UK Recording Industry Wants Allofmp3 An Issue at G8

alveraan writes "According to a the BBC, 'the UK recording industry is urging the foreign secretary to raise the issue of Russian bargain music download website allofmp3.com at the G8 summit'. British Phonographic Industry (BPI) chairman Peter Jamieson wants Margaret Beckett to 'urge the Russian government to take action against the operators of the site by insisting that it is removed from the internet'. Allofmp3 has insisted in the past that it is operating in compliance with Russian copyright laws."

Comments

Be Ashamed

[SB_SamuraiSam]

Seriously. Even wanting to bitch about piracy there and now is disgraceful when there are more important things at hand.

Re:Be Ashamed

[A Dafa Disciple]

Oh, you know how it is with all these political types. It's not about what's "important"; Importance is only relative anyways.

You know what makes an issue seem important? Voices. Voices create the feeling of presence. And surely, if there is presence on behalf of a particular issue, then that issue seems important. Unfortunately for the masses, a small number of rich people can buy voices and create presence, thus promoting their own ideologies as important.

I kind of feel that this post should be moderated as "Well duh," but perhaps a reminder never hurts.

Re:Be Ashamed

[TubeSteak]

Not to detract from your point, but the U.N. Security Council already has an emergency meeting planned.

It isn't like most of the G8 countries aren't dealing with those issues.

P.S. The international community can deal with more than one thing at a time. Economic issues represent 50% of the G8's mission statement.

Re:Be Ashamed

[pete6677]

In the end, it won't really change anything. The UN Security Council will continue to do what they do best: nothing. It will take a good 3 weeks for them to even agree on exactly what problem they're supposed to be discussing. After much debate from 3rd world dictatorships, they'll pass some meaningless resolutions that most of the world will ignore. Same shit, different day. Could the UN possibly be any less relevant?

Re:Be Ashamed

[zanidor]

Even wanting to bitch about piracy there and now is disgraceful when there are more important things at hand.

Exactly. Like how "The British Phonographic Industry" always looks like "The British Pornographic Industry" at first glance. IMO, this is a huge image/credibility issue with the BPI that must be addressed ASAP.

Re:Be Ashamed

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you know how it is with all these political types. It's not about what's "important"; Importance is only relative anyways.

You know what makes an issue seem important? Voices.

Close, but not quite. Most politicians have learned to ignore voices pretty damn well. What makes an issue seem important is how much money, power, and/or fame they can use the issue to obtain, or how much money, power, and/or fame they stand to lose if they ignore the issue. For most politicians, unless you can promise them that listening to you will bring them one of those three things, they couldn't care less what you have to say.

Re:Be Ashamed

[ch-chuck]

Another bogus argument - just because one problem isn't solved does not mean everybody has to drop everything and focus full attention on it. Good grief, surely you don't think that if this gaggle of politicians would only focus and squeeze hard enough, they could solve a 2k yo religious war?

Just because someone robbed a bank doesn't mean the police should stop arresting kids for stealing candy.

Re:Be Ashamed

[A Dafa Disciple]

Close, but not quite. Most politicians have learned to ignore voices pretty damn well. What makes an issue seem important is how much money, power, and/or fame they can use the issue to obtain, or how much money, power, and/or fame they stand to lose if they ignore the issue. For most politicians, unless you can promise them that listening to you will bring them one of those three things, they couldn't care less what you have to say.

I definitely agree with you, 110%. I think an addendum to that would be that there are in fact times when politicians don't have an opportunity to pursue their self-serving interests, when the opposing pressure is too great and the spotlight is too bright; basically, a politician is only as honest as the people keep him.

Re:Be Ashamed

[Apotekaren]

It's sad really that the UN has been belittled to such a unuseful role.
People wonder why none of the dictatorships are being intimidated by the supposed power of the UN. The answer is simple. If the wester countries ignore the UN, so can they. *cough*War in Iraq*cough*.
If the US can just trample UN resolutions without any sanctions, do you think the dictators have any reason to belive the UN can have any power over THEM?

Re:Be Ashamed

[Afrosheen]

You make a good point which was underscored by the UN losing all credibility during the Iraqi invasion. The UN offices were abandoned faster than a French military outpost at the first sight of shelling and unrest in the streets. After all, the thin veil of authority the UN held over the Middle East was promptly yanked when the first US bombs fell from the sky. If the UN says stop, but everyone rolls in, it's obvious they have no power whatsoever.

  It's really a shame for them because the UN actually used to keep alot of shit from erupting just by BEING in an unstable territory. Those days are over.

Re:Be Ashamed

[Eternauta3k]

I swear to fucking god I thought it was the pornographic industry until I read this post. Guessed it was the UK's RIAA

Re:Be Ashamed

[gowen]

If the UN says stop, but everyone rolls in, it's obvious they have no power whatsoever.

For small values of "Everyone". A few rogue states like the USA and the UK (don't forget Poland) don't constitute "everyone", regardless of what US network TV tells you.

International Influence

[A Dafa Disciple]

I can see the RIAA drooling over this event.

With the UKRI pushing their agenda in allofmp3.com's backyard, at a conference of international powers, this becomes an international issue.

Whatever happens there is likely to serve as some sort of moral precedence and influence legislators in the US as well.

Re:International Influence

[TheRaven64]

And the more they push it, the more people will hear about allofmp3.com. Some of them may visit the site, and see how cheap it is to distribute music online. They may start to realise that it's possible to distribute that 99 iTunes track for 10, cover all distribution costs, and still make a profit. They may start wondering if the recording industry really deserves to be getting 90/track for music that was recorded decades ago by people who are now dead, of if they deserve a 900% profit margin.

Re:International Influence

[shark72]

"And the more they push it, the more people will hear about allofmp3.com. Some of them may visit the site, and see how cheap it is to distribute music online. They may start to realise that it's possible to distribute that 99 iTunes track for 10, cover all distribution costs, and still make a profit."

I was at Best Buy the other day, looking at large flat panel monitors. They were nice, but I just couldn't justify buying one for $1,000. Then when I was in the parking lot, a scruffy looking kid called me over to his car. His trunk was open, and he had some monitors that had "fallen off the truck". And they were only $100! This guy has really shown Best Buy that it's possible to sell a $1,000 monitor for $100, cover all distribution costs, and still make a profit.

"They may start wondering if the recording industry really deserves to be getting 90/track for music that was recorded decades ago by people who are now dead, of if they deserve a 900% profit margin."

It is not mathematically possible to have a profit margin of more than 100%. ITYM "900% markup." But is your issue that record companies charge the same price for music by dead people as they do by people who have not yet shed this mortal coil? If so, do you only pirate music by dead people? A related question: Magnatune allows you to download a CD's worth of music for as low as $5. That's still several X the price of music on the Russian sites. Do you think that this makes Magnatune greedy? At least the traditional record companies will front the artists the production money; Magnatune does no such thing. Do you think they deserve to charge so much?

Smart people -- on both sides of the piracy debate -- know that the record industry is hugely competitive and highly speculative, and that the reality is that net profit margins are actually quite low. With the exception of the big media conglomerates that happen to have recording company arms (and you shouldn't be buying music from them anyway), it's exceedlingly rare to find a record company in the Fortune 500, and the reality is that most record companies are like Magnatune -- they have very small staffs and everybody is generally over-worked and under-paid. This is why there's an inherent issue with flying the "the record companies are greedy" flag when making the choice to pirate or use the Russian sites. At the least, there's the karma issue: it's easy for us to declare that somebody is greedy or makes too much money by some arbitrarily standard when considering whether we're going to violate their rights. But no matter how much money we make, somebody with less money than us just might make that same arbitrary decision about us.

Re:International Influence

[1u3hr]

some monitors that had "fallen off the truck". And they were only $100! This guy has really shown Best Buy that it's possible to sell a $1,000 monitor for $100, cover all distribution costs, and still make a profit

You seem to be saying AllofMP3 are thieves. They pay licence fees under Russian law, basically operating under the compulsory licensing model as used for radio broadcasters in many countries. The various foreign music companies could get their cut, admittedly not as much as they'd like, if they filled out a few forms. As for the profit margin, obviously Allof MP3 is covering their costs with their very low prices. So that implies the bulk of iTunes, et al., fees for similar services are pure profit.

Doubtful

[rkhalloran]

Somehow I think this is a little too low-level to come up at a summit like this.

But I'm sure it makes great press for the British recording association to push at their membership to show why they're paying them dues...

Re:Doubtful

[mobby_6kl]

To me, it seems reasonably appropriate for the G8 to look at it. It's actually a rather serious conflict of copyright laws we're seeing here. Currently it's ok for Allofmp3 to unlimitedly export the music, and since their costs are minimal, they can easily undercut any other service. Fine, this would force the competition to lower prices, but with AMP3's costs consist of a few servers and bandwidth, compared to the recording, publishing, promoting, etc. costs of music labels, the latter would find themselves with no income if AMP3 expands further.

BPI's motives are possibly simply "whaaa, they're taking our money!!1", but IMO there's a real issue here. What if Russia's copyright laws allowed GPL software to be unconditionally used as parts of commercial applications?

Re:Doubtful

[init100]

To me, it seems reasonably appropriate for the G8 to look at it.

But what can they use to put pressure on the Russians? Mr Putin has threatened to turn off the gas before, and he might do it again if he don't like being pushed around by the MAFIAA.

Re:Doubtful

[arivanov]

What if Russia's copyright laws allowed GPL software to be unconditionally used as parts of commercial applications?

More interesting question is what if they allowed AllofSoftware.com.

I do not think they do, but the question is worth asking.

Copyright Holders

[gid13]

Yes, this is why our leaders have summit meetings these days. To protect the interests of the rich bastards that finance their campaigns. Somebody hurry up and get a Pirate Party up and running. Oh right, there's no such thing as proportional representation in most places. Wonderful.

Re:Copyright Holders

[gid13]

1. I'm in a band. I don't bitch about people sharing my music.
2. Most "big" bands also don't bitch about people sharing their music.
3. I don't bitch about wanting those peoples efforts for less money, most recorded music is shit, and I either buy or download the rest depending on various factors.
4. I don't bitch about outsourcing either.

Re:Copyright Holders

[gid13]

"There is nothing inherently wrong with being rich."
Actually, distribution of wealth is a major problem. An even bigger problem is the fact that money apparently buys the rich the ability to push a political agenda that will make them more money and worsen the already problematic distribution of wealth.

The Music industry needs to get some perspective

[LiquidCoooled]

The G8 summit is gathering of the worlds most powerful leaders to discuss important topics.

From the agenda page:


This year, we plan to urge our partners to redouble efforts to ensure global energy security. We believe that today, it is crucial to find a solution to a problem which directly influences the social and economic development of all countries, without exception.

I am convinced that our efforts towards attaining this goal should be comprehensive and must stimulate stabilization of the global energy markets, development of innovation technologies, use of renewable energy sources and protection of the environment. We believe that today, we must think very seriously about ways to bridge the gap between energy-sufficient and energy-lacking countries.

The spread of all kinds of epidemics in the world emphasizes the need to step up the fight against infectious diseases. We are convinced that the creation of a global system to monitor dangerous diseases, the development of regular interaction between experts from different states, and broader exchange of research information about dangerous viruses will have a major positive influence on the solution of these serious problems.

In addition to the current agenda, we also plan to raise the issue of education in the G8. In our opinion, the time has come to focus on ways to improve the quality and effectiveness of national education systems and professional training. We must find tools for encouraging the international business community to increase investment into this sector.

Other major international issues we will concentrate on during Russia's Presidency are counterterrorism and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the settlement of regional conflicts, the development of the global economy, finance and trade, as well as protection of the environment.

This is about saving lives and fixing major things wrong with the world and should not be bothering about some fucking music website.

Who cares about poverty in Africa?

[T_ConX]

Recording Executives ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Artists are being robbed by blood thursty pirates!

bigger issues

[pintomp3]

forget about the thousands dying in the middle east or the north korean bombs. mp3s, now that is issue that must be dealt with forthwith. my neighbors dog keeps barking all night too, maybe that can tackle that one too.

They have no shame.

[SatanicPuppy]

Come on, if they had some shame, they'd couldn't live with themselves. Their whole business model is basically to leech as much cash as they can off the works of people who are more creative than they could dream of being, and if this involves exploiting those same people and removing their rights to their own creations, they have no problems with that. They'd screw their grandmothers for an extra nickle.

As far as they're concerned this is one of the most important things in the world...someone is impinging on their leeching! Their blind, rapacious greed is the overriding impulse in their miserable lives.

Nothing would suprise me, coming from them. I literally can't imagine a depth that they wouldn't sink to, given the opportunity.

Re:They have no shame.

[dlim]

By "They", do you mean the RIAA/BPI or allofmp3.com?

Re:They have no shame.

[mOdQuArK!]

allofmp3.com is at least providing a service that people are willing to pay for.

The RIAA & its ilk have to use the power of the government to _force_ people to pay them.

Any true capitalist would know that this is not a viable free-market business model.

Re:They have no shame.

[Score Whore]

allofmp3.com would not have a service anyone would pay for if it wasn't for copyright and the general lack of an automatic "everything goes into the public domain at the moment of creation" situation.

Re:They have no shame.

[Petrushka]

You know, I disagree with you completely. Allofmp3.com provides a valuable service which is far, far better than was ever available by making illegal use of a p2p network. It's quite unique. Even if we didn't have copyright in my country, I'd probably still be paying for allofmp3.com's service.

Re:They have no shame.

[Vadim Makarov]

allofmp3.com would not have a service anyone would pay for if it wasn't for copyright and the general lack of an automatic "everything goes into the public domain at the moment of creation" situation.

No they would have a service. Exactly the same as it is now. Somebody has to run a storage and download service for recordings, and they are doing it well (no matter public domain or not; in fact some older Russian recordings allofmp3 offers are in public domain).

Re:They have no shame.

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

My patience with the RIAA has worn very thin lately, but I still recognise that they do help the music marktet.

Their whole business model is basically to leech as much cash as they can off the works of people who are more creative than they could dream of being

It's not their sole purpose to furfill a deep-seeded psychological need to feel creative (they're a faceless corporation , remember?). They are there to provide a financial leap pad to gain maximum market exposure.

if this involves exploiting those same people and removing their rights to their own creations, they have no problems with that

"Exploiting" is hardly the term I'd use. They help artists. They put a small portion of their assets on the line to help people achieve something that they could not do on their own. It gives them connections to other artists, to big promotions, and helps avoid all the confusion of distributing to a fickle market.
That said, they have completely fucked up their attempts at securing their IP. Every time I hear anything about the RIAA, I hate them more and more. Even the public releases (read propoganda) that they produce themselves makes me hate them more and more.

Come on, if they had some shame, they'd couldn't live with themselves...They'd screw their grandmothers for an extra nickle...Their blind, rapacious greed is the overriding impulse in their miserable lives...I literally can't imagine a depth that they wouldn't sink to, given the opportunity

It's these statements that add no benefit to your argument (read flamebait) that should have sunk your post. As disturbing as their war tactics are, they are, in some ways, charitable. Don't forget it

Re:They have no shame.

[Phisbut]

allofmp3.com is at least providing a service that people are willing to pay for.

Providing a service that people are willing to pay for doesn't make it any more legal or moral. Hired killers also provide a service that people are willing to pay for, is their business any more legitimate because of that?

I know the analogy is terrible, and that "copyright infringment isn't theft and it isn't a crime", but nonetheless, it is still breaking the law. You have the right to not agree with the law, but you must still abide by it. You can also go the "civil disobedience" way, breaking the law to make a point, but "civil disobedience" also means accepting the consquences, which include to get fined and sued.

Or you can just admit that you are selfish and want everything for free right now and deserve to get whatever you want by whatever means necessary. True, people are actually paying allofmp3.com, but allofmp3.com has no right to sell you what you buy from them, and you know it. Similar to paying someone to go steal a car, since you paid, you bought it, right?

Remember. The RIAA is not forcing anyone to pay them. Nobody forces you to buy CD's, nobody forces you to buy music. If you don't like the RIAA or don't agree with the price they put on CD's, the alternative you have is to not buy the music, not to go and infringe copyright.

That's how the market works. They have something you want (copyrighted music) and you have something they want (money). Either you agree with the terms of the exchange (X amount of money in exchange for the right to own one copy of the song, and use it according to laws, including fair use but also copyright), or you don't. If the deal can't be agreed upon, one of 3 scenarios should happen : They want your money badly enough, so they lower the asking price ; You want their music badly enough so you fork the money they ask ; Neither of you care wants what the other has badly enough, so you don't give them your money, but you don't get the music.

Re:They have no shame.

[mOdQuArK!]

You know, your argument would have a little more "oomph" behind it if allofmp3.com was actually breaking the law - in Russia, where they are located. Since they're satisfying their home country's laws & being good entrepreneurs by providing a _legal_ service that people are willing to pay for, then you're happy with them, right? Or are you just a hypocrite willing to use any means to rationalise sacrificing private property rights in the name of IP?

"Intellectual Property" is _socialism_, not free market. It's an artificial restriction placed on private property rights to support a social experiment (supposedly encouraging creativity and innovation), although many people seem to have accepted it as dogma & a "right" rather than actually verifying that it is doing what it was supposed to do.

Asian Software Piracy

[IflyRC]

I see the RIAA cares nothing about the software piracy occuring in Asian countries that gets spread out through different channels. The whole reason MS put those little holographic certificate "Genuine Windows" stickers on their products was because of that.

If AllOfMp3.com IS following Russian copyright law, not a thing they can do. The RIAA has been making knee jerk reactions over the last few years and you would think there would be some backlash...maybe that backlash is responsible for their reported sales figure decline? I'd have hoped for a much stronger showing in opposition of them though when they started filing law suits against grandmothers.

Granted, there are more important things in the world than the RIAA ledger. This is not a world problem issue, this is something minor in the face of whats going on right now.

Re:Asian Software Piracy

[smitingpurpleemu]

The RIAA will never blame the public opinion backlash for declining sales; they'll blame iTunes for selling cheap music and pirates for distributing it for free. This will cause them to mess with iTunes, and more aggressively go after pirates. I think the only things that will make them stop are more court rulings like the recent one that completely shot down the RIAA's prosecution of some random person, and Apple resisting the RIAA's pressure to jack up their prices.

All this Hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

When eastern Europe, India and China provide replaceable bodies for cheap labor, big business is first in line to hail globalization and boost their profits.

But when the same countries come up with innovative ideas and start beating the same business giants at their own game, they suddenly scream bloody murder and plea to their governments for protection from "unfair" competition.

Victory lap for Putin

[amightywind]

Yes, this is why our leaders have summit meetings these days. To protect the interests of the rich bastards that finance their campaigns. Somebody hurry up and get a Pirate Party up and running. Oh right, there's no such thing as proportional representation in most places. Wonderful.

The purpose of this meeting seems to be to give the gangster Putin a victory lap. He liked Yukos so much he made it a country and got it into the G8. To think Putin and his cronies will be making champaign toasts while Khordokhovski rots in jail makes me sick. Russia leading the G8 democracies. What irony!

Sweet!

[Luscious868]

We've potentially got World War III brewing in the Middle East but let's go ahead and spend some time discussing allofmp3.com. Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle the world has it's priorities screwed up.

except that

[TheAxeMaster]

We already have some of the most draconian copyright laws around.
 
I'm still hoping that two things will happen: 1)Bands will distribute their own music digitally (creating the need for more small recording studios), bypassing the need for a contract with a label, and 2)radio stations get their balls back and start actually doing their jobs. And by their jobs, I mean sampling as much music that is out there that they can and playing what they think is best, not just what they get handed by the corporations.

Am I the only one...

[sootman]

...who reads that as "British Pornographic Institute" every time I see an article about them? Say what you will about the RIAA, at least their name is clearer. Damn anachronistic Brits. Who the hell says "phonograph" any more? :-)

Re:Am I the only one...

[Trailer Trash]

Who the hell says "phonograph" any more? :-)

Apparently the same people who are scared to death of the internet.

Re:Am I the only one...

[TheRaven64]

Personally, I prefer the BPI's name. At least they're up-front about being obsolete...

Re:Am I the only one...

[shark72]

"...who reads that as "British Pornographic Institute" every time I see an article about them? Say what you will about the RIAA, at least their name is clearer."

Not hardly; each time the BPI is mentioned, somebody does the "phonographic / pornographic" joke.

"Damn anachronistic Brits. Who the hell says "phonograph" any more? :-)"

If you want to be modded up again, the next time somebody mentions AT&T, you can point out that nobody says "telegraph" any more. And if the NAACP should happen to come up, you can point out that "colored" is also an archaic phrase; in fact, in the wrong context it's offensive. If the ACM has a chapter on your campus, you can point it out to them that "computing machinery" is rather old-fashioned. No mod points for real-life corrections, though.

Having solved other problems...

[RyoShin]

Yeah. This should definately be a priority at the summit.

Because, you know, there aren't third world countries with rampant militants who will shoot anything, and children going hungry, and human rights violations, and the middle east isn't breaking out in all hell.

I mean, since we have all those big problems taken care of, now we can get down to the little petty issues. Right?

Right?

Re:Global economy/government?

[fish_in_the_c]

Not like we haven't done it before.

As I recall there was a Russian programmer arrested in the united states from violating the DMCA when he was in RUSSIA under the direction of his employer for the actual purpose of COMPLYING with RUSSIAN law.
( although I suppose arguably he was arrested for telling people about it on U.S. soil)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Sklyarov

If I'm not mistaken we also went into a small country called Panama and arrested it's dictator( read the guy who made the laws in that country and couldn't be accused of breaking his own laws) for trafficking Drugs in the country HE ran. We then took said president, ran him through a trial for crimes he DID NOT COMMIT ON US SOIL OR US JERISTICTION and he is now permanently in Jail for drug trafficking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega

Ever heard of the Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe doctrine.
The U.S. has been disrespecting autonomy of other nations for years.

Hey, I want something too

[Shihar]

I would like the G8 summit to address the lack of good sci-fi TV shows (with the exception being BSG). Somehow though, I think global health, poverty, and energy is going to get what I want pushed to the bottom of the list, right next to discussions about AllOfMyMP3.com.

This isn't news. This is a PR stunt. If they actually do discuss this at the G8 summit (they wont), I would call this news worthy. At best, the US might make a quick speech about curbing piracy in the context of improving global trade and then sit down.

The music industry can want and wish all it wants. As the old saying goes though, wish in one hand and shit in the other. See which hand fills up first.

Pay no attention to world hunger

[MECC]

Or AIDS, flu pandemic, nuclear proliferation, or climate change. Just give us other people's money for free.

Greedy shitheads.

But is AllOfMP3.com really legit?

[jbarr]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but it seems like there's lots of posturing in the media, but no difinitive answers.

Is AllOfMP3.com legit (in the USA, or for sake of the article, the UK) or not?

Do artists get paid or not?

Are customers liable if they purchase and download?

Re:But is AllOfMP3.com really legit?

[joe 155]

in Russia it is legal under # 006/3M-05 of the Rightholders Federation for Collective Copyright Management of Works Used Interactively and legal in England under Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48) - section 22... on 1st September they might change the law in Russia (so I'm going to spend all my credit there before then).

You can find info about it, and links to the acts, on wikipedia.

All the things she said, erm, USED to say

[tepples]

If AllOfMp3.com IS following Russian copyright law, not a thing [the MAFIAA] can do.

Other than not ship to Russia? What about dropping all Russian artists (such as tATu)? What about threatening to restructure the record companies to pay less tax to the United States (and more to foreign countries) if the US Department of State (and foreign counterparts) do not act to persuade Russian governments to recognize MAFIAA copyrights more thoroughly? Do you intend to underestimate record industry think tanks?

I don't get it

[Jakhel]

Why doesn't the BPI take a page out of the RIAA's playbook and simply pay off a few russiangovernment officials who will make this "issue" a priority, thus inspiring a host of bullshit legislation regarding digital media? Cut out the middle man, the british foreign secretary, and go straight to the offending country's government officials.

It's working here in the home of the (decreasingly) free, land of the (usually) brave.

Someone to speak for me

[Nom du Keyboard]

Can I insist that the RIAA be brought up at the summit for Extortion and Crimes Against Humanity as well? After all, I should have equal rights to anyone else submitting agenda items.

Re:Bush has a plan!

[cayenne8]

"But only for those of us who make more than $1,000,000 a year....."

You know...I keep hearing people say that, but, I make WAY less than that...and I did see my fed. taxes drop.

Now..if they could just get me out of that damned ponzi scheme they call social security, I'd be all over that. I'd sign over my rights to everything I've contributed so far, just to get out of the program, and take what I'd normally contribute to my own retirmement investment plan...

But, that's another debate entirely.

Re:G8? Saving lives?

[arivanov]

Not all G8 countries are behind agricultural subsidies.

You have a whole spectrum of opinions on this. You start with France which is furthermost on the "pro subsidy" and "screw the africans, oh god they will flood us". On the other side you have UK and Germany which would like to see the subsidies abolished because they do not produce a lot, but provide Uncle Jacque with financial means for screwing the aftricans via their contributions to EU Common Agricultural Policy. Then you have the Russians, Canadians and the Americans which would like to see these abolished for a completely different reason. They think that they can outcompete everybody else on sheer scale and industrial methods in the absence of subsidies.

So on, so fourth. G8 is definitely not uniform on this. If it was it would have reached to an agreement on agricultural issues very long ago. That is not the case. They are on the agenda every time. Both in G8 and in the EU budget hearings.

Anyway, if you have objections to this, France is the right country to bitch about. They are clearly the worst as far as subsidies are concerned.

Re:I'm a allofmp3/alltunes user

[badmammajamma]

I buy from allofmp3 simply because they offer me what I want. Price has nothing to do with it. As soon as another site allows me to set what encoding I want and what bitrate with no DRM, they will get my business. Unfortunately the music industry doesn't understand any of this.

Re:Global economy/government?

[rts008]

I read you loud and clear, as I headed a Secial Forces team in that Panama f*skup.

I'm just getting fed-up with our (USA) gov't. upholding big business at the detriment of individuals, and wondering where to apply the oath I took (and seriously took to heart-I cnsider myself a patriot) to defend the USA Constition against enemies foriegn and DOMESTIC.
It has become really stressful for me at a personal level. I can't decide where to draw the line, but am afraid that my indecision is already PAST the line. I just don't know anymore, and this dismays me.

To me, it seems a fine line between protecting your country's existance and keeping same nose out of other country's existance, I am afraid we are rushing across that fine line with a veangeance at the behest of some of our powerful corp.'s/lobbyists...and that disgusts and angers me.

I dunno, something has to give, I'm just afraid of just what gives anymore.

Russian September

[Doc Ruby]

AllOfMP3.com says they're going to stop being so controversial "after Russian copyright law changes in September". What is that change they're referring to?

Allofmp3 must honor the Berne Convention

[solprovider]

Copyright law before the collapse of the Soviet Union:
- All copyrights created in the Soviet Union are owned by the government.
- All other copyrights are owned by the government in the Soviet Union.
- These laws do not apply to Tetris.

Copyright law since the collapse:
- All copyrights are owned by whomever can find them in the files of the bureaucracy formerly known as the government of the Soviet Union.
- This law does not apply to Tetris.

===
Beyond the humor, does anybody know anything about Russian copyright laws? Do they have any? If so, how do they handle copyrighted material from other countries? If they have escaped the Berne Convention by dissolving their government, can they stay free? Can we (the U.S.) use the same method to escape? Even if Russia signs/has signed the Berne Convention, can they apply for the "Developing Country" exemption clauses?

[Please wait for research...]

Unfortunately, Russia surrendered to the Berne Convention in March, 1995. The U.S surrendered in 1988 (effective in 1989). Brunei is the latest victim; they are not afflicted with the terms of the Berne Convention until August.

OT: Any country may denounce the Berne Convention 5 years after it is in force, with the expiration of force taking effect 1 year after the official denounciation. Can I send the notification on behalf of the U.S.?

I could not find a list of countries taking advantage of the "Developing Country" clauses, but the clauses seem to have expired on Jan 1, 2006.

Applying this to the discussion, Russian copyright law must include the awful terms of the Berne Convention, so Allofmp3 must respect the copyrights of creators in the United Kingdom (founding member, 1887). From the article, Allofmp3 states it complies by paying royalties to 2 Russian organizations. The issue is those organization do not have the right to license works from other countries, and are not paying any royalties outside Russia.

Re:Allofmp3 must honor the Berne Convention

[Vadim Makarov]

does anybody know anything about Russian copyright laws? Do they have any?

Russian original | English translation.

The legal basis for allofmp3.com's operation is mostly buried at the end of the law, in the articles on "collective administration of economic rights".

The USSR signed the Berne convention in 1973, but specifically mentioned the convention was not to be applied retroactively. So all foreign works created before the joining date (some day in 1973, I don't remember) are in the public domain in Russia (who legally inherited the treaties the USSR made).

Re:Oh the Howwuh... (said like Elmer Fudd)

[shark72]

"That means they'll only clear a few billion this year instead of the extra hundred million or so that never makes it to the hands of the people who matter most in all this: the artists themselves. The most important people in the music business are the composers and musicians who write and perform the music and the producers and engineers who put it all together."

Allofmp3.com does not help this situation. I find it highly doubtful that allofmp3.com is paying them anything close to what's fair. And they are most certainly not paying the producers or engineers; those people are salaried or contractors and the record company pays them whether the record makes money or not. Buying from allofmp3.com ensures that a couple of Russian guys get money (which I suppose is a good thing), but it leaves the record company to foot the bill for making the music a reality. Or, in other words, "payback."

"For those of you out there who like say... Nelly Furtado, if she put her songs online at her own site for legal download at $.25 a track, she'd be a very rich woman."

This is a very common claim. Slashdotters are often quite full of advice for people in the recording industry. While there are certainly plenty of examples of musicians who've managed to eke out a living selling their music without a recording contract, and instances of bands releasing stuff on their own after their contract is up or they're dropped from their label (TMBG is one example), the fact is that there are still many, many more people who want recording contracts than actually get them. Why haven't Nelly and countless others done the right and proper thing? Broadly speaking, one of three possibilities is correct:

1. Slashdotters are smarter than musicians about the best way to make money in the industry. If only they'd listen to us!
2. Perhaps they know something we don't,
3. ...or perhaps they are simply not interested in coming up with the money to produce, record, engineer, market and sell their own music.

BPI contact details

[OfNoAccount]

BPI contact details. If you feel strongly about this, how about writing to them to let them know? Try and keep it polite though, as I suspect that flames aren't likely to flow up the org-chart ;)

Except it's legal in Russia..

[plasmacutter]

It is not piracy in russia.

They pay their license fees just like radio stations and music retailers do in the states..

just because the price for their compulsory license fees is much lower, and the PBI/RIAA is greedy, doesnt mean it's illegal or wrong.

Re:Global economy/government?

[delirium of disorder]

You might be interested in Smedley Butler, if you haven't already learned about the most decorated marine in history. He understood the interested behind US foreign intervention.

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.

He spoke to the U.S. Congress in 1934 to reveal and thwart a fascist takeover of the government that had been plotted by wealthy industrialists. I wish a heroes from the military would have the courage today to stop the neo-conservative fascist (backed by wealthy industrialists) takeover of the US government.

Re:Global economy/government?

[Zemran]

I supported the first Gulf war when we had the clear objective of liberating Kuwait even though I was directly involved in military support for Iraq (they were our ally prior to that war). I had helped with Bosnia and felt that was worthy cause. When I was asked to help again in the Gulf I publicly stated my concerns (within the base where I worked) about the fact that we 'knew' that there were no WMD (the then stated reason for the second war). I had seen the documents... I was soon told that there was no longer a place for me in the services and I was given a sum of money and a contract that said that I am not to discuss anything that I know. I had beleived that I had a job for life but no one said that I could only have that job for as long as I echoed the propaganda.