EVETV - Sport For Nerds · Slashdot Mirror

Everyone knows the geek sport is... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:09 · Score: 0

Mixed Martial Arts. Duh.

Re:Everyone knows the geek sport is... by thePowerOfGrayskull · 2006-07-16 06:42 · Score: 1

I thought it was geek fight club.

Everyone isn't just like you. by hackwrench · 2006-07-16 05:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

Your grandparents will be watching golf tonight

That's presuming a bit much.

Re:Everyone isn't just like you. by WCD_Thor · 2006-07-16 09:20 · Score: 0, Troll

Most of my grandparents are dead, and the living ones hate golf. DAMN YOU FOR BEING SO INSENSITIVE! lol. Anyway, fuck golf watching.

I don't watch sports. by Poromenos1 · 2006-07-16 05:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't watch sports because I don't like sports, not because there are none I like. If I was going to watch something, I'd watch football (soccer to you), not some people playing Eve.

If I wanted to do that, I'd go to a net cafe and stand over people's shoulders.

--
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.

Re:I don't watch sports. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

Wow, that added nothing to the conversation....just because you don't like something doesn't mean the rest of us don't.
Re:I don't watch sports. by MillionthMonkey · 2006-07-16 05:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

Screw multi-ton space vessels.

The sport *I* would like to see would be a normal sport, like football, soccer, or hockey, where the "no drugs" pretense has been dropped, no testing is perormed, and players are encouraged to enhance their performance by any means possible wink wink. A game where all the players are on uppers and going through 'roid rage would make me more interested in the sport.
Re:I don't watch sports. by shams42 · 2006-07-16 06:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

In other words, it would be almost exactly like professional sports today. Steriod testing is currently a joke.
Re:I don't watch sports. by blank+axolotl · 2006-07-16 07:04 · Score: 1

You mean like professional wrestling?

That's pretty much what any sport would eventually turn into if you did that. (especially if the point is to witness a "'roid rage")
Re:I don't watch sports. by MillionthMonkey · 2006-07-16 08:22 · Score: 1

Almost. The pretense is still there that it is a drug-free game.

I think you'd see much more steroid use if that pretense were dropped. Currently our athletes are forced to choose steroids based on their serum trace and the chance of being caught, instead of just choosing the best steroid for the job which should be their ONLY consideration. If everyone is on steroids anyway then as a fan I want my team to be on the best steroids.
Re:I don't watch sports. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 10:01 · Score: 0

I'm trying to finish a meal here, you insensitive clod!
Re:I don't watch sports. by E-Rock · 2006-07-16 13:10 · Score: 1

Or they could go back to the old fashioned blood-sports. I don't think there was ever generating a sellout at the Roman arenas.
Re:I don't watch sports. by pete-classic · 2006-07-16 14:45 · Score: 1

I have been predicting for years that "enhancement leagues" will star popping up for many sports. It won't really get fun until synthetic skeletal and muscular enhancements become feasible.

That and mech-football.

A geek can dream, anyway.

-Peter
Re:I don't watch sports. by cfuse · 2006-07-17 00:57 · Score: 1

The sport *I* would like to see would be a normal sport, like football, soccer, or hockey, where the "no drugs" pretense has been dropped, no testing is perormed, and players are encouraged to enhance their performance by any means possible wink wink. A game where all the players are on uppers and going through 'roid rage would make me more interested in the sport.
I hate to be the one to break it to you, this is the sport you *already* watch - the only difference is that the players are also taking masking agents to cover up the rest of the stuff they use. Look at football (no, not soccer - they only use nose candy) or rugby, or whatever sport involving mass and strength, people don't tend to get that big without chemical assistance (not that *quickly*, anyway).
Nobody, and I mean *nobody* in professional sports is clean - they can't afford to be and remain competitive as well. It just doesn't happen in an age where you can get *rich* playing sports and the difference between winnning and losing is in the hundredths of a second.

Windows-only by tomhudson · 2006-07-16 05:16 · Score: 1, Informative

http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/EVE_3913a.exe

"You have chosen to download EVE_3913_a.exe"

no thanks.

Re:Windows-only by Taevin · 2006-07-16 05:27 · Score: 1

Works in Cedega (possibly Wine too but I couldn't say).

You must have an extremely small game collection if that's your reaction to a Windows game. Don't get me wrong, games are **the only** reason I still have a Windows partition; but I guess I just like computer games too much to stubbornly refuse to use a crappy operating system on principle alone.
Re:Windows-only by Silverlancer · 2006-07-16 05:33 · Score: 2, Informative

It runs almost flawlessly on Cedega, and its on the top of the list of games that Wine is working on supporting.
Re:Windows-only by Aphax · 2006-07-16 13:49 · Score: 1

I've tried running it in Wine (needs patching for it to run at all), but it leaks memory like a sieve and fills my ram (1 GB) within 5 minutes. I can at least do my skilltraining without having to reboot now though.

No by Lord_Dweomer · 2006-07-16 05:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Its been said before and I'll say it again...the reason TV for gamers will have difficulty taking off the way traditional sports TV has is that in order to have a good professional sports team, you need a lot of athletes at the peak of physical fitness. For computer games you bar is much lower and thus there is a much larger percent of the population who, even though they might not be the "best of the best" could still give them a run for their money.

So you're wondering "big deal, why does that affect things?"

Simple. People for the most part would rather PLAY video games than watch them.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!

Re:No by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:28 · Score: 0

I agree. THat, to me, is the same reason I never watch G4. Because when I'm home, and the TV's on, I'm playing a game. Podcasts about games do well because you're commuting or at work when you listen to them. I listen to WOW podcasts when I can't play WOW, not instead of playing.
Re:No by Lord_Dweomer · 2006-07-16 05:37 · Score: 2, Funny

I will add one more point on why this will never be picked up...and this is to do more with the actual format of this particular show...
Your primary demographic for this is a the 18-34 male gamer. DO NOT FORCE YOUR VIEWERS TO SIT THROUGH 9 MINUTES OF COMMENTARY FROM UNATTRACTIVE (sorry guys, just being honest) GUYS!
Man, you think these guys would have learned something from Rocketboom.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Re:No by TheKidWho · 2006-07-16 05:50 · Score: 1

Those guys are there are respected members in the game =]

I'd rahter listen to them on the commentary rather then some chicks with big boobs who know nothing about the game.
Re:No by nacturation · 2006-07-16 05:52 · Score: 1

People for the most part would rather PLAY video games than watch them.

They said the same thing about sports. "What? Broadcast a soccer/football match to nobody in particular and you actually expect people to get enjoyment sitting on their couch for hours watching OTHER people playing it? And that, between plays, we could actually get paid to pitch products to them and they'd enjoy it?"

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Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Re:No by JamesTRexx · 2006-07-16 06:10 · Score: 2, Funny

And if they dub the commentary over a chick with big boobs? Would that be a satisfactory compromise?

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home
Re:No by kai.chan · 2006-07-16 06:16 · Score: 1

For computer games you bar is much lower and thus there is a much larger percent of the population who, even though they might not be the "best of the best" could still give them a run for their money.

This is mostly untrue. Ever heard of Professional StarCraft players? These guys train every day. Some Professional StarCraft players have over 300APM (actions per minute). I guarantee that an average player have no chance of beating these professional players.

Simple. People for the most part would rather PLAY video games than watch them.

Not true.
Re:No by pangu · 2006-07-16 06:22 · Score: 1

I think what we learned from Rocketboom was no one knew WTF Rocketboom was.
Re:No by Raqem · 2006-07-16 06:26 · Score: 1

Man, you think these guys would have learned something from Rocketboom.

Or X-Play. If you're going to show a bunch of video game stuff, you'll need a woman. Maybe a guy if he's funny. Of course, a friend of mine said Morgan Webb looked like a guy, and since then I've been unable to find her attractive. :mad:
Also, who the hell wants to see a 5 on 5 battle when a 150 person fleet battle would be much more interesting, especially since it would mean I could see a battle between 300 people and not worry about being killed like last time...
Re:No by Golias · 2006-07-16 06:53 · Score: 1

Since the dawn of civilization, sports have been watched by more people than were playing. The Mayans had huge audiences for their ball games, as did the ancient Greeks with their Olympics.

Start up a basketball game in a park, and a few people might sit down on the nearby benches and watch. Hold a little-leage baseball game, and parents will sit in bleachers with video cameras.

So with the rich tradition of people finding enjoyment in watching sports, it was natural that broadcast media would pick it up. First on the radio, then on TV.

The only tradition of people watching other people play computer games comes from people in arcades waiting for their turn to play.

Nobody in the history of mankind has ever said, "hey, I've got an idea. Let's go out and watch people play computer games. That would be the perfect way to spend an evening!"

And if you put EVE Online play-by-play on the radio, nobody would listen.

People who think that broadcasting a game of NBA Jam could ever be as popular as an actual NBA game do not have a very firm hold on reality.

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Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:No by Golias · 2006-07-16 06:59 · Score: 1

Your link mostly proved how fantastically boring it is to watch people play video games. That was even more dull than I would have guessed.

As for the quick shot of what appeared to be maybe 70 people attending the event... It was obviously a convention crowd. Go to any sci-fi or anime convention in Japan, Korea, or the US, and you can get a crowd that big to gather for just about anything. There was a far bigger crowd than that at this year's Anime Expo for the sushi-cooking demonstration.

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Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:No by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 07:45 · Score: 0

What you think is "fantastically boring" is only your opinion. You might find WWE, football, or Halo to be "fantastically fascinating", but others might find it absolutely boring.

You are obviously closed-minded. The video provided in the grandparent is only an example. Do you think that they would make a channel specifically for video games in Korea if only 70 people watched it? Thank before you spread your ignorance.
Re:No by Neoncow · 2006-07-16 11:34 · Score: 1

Nobody in the history of mankind has ever said, "hey, I've got an idea. Let's go out and watch people play computer games. That would be the perfect way to spend an evening!"
Contradiction: A Korean Starcraft tournament

I'm no pro Starcraft player, but I was pretty impressed by some of the tactics in the video (even though I don't understand the commentators). I was certainly entertained.
Re:No by nacturation · 2006-07-16 12:02 · Score: 1

Nobody in the history of mankind has ever said, "hey, I've got an idea. Let's go out and watch people play computer games. That would be the perfect way to spend an evening!"

What a lousy argument. For how much of "the history of mankind" have videogames existed? That aside, many sports today appeal to large members of the population because they grew up watching them on TV. If videogames ever reach the same kind of critical mass that sports currently has, I doubt it will be much different. We already have tournaments where the top players get together and play Quake for example. If that were broadcasted in a similar format that various sports entertainment is, I know I'd watch it... heck, it'd be interesting to see how that kid played who won Carmack's Ferrari.

I don't think human civilization will change overnight and adopt videogame viewing as the next big sensation... but if your argument is that people have watched sports since the dawn of civilization and that now, some thousands of years later, it's popular on TV -- then how about giving videogames at least a decade or two to catch up? You'll also notice that all the big sporting events on TV aren't just some random kids playing sports... they're professional teams with big money backing them up. Your comparison of some random teenagers playing NBA Jam vs. professional NBA players is quite flawed in so many ways. If that's an example of your best logic, you might want to start questioning your own hold on reality.

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Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Re:No by Kremmy · 2006-07-17 00:54 · Score: 1

I think a large part of the problem is that video games aren't usually designed with spectators in mind. You can sit down at a ball game and focus on any particular player, or keep an eye on how the game is going from an overview stance. With most video games, if you're watching a friend play that's just what you're doing - watching him, almost from his point of view, and you can't move your focus over to the other characters or what have you in the game. There's no freedom to watch a video game how you would watch sports. Taking a game like EVE, rig it up with spectator-style views, and I think you have something there. Have you ever watched a movie that had an epic star battle, or even just watched televised sports? You'll find that while the camera spends some time focusing on the key players, a lot of time is spent giving an overview of game as a whole and how things have progressed. Unreal Tournament has a spectator view that allows you to move freely through the arena and watch the action. That's a little awkward in practice, but say you added to that fixed position cameras that would show the action in various locations from good vantage points. The key to making televised video game sporting events a success is to provide a view of the action that works, they already have all the excitement you need for a successful sporting event.

The key is presentation. That's all there is to it.
Re:No by Deliveranc3 · 2006-07-17 03:58 · Score: 1

I would cite the active communities of Quake, and Quake 3 DM and Tourney Footage as against what you say.

Once you actually know the games inside and out seeing what the best players are thinking and their little tricks is quite entertaining.

I just saw a match in a game I'd never played and it was great fun to watch.
Re:No by C0rinthian · 2006-07-17 06:35 · Score: 1

problem with a 300 man fleet battle. Well two problems:

1) lag. noone wants to watch a slideshow.
2) Too big to record effectively. A black screen with a bunch of squares shooting each other isn't exactly dynamic. Too much going on to keep track of too.

Personally, I think that Eve needs a game-state recorder. So that you can replay a fleet battle using the game engine and have full camera control.
Re:No by Cornflake917 · 2006-07-17 07:37 · Score: 1

Your link mostly proved how fantastically boring it is to watch people play video games. That was even more dull than I would have guessed.

It was boring for you. That doesn't mean it's boring to EVERYONE. The spectators were obviously into the match (there seemed to be much more than 70 btw). If they were just there for a convention, I don't think they would have been cheering the winner with such excitement. I thought the match was really interesting because I used to play starcraft religously when I was in high school. The speed of which the players are able to pump out units and micromanage them at the same time is nothing short of amazing. It's pretty much an art.

I used to play on a professional counter-strike team. I remember hundreds of spectators watching our playoff matches through HLTV. And we weren't even close to the top teams.

People like to watch people be the best at what they do. Whether it's Texas Holdem, athletic sports, video games, or even cooking (Iron Chef). The amount of people watching generally relative to how popular that activity is. Right now video games are only popular to the under-30 crowd. Depending on how well the game industry does the future, we will see more or less channels showing matches of video games, and I'm guessing more.

--
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game

What a surprise... by also-rr · 2006-07-16 05:16 · Score: 0, Flamebait

...Windows Media Player only. EVE is one of the most comitted Microsoft fanboy companies I have ever known, which is somewhat surprising for what is esentially a small indie.

*Although they use Python they run their backend on MSSQL.
*Client is Windows only. (Although they haven't tried to stop the WINE effort.)
*They are *already* porting to DirectX 10 (bundled with Vista).

One of the prime reasons I stopped playing was because I had no confidence in their future versions being playable on non-MS platforms considering how heavily they are brought in and didn't want to have to abandon a multi-year developed (unlike some MMORPGs, EVE has no level cap and there is no way to catch up with older players) character for that reason.

--
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister

Re:What a surprise... by robinthecandystore · 2006-07-16 05:35 · Score: 3, Informative

maybe know something about eve before you post crud like this. CCP actively work with Transgaming and the client works perfectly well under cedega. A simple google would have found that out. The directX 10 client is going to co-exist with a directx 9 client for a long time as not everyone is going to windows vista and it would be utterly stupid to think that a company that relies on subscribers would cut most of them on older platforms off. To each his own with regard to you leaving. I've been playing a long time now, probably over 2 years, yet i have a character i started 4 months ago who specialized and regularly takes down far older players in pvp. it's down to player skill not character skillpoints. One of the key elements that people with the opinion "I'll never catch up" forget is that by combining forces with other players, you can overcome far older players. There is never a case of an older player being a god of every facet of the game. GoonSwarm (an ingame alliance) is a great example, with over 2000 members, this is an alliance that consists mostly of newbie players and yet they are one of the powers in the game at the moment. Swarming works :)
Re:What a surprise... by Silverlancer · 2006-07-16 05:35 · Score: 1

What else do you expect them to use for live streaming video? Its pretty much the internet standard nowadays. Considering that CCP is spending a great deal of time working with Transgaming to get the game working perfectly under Cedega they don't seem much like a Microsoft "fanboy company" to me. 99% of companies don't even care about Linux, while CCP is going out of their way to try to get the game running on other operating systems.
Re:What a surprise... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:50 · Score: 2, Informative

Let's address these points eh?

* They run the backend of their *supercomputer* on MSSQL, mainly because as a bunch of game devs, they didn't really have the time to learn the intricacies of a UNIX based system when they needed to roll out their updated hardware ASAP.
* Client is indeed Windows only. Mainly because it's DirectX only, I'll give you that.
* They are porting it to DirectX 10, but that ported client is *optional*. If you want to stay with XP/DX9 you can. Not to mention the upgraded graphics engine will still run on DX9 machines, with some minor graphical details missing.
* And you know, this stream works with other players, like the open source VLC. Use that.

And yes, the system has no way of catching up to older player's skillpoint counts, but the whole purpose is to specialise in a class of ship, where the skillpoint/age difference disappears as old players were not able to specialise. And as a bonus, the skill system is time based rather than grind based, meaning poopsockers get no real advantage.
Re:What a surprise... by Durrok · 2006-07-16 05:52 · Score: 1

"Swarming works :)"

We called it zerging back in the day :)

--
I keep telling myself I'm not the desperate type.
Re:What a surprise... by smoker2 · 2006-07-16 05:56 · Score: 1

The video works fine for me using Xine on FC4.
Re:What a surprise... by Troodon · 2006-07-16 06:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

Out of all the mmorpgs Ive played, Eve-online is the most involved and interesting. Ive been playing for under a year and there is still a lot to learn and experience. There are lots of different things to do in the game, but its the principally the pvp that is core and the wars and relationships that evolve between the entities that live out in deep space beyond the stable "safe" core empire systems that is intriguing.
One concern new players have is that with the skill system is that they will be never able to catch up with those that have been playing from the start. While its true you'll never have the versatility of a veteran there are only so many skillpoints that are relevant to piloting a certain ship so as long as you focus you can be just as effective as some vet and any conflict comes down to player skill. Moreover its quite feasible for an organised gang of newbies to gank a solo vet or uncoordinated gang.
Troodon / Irrilian of Eve University.

--
troodon.net
Re:What a surprise... by Tony+Hoyle · 2006-07-16 06:16 · Score: 2, Informative

I found the opposite.. it was as boring as hell. All the 'missions' are 'take this item from here to here, and talk to this person'. Maybe there's the occasional 'kill the pirate' (but they're way too easy). No grouping (definately no group missions0, and you rarely if ever actually see another player. I like my MMORPGs to actually be multiplayer, otherwise I'd sit at home and play any one of a dozen good non-online games.
Re:What a surprise... by Troodon · 2006-07-16 06:30 · Score: 1

While it's quite possible to play solo, the pve/mission running side of the game is really a bolt on and indeed the least exciting. The more interesting parts of the game is the team play seen in PVP, be it fleet engagements or traders seeking to undermine their competitors.

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troodon.net
Re:What a surprise... by TheKidWho · 2006-07-16 06:31 · Score: 1

Uhh missions in EVE are the most boring thing ever....

Secondly you were doing courier missions, do kill missions, slightly more fun.
Re:What a surprise... by Thaelon · 2006-07-16 07:42 · Score: 1

It depends on what type of agent you pick.

If you pick a Command agent, 97% of your missions will be "go here & kill everything"

See here for agent types:

http://www.tesuji.co.uk/agents.php

(The reason the page looks so bad, is it works in the in-game browser.)

And the lvl 2+ missions are not easy if you're still in a frigate (the smallest ship, first you get).

The first part of the ship progression is like this:

Frigate -> Destroyer -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Battleship

And you can't do Lvl 2 missions in a Frigate. I can barely do most of my Lvl 3 Missions in a Battlecruiser.

But hey, to each their own. Some like EVE, some like WoW, some like football. But you gotta admit, this EVE tv thing is kinda cool if you like EVE. It's more interesting to me than football.

--
Question everything
Re:What a surprise... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 08:28 · Score: 0

EVE has to easily be the most player driven MMORPG in existance. If you are in empire running missions for NPC agents, you are correct it is almost entirely a single player game.

http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/Latest.jp g

That space in the middle is Empire. It is mostly boring and where new players start.

All that colored space surrounding it is 0.0 aka the wild west. It has more minerals and wealth but is completely run by player alliances. Alliances can number several thousand people and you get constant fights for territory. Fleets over 100v100 players at a time are not uncommon. It is the only game I've played where player actions actually impact the game.

At the moment you have the GoonSwarm alliance (created mostly by SomethingAwful members) contesting D2's space, a primarily German alliance, in Cloud Ring (Upper Left). A bit farther north you see the region of Deklein plunging into chaos. The politics of what is going on in Deklein is again total player driven and very good soap opera stuff.

Even the people in the blue middle part of the universe are affected by these player run wars. Mineral prices, Ship demand, and Piracy are all fluid things controlled by the players.
Re:What a surprise... by forgotten_my_nick · 2006-07-16 09:02 · Score: 1

>I found the opposite.. it was as boring as hell.

Your somewhat correct. Eve is a pure-social game if you want to get anywhere or have any real fun. There is only so much you can do as single player.

However you are incorrect on the grouping. There are a large number of missions where you are required to group, and as I said playing solo in the game isn't going to get you anywhere fast.
Re:What a surprise... by asink · 2006-07-16 09:14 · Score: 1

This is one of the goonswarm videos showing how you can decimate the combined forces of some of the strongest alliances in the game through sheer numbers and teamwork. Quite a sight and very pretty footage coming from this engagment imho.

--
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll"
Re:What a surprise... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 09:16 · Score: 1, Informative

Hrm, actually, there's more 'kill' mission types than any other - by a factor of about 2/3rds. The newbie agents are there to give people that don't want to do all out combat another choice. You can skip those and go right to agents that are almost exclusively 'kill', 'trading', 'mining/manufacturing', or 'courier' types. (not technically what they're called, but you get the point)

No grouping!? I'm trying to understand how that could even be experienced... You can stay strictly solo if you want - oh wait - there's no way you can unless you start your own one man corp - which is nothing a fresh player in his/her first days can do. Takes mebbe a week to do so if you've played before. Usually the newbie corps have several hundreds of new players and people recruiting for real corporations that actually do stuff. The newbie ones are there just to learn - and are a good place to do so - there's a lot to take in for a new player. You missed a lot, but it's not surprising given the level of complexity and amount of content in the game. Most at least give it a fair shake tho. *sniffs*

The lowest I've seen the playercount has been 12-14k lately...
Re:What a surprise... by asink · 2006-07-16 09:27 · Score: 1

I have to say that I have played many sports but never enjoyed watching them. Eerily watching eve videos is absolutely fascinating, if not for their entertainment value, but to find what the true purpose of the video is ( i.e. fun, propaganda/promotion, smear, recruitment, ego, etc).

You can also pick up a few lessons from videos, and figure out how different setups work with or against another. And hey, there's always the ability to point at a video from a friendly or hostile source and saying "that's my corp mate!".

The great thing I've found about pvpers in eve can be just for the fun of it and both sides walk away having had a ton of fun and with greater respect for the other. Perhaps it's related to the style of gameplay, but I've found that the general eve population seems to be more mature and friendly.

--
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll"
Re:What a surprise... by Odin_Tiger · 2006-07-17 03:05 · Score: 1

* All the 'missions' are 'take this item from here to here, and talk to this person'.
You were doing the wrong mission types (using the wrong agent). I'm guessing Administrative or Legal. If you use a Security or Internal Security agent, it's ALL kill missions. There are also agents for mining and item manufacturing, if that's your thing.

* Maybe there's the occasional 'kill the pirate' (but they're way too easy). No grouping (definately no group missions0,
Again, using the wrong agent. If you take the time to get Connections skill to level 3 (roughly 1 - 3 days training time for most people), you should be able to get to Level 3 agents fairly quickly (say, 8 - 16 hours running Level 2 missions. Closer to 8 I'd guess). Those are challenging for anything less than Battleship pilots or very experienced Battlecruiser pilots. Level 4 missions, the next step up, are usually impossible to very difficult even for BS pilots. You generally need a gang to take them on.

* and you rarely if ever actually see another player.
Then you didn't look very hard. You have only to open your map and select the option to color stars by number of pilots in system. Systems like Jita, Rens, and Saila regularly see hundreds of pilots on at the same time, with many more in surrounding systems. You don't have to be in high-sec, either. Places like Hibi -> R3-K7K area (0.5 -> 0.0 security) are very high population, as well as major outposts for all alliances, clear to the edge of the galaxy. If you didn't see many players, it's probably because you went off solo. You need to join a corp and put yourself where the action is if you want to see Eve for all it really can be.

--
Unpleasantries.
Re:What a surprise... by C0rinthian · 2006-07-17 06:53 · Score: 1

Eve does not spoon-feed you. Missions are a easy way to learn the mechanics of the game and make a little cash, nothing more. If you want player interaction, go find it. With 20k concurrent users, it can't be that hard to find people. (I know I had no problems when the playerbase was half that)

Also, alliance politics can be some of the most entertaining (and sometimes infuriating) stuff I've ever run into in gaming. All the drama that Curse Alliance generated was priceless.
Re:What a surprise... by Andy+Dodd · 2006-07-25 13:29 · Score: 1

I wish I could easily find the link to one of the GoonSwarm propaganda videos.

It was basically 200 people zerging with Velators. (In EVE, that's the noob ship for one of the four races) They did some SERIOUS damage despite using a horde of basically week-old (or less) characters. :)

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retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?

;ljk by araczynski · 2006-07-16 05:16 · Score: 0

hmmm, watching people play games on tv....

do people have so little life left?

i'm a pc gamer, but man, i'd rather go to the dentist.

but then again that's my same sentiment for 99.5% of tv shows, and especially sports.

--
sigs suck

Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:17 · Score: 0

Everything there, including the regular videos, are in Windows Media format. No thanks.

Most popular nerd sport by krell · 2006-07-16 05:19 · Score: 1

Where's the Natalie Portman Grits-pool Freestyle?

--
Where were you when the voynix came?

It's better than network shows... by Bender0x7D1 · 2006-07-16 05:19 · Score: 1

Even with the low video quality and the odd buffering issues it is still better than most of the shows that are on the networks right now. Actually, I'm listening to the commentary as I'm posting this and it's better than listening to College Football on the radio. Sure, that's just my opinion, but I can't stand most of the shows that play during prime time.

Give it a try. The worst that can happen is you waste a few minutes of your time. Better than watching another episode of Survivor: New Jersey or Big Brother 65.

--
Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. by Taevin · 2006-07-16 05:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is not just watching "some people play EVE." These are quick, 5-on-5, tournament style battles between alliances. I really don't see any difference between that and watching a physical sporting event. "Watching people play EVE" sounds like "watching football players practice for the game," which is not what this is.

If you haven't or don't play EVE, it might be hard for you to enjoy (unless you just like watching space ships blow each other up ;). For those of us that do play, it's fun to have open in another window to watch the alliances we fight with every day get their asses handed to them by a relatively unknown one.

Re:Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. by Golias · 2006-07-16 06:38 · Score: 0, Troll

This is not just watching "some people play EVE." These are quick, 5-on-5, tournament style battles between alliances

So... It's "watching 10 people play EVE."

Wow. That sounds way better. It would be exactly like being the 11th person to show up at a 10-computer LAN party, only you can't talk to the players while you watch them, none of them know you, and the only fridge to raid is your own.

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Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. by lav-chan · 2006-07-16 10:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

As opposed to exactly like being the (however many persons in a football game + 1) person to show up at a football game... only you can't talk to the players while you watch them and none of them know you and the only fridge to raid is your own.

I mean it doesn't sound particularly incredible to me either, but it's no different from any other dumb-ass competitive sporting event. Bunch of people you don't really know competing in a game against a bunch of other people you don't really know, and some guy narrating it. Certainly sounds more entertaining than watching people play cards.
Re:Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. by Golias · 2006-07-16 11:42 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Except for the fact that seeing a great wide receiver dash across the field at Olympic-sprinter speeds to catch a ball a split-second before getting drilled in the ribs and hanging on to it is exciting. To see a video game character shoot another video game character... not so much.

As for watching people play cards: There's a reason why those shows are all on tiny cable stations, instead of prime time broadcasts on Monday nights.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. by lav-chan · 2006-07-16 12:03 · Score: 1

Except for the fact that seeing a great wide receiver dash across the field at Olympic-sprinter speeds to catch a ball a split-second before getting drilled in the ribs and hanging on to it is exciting.

Sure isn't exciting to me, i think it's pretty much some of the most boring 'entertainment' out there. I'd rather watch Passions.

As for watching people play cards: There's a reason why those shows are all on tiny cable stations, instead of prime time broadcasts on Monday nights.

Yeah, well, i don't think anybody was really suggesting that video games were destined for prime-time broadcast television.

Maybe someone can help me by vix86 · 2006-07-16 05:25 · Score: 1

I'm not trying to troll, but maybe someone can help me by explaining what is so "incredible" about EVE? I played it once back when a trial was opened to the public and had trouble finding anything very interesting about the game. The game was large in the sense you could go many places, but it was constant flying back and forth. I never got far enough to do PvP, but I can't imagine it being heart stopping. Outside of fighting, you were stuck trading, mining, and building.

Is this just one of those games that caters to a group of players that are into the space war & trading style games, instead of fantasy style (WoW, et al.)? And this group of players just happens to be decently large and prevalent where I browse?

Re:Maybe someone can help me by Taevin · 2006-07-16 05:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

Outside of fighting, you were stuck trading, mining, and building.
Absolutely, in the same sense that Doom, outside of fighting, was just running to the next area and picking up powerups. Perhaps it just caters to players with a longer attention span that want to feel like they are accomplishing something (even if it is in a virtual world) - like every MMORPG.

One of the nice things about EVE is that you can focus almost exclusively on one type of gameplay that you like. Want to mine and build stuff? Go ahead! In most other games if you wanted to do this, you'd have to be a fighter as well to go get experience and materials to support your skills and craft. In EVE, skill training is real world time based, not play time based. So to mine, you just need to train up to pilot a mining ship and use some mining lasers. Now personally, I don't really understand why you would want to mine all day long (even though I do have a mining/building character to build ammo and ships for myself), but again, there's no reason why I should ever have to bother with that. You can be entirely self sufficient by only fighting, making money through running missions or whatever, and buy all of your equipment off the market.

So in that sense, it's no different from Doom. Between fighting, it's just traveling to the next solar system and maybe stopping to buy some 'powerups' along the way... it just takes quite a bit longer on the traveling part :) But for many of us, the extra wait is worth it to fight other players in an environment that can take quite a bit of skill beyond just keeping your crosshairs over your enemy while you unload a clip.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:52 · Score: 1, Interesting

Well, simple:

Eve has one server for all players. the peak concurrent user count was 26000, in one "shard".
Eve is incredibly complex game, and very well balanced.
well, and these things result in a very good PvP environment.

For features go visit the webpage, because eve has come a long way since its release.
Some Namedropping:
Player built Outposts(spacestations) and smaller strucktures.
ships in all flavors (frigates,cruisers, covert ops, battleships, carriers, logistics, support,transports, mortherships, titans...)
most of the space is ruled by player alliances and not npcs.
The economy is completly player run begining with minerals->components->ships, outposts, whatever.

and you can be a Pirate. what else could you want ;)
Re:Maybe someone can help me by aGreenAgent · 2006-07-16 05:52 · Score: 1

What's so incredible is that the game doesn't tell you what to do. There aren't "career options" that the developers give you - PvP, mining, and missions are just the common ones that everybody comes up with (the developers recently said that when the game was released, they had no intention of having mining be a career - the players just did it). If you want to do anything in the game, you have to invent the ability to do it. There are lottery managers, casino managers, industry tycoons, bookies, etc. etc. The developers NEVER planned the ability to be this stuff - they just made a game where they didn't tell you any career options, you have to invent them yourself and make it happen.

Eve also has the unique feature in that it's time based leveling, not action based. Some people don't like it, but it has one advantage in that since there is no level cap, starting a new character means you have to wait the (years probably) time to train up the skills again. The good thing about this is that people are basically tied to their characters. People have reputation, commitments, etc. etc. You really get to know people really well (everybody in my corp, I could tell you their wife's name, where they live, etc.), and for this reason, watching these people you know battle on EveTV, with professional announcing and stuff, is really fun.

Admittedly, a lot of people don't like it when a game doesn't give them a storyline, and there's no "leveling" - which is why a lot of people call it boring. But there are plenty of people whose imagination is just captured by the thought of not having developers tell you what you can and can't do.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Usagi_yo · 2006-07-16 05:56 · Score: 1

It's fun, but once you realize that the people who run the game, also play *alot* you start to feel cheated out of the high end content. I don't really blame them, they orchestrate the publicity in the mmorpg world pretty good (this is one example). There is also a concerted effort and ongoing patches that are driving the game ever and ever more towards PvP -- which makes the safer aspects of the game less fun and much less profitable. If you like individual or "solo" play, you can forget about experiencing the full aspect of the game. On the other hand if you have a group of friends who all are willing to start you can run a corporation and have a better chance of experiencing the full aspect of the game, but, there is alot of content that simply has not scaled up to the current subscription numbers, and it runs about 1 year behind in content upgrades.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:05 · Score: 1, Informative

For one thing- Eve has a free 2 week trial program. If you want to try it, google for it. No CC needed.

The thing about eve is the PVP. It's one of few games that dieing can actually cost you something. Or everything. You can spend your entire eve career never entering PVP. I wouldn't suggest it.

I would suggest getting a few months in the game, and then trying to engage in combat with another player. You won't have a problem finding someone to fight. And when you notice your heart rate going thru the roof, and your hands shaking from the exitement you'll understand why some people enjoy this game so much.

A few more notable things about eve.
Players shape the face of the world. In the last 2 weeks we have destroyed a 1500 player alliance, taken their territory, and been invaded by another alliance. (corporations are eve version of clans, alliances are groups of corps)
The world map is controlled by the players for the most part. They own, and build up infastructure in their territory and then try and hold that territory against invaders.
In eve, Most of the economy is run by players. And built by players.
In eve, Your character doesn't level. You instead have skills which level individually. The nice thing about this is that the skills train in REAL TIME. That means that you can't jump into the game and grind your way to the top in 2 months. But it also means that your skills are constantly increasing even when you are offline.

It's an adults MMO. It's harsh, hard and complex in a way that can't be written. But it's also rewarding in a way that most games only wish they were.

Whats the end game in WOW? Instance raiding? In eve, there is no end game, but you could call it end game to form an alliance, build a capital ship fleet, conquer a part of space, build a space station, start industrial operations and try and take over the galaxy. For a start.

-Locke DieDrake in game.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Tlosk · 2006-07-16 06:16 · Score: 1

The world is littered with throw away titles, they vary in quality from craptacular to superlative, but the common thread is they're good for a day, a week, perhaps even a few months, then you are done with them and there's not much interest in replaying them. Then there is that small subset that are not throwaway, that are able to hold people's interest indefinately. These invariable get the rave comments from fans, because they contain a depth of interaction that often goes beyond the developer's intentions and contains emergent qualities. Qualities that depend on the participants and what they choose to do.

At the same time though, what makes the title so great often isn't immediately apparent to neophytes, it's only once you have some familiarity with everything that's available for you to do that you begin to appreciate the depth and durability of the mechanics. Another way of looking at it is if you're a casual player, you might want to put less stock in raves from serious players. It's the same reason I never trust any foods that people tell me I absolutely have to try or are described as a "delicacy" because invariably it's something quite foul to the untrained palette. Something that goes far beyond everyday cuisine, I've heard people say that with tripe soup (stomach lining), beef tongue on rice, fried sheeps balls, snails, stinky cheeses, etc.

I guess what I'm getting at is don't confuse the gusto of a connaisseur with the mass appeal of pablum. McDonald's is popular because few people find the food foul, and at the same time it's rare to get someone raving about the food and recommending it to their friends as a must try.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 08:43 · Score: 0

Well, I remember back playing Elite, and the fighting in that game got tedious. I was more interested in the trading part. The fighting just gave me something to spend my earnings on (upgrading my ship). I haven't played EVE, though, so don't know how involved the trading and building aspects actually are.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by X.25 · 2006-07-16 08:57 · Score: 1

I'm not trying to troll, but maybe someone can help me by explaining what is so "incredible" about EVE? I played it once back when a trial was opened to the public and had trouble finding anything very interesting about the game. The game was large in the sense you could go many places, but it was constant flying back and forth. I never got far enough to do PvP, but I can't imagine it being heart stopping. Outside of fighting, you were stuck trading, mining, and building.

Is this just one of those games that caters to a group of players that are into the space war & trading style games, instead of fantasy style (WoW, et al.)? And this group of players just happens to be decently large and prevalent where I browse?

If you need to ask this after trying EVE - it's not game for you, I'd say.

It is extremely complex, and extremely addictive.

Death in EVE can actually cost you a lot, if you forget to set everything (clones) right.

Number of skillpoints means f*ckall, unless you're looking at 1v1 PvP fight. And even then, it's not guaranteed that high-skill player will win. Tactics and planning mean everything in EVE.

If you're in high-sec space, you'll be seeing miners, traders, mission runners and similar types.

If you have balls to move to low-sec space, you'll be seeing a LOT more action (pirates, better rats in belts, faction spawns, gate camps, carriers, etc).

Most of the fun can be found in 0.0 space.

But what you need the most is - patience. Everything in EVE requires planning. Your trips, your mining session, your hauling sessions, ship fitting - everything. So, no patience = no fun.

EVE is simply... brilliant.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by vix86 · 2006-07-16 08:58 · Score: 1

I suppose the 2 week trial that I messed around with a few years ago doesn't really do the game justice enough.

Based on the replies, the things I found very dull (mining, trading, building, etc), seem to gain more depth the longer you play the game. The 2 week trial just barely allowed the player to brush the surface of the game. Based on the replies, the way people place EVE reminds me a lot of UO (old UO, pre-Renaissance), it is just the setting is different.

And from being a fan of UO, I can understand it everyone says the game caters to a different crowd. Its not a game for the EQ-style item hunting player and end game raiding. Shoot, the game even has the high-risk factor of being killed that UO had.

Maybe one day they'll open planetary exploration on EVE and add even more depth to the game.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by vix86 · 2006-07-16 09:04 · Score: 1

As I mentioned in a reply above, EVE reminds me of "UO in Space" (pre-Ren) after hearing peoples comments on the game. I think the reason why the game never got interesting in the trial was due to the fact that two weeks really isn't enough time to really get in depth, in my opinion. It just barely brushes the surface in multiple areas. It introduces the concepts of trading, building, training, and fighting, and thats about it.

UO in Space, that has a nice ring to it. :)
Re:Maybe someone can help me by asink · 2006-07-16 09:46 · Score: 1

I was a UO junkie, and I have to say that eve brought me back to MMORPGs. I also was actually able to enjoy the PVP (which is actually not all griefing, and griefers can be avoided) and loot/weath systems, and social aspects of the game.

The big selling point and reason that people don't like Eve is that there is a huge amount of depth and not a whole lot of direction after the "primer" tutorial missions. There are no "rails" or path and there is no "winning eve". That said, there are tycoons fixing markets, there are researchers, miners, industrialists, pirates, anti-pirates, and a myriad of social structures/events/operations(like the IPO of a space outpost) which expand outside of the game. This is to speak nothing of the gameplay or graphics, which are also pretty fun :-).

--
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll"
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 10:46 · Score: 0

You might be interested to know that CCP was founded by ex-UO developers. That was a long time ago. But the obvious influence is still there.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by TinyManCan · 2006-07-16 12:00 · Score: 1

Some people _only_ play the trading and production aspects in eve.
The production chain for some of the more advanced products in Eve (tech2 Heavy Assault Cruisers) for example require 10s of Billions of isk (isk == in game cash) and a variety of parts and pieces sourced from other players across the galaxy.
It would be possible to run a character who never leaves the station, instead using your trading, research, production and retail skills to make a mint with no danger.
Or you could pilot a gigantic freighter from startbase to starbase trading resources and building a commercial empire. Remember the entire market (for the most part) in Eve is driven by the players.
It has a free two week trial, so no reason not to give it a go.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Grismar · 2006-07-17 00:45 · Score: 1

Like most games, EVE is not a game for everyone. It's too specific in flavour, not at all suited for so-called 'casual play', has a steep learning curve and is very unforgiving with respect to PvP play. However, some of those traits are actually what make it great for those of us that do like it. Unlike most MMO's, where the penalty for loss in a PvP situation is some experience, some gear or simply a relocation of your character, EVE has truly harsh penalties. Dying in EVE to most players means losing a substantial part of your wealth, in some cases half of it or more even. As a result, PvP can evoke powerful emotions. People -care- about losing, like you would care about losing a high stakes poker game.

The steep learning curve can be another strong point. For the player with more brains than brawn, EVE can be very rewarding, since the game offers a lot of opportunities to make it big on politics, or actual trade (that is P2P trading, instead of "MMO Elite" P2NPC trading). As someone already mentioned, most of the economy of EVE is player-based. Anything worth buying has either been constructed or collected by players and to get the best gear in the game, impressive chains of collection, construction and transportation have to be in place. Getting the best ships in the game means purchasing an item that has parts that may have gone through the hands of 100's of players. Add to that an impressive lack of inflation without developer interference and EVE has a unique environment for trade, without tying it in to real world currency (like Entropia Universe and others do). Efficient acquisition, assembly and trade of all these goods requires well-organized groups of players, with access to vast resources, offering ample opportunity for politics and war.

As nnother result of the immense amounts of information available to the player, which they'll need to sift through to get what they want, a large number of player-built sites has appeared that involve players in shaping the way the game works. Though CCP remains firmly in control, these sites add invaluable parts to EVE gameplay that make the experience of playing it more rewarding and give people the feeling they're involved in gameplay as well as game development.

Finally, CCP itself loves both the game and the community. It's the most candid game developer on the market as far as I know. It discusses planned changes to the game in very early stages (and I mean discuss, not just announce), it takes user feedback seriously and not unimportant: most of the developers love to play the game. Add to that spennding on extra's like an EVE Online magazine (EON), an EVE Online tradeable cardgame, good support for player initiatives like EVE Radio (24h on-topic music radio) and most recently this EVE TV and I think it should be clear why EVE is unique.

Whether you like it or not, however, remains a matter of taste. That's good. It means EVE Online is not bland.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by C0rinthian · 2006-07-17 07:13 · Score: 1

There is also a concerted effort and ongoing patches that are driving the game ever and ever more towards PvP
The entire game revolves around PvP, so it's pretty hard to make it more PvP centric than it already is.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by C0rinthian · 2006-07-17 07:36 · Score: 1

Finally, CCP itself loves both the game and the community. It's the most candid game developer on the market as far as I know. It discusses planned changes to the game in very early stages (and I mean discuss, not just announce), it takes user feedback seriously and not unimportant
Part of the reason this is possible is the community. Generally the feedback from Eve players has a higher signal to noise ratio. Eve requires intelligence to be successful. Stupid people get weeded out very quickly, and the established community is of a higher caliber than you would find in other MMO's.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by aafiske · 2006-07-17 08:27 · Score: 1

It's a fair question, and in answer, it's not just WoW with lasers.

It is more balanced, and deeper. It's, as far as I know, unique amongst mmorpgs in the player-driven content area. The markets are all player-driven. You can build empires out in deep space, and have them shown as your territory. You can claim it from others. You can use strategy, instead of just tactics. Winning and losing matter, it's not just a respawn. Being there for your teammates matters. It's absurd to think of rescuing someone in WoW. Just have them die and respawn and run to join you. If someone suicides to save the team ... most games, who cares. Just rez them. In Eve, they really gave something to help out their teammates.

In Eve, things matter. I was involved in rescuing some miners trapped in unsafe space (where all the good minerals are, of course) the other day. We made backup plans for our carrier to escape, should the battle go wrong. In the end, we mustered enough force to intimidate the other fleet to back away, so we could escort our miners out.

It's funny, because the thought of getting ganked and losing exp/money/items in a game always seemed dumb to me. I wasn't there to waste my time and give other people free stuff. But in Eve, it's different somehow. Partially because you can use your brain to avoid death, instead of just grinding up to get the uber weapon. Partially because you can actually take revenge and stand a chance of winning, even if you didn't grind a dozen instances to get the best gear.

It is the closest thing to an alternate world out there, although to be fair I haven't tried second life. If that sounds appealing, try it out. But it's not for everyone.
Re:Maybe someone can help me by Andy+Dodd · 2006-07-25 13:34 · Score: 1

How long ago was that?

I played from the start, and quit in approximately a year. For its first year, EVE was a great concept with an utterly crap implementation.

Somehow I decided to give it a second chance, mainly because it seemed to be winning so many awards... It's like a whole different game, and I'm actually having FUN now. The addition of all sorts of new ship classes so as to make the game battleship-dominated has been a huge help.

--
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?

Watching other people play videogames? by mouse_clicker · 2006-07-16 05:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Seriously, when has that ever been fun?

Re:Watching other people play videogames? by cathector · 2006-07-16 05:55 · Score: 1

It's pretty fun in person, i love sitting around the living room watching roomies beat each other up or whatever on the screen. We even watch each other play nethack, altho sometimes that's less spectating than "Agile" gameplay. But i grant you, a video feed- less appealing.
Re:Watching other people play videogames? by shish · 2006-07-16 11:05 · Score: 1

When has watching a bunch of guys kick a ball back and forth been fun? IMHO never, but it's still one of the most popular activities in the country...

--
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Re:Watching other people play videogames? by Cornflake917 · 2006-07-17 07:47 · Score: 1

It's not watching people play video games that's fun. It's watching people REALLY good at video games that could be fun, (assuming you know enough about the game to determine what is really good).

If you played soccer all your life, you will probably like to watch the world cup simply because you are impressed by the skill of the best players in the world. Furthermore, by watching a sport at a professional level you might be able to pick up some new moves to try out on the field when you play. This is no different with video games.

If you never played EVE before, or if you played and thought it was boring as hell (like me), of course it's not gonna be fun. But I'm sure it is for some people.

--
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Re:Watching other people play videogames? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-17 09:20 · Score: 0

You just about set a record there for geekiness by watching your flatmates play nethack. I however watch complete random strangers play nethack on devnull. There can be nothing geekier.

Yes by xigxag · 2006-07-16 05:39 · Score: 1

It's probably not going to happen with EVE Online, but it will happen one day. Actually, it's already happened (in a sense) with Texas Hold-Em. One of its primary attractions is that, often, anyone from anywhere can join the tournament. If you join, you might not get far, But even so, if not you, then people you know or have interacted with will be playing at world-class levels. The illusion that only a bit of luck and practice separates you from the upper echelons is a large part of what keeps the fish biting in a competitive poker.

Further, there's a whole untapped market of people with asthma, with skeletal defects, with good fine-motor skills but poor gross-motor coordination who are excluded from participating in traditional sports at competitive levels. Logic will cause them to gravitate to these third millennium sporting activities.

--
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.

In Reruns by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:42 · Score: 0

No, the show is LIVE atm, the only thing that has been repeated is one of the features due to some competitors pulling out.

No surprise... by Bob_Robertson · 2006-07-16 05:48 · Score: 1

Funny. XINE opened the stream perfectly.

That's the problem with standards. Stick with one long enough, it gets reverse engineered. ...until reverse engineering is made illegal, that is.

--
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics

EVE by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:49 · Score: 1, Informative

It's not like this is intended to appeal to non-players. For those of us who play it, it's fun to see which of the big alliances prevail in what is essentially a PVP competition. I have no interest in watching WoW recordings, because I don't play it, and I assume the same would be true of people who don't play EVE.

EVE is great but it's very difficult to get any kind of enjoyment out of it when you play by yourself. The fun starts when you join an aggressive 0.0 (lawless space) corp. It's beyond me what the empire carebears play this game for at all, given how immensely boring empire is.

Re:EVE by Darlantan · 2006-07-16 12:10 · Score: 1

Gee, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that 'empire carebears' can't _get_ to 0.0 space UNLESS they join some huge alliance. There are plenty of small corps that would like to get into low-sec space, but unless they cleared up the whole "Access to 50% of the galaxy requires travel through 1 of 4 bottlenecks" deal, they don't stand a chance. This is one of the big reasons I quit playing, along with the fact that the entire game became a grind. It's a pretty game, and it's interesting, but the game is basically dominated by old characters with tons of skills (those who have played since the beginning and were never dumb enough to fly without a quality clone), and old corps/alliances who set up shop in a chokepoint and claimed a massive chunk of space. They're effective to the point that (at least when I played), a trip to 0.0 was a gauranteed podding 50% or more of the time. Not so bad if you lose a shuttle, but the blockades there could stop BSes.

Tell me when they've re-routed paths so that the big parts of 0.0 have multiple entryways. Also, let me know if they ever fixed the POS fuel consumption bug. Losing a well-equipped POS to that was my final straw, and I won't even consider coming back until those two conditions are met.

--
Fill in your four or five-letter word of wisdom here _ _ _ _ _.
Re:EVE by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 13:17 · Score: 0

"Maybe it has something to do with the fact that 'empire carebears' can't _get_ to 0.0 space UNLESS they join some huge alliance."

That's not entirely true, but you can't expect to waltz into space controlled by an --alliance-- of several corporations with just 'one small corp'. Now if 5 or 6 of those small corps were to form an alliance of their own, then move into 0.0 space fully expecting to lose ships (like everyone already in 0.0 expects to happen continuously) then they certainly would have a fighting chance. Problem is that's a lot of hard work, it's much easier to whine on the forums.
Re:EVE by C0rinthian · 2006-07-17 07:47 · Score: 1

Gee, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that 'empire carebears' can't _get_ to 0.0 space UNLESS they join some huge alliance.
Look at the population of empire space vs. the population of 0.0 space. I don't think there is any question which has the advantage of numbers. However, if those in empire can't organize a force to go take 0.0 space, then they don't deserve to be there.

The only thing keeping you out of 0.0 is yourselves. You want access, go get it.
Re:EVE by aafiske · 2006-07-17 08:08 · Score: 1

You sound very bitter. I am part of a small corp, and I've been into 0.0 with them and solo repeatedly, without permission from the owners. It's really not that hard. I'm only a 6 month char. Maybe you played years ago on the older map that had more chokepoints, but things have changed.

And whining about people who've played longer than you... please. Eve is unique amongst MMORPGs in that even new characters are useful. How useful are you as a lvl 10 priest in a raid? You wouldn't be allowed in a million years. In Eve, you're told to stick on a scrambler and a webber and join the fleet, you're now a tackler. Or slap on a couple rocket launchers and autocannons and join a wolfpack of frigates. You can easily down battleships of characters two years older than you. The only thing preventing you from killing an older character is your own attitude.

Nnooooo! by Voltageaav · 2006-07-16 05:49 · Score: 1

I'm sitting there, watching EVE TV and chatting with my friends in game when all the sudden, someone posts "EVE TV just got put on Slashdot." I have friends in both LV and IAC and they are both in the running for 1st! All I want to do is watch the tournament! Why would someone go and try to ruin my day by crashing their servers?

--
Someone save me from this sanity.

Re:Nnooooo! by Ice+Tiger · 2006-07-17 02:39 · Score: 1

Yes but MC are going to take the prize!

Hans Roaming

Body Count Inc
Mercenary Coalition

--
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."

Reruns? Nah.. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:53 · Score: 0

There are no reruns today, the fights are all live as they have been since Friday. As well as some pre-recorded behind the scenes looks at CCP and some of the players in the game.

am i the only one? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 05:55 · Score: 1, Interesting

i'm actually waiting for more games to broadcast live... of course it would help if the game was something i was interested in. it's an opportunity to see the best player's skills and learn from their techniques. (yeah, I know player demos are a good way of doing that too). and i can also see people playing in real world situations where there is added pressure (you think you are good enough to play in front of hundreds to millions of viewers in competition style play). i think i could be entertained just as much by game related competitions as i could by sports related competitions (or even faky faky stuff like american idol or survivor).

Why is the timezone kept secret? by Gnavpot · 2006-07-16 05:57 · Score: 1

From the program:

Schedule Day 3. July 16th 14:50 Start of Broadcast 15:00 The Five vs Pure. 15:20 I R O N vs Dusk and Dawn 15:40 OPUS Alliance vs Veritas Immortalis 16:00 Red Alliance vs Fate Weavers

Nowhere on that page do they tell what timezone the schedule is based on.

Nowhere on that page do they tell what time it is right now in the timezone the schedule is based on.

What is this schedule useful for? Amateurs.

Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by TheKidWho · 2006-07-16 06:00 · Score: 1

It's all GMT... any eve player would know that ;-)
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:00 · Score: 0

The third sentence:
"Coverage is between 15.00 and 21.00 GMT on the 14th, 15th and 16th, and then 21st 22nd and 23rd of July."
Found a timezone?
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by ptbarnett · 2006-07-16 06:01 · Score: 1

What is this schedule useful for? Amateurs.
It's useful for the viewers they expect: other EVE players. And every EVE player that has been playing more than a few days knows that EVE's timezone is GMT.
If you are currently in the Eastern Daylight Savings timezone, subtract 4 hours from the above to yield your local time. Everyone else should be able to figure it out from that.
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by rolfp · 2006-07-16 06:05 · Score: 1

It is gametime. The intended audience is Eve players and since it is a single shard in london all times is GMT (no daylight saving time)
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:08 · Score: 0

And the schedule page says it (above the schedule)...
Coverage is between 15.00 and 21.00 GMT on the 14th, 15th and 16th, and then 21st 22nd and 23rd of July. To view the coverage tune in free by clicking the link below.
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:13 · Score: 0

The time is EvE time, which is GMT.

Eve tv isn't really meant for anybody but eve players so probably won't be interesting to anybody who does not know how the game works.
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by elliottwave · 2006-07-16 06:47 · Score: 1

ROFL you think only amatuers can understand that GMT is a globaly accepted time? Obviously if the time isnt stated what zone its in then its safe to assume its in GMT!

incredible!
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 09:00 · Score: 0

Most people who have not played Eve do not understand the planning, coordination, and strategy that goes into playing the game. Their used to the EQ2s and WoWs of the world.

In eve, on the hotbar there is the time in GMT to standardize everything so players will always coordinate their meetings and plans around a common time instead of constantly doing the EST/PST time conversions and such.

Also it's interesting to note that on the hotbar you will find an ingame calculator... There is also a web browser, etc.

If you haven't played EVE at least a couple of weeks, it's understandable why you wouldn't 'get things' that go on in this game.

All other MMOs go down a path. Eventually this path meets into one final destination. This final destination is the end-all-be-all of MMOs. And to those of us who play EVE, we understand that the final destination is EVE Online.

ALL other MMOs were created to prepare you for EVE Online.
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Copine · 2006-07-16 09:43 · Score: 1

Coverage is between 15.00 and 21.00 GMT on the 14th, 15th and 16th, and then 21st 22nd and 23rd of July. To view the coverage tune in free by clicking the link below.

That was on the page linked to in the article, second paragraph. Amateur
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Gnavpot · 2006-07-16 10:22 · Score: 1

ROFL you think only amatuers can understand that GMT is a globaly accepted time? Obviously if the time isnt stated what zone its in then its safe to assume its in GMT!
No, it is never safe to assume that a time is GMT unless it is stated. Most of the time a lack of timezone info only indicates that the writer did not expect that someone could be living in another timezone than himself. Quite often, that writer lives in a timezone which is 4-6 hours behind GMT.
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by jeffmeden · 2006-07-16 11:09 · Score: 1

You're right. It should have read:

Schedule
Day 3. July 16th
14:50 Start of Broadcast
15:00 The Five vs Pure.
15:20 I R O N vs Dusk and Dawn
15:40 OPUS Alliance vs Veritas Immortalis
16:00 Red Alliance vs Fate Weavers
17:57 Slashdotted!!! OMGWTFBBQ!!!!11
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Grismar · 2006-07-17 00:29 · Score: 1

It's a space game. OFCOURSE it's UTC... (which is the same as GMT, in case you're wondering)
Re:Why is the timezone kept secret? by Xepherys2 · 2006-07-17 03:46 · Score: 1

Oh Snap! So you're saying it's mostly us world-ignorant Americans that would omit a detail as important as the timezone? Wow, impressive. At any rate, as mentioned above, the assumption is sound becacuse of the target audience. If you are in Japan and see a commercial for Jimmy John Joe Bob Ford Dealership in Georgia (USA), you can assume times advertised are meant for an audience in Georgia (USA) not anywhere else. The same goes for Eve. *sigh*

Only watched 4 1/2 minutes... by CrazyJoel · 2006-07-16 06:00 · Score: 1

what's with all these nerds talking? Where are the spaceships?

--

Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.

Re:Only watched 4 1/2 minutes... by gilberry · 2006-07-16 06:34 · Score: 0

SPOILER ALERT: THIS IS A REAL (WASTE OF) TIME ACCOUNT! Approaching 14 minutes. One team is actually called Sharks with Frikkin' Lasers. Well honestly, ALL I want to see is some sharks with frikkin' lasers. If I wanted to watch four cider drinking nancies talk about videogames I would break open the PSOne and the Tekken 2, put up four mirrors and have at it. Except without the cider. I don't care if this is a troll or off-topic. The fact of the matter is that if there were spaceships, it might be sort of fun, like watching various starship battles. As a non-gamer, that's the only appeal, and that's exactly what the New Worlds folks portrayed it as. That's not the case so far. Watching the Best Damn Sports Show Period, except English and about the nuances of a videogame. Well that's a tragedy. WAIT! 18 minutes, and we have different Brits, at least. And a set instead of a pub. Oh...disregard. They are still talking. This part is actually more like all the pregame crap before a football game or something. Btw, waaaay off topic, what the hell is ESPN doing picking a Super Bowl winner? It's July. That's as crazy as picking Chaos Empire over Red Skull! You have to have made it past 20 minutes to get that joke. I just wish somebody a) told me to be patient, and b) told me I couldn't fast forward. Oh, and c) they didn't bother doing any real editting. Apparently you have more camera control in Gran Turismo. Yeah, back to the PSOne. At least it's Sunday. Oh damn. and d) SAME EXPLOSION OVER AND OVER! I'm not a gamer. Do tons and tons of people play this game? I would literally NOT blow things up just because of that damn effect.
Re:Only watched 4 1/2 minutes... by FlameWise · 2006-07-17 00:16 · Score: 1

"News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." Ring a bell? Some of us other nerds actually like listening to those nerds talking.

Oh and "Sharks with frickin' laser beams" is a quote from "Austin Powers", sorry but if you're a Nerd you should perhaps go watch that movie once more. It's a fun movie, and a fun scene.

On the other hand, if you're one of the stray non-Nerds that amble over here every once in a while sorry, please let me point you to the http://www.news.com/ door.

GMT... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:04 · Score: 0

Well, it's probably useful for the people who play the game which are, of course, the majority of the viewers...

All times are in GMT-1 which is the ingame time, 18:04 right now.

Re:GMT... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:06 · Score: 0

No, it's GMT.

Missing Something? by Tempelherr · 2006-07-16 06:10 · Score: 1

Am I missing something? I turned it on right now, and it is just a group of brits sitting around a table in a pub. I have no clue what they are saying as every other words is bleeped out.

That's definitely an interesting MMORPG they've got there.

Re:Missing Something? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:15 · Score: 0

New fights starting right now.

To above, the schedule is based on GMT. (all the brits talking might have given you a clue) Otherwise known as EVE time. We all knew this already.
Re:Missing Something? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:15 · Score: 0

It's the "17:40 Feature: London Panel"

Now there's some more fighting :)

sport for nerds.. pfff by rev9 · 2006-07-16 06:47 · Score: 1

i can't hear these "sport for nerds" things anymore! The typical nerds sits at lot of time on his work-worn chair starring for hours on some digits.. come on guys you have to do REAL sport.. not just for your healthiness but as well to stay in balance with the life outside. so i personally think that for nerds doing sport is even more important as for other people! Give it a try, it's not that hard..

Re:sport for nerds.. pfff by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:52 · Score: 0

I am watching the sports for nerds, but i dont have a /. account.
It balances out, i think ;)

What, no trademark? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 06:55 · Score: 0

I can't believe Elgato (http://www.elgato.com) hasn't pursued a trademark on EyeTV!

Re:What, no trademark? by Urban_Mongral · 2006-07-16 07:15 · Score: 1

Its EVE TV!
Re:What, no trademark? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 12:39 · Score: 0

CLOSE ENOUGH!

Just consider what happened to Lindows.

so we'll never see poker on TV then? by YesIAmAScript · 2006-07-16 07:10 · Score: 1

Bunch of fat slobs playing and a person watching at home has a chance of beating them.

Yet there must be 20 poker shows a week (not counting multiple airings).

--
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95

Interesting idea. by HorzaSe · 2006-07-16 07:15 · Score: 1

Anyone know any other games being broadcast? Like Guildwars or WoW-battlegrounds? Would be very interesting to see w good commentary. I spose you'd need to have a small timedelay to avoid spoiling the game by "looking over the shoulder."

Not the only one by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 07:51 · Score: 1, Informative

In Germany for example there's Giga and Gamesports. http://gamesports.de/Gamesports cover Warcraft 3, Starcraft, Quake and Counterstrike matches. For example during the Electronic Sports World Cup last Month in Paris, it streamed live matches for hours. http://giga.de/Giga concentrates more about the games themselves but about 2 hours every day, they cover the matches in their Giga e-sports programm. Giga 2 is a pay for view that streams live matches of many games.

I played Eve and found it incredibly boring by spineboy · 2006-07-16 08:08 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Watched one battle....ok not too bad
second battle...yaaaaawwwwnnnnnn..

This is seriously boring, and I don't think it'll be around too long.

--
..........FULL STOP.

Re:I played Eve and found it incredibly boring by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 08:50 · Score: 0

It wont last long, since it's just for the tournament? :P
Re:I played Eve and found it incredibly boring by Cornflake917 · 2006-07-17 07:06 · Score: 1

Bah, parent should be modded informative. I played that game for 5 hours, and I don't think I got involved in a single battle. All I remember was mining asteroids and warping from system to system trying to find something interesting to do.

--
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game

first post ? by oPless · 2006-07-16 08:46 · Score: 0, Offtopic

cool stuff!

that was fun by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 08:46 · Score: 0

I had no idea what the hell was going on, but it was fun! I watched it for over an hour. I enjoyed it.

How about a little more worldly game channel by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 08:48 · Score: 0

How about a channel that plays more than just one crappy space war game or whatever. Why not branch out and put some Starcraft in there too or something?

Re:How about a little more worldly game channel by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-16 09:47 · Score: 0

This is EVE TV, a live stream made by CCP (makers of EVE Online) to enable the players to follow the newest event, the Alliance Turnaments, live.
And as such, they made it to show the Alliance Turnament and not another game.

Eve breathes through social interaction like this by asink · 2006-07-16 09:02 · Score: 1

This is really exciting, and I can say that everyone in my alliance was paying attention to it. Eve video is huge for many reasons, because you can often watch people you don't like get blown up, learn your enemy's strategies and setups, and pick up a few pointers. They are also a tremendous tool for propaganda and promotion of one's organization -- which ends up being more important than any single battle.

If you want a small peek into the number of video work being done, check out eve videos or the related http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=chan nel&channelID=29045

The winners here get "geek cred" in the eve world. The next time you see one of them in game you might hesitate(thus giving them an edge) and you may even consider joining up with them(giving them superiority in numbers/skill, and an ability to take more territory). Organizations live and die based on the resolve of their people.

The eve social angle is enormous and honestly it brought me back to MMORPGs. I happen to like the gameplay, diversity, and open-endedness of the game, but the people keep me coming back every day.

BTW, Join VSP Corp. ;-)

--
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll"

Doesn't seem to be stopping DirecTV by kkiller · 2006-07-16 09:32 · Score: 1

From Kotaku:

DirectTV and IGN have teamed up with Microsoft and a bunch of other companies to put together a new pro-gaming series that launches next year.

The Championship Gaming Series is a new professional gaming league that will air competitions exclusively on DirectTV.

Now I agree with you - watching people play video games can be atkin to viewing a paint drying contest - but something sees something in it.

decline of everything by treak007 · 2006-07-16 09:47 · Score: 1

so now, when we are not playing video games, we can relax by watching other people play video games.

--
Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does

Re:Eve breathes through social interaction like th by asink · 2006-07-16 09:51 · Score: 1

The missing link is to the related eve video forums. There are many videos which highlight different aspects of the game along with video critque and style tips. Good fun.

--
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll"

Re:Australian TV shows Nerds being CONVERTED to Sp by WilliamSChips · 2006-07-16 11:41 · Score: 1

We have just as much need for new doctors, scientists & other professionals... as we do for top athletes.

Bullshit. We actually need new doctors, scientists, and other professionals. We don't need athletes at all.

--
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.

Re:Australian TV shows Nerds being CONVERTED to Sp by magetoo · 2006-07-16 11:53 · Score: 1

A recent series of programs (possibly on SBS or ABC-TV)
shows an assembly of nerds being converted into a team
of sportspeople (most, if not all, men).

This sounds like the "FC Zulu" (?) concept. Originally from Denmark, I believe, and it ran here in Sweden as "FC Z". (The channels are/were named (Channel) "Z" and "Zulu", afaik)

It's a pretty good idea. The nerds get to watch people who are just like they are being on TV (and how often does that happen?) and the rest of the audience can laugh when they fall over. Or something. As long as you have a good balance..

It's interesting and just a bit unreal watching them go through some teambuilding excercise / gratuitous public torture, and then sit down and talk about tanks in WW2 or Trek. For some reason I don't see that in a whole lot of other shows on TV at the moment.

And it's a pretty positive show too - there's no elimination of contestants, and they all work together (in getting their asses kicked by progressively better teams). I didn't see a whole lot of moralizing, but I suppose that's up to the network and what they think will get viewers.

Watching Games by walnutmon · 2006-07-16 14:42 · Score: 1

I can definately see the appeal of something like this, though I am not familiar with EVE.

I think the basic premise is that if you actually are pretty good, you can have a chance to do so on the little screen for people to see. This adds some kind of real life goal to playing the game, as you can become "famous" or "infamous" among the other players in the world.

The problems that has always been experienced with anything like this is that people don't want to watch it, and they would sure as hell rather play. People watch sports on TV because they can't do it, or at least not nearly as well and exciting as pros, if you are interested in the sport of course. But you can play games just as well as other, generally speaking, so the idea of watching someone else do something and get better, when you could either be doing something real life related, or actually getting better in a game yourself is quite the detterent to watching this kind of thing.

I can hardly imagine that in 10 years there are any people who can say that they wished they had watched more live streaming EVE.

--
You take it, I don't want it...

It's a community effort by FlameWise · 2006-07-17 00:08 · Score: 1

What I haven't seen stressed enough here is that EvE TV is *not* an official CCP effort. These guys have set up a studio, stream servers, moderation, prerecorded features (sorry about the pub scenes *hahaha*), direction, camera people on their own.

Yes, there was some cooperation with CCP, but the LEVEL of professionalism is still very amazing considering there's noone earning money through this as far as I can tell.

That's what keeps baffling me about the EvE Community: The amount of work and money people are willing to sacrifice to provide service for the rest of the community.

Check the stats upper left corner on http://www.eve-files.com/ and tell me you're not impressed this site is neither charging nor even earning money through banner ads.

For quite a while now... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-07-17 06:17 · Score: 0

I find watching certain people play video games quite entertaining, although your tastes may vary. Still, give it a try with something like the Gradius III 100% kill rate video or something. Some of them are quite incredible...

Don't knock it until you watch a few from their reccomended videos page.

EVETV - Sport For Nerds

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