Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Patent Envisions Free Computing
Dotnaught writes "A Microsoft patent application published on Thursday shows the company contemplating free computers and software for its customers. It suggests 'a service provider such as a telephone company, an Internet service provider, or a leasing company may provide computer systems or components to users at a reduced charge or for free in exchange for targeted advertising delivery.'"
And it won't work until computers are even cheaper than they are now. I mean hell, you can't even give away unlimited internet access and still make money.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I seem to remember about a zillion companies in the 90s that did this. A good example is PeoplePC. Does this patent things have no sanity.
It's newspeak. Microsoft free, free as in prison.
Didn't People PC and a few other companies try this already...and give up on it after it didn't work?
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Hey microsoft it's the year 2000 calling.. they want their buisness plan back.
Seriously. Wasn't exactly this done already? How can they patent this?
I guess you'd have to go over the claims in great detail to find something novel here. At face value this business has been tried before.
I'm taking bets on how many minutes this'll take until it's cracked to show no ads.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
Patents are never filed because someone plans on doing something.
they're filed because someone wants to stop someone from doing something else. this is the case here. I hope it doesn't get accepted.
CompuServ + Circuit City. PeoplePC. Altavista. Walmart.
Free hardware and/or online access.
Didn't work too well last time, either. Once you let the marketing guys fingers into it, they screw it up, by pushing too much.
People give away a free service and make money on advertising. I'm sure nobody ever though of that before!
Is there some sort of prizes for most ridiculous alleged "invention" or are they just working within to destroy the whole patent system? What the hell is the invention supposed to be?
Thats what it sounds like to me.
Also sounds like a return to the old Bell system.
This is completely non-unique and there is so much prior art behind it.
Hey, let's look at qdb.us, they provided a service in exchange for adwords revenue! What difference does it make if you serve computers for ad revenue?
Not to mention the huge implication of legitimized monopolism implied in patenting a fucking business model.
+5, Truth
This shouldn't be surprising - computers have almost become as commoditized as cell phones, which are often given out for free by phone companies. I don't know if Microsoft is the best one to pull this off (I'd put my money on someone like Dell which has the infrastructure and logistics in place), but it's going to happen sooner or later.
And then charge Microsoft money.
...
Seriously, next thing you know, you'll be telling me that information just wants to be expensive and that spam is good for me.
But I'd trust Microsoft offering free hardware and software about as much as I'd trust someone "accidentally" phoning me and leaving me a message about this insider stock tip she just "happened" to pass on
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"A method of filing trivial patents out of sheer boredom."
I think patent examiners should be given a large wooden mallet to whack people who come up with this crap.
We're not helping Microsoft fast enough. So they say, "let us help you help us better". The more people are online, the better for everyone, especially a company like Microsoft. Read "What are Mr. Gates and Mr. Buffett up to?"
-- Subvert the dominant paradigm. Repeat as desired. http://ownlifeful.com/
oh god, not desktop banner ads again ... no no no ....
MORTAR COMBAT!
People are used to buying a computer and getting free applications. They simply won't be happy getting free hardware and then having a huge bill for software.
Consumers aren't that dumb, they don't like printer ink prices and use alternative brands where possible. So this idea will arouse suspicion.
Just a thought: Microsoft isn't paying for the electric bills, might they not want to sell/donate extra CPU cycles to get extra revenue/reputation?
This is patently absurd!
Seriously, consumers need a lobby just dedicated to patent law reform. First step, outlaw patenting business plans and most intellectual property. Second step, open up the process so anyone can prove prior art and throw out a patent application on those grounds. Third step, go back to requiring a working model of anything physical to be patented.
So, a patent. Wonderful. Has it occured to anyone that they might not use it? That they might not have any intention of using it? Perhaps it's just so, that if anybody tries to do it, they will have to pay royalties? Did anyone think of this before they said "stupid...never work..."?
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
My guess is Microsoft is just patenting vague advertising-revenue stuff to block others from patenting it. This does not mean Microsoft actually plans to move to advertising instead of paying for software.
Does this patent mean that only microsoft can give away computers and computer software that is paid for with advertising? As much as I would love free PCs for everybody (and microsoft could probably afford to give away free PCs) it seems to me that any company should be able to manufacture computers and computer software and give them away, then make money from advertising...giving away computers, perhaps with a second screen built into the first one to show ads, could allow 100% of humans to have access to the two-way information networks. (as opposed to the one-way information of traditional medias, such as the television, movie, and print medias) Including software with these free PCs could even bring about a new, error-free computer, since installation and testing could be done on a much more standard platform, although disk space could be a limiting factor, since not every kind of software could fit on a stardard size modern hard disk! In addition, if 100% of the people in the large manufacturing countries, such as mexico and china, had computers with internet, we could and perhaps should see a new way of large scale coordination beyond the current way called capitalism. Although it does appear capitalism has mostly died...money still has value to people, although the idea that a person can trade money for goods is still strong, it appears as though people no longer trade goods for money. Perhaps this free PC will bring about a new way of trade, through some kind of teaching/coordinating/manufacturing/shipping/distr ibuting/mining software that everybody could access?
I is good for you: See
They have no plan to do it. They just want to make sure nobody ELSE can.
Anybody else read that as Microsoft Envisions Patent Free Computing?
Like most of the comments so far this patent is very redundant.
This has been done before, hasn't it? I distinctly remember a company who offered a free computer and dial-up ISP in exchange for "targeted advertising". I can't recall the company name but it failed miserably.
I remember seeing screen shots of the system and a good 1/3 of the screen was ads -- all the time.
So, yea...ok, let them apply for this patent. I don't care if they apply for it. But I will raise bloody hell if it's granted because there is CLEARLY prior-art for this. And not just in the computer world either.
Pcworld reported in May this year on the 25 worst tech products of all time. Giving away free PCs is 23 on the list. Dan Tynan notes that at least these 'innovative' products earned their place in the H-T Hall of Shame. You must have seen the pcworld report but for those of us that havent seen it, here is what he had to say...
"In the late 90s, companies competed to dangle free PCs in front of you: All you had to do was sign up, and a PC would eventually show up at your door. But one way or another. there was always a catch: You had to sign up for a long-term ISP agreement, or tolerate an endless procession of Web ads, or surrender reams of personal information. Free-PC.com may have been the creepiest of them all. First you filled out an extensive questionnaire on your income, interests, racial and marital status, and more. Then you had to spend at least 10 hours a week on the PC and at least 1 hour surfing the Web using Free-PC's ISP"
So, am I going to have to pay royalties to give my little sister a computer?
What if I just give her parts and then later put it together for her? Am I in the clear?
Microsoft will make a killing during Xmas and the start of the school year.
This isn't yet another foolish "...on the internet" magically making everything new patent. No, it is an "...on the internet ... inside video games" patent. Completely different :-)
We're obviously talking "free as in beer" here, but still... imagine Richard Stallman reading that headline.
In BC (and maybe other provinces) Telus (ADSL ISP/Telco) is giving away a free Dell computer if you sign up for 3 years of High speed internet.. sure the internet is $40 a month, and you have to have a phone line on top of that.. but it's a FREE COMPUTER!
0 6q3HSpeed&link=flames
http://promo.telus.com/tm/06/q3/highspeed/?BAC-cs
Seriously, if the offer is that someone can data-mine everything on my PC and send me lots of pop-ups, spam, and flash banners, then no thanks.
On a positive note, it may break some people of their Internet Addiction.
omg noes!!1 every reload brings more suffering!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
For $5/month this advertisement can play without sound.
For $10/month we won't run this ad.
I would prefer to "target" that "advertising" right up Bill's ass.
Pick two.
You can't read just the first claim or two in a patent application. Those always include life, the universe, and everything. They start out with the general area, then focus down to what is really being claimed as new. Nobody really expects the first several claims to be valid, although the hope of the filer is that the edge of validity is nearer the top than the bottom of the list. That is what makes reading the beginning of a patent or a filing for one often so outrageous.
They just want this patent so that if anyone else gives it away for free M$ can claim patent infringment and put an end to it. Come on, its M$.
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
Yeah they want to be a "a service provider such as a telephone company". Every company wants to be like that. And get regulated into oblivion. No real growth potential. Stagnate. Stale.
I believe them, don't you?
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
Yeah, but, think of all those porn ads that will be streeming in! I can't wait!!!!
I can see it now... you get the free computer, and it's burdened with EULAs that say hackers can't repurpose the device (remember CueCAT barcode readers), followed by software that monitors what you do, floods you with ads, and collects marketing information about you.
No thanks.
When I slap down money for a hardware and software, I want to be beholden to no one. Ever.
No, because what immediately occurred to me was that this is anoter one of those patents that should never have been issues because it's old hat. Prior art. Whatever.
Advertising evils, Microsoft evils, and Patent evils, all rolled into a business plan that has already proven to fail. I can't decide which to flame first!
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
We'll have a patent on "FREE". Is that a paradox, or an oxymoron?
What?
Then perhaps they have almost figured out where we are headed.
Or perhaps if their patent envisioned patent free computing. Wow, genius.
I would be happier to see the headline:
"Microsoft envisions patent-free computing"
Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
'Microsoft', 'Free' and 'Patent' in the same sentence? In the same title??
It depends on whether or not some version of trusted computing is involved to ensure that the underlying OS isn't tampered with. Otherwise, it's only your favorite distro's Live CD away from being a completely ad-free system.
If I were evil and designing it, I'd apply some of the Xbox 360's security provisions into the machine to ensure that no OS other than a trusted MS OS with TCPA protections was running on the system. I'd then make much of the functioning of the OS contingent on being able to contact certain ad-servers over the same channels used to fetch ads & report back private profiling info -- say a simple SSL connection so that stateful firewalls can't risk blocking it.
It's really possible to lock down such a system, and MS holds enough related patents to make it happen.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
You can buy them. Just like you can buy cellphones in the US.
But even then they could make it so that ur non trusted computing OS and apps dont work with the network.
I say this in light of the fact that with the merging of the Telcos soon there will be a monopoly or at least an oligopoly like the cellphone companies. Where u can only run their apps(with spyware on them) on your PC or u dont get on the(non neutral) net. Sounds far fetched? I know but thats what RIAAT&TMicrosoft wants. And they have lots of money and lawyers.
A computer-readable medium having computer-executable modules for execution on a client computer in association with advertising delivery comprising:
an opt-in module, comprising support for selecting an advertising delivery mode;
a user profiling module for collecting user profile data;
and an advertising delivery module for presenting a targeted advertisement corresponding to information in the user profile data according to the selected advertising delivery mode.
This is what the USPTO will be looking at when they do their prior art search.
How much did your Sunday paper cost you? Maybe a buck, these days. It probably cost the publisher about $3 to print it, factoring in all of the news gathering and publishing costs. However, they also sold about $5/paper in ads, so they're making a net profit.
Advertising is the primary revenue generator for information content providers. TVs, websites, newspapers, radio, and now computers. The only real difference is that once you get the computer, you have the computer and can theoretically do what you want. Of course, you could do that with a newspaper as well, by ripping the ads out.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
[0004] Other prior art service providers, such as Internet service providers and e-mail providers, have offered free or reduced charge services when users are willing to accept advertising in a portion of the window space allocated to the process supporting that service. Advertising delivery was restricted to the time when a user was connected to the particular service and only on display elements, such as a browser window, associated with that service.
Give away hardware supported by ad revenue. Never seen that model before.
Here in Limeyland, Alan Sugar put his personal reputation on this with the em@iler._ article_id=407184&in_page_id=2
After 6 years, he finally gave up early this year. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in
why not get get paid for watching them?
The ads might not come from a local database, but think of how many unwanted ads you get to see regardless if you want to or not (billboards, train-ads, TV, magazines, web (yes I know about Fedora's abilities)). What is a few more ads, and you actually get something in return.
I remember installing Opera and getting banner adds, which they would kindly remove if you paid the license fee. That was almost a decade ago.
There is NOTHING more expensive than something that is "free".
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
I though for sure this has been done before. Just off the top off my head, isnt this how Television and Radio do business?
isn't there already prior art for this? I thought there were 2 or 3 companies already doing this, many were in South america, so that may not be "prior" art. Also, wouldn't netzero qualify... they didn't give away a whole PC, but they had a model of ads-for-service 5 years ago.
I tell you, Bill is "retiring" from Microsoft but not from growing them larger. While is wife is off saving the worlds children, Bill will be brainwashing them with Windows and other Microsoft Software crack.
There was that deal with AMD the brought about that little anti-Linux box( forget the name ).
But then, then there was Flexgo ( http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/flexgo/default.mspx ) at WinHec and THAT should have been obvious to the press what was going on there.
He may not call it One Windows Laptop Per Child, it might not be called One Flexgo Per Child either but rest assured, Bill Gates is NOT RETIRING. Windows is being threatend by Linux and OSS and there's not way he or Balmer will rest until their job is done and there nothing but Windows. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I read the application, and now I get it:
7. The computer-readable medium of claim 6, wherein the database of advertisements is delivered with an update of the operating system.
computing
n 1: The branch of marketing and advertising that studies (with the aid of computers) viral processes disseminating advertising babel to a target audience. v 2: To be visualy captivated by computer running viral processes, spewing gibberish against blue backgrounds, distractions, paperclip sideshows, fear based popup messages and spurious questionaires etc.
definition from the m$ dictionary.
Newspapers are not the same by a long shot. When you buy a newspaper, it's yours. The newspaper company has absolutely no way of know if you even read any of the advertisements. Once the sale is done, it's done.
The way that it would most likely work is similar to what others have tried in the past. Yes, you get the PC; but in order to grant you the PC in a "free status, it has to signal back to the mother ship that it's still there and still receiving advertisements. If it does not signal back or it determines that it is not displaying the advertising, you will be considered to be in violation of the terms of the agreement and will be charged the full price of the PC. Chances are that it will also require you to allow the sofwtare to upgrade itself as necessary. A failure to upgrade means a potential breach of contract.
I remember clearly reading this in the Ts&Cs of one of the failed "free PC" companies a few years ago. You were forbidden from installing another OS; you were forbidden to upgrade the hard drive because they're not about to give you the software to report back; all repairs had to be done through them to verify that you're still in compliance; you had to allow the software to report back. This is exactly why I threw the ad away. Sort of smells of the recent WGA fiasco.
So, no, you can't do with the PC what you want -- unless you want to be billed the full cost of it for violating your terms and conditions for the purchase.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
How much can I pay not to have to use free Miscrosoft hardware and software?
Need Mercedes parts ?
I thought MS largely dealt in defensive patents? If I were a small company I would try to patent the hell out of whatever Microsoft went after in hopes of getting at least one good score. ---- Chewbacca's on a scooter man, holy crap!
I don't feel one bit like I buy more stuff because there are advertisements surrounding my mail. Sometimes I know I have a need for something but haven't found a source. An advertisement is useful to me at this point.
Besides, you should see my collection of recipes for spam!
Now I dont trust M$ any farther then I could pitch a Cray but...
Interesting thing about this after a gloss over the terms is that this could very well be a method of owning SPAM generation system(s) or technology(ies) and therefor denying it as a method to others. This seems to cover most of the methods of delivering advertising.
Pondering life as I know it...
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
Giving away software and services and making money through ads?
At any rate, I'd view this as a "defensive patent". One they don't want to implement, but to keep someone from implementing it instead. Exactly what patents were NOT intended for.
My only hope is that with the abuse of patents, some people will start reconsidering the patenting process. Or maybe the whole system altogether.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I think these days locking people into an OS would be fairly simple.
A basic OS installed on minimal flash memory or even ROM that has NIC drivers.. as well as no way to attach external media. With the amount of bandwidth people have these days compared to the past it would be trivial to stream the main operating system and applications over the internet. Basically what Windows Live is meant to be..
Not exactly hack proof but stronger than simply formatting a large drive and installing a new OS.
"Anyone else here old enough to remember when the PC was about decentralizing computing, taking control of your own data, and empowering yourself? This was Micro$oft's big selling point against IBM."
Oh Yes! I remember! and the concept held such promise I actually thought it would be a turning point in 'saving the world'! So.....
NO! NO! NO!
The users have got to TAKE BACK more control! Wake up people!
If we don't start 'getting it' pretty soon, we might as well just give up all expectation of privacy, personal rights and let all of our fearless leaders and big money label us all. disposible fodder.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It simply wastes your time and truely annoys the pig"
Microsoft is first and formost a marketing company selling software. Second is their legal department to determine what they can get away with or can afford to pay penality for doing wrong, and third is acusition of the works of others or the suppression of others.
Only an idiot would at this time see this article as a favorable towards MS fact.
It is at best an admittance that MS may not be able to compete with either OSS or Google ad revenue. Via their marketing practices to make it sound like it was their original idea. Just as they have done many times in the past.
There was the boy who cried wolf and now there is the software company who yelled "piracy" that people need to stop believing.
"free in exchange for targeted advertising delivery"
Free apparently dosen't mean what I thought it did.
It appears to mean the opposite of what it did.
Kind of like "bad" meaning good.
The idea of computer for target advertising is a dead horse.
The fact that companies use "FREE" for "costs" it more interesting.
I used to use the word "lying" to describe this, but I suppose the current word is "truth"
newspeak is so confusing
I seem to remember having seen this somewhere... where was it?
Ah, yes, let me _google_ it with my _Opera_ browser...
You know what? After all, all this innovating by copying is a kind of piracy -- only in the case of big companies, they smartly require the USPTO sanctioning for the whole thing... pretty sad kind of acting on everyone's part, if I may say so.
I was thinking that they are trying to reinvent the wheel, then I recalled that the spoked wheel was recently patented (see edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/07/02/au stralia.wheel/). But that will not stop others from still trying (www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/200 5/11/24/AR2005112401003.html). I am sure they will even come up for some inventive uses (www.totallyabsurd.com/paddlewheelplane.htm)!
So I wonder, when will they ever learn, and what will they do for the patent if awarded? -- kill the laptop/per/child effort and make them install windows? Hmmm... got to wonder what were they thinking...
and a pay by the second scheme!
U CAUSE U. ROFL.
...requests that Microsoft just "STFU", stop poking their big, fat Microsoft nose in areas that doesn't concern them and concentrate more on fixing the bugs in their software - otherwise we're all allowed to put our big, hob-nailed, non-Microsoft boots on and give them a damned good kicking.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I somehow read the article headline as something like "Microsoft Envisions Pants-Free Computing"
Microsoft patents bartering?
"All your personal informations are belong to us."
Yay! Free advertisements!
I'll take Cheap, New, Medium-Quality every time, presuming it doesn't have the ad services mentioned in the topic post. (Read: Spend 2 hours unhooking the OEM ads.)
Every time my company spends $11,000 at Dell for four (!) PC's, I wilt.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Remember seeing "Free PCs" in PC Magazine's "Worst tech products of all time"? I can't see this having much more success?
Also, what measures are there to stop someone from just reformatting and installing Linux? Trusted computing? License agreements and armies of lawyers? I can't imagine someone not finding a hack. Come to think of it, I hope M$ does this. I mean, they're sure to screw up the security somehow, and when they do, I just got myself a free linux box!