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Jakob Nielsen on Design, RSS, Email, and Blogs

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Jakob Nielsen took some time to chat with the Wall Street Journal's Lee Gomes about RSS, email newsletters, web design and blogs. When asked whether blogs must maintain a 'conversation' with readers, Nielsen says, 'That will work only for the people who are most fanatic, who are engaged so much that they will go and check out these blogs all the time. There are definitely some people who do that -- they are a small fraction. A much larger part of the population is not into that so much. The Internet is not that important to them. It's a support tool for them. Bloggers tend to be all one extreme edge. It's really dangerous to design for a technical elite. We have to design for a broad majority of users.'"

161 comments

  1. Lee Gomes by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1, Funny

    That wouldn't be Lee... "Underpants" Gnomes, would it?

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    <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    1. Re:Lee Gomes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow that's... not very funny.

    2. Re:Lee Gomes by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair, it is only a 2. I imagine it'll get modded up to 5 Funny, and back down to 1, Overrated, so my karma burn should be appropriate punishment.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
  2. Email newsletters better than feeds? by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nielsen says in this article that he prefers email newsletters to news feeds because "the email newsletter comes to you; it arrives in your in box, and becomes part of the one place you go to get information. That's the great strength." This is an interesting idea, but I don't think he realizes that it doesn't scale. Sure, a couple newsletters would work fine, but a few years back, I was subscribed to so many newsletters that I started filtering them into folders and essentially treating them just like feeds.

    What I prefer to newsletters is user-requested content, where you can say "Send me an email when you write a new blog post/article/whatever about $SUBJECT". I'm not usually interested in everything a site has to offer, but if they're willing to pick out the things I would be interested in, I'm much more likely to want to see it.

    1. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use FeedDemon with Watches to do just that. I don't want to read everything someone posts to a blog but with a watch setup in FeedDemon I see the feeds which contain things that interest me. I would love to see more sites offering search based feed results so that I can subscribe to 100 feeds and only see the posts about subject X. There are services that do this now but not as well as a FeedDemon watch.

      btw I have been using FeedDemon since before it was released and love it. I use it every day both at home and work and nothing is better on Windows for RSS.

    2. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by Billosaur · · Score: 3, Informative

      What I prefer to newsletters is user-requested content, where you can say "Send me an email when you write a new blog post/article/whatever about $SUBJECT". I'm not usually interested in everything a site has to offer, but if they're willing to pick out the things I would be interested in, I'm much more likely to want to see it

      I agree. I'm not a big fan of blogs, but there are occasionally ones that contain useful information and come across with some thought-provoking ideas. I like this idea of the customizeable email alert; I get these already from my bank and credit card company, and from CNN, why not a blog? When you think about it, it's similar to doing a search on a topic and following the links, except that instead of getting a lot of irrelevant crap, you get a more focused set of data. THe only caveat would be to make sure that if it's keyword based, there's some kind of threshhold that says, "alert me is $SUBJECT comes up, but only if it's talked about at length." Someone might mention a keyword once in a blog, but that shouldn't be good enough to trigger an alert -- it should only get sent out if there's enough about that subject to make it worth reading.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    3. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by Bogtha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nielsen says in this article that he prefers email newsletters to news feeds because "the email newsletter comes to you; it arrives in your in box, and becomes part of the one place you go to get information. That's the great strength." This is an interesting idea, but I don't think he realizes that it doesn't scale. Sure, a couple newsletters would work fine, but a few years back, I was subscribed to so many newsletters that I started filtering them into folders and essentially treating them just like feeds.

      I was in exactly the same situation. My inbox stopped being about communicating with people and became a time-sink for keeping up to date with various things. So I went through a phase of unsubscribing from every mailing list, and once unsubscribed, I'd try and replace the information with an RSS feed. If I couldn't find one, I'd email them, tell them why I unsubscribed, and ask for a feed. Sometimes I was pleasantly surprised to find that they had one squirrelled away and not linked to on their site.

      It sounds like I'm just shifting the burden elsewhere, or "hiding the mess", but it's amazing how much quicker things flow when you don't open your mail client in the morning to find dozens of things you need to sort through. And no, mail filters don't do the job for various reasons. As much as I hate to sound like a self-help book, it changes from your information controlling you to you controlling when and how you get that information.

      I believe people interact with periodical articles in a fundamentally different way to normal email, and that email newsletters lead people into trying to handle both of them in the same way, resulting in chaos. Email newsletters might be the most effective way to reach your audience, as Nielsen says, but that doesn't mean that email newsletters are the most effective way for your audience to be notified of your articles. So leave your audience members who don't know any better reading your email newsletter, but make sure you give people the option of an Atom feed.

      By coincidence, Nielsen's was one of the newsletters I unsubscribed from. He didn't provide a feed, and when I emailed him to ask if he had one, I was told that he'd get back to me because he was on holiday. He never did, so he has one less reader now.

      I can accept that he believes that email newsletters are better than feeds, but I think it's uncharacteristic of him to not even allow the possibility of handling his Alertbox column in the way that fits into his readers' workflows best. It's not as if offering the option will harm usability for the people who don't want or understand Atom feeds.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    4. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by kzinti · · Score: 1

      "...the email newsletter comes to you; it arrives in your in box, and becomes part of the one place you go to get information."

      And the one place you go to to get spam.

    5. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Some RSS readers let you filter individual feeds by tags or keywords, so you only see the posts that interest you. Personally I use Blogbridge, which claims this as a feature. I've never used the feature, since I've kept my subscriptions down to the level where scanning the post titles works for me, but it does look useful if you want to subscribe to absolutely everything that might ever post something of interest.

    6. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by Eric+Giguere · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't with the technology (newsletters vs. blogs) but with the way the technology's being used. Newsletter creators learned long ago that it made much more sense to send out tightly-focused newsletters, something that many bloggers have yet to learn. Those bloggers cast too wide a net and turn off some of their readers.

      One way to just get the things that interest you from a less-focused blog is to use category feeds if the blogging software supports it. This relies, of course, on the blogger properly and consistently categorizing his or her posts, but it can definitely narrow things down.

      Eric
      Vote for my blog on MarketingSherpa!
    7. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by DRM_is_Stupid · · Score: 1
      I'm not usually interested in everything a site has to offer, but if they're willing to pick out the things I would be interested in, I'm much more likely to want to see it.
      Filtering is certainly available for web feeds. There's no particular need for a website to only have one feed. BBC News has a separate feed for each news section. At other websites, one can structure a query in a URL to get filtration, etc. Once received, the contents can be further organized by the client's aggregator.
    8. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by kisrael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you're probably looking for "tags" rather than keywords....

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    9. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by reynhout · · Score: 1

      I believe people interact with periodical articles in a fundamentally different way to normal email, and that email newsletters lead people into trying to handle both of them in the same way, resulting in chaos

      I agree. I did a similar input reduction on my inbox a year or two ago. Nielsen received a special exception ticket, but not without some ironic reflection on the lack of usability options he provides to his readers. I understand the argument against too many options, but in this case they are not mutually interfering, so I think he's making a mistake by adhering so strongly to his Viewpoint.

      I ended up forcing alertbox into an RSS feed via feed43.com. The feed should be accessible by anyone: http://feed43.com/3442002452423878.xml

    10. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by MacJedi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As the old saying goes, email newsletters are just a (poor) reimplementation of USENET.

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      2^5
    11. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1
      I don't think he realizes that it doesn't scale

      I don't think Nielsen has been really relevant since the bubble burst. He's on the way to becoming as much of a nuisance as he was a help Back In The Day. Even most of his comments back then weren't really well-reasoned, but more like "this is what *I* want". He just happened to get out there first.
      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    12. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by bedessen · · Score: 1
      I'm not a big fan of blogs, but there are occasionally ones that contain useful information and come across with some thought-provoking ideas. I like this idea of the customizeable email alert; I get these already from my bank and credit card company, and from CNN, why not a blog?
      You can approximate this today with feedrinse.com (which allows you to filter a feed based on search criteria) and rssfwd.com which sends you feeds by email. I think if you combine these creatively you can get an emails for blog updates that match a given criteria.
    13. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by andrewman327 · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. When I got to college, I became hopelessly overrun by e-mail alerts and newsletters and annoucements. I began unsubscribing to them. Now I use the little ticker in GMail for some of my news, and I just visit the websites of these organizations for other information.

      --
      Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
  3. took some time... by SilentGhost · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    hm, 5 minutes? and it got posted on slashdot. even for guru, it's too fast. not to say, that he doesn't say anything interesting, especially for "developers".

  4. What a joke! by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can't believe this guy is a design/usability guru. His web site is easily one of the most garish and unfriendly pages I've ever seen.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:What a joke! by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 2, Insightful
      His web site is easily one of the most garish and unfriendly pages I've ever seen.

      In his defense: while the page is butt-ugly, one of his major points about usability is that usability needs to have priority over design.

      But I do agree with you. It's got that Stallman-esque "I am so pushy about my principles that it's annoying" feel. He's overapplied his own advice, to the point where his web site looks so generic that it has no unifying brand. I don't think he realizes that if every website stuck with a white or light background, dark or black text, blue/purple/red links, and relatively tame fonts, it would be almost impossible for web site owners to create a memorable brand. As he has pointed out, people don't read most of what websites contain, so wowing people with great prose won't help. All we have left is slogans, then? I would point out that my Slashdot T-shirt says "Bathing Geeks in its Soothing Green Light since Nineteen Ninety-Seven", not "Pestering Geeks with its Super-Cool Slogan, "News for Nerds, Stuff that MAtters" since Nineteen Ninety-Seven". People remember sites visually.

    2. Re:What a joke! by klenwell · · Score: 1

      His web site is easily one of the most garish and unfriendly pages I've ever seen.

      I don't know if I'd say his website is garish. Still needs a few banner ads. But his use of 'Dr.' and 'Ph.D' certainly is. Probably got those online -- hence his qualifications as a web expert.

      The page certainly is an eyesore.

      --
      Innovation makes enemies of all those who prospered under the old regime... -- Machiavelli
    3. Re:What a joke! by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1
      You've been modded as a troll, but I completely agree with you. Also, from his "Why This Site Has Almost No Graphics" page:
      My original design used a simple colon to separate the levels, but some users thought that the colons indicated alternative choices on the same level (and not a progressively deeper nesting of options, as intended).
      It seems that he should have considered that different people might view the separator in ways other than he intended. This is a pretty basic tenet--consider all possible ways that people could misinterpret your intentions and try to eliminate these misinterpretations.
      --
      This guy's the limit!
    4. Re:What a joke! by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext, claiming that "gimmicks" like animation impair usability. What he fails to understand is that when properly applied, these very same techniques can aid usability substantially (e.g. Genie effect to tell you where your windows are going).

      An oversimplification of his position, I'm sure, but that's the impression he gives. As you say, it doesn't help that his homepage is an oil spill of inscrutable links, an assault on the senses.

    5. Re:What a joke! by nv5 · · Score: 3, Informative

      you may still not be impressed, but but he does explain his reasoning for the absence of graphics.

    6. Re:What a joke! by Yvan256 · · Score: 0

      >He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext, claiming that "gimmicks" like animation impair usability.

      It's all about context. While I agree with you that the genie effect helps follow minimized/maximized windows, anything that moves [I]while I'm trying to read something[/I] really impair usability.

      That's why I disable plug-ins and can't wait for Apple to add "disable animated GIFs" in the Safari viewing options.

    7. Re:What a joke! by fuzzyfozzie · · Score: 0

      I have Jakob Nielsen and Marie Tahir's book: Homepage Usability--50 Websites Deconstructed. I started reading this book when I first started designing and I can say that Jakob Nielsen has had more influence on my design than anything else.
      Although I agree that his website isn't the greatest it doesn't represent what kind of guru he is. He has had a major impact on web design. Big companies like eBay have hired him to consult with their designers. In his book he goes through About, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Boeing, Disney, and Yahoo. I'm not saying everything he says is absolutely correct but much of it is. He is been in this business for years and definately knows what he is talking about.
      Just because his website may look like crap, that doesn't lessen his opinion at all. He has changed the face of modern usability in web-sites and for this, he deserves respect.

    8. Re:What a joke! by ribuck · · Score: 4, Funny
      Yeah. He didn't even bother to select a font size for the body text; he just left it at the browser default.

      There are no animated graphics, and he missed the opportunity to provide an interactive Flash marketing experience.

      And black text is just, like, so readable.

    9. Re:What a joke! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nielson doesn't understand the concept of emotional response evocation and expression via means other than the written word. I've always said that what Nielson thinks is proper design is fine - for Nielson. So let's just move along, nothing to see here...

    10. Re:What a joke! by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's probably a free Safari plugin to help out with that. SafariStand, maybe?

      You know, I have trouble understanding how people separate "design" and "usability." Aren't these concepts inherently linked? Take a bare list of links like Nielsen's page. It isn't usable, it isn't functional, because it's user-hostile, a huge turnoff to anyone who wants to read it. Even worse if you're just browsing through. Design and functionality aren't in opposition; nor, even more clearly, are design and usability.

    11. Re:What a joke! by downwithpeople · · Score: 1

      wow. i completely agree - that is one fugly site.

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      [error processing directive.]
    12. Re:What a joke! by great+throwdini · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext, claiming that "gimmicks" like animation impair usability. What he fails to understand is that when properly applied, these very same techniques can aid usability substantially ...

      An oversimplification of his position, I'm sure ...

      Your second thought is the correct one: your opening statements are a gross oversimplification of Nielsen's position.

      I've read more than my fair share of his writings -- and disagree with Nielsen on any number of points -- but he isn't opposed to paratextual content in the least. He is, as you sense, quite opposed unthinking graphic and interactive design, though.

    13. Re:What a joke! by aevans · · Score: 0

      If you'd notice, at the top of his garish, unreadable page is "Email Newsletters: Surviving Inbox Congestion" He is a consultant for spammers, basically. Okay, not the lowest level of spammers, but the next level up, which put in the fine print on their product registration (X will not share your information with anyone outside of X, it's subsidiaries, or partners. X may change it privacy policies at any time, but our current iteration of privacy policies promises post changes in an undisclosed location until this part of our policy changes.) Which brings me to my own pet peeve. Why can't I get a spell checker spam filter? If you have more than 100% of words in a letter that fail a spell check, junk it.

    14. Re:What a joke! by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thanks for the correction. I should know better than that. :-P

      What annoys me about Nielsen is that he preaches usability, yet his homepage is practically unusable unless you think the same way he thinks. If you're a more visually oriented person than Nielsen seems to be, or you're less of a linear learner--basically, if you approach his homepage in any way he wouldn't--then it's going to be a total nightmare to navigate. His vision of "usability" works well for him, it seems, but Nielsen isn't the world.

    15. Re:What a joke! by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      Upon further reflection, I guess what I meant to say was "thanks for the correction, but I won't let that stop me from being serially annoyed by Jakob Nielsen."

    16. Re:What a joke! by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext

      Do you have a cite for anything even approaching this? I find Nielsen to be one of those people who is widely vilified for things he hasn't said and doesn't agree with. Having read plenty of Nielsen in the past, I strongly suspect you are completely misrepresenting him.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    17. Re:What a joke! by DrVomact · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I couldn't disagree more with the original poster--I think it's an absolutely great web site. The layout is clean, simple and instantly comprehensible. The purpose of this page is to direct you to information about web design...so it gives links to articles and conferences. What else could you want? A bunch of animated screenshots of web pages that dance in circles around the text? --In fact, that's what popped into my head when the original poster mentioned "garish"!

      As for your (parent) comment, I think that following conventions such as using dark type on a light background, blue underlined links and legible type is not a bad thing. In fact, it's a very good thing for web pages to follow conventions. A good user interface is always a consistent interface. This principle is what made the Macintosh such a success--nearly every program that ran on the Mac had a similar menu structure, the buttons looked alike and did what you expected, and so on. (I speak in the past tense because I haven't used a Mac in years.) I hate programs that use a glitzy unique interface just to be different; you would say they are establishing "brand" identity or something--I say that they are annoying the crap out of me by having to learn a new interface just for their stupid program. (This happens a lot in games.) In this case, doing things differently doesn't make the software cool--it makes the program look amateurish.

      Now, I understand that the web isn't an operating system, or a set of related application programs. Web pages serve many different purposes, and what works for one page doesn't necessarily work for another. But I have seen many more examples of web pages that defeat themselves with their unique graphics or typographical layout than I've seen examples of successful web pages that depart radically from convention. The same general rules do apply to most web pages as apply to any user interface--make me feel at home, make it clear where I'm supposed to click to do what, let me recognize a link when I see one. The first rule about breaking rules is, "Have a good reason". Break the rules only when it makes your page more effective--don't break them just to be "different".

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    18. Re:What a joke! by lhorn · · Score: 1

      Well, I find it very readable, easy to skim thru, and informative.
      Usually I turn off web page specified colors, fonts and sizes, disable flash and javascript, all plugins, animated gifs and external links.
      This forces me to wade thru HTML source if I really want the information on some sites, but I can use Internet Explorer without reinstalling daily, and are not bothered by jumping, distracting ads.
      Thus I see The Internet as a wast, calm pool of information, and useit.com is a pearl.

      --
      accept no limits but time
    19. Re:What a joke! by DarkSarin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would be fine, except that try using his sight with a screen reader: it would suck!

      He has far too many links of the main page.

      In addition, I see the following as problems:
      Easy to get lost below the fold (no indicators of what each column means;
      lack of organization of links (no indicators of organization);
      lack of information explaining page;
      lack of actual content.

      Not all of these may be agreed on by those who visit, but I think you get the point: it's not a very usable site.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    20. Re:What a joke! by Sparr0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't be the only one who does the majority of my surfing with stylesheets turned off. On well designed sites it works amazingly well. I get the content and just the content in a nice linear format that is easy to read. Lite mode used to be nice here, but since the redesign it has gotten a lot worse, so I am doing my /.ing with no stylesheets now too.

    21. Re:What a joke! by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      The purpose of this page is to direct you to information about web design...so it gives links to articles and conferences. What else could you want? A bunch of animated screenshots of web pages that dance in circles around the text? --In fact, that's what popped into my head when the original poster mentioned "garish"!

      There's a common misconception that it's not possible to have good visual design and usability, or that "visual design" has to mean flashing dancing animations. It's a misconception that Jakob Nielson has been at least indirectly complicit in promulgating. And it's very definitely a misconception. A few well-known designers took a stab at making one of Nielsen's Alertbox columns more attractive, and I think they proved that it certainly can be done without compromising usability in the slightest.

      The same guys have also done a couple other demonstrations of how high-profile sites could be redone a bit more attractively.

    22. Re:What a joke! by SweetP · · Score: 1
      An oversimplification of his position, I'm sure, but that's the impression he gives. As you say, it doesn't help that his homepage is an oil spill of inscrutable links, an assault on the senses.
      Yeah, Nielsen's homepage does seem overwhelming. In fact, I think that Steve Krug's website is much more usable than Jakob Nielsen's (although it does have an advantage by having much less content).
    23. Re:What a joke! by Oxyrubber · · Score: 1
      I am not really impressed with his reasons. This page is more of an excuse not to put any effort into making the page appealing (through graphics or design elements).
      Quotes from Jakob Nielson's "Why No Graphics" page:

      Download times rule the Web.
      They did when I was downloading 100kB+ images on my 14.4 modem back in '98 (I never went 28.8 or 56). Dial-up users today are used to waiting for massive DHTML pages that include flash and other media (even though I admit, they should be able to disable downloading of rich media if they want).

      ... most users have access speeds on the order of 28.8 kbps ...
      Maybe a few years ago. I don't know ANYONE who still uses dial-up (although that probably says more about me than "most users"). I would argue that over 50% of households that have internet access use a broadband connection (I have heard figures of 70-80%, bit I am skeptical).

      Users do not keep their attention on the page if downloading exceeds 10 seconds
      Users keep their attention if they know/think there will be useful/relevant/desirable content on the page. No one expects a large, high-resolution image to take 1 second to download.

      While I do agree that sub-second response times are impressive, I would argue that a minimal amount of CSS touch-up would improve the appeal to his site. Also, users don't come to a site for the response time, they come for the content. Page design that optimizes layout rendering helps to make the page appear to load much quicker (when you wait for optional images to load after text content is already loaded).

      On another note, I rather like Nielson's favicon: a yellow background with a dark red "u" in the foreground. From a design standpoint, it's bold and is rather elegant. Too bad the website looks nothing like it.

      On another positive note, it looks as though his page would be extremely accessible from my Sidekick's browser.

      --
      "If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates." - Jay Leno
    24. Re:What a joke! by miller60 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Jakob Nielsen was once an important voice on usability issues, but that's only true today if you use Lynx or some other text browser. He recently tried to apply his expertise to the topic of "banner blindness" (the tendency of Web users to ignore ad banners) and how it was also undermining contextual ads like Google's AdWords. A lot of bloggers and site owners were concerned about this, given Nielsen's reputation and his use of EyeTracker (a really cool tool) for the research. It turns out his work on "text box blindness" tested pages designed with poorly positioned text ads that were so lame they failed to even follow Google's own heatmap for optimizing ads. Note that the ad in Nielsen's test page is in the least effective spot on the Google heatmap. All he proved was that people who don't pay any attention to ad placement won't get any clicks. Good thing Jakob's not relying on AdSense for his income.

    25. Re:What a joke! by Dekortage · · Score: 1

      I can't believe this guy is a design/usability guru.

      You need to understand that he is a usability guru primarily for software engineers. Graphic designers and artists and architects have been directing people's attention this way or that for a long time (e.g. centuries) before HTML. However, with the advent of web and software design, individuals with no experience in designing composition or spatial flow were suddenly making stuff that desperately needed these things. And people like Nielsen have done a good job of trying to train these folks in fundamental usability issues.

      However, he totally misses the mark on so many issues that it's almost painful. He has virtually no respect for the power of negative space (e.g. empty space) in a layout; he says it is wasted space that should be filled with utility. He doesn't understand the value of artistic style in reinforcing a brand or the user's experience. He thinks form follows function; most long-time designers (such as myself) think form is function... just not the kind of function Nielsen is talking about.

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    26. Re:What a joke! by cosmicj · · Score: 1

      He's "booksmart" and some of the stuff he spews makes some sense, but I don't think he's always in touch with the actual reality of usability...

      Sure he's got a PhD but you know what that means... (as my old boss used to say:)

      BS = bull**it
      MS = More **it
      PhD= Piled Hip Deep

    27. Re:What a joke! by DrVomact · · Score: 0

      I took a look at the first link (took a stab)...I am still seeing green after-images from the orange bars down both sides of the text. Having the bars jiggle around as my eyes move to read was not particularly amusing, either. Nine point text is just fine? What idiots. I'm 58 and my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be...and that type looks just plain microscopic on my 1200 x 1600 21" LCD. Of course, when I kick up the type size by hitting CTRL + in Firefox, their oh-so-pretty layout looks like crapola. Sorry, not impressed.

      I do have to agree that Nielson's writing is awful.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    28. Re:What a joke! by aethogamous · · Score: 1

      It strikes me that designers are like interior decorators, good at making things look pleasing or stylish, but otherwise completely vacuous, while usability engineers like Mr Nielsen are perhaps more like architects or structural engineers, good at making things that do their job, but you would not hire one to choose your furniture. If you want to create something memorable you need both, but if you were having a house built (or a power plant or a shopping complex, since Mr Nielsen clearly has an industrial/commercial focus) and could only hire one or the other, only a fool would go for the interior decorator. (Assuming that it is better to have a shopping complex that looks ugly than one that is structurally unsound). Obviously there are limits to this analogy. Some companies, such as Apple, seem to be good at both (aesthetic) design and usability, while others such as Microsoft don't appear to be particularly good at either (or good at structural engineering for that matter)

    29. Re:What a joke! by Bryansix · · Score: 1
      I can't believe this guy is a design/usability guru.
      I could not agree more. Jakob Nielsen has a few good ideas but for the most part he doesn't get it. He spouts off best practices and other BS but when you look as his website you couldn't find what you were looking for if you had a year and a staff of 200. Plus it's not the lack of "glitz and glamour" that makes his website sucky. It's the font choice, the two column layout where one column extends for miles past the other one creating "white space" and the complete lack of organization that makes sense. His website is a great example of where a person could follow all of his "rules" and still fail miserably in usability testing.

      I am a huge proponent of web site usability and making the interface user friendly. If a user cannot figure it out it is not because they need more training, it is because you designed the interface wrong. However some of the ideas Jakob come up with to meet this goal are just plain stupid. One of those is never opening a link in a new window. Damnit sometimes it makes sense and I wish Slashdot did it automatically when you clicked a link in a comment. I hate losing the article I was one because I forgot to right click the stupid link. Offsite links should open new windows. (Note: I found that article through google site search and not through the website directly as that would have been impossible)

      So if Jakob sucks at this stuff then who do we turn to? Steve Krug wrote a nice book on the subject in a field that is now filled with formula written books. His stands out. It is called Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability (2nd Edition) . His website http://www.sensible.com/ actually does make sense. Slashdot should be posting interviews with Krug instead of Nielsen.
    30. Re:What a joke! by kchrist · · Score: 1
      Offsite links should open new windows.

      I disagree. I'm annoyed when links open new windows unexpectedly.

      Luckily for both of us there's an easy solution: Off-site links should not automatically open new windows. That way we both get a choice. I get links in the same window and, when I want a new window (which is actually fairly often, but it depends on the context), a new window or tab is just a right click away. And the same goes for you.

      Understand why that's better? Without coding for new windows we get the option of doing it either way. When links are told to open windows it takes away that choice.

      And yes, I'm aware of and use the Firefox setting to ignore link targets, but that isn't the point.
    31. Re:What a joke! by Bryansix · · Score: 1

      No that is not better. It sucks because it takes me a lot longer to right click every offsite link instead of just having it open automatically in a new window like it should. Besides if you hold to that behavior (that offsite links open in a new window) and do not apply new windows to anything else then people can tell fairly easily when they are leaving your website. Then they get tired of reading that page, close the tab, and viola your page is still there right where they left it to surf some more.

    32. Re:What a joke! by kchrist · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It sucks because it takes me a lot longer to right click every offsite link

      That's strange, maybe you should check your browser settings. It takes me exactly as long to open links in a new tab with a middle-click (if I'm using my desktop) or a Cmd-click (if I'm using my laptop) as it does to left-click them.

      instead of just having it open automatically in a new window like it should.

      You keep using the word "should". What is this recommendation based on aside from your own opinion? Notice that the vast majority of web developers disagree with you and consider that there may be a good reason for this.

      Besides if you hold to that behavior (that offsite links open in a new window) and do not apply new windows to anything else then people can tell fairly easily when they are leaving your website.

      I usually know if I'm on a different site by the simple fact that the page looks different from the one I was just reading. I can honestly say that in all my years of using the web I have never been confused about whether the link I followed was to a different site or not.

      Then they get tired of reading that page, close the tab, and viola your page is still there right where they left it to surf some more.

      You're assuming people want to continue reading the original site, which is not necessarily true.

      I believe in a) not doing unexpected things to my readers, and b) not messing with their UI by forcing new windows open against their wishes. I also trust that if they want to get back to my site after reading an off-site link they can find their back button or plan for it by opening their choice of a new window or tab.

    33. Re:What a joke! by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      It's an example of how this could be approached, not a finalized complete product. It's meant more to make the point "usable and nice-looking aren't mutually exclusive". And it does. Could it use some changes to its CSS to accomodate text scaling more effectively? Sure, and that'd be fairly easy to do. Does that mean they should just forget about trying to make things usable and pretty? Heck no.

      Also, criticizing the site it's hosted on instead of the actual design they put together is a bit of a cheap shot.

    34. Re:What a joke! by lonecrow · · Score: 1

      Download speed and perceived speed are not the same thing. Here is a fantastic article from a group that does empirical research on these subjects. http://www.uie.com/articles/download_time/ Nielson might want to refer to their site to see how simply, basic, text can be made more appealing then his. I am sure that his layout was designed specifically to get people to argue about it and thus up his profile. Or some such scheme.

    35. Re:What a joke! by NulDevice · · Score: 1

      I tend to consider Nielsen on the draconian edge of the usability debate. He's very "usability over any sort of aesthetics" and he advocates that as loudly as he can. It's pretty annoying in a vacuum... ...of course, he's not really in a vacuum. You've still got folks on the other side who advocate these incredibly complicated, sometimes pretty but usually entirely baffling overdesigned websites. Curt Cloninger used to be the posterboy for that sort of thing, although I don't know if he still is.

      (And let's face it, there are still FAR too many people out there who've been stuck in the 1997 bubble-era philosophies of design. I work with people every day who consider themselves "professional web designers" who haven't updated their html skills since 1998, think flash-based splash screens are a *great* new innovation, and so forth. With armies of people like that developing the web, somebody's gotta speak up, even if it's a bloviating dutchman.)

      As usual, reality is somewhere in the middle, but if you've got one extreme, it's probably good there's another to balance things out. Nielsen's website may be a lot of pro-JN cheerleading, but of course he wants to self-promote - he's not doing this out of altruism, he wants people to hire Nielsen-Norman.

      Me, I like Jeff Zeldman's stuff, especially http://www.alistapart.com/. He can get a lttle preachy and, god help us, nostalgically whiny sometimes, but he manages to make clean, attractive, usable designs most of the time.

      --

      ----
      "I used to listen to Null Device before they sold out."

    36. Re:What a joke! by doom · · Score: 1
      Pink Tinkletini (978889) wrote:
      Indeed. He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext, claiming that "gimmicks" like animation impair usability.
      You're behind the times. He moderated his stance once he was "put on the board" of Macromedia.

      What he fails to understand is that when properly applied, these very same techniques can aid usability substantially Hm... another out of work "web designer", eh?(e.g. Genie effect to tell you where your windows are going)
      I have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect I don't want to know.
  5. Hmm by aftk2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The blurb didn't make much sense to me, so I thought I'd actually *gasp* RTFA...

    His idea about calling RSS feeds "News Feeds" makes sense to me (c'mon Apple, do you really need the blue RSS badge in Safari's bar? I predict this is gone in Safari 2.5/3 - replaced with an aquafied version of the universal newsfeed icon)

    Beyond that and what appeared in the summary, there isn't much to the article. How does one "design" for a blogging audience? I can understand his point that bloggers, while influential on the web, are a vast, technical, vocal minority - but what does that mean in terms of design? What does it also mean that, with regards to MySpace, one of the most popular destinations on the web is also one of its most amazingly poorly designed? I mean, it's slapdash - but it's agile, meaning that they've succeeded by throwing a whole bunch of stuff to the wall, and seeing what sticks.

    --
    concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
    1. Re:Hmm by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      His idea about calling RSS feeds "News Feeds" makes sense to me

      They're called "RSS feeds" because a "news feed" (or more correctly, "newsfeed") is when someone provides you with USENET news. We already have too much overloading of names in technology, let's not do it to ourselves all over again.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Hmm by aoporto · · Score: 1

      I disagree with the idea of pigeonholing RSS as just news feeds. RSS is much more useful, for example as a great way to share collaborative information. One good application of this is ListRing (http://listring.com/). This software lets users syndicate their knowledge in various formats, allowing peers to collaborate with structured data. RSS is the perfect XML format for the simple sharing of data between not just people, but also applications. I believe more and more data intensive implementations of RSS will be forthcoming.

  6. Blogs by dubmun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Blogs will penetrate the masses much more than Mr. Gomes thinks. They are the journals of our age and may not be read on a regular basis by the masses now... but think about future generation being able to go back and read the blogs of the past.

    Journals and diaries have fallen into disuse. Our old blogs and emails are what OUR children will be reading when we die.

    --
    (end of post)
    1. Re:Blogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      but think about future generation being able to go back and read the blogs of the past.

      Or may be not. Do you think we sift through all the diaries/journals from the 50s and 60s ? No. Only if it belongs to specific era (WWII, vietnam ..) may be one goes and looks for those journals from people who are associated with that.

    2. Re:Blogs by moracity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are completely wrong. Most blogs are just the current incarnation of personal websites run by ego-centric, know-it-all, wannabe journalists and cry-babies. Most of them just track back to some other equally lame blog. If you're lucky, you might be able to find the original source...which was probably a major news site.

      Now, there are some legitimate news sites that have moved to a blog format, but that has nothing to do with blogging.

      I consider a majority of blogs to be little more than shameless self-promotion. SPAM, if you will. As more and more people catch on to this, the less relevant they will become and they will join "guestbooks" in the great nothingness. Eventually people will stop updating their blogs because, face it, that's what happens. It's nothing more than a regurgitation of the early "personal" internet. It's a bit prettier and easier to maintain.

    3. Re:Blogs by great+throwdini · · Score: 1

      Blogs will penetrate the masses much more than Mr. Gomes thinks. They are the journals of our age and may not be read on a regular basis by the masses now... but think about future generation being able to go back and read the blogs of the past.

      Journals and diaries have fallen into disuse. Our old blogs and emails are what OUR children will be reading when we die.

      I'm slightly stunned that the above view, absent evidence or reasoned argumentation, would be modded as insightful. It's an intriguing thought, but, to pick apart one underlying assumption in your bold statement, where's the basis for the claim that future generations will even be able to access today's writings on the Web? In what (expurgated) format? How might they be concretely associated with their authors in cases where authorship is uncertain or spoofed? Who will take on the responsibility of migrating content in context?

      Working through similar efforts to preserve digital content such as archive.org or Google Groups leaves one with a sense that voluntary commitment to preservation is still very much hit-or-miss, even when motivated and overseen by a third party. Perhaps this, too, will change in time, but I don't yet see blogs as anything more than ephemeral in nature. I have doubts that even the most dedicated individual efforts to maintain, migrate, and archive contents are doomed to eventual failure -- either through excessive linkrot (which debases context for many blogs) or simple human mortality (is there any guarantee that and individual's writings will persist beyond author death in any meaningful way?).

    4. Re:Blogs by ObligatoryUserName · · Score: 1

      There's a point, I want to say it was identified to me as the 1890's or so, where so many people started writing and keeping their writings that making sense of history became more difficult instead of easier. There's so much modern historical data that it's difficult to pick out signal from noise.

      So, I think you're right that people in the future will like reading old blogs, but it won't be the masses per se. For the great majority of blogs the only people who will find our blogs interesting will literally be our children. "Grandpa used to play some game called World of Warcraft and opposed the Great Middle Eastern War before it even had a name, huh."

      I think it's very cool, but we should keep things in perspective. Just because something is historically meaningful doesn't imply that it's important to the culture at large.

    5. Re:Blogs by dubmun · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify, I'm not talking so much about mainstream blogs with large audiences. I'm talking about smaller more personal blogs setup by people who may be living away from their loved ones for informational or biographical purposes.

      Yes, link degradation is a problem... but I think migration isn't. If you backup your data then you have the meat of your blog in a format that anyone with minor programming experience could reconstruct into meaningful entries.

      Another benefit to this digital data is that it can be indexed and searched with much greater ease than journals and diaries of old making even the most obscure references available. For example, someone in 2040 could be looking for personal opinions of common American/French/Japanese people during the war in Iraq.

      There is value to be found for future generations in our blogs and we have the ability to maintain the most important parts of them. I'm not saying that a better solution won't come along. For now, however, I think blogging serves as an excellent informal history of personal, national, and world events

      --
      (end of post)
    6. Re:Blogs by great+throwdini · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about smaller more personal blogs ... . [L]ink degradation is a problem... but I think migration isn't. If you backup your data ... . [I]t can be indexed and searched with much greater ease than journals and diaries of old ... [W]e have the ability to maintain the most important parts of them. ... I think blogging serves as an excellent informal history of personal, national, and world events.

      Granted, there may be the capability to maintain, index, and query "electronic" journals of the sort you describe. It is necessary, but insufficient, to effect your future claims. Utility and longevity require motivation and discipline, and for the population you're describing -- those churning out informal, egocentric datastores -- can one presume either of these requirements?

      These writings will join the corpus of history should they survive. Until then, they're only fleeting remarks. How many blogs will usefully persist after a decade? I'm not so certain (typical) habits pertaining to long-term "electronic" document retention have improved significantly to date.

    7. Re:Blogs by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Our old blogs and emails are what OUR children will be reading when we die. And they're going to say "OMFG what a bunch of stupid primitives those morons were!"

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    8. Re:Blogs by DrVomact · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Suppose that literacy was universal in all of Europe ever since...oh...the year 500 AD. Suppose further that everyone was compelled by a law or religious tenet to keep a scrupulous and voluminous diary, and that these diaries have been preserved in vast libraries to the present day. How many people do you suppose would wander through those libraries, reading the diaries of people who were not famous or related to them? Darn few, I'd say.

      Now why do you suppose that the massive amounts of prose that's being churned out by today's bloggers will be any more interesting to future generations than our hypothetical diaries? Who is going to care about your opinions or about your latest gadget a thousand years from now? Blogs give their authors a (mostly) unjustified sense of self-importance. I don't bother to read them now because there's just too much crap out there and too little of what's being written is of any importance whatever. I really doubt whether future generations will take notice.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    9. Re:Blogs by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Now why do you suppose that the massive amounts of prose that's being churned out by today's bloggers will be any more interesting to future generations than our hypothetical diaries?

      The sentient machines may want to figure out a bit more about that funny race of squishy things they just nuked into oblivion.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    10. Re:Blogs by Infernal+Device · · Score: 2, Funny

      but think about future generation being able to go back and read the blogs of the past.

      Future generations will soon learn that our generation was composed mostly of airheads, wankers, OMGPonies, and timecubists.

      Our old blogs and emails are what OUR children will be reading when we die.

      No, they'll be reading MySpace entries and bleaching their eyes when they discover that the hot chick flashing her hooters at Mardi Gras was their mom.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    11. Re:Blogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter/blog/ego-centric spam...

  7. Nothing New Here, Move Along by gbulmash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It may be Nielsen talking on a subject that's newer than his seminal book (which is now over 5 years old, an eternity in Web time), but he's just hitting the same old points... broad usability, design for the broadest audience, etc.

    Why should I design for or even think about my grandmother's tastes if I'm doing a coding blog, or a baseball blog (that's assuming Grandma isn't a rabid Ichiro fan)?

    I view Nielsen as someone who has taken a good idea and turned it into ideology. And when you do that, the goodness begins to evaporate.

    Design for two audiences... your users and Googlebot. That's my motto.

    - G

    1. Re:Nothing New Here, Move Along by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Design for two audiences... your users and Googlebot. That's my motto.

      Given that this article was published in the Wall Street Journal, I think Nielsen was (rightfully) assuming that his audience would be people who work on websites used by the general public, not the so-called "technocratic elite". Sure, if it's a coding blog, do what you want. Most of your users will figure it out, and the ones who can't don't matter. But if you're creating a web site for the general public, with wide appeal, you'll want it to be accessible to as many people as possible. If that means offering an email newsletter in addition to a news feed for people without newsreaders, or who prefer email, then so be it--it's not that much extra effort.

    2. Re:Nothing New Here, Move Along by TheViewFromTheGround · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I always tend to find Nielsen to a be a sort of second-rate Tufte. He's usually got a few good points that would seem to be conventional wisdom, but he's actually done or read up on the research, so that's kinda cool. But the Ponderous Voice is incredibly annoying. As is his uncanny ability to fit every design and marketing problem online back into his design philosophy, when it is obvious that the problem domain is significantly different than the one his book addressed. The approach -- always trying to shoehorn every problem into one simplistic framework -- shares a lot with the worst ways of practicing religious faith, but in this case, I'm pretty sure it also stems from a kind of opportunism.

      --
      Online citizen journalism from the inner city: The View From The Ground
    3. Re:Nothing New Here, Move Along by mr.dreadful · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure its fair to compare Nielson to Tufte. Tufte's book are beautiful and his thoughts are deep, but I suspect more people have Tuftes books then have actually read them. IMHO, Tufte is the academic, while Nielson is the practitioner. Nielson (who just published a follow up to his first book) writes for the masses, and bases his comments on actually watching people use websites. Over the years I've watched him change his recommendations based upon on his research, despite his preferences. HTML e-mail is a great example. He hates it, users love it, so he changed his recommendation. He still hates HTML email and freely admits it, but comes clean about what users want. Just to be clear, Nielson does the research. Just surfing through the discussions here shows that not a lot of people get this. The principals of his company are all giants in the useability community. If you ever get the chance to hear him speak, do it. He doesn't potificate from on high, but rather he shares (usually for a price ) what his company has discovered in their hours and hours of ongoing user testing.

    4. Re:Nothing New Here, Move Along by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Why should I design for or even think about my grandmother's tastes if I'm doing a coding blog, or a baseball blog

      If you're doing a coding blog, people want to read about coding. You don't need to worry bout Grandma, because there's little chance Grandma's coding. But the coders aren't there to look at your cute design, they want to read about coding, preferably without going blind. "Click Here" is bad link text on any page, whether for a 12 year old MySpace user or a ninety year old baseball fan.

      But if you're doing a baseball blog, you should design for everybody. Granny is a Cardinals fan. Don't use six point fixed type that breaks Firefox's incredibly useful Ctrl-+. Don't blind me with flashing animated shit that will give a normal person epilepsy.

      Much of useability is common sense - but as Walt Kelly's Pogo once noted, "it ain't so common no more". Black text on a dark gray background? Unless it's a goth site, your page SUXXXXX0rZ and bad.

      Your page design should follow your audience, and with a baseball blog, granny IS the audience.

      I view Nielsen as someone who has taken a good idea and turned it into ideology.

      No, he's taken RESEARCH and published the results. When the results changed, so did his guidelines. E.g, he no longer says long pages are bad (someone please tell C|NET!)

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  8. Acronymns by neonprimetime · · Score: 4, Insightful

    one of the real strong recommendations is to stop calling it 'RSS' and start calling it 'news feeds,' because that explains what it does

    I've been trying to convince my work that for years now! But instead we have systems named ... LTD, MARDAT, APRP, CLSPMT, CSR, etc. It's insanely hard to work with! Call it what it is ... not by some stupid acronym.

    1. Re:Acronymns by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      I don't know, RSS is more descriptive of the online community of people who keep their diaries on the web (I don't use the b word or the b-sphere word because they are the stupidest contrived words ever).

      In that situation, I just mentally redescribe RSS as "Really Shitty Stories", or "Retarded Stupid Slapnuts", or variations thereof.

      Lets face it, with few exceptions, there's no "news" coming out of the average jerks web browser based journal of daily minutia.

      I propose "Perpetually backed up Digital Sewer Line" or PBUESL.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Acronymns by SteveHeadroom · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My previous employer went the other way and chose cutesy marketting names for their internal systems. They were a little more memorable, but still not descriptive:

      • Insight
      • XSell
      • Success Management
      • BullsEye (when management announced the name, my first response was "Well, they got the first 5 letters right!"

      What happenned to simple names like "Billing" or "Proposals" or "Sales"?

    3. Re:Acronymns by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Do the people who plant IEDs have IED? Are these devices IED? Did they go to IED? I doubt they went to IED and I'm pretty sure they didn't attend the IED! I'm also fairly sure they didn't go to IED.

      Acronyms are for lazy, stupid people. IMO. YMMV. HAND.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    4. Re:Acronymns by mcmonkey · · Score: 1
      People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, ok? They come to Chotchkie's for the atmosphere and the attitude. That's what the flair's about. It's about fun.
  9. RSS and blog design by TheViewFromTheGround · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nielsen has an interesting riff in this very slight interview (couldn't WSJ have expanded the online version of it?) on what to call RSS. It's an excellent point -- lay people don't know "RSS" the way they know "web" or even "Myspace". It is useful technology that could help a good number of people. But between the utter proliferation of newsreaders and naming conventions, it far too fragmented to cement widespread public understanding.

    For a guy who loves to throw around numbers, I find Nielsen's comment about blogs incoherent and worthless. Is there evidence that blogs are being designed for the technical elite? What is this "one extreme edge" that bloggers are on? Is there evidence that blogs are corporate marketing tools even are trying to find a broad audience? These are incredibly dubious assertions. Any thoughtful strategy for reaching out to customers is going to combine blogging, email, RSS and other technologies in an audience-specific way. Duh.

    --
    Online citizen journalism from the inner city: The View From The Ground
    1. Re:RSS and blog design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you are a 'guru' you can say anything you want and the masses will bow down and worship. What you say is automatically, unquestionably true, despite all the evidence depicting the contrary.

    2. Re:RSS and blog design by Pike · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He's right though. Blog-readers (who are often unusually voracious readers anyway) tend to think that everyone else uses the internet the same way they do, but it ain't so. For most companies (yknow, except flickr and textdrive etc), setting up and maintaining a blog is going to have the smallest ROI of any of the approaches you mention, because it will reach only the voracious readers and news junkies of the Internet.

    3. Re:RSS and blog design by julesh · · Score: 1

      For most companies (yknow, except flickr and textdrive etc), setting up and maintaining a blog is going to have the smallest ROI of any of the approaches you mention, because it will reach only the voracious readers and news junkies of the Internet.

      Well, yeah, but ain't the point so obvious that it shouldn't even have been mentioned in a WSJ article. I mean, blogs were designed from the ground up to be a vehicle for personal interaction. Why would anyone think they were useful in marketing?

      There are other corporate uses for a blog; allowing non-team members to stay up-to-date on the progress of a particular project, for instance, and feeding back on developments within that project through a comments section. I just don't get why *anyone* would try to use one for marketing. And I've been in the business of selling web-based marketing packages to corporations for the last nine years, so it's not just that its a field I'm unfamiliar with.

  10. Please people by stratjakt · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Stop saying "blog". It's by far the stupidest pseudo-word ever.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Please people by jejones · · Score: 1

      I fear you'll have no more luck with your campaign than whoever it was (Jonathan Swift?) did centuries ago campaigning against the horrid then-neologism "mob" as opposed to the proper Latin mobile vulgus.

    2. Re:Please people by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      No it isn't. "Blogosphere" and "vlog" are far worse.

      But I agree the "word" (heh) "blog" is pretty damned stupid. I ise the word "blagh" on my journal (which is terribly out of date, I've been too busy getting drunk and chasing women (unsucessfully, of course:) to do much blaghing lately.

      This should make you feel better: Ralph Blog, the god you pray to at the porcelain altar. In that light, "blog" is pretty descriptive!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  11. Ahhhh by drpimp · · Score: 3, Informative

    "For Web-Design Expert, Ease of Use And Clarity Are Essential for Firms"

    I'm definately not an English major, but I believe it should either read

    For Web-Design Experts, Ease of Use And Clarity Are Essential for Firms

    OR

    For a Web-Design Expert, Ease of Use And Clarity Are Essential for Firms

    Almost sounds like a post from engrish.com

    --
    -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    1. Re:Ahhhh by matantisi · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's actually "headline-ese": "Web Expert" here, refers to Nielsen. Newspapers use this kind of locution all the time in headlines.

    2. Re:Ahhhh by JayDot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, it's a typical newspaper method of trying to pack the headline with as much information as possible. Most folks who read the WSJ may not know who Jakob Nielsen is, but they can understand the concept of a Web-Design Expert. The second half of the title refers to the content of the interview, with the main point highlighted. So, to summarize, this newspaper headline could be translated as "Web-design expert Jakob Nielsen believes that ease of use and clarity are essential for firms," thus satisfying proper English usage requirements at the cost of valuable newspaper space. Ironically, an English major would have had a good chance of recognizing this as a newspaper headline instead of an attempt at a properly constructed sentence. Please do not misunderstand; I merely am pointing out a situational irony, not condemning anyone's intellectual prowess.

      --
      Meh, a real sig would take too long, and I have an MMORPG to play with....
    3. Re:Ahhhh by nezmar · · Score: 1

      I'm definately not an English major

      Well, if you write definAtely, you definitely aren't, sir.

  12. This guy is clueless by MarkusQ · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Certainly you can have blogs that function as newsletters, updated on a regular basis. But they don't tend to do that. They don't tend to have that same sort of publishing discipline: having a publication schedule and surveying this week's or this day's events. They could, of course, but they don't tend to.

    What planet is he browsing? Here on Earth, we have blogs that get updated in response to the day's events, often as fast or faster than the MSM. Want to know the latest on the SCO vs. IBM case? Where are you going to look, CNN or GrokLaw? Ditto the Plame leak investigation, the hunt for Mersenne primes and extra-solar planets, cheese making, and on and on... There are blogs on all these subjects updated daily. What newsletter can beat that?

    And his subsequent comments about only the "fringe" readers wanting to have a conversation misses a key point: everybody is "fringe" on some subject, and will talk your ear off about it, given the chance.

    Combine these two facts and you'll immediately see why blogs took off: rather than everyone waiting around some central font of information for the weekly newsletter that--if it's done right--might touch on a point or to that interests them, they're all going off to have conversations about the things that matter to them.

    Short response: This guy is clueless.

    -- MarkusQ

    1. Re:This guy is clueless by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Don't be so quick to write him off as clueless when you haven't actually read what he's saying. He's not talking about the speed at which information is published, he's talking about having it published on a regular schedule.

      I don't really seen the point in publishing something at a set time or on a particular day, but some people think it's incredibly important. For these people, the fact that weblogs might publish it first isn't important, the fact that they are just publishing on the whim of the author as opposed to covering a particular period of time is important.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  13. RSS and email are different modes of communication by jfengel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The nice thing about email newsletters is that they look just like your other communcations; you use one tool to manage them.

    But email is a two-way communication; RSS is really primarily one-way. That makes for a technological difference: with RSS, because it's fetch, you know you're not getting spam. Email is push, and so it's hard to distinguish newsletters from spam. And it's one more site to give your email address to, meaning one more opportunity for spammers to steal/buy it.

    Getting newsletters out of the email loop will make it easier to support some anti-spam technologies. Newsletters are one of the downfalls of pay-to-send schemes, because a free newsletter emailed to a million people at $.00001 turns into real money.

    I like integrating RSS into the email stream. Some email apps already support RSS, and I would like to see them show up in just a single queue of "stuff to read".

  14. The blogosphere is already dead by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's worth nothing that the political blogosphere has already started to consolidate along "MSM lines." I predict that within five or six years that "blogging" will be just another way of maintaining an information-rich website. Now, no snickering about how valuable that information might be from the anti-bloggers. The point is that "blog software" represented a commoditization of CMS software in a way that your average user could handle and is thus a step forward. It is now much easier thanks to WordPress and Movable Type for people to maintain small websites, and WordPress can handle very big ones as well.

    The problem with the blogosphere is that it is "democratic" by nature, but the future evolutions like vlogging and podcasting will not be democratic. They can't be. If you aren't making serious advertising money, the bandwidth fees from your amateur video hour would actually run into bankrupting-levels if a blogger got hit with several "instalanches" in one month on top of say, 10,000 regular viewers a month.

    The interesting part is the software. WordPress has proven to be particularly powerful in terms of forming the framework for websites, as ZDNet has proved with their TechBlogs.

    1. Re:The blogosphere is already dead by julesh · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you aren't making serious advertising money, the bandwidth fees from your amateur video hour would actually run into bankrupting-levels if a blogger got hit with several "instalanches" in one month on top of say, 10,000 regular viewers a month.

      If you're getting 10,000 regular viewers per month, you ought to be getting at least 50,000 page hits per month. You can get $2 per 1,000 impressions from advertising almost without lifting a finger. $100 per month ought to pay for some hefty bandwidth. I don't see the problem.

  15. The fanatics by Wootzor+von+Leetenha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The fanatics are just as likely to subscribe to a newsletter as they are to go and visit a blog frequently. Unless you force users to sign up to a newsletter, fanatics will be the only informed ones, anyway.

    --
    My name is Wootzor von Leetenhaxor
  16. What? by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 4, Funny
    It's really dangerous to design for a technical elite.

    Yeah, just look at what a colossal failure Slashdot is... ... ...Wait a sec...
    --
    Unpleasantries.
    1. Re:What? by porneL · · Score: 1

      Compare to myspace.

    2. Re:What? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points. Slashdot ISN'T an example of "design for a technical elite" even if its audience IS a bunch of nerds. The design itself is quite clean and useable.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  17. Fighting the good fight against irrelevance by faust2097 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Jakob is a great pundit but I think he's becoming aware of the fact that most of the sage advice he compiled almost a decade ago has becoming common sense. Aside from getting interviews he hasn't really contributed anything new or exciting to web usability. First the design community figured this out and stopped buying his books, and I think now those designers' bosses are starting to realize that the $5k they spent sending their people to Nielsen conferences would be better spent on talking to their customers and doing more testing [and doing it themselves cheaply instead of hiring NN Group to do it].

    It's nice to have a face for your industry but I'd really rather see someone like Steve Krug, Luke Wroblewski or Jennifer Tidwell who have done more than design a pre-Cambrian version of Sun's website and a bunch of pie-in-the-sky concept projects. The fact of the matter is that "real artists ship".

  18. Seems like gobbledy-gook to me by dada21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I maintain about 12 blogs on various topics, originally because I would repeat myself so often in e-mail every day to various people. The blogs were initially a time-saving tool for my friends, family and customers. Over time the blogs started gaining an audience, and using RSS much of that audience returns daily. By hyperlinking the various blogs with one another, the audience grows even more-so. Sure, they're fringe topics, but the fact that outsiders can now look into my e-mails and start commenting on them is a very big step to me gaining more information to make my businesses more profitable.

    In the past 6 months I even started to help some of my corporate customers create their own blogs. By next week my company will maintain 6 corporate blogs which seem to be making big strides in keeping my customers' customers happy and informed. Again, fringe topics, but who cares if the production creates a profit (financial or informational).

    I think a lot of old-media promoters will find many ways to downplay the strength of the lone blogger, but it is more than just fringe opinions and a dozen return readers -- it is about creating that "social networking" structure within your social group, and then finding ways to involve your group with others. I believe it is working very well, and I think the future is huge for bloggers, wikis and all sorts of odd social-networking web interfaces.

  19. The content makes it memorable. by khasim · · Score: 2, Interesting
    First off, I also agree that his website looks like ass.
    I don't think he realizes that if every website stuck with a white or light background, dark or black text, blue/purple/red links, and relatively tame fonts, it would be almost impossible for web site owners to create a memorable brand.

    I don't konw about you, but for me, "memorable" comes from content. I don't care about flashy (or flash). I want content.

    The "brand" is the information and insight.
    As he has pointed out, people don't read most of what websites contain, so wowing people with great prose won't help.

    No, the problem (as I see it) is that people don't realize that there comes a point when they have made their statement and should just shut up.

    Instead of shutting up, they try to post more "content" on their site. But they've run out of interesting, insightful material so they end up posting ... crap. And who is going to wade through pages of crap on hundreds of websites?

    Focus on you point/message/concept and polish that.

    Again, look at his website. What do you get from that? 90% of the material there is crap. It's all about interviews that he has done. It's him posting about sites that are "interesting" because they've posted about him because he was "interesting" when he commented on sites that he thought were "interesting". That's just derivative. Get rid of it. If you must have the "I love me" crap, then make it a single link off of the real content of your site. But stay focused on the real content.
    I would point out that my Slashdot T-shirt says "Bathing Geeks in its Soothing Green Light since Nineteen Ninety-Seven", not "Pestering Geeks with its Super-Cool Slogan, "News for Nerds, Stuff that MAtters" since Nineteen Ninety-Seven". People remember sites visually.

    Yes, that is one of the ways that people remember sites. But that is primarily useful for "branding" something. If you're pushing your "brand".

    But you need to have some content for the branding.

    Selling empty Coke cans ... even with a widely recognized visual brand ... not a smart move. The brand is there so people can easily identify what content they wish to consume.
    1. Re:The content makes it memorable. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
      Again, look at his website. What do you get from that? 90% of the material there is crap. It's all about interviews that he has done. It's him posting about sites that are "interesting" because they've posted about him because he was "interesting" when he commented on sites that he thought were "interesting". That's just derivative.

      I seem to recall someone analysing useit.com using Nielsen's own techniques a couple of years back, and demonstrating (as conclusively as anything Nielsen himself ever published) that the quality of the site (using Nielsen's own metrics) had dropped a great deal since it was first created. :-)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  20. RSS by PW2 · · Score: 1

    My biggest complaint is when sites that publish RSS will put HTML within their title or description fields. Many times its just a link or icon that is already listed via other RSS tags. It makes it a pain when they assume that everyone is using a graphical RSS viewer. I wrote an RSS viewer that works with LED signs. Please keep it simple when publishing RSS and let the software choose what data to display.

    1. Re:RSS by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      My biggest complaint is people who wrote some software to display text on an LED sign think the rest of the world should format their data for him.

      It's like the people who start whining "but I use lynx from a console to browse the web! Stoppit with all the frames and java and flash and pictures!"

      The web is, and was intended to be, graphical, and RSS by extension is the same way.

      Modify your code to strip out the URLS and display only the data you want. You can wait for the rest of the world to do it for you, but it's not going to happen.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:RSS by ChristTrekker · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The web is, and was intended to be, graphical

      Says who? TBL's first version of H T ML didn't include IMG, and his first web browser couldn't display graphics.

    3. Re:RSS by Grrr · · Score: 2, Informative
      The web is, and was intended to be, graphical, and RSS by extension is the same way.


      Uh... no.

      You must be new.
      Unfortunately your post will now continue to exist.

      <grrr />
    4. Re:RSS by PW2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >> The web is, and was intended to be, graphical, and RSS by extension is the same way.

      HTML is now graphical; RSS was, in my opinion, designed to be easily machine readable. I do now have filters built in now, but I am still discovering additional creative techniques people have for complicating something that was supposed to be simple, which then requires more code;

      If you want to publish HTML data to your customers, I recommend using HTML.

    5. Re:RSS by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      The solution to this is the same as the solution to browsing from a text-only user agent like Lynx: make sure the HTML you supply degrades gracefully.

    6. Re:RSS by julesh · · Score: 1
      The problem is that embedding HTML in RSS is not part of the standard:

      The most serious compatibility problem is with HTML markup. Userland's RSS reader--generally considered as the reference implementation--did not originally filter out HTML markup from feeds. As a result, publishers began placing HTML markup into the titles and descriptions of items in their RSS feeds. This behaviour has become widely expected of readers, to the point of becoming a de facto standard, though there is still some inconsistency in how software handles this markup, particularly in titles. (source)
    7. Re:RSS by osi79 · · Score: 1

      Well, you can always strip the HTML away. A regexp killing off everything looking like an HTML tag should do.

      The far bigger problem for us aggregator authors is that RSS doesn't specify whether the content is HTML or plain text - one just has to guess. Is this just a bracket or is it a tag? Do I have to resolve entities? RSS 0.94 or something contained a type attribute to specify HTML, but the recent RSS 2.0 spec says "the description MAY contain HTML". May contain, may not contain. How stupid is that?

      The Atom format is much better specified - and content type is a central attribute (with plain text as default) of the respective tags such as title, summary, content. Unfortunately Atom is bit late now to make it and break the RSS2 dominance.

  21. "Jump the shark" applies to websites, too. by khasim · · Score: 1
    I seem to recall someone analysing useit.com using Nielsen's own techniques a couple of years back, and demonstrating (as conclusively as anything Nielsen himself ever published) that the quality of the site (using Nielsen's own metrics) had dropped a great deal since it was first created. :-)
    I would not be surprised at that.

    You know when TV shows "jump the shark". They've run their storylines. They've developed their characters to the maximum extent of the writer's skills. Then they ... decline.
  22. right, but not that right by bitspotter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It's really dangerous to design for a technical elite. We have to design for a broad majority of users."

    By "dangerous", he means just to the corporate bottom line. by "we", he just means businesses.

    The rest of us "elite" are being designed for just fine, thanks.

    He does have a point about the difference between email and rss. That's why I swear by rss2email. it scans feeds, and wraps up items into my email inbox. best of both worlds.

    1. Re:right, but not that right by yofal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Reading Nielsen's quotes used to make me curse, but I really see him as a pundit whose era passed him by.

      Most of his pronouncements in this article show a shocking resistance to the current directions of the web. His 82% of user are unaware of RSS almost directly correlates with a MSFT browser share - and it being unable to handle it. You've got a massive population frustrated by the lack of tools to monitor fresh web content, including blogs, that will suddenly tune into the infinite channel network of the web, because they can do it without wasting their time visiting sites serially. So in a year or so when Vista and a new Explorer are launched watch that RSS/Atom, etc penetration explode.

      Ooh, sesh-ual that.

      --
      lisa bonet ate no basil
    2. Re:right, but not that right by Bogtha · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Atom/RSS became popular long before browser support came about. I don't see why you are tying news feed ignorance to Internet Explorer's lack of support - any Internet Explorer user can sign up for a web-based aggregator today, without any special support. Users aren't hampered by Internet Explorer in this respect, it's their own ignorance, and probably at least partially because it doesn't do much for a lot of people. Not everyone's a geek.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  23. More information by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's gone into more detail in his latest Alertbox column. One thing that caught my eye:

    Finally, some of our users resented the fact that news feeds are divorced from the context of the publisher's website. They preferred the serendipity that came from visiting a full-fledged website that offered additional content beyond the current headlines.

    This makes no sense whatsoever. If you are reading a feed, the website is a click away. If you are reading an email newsletter, the website is a click away. In both cases you aren't reading the information on the website.

    It only make sense once you substitute "some of our users" for "some publishers". Email newsletters don't really have a strong tradition of including the entire article in the notification email, but plenty of people complain if you only provide partial feeds as opposed to full-text feeds.

    I've seen a lot of resentment from some publishers because they think that because the person is reading their article, that they should be able to dictate that they read it on the website. But I've never seen any users complain that Atom/RSS feeds aren't "serendipitous enough". That makes no sense.

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    1. Re:More information by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1
      plenty of people complain if you only provide partial feeds as opposed to full-text feeds

      Who are these people? I want RSS to be a notifier with "teasers"...if I wanted to suck all that bandwidth for full text, I'd just open Opera with a saved tab-set and go directly to the web sites. Anything more than a single paragraph is too much. If you can't capture my attention in 3-4 lines, don't bother me.

    2. Re:More information by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Who are these people?

      When Robert Scoble started writing about this and saying that he simply wouldn't subscribe to partial feeds, there were plenty of people agreeing with him.

      I want RSS to be a notifier with "teasers"...if I wanted to suck all that bandwidth for full text, I'd just open Opera with a saved tab-set and go directly to the web sites.

      Most people don't have the bandwidth they use to download as an important motivator. Why do you? Are you reading feeds with your mobile phone or something?

      I want Atom/RSS feeds to be full-text because then it gives me the choice of reading it in my aggregator or reading it on the original website. It's usually more convenient to read it in my aggregator.

      In any case, your motivations are unimportant, because there's nothing stopping publishers from offering full-text feeds and partial feeds for readers like you who are worried about the bandwidth they are using to download.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    3. Re:More information by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1
      In any case, your motivations are unimportant

      That's true, but in general I would think it would be to the publishers' benefit to direct people to their website proper for the full text. If they're selling stuff, that's where it will be. If they're getting ad revenue, that's where they will be. What benefit is there (for publishers) to giving away content "for free" in the RSS feed? Scoble makes some good points, but he assumes everyone's feed reader interprets embedded HTML. I think feeds (and email, for that matter) are plain text media. I don't get clickable links in either.

      Also, it's not really a bandwidth issue in the sense of download size alone, but in the sense of my time as well. I want informative titles, so I can see almost all my daily feeds at a glance. If the title grabs me, I'll expand it to read the summary. If the summary is good, I'll go to the article. Full-text feeds aren't as bad for this if they are well written articles, where the first paragraph is itself a good summary, but often they are not.

      Both of these relate to my work flow. Minimal and efficient. And isn't efficiency the point of RSS anyway? Even Scoble makes that point. If I wanted to receive my feeds as nearly-complete web pages in their own right, then sure, he has a point. But just because something is in a feed I've subscribed to doesn't mean I'll automatically be interested, only that there's a higher likelihood that I will be.

      Now OTOH, I'd be very interested in a reader that let displayed a list of (informative) titles, showed a (good) summary when clicked, and then let me (optionally) expand it into the full article view. If readers supported this, and all feeds were coded that way, I'd be completely on board with full text feeds. It comes down to this: I don't have time to skim articles to see if it looks good or not, so facilitate my need to sort the grain from the chaff. That's the original point of RSS as I see it. Sure I like the convenience of having the full article available, but not at the price of giving up a decent summary on which I base my decision to read or not. Without a good title and summary, I'd rather skip the feed - I don't have the time.

      But you make a good point in my favor, too. Bandwidth usually isn't a concern. You probably have broadband, right? So why even care about having to fetch the full version? You can have it in a couple seconds if you like the summary. Skim all your feeds' headlines/summaries, opening the ones you like in tabs of a background (or integrated) web browser, and when you're done then read the articles. This is essentially how I read my news now (for those without RSS)...go to FoxNews, CNN, whatever, and click the links into background tabs, then close the home page. Read the tabs in succession, closing as I go.

      It's workflow preference. There's more than one way to skin the cat.

    4. Re:More information by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      in general I would think it would be to the publishers' benefit to direct people to their website proper for the full text.

      But if you read the whole thread, you'll see I'm specifically taking issue with the claim that the readers are complaining about this. You said that, as a reader, you prefer not to have full-text feeds too.

      If they're selling stuff, that's where it will be.

      If the reader wants to buy stuff, they'll click through anyway.

      If they're getting ad revenue, that's where they will be.

      You can include ads in feeds.

      What benefit is there (for publishers) to giving away content "for free" in the RSS feed?

      Well that depends on why the publisher is publishing, but in general it's about reaching more people.

      Most publishers don't publish the thing of value, most publishers publish as a form of marketing. If I read that an online shop I buy from has a new product in stock, it doesn't matter if I read it through a feed or on the website, what matters is that I read it at all. And I'm far more likely to subscribe to a full-text feed. What I am reading is not the thing of value, the fact that I am reading it is the thing of value. Full-text feeds increase the value to many publishers in this way.

      Even when the thing of value is the thing being published, it may still make sense to have full-text feeds. For instance, if webloggers are more likely to subscribe to full-text feeds, then an online news source will get more inbound links by publishing full-text feeds. The people following those links might never have even heard of the website if they hadn't followed the links. The people reading feeds aren't the only people you can reach through feeds.

      I want informative titles, so I can see almost all my daily feeds at a glance. If the title grabs me, I'll expand it to read the summary. If the summary is good, I'll go to the article. Full-text feeds aren't as bad for this if they are well written articles, where the first paragraph is itself a good summary, but often they are not.

      Well that's an argument for not having badly written articles, not an argument for not having full-text feeds. And the vast majority of partial feeds I've seen are either a bare link or the "summary" is just the first sentence or paragraph from the article anyway. I think that the number of feeds with an actual summary in them is negligable.

      And again, even if 95% of the readers wanted partial feeds, that isn't an argument against full-text feeds. There's nothing stopping publishers from offering both.

      Now OTOH, I'd be very interested in a reader that let displayed a list of (informative) titles, showed a (good) summary when clicked, and then let me (optionally) expand it into the full article view. If readers supported this, and all feeds were coded that way, I'd be completely on board with full text feeds.

      That sounds like a good idea.

      You probably have broadband, right? So why even care about having to fetch the full version?

      Because:

      • That would involve starting a web browser
      • That would involve me wading through loads of extraneous junk

      The last point is especially important. The state of web design at the moment is awful. It seems like most pages are focused on everything but the article. It's so much quicker and easier to read a feed as dark text on a light background in a reasonable font size, without five different navigation bars, without a list of other articles (that already appeared in the feed so I don't need to be told again), without a huge space down one side cased by fixed-width design, etc.

      I don'

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    5. Re:More information by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1
      You can include ads in feeds.

      Without HTML? HTML in RSS is nonstandard. All my emails and feeds are stripped down to text. Yes, you can still put text blurbs in, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.

      The state of web design at the moment is awful. [...]

      True, very good points there. I suppose I'm a bit idealistic.

      I still don't see the argument against full-text feeds from the user's perspective. You are making an argument for partial-text feeds, but even if everything you say were true, it wouldn't be an argument against full-text feeds.

      True, there's a place for both, and having one does not exclude the other. But most sites are probably not going to provide dual versions. Recognizing that, the debate is about which format is "better" overall.

  24. He's no guru by Zarjay · · Score: 1

    I don't know what made Jakob Nielsen such a "guru," but all I ever hear from him is outdated advice or advice that suggests that we should jump back several years or so in technology. From what I've read about him, he believes that the world isn't ready for the majority of the technology that we use on the Internet.

    He still believes that "most users have access speeds on the order of 28.8 kbps," which he uses as one of his excuses for having a graphic-free and ill-designed website. It seems to me that his website is proof enough that this guy isn't an expert on design and usability.

    If you ask me, I think any site that requires the author to explain why he uses arrows instead of colons is a poorly designed website.

    Google, Yahoo, Slashdot, and just about the rest of the Web understand that aesthetics and special features matter, and designing for a 28.8k demographic isn't going to help anyone. If we all listened to this Nielsen guy, we wouldn't have technologies like AJAX and Flash enhancing our online experience.

    His view on RSS feeds and blogging implies that the majority of the world can't keep up with the times. So while 10-year-olds are owning cellphones and posting about their lives on LiveJournal, the rest of society isn't capable of learning how to use RSS feeds and blogs? It may take time for the general public to get used to something like RSS feeds, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use it.

  25. Old reasoning. by shmlco · · Score: 1

    Of course one still want pages to load quickly. That said, we have much higher market penetrations of DSL and cable modems than we did just a few years ago, and as such the 28K dialup-modem bit isn't really relevant here. Especially when you consider the audience of the site will be primarily web professionals, the vast majority of whom will NOT be accessing his site at 28K.

    IIRC, failing to consider your site's audience is also a big usability no-no.

    As to graphics, there's a ton of free and inexpensive $29.95 web templates out there that are CSS-based, highly usable, accessible, and graphically pleasing.

    So what he's really saying is that he just doesn't want to be bothered with it and that's fine, but he should SAY that, and eschew the dated rationalizations.

    --
    Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    1. Re:Old reasoning. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      So what he's really saying is that he just doesn't want to be bothered with it and that's fine, but he should SAY that, and eschew the dated rationalizations.


      He DOES. Right on the same page. Directly below the text you quoted, in fact. Unless you're running at 640x480 (thus validating his point that a lot of people still use old equipment --- but I digress), it should have been plain in front of you.


      # I am not a visual designer, so my graphics would look crummy anyway. Since this website is created by myself (and not by a multidisciplinary team as I always recommend for large sites) I didn't want to spend money to hire an artist.


      Good enough for me! I might not agree with Nielsen on everything, but he's got some excellent points, and is worth listening to. No graphic design is lightyears better than *bad* graphic design.

      Now, on the other hand, most of his (most famous) work dates back to before the days CSS was popular and adequately-supported, and indeed, since it's been adopted, usability on the net as a whole has gone up tremendously, and designs have (thankfully) started to veer toward 'tasteful' minimalism (ie. mostly-text-based sites with attractive visual styling. Flickr and del.icio.us both jump into mind). I can't stress enough how useful of a tool CSS can be for *easily* creating user-friendly and visually-consitent sites.
      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    2. Re:Old reasoning. by shmlco · · Score: 1

      And to quote myself, "As to graphics, there's a ton of FREE and inexpensive $29.95 web templates out there that are CSS-based, highly usable, accessible, and graphically pleasing."

      So there're plenty of options beyond creating your own crummy graphics and hiring an expensive graphic artist, which, along with bandwidth, are the only reasons given. As such, his "explanations" fail to explain, and lead me to suspect he's whitewashed over the real reason: he simply doesn't care enough to do any better.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  26. An idea for the ultimate tool by Alaska+Jack · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What we need is a tool that gets us the info we want, in a timely and convenient manner, right?

    So here's what is needed: A web-based service or client-side program (either one would be fine, I think) that lets me set up finely-tuned RSS "smart folders".

    Let's say I am shopping for a 120 gb hard drive.

    * First, I tell the folder what feeds I want it to check: DealNews, Fatwallet, etc.

    * Then, I tell the folder what criteria or terms I want it to look for. Ex.: Show me all items that, in the title or text, include the word "120" AND "drive" AND ("hitachi" OR "seagate" OR "toshiba" OR "samsung").

    * From then on out, I can see the results with just a single click on the folder, like a smart playlist on iTunes or a search folder in Thunderbird.

    I've tried doing this so far with Vienna (mac) and Thunderbird (pc). Both support smart folders, but are crippled because they don't allow finely grained searches, (I can't believe no one has written an extension that improves on T-Bird's rudimentary filtering criteria!) like regular expressions.

    To me, this sounds like the perfect solution. Does anyone know if it exists?

    - AJ

    1. Re:An idea for the ultimate tool by abh · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think FeedDemon - http://www.feeddemon.com/ - has a feature called "Watches" which will do what you desire. I use the program, but don't use that feature.

    2. Re:An idea for the ultimate tool by Alaska+Jack · · Score: 1

      Damn, I can't get this to work at work -- must be a firewall or proxy server issue. I'll give it a whirl on my wife's laptop at home.

      I wish it was free (big shocker there, huh?). There are a lot of free tools (like the aforementioned Vienna and Thunderbird) that are just SO close in terms of functionality. I mean, for shopping alone, this is such a great idea! You tell it what you're looking for, and boom, there you go.

      Another thought -- If implemented via a web interface, this would be a total no-brainer for advertising dollars. You get the items that match your search terms, and the web site throws in a bunch of google-style ads that also seem to apply.

          - AJ
          - jc

    3. Re:An idea for the ultimate tool by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      Shameless plug: the newspaper I work for offers something like this. For any terms and parameters you enter into our search system, you can set up a persistent alert for new items matching those terms and parameters; we'll notify you via your choice of email, RSS or text message when something new comes up. Want to hear about it every time we publish a story containing the word "alpaca"? Go for it. Want to be notified whenever somebody lists a Ford Mustang in our classifieds? You've got it.

      It's a really handy feature, and I wonder sometimes why more places don't do that.

    4. Re:An idea for the ultimate tool by Alaska+Jack · · Score: 1

      Yes, it seems like a no-brainer.

      Using thunderbird, for example, I can choose the RSS feed, and retrieve from that feed any item that contain the word, say, "jayhawk". What I can't get it to do is, from a user-defined set of feeds, get items that do include the term ("jayhawk") but don't contain the terms ("music" OR "band").

      You'd think Google would be all over this, but nope: http://www.google.com/reader/view/

          - AJ

  27. Nielsen brand by porneL · · Score: 1

    He's overapplied his own advice, to the point where his web site looks so generic that it has no unifying brand.

    Really? I can recognize Nielsen everywhere - his website and books look all the same - ugly. That's his brand.

  28. Standing up for Jakob by mr.dreadful · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Surfing through the response here shows a lot of "this guy is behind the times" or "he just doesn't get it" comments. A few things:
    • Jakob and the people at the Nielson Norman Group are *giants* in the useability field. While he has his opinions, he tends to base his work off what *they actually see users do*, not what they say they do or like. He's also fairly clear about his preferences vs. what average people tend to prefer (HTML email is an example)
    • Jakob has a new book that follows on this last book, in which he re-evaluates his recommendations in his first book. Again, he makes his recommendations based upon what users do ( or have, when it comes to something like monitor resolution. ) The first chapter of his new book covers his methodology, and frankly, I doubt many people here have come anywhere close to doing the kind of user testing he's doing.
    • In his latest book, he makes no claim to cover every demographic and says so. If you are targeting kids or teenagers, his book is not necessarily for you. If you are targeting adults, you'll find plenty of good material.
    That being said, I do think he leans towards the austere, but thats a perfectly valid stance to take (hello Google!), but he's not telling people how to design. He's telling people what his research is revealing and how we can avoid common pitfalls. I think more people here would do well to actually RTFB before commenting.
    1. Re:Standing up for Jakob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear hear! I second every word of the parent.

      I lways find it amusing that many people think that Neilson is pushing his own personal tastes, his own strong opinion on site usability when all of his work is based on observations, and I tend to find that those who hate him the most are the ones who themselves have very strong opinions of what a web site should "look" like.

      I get the impression that these people resent being approached with evidence taken from real users presented to them as evidence that thier flowery design opinions are counter to what users actually want. Heres a quick test: go ask any Flash developer if they agree with Neilson...

      I started in web design as a graphic designer, and over the last ten years, through reading books like Neilsons and Tufte, I've come to realise that Graphic Design is objective, and not based on my opinion, as I am never the target audience. Many Graphic Designers (not so much print guys, but definatley the print guys who come over to web design) see their profession as "creative" (i.e. art) and not as a cold, statistic driven discipline. This, I think, is why we see designery types up in arms when presented with data that challenges their elite status as a group that understands graphic design best. Of all people, I find, graphic designers are the least knowlegeable group in their field!

      Anyway, back to the point: I agree with the parent. Neilson data is based on users actual responses. Nothing, not even your BA in post-modern graphic design trumps that.

  29. Who? by MarkusQ · · Score: 1
    I don't really seen the point in publishing something at a set time or on a particular day, but some people think it's incredibly important.

    Who?

    Do you know any? Why would they care?

    Apart from sources like the guy quoted in the article, do we even have any reason to suppose that such people exist? From the push/supply side (e.g., a newspaper, or TV show with a schedule to keep) it makes a great deal of sense. But from the pull/consumer side? Do you really think there are people who would rather bread that was baked at 6 AM, on the dot, to bread that was as fresh as possible? Yes, the truck stop manager expects the employees to clean the restrooms every hour, on the hour, but the customers just want clean restrooms.

    Likewise, I contend, this guy may very well tell his clients that it's important to send your newsletters out on a fixed schedule, and his clients may believe him, but that does not mean that any of their readers would choose "regularly scheduled news" over "the current news, whenever you want it, with searchable archives and the ability to comment on it and read the comments of others".

    --MarkusQ

    1. Re:Who? by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Do you know any? Why would they care?

      Yes. I'm not sure why, I suspect a combination of some form of snobbery and the idea that a particular news segment can be thought of as covering the time period between the last article and the current one. When you publish news articles on a schedule, there's a reasonable expectation that you are covering a particular time period, but there's no similar expectation when you just read what people publish when they feel like it - you don't know whether they are covering what happened that day or just what happened to be on their mind that day.

      that does not mean that any of their readers would choose "regularly scheduled news" over "the current news, whenever you want it, with searchable archives and the ability to comment on it and read the comments of others".

      Oh now come on, that's just a silly argument. Just because you keep to a schedule it doesn't mean that you can't have feedback or searchable archives. You are creating a false dichotomy. Nielsen himself sent notification of this Alertbox out by newsletter, and yet we are discussing it just fine, and his searchable archives stretch back to 1995.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    2. Re:Who? by MarkusQ · · Score: 1
      Oh now come on, that's just a silly argument. Just because you keep to a schedule it doesn't mean that you can't have feedback or searchable archives. You are creating a false dichotomy.

      No, I'm not the one that's creating the false dichotomy; Nielson is the one that set it up (albeit with "tend to"/"don't tent to" weasel words). I'm just pointing out how silly it is--and that's the part you seem to agree with. I would be quote happy to see news outlets provide richly linked stories with searchable archives showing how they reported on the stories in the past, user comments, etc. Nielson says that that isn't important--what's important is to have them come out on a regular schedule.

      I disagree.

      a particular news segment can be thought of as covering the time period between the last article and the current one. When you publish news articles on a schedule, there's a reasonable expectation that you are covering a particular time period, but there's no similar expectation when you just read what people publish when they feel like it - you don't know whether they are covering what happened that day or just what happened to be on their mind that day.

      It can be though of in that way, but anyone who operates under these assumptions is just asking for trouble. Most periodic reports of time-dependent information trail the subject on which they are reporting by some interval, typically around half the reporting period (so the March report comes out mid-May). Magazines a few decades back decided that this was bad for sales, and started post dating their numbers, extending their shelf life but compounding the problem (the information in the May issue of a magazine, which was on the newsstands in March, often covers the period ending in April).

      Conversely, there are established conventions for indicating the interval covered by a particular report (e.g. the BBC's "The Kings of Georgian Britain 1714-1837").

      --MarkusQ

  30. Re:RSS and email are different modes of communicat by the+hesper · · Score: 1

    i'm not an expert on the matter, i could see how mass email can add up in cost. but i would also think that mass numbers of people refreshing an rss feed multiple times to check for updates would incur bandwidth costs. i don't know if there would be a big difference. maybe someone could enlighten me :)

  31. I have a hard time with Neilsen by eck011219 · · Score: 1

    I know he's a big name in usability and has some good points, but I take everything he says with a grain of salt. He's disproportionately fixated on self-promotion, I think - I personally feel he gets a little windy sometimes,at the expense of his message or the larger point.

    But the point that can be taken from this is still interesting - progression need not be strictly linear. Blogs won't necessarily replace mailing lists, but will serve a different purpose for a different audience.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  32. I'm a whore. My blog has categories. by ClioCJS · · Score: 1
    And just to demonstrate, I'll plug my blog to make a point.

    If you go to http://clintjcl.wordpress.com, I have categories listed on the right. Heirarchial.

    So, a user COULD in fact choose to subscribe to RSS feeds only for certain subjects that I talk about (cartoons, politics, journal, etc).

    Ideally, I would like the categories to be presented as checkboxes, where each user can cookie himself a customized view, showing only the categories (s)he is interested in....

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
  33. Design Eye for the Usability Guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Check out this rewrite of Jakob Nielsen's alertbox on Guidelines for link design.
    Original: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040510.html
    Rewrite: http://www.designbyfire.com/deye_web/alertbox.htm

  34. Re:RSS and email are different modes of communicat by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

    i'm not an expert on the matter, i could see how mass email can add up in cost. but i would also think that mass numbers of people refreshing an rss feed multiple times to check for updates would incur bandwidth costs. i don't know if there would be a big difference. maybe someone could enlighten me :)

    Early feed readers had problems with this, but the state of the industry has improved significantly; popular feed readers are increasingly supporting "conditional GET", which is a feature of HTTP that lets you send nothing more than a "nope, hasn't changed since the last time" in response to a feed reader's query.

  35. No, WWW is huge and a small percentage... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    of viewers can be a large number. Just the same, most blogs will have a minuscule percentage of viewers and won't amount to much. Blogging remains a form of vanity, something done only by someone with a large ego that needs stroking or someone who is _paid_ to blog.

    So you can talk "social networking" all you want - you'll still have only a low level of viewers unless you're an outstanding writer and have something extraordinary to say. And even then, your ideas will be stolen from you by others.

  36. MOD PARENT DOWN by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

    I'm a dork.

  37. So, you're all anti-science? by sm62704 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OK, not "all", a few of you seem to have your heads on straight. But most of you seem to be deeply in denial. I don't blame you; most of your blogs are likely BAD (Sorry, Joe, but your page is entirely unreadable).

    Nielson's views have changed as his research (real research using scientifically sound principles). For example, in the last century he advocated, based on studies of users, that long pages were bad design. Folks didn't know how to scroll, and long pages ate some of the primitive browsers (and computers) of the time.

    He's changed this. Scrolling is now part of computing, and computers can handle it. Someone please tell ZD Net and CNET and the Chicago Tribune!

    I'm a former art student (note that page was written 8 years ago, and yes, not having line breaks between paragraphs IS bad design). Admittedly my instructors were minimalists. One design principle they taught is universally ignored these days: Form follow function.

    One poster above mentioned designing for your prospective audience, and that's exactly correct.

    My old, long-gone (it's still in the wayback machine) Quake site broke quite a few design principles, but the broken rules were broken for concrete reasons... well, usually. Some things got complaints from readers, like the animated Strogg dancing to the Quake theme. I eventually moved the music to a different page. And got rid of one of the Stroggs.

    Content is king! Nobody goes to your site for the way it looks. The Prisoner's number two was right- "we want information". (and porn;)

    Some of you even deny your own perceptions. Nielson is exactly right; if it's animated, it's an ad and is dismissed. I know I'm like that, and eye tracking studies show that everyone else is, too. He's done the fcking research! There's no way you can contradict that, except by pointing to conflicting research. I haven't seen any of you do that.

    My old Quake site was pretty popular, considering how sparsely populated the web was, and that it was a niche site. I had a Google Pagerank of 7. Its "cheats" page is still widely plagairized (I should hire a lawyer?) and I attribute a large part of its success to the fact that I wanted it to be useable. When people wrote bitch letters, I listened and considered what they were saying.

    I got a lot more letters saying how much the site rocked than how shitty it was, and quite a few mentioned how easy it was to find INFORMATION (and humor and music and gossip and links and... and...).

    Slashdot has always been pretty useable.

    If you have a web site or blog, you ignore useability at your own peril. Nielson has done his homework. Few of you seem to have. The major newspapers certainly haven't.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  38. Re:RSS and email are different modes of communicat by jfengel · · Score: 1

    In this case I'm talking about an actual monetary cost. There are some spam-fighting schemes that call for purchased "stamps" on every email you send. If your email doesn't have one, I won't accept it. Spam works only because the mail is zero-cost. Even if it cost $.00001 per email, it wouldn't be cost effective any more.

    There are a number of problems with the plan. One is that you can't right now usefully charge $.00001 for anything; the overhead will kill you. There are various schemes to work around that, but none are ready for prime time.

    There's also the mass-email problem: I can't maintain a joke-of-the-day email list with a million people. Switching to RSS for that would help.

    There's also the fact that much spam comes from email zombies: hacked computers that send spam. If those zombies can't get access to your account, then they can send all the spam they like; the lack of a stamp means it'll be dropped. But if they do hack somebody's account sufficiently to buy stamps with it, suddenly that's real money you're losing when you get infected.

    So this is all aside from bandwidth costs. There are issues associated with that, too, but as a sister post explains, those are largely under control.

  39. Re:His time is past by sm62704 · · Score: 1

    You're a useability expert and JAWS won't read your designs? WTF???

    No wonder the web sucks so bad. Do you use teeny tiny fixed fonts and animated crapola as well? Do you have "click here" as link text? Do you have links you have to mouse over before you can tell they're links?

    I'm no useability expert by far, but I know a shitty web site when I see one. Give me a link to one of these sites you've done useability testing on and I might believe you're not trying to fill us all full of shit.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  40. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the only thing you've said in this thread where you seem to have any basis of understanding.

    Nielsen likes web technologies used appropriately. He's not against splash screens universally, he's against splash screens when the audience doesn't want them/ doesn't expect them. He's not against Flash, he's against using Flash for the purpose of using Flash when it doesn't offer any benefit beyond "oooo sparkles".

    I imagine that most people's views of Nielsen's views come from community college art professors who were picked up to teach web programming.

  41. He has a point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nielson is a Useability purist - just like you CSS purists who think tables are dead and Firefox is "standard compliant" (If you are still buying that crap, I have a bridge for sale in New York)

    I have always wondered how this guy gets his name out there. His design information is so basic it's infurating to those of us who have to deal with his words in the business world. (All visited links on every website should be the default purple - Remember that one?)

    BUT - In this case, I find myself agreeing with him. And I am sure if you asked your mom http://www.grokdotcom.com/momtest.htm about RSS, she would look at you with confusion.

  42. oh jacob, he's soooo cute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always thought his grumbling to be...quaint. He came from old school software design, not web design. There's a difference. I swear he has been trying to outlaw fun and diversity for the past 15 years. One of these days he might start realizing that there's more to do online than "seek information". Jacob, please wake-up and listen to your old friend Mr. Norman, he finally realized that it's about making things desirable, not simply useable.

    I hope he doesn't think about sex the same way he seems to think about all other experiences.

  43. No need for a graphic in that case either by lblk · · Score: 1

    There's an HTML entity for a right arrow. That said, it's a disgusting web site.

  44. Re:His time is past by t0mt0m · · Score: 0

    You're confusing accessibility with usability. If your intended audience does not use screen readers then no need to have to code for them specifically. Nielsen disagrees - he thinks everything everywhere must conform to section 508. Your attitude of "I'm no useability expert by far, but I know a shitty web site when I see one." is one of the biggest problems the industry faces. Everyones a designer, apparently. You look at a site and make an instant judgement that you like/dislike it based on your own personal opinions, which most of the time are horribly out of whack with the A) intended audience and B) intended purpose of the site. Quoting the ol'standby's of "don't use 'click here'" and "don't use small fonts" really shows your ignorance.

  45. Jakob now using articles to sell, less to inform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over the years the actual information imparted by Jakob Nielsen's articles is dropping.

    Now it is a bunch of links to pay $$hundreds for articles with
    "136 usability deally-bobs" and only one point of information or opinion like,
    "call RSS a newsfeed". This I find increasingly annoying, like the NYTimes website
    article links to unrelated commercial crap in the news stories.

    But I still read his articles and use the ever smaller bits of information to improve
    my sites like Nostalgia Zone comics. Notice how
    annoying the commercial plug is? And how inane my comment is on only one teeny point?
    How much longer can I blather on about the smaller and smaller usefulness of Jakob's alert boxes...

  46. Re:His time is past by sm62704 · · Score: 1

    I haven't had formal training in useability, but I have had formal training in design. One of my instructors was fond of twisting a layman's take on art, saying "I know what art is but I don't know what I like."

    You're right, accessability isn't the same as useability, but a horse isn't the same as a four legged animal. If your site is not accessable to me it isn't useable by me. If I'm deaf and your site is only graphics with no "alt" tags, it usn't useable to me.

    If you're 100% sure no blind people are going to read your site, then yes, it doesn't need to be JAWS compliant. But few sites are like that. And it isn't hard to make a site JAWS compliant.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  47. Bloggers Extreme? by jessicalandy · · Score: 1

    I do not believe bloggers are extreme as he makes them out to be, passionate maybe but most blogs I find are spamm, and the ones that are not tend to cover alot topics and not just one subject. I am just glad Google took blogs out of its web search results made it alot easier to find great sites.

  48. Opera RSS by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    This is why I use Opera as my RSS reader.

    It's just like e-mail. Searchable like gmail and fast like any desktop client.

    And with tooltip notification of new rss feeds.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.