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Lead PHP Developer Quits
Jasper Bryant-Greene writes "Jani Taskinen, one of the lead developers of the Zend Engine (the engine that powers PHP), as well as a lead developer for the thread safety system and other core components of the PHP project, has quit in a relatively cryptic message to the php-internals mailing list. Jani has been involved with PHP for about 6 years and his loss will undoubtedly be a big blow for the PHP project."
Looks like someone may need to wrestle their account back
Is it just me....or does php-internals sound painful ?
Hmmmmmm
This looks like any 15 year old's "I won't be coming back here and you all suck" stormouts. The ones that happen each week, and he'll be back within a few hours.
Why is this on slashdot?
From: Jani Taskinen
Date: Thu Jul 27 20:28:45 2006
Subject: Good bye.
Groups: php.internals
I never spent 6 years with the same people, job, hobby, women, whatever...
You only need threadsafe PHP (gettext, gd, etc) if your webpage has more than 1 concurrent user.
Only pages with more than 1 visitor need to ca.. OOPS!
-Woof woof woof!
Oh my god! He used the phrase "could not care less" correctly! Obviously not an American ;-)
Harsh words, sounds like there is some personal conflict involved. Or maybe he just got tired and wanted to move on to something different. Best wishes to all involved anyways.
Unfortunate for the Zend team, but I'm sure it won't be the death of PHP. There are many other developers, and you can still run PHP sites with other engines, for instance, the Quercus engine in Cauchos Resin I'm sure there are similar modules available in the mono/.Net world and others.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Jani "sniper" Taskinen
Jani worked on the PHP core and the Zend Engine.
Jani has contributed to php.net in the following ways over the last 12 months:
* as a lead developer for Zend Engine II
* as a lead developer for TSRM (Thread Safety Resource Management)
* by testing and maintaining the build for the PHP core
* by writing/maintaining tests for the standard functions in the PHP core
* as a lead developer for gd, a core extension
* by working as a developer on imap, a core extension
* by working as a developer on session, a core extension
* by working as a developer on sockets, a core extension
* by providing occasional fixes for the testsuite distributed with PHP
* by applying maintenance fixes to the underlying libraries in bcmath, pcre and xmlrpc
* by providing tests and occasional fixes for xml
* by providing occasional fixes for apache2filter, apache2handler, apache_hooks, cgi, cli, dba, dom, iconv, informix, isapi, ldap, mcrypt, mcve, mime_magic, msql, mssql, mysqli, mysql, ncurses, oci8, odbc, openssl, oracle, pgsql, recode, snmp, soap, sqlite, sybase, tidy and tokenizer
* by writing/maintaining tests for mbstring, mhash, pcntl, pspell, shmop and wddx
* by working as a developer on bugs.php.net
Must....throw....all....toys...out....of........ pram!
If that is a legitimate message and his account hasn't been hacked then that is a top quality hissy fit! This is one of those things that will haunt him in the future as something that was posted in anger
I'm sure most people (the ones who matter) can understand why. If someone doesn't, I could not care less. Take care.
Dont know much about PHP and dont know the insides of what happens with the group but judging by the reaction I wonder if I can hazard a guess about what happened. When someone who is obviously a major driving force behind a movement of this kind quits with so much bitterness as to turn his back on his own creation, the best I can gather is he feels theres nothing left worth working/fighting for. Maybe internal politics is causing a serious strain on his ability to function and some of the fights may have wrongly undermined his credibility in the eyes of others. Its sad when people hog the limelight of someone elses hard work and alienate the people who matter for their own personal shortsighted gains. I've seen it happen all to often.
I agree that there seems to be some "personal conflict". The people who matter...and I could care less...delete my CVS...no use for it anymore...do not reply to this email...
Wow, is PHP really that hard to work on? Is he being threatened at gunpoint?? Seriously, why the sour grapes? Is this a hoax? Was his account hacked?
This is not a funny post. This is trying to be serious. What's going on with this guy? If he's just done and finished working on it, he could quit w/o the bitterness. Was he feeling squashed/trodden upon?
If PHP itself (no other factors) could do this to a guy, how much does it encourage other people to develop it?
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
Now get back in the holodeck and strip.
Maybe we should stop wondering about him. For all we know, he's got problems with other things in his life. Let's stop making assumptions about the poor guy. If I was Jani and saw all this psychoanalysis going on about me, I'd definitely tell whoever was doing it to shut the fuck up.
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
Let me get this straight. People are making pretty nasty judgments based on one terse post that may or may not be legitimate. And in that moment we forget and discount everything he has done over the past six years.
As a volunteer he gave a great deal back to the world. You call him childish. I say he is entitled to walk away without having to explain himself.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
If they deliver the code and can keep the project together with their style, then can act how they want. Linus, RMS, Theo de Raadt - they have their quirks (Linus much less than the others), but the code speaks for itself.
Since you're going as far as to question Linus suitability for his job (architecting his hobby project that conquered the world) - where's your wildly succesful open source project?
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
From reading the mirrored post above it just seems terse and upset, but not really cryptic. Cryptic is stuff like "beware of the dwarf" and "under a big 'W.'"
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
He's going to work with Adobe to rework ASP. They feel he can bring a certain *cough* level of new ideas *cough* to the project.
-tgpo
where's your wildly succesful open source project?
Huh... I made Linux-jkrise.. I once recompiled the kernel to fix some USB CDMA modem issue - does that count?
If they deliver the code and can keep the project together with their style, then can act how they want.
Actually, just a coupla' days back, I remember reading this stuff about a PHP book.
"This book, written by my colleague, Andi Gutmans, and two very prominent PHP developers, Stig Bakken and Derick Rethans, holds the key to unlocking the riches of PHP 5. It thoroughly covers all of the features of this new version, and is a must have for all PHP developers interested in exploring PHP 5's advanced features"
Zeev Suraski, Co-Designer of PHP 5 and Co-Creator of the Zend Engine
Looks like there's more than one creator of the Zend Engine... not just Jani. And that's the reason why I think inflated egos are bad in Open Source development teams.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Bah! You're reading too much into his words. As I see it, what he's trying to say is that the reasons to him leaving are personal, but obvious for some poeple involved. Also, he does not want to start pointing fingers and does not feel he owes anybody an explanation. Perhaps you see this as behaving like a primadonna, but hardly hot-headed behaviour. He doesn't insult anybody in his post, although he obviously wants to and he refrains from whining about whatever he's unhappy about.
Lemon curry???
... well I thought it was funny ;)
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
French is one of several languages that the planet/world could do without. Arabic and Hebrew are other. None of them provides capabilities beyond English, Esperanto, German or Swahili. Don't be tempted to use them. They simply divert effort that would be better applied elsewhere.
Down with diversity! Down with choice!
GNOME provides no capabilities beyond KDE. BSD provides no capabilities beyond Linux. vi provides no capabilities beyond emacs. Don't be tempted to use them. They simply divert effort that would be better applied elsewhere.
By the way, being wrong provides no capabilities beyond being dead. Don't be tempted to continue living. You simply divert effort that would be better applied elsewhere.
Wait a sec - did I miss a memo somewhere ? Last time I checked, options were good.
And have you ever tried telling a Python programmer they could use PERL? I'd happily have ten copies of Python on my server just to avoid having that debate once.
Lead developer for Zend engine of PHP quits... pandemonium and chaos ensue!
Please! Happens all the time; guy/gal works on project for a zillion years, sits down one day in front of their terminal, calls up the code, gives it a glance and goes: I can't freakin' do this anymore! I worked on one project for three years and it was blessed when I was finally released from my contract and moved on to other things. I was proud of the app, don't get me wrong, but if I had to finagle the code yet again for the umpteenth time, I was going to lose what remains of my mind.
Whatever the reason, he's gone. Move along... nothing to see here.
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Relatively cryptic? I think it couldn't be clearer.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
I don't know about anyone else, but somedays you love the project you're working on and other days you wish it would burn down, fall over and sink into the swamp.
He's probably not serious.
Summation 2
Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home!
Then why would they complain?
Burnout is a very commom symptom in all kinds of volunteer organisations, open source being one of the ones see more about on Slashdot.
The causes are quite straight-forward. When we do something for other people, we need some kind of reward. It can come in many forms - appreciation, money, reputation, status. The best rewards change over time and are a good mix of all these.
Open source projects consume people, with demands on their time, social life, professional capacity. The only rewards tend to be reputation. Depending on the invidual's personal life and other demands (family, job), they can sustain a heavy open source project for a few years, and as many as five or six. At some point, it either becomes a profession (with a wage) or a problem.
All volunteer organisations have this problem and it's exacerbated by peer pressure. If everyone else is spending 80 hours a week hacking, then it seems normal to spend 81. At some points, open source projects can seem like cults, and unintentionally adopt many cult techniques to keep people involved, whatever the personal cost.
(Those techniques include isolation from family, use of secret languages, separation from real time and real life, etc. I don't *think* any OS projects do this on purpose, though I have my secret doubts about the FSF. Just kidding, Richard!)
I've seen burnout cases so severe the persons involved were literally sick, unable to function normally any more, and needing psychiatric help. In other cases it's project-specific. I've had this on open source projects, where after five years I've just abandoned the software, telling the users, "sorry, it's not working any more".
Each person has different needs, but eventually if we don't get what we need, we get sick. Young people are especially vulnerable because they don't understand their own needs very well and neglect them easily.
The upside is that burnout is easily cured by a change of scene and some tangible rewards. Some people even come back to projects they've abandoned, but it can be very difficult. A good dose of selfishness ("what do I need in order to feel happy NOW") is always useful, and a good self-protection measure in many environments, open source groups included.
My blog
Yes, because no one's ever heard of a successful Open Source project headed by someone known for his childish rants and rash behavior.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
I found these:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=11329681 6720289&w=2 5 7711671&w=2 0 9820157&w=2
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=1153255
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=1153312
...which hint at conflict. Maybe one of those blew up in a way he didn't like. However, I don't think those really are the issues. I would guess it's something off-list. It's too bad. I have friends working at Zend. You never want to see someone so useful walk away.
I must admit that I'm impressed with the mailing list -- Jani said "don't reply" and nobody did. They're either a disciplined bunch, heavily moderated, or Jani's leaving just didn't have much impact.
-Tony
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
Maybe they don't have a problem following instructions.
He did explicitly say in no uncertain terms 'Do not reply to this email.'
Informatus Technologicus
Okay, you've accused him of:
All this from simply quitting and not wishing to be associated with a project any more? He didn't accuse anybody of anything, he didn't rant and rave, he said he was leaving and wasn't coming back. How is that anything like the attitude you describe?
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Sometimes Linus is wrong (yes, it's true) sometimes he is right. Regardless though, he makes decisions and gets shit done. If those decisions turn out to be wrong, they can be corrected later if need be.
Classic example is the Bitkeeper debacle. Linus went with bitkeeper, because it was suitable at the time. People bitched and moaned about how he could be held to ransom by the company making it. In the end, the shit *did* hit the fan, and so Linus put out Git in a matter of weeks.
If he hadn't just made the decision and instead asked what every other kernel developer thought he should do, we'd still be waiting for a choice to be made...
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Since you're going as far as to question Linus suitability for his job (architecting his hobby project that conquered the world) - where's your wildly succesful open source project?
One needs a wildly successful open source project to criticize somebody's leadership of some other wildly successful open source project?
I suppose that one would also need to be the leader of a country with population of 300 million to criticize the job performance of the US president. Or perhaps be a highly respected engineer with specialty in safety to know that the Ford Pintos bursting into flame at the slightest provocation a couple decades ago wasn't a good thing.
Please.
Ironic that a former "peacekeeper" says "Nuke"... Very lame, regardless of the reason.
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yeah, it does sound like a answering machine breakup message made after a few drinks.
Email should require a breathalyzer.
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Civilians are caught in the crossfire. That is horrible. But Israel is not purposely "attacking the civilian population" as you allege. Israel is attacking military targets that Hezbollah has purposly intermingled amongst civilians. In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians (and thereby tip off Hezbollah too) before attacks by dropping leaflets that basically say "We know there is a Hezbollah ammo dump here, flee now because we will attack soon". Hezbollah purposely endangers the civilans in Lebanon by hiding amongst them. It does this to 1) make the Israelis pause and be reluctant to immediately attack, and 2) when the Israelis do attack, Hezbollah wants to increase the civilian bodycount so they can say "See all the civilans Israel killed!".
If you want to talk about purposely "Attacking Civilians", then you should be pointing the finger at Hezbollah. They are lobbing unguided missles at Isreali cities. When they launch a missle, they can't tell in advance where it will land other than somewhere inside a city. This is indiscrimate bombing of a civlian population.
No state, including Israel, can tolerate either unprovoked attacks on its military or any attack at all on its civilian population. Hezbollah is not a state. It has no sovereign right to maintain an army or make war. Those are rights restricted to states. Any armed action at all by Hezbollah is illegal. Even if it had the right to maintain an army (which it does not) it engages in tactics that are forbidden by international law (hiding amongst civilians, purposely attacking civilians, etc). It's military arm exists for two illegal reasons : threaten Israel and intimidate other Lebanese.
If Israel stops before Hezbollah is either disarmed or destroyed, it will have a continuing military threat on its border; a threat that indiscriminatly attacks its civilian population. No reasonable state will tolerate that as an end solution.
Here is they way this should play out. The UN has already ordered Hezbollah to disarm. See UN resolution 1559. The resoluation calls for removal of Syrian troops (done), deployment of Lebanese Gov't forces in southern Lebanon, and disbanding of all Lebanese militias (meaning Hezbollah since they are the only one left). Hezbollah has refused to disband and has blocked deployment of the Lebanese Army (Hezbollah is stronger). For resolutation 1559 to be carried out, Hezbollah will have to be forecebly disarmed (by Lebanon [not going to happen], by a UN force [too squimish to happen], or by Israel [now you see what is going on]. Once Hezbollah is disarmed or distroyed, then a new stronger UN force (current UN force is a joke) or NATO force will occupy southern lebanon, and allow the Israelis to withdraw. Once the Israelis (and Hezbollah) are gone, then the Lebanese Army and Police will deploy into the south and secure the border. This is the only long term solution for peace. An immediate cease-fire and return to status-quo-ante is only a recipe for continued periodic warfare. Hezbollah must disarm or be destroyed for long term peace to have a chance.
The tone and context of Mr. Taskinen's message looks uncomfortably familiar. I've seen a number of friends suffer bouts of depression -- for some reason, particularly the bright ones. A talented guy like this has many professional options and there's no reason to exit a project in this way no matter how compelling the reasons to move on. Of course, I could be very wrong. But I would suggest that if one's friend is in such a situtation, it's definitely worth taking the time to talk with the person to see what's going on.
I don't see them complaining.
More like nobody wants to acknowledge the gigantic elephant in the middle of that particular room. If the IRC logs are to be believed this is directly related to international politics. PHP and Zend are directly tied to Israel. Jan had very real, very personal reasons for not wanting to be associated with Israelis, so he bolted. Personally I can't blame him. There's a lot of hatred towards Israel right now, and they've gone out of their way to earn it. Most likely, nobody else on the project really wants to step into that mess. The internal developers' mailing list really isn't the place for international politics, and no good will come of discussing it there.
There may be more defections in the future for similar reasons. If that becomes a real problem then it might be a good idea to move the project's home and affiliations to a more neutral country like Canada or Germany, although at the moment I don't think that Canada is full of warm and fuzzy feelings for Israel either.
Easy Online Role Playing Campaign Management
I just could not care less.
- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
As an Italian I would be honoured to be among Semitic peoples, but we happen to be indoeuropean too.
I agree that anti-semitic is horrifyingly abused, especially by the Israeli government who comprehensibly want to use a strong argument against anyone opposing them exploiting the past history of Europe. But this gradually weakens the racist connotation of the term, and gradually makes it political. The Nazis wanted to kill Jews because their leaders told them the Jews, all Jews, were the root of all evil. Now children hear the word anti-semite applied on people who criticise the bombing of Beirut. A few more years and people will start calling themselves anti-semite in the sense of anti-Israeli-government...
The funny thing, actual anti-semites are immune from all this. I never heard Israel berating Poland, where "genuine", old-style anti-semitism is still in (even though there are no more Jews left, but you don't need a brain to be racist). Not that I am an expert on Poland, but there were a few articles in the news some weeks ago. In Italy, Silvio Berlusconi is seem as more Israel-friendly than left-wing Romano Prodi, even though Berlusconi was allied to the worst and most hardline fascists in the recent election, including former terrorists, naziskins and holocaust deniers like Luca Romagnoli.
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Dude. That's a Finnish male on totally euphoric batch of Prozac, unable to contain his laughter. He's happy as a clam. You should see him when he's unhappy.
Just remember that most of these morons are pissed over the fact that they don't have anything like the talent or ability of the people they're complaining about, and for them this is as close as they'll ever get to 'payback' for the fact that they're insignificant nobodies grinding out the day in obscurity. Y'know, the same sort of people who're convinced that if it weren't for thing X,Y, and Z (oh! the unfairness of the universe!) they'd be rich, famous, and and sexually experienced with something a bit more humanoid than a RealDoll.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
That's good advice. I will also add, don't fill in the to: field until you are ready to send it. I've taken to that practice when I am writing an e-mail that has to be delicately worded. It's not that hard to get distracted and hit 'send' without thinking when your attention returns. At least if the to: is blank, you get a second chance.
"At 9:05 AM local time (06:05 CET), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and villages of northern Israel, injuring at least 8 Israelis[18]. Afterwards, a ground contingent of Hezbollah militants attacked two Israeli armored Humvees on a routine patrol along the Israel-Lebanon border near the Israeli village of Zar'it with anti-tank rockets, capturing two Israeli soldiers, and killing eight." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_ conflict)
But it supports your position a lot better to pretend that all they did was capture a couple soldiers, and Israel started the whole thing, right?
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
like civilian airports ? power stations ? sewage works ?
pretty big targets to be hit "accidentally".
In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians
And then killed them when they flee their homes in response to those warnings.
And then attacked red cross ambulances evacuating the wounded.
And attacked the UN convoys taking aid to those too frightened to move.
And the unarmed UN observers (in a bunker, apparently detroyed by precision guided weapon, after repeated requests from the UN not to hit those coordinates).
And then shelled the UN rescue effort for the observers.
Sure, Hezbolla is throwing back random unguided rockets, but the IDF does not have that excuse, they are supposedly using modern precision guided weapons, it's pretty hard to believe all these are all accidentally off-target.
Finally, today's news quote:
So, in their own words, this is defintely purposeful.
Fact is neither side cares about civilian lives.
I think many of you guys need to readjust your sense of proportionality. This guy has most likely done more to both world peace _and_ open source world than 99% of the whiners on this forum.. and now you are mocking him for not revealing some interpersonal issues and saying ill-considered things in chat *once* when obviously being out of his mind.
Consider this. That guy has
1) worked deeply on a project for six years and has just made a decision to quit it,
2) has just lost a coworker in a bit questionable series of events,
3) is obviously depressed or burned out or both,
4) is constantly under threat while serving in hostile country with no infrastructure of whatsoever and having to remain calm and peaceful while in desperate situation and underpowered,
5) has had harder than normal time in service past six months and
6) people are blaming you for not answering their *software project* emails fast enough, when you have been busy with things 4 and 5.
If you can say you have experienced even *half* of these, let alone simultaneously and are willing to come up and admit it, *then* I can take you seriously when you come and say that you didn't say anything unprintable in that situation. Maybe.
And also remember: english is not his native language. It's more than a bit hypocritical to judge someone you have not even met by his writing in *chat* in *foreign language*, especially when the chat log is spread without his consent by someone who is not willing to reveal his name, nor the context of the discussion.
http://iki.fi/zds/
Sad if it's about the current war in the ME. Nationalisim is basically nothing more than a mass-psychosis, with fanatisim and fundametalisim being the extremer variants. Conducted by a few who know each other well to have millions of people who don't know each other compete or fight.
You'd expect a high profile OSS dev intelligent enough to shake it.
The ones that deserve to be shot are Nasralla, some back-room Zionists and a few old-school fanatic muslims in Gaza and Syria. The rest would get along quite well actually. Just the other day I saw a newsfeed where an israeli arab (sitting in a cafe with his jewish friend) hit it on the spot (paraphrased): "It's allways gouverments and organisations fighting. The common people just what to live in peace, sip their cafe and play backgammon. Jews, Muslims and whomever else."
True that is.
Let's hope this crap is over soon and the maniacs fit's come to an end.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
A partial quote of the log from a trusted member of the PHP community with a timestamp not included in my quote.
http://news.php.net/php.internals/25044
I hope this settles any speculation about who is or is not a Mossad agent fabricating stories to destroy the internet.
Open dialogue is quite clearly the most fruitful approach. Obviously, an idea is not a solution if it doesn't work, and pragmatism must reign. I feel somewhat presumptuous offering solutions since I am not an expert on this topic, but rather a long time, devoted amateur. What I am proposing is that people reconsider the facts.
m
m
Hezbollah is a frightening force, no rational person would argue that Israel should not have responded to Hezbollah's attacks. The question I propose is: what Israeli response would have most benefitted Israelis? Hezbollah attacked and kidnapped Israeli soldiers and launched and handful of rockets at Israel. Most of the world condemned this action, including Saudi Arabia. When Israel started attacking, most of the Arab world held back their usual criticism for a bit. Here was great opportunity to try something different.
Since the beginnings of Israel's offensive, almost 2000 rockets have hit Israel, and 52 Israelis (33 soldiers and 19 civilians) have been killed. Does anyone actually think that there would have been more deaths and more rockets if Israel had not attacked? It looks quite clear that this attack against Lebanon has actually contributed towards increasing Israeli deaths and increasing the damage inflicted on Israel.
"Forty-five Israelis were killed in Palestinian militant attacks in 2005, the Israeli internal security agency Shin Bet has reported..." "377 Qassam rockets" were launched towards Israel. "The main reason for the decline, Shin Bet said, was the informal truce observed by some Palestinian groups."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4574720.st
To put this into perspective, Israel as a nation without the occupied territories has a population of about 6.2 million. Just over 500 Israelis (civilians and soldiers) have died from the current intifada, 2000-2005, in Israel, so about 85 people per year. So that's a murder rate of about 1.4 per 100,000 residents for Israel. There are roughly 400,000 Israelis in the occupied territories, and if you add in the Israeli deaths from the occupied territories, you get 950, or 158 per year. That makes a rate of 2.4 per 100,000 residents.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3694350.st
Now let's look at U.S crime rates for 2000 (all in per 100,000 residents):
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
California: 6.1
New York: 5.0
Georgia: 3.3
Oregon: 2.0
Connecticut: 2.9
Vermont: 1.5
So looking at murder rates, Israel is safer than Vermont. Including the occupied territories, Israel is still quite a bit safer than Connecticut or Georgia.
So why do Israel's much lower murder rates justify such drastic action? Fear is a powerful motivator, and I do not doubt that the fear of suicide bombers and Hezbollah attacks that people feel is real. So the question really is, who actually benefits from Israeli military attacks? I think that most of the 90+ percent of Israelis who support this current action do not. Throughout the world, fear mongering has proven to be a very effective means for politicians to gain and keep power, I don't think this works differently in the Middle East.