely the defense called this deposition because Plaintiff wants it set up in a neutral territory -- the court reporter's office -- and the defense wants it at its office. That's my guess at the motivation behind their wrangling anyway. It's pretty traditional for the person who calls a deposition to get to name the place (*), so it is understandable that the defense would be frustrated. One thing is certain, nobody scores points with the judge if the question of location is brought to the court.

(*) There are of course many perfectly valid reasons why deps might be held elsewhere than the office of the party who called the deposition.

Re:Games are patentable

[Kadin2048]

To be fair, that patent was eventually shot down, or so I heard. Basically the USPTO invalidated all of its claims, and then the holder just declined to pay the fees and it expired.

Still, whatever examiner passed it ought to be punished in some sort of humiliating way.

I have heard from a friend who is starting work as a patent examiner that they have totally revamped their recruitment and training programs. Now, instead of going through nominal 'welcome aboard' training and being shoved out onto the floor and told to start processing patents, there's like 8 or 9 months of training, following which you're basically an apprentice to somebody more senior (where they have to approve/rubberstamp your work) for a while.

There still seems to be some obvious issues, like the number of patents you process per day/week influences your promotions, so that there's an indirect reward for pushing more paper, but they do seem to be making some progress.

Still, I wouldn't mind seeing them drag out a Dunce cap for patents like that.

RPS25

[Darth Paul]

I'd like to see 'em playing RPS25. That'll be a great way to rake in those legal fees :)

See, Saddam did it - he was way ahead of his time!

This is nothing

[Raul654]

Rock-paper-scissors was used in this case to determine which lawyer could choose the location for the deposition. A minor aspect of a minor part of the trial.

On the other hand, in New York City courts determine which judge is assigned to the case (a CONSIERABLY more important question) are by spinning a wooden wheel with all the judges' names on it. (I'm sorry I don't have a citation)

Guns Do!

[ImaLamer]

I swear that when I saw the headline I was thinking "Real Person Shooter" !!!

R typically stands for real in these cases, and not being familiar with rock as a choice, I figured they were going to duel. I like that we can sometimes take the justice system back a few hundred years every now and then. Maybe they should just tie up both parties and throw them into a body of water - whoever lives obviously is wrong!

missed the obvious issue

[cybersekkin]

The judge basically is saying you are acting like kids so settle it like kids.

from 4chan

[Tab is on Slashdot]

"I understand that scissors can beat paper and I get how rock can beat scissors. But there's no fucking way paper can beat rock. Paper is supposed to magically wrap around rock leaving it immobile? Why the hell can't paper do this to scissors? Screw scissors, why can't paper do this to people? Why aren't sheets of college-ruled notebook paper constantly suffocating students as they attempt to take notes in class? I'll tell you why, because paper can't beat anybody, a rock would tear that shit up in two seconds. When I play rock/paper/scissors I always choose rock. Then when somebody claims to have beaten me with their paper I can punch them in the face with my already clenched fist and say "OH SHIT I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT PAPER WOULD PROTECT YOU, ASSHOLE."

Cool Judge!

[Opportunist]

He did the right thing. It wasn't about the case itself, it was about a minor, completely unimportant issue that was simply an immature dick-waving contest between the lawyers, not much different from the usual schoolyard "I want to be right!" bickering.

His solution was quite appropriate to the situation presented. And it just might have shown the lawyers how silly the dispute was.

Toss a coin

[old man moss]

In English elections the outcome is decided by the toss of a coin if the vote is still tied after a number of recounts.

I recall this happened in two seats in this year's local elections (where the number of electors is small and the turnout is even smaller).

One of the losers was interviewed on the radio and seemed quite cool about it - "fair enough", he said.

A simple gamer test

[tfftruoa]

When you first read the headline, did you think it was a typo that should have read "FPS" or "RTS"?

It's like Isaac Newtons "Unionized" versus "Un-ionized" test, only for gamers.

Even funnier Judges decision over Tucker Max

[nettdata]

This is pretty funny, but I've recently seen an even funnier judge's decision from a Federal court.

I hang out on another web site a bit (Tucker Max) and he was sued by a guy that was being made fun of in a few of the threads.

The guy's lawyer was BEYOND a hack, and the judge's verdict from the site made me laugh out loud.

Thread is here: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t =9316&page=1&pp=10

I'm no lawyer by any means, but I can tell that the judge had FUN belittling the guy. And, he actually had sentences using phrases with "fisted by a gorilla" and "jerkoff".

More importantly, this was a pretty serious precedent that was set, in that the operator of the board was not held to be responsible for the comments made by the members.

It's definitely worth a read if you have 10 or 15 minutes.

Re:Nothing at stake...

[ari_j]

Nah, I caught the sarcasm. I just know that, if nobody explains that nothing is at stake, 150,000 Slashdotters won't get it because they will read just the blurb and think not only that "precident" is the correct spelling but also that a $6 billion lawsuit is being decided on a rock-paper-scissors contest. Looking through other comments about the brokenness of the American legal system is rather telling.

Re:Actually, its mostly because the issue is trivi

[rtyall]

The Judge could've been feeling particularly spiteful and forced them to "Roshambo" for it.

Not to be a complete prick, but...

[Elemenope]

It would be "Rochambeau", and while Wikipedia offers your alternative as legitimate, this is one of those cases where I believe Wikipedia has been overtaken by rude, uncultured philistines bent on destroying all meaningful cultural reference and offering bland Americanized bastardizations in the place of perfectly good imported words.

And just for the mods, who occasionally can't figure this part out, 'I'm Kidding!(tm)'.

Not all that uncommon -- Nevada draws cards!

[stupidnickname]

Yes, the point that the judge was trying to make was a public shaming of the two lawyers. The choice of the game, and the recommendation of the front steps of the courthouse is proof of that.

BUT . . . this type of stuff isn't entirely unheard of, and is even written into law in some locales:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Nov-05 -Fri-2004/news/25182185.html

Ray Urrizaga turned over the queen of clubs. Bob Swetich said "whoa," and flipped up the seven of diamonds. The two men shook hands.

And with that, a choice that split White Pine County voters right down the middle was settled Thursday by two men in blue jeans and a $1.99 deck of Streamline playing cards, bought the day before at Ely's V & S Variety store.

Urrizaga and Swetich have lived in the county for most of their lives, and each man received exactly 1,847 votes on Election Day. By drawing the high card, Urrizaga broke the tie and won a four-year term on the County Commission.

Not at all

[achurch]

By telling them straight out, he'd have given them a chance to argue back, and he might have ended up embroiled in their childish arguments as well. Instead, he's told them to go make fools of themselves in front of everybody, and not even show up again until they've decided to start making sense--thus cleverly robbing them of any chance to talk back. I think it's perfect, and I wish I could be there to see it.

In case of tie...

[dR.fuZZo]

there's no mention of what the two lawyers are supposed to do in case of a tie ...

File an appeal?

The judge should have sent them to... THUNDERDOME!

[Samurai Cat!]

Two lawyers enter!

One lawyer leaves!

MASTER BLASTER RULES BARTERTOWN!!!

*cough*

Ties

[anno1602]

For those not familiar with Rock,Paper,Scissors or as we called it when I was a kid in Hawaii "Junk ina Po", there are no ties. Rock loses to paper and beats scissors, paper loses to scissors (of course) and finally scissors loses to rock.

Who wins when both parties choose the same hand?

The lawyers should pay all court costs for...

[Slashdot Junky]

The lawyers should pay all court costs associated with judge's order if there are any.

Later,
-Slashdot Junky