Microsoft Denies the Windows Kill Switch

WindozeSux writes "Microsoft has denied that WGA will kill pirated copies of Windows. According to Waggener Edstrom,"Microsoft anti-piracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer." Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP which leads one to think what WGA really does then."

Comments

"We can't turn off your computer"

[Anonymous Coward]

"Because we broke power management in the latest update. We will, however, make sure Windows doesn't boot once your computer is on."

Re:"We can't turn off your computer"

[kabz]

Yes, we have reverted to the Windows 95 technique where we shut all processes down, and display a screen that says:

"Please Turn Off Your Computer (Aaaarrrrgghhh Matey)"

Re:"We can't turn off your computer"

[rbarreira]

I hadn't thought about this in a long time, but your post made me remember of a trick (and security hole) to get a dos prompt on a win95 (and 98?) computer! Just type "mode co80" and/or "cls" on the "It's now safe to turn off your computer screen", which seems to be running on top of a command.com shell hehe.

Re:"We can't turn off your computer"

[sumdumass]

In the older win2000 and NT systems, using a win98 boot floppy with the ntfs files copies to it (as described in making an ERD) we used to rename the cmd.exe from the system or system32 directory and insert it as the logon screen saver. The process would give us fully functional command promt at the logon screen were we could change passwords or check other things like server settings.

It should work on win95-98 systems too except you would do it ot the regular screen saver. also you still can do stuff like this with the printer commands so to elevate to admin access all you would have to do is print to a hidden network printer. just like in win95, this is great for acessing recovering passwords and such. Although there are easier ways availible now.

Re:"We can't turn off your computer"

[mcrbids]

oooh look at you with your loaded questions.

no i didn't think it was polished enough, and then i saw there were other more mature tools that do the same thing (dirvish).

I might mention that I discuss the plusses and minuses of dirvish on my related projects page and still get an e-mail every week or so about Backup Buddy.

If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for somebody else. Release your stuff! If only because you might have thought of a feature that I might like! It's this cross-fertilization that makes OSS evolve so quickly and so effectively...

Please, this was never going to happen

[adamwright]

This was obvious from day one. In any deployment of software there will be bugs, and I've read plenty of incidents of WGA not recognising valid installations (or people using invalid keys for valid purchases). Even if the failure rate was 0.001%, that's still thousands of machines "killed" incorrectly. If just one of these happened to be a prominent journalist, IT decision maker or similar, the fallout for MS would be far worse than anything they'd gain by the action.

So, another hyped story killed with a modicum of common sense (and I'm certainly not the first to point this out). I thought IT communities were meant to be filled with rational people?

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[westlake]

I thought IT communities were meant to be filled with rational people?

One can but hope.
Slashdot tends to shake your faith a little.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful? Your experience is not at all what this article is about. You used the OEM key to activate a commercial version; of course they don't match. XP has only ever worked for 30 days without proper activation. You never actually activated it at all. I'm no M$ fan, but what you describe has been happening for the 6 or so years XP has been out.

This article refers to the recent WGA update and whether it will kill machines that had heretofore been running and updating normally for long periods of time.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a similar problem, but with a completely different outcome.

I have a laptop and a desktop. I had WIN2K running on both. Dell was sending me an XP upgrade for my laptop. I got tired of waiting, so I went to the store and bought XP and upgraded my laptop. I figured I could use the laptop upgrade when it arrives for my desktop. When the xp laptop upgrade arrive, I tried to install it on my desktop. The license keys would not work on my desktop. I had two valid licenses, but they were installed on the wrong systems.

I called microsoft's 800 number (from the activation screen) and explained the situation. I wanted to switch my license keys. I did not want to reinstall since I had already loaded many applications and did not want to go through that process again. The microsoft rep said they could not switch the keys, but they would just give me another key for my desktop that would work.

I was shocked! I said, "that means I will have 3 valid xp licenses." I said I could wipe my systems clean and install them the right way and then I'd have a valid key leftover that I could give away. The support rep said they hoped I would not do that, but it was possible.

So even though I know it is cool to bash microsoft, this is a case where they went out of their way to help me. I called them for help and 10 minutes later I had my situation fixed. No need to reinstall Windows or switch os's all together.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Ucklak]

The Key you used is an OEM key and you should have used your retail key.
Tier1 vendors get a key/image that doesn't require activation.

Still pointless that you paid extra money for another XP license while you should have used the original OEM license and spend the time removing the OEM crap instead of reinstalling again.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[DannyO152]

Except... "WGA will kill" is speculation which originated from advice given by a low-level tech in the company. The journalist followed up with requests for clarification from Microsoft, and that company and its pr firm would neither confirm nor deny at the time. The most recent chapter in the saga is that an official statement, quoted in the above abstract, perhaps clarifies Microsoft's intentions. Nonetheless, Microsoft's agent has gone on to say that they they will not entertain any requests for interviews on the subject. I quote:

Update 30-June 2:15PM PDT: Microsoft says they have no intention of answering any questions about WGA. According to the same Waggener Edstrom spokesperson who sent me the statement reprinted above, "We are not granting interviews on this, as all of the information we have to share about WGA Notifications is contained in the response I provided below and the PressPass article that I sent you a link for."

Source: Ed Bott's Column

Perhaps these statements are a consequence of the way WGA was rolled out, and the way, allegedly, some people have had WGA nags when they have legitimate licenses. My guess is that the Microsoft lawyers were smelling lawsuits (there's one already) and that's what put the company into clam mode.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[ratboy666]

So, be rational.

What is the purpose of WGA? Windows Genuine Advantage.

It's purpose is to enforce Microsoft's Intellectual Property Rights. And what right is that? There are really only two -- the right to be paid for Windows, and the right to not have to support Windows that has not been paid for. (and, Customer Education).

The only way to enforce being paid for Windows via WGA is to turn off Windows that haven't been paid for.

The only way to enforce the support right, is to not allow support if WGA is not present, or finds that Windows has not been paid for.

WGA won't work on non-Microsoft platforms. (Microsoft will support Windows 98 and ME without validation, &etc. but has stated that NON-MICROSOFT platforms are not supported by WGA).

Not running WGA locks the user out of the Microsoft Download Center.

Which leads to the "Advantage" part: If you are running Microsoft products on a Microsoft platform, you have the advantage of being able to given access to the Microsoft Download Center for support.

That, of course, can't be true, because it is a violation of US monoply laws (it locks the use of MS Office to the use of Windows). Since it is ridiculous to presume that a company would so blatantly ignore laws, this cannot be the case.

So, either WGA is not needed to get download support for Microsoft Office, OR WGA disables Windows. One is illegal; and the other is silly.

Since I run Microsoft Office under Wine, I wonder if I can request any support via sending of the updates by a different channel (and I will not "crack", "reverse", etc. WGA). Has anyone tried this? Because if that is the case, there is another alternative:

WGA is a tool that simply boosts consumer awareness of bootleg Windows. And that I am completely supportive of.

Ratboy.

Re: Please, this was never going to happen

[QuietLagoon]

Note the very careful wording in the Mircosoft's press release. Microsoft's PR firm (not Microsoft) is saying that WGA will not "will not turn off your computer". The release says nothing about preventing Windows from running, which was what a Microsoft person had previously stated.

So Microsoft, through their press agent, has denied something that they were not accused of planning to do. Releasing the denial through th epress agent prevents any further questions on the matter. The agent will just say that they have said all they know.

Bottom line: the matter of whether or not WGA will prevent a copy of Windows from running remains unsettled.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Itchy Rich]

One can but hope. Slashdot tends to shake your faith a little.

Shh... Slashdot users aren't meant to understand irony.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[jnuzzo]

Which all points to a very convenient (and paranoid) conspiracy theory. Or should I say "another" MS conspiracy theory... try to be rational without rationalizing

It's entirely plausible that WGA does a couple of different things without actually being yet another evil conspiracy, and without any active intervention on installed systems.

Here are a couple of plausible theories that make WGA's existence productive, while not infringing on anybody's rights.

1. WGA just identifies pirated copies.
You buy a new system from a smallish vendor. On your first trip to Windows Update, you see a screen telling you that your OS is pirated. Irate, you complain to the vendor; to MS; and escalate through your state's regulatory agencies. This helps MS isolate pirates but does not affect your ability to get updates beyond a "nag" screen.

2. WGA helps MS collect statistics and nothing else.
When systems connect to get fixes, WGA keeps a counter of pirate-detctions. This allows MS to decide how much to budget for future legal enforcement, and how much to budget for future anti-theft engineering.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[deblau]

When talking about 'intellectual property' rights, let's be more clear.

It's purpose is to enforce Microsoft's Intellectual Property Rights. And what right is that? There are really only two -- the right to be paid for Windows, and the right to not have to support Windows that has not been paid for.

Let's start with the first 'right': the right to be paid. Simply put, there is no such right. You won't find it anywhere in the laws of the United States. No one is required by law to buy Windows from Microsoft (certain public offices notwithstanding). While it is true that external factors (ease-of-use, company policy, etc) strongly compel purchasing decisions, those factors are not legal, and do not create a 'right' of payment.

Now, the second 'right': the right to receive support. Again, there is no such legal right. True, there are implied warranties of merchantability, but these can be expressly disclaimed by an EULA. Let's take a look at the XP Home Edition EULA:

15. LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SOFTWARE ACQUIRED IN THE US AND CANADA. Microsoft warrants that the Software will perform substantially in accordance with the accompanying materials for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of receipt. If an implied warranty or condition is created by your state /jurisdiction and federal or state/provincial law prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an implied warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS TO DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE PERIOD OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY DAYS). AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED AFTER THE NINETY-DAY PERIOD, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND.

YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY. Microsoft's and its suppliers' entire liability and your exclusive remedy for any breach of this Limited Warranty or for any other breach of this EULA or for any other liability relating to the Software shall be, at Microsoft's option from time to time exercised subject to applicable law, (a) return of the amount paid (if any) for the Software, or (b) repair or replacement of the Software, that does not meet this Limited Warranty and that is returned to Microsoft with a copy of your receipt. You will receive the remedy elected by Microsoft without charge, except that you are responsible for any expenses you may incur (e.g. cost of shipping the Software to Microsoft).

So there you have it. They don't have to support their software, ever. If Windows breaks, they have to (a) refund your money, or (b) give you a replacement. They do not have to (c) fix the broken software. Just to make sure you understand that this is their only obligation, they include

16. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. The Limited Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty made to you and is provided in lieu of any other express warranties or similar obligations (if any) created by any advertising, documentation, packaging, or other communications. Except for the Limited Warranty and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Microsoft and its suppliers provide the Software and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, whether express, implied or statutory, including, but not limited to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions of merchantability, of fitness for a particular purpose, of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to the Software, and the provision of or failure to provide support or other services, information, software, and related content through the Software or otherwise arising out of the use of the Software.

Microsoft has no duty to support Windows. You have no right to receive support for Windows. The main reason Microsoft supports their software is because it's buggy and they don't want people to use something else.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[HardCase]

...we bought a legit copy of XP Home and installed it using the product key that the HP machine came with...

Oh no you didn't. The retail XP would not accept the OEM key. You made the story up! I guess we know why you posted AC.

-h-

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[dotgain]

Me concur.

I don't normally "me too", but just in case anyone wants to hear it from a non-AC, that's been my experience too. Each particular version of XP I've dealt with, (Home, HomeOEM, Pro, ProOEM, ProVolumeLicence) immediately refuses a key from a different type. If there are exceptions to this I haven't encountered them.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Ucklak]

All the more reason to use:

Mac- open box, take out and turn on, use
Linux- install, reboot once, use.

As I type this I just realized that even Tier1 OEM vendors require at least 1 reboot for XP. I just setup a HP/Compaq a few weeks ago and it required a reboot.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Vacuous]

I used to do XP tech support, and all I have to say is this:

Yes they can generate XP OEM keys.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[vdboor]

So even though I know it is cool to bash microsoft, this is a case where they went out of their way to help me. I called them for help and 10 minutes later I had my situation fixed. No need to reinstall Windows or switch os's all together.

Each time you re-install Windows you need to explain your motives at Microsoft. And be sure they'll log your call. It's not that bad, but I don't like the idea to answer for my actions at Microsoft.. ...and typing over a 56-digit key twice :-|.

FYI: In my case, a bad driver from windows update caused display problems and it could not be fixed with Dell support. To get a new activation key you'll have to explain this first at the phone.

Re: Please, this was never going to happen

[jrumney]

Forget about sueing for slander. Such cases are drawn out and expensive, and Microsoft can certainly afford better lawyers than you can.

A safer approach would be to bill them for your time sorting out the problems they have created for your clients, then when they don't pay, file a claim against them (does the US have something like the small claims process here in the UK? - it is cheap, no lawyer required, and often large companies don't bother turning up for the hearing and lose by default).

Re:Please, this was never going to happen

[Fred_A]

Slashdot users aren't meant to understand irony.

Of course we do, I have a degree in metallurgy you insensitive clod !

I know what WGA does!

[Nevtje(hr]

...it automatically sends a raid order of your premises to Tomas Bodström and the swedish police!

The usual spin

[Pig Hogger]

Oh, that's the usual spin from the intentionally misinformed P.R. flacks (they can't tell what they don't know, eh?). Who can trust a convicted monopolist anyways???

The real question is..!

[Anonymous Coward]

The question is why not kill pirated copies of Windows?

Re:The real question is..!

[mrjb]

The question is why not kill pirated copies of Windows?

Because a pirated copy of windows does MS more good than a legal alternative OS?

Re:The real question is..!

[jimicus]

You're either a troll or you've been living under a rock for the last week.

Because Windows Genuine Advantage is not 100% accurate.

It has declared PCs to be running an illegal copy of Windows when that is not the case.

Now, if Microsoft could guarantee that they were only turning off pirate's PCs, fine. But the first PC they turn off that isn't running a pirated copy of Windows has some pretty nasty repercussions. Especially if that PC happens to be in a large company or owned by a journalist, lawyer or even a prominent person with a blog.

Myself, I think this is the trial run. Let's face it, the first incarnation of anything from Microsoft always sucks. Doubtless Vista will ship with an improved version of WGA, which is slightly harder to crack. Then, a year or two down the line (perhaps with the first service pack), there will be another improved version which actually works quite well. Then... well, then remote killing of pirated Windows installations may just happen.

Re:The real question is..!

[Bios_Hakr]

Here's a little hint: If pirated copies stopped working, people would buy a legal copy. Computers and components cost a lot. Anyone with the extra scap around to build a custom PC would be more than willing to shell out $99 for WinXP Home. And if you bought your PC, then just throw in the restore disc.

I know linux mentality suggests that 99% of the pirates would suddenly up and switch to an alternative. It won't happen.

Grandma will not spend thousands on a new Mac; she'll get the Geek Squad to install Windows.

Mom won't install Ubuntu; she'll drop a Benjamin on WinXP.

Starving college kids will head over the the school bookstore and grab a student copy for next to nothing.

And MS will make it easy. They'll drop prices and offer discounts if you rat out who gave you the copy. They might even release a tool to map out the distribution of license keys to see if they could track the original licensee.

A WinXP killswitch will not boost the download stats for Debian or RedHat. It'll just boost MS 3rd quarter earnings.

Re:The real question is..!

[Bios_Hakr]

Visual Studio is now free.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

They also have TONS of video and print tutorials.

Office can be had for $150.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/ students/default.mspx

And WinXP is around for between $50 and $150.

So, bare bones, you are looking at $200 to be legal. Or, you can spend a few weeks dealing with waiting for a WGA hack to come out.

Re:The real question is..!

[hey!]

Because you can't rely on any method of detecting piracy not to create false positives. And the rate of false positives doesn't have to be very high before it costs you more than the piracy itself.

This happened to me once. We had software which is deployed on a PDA and communicates to a central server. A product manager wanted to have the server count seats to make sure the users didn't cheat on their licenses. I didn't think it was a great idea, but so be it. Subsequently, our number one support issue was this cheating detection scheme: cases where broken PDAs where replaced, or PDA batteries ran out and they hard reset and people had lost their license files. Yet, I doubt given our customer base that there has ever been an intentional case of software piracy. After the manager left, I changed the system so that if it detected what looks like a license violation, it still functions, but gives a warning with instructions for correcting false positive license problems. This turned an urgent support problem that required phone support to a low priority one that can be handled by email most times.

Re:The real question is..!

[laffer1]

Have you seen what MS charges college students? You only get a discount on XP Pro last I checked, and its still 99 dollars. With the special Microsoft licensing deal at my last uni, I could get it for 89.. wow the savings.

Apparently you make enough that 99 dollars isn't much money. To some people, thats a fifth of their rent or half their weekly paycheck before taxes! If Microsoft shut them out, they would be forced to use an alternative OS. Microsoft doesn't want to lose poor people. I got into computing in my teens while I lived in a trailer park. I can tell you that everyone with a computer ran windows 3.1 or 95 in there. (well except me and a friend who pirated NT4) I was a freak when i tried redhat 5. Aside from the obvious hatred of trailer parks I now have, I don't see these people affording anything or wanting to switch off windows.

Now eventually they'd probably get a license to Windows one way or another. As for the restore disc, my mother's HP didn't come with one. I had no way to reinstall Windows ME on her system when she got a virus. (arguably windows me is a virus too) She makes 30,000 a year and has major credit card debt. No windows license for her. My plan to get her legal is to wait till her system dies and then help her get a new lowend dell. I can't build a pc with a windows license for 300 dollars very easily including a monitor.

On a side note, Macs don't cost thousands of dollars. My iBook was $950 and Mac Minis are under 1000. Its not like you have to buy an apple display. They have great refurb deals too.

btw doesn't geek squad charge a lot for windows installs? That would probably make it closer to $200. At that point wait for dell to have a sale...

(yes dell sucks, but they are cheap and you get a free fireplace with each new laptop)

Re:The real question is..!

[Moofie]

"cd ripper/converter/tagger ($79), and alarm software ($20)"

What color is the sky on your world? Every user needs Photoshop? Well, I say every user needs a copy of AutoCAD, which starts at, what? $3000? See, I can make up numbers too!

Re:The real question is..!

[damiam]

People also pirate when it comes time to update. After all, incremental updates like win2k-winxp or winxp-win vista should be free.

Oh really? You expect Microsoft to employ thousands of programmers for six years in order to give away the fruits of their labors for free?

Something reasonable for most would be windows ($140),office ($300), a/v, firewall ($60), 3 anti-spyware apps ($90), adobe photoshop ($600), nero 6 ultra ($90), quickbooks ($199), cd ripper/converter/tagger ($79), and alarm software ($20).

WTF are you smoking? Something reasonable would be:

• Windows
• Openoffice (free) or Works Suite ($69) if you really need Word
• AVG/Antivir antivirus (free)
• Ad-Aware/Spybot (free)
• Paint.NET/Picasa (both free)
• CDBurnerXP Pro (free)
• iTunes (free)

I've never used Quickbooks or alarm software (alarm software? what the fuck?) but I'm sure there are lower-cost alternatives as well for those who need them. Also, stripped-down versions of Nero and Photoshop come free with most burners and cameras/scanners respectively. No need to pirate them.

Re:The real question is..!

[SeaFox]

Here's a little hint: If pirated copies stopped working, people would buy a legal copy.

Wow, do you go to RIAA University? The same one that says if P2P doesn't exist all those customers would go out and buy those CDs and DVDs they pirated?

Re:Please, this was never going to happen...riight

[dkarma]

This still will happen in one form or another...from crafting slimy legislation to WGA tricks MS is was and will continue to be a slimeball of a company.

Phoning home

[elgee]

If WGA phones home more than once, it is proabably up to no good. If it discovers that your copy of Windows is legal, why on earth would it need to contact MS more than once?

It may well be checking for pirated movies, songs, etc and MS may be in cahoots with RIAA/MPAA/BOHICA.

Re:Phoning home

[jfengel]

It phones home more than once because hard drives can be cloned. If the thing only poked its head up once, pirates would run a single legal box until WGA verified itself, then make copies of that disk and sell them. So it has to check every time if the brain wakes up in a "new body".

There's far less cause for it to phone home if it wakes up in the same old body. There's some complexity going on if you replace a hardware component; defining "a computer" is tricky.

What does WGA do?

[Richard_at_work]

From the article:

Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP which leads one to think what WGA really does then.

WGA is not to stop *us* from pirating Windows, thats never going to be successful. However, it will prove successful against those shops selling whitebox builds with illegal copies of Windows, and it already gives a cheap (or is it still free?) option to consumers caught out like that in return for providing evidence against their supplier (receipt etc).

These are the people that need to be stopped.

Re:What does WGA do?

[Dachannien]

If MS would offer whitebox builders the same price that they offer to the big OEMs like Dell and Gateway, they'd probably see a lot less for-profit piracy. As it stands, the small shops can put together good quality hardware and come out slightly ahead of the big companies, but the moment they add in software (including Windows and Office), they end up being forced to offer the complete system at a very uncompetitive price.

Re:What does WGA do?

[writermike]

If MS would offer whitebox builders the same price that they offer to the big OEMs like Dell and Gateway, they'd probably see a lot less for-profit piracy.

Quite true, but I doubt you can lay all of the blame at Microsoft's feet. This is the way the entire retail world works.

I've built many systems and what it really comes down to is the type of system you intend to build. There's no way in hell a whitebox builder can meet a $299.99 price. They can, however, compete well on a $1500+ system, even with Windows and Office. I've done it many times. And, no, I'm not pirating anything.

In any case, what MS does is what ATI, ASUS, and every one else does. It's still not an excuse to pirate software.

Stop Piracy

[neoform]

"Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP"

It sure didn't stop me.. nor did it stop anyone else i know who's got an illegal copy. But it sure did piss off a whole lot of people who did pay for their copy..

Re:Stop Piracy

[westlake]

But it sure did piss off a whole lot of people who did pay for their copy.

I doubt that even the tinest fraction of Windows users (who do not post to Slashdot) have given a second thought to WGA or even heard any one of the paranoid rumors which fill these pages.

DUA

[a_greer2005]

Of cource they deny this; if they let the rumor run, trust in the company is shaken, if they confirm it, their reputation is shattered...and if they go through with it...holy hell, watch out...

Re:DUA

[Moocow660]

Oh no... the people who already don't buy windows will hate Microsoft even more.

I'm sure they are trembling in fear.

20% failure rate (from TFA)?

[geerbox]

Through its spokeswoman, Microsoft said that "80% of all WGA validation failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys."

That can partially explain why WGA will not cause the "killing" of computers with XP. That said, it's a 20% of their no-corporate users (large-volume purchasers of XP are exempt from installing WGA from TFA) that will be having problems trying to get things to update and work.

Re:20% failure rate (from TFA)?

[Peyna]

Perhaps you failed statistics, but the proper conclusion from the statement that "80% of failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys." is that the other 20% of failures are due to something else.

I would guess some percentage would be the unauthorized use of leaked or stolen non-volume license keys. The rest of that 20% could be anything or nothing.

I have no idea what conclusion you were trying to draw from that statement, but you made quite a jump in logic there. That figure gives us no indication as to what total percentage of users have problems with WGA.

Several purposes, perhaps...

[blcamp]

I'm just speculating here, just my best guesses (so mods, keep that in mind):

1. They can't (intentionally) kill working copies now. If they killed too many legit copies from too many "false positives", they'd be slapped with a class action that would make the current EU anti-trust pale by comparison.

2. While they can't kill windows, they can divide it into two classes (legit and cracked), and thus allow the legit ones to have all the eye candy and other accessories... not that too many people really care all that much about Power Calculator.

3. It is a test program for a future version of Windows, where they can very reliably kill cracked versions of the product, once they fine-tune their ability to tell a cracked version from a legit one.

I can only hope, however, they don't bog thier products down with so much "detection code" that the app is 90% slower... like recent versions of Norton Systemworks.

Re:Several purposes, perhaps...

[Peyna]

What they really need is better copy protection out the door, instead of relying on a way of detecting it after the fact, they should be finding ways to prevent it beforehand.

I think probably one of the biggest mistakes Microsoft made regarding copy protection was in its method of handling volume licensing. Entire Universities across the country were given a copy of Windows that requires no activation or anything, along with (in many cases) one CD key for the lot. All anyone had to do was copy that CD, give away that CD key and those people are immune from detection. Of course, Microsoft knows a lot of those CD keys that have spread like wildfire, but they haven't blocked the one I got from my university yet.

Better copy protection and management in volume licensing upfront would have gone a long way to prevent a lot of these problems. I do suppose there is a balancing of factors taking place, in that on one hand you don't want to overburden customers that are feeding you millions for a volume license, but on the other hand, you also don't want them to turn around and give a copy to every family member and friend and acquaintance.

if the records exist, RIAA or anyone can subpoena

[Anonymous Coward]

Once a record of what is stored on your computer exists at MS, it can be subpoenaed by RIAA, the government, or virtually any company involved in a law suite about virtually anything.

It doesn't matter what MS says about your privacy. If they have your information, they can't protect it from subpoena.

The only safe windows box is one that has no connection to the internet.

How Do They Detect Pirated XP Corporate?

[TomHandy]

It seems like a lot of people who have pirated Windows XP just go ahead and use Windows XP Corporate (which doesn't require activation or a license key). How does MS detect a legit copy of XP Corporate vs. someone who is using a pirated copy of it?

Re:How Do They Detect Pirated XP Corporate?

[ScrewMaster]

It does too require a product key, it just doesn't require activation. Microsoft has been known to deactivate specific keys from the Corporate Edition on occasion, if it has been found to have been leaked and is commonly used for illegal installations.

Kind of funny

[Lumpy]

I know of 2 major corperations that do not allow WGA to be installed on their machines because of sarbanes Oxley rules they have as well as not installing apps that report back information outside the company.

So microsoft will not risk pissing off an entire corperation sized customer by turning anything off.

Personally I wish they did such a boneheaded move. No matter what the naysayers believe it would force a switch to something else and braindead easy installs like Ubuntu and Mandriva will capture a larger amount of pc's.

The bulk of PC owners out there do not care about playing games except at places like pop-cap and other web based time wasters, they dont go shopping for software on a regular basis. They want their pc to do simple web stuff.

I have converted a large number of people over to ubuntu on their pc after scaring theim with the latest MS fud about not having WGA on there to spy on you they will get viruses and trojans ant other things instantly. So they begrudingly try ubuntu and then 2-3 months later ask me to erase their windows partition for more disk space.

Are they pissed they cant play Quake4 or the sims2 latest expansion pack? nope most people dont have a PC capable of playing them nor plan on buying one.

The low end computing power web/wordprocessing only people outnumber game buyers almost 30 to 1. And those that buy software at best buy and the likes only do so after they find out they cant do it at home already. Ubuntu gives them a button to get free software instantly and without effort so they save more money and I dont have to go support their pc on a weekly basis like I did with windowsXP.

Wonder

[donutello]

That last line should read:

which leads one to wonder what WGA really does then.

Come on. That's what editors are supposed to do.

It's all in the name...

[ErikZ]

Well duh. It's not a "Kill Switch"

It's a "Happy Sleepy Funtime Switch!"

Didn't actually refute the claim, did they?

[Teddy Beartuzzi]

The only quote in that story is that "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer". That's not the same thing as saying "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not stop Windows from operating."

My computer can still be on, but XP refuses to boot.

Who started this rumor anyway?

[Osrin]

Wasn't it some "anonymous developer" who was originally quoted? I can't see how turning off copies of Windows would ever have been in Microsoft's best interests.As others have said, even a pirated copy of Windows is a working entry point into the rest of the ecosystem.

As It Unfolded

[Quirk]

In the 90's Microsoft would go into major cities, set up a booth and offer to exchange illegal copies of MS software for legitimate copies.

I believe up until at least Me version and possibly Windows 2000 owners were allowed to install the OS on 2 computers in the family home and carry the OS over to a new mobo when owners updated their hardware. Fast forward to today.

Now, if Windows owners update their mobo's they must purchase a new OS and Home versions of Windows can only be installed on one mobo.

While MS pc Windows is still highly profitable it's no longer expanding in leaps and bounds. It may be that any forseeable increase in profits MS can see for Windows is in squeezing owners of pirated editions.

Personally as I've posted before I'm in countdown mode on Win Xp in a switch over to all Linux/BSD machines. By way of my parents buying my first pcs and my own purchases, as an individual, I've invested in MS DOS, Windows/NT and Office pro for 23 years. No more. I can motivate many people in my sphere of influence to switch to FOSS, but I can't do it if I'm still buying Windows for multimedia/games/web purposes.

If MS can access my computer on a daily basis under the guise of looking for it's stolen property than it's not out of the question that they can accesss my computer for the government. If you have Windows installed on an internet connected pc then you should have zero tolerance for having sensitive information on that pc.

New technology is often met by the buying public in a herd mentality. The model T dominated sales up to nearly 50% of all autos until near existing market saturation then, with the technology having proved itself, many variations in style and manufacture began to appear. Windows is the model T of operating systems, but the early market saturation period has passed.

If I'm right the biggest immediate threat to MS is Apple. I see Apple taking 4-8% of Windows share over the next 3-5 years.

On the desktop Open Source can take considerable market share by way of a multitude of inroads but there are many barriers to overcome.

As for me, as I finish building my new boxes Windows will be phased out. MS has so deeply alienated me that I'll willingly put in time to help fill in the gaps in productivity my switch over will incurr.

Re:As It Unfolded

[nuckfuts]

If you paid for a full retail version of Windows the license allows you to move it from computer to computer. If you're running an OEM version the licence does not allow this. Up until the last year or so if you wanted to move an OEM version from one computer to another you could phone up and say that you're using it on the same computer but with a new motherboard. Then the OEM licence was changed to specifically disallow that kind of thing, presumably because there is no practical way to tell the difference between a new motherboard and a new computer. And it's not just motherboards that can cause Windows to require activation again. If you change enough components, such as adding RAM, a larger disk and a new video card all at the same time you might cross the line into what's considered a new computer.

All that being said, I've moved OEM versions between computers quite a number of times and I've yet to be refused activation key. It is necessary to speak to someone over the phone, however.

Re:As It Unfolded

[Nightspirit]

This is bullshit. I've installed the same copy of XP home on 3 different motherboards, using 3 different CPUs (of course, not all at the same time, but as part of an upgrade), and never had a problem. All it took is a 3 minute call to MS to get a new key. BFD.

This is the same WGA that contradicts itself

[jrothwell97]

On one of the computers at my church, the WGA Notifier came through MS Update. Fair-dos, I thought. But the church logs anonymous users in through the guest profile. You can see where this is going...

When I tried to use the guest profile, the system tray spouted an icon that said "you may not be running genuine Windows." I logged out, logged in as the system administrator, and asked why.

"The product key could not be read."

Well, do you think you'd LET guest users look at the product key so they can steal your copy of Windows, even if the PK isn't attached? But Microsoft contradicted itself, and I went home happy that I'd found a bug in Microsoft software. (I wasn't off the ceiling for several hours.)

Mercifully, an update was issued that allowed the program to check the PK in the Guest profile. But note the wording of the bubble:

"You MAY not be running Genuine Windows."

May? That, translated out of marketing-speak and into English, reads:

"Oh, dear. You might well have a legit copy of Windows but we believed our computer, so we assume you're a fake. So, we're going to display consistent nag screens until you cough up two hundred pounds to buy Windows."

Or throw the (beep) thing away and use Linux or a pen and paper.

Re:This is the same WGA that contradicts itself

[ratboy666]

Don't you know that you are expected to be running as an administrator at ALL times?

Ratboy

I'd rather not have WGA be cracked.....

[Khyber]

I'd much rather instead have some nice hackers find out every vulnerability that's possible thanks to WGA being present, and start wreaking absolute hell with everybody's computers, from DDoS attacks to discreetly installing malware/spyware/child pr0n on unsuspecting people's computers, right up to wiping half of the contents of your hard drive. Perhaps then will the masses rise up against Microsoft and say "Why the fuck have you been selling us a flawed product for years and years? Give us our money back!"

Too bad the majority of malicious 'hackers' don't have any clue about the ethical potential of their skills. :(

Ob Grammar Nazi

[Dun Malg]

"which leads one to think what WGA really does then."

No, it would lead one to wonder what WGA really does.

One would think of a conclusion, and "what WGA really does then" is a meaningless sentence fragment all by itself.
Illiterates!

Re:if the records exist, RIAA or anyone can subpoe

[Rydia]

If they had cause to subpoena MS's store of your information about your computer, they sure as heck have cause to order information straight from your computer via a court-ordered diagnostic. And if you did anything to the data you'd be in contempt of court. What a difference!

NOT the usual spin!

[KingSkippus]

No, this spin is just... beyond. This is one of the funniest (and saddest) things I've ever read (emphasis mine):

Paul DeGroot, an analyst at Kirkland, Wash.-based Directions On Microsoft, said that while most consumers may find this sort of tracking by Microsoft intrusive, many corporations may actually welcome it.

When asked if companies that have installed more copies of Vista than they have purchased will find those copies de-activated, Microsoft said through its spokeswoman that companies "should think of it more like an application that tracks and protects their use of their Volume License keys and installations."

"Most corporations have no interest with getting away with anything at Microsoft's expense," he said. Indeed, corporations, especially those that have merged with another company or undergone a restructuring, often have a hard time keeping track of all the software they own. Most will "overbuy licenses because it's cheaper to do that then to designate staff people to actively manage them."

In other words, WGA isn't a means of cracking down on piracy, it's a useful tool that companies can use to save money! This message has obvously been brought to you by the same type of people who try to tell everyone that Digital Rights Management is a wonderful thing because it allows you to access content.

Jesus, are people really that naive? Why can't they just say what it is—a tool to keep people who haven't paid them lots of money from using their stuff. At least I could be on board with their motives. (Being paid for stuff I do is nice.) Am I the only one who is insulted not so much by WGA's existence as I am by how stupid they think we are in pitching it?

Re:NOT the usual spin!

[Fortran IV]

That entire section on tracking licenses made me laugh. According to postings on their newsgroups, Microsoft's own support people can't answer questions consistently about some of their licensing policies.

Windows Small Business Server 2003 (SBS) uses Client Access Licenses (CALs) to control how many users or workstations can authenticate to the server at one time. If you don't have a CAL assigned to you or your machine, you can't connect to the server. SBS 2003 comes with 5 CALs, and you can buy up to 70 more.

But according to their own Licensing FAQ, there is no mechanism in SBS 2003 for tracking CALs. Some quotes:

"Q. How do I know which mode I have selected? A. For the first 5 CALs that come with the server, you should complete the CAL license document. There is a field for writing in whether you would like to choose per user or per device CALs." Yes, you fill in a blank on the paper EULA to "activate" the first 5 CALs. There's no way to enter the information into the system itself.

"Q. Does [SBS 2003] provide a mechanism to track and display how many user or device CALs are in use? A. [SBS 2003] does not provide a mechanism to track or display CALs.... [SBS 2003] will display only the number of CALs that have been activated."

"Q. How do I know I am in compliance? A. You will need to maintain records of what you have purchased, and how you have assigned the first 5 CALs that come with the server. [SBS 2003] does not provide an automated way to track CAL use." You are expected to write down a list of the users and devices to which you've assigned CALs.

With such sophisticated license tracking in their server systems, I can hardly imagine how well WGA will work for home users.

One 'word' BSA

[user404]

Come on folks, think about it, Microsoft is the BSA (Buisness Software Alliance). $15,000 for each 'copy' of Windows... Bigger net, faster returns... when they just run a simple query where the ID is = and count is greater than 10, $150,000 in one shot, one visit. Now imagine a company of 8,000... They just want a mechism to get some serious cash...

Turning the FUD tables on Microsoft

[FractalZone]

I have converted a large number of people over to ubuntu on their pc after scaring theim with the latest MS fud about not having WGA on there to spy on you they will get viruses and trojans ant other things instantly.

I have been having some success convincing people to move away from Microsoft's buggy bloatware by oh-so-casually mentioning how MS installs spyware (WGA) on their computers. I got the idea when I was showing a friend how to do an MS Update (he'd never even installed SP2, yet thought his system was reasonably current). He observed how my security software prompted me for permission before it allowed Update to actually do certain things. He asked why I did not DL and install WGA. I told him that Microsoft had no right to snoop around my system and that I didn't trust MS's spyware not to send personal information from my system back to MS. I mentioned that I was getting up to speed on Linux with the intent of *never* installing Vista on any of my systems. (I, too, am finding Ubuntu to be fairly straightforward.)

The industry (of which Microsoft is a vey large part) has "the masses" terrified of malware already and since WGA is best described as Windows Genuine Disadvantage in that it does not benefit the user in any way whatsoever, I am learning to drop just the right hints and let FUD work against Microsoft for a change. Mentioning how Microsoft tries to "sneak" WGA onto the systems of unsuspecting users and how it phones how without their informed consent just confuses (and thereby scares) them more. I point out that reputable companies with solid products don't try to infect their customers' machines with spyware.

What makes this so amusing to me is that I don't even consider myself a Linux geek...yet.

Re:Turning the FUD tables on Microsoft

[Bert64]

Actually, microsoft do have the right to snoop around your system and to send any information they want back to them. You gave them this right when you accepted the EULA. Don't believe me? read it more carefully.

classic change of info

[Bubba-T]

It just says it will not turn off your computer. Windows will be dead but your computer will still be on.

They can't and won't eh?

[rbochan]

Tell that to David Coursey.

"SO, HERE I AM, sitting in a jet at 34,000 feet someplace above God-only-knows-where, using my computer and minding my own business when Microsoft threatens to essentially shut down my copy of Office. And at the very start of a week-long business trip, too."

And this coming from one of the biggest Microsoft schill sites on the planet.

oems and the wga

[Sfing_ter]

for anyone who owns or has worked on oem machines, dell, hp, sony et. al. if you run keyfinder you realize that the key used in the installation is not the key on the side of the box... I like many techs you initially wipe the hard drive and install from an updated cd with the latest drives etc., and try to use the key on the side of the box, then you have a 30+ minute call/s to microsoft, where you are harangued "How many computers do you have this installed on?" If you have a dell based xp install cd (since sp1) you can install that version on any dell (i have seen a dell w/winme machine updated to xpsp2 in this manner) and not be asked for a key during the... they also pass wga.

So, I guess it's like the war on drugs; it's not that you are using a pirated copy, it's WHO"S pirated copy you use...

I'm one of those .001%

[jmichaelg]

No, Microsoft doesn't disable your computer - it just disables your ability to install patches which, given the frequency of OS exploits, is tantamount to the same thing as disabling your computer.

I'm one of those .001% - WGA thinks I pirated my copy of XP even though I bought it at Costco. When I disabled the "you have an illegal copy of Windows" balloon via the security panel, another little message popped up saying that I would no longer be able to download patches. I suspect WGA was unhappy because I had disabled several services such as remote registry and alerter.

I can understand Microsoft's desire not to get ripped off but at the same time, I'm not sympathetic if their software falsely accuses me of being a thief and I end up losing a couple of hours figuring out what their problem is.

This is good news

[Linker3000]

I am glad that M$ has cleared this up because while I am no fan of piracy, I think Microsoft has made enough money from its products to allow for a little 'free use' - for example, the laptop I am using now to type this message is using a copy of XP enabled using a keygen program and I don't see how this is likely to affect prof.*(!"$% NO CARRIER

Re:Please, this was never going to happen...riight

[babbling]

They might not be a nice company, but I hope they manage to make every single user pay for Windows, soon. I doubt they will, though, because I think they'd rather people use Windows illegally than use an alternative operating system.

Re:Hold on a minute!

[popsicle67]

I do it on one box once or twice a day and give the help desk hell for infringing on my right to take all the time and trouble I need to decide which harddrive I would rather use
(I rotate between 4 or 5 different ones). One of these days, if enough people make it a regular habit, Microshaft will abandon this narrow-minded, ill-concieved, parochial quest to villainize everybody.

____________________

  Of all the strange "crimes" that human beings have legislated out of nothing, "blasphemy" is the most amazing -- with "obscenity" and "indecent exposure" fighting it out for second and third place.

NOT Necessary

[HermMunster]

First of all, it is going on everyone's computer, not just the pirated copies. It isn't just checking once, as it should. It is checking all the time.

This is the equivalent of calling you a thief every time it checks. Listen, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that when they check you today and you are legit and then they continue to check you repeatedly, they are accusing you of being a thief.

One time. The WGA notification is not a program I will allow on my computer. I purchased my 20+ licenses. I don't expect Microsoft to make me feel, as a small business owner, as if I am a thief.

I don't care about protecting Microsoft. I could care less about them and their profit. They pocket so much of that profit anyway instead of putting it back into development.

Microsoft's Vista is nothing more than XP with a new interface paradigm. Other than that new look they have cut all the meat out of the new features so as to make it a "no go" on the upgrade path. Everyone needs to understand that. Clearly VISTA is XP with a new desktop look. That's it. It isn't worth 200-400 dollars to upgrade.

So, if they make $3 billion in profit quarterly, wheres their loss at? Where's the loss of revenue to those pirates and why should I care less about Microsoft's bottom line.

Stop calling everyone a thief Microsoft.

Microsoft is playing a game with everyone. Over the past year they have been testing, probing, feeling to see how much violation of privacy we will take. Then they devise not just WGA but WGN. The WGN was tested in other countries first because they didn't want the outcry to be too loud from the US too quickly or it would turn the rest of the world off. So they slid their WGN into the EU and Asia in an effort to ensure it got done. Then they released it in the US under the guise that if the rest of the world allowed it and had no issue with it, the US should not either.

But of course, we value our privacy. We recognize that one company siphoning off $3 billion a quarter in profits really should be turning something back to the us. Listen, Bill Gate's donations to charity keep him from having to pay huge amounts of dollars to the government in taxes. This simply allows him to keep more of his money.

I've read the figures about how much his foundation gives, what their yearly budget is. Compared to $3 billion in profit every quarter $1 billion annually (from not just his donations, but others) is nearly nothing. Does he help the people in WA state where he enjoys laws that benefit his profit? From laws that give him tax breaks? Laws that provide him with a workforce that can be forced into 70-80 hours a week without compensation for each hour of work? He gives some money to libraries, schools, etc., but he does nothing for the community.

You can see this. Look at google earth and view the area around the location where his main offices are. There are no real parks, no special services, no assistance to public tranist. Nothing.

The bottom line is that WGN allows him to force purchases by those probably too poor to purchase his expensive OS already. XP costs alot of money for some. It is due to his monopoly that allows the OS to stay as highly priced as it is. Now he wants us all to upgrade to Vista which to anyone with a brain knows that it is just XP SP3. The security features could/should be incorporated into XP considering how much money we all paid for it and how irresponsible Microsoft has been toward the security of the OS, even after 2 years where they know that spyware/malware is so bad that even their head of the department for developing anti-spyware/malware tools tell us it is impossible to resolve all the problems and that we are just going to have to reformat every so often just to keep a safe secure system.

They'll justify Vista as a security fix when everyone realizes that Vista is just XP with a new interface and a huge increase in hardware requirements forced generally due to DRM implementations

Windows Kill Switch

[twmcneil]

Actually, what you are witnessing is the construction of the first Toll Booth to be set up on the Information Super highway.

Before long MS will be scanning your entire system for "assets" that you may not have paid for. Want to play a dvd on your machine? The system will phone home first to check your account balance before starting the movie.

The WGA is a demo to show **IAs how well the toll booth works. And oh by the way, MS will of course, retain a modest fee for staffing the toll booth.

Re:Please, this was never going to happen...riight

[jhylkema]

That's what they're doing in China. I remember reading some Microsoft exec saying, "If they're going to steal software, I'd rather it be our software."

Re:if the records exist, RIAA or anyone can subpoe

[MonsoonDawn]

1. Not everyone who gets a subpoena is automatically guilty 2. There are plenty of reasons why a law-abiding innocent person would choose to destroy information rather than have it revealed 3. There is nothing stopping Microsoft from handing the information over without a subpoena. 4. An individual may have the opportunity to destroy the information prior to receiving the subpoena Your hypothetical suffers from the common phallacy of "If you're not guilty then you have nothing to hide." If you don't understand why that is such a dangerous assumption then there is nothing I can say to communicate my point.

this is a surprise?

[treak007]

When it comes down to it, M$ is a big corporation that is on a crusade to fight piracy and more importantly, make a profit. Does it really surprise you that they will try to destroy pirated versions of Windows? If you don't like it, there are alterantives for Windows out there, so instead of complaining, switch. I don't see what the big deal is. M$ has every right to protect their intellectual property (although maybe they should me more forthcoming about what their software does). The Linux kernel has gotten to the point where most Linux distros can do everything a Windows box can do. The only reason people don't switch is because of this "difficulty" stigma that Linux has surrounding it. In reality however, figuring out how to do things in Linux require just some simple reading and patience.

Alright, I'm done ranting. The point is, yes of course a company thats job it is to make money is going to try to fight piracy in any way possible (regardless of how underhanded you think it is). But the great thing about the OS field is that there are alternatives. If you don't like how Windows is running, switch, simple as that.

thanks for bearing through that rant.

Alternatives to WGA and Windows Update

[nuckfuts]

If you really object to where Microsoft is going with WGA, here is a good article on how to remove WGA and use an alternative to Windows Update.

The article doesn't mention how to get access to other Microsoft downloads, however, such as Windows Defender.

They might not be a nice company

[falconwolf]

but I hope they manage to make every single user pay for Windows, soon.

The thing is is you don't try to force users to pay by screwing your legitimate users. Instead of getting more people to pay you may drive them away. That's what they're doing to me. I've been buying and using PCs with Windows for almost 10 years but the next computer I get will be a Mac. If MS includes Activation in a product I won't buy it if I can get away without having it.

Falcon

Re:They might not be a nice company

[TheDugong]

Don't get me wrong. I have an iBook G4. Even though the geek in me prefers using linux, OSX is IMHO what a desktop OS should be. But... Apple have taken an open source OS added some stuff and then closed it. They remove posts of forums which point out bugs/problems with their products etc. I do not think Apple hold much of a higher moral ground and if they had MS's market share they would probably be doing similar things and everyone would be making posts like "My next PC will be a Wintel". Corporations are not your friend, so why take any sides? Use them as much as they use you.

Misdirection

[Sir Holo]

FTA: "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer," said a spokeswoman with Waggener Edstrom, Microsoft's public relations firm.

Ah, but will it disable my installation of Windows? That's the part I care about.

She did not answer the question. She did not deny that WGA can diasble your installation of Windows. Why do we listen to PR flaks so uncritically?

WGA

[falconwolf]

Here are a couple of plausible theories that make WGA's existence productive, while not infringing on anybody's rights.

This doesn't explain how or why someone sends in their Dell for service gets it back and it refuses to run Windows. Yes, an article Friday I think it was had this as one of the examples of what WGA did to a user.

Falcon

Story was made by M$.

[twitter]

So, another hyped story killed with a modicum of common sense

Common sense does not apply with an organization like M$. From the fine article:

A ZDNet.com blogger reported earlier in the week on a conversation between a Windows user and a Microsoft support staffer, who allegedly admitted that users who refused to install the WGA update would be given 30 days before their copies of Windows would stop working. ZDNet.com said that Microsoft refused to deny the report at the time. But later, Microsoft appeared to sing a different tune. No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer,

That's what I remember too, amazing.

There would have been no kill switch story if M$ had just been honest to begin with. They are not honest, so all you are left with is the facts: WGA installs itself, if you don't have it they won't give you "updates", when installed it phones home every day.

Speculation based on those facts and previous behavior is natural. For years, minor changes to your hardware would stop your M$ computer from working ether through technical failure or forced reregistration. Given their willingness to ship buggy product and previous mechanisms that "turn your computer off", a reasonable person would guess WGA would be doing the same thing. Indeed, what's it going to do if it does find a "non genuine copy"?

M$'s intentionally bad non free driver situation can be compared to live CDs. Knoppix, auto configures in less time than it takes XP to boot and still has room for a complete office suite and web server. Changing hardware in a M$ computer is tricky at best. Even if you are successful, you will often be forced to re register.

M$'s practice of forced reregistration on minor hardware changes has no parallel in any industry.

The William Gates Agent [WGA] is going to suck.

WGA

[dezurtrat]

Yea, this kind of stuff is why we get the crap we do from Microsoft. Instead of creating the best products out there they are simply worried about creating technology to protect their market share.

This reminds me of Xerox in the early computer days when they could have ruled the PC market. But no, they were simply trying to defend against the future. See where it got them??

You had better pay attention MicroSHAFT!

donate for a tax writeoff?

[falconwolf]

Listen, Bill Gate's donations to charity keep him from having to pay huge amounts of dollars to the government in taxes. This simply allows him to keep more of his money.

I'm not standing up for Bill Gates, actually if you look at my posting history you'll see I don't like Microsoft, but Bill donating the money to his foundation doesn't allow him to keep more of his money no matter how you look at it. Actually he keeps less of it, tax writeoff for what is donated isn't $1+ for each dollar donated, ie you don't get more than a dollar tax writeoff for each dollar donated. You get less than a dollar for each dollar you donate, depending on what your tax bracket is each dollar donated may only allow you to writeoff 39% or whatever.

Falcon

Re:Please, this was never going to happen...riight

[dufachi]

If Microsoft was willing to cut the price to the home user for their OS, there wouldn't be a need to pirate it in the first place. Set a price point around 30-40$ US for the full retail edition and you'd see a massive decrease in piracy.

That's copy protection for ya

[Animaether]

Basically I'm sure the software for his Palm introduced a new networking component that has caused this. It happens with our software all the time. We have a licensing mechanism that ties into a few hardware parts of the computer - the basic HDD serial number and the MAC address being two of them which is public info. So if you introduce a new NIC of any sort, the license breaks. And of course people can go "OMFG WTF!?" all the want - but here's the deal... for those people who, for example, use a USB bluetooth dongle and plug that in and out all the time, the license breaks and unbreaks (we get them a new license which now ties to the MAC of the bluetooth dongle) then breaks again as they remove it, etc we make a new license key that ignores the MAC address.

Now guess what has happened, twice, already...

They come to us and say that they had to replace the HDD after a crash. They send in a new authorization file, we check - the MAC is the same, the machine name is the same, the HDD s/n is different. Fair 'nuff. So we should get them a new license.

Or should we? Because in two verified situations, all the end-user did was rename a second computer, stick their bluetooth USB key in that, and generated an auth for it. So guess what happens? We get them another license file for what should have been the same computer with a different HDD, but which is essentially a second computer; because the MAC identifier was the USB key, the license type is MAC-less, and so will happily run on that computer.

Instant free extra licenses - 'piracy' at its best.

So although the author may whine about a change, probably a network stack change, he has his colleagues in the industry to thank for it - because we all know it's not going to stop the users who specifically set out to get an illegal copy, but it will stop those sneaky bastards who prefer not to get caught with pants down with a known illegal copy and instead have a 'licensed' copy to show to any auditing entity.

In a perfect world, people would be honest. In a perfect world, copy and licensing protections wouldn't have to exist. Here's to all software becoming free-as-in-beer and professional coders finding a way to make a living through other means, so that everybody benefits. Just a shame that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Re:That's copy protection for ya

[HiThere]

Interesting justification. Possibly even true.

Guess what? I don't care. If you are threatening to shut down my computer, that's an excellent reason NOT to use your product. Ever. Under any circumstances. Or ever recommend it.

Now I'm not a typical user, since I read the nlank-dashed MS EULA and decided already that I didn't want to go there. Over 5 years ago. That MS has just gotten worse since then only re-confirms that I made the correct decision. When I must, I use a Mac. Otherwise I use Linux. And when I use a Mac, I don't use MSOffice and I don't use MSIE. I use Seamonkey and NeoOffice (or, recently, OpenOffice2).

You'd never guess that I started out as an MS appologist "Not that bad, for a monopoly" I said. Well, at the time it was true, but it's not true anymore.

So. Do I beleive that "They won't shut down your computer."? No. I *DO* believe that that's the official party line, and that if the hoorah is too much they may delay implementing it until Vista has people more securely locked in. And I believe that this comment was a "trial baloon", but I don't think that it being shot down will change their plans, only the timing.

Re:That's copy protection for ya

[arminw]

...... In a perfect world, copy and licensing protections wouldn't have to exist......

In the real, imperfect world, Apple's solution of making the hardware and software together, for each computer gives them the freedom not to have to go through all of this stupid, wasteful activation crap. It is pretty hard to make a free copy of a whole computer. This is only one good reason to prefer their computers over Windows. Apple makes it easy to replace an existing hard drive with a bigger and/or faster model and then re-installing the OS back thereon, together with all users and settings. No need for a user to phone Apple or have an internet connection.

Once MS makes it hard enough for ordinary, honest users to keep their own computers running, perhaps more and more people will begin to see the advantage of a company that makes the whole widget, all as a seamlessly operating thing that "just works". What other product is there, whose continuing functionality is at the whim of its producer, other than a computer running Windows XP or later? It seems that the attitude of MS is that THEY own your computer and therefore can "license" its use to you on terms they decide, since you are just renting it from them. Why should a car owner have to get permission from the manufacturer to replace or modify the engine or some other part of the car? Apple's model is that the user OWNS the vehicle, MS makes people passengers in a taxi, where MS, the taxi driver decides the route and fee to a destination or whether you are even allowed to go there at all. As a home owner, you are allowed to make minor structural modifications to your living space or repaint the whole place in weird colors, but as a renter, you better get permission from the landlord first. MS sees itself as the landlord of every computer running Windows.

Re:Why the FUD?

[Fantastic Lad]

Fuck slashdot, straight up. you assholes don't have the common decency to give MS or Gates a good icon. There is absolutly nothing impartial about slashcock or it's faggot editors.

Yes. Political cartoons can be too much for those with delicate sensitivities. Poor you. Anyway, impartiality was never something Slashdot claimed to have, so why on earth would anybody complain?

There are a hundred and one reasons to think very poorly of Billy boy, and people who like computers are generally very aware of them.

Conversely, those who side with the psychopathic corporate initiative to take over the universe are often quite ignorant of MS's many transgressions, --which probably also means, (if they are into computers), that they aren't particularly smart or generally aware of much of the world. --Typically, such people seem to have the boring host of garden variety fears running rampent through their brains; the fear of homosexuality in your post jumps out at me, and thus your belief that calling somebody a 'faggot' is actually a damaging insult when all it really does is make mature people shake their heads at you.

People only use insults that they would be unhappy to have used against them. I'm a prime example; I'm calling you stupid and ignorant because I'd hate to be called those things myself. You, however, are using 'faggot' as an insult which leads me to think that you probably have a deeply nestled thing for naked men. Poor, poor you.

-FL

What is the WGA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Morpheus: WGA is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your Window's licence or when you turn on your HTPC. You can feel it when you log onto the work LAN... when you go to church websites... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison of upgrade cycles. ...
Morpheus: What is WGA? Control. Windows Genuine Advantage is a corporate-generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this.
[holds up a photo of a bank ATM]
Neo: No, I don't believe it. It's not possible.
Morpheus: I didn't say it would be easy, Neo. I just said it would be the truth.

Maybe not kill...

[Deanodriver]

I'm not certain that MS would switch off features in pirated versions of Windows, but what's to stop them from doing other things to non-legitimate versions? For example, the Aero interface on Vista could be disabled for non-genuine Windows versions, the maximum screen resolution could be 1024x768, only utilising one core on dualcore CPUs, etc. That seems much more likely than switching every PC off, I believe.