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Wii-mote In Action
Jack Lancer writes "Gameworld Network (which is either a network of gameworlds or a gameworld of networks) has
posted an epic collection of streaming E3 videos which clearly depicts each and every playable Wii game and how exactly one has to swing, wave, shake, point, wiggle and/or jostle the Wiimote in order to play." And once again this poses the question — is this the future of gaming UI? Sure seems like a great idea for a FPS.
I'm SOLD. I want this console! I want this console! I want this console! Check out the video for Red Steel. Finally a console where playing an FPS isn't stupid! Please excuse me, I have to go clean myself off.
posted an epic collection of streaming E3 videos
And someone jealous decided to destroy it all by posting it to slashdot. Bye bye bandwidth!
--
Krazy Kat and Ignatz Mouse
Write boring code, not shiny code!
First it was Bluetooth headsets that made it tough to decide if the person coming up behind you was on the phone or a schizophrenic. Now I'll be wondering if the kids on the underground are gamers or epileptics.
I expect the Wii to be a huge success, but even if it isn't, at least Nintendo is introducing some change into the stalling industry. Combine with the Virtual Console for an easy delivery system for Indie developers, and you have an interesting setup that separates itself from other gaming systems.
To make Jack Thompson happy, someone should make a fighting game where you hold the wii-mote and physically smack the other person. "Ah ha, see, video games do cause real-world violence". That's what I call force feedback!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Nintendo have done well this round.
They put together something different, marketed it well, kept up interest, got developers interested, got public interested, created news news news...
There overall plan is very well thought out with lots of subtle nooks and crannies. I really hope it all works out and people buy these things in droves. This kind of think deserves results.
I'm buying three at or near launch. (one for me, me bro and me mam) And at least 6 to 8 games between the homes.
Pablo
I think having to flick the mouse around is more than enough physical exertion for the average FPS gamer. What makes you think they'll take to this?
Does that mean I'm getting old? Now that I think about it, it sounds like my dad, who rocked the joystick back when we had an Atari XE, didn't really get newer controllers until he was actually playing a game (and usually got confused by the multiple things to control).
But yeah, wiggling and shaking demonstrates how it works, but given the fine control w/ the "Wii-mote," I still think it'll be until people have it in their hand that they really get it. Didn't people at E3 say that people started out gesticulating wildly, and then calmed down when it "clicked"? Luckily it seems like a very easy thing to pick up.
I've been seeing the DS/DS Lite make inroads with people I work with - especially when they see me playing "Brain Age" or "Big Brain Academy" - I had my DS Lite passed around the office for about an hour as people tried out the test from the latter game. At least one or two people - in their 40's, never played games before, but now are seriously thinking about picking up a DS for their kids and maybe the Brain Age for themselves.
So I wonder if Nintendo's "Blue Ocean" approach will work with the Wii. Iwata, as I understand it, has mentioned that he'd like for people to play the Wii every day - much like my wife and I play the DS (she digs the Brain Games and "Magnetica" - this from a women that for the last 12 years wouldn't touch a computer game unless it had the words "Tetris" or "Solitaire" on it).
Which is all they need - my wife plays Brain Age a little bit every day. I'm wondering if Nintendo can't leverage the Wii sports games with "Work out every day for 30 minutes - helps get you in shape!" Tie in some workouts, perhaps like the Brain Age games put in the competitive aspects (which has helped each of us play the DS every day to try and one-up each other - so far, I'm at a B+ in Academy.
Obviously we'll have to wait and see, but the other day a coworker asked me "Hey, that Nintendo thing coming out - that's the competor for the Xbox, isn't it?" I'm not sure which was more telling: that he knew that there was a Nintendo thing coming out - or that he thought that was the Xbox competitor, not the new Playstation.
Well, just another 4-5 months to go.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I can't wait for this system. Games are boring the hell out of me lately with the same thing churned out over and over again. If the E3 videos are any indication of how fun and new the Wii games are, it's going to be awesome. I'm looking forward to some sword fighting in Red Steel, Wii Sports for Tennis and Golf, the new Metriod and of course.. Smash Bros Brawl (even if it doesn't use the Wiimote like the other games, they did exactly what they needed to do to Smash Bros -- smooth out the gameplay, give it Internet capabilities and that's it.) This'll be the first system I'll buy on day 1 since my SNES.
Well, basically because a WiiMote wouldn't work on my PS2
Maybe the submitter also submitted this to nintendowiifanboy.com, but if not he just lifted the summary and made no reference to the source.
g e-of-every-wii-game-at-e3/
http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2006/06/20/foota
I was lucky enough to get to try it out on Metroid Prime in NY on a modified GC, and I can honestly say the control is great. All the FPS fans who were bagging on the Wii in favor of their favorite console Sony or MS will be in for a real surprise.
I will say however, at E3, that there were no real standout games or "must haves" from what I have seen and played so far. Excitetruck is fun, but nothing new, and Mario Galaxy controls like a dream but is a bit too gimmicky. Red Steel is an ABSOLUTE DUD. Don't buy into the hype, it is pure crap. Zelda is a mess to control, the aiming and controls seriously need tweaked and made to be a shitload more forgiving especially aiming the bow and arrow. Wii Sports and Hudson's flying game are the two main games so far that have me interested.
These are just my opinions and based on unfinished and beta games/hardware. So are everyone elses, take them for what they are and realize that I'm being as fair and honest as possible.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
I'm not sure why using a standard controller would be more immersive, it's an extremely abstract control device.
Personally, if Nintendo can pull off with the Wii what they have with the DS, then they are going to make a fortune. The DS has plenty of weird and 'different' games (Trauma Center, Kirby etc) as well as plenty of traditional games (Mario 64, advance wars, tony hawks) and non-gamer games (Brain training, Animal crossing).
Can you imagine the kind of movement you have to do for the Hot Coffee mod on this console?
And the speaker in the wiimote could make some noises as well. Squishy wet noises of... um... hot coffee, yeah!
I really have to give Nintendo a lot of credit for going out on a limb and trying something new. When you think about it, game controllers haven't changed much in the last 20 years. You have a controller with a joystick or direction pad and a couple of buttons. Making the joystick analog instead of directional is an evolutionary change, as is having more and more buttons. The rest is just ergonomics - making the controller comfortable and sleek rather than a thumb-killer. Folks have been able to dress up controllers to look really cool, but they are essentially unchanged from the days of Atari and the NES.
This, on the other hand, is like a whole 'nother branch on the evolutionary tree. I hope that it gains some real traction and gets game developers thinking in unconventional ways. The samples from E3 indicate that they have already begun to do so. And, if imitation is the best form of flattery, it appears that sony is paying attention, too.
I see your point and a year ago I would have agreed with you however things have changed in the past year. What has changed? The Nintendo DS is whats changed. I never thought when I first played on one that I would like the trouch screen. To begin with I thought it was stupid, I thought the PSP with its analog stick was the right idea however, having owned both PSP and DS, I soon leant that my PSP was a £180 paper weight and my DS was £90 of fun. I soon sold the PSP, partly because of no decent games but mainly because it was more of the same. Sure I love playing some games over and over (Mario for example) but the PSP took itself too seriously. It didn't have a fun factor. It felt like its WiFi was more for surfing the net than playing games wirelessly.
:)
The DS however is just awesome fun. It has a great mix of old games just ported, old games ported and updated, new games from an old franchise (Mario, etc) and totally new games. The touchscreen doesn't work for all games however Nintendo never said it would, thats why it also has the D-Pad.
I will be picking up a DSLite on Friday as well because I find the DS a bit too big.
I think the Wii will be pretty popular. I doubt it will overtake PS3 or Xbox 360 however I am sure it will be a big hit. I will be buying one around the time it is launched as it looks great and sounds like it won't cost an arm and a leg.
PS I have a 360 and regret buying it. It is a nice console but I spent around £500 on it and it isn't worth it IMHO for the games it has. I wish I had waited and just got the Wii. I will sell the 360 over the summer most likely.
PPS My favourite games on the DS are... Advance Wars Dual Strike, Mario & Luigi Partners in Time, Mario Kart and Tetris DS. A nice balance of 4 very different game types
There's always the classic controller and if all else fails, I remember reading that there will be inputs for gamecube controllers on the side somewhere. So don't give up on the Wii yet!
http://www.digifuzz.net
The mouse and keyboard is perfection but it would be cool if there was an alternative even for a more emmersive factor.
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I posted this awhile back on digg on the topic:
What I'd like to hear is just exactly how the wii controller works with a fps.
We all know the venerable mouse/keyboard combo is the superior method for most, with consoles lacking in the precision using a dual analog method.
I'm trying to picture exactly how a fps would work with I assume would be the nunchuck mode.
So the addon part of the controller would replace the wasd, but how would the actual aiming work.
Because what's perfect with the mouse is, you can position it slowly for accurate aiming, or whip it around to do a quick 180'. Now the thing is when one does this quick movement of the mouse, you have to lift the mouse to recenter it, how would that work when translated to the wii?
In one scenario I can picture the motion sensing tracking where your aiming and the onscreen gun actually remains center like a traditional fps and just your view changes.
This works fine when facing one direction, but say you want to quickly turn around? Wouldn't one end up not facing the screen if they simulate a turning around motion? Because the problem is, how do you simulate the lifting of the mouse to recenter?
Or they could make it that the onscreen gun is 'free floating' and can aim at the edge of the screen, and you could use the analog stick to actually change orientation or by aiming at the far edge of the screen, your view rotates. But I could see that being a fixed speed, kind of like rotating in descent.
So even though this controller looks really cool, and might add some truely new styles of gameplay, I'm curious how the nunchuk fairs with a fps. I think it's obvious that it's going to be superior to console's dual analog history of controlling fps's, but can it match a mouse? Or maybe the added 'submersion' by just playing with the controller would make up for any shortcomings?
And someone directed me to this article:
http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3story.html?sid=61502
A relevant bit:
"Before getting too much further into describing the demo level, we'll talk about how the control scheme is handled in Corruption. The game uses the remote-plus-nunchuk configuration, where you'll want to use the remote in your dominant hand, as that is what handles aiming. Simply point the remote at the screen to aim Samus' arm cannon. The cursor actually moves within the screen, instead of being fixed to the center of the screen as with most first-person shooters. This makes it possible to aim and fire at something you see without moving Samus, but the tradeoff is that your ability to turn quickly is compromised. To turn, you'll need to move the cursor all the way to the edge of the screen, at which point Samus will begin turning. There's definitely a learning curve involved with getting used to how the Wii controller works for aiming, but thankfully you can press on the Z trigger on the nunchuk to lock on to a target, which keeps the interface feeling somewhat consistent with previous Prime games. The lock-on only works if you have an enemy somewhat close to the center of the screen, so it's not exactly a crutch--and lock-on won't work on very fast-moving targets, plus enemies can often break out of target lock by dodging back and forth."
"We did have some trouble here and there when the sensors seemed to have trouble reacquiring the signal whenever we put our hands down--finding that invisible plane where the sensor wants your hands to be can be a little tricky or frustrating if you put your hands down for any reason."
That certainly doesn't sound like a revolutionary way to play a fps, esp if it has a need to give the player a button to lock on to enemies. Sounds like it getting around the same old limitations that console controllers have when playing a fps.
And I haven't seen the vids yet, I'll check them out now, but I don't think the wii will revolutionize the fps.
Then you are a huge sucker.
I'm sorry, its time to burn some karma. Repeat after me: The Wii has not shipped. You barely know anything about it aside from press releases and E3 demos.
Seriously, what happened to waiting until we actually can get our hands on these things before deciding which console to go with? I mean, I'm happy for you and all, with this remarkable rescient clarity for who has 'done well in the round that has yet to happen...' But I, for one, will actually wait to play each console.
I've tried one new console, X360, and I liked it. But I haven't bought anything yet because there are two more in the pipe. Right now I see each of these boxes as having a significant strike against it: The PS3 is going to (probably) cost too much; the X360 relies heavily on Live! for value and has no standard HD; and the Wii can't do HD.
Sorry for the rant, just sick of all these kneejerk reactionary posts. As far as I'm concerned, I don't take Nintendo's amazing eyepopping demos with any less salt than Sony's and Microsoft's amazing eyepopping demos. Give me the games, then we shall see.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I imagine you couldn't play this game without taking frequent breaks (which might be good for RSI but aren't very good for immersion).
Depends on what definition of 'immersion' you're using.
The old idea about immersive gaming is kind of like being in a hot tub -- you ease yourself in, but once you're comfortable you can stay there for hours.
Nintendo's new idea of immersion is like a diving board -- you climb up, leap off, in an instant you're enveloped by the water, and then quickly you're at the side of the pool again, ready to take another dive.
The fact that guys in Iraq do it every day doesn't change the fact that our bodies weren't meant to. They go through a lot of training in order to hold an M16 in front of them all day --- your average gamer doesn't.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Right now I see each of these boxes as having a significant strike against it: The PS3 is going to (probably) cost too much; the X360 relies heavily on Live! for value and has no standard HD; and the Wii can't do HD.
If that's the ONLY strike against the Wii, then why is he a sucker to want to buy it? Perhaps he simply doesn't care about HD. I know that I, personally, will likely not have an HDTV for the next several years... I think most people are also in the same boat, planning to upgrade to HDTV in a few years but not yet.
I personally will not buy the Wii until i've had a chance to play an in-store unit, but as long as it's pretty fun, I'll be getting one. At $250-$300 including Zelda, that's not an outlandish purchase.
But that it makes a lot of non-FPS games really fun to play.
Not every stick you see on the ground is a gun. Some can become swords. Some can become walking sticks, or pitons to use as you climb Mount Everest without the use of your left leg. Some can become claws as you become a crab beneath the waves. Some can become fishing rods, as you wait patiently for the slippery silvery salmon to go by.
The attraction of the Wii is that many things become fun - not just one.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I know slashdot is land of the bad analogy, but are you really trying to relate playing a video game to soldiers in Iraq?
If that's the ONLY strike against the Wii, then why is he a sucker to want to buy it? Perhaps he simply doesn't care about HD. I know that I, personally, will likely not have an HDTV for the next several years...
Similarly, my family isn't planning on getting a Wii or any other home console during this round because each of us now has a Nintendo DS (the wife and I bought one when the Lite came out). We moved from playing multiplayer Mariokart on the TV where we each had our own section of the screen to playing multiplayer Mariokart where we all have our own handheld console.
I understand we're not getting the near photorealistic graphics that a modern console or good PC could deliver, nor the game depth that a disk- (vs. cartridge-) based game sometimes delivers. However, the DS delivers everything that our family DOES want out of a console, and is portable to boot. Once the web browser is released it'll have even more portable utility.
Some of you already have those cute little shirts on that say disco sucks, right? That's not all that sucks.-Frank Zappa
Now there is an *excellent* point. After all, the standard Nintendo creed is, Its Not About The Graphics, Its The Gameplay... right?
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Dude, if you would read the next line of Pablo's post, you would realize that he's saying Nintendo has done well in the areas of development and marketing both to developers and to consumers. While I agree that this doesn't neccesarily mean that the Wii will be a good system, I myself plan to get a Wii on launch day, a few extra controllers, and some games. I've played every major (and some minor) game consoles since the NES, and I've always prefered Nintendo. I got the CameCube the Christmas it came out, and although my dad got a PS2 and Xbox for free shortly thereafter, I've been most satisfied with the Gamecube. So I'm willing to take the risk that Wii won't be that good, because the risk is slim. I see no reason to pay $600 (plus games & accessories) to play upgraded versions of the PS2 games that were more of the same even in the previous generation. Worse yet, $400 (plus yadda yadda) so I can play the crummy game that PDZ is (tried it at a friend's, hated it), or to get the opportunity to download zuma, which I can find online. And if it turns out that the Wii's new control scheme isn't as fun as I had hoped, there's still a good number of old games I missed out on availble on VC.
Your technical details about lightguns are a little bit out of date.
The type you described, which has a single-direction lens and a light level or color sensor, that's pretty much the oldest type. It's what was used for the NES, and also for older systems - I had a portable Pong rig that included a lightgun game that worked that way. These types required the screen to flash (or else just have all targets be really high-contrast) in order for the lightgun to get a reading. You can see this effect in games like Duck Hunt.
Then you have the raster scan method. I believe this is what's used on most current console lightguns. Basically it finds out when precisely the TV's raster crosses the point the gun is aimed at, and compares that to the video signal output by the game console to figure out where the gun is pointed. The downside of this method is that it won't work on certain types of TVs, it's mainly a CRT thing. Plus you need to get the video sync signal from the console - on PS2 light guns they do this with an external connector on the lightgun cord, I believe, while on the X-Box a video timing signal is actually included on the controller port. I believe for the sensor to work the video at the target point on-screen does have to be reasonably bright (that is, not black) but I could be wrong about that.
Then you have IR emitter/sensor lightguns. These are used in current and relatively recent arcade lightgun games like House of the Dead series and so on. Basically they use a combination of emitters and sensors to figure out where the gun is pointed. The gun reports the relative intensity of the signal it receives from each emitter (it can discern which is which through timing) and that gives the machine a good idea where the gun is pointed. Some types also use tilt sensors in the gun itself to get better information. The strength of this system is that it's completely independent of the video monitor. So long as it's properly calibrated you can use it with any video display technology at all. There's a home version of this type of lightgun sold at Lik-Sang, and the technology of the Wii pointer is very similar to this type of lightgun. That is why the Wii remote is so commonly compared to lightguns. When people make that comparison, they're talking about this type of lightgun. The fact that most lightgun games don't care about the fact that the lightgun is capable of a fairly accurate 3-D position and orientation report is pretty much incidental.
See also, Wikipedia's Entry on Lightguns
(Also, "it's" is "it is". "its" is a posessive pronoun.)
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
The person who has toned arm and leg muscles has the Wii.
The one with the weight problem has the PS3.
I guess the one with the xBox360 is a Borg. Or at least dresses like one.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Thats not what I'm most concerned about...my big concern is how can you have realistic sword fights when there is nothing to forcibly stop the controller from moving past a certain point if your character makes contact in the game.
I especially see this as a problem for multiplayer swordfighting (think a multiplayer Star Wars game) where two people might be waving their swords, but if they cross blades, the controller keeps moving past the contact point, thus screwing up the positioning of the players hands with the remote.
Not really. It's fairly simple. Remember the Wii controller also has a speaker. What you do is have an audio "clang" when your sword hits another, or a "buzz" when your light saber touches another one.
Also, in the game mechanics, once your sword comes in contact with another, you just stop the forward motion of the displayed sword, and use any further forward motion as "push" motion against the opponent sword, used to simulate strength.
Now, it might take a bit of getting used to, especially if you had a true swords and sorcery game, where someone might be wearing heavy armor - in that a blow straight against someone with plate mail won't penetrate, but will glance off, but it's a fairly simple programming exercise to translate any motion after armor hit or after sword hit into the appropriate vector. The main thing is to use both audio feedback - both Wii controller and speakers - and force feedback (vibration on controllers if applicable) to indicate what's really happening. Most players will quickly adapt.
On the other hand, if you stick to fighting gelatinous blobs, your sword will literally chop straight through them. And a light saber - unless it meets a force field or another light saber (also force field) - will also keep going through the body it chops into. But there should be some audio and other feedback to represent the energy drain.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
if your TV is so cheaply built that a 3 ounce plastic remote can go through the front glass then you either need to stopping for AV equipment from the back of vans in parking lots or have someone go with you to buy your gear to keep you from buying things made from tinfoil and thin plastic.
My Panasonic 48" Plasma can take a 6 ounce remote being thrown HARD at the screen without damage.
Having a friend over that drank way too much at the Superbowl party was that way to discover that one.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
"I can't see a controller 'selling' a console."
Funny, I'm planning to buy a Wii primarily for the controller -- because it will be the only game controller on the market that my non-gaming family and friends can grok easily.
The choices are as follows:
1. Buy an XBox or a PS2/PS3, and have it played by myself and my son.
2. Buy a Wii, and have it played by myself, my son, my wife, my parents, my in-laws, friends, visitors...
Call me crazy, but I think making gaming more accessible to everyone is a good thing -- and having a family that games together is doubleplusgood for this geek. If it takes a radical new controller to do the job, then so be it.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
An abstract control device does nothing to focus you on the game, because it is an abstract. That means that for every action you wish to perform in game, you have an abstract layer it has to pass through before you get the result you want. A direct control device lacks that abstract layer, and therefore requires one less neural pathway to perform. It's the difference between thinking, "I want to attack, so I press A," and thinking, "I want to attack, so I attack." That's a matter of biology.
Not that that means the Wiimote will be any different, mind you. It is still very much an abstract device, just as a mouse and keyboard are. However, in some cases (Wii Sports being the showcase) it is a very direct device. You don't have to think about both what you want to do, and what you need to accomplish to do it, you just think about what you want to do. Abstract control cannot possibly be more immersive than direct control.
And believe me, there is a very, very steep learning curve to using a standard controller. Going from an FPS to a Platformer, it takes the average person from several minutes to a half hour to completely switch gears between two very different control schemes.
just some guy