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Symantec Labels Vicars' Software as Spyware
ukhackster writes "The curse of Norton Antivirus has struck again. This time, Britain's vicars have been hit. Norton mistook a legitimate file for a piece of spyware, and those who followed the instructions found that their sermon-writing application no longer worked. Norton was once an essential application. Is it turning into a joke?"
Given that they're also reporting that 80% of viruses defeat Norton and the other big AV programs, I'd say yes, it is a joke.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
I think you're a bit behind the times mate.
Its been a joke for quite a while now.
A sermon-writing application? Word doesn't have a Insert->Scripture option?
If vicars, imams, priests, friars, clerics, and rabbis were the only things Norton was blocking, I'd say it's time to reevaluate my longstand hatred of them in favor of an uneasy alliance.
An anecdotal Norton lifetime experience:
At one time I considered Norton an essential application/utility because I couldn't explain sufficiently to new computer owners why Norton (and McAffee, etc.) were unnecessary, evil, and just wrong for them. So, I'd always get their credit card number, hold my nose, and ante up their money for their peace of mind.
But after years of being called back and finding computer disarray on these "happy" users caused directly or indirectly by the intrusive "anti-virus" software suites such as Norton, I've switched tactics and now the very first thing I do when working on others' computer (with their permission of course) is uninstall any of the mainstream virus protection programs, download AVG free version and am done with it.
I've found since taking this approach virtually no call backs where any problems were created by AVG, with much happier friends and family who have at the same time saved themselves a couple of bucks.
Once an essential application Norton? Only in as much as Norton had been able to (and continues to) convince the world they are essential, not a hard task in the FUD universe that is Windows.
Maybe this is a sign that relig... err I mean magic and technology can't coexist.... oh, wait..
*ducks behind cliched fantasy story*
Just for completeness, I'll mention that it's the 'Vickers' machine gun, not 'Vicars.'
m
http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/mgun_vickers.ht
Yes, I realize it's a pun, but it would have worked either way, really.
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
I think on a corporate level, anti-virus is a *must*, you're dealing with 100s of millions of dollars in transactions and any downtime is money lost... For the tech-savvy home user though, I really don't think anti-virus is essential. I run an iMac with OSX 10.4.7, and an IBM (Lenovo) Thinkpad with Windows XP SP2 and all the latest updates and hot-fixes. I refuse to put anti-virus on it because I think it sucks up too many of my resources. Since switching from IE to Firefox (back in the 0.4 Fire phoenix days) I have no had 1 single issue of spyware, malware, or virus problems on my machine. I keep everything up-to-date and I know who, what, when, and where I'm downloading all my files from the internet. I'll be honest, I pirate plenty and still haven't had any problems... The more I see these anti-virus solutions, it seems that they are designed to keep dumb people from from doing dumb things...
Well, accoring to Dawkins, sermon generators would be explicit tools for the carrying of a viral message.
I think the program may be working properly as designed.
Ryan Fenton
Friars tend to live a secluded life and have close to no relationship with the world out of their monastery. May I ask why you dislike them? Their home-made honey and liquor are usually delicious :)
Global warming is a cube.
The Bishop!
If people just list down what they do on their computers, most of them are going to find that a Linux box would do them just fine (If they don't want to pay the Apple premium). Getting rid of the vicious circle of the Virus scanners / Privacy tools / spyware blockers, their updates / fake warnings and worthless Microsoft security updates should be a very compelling reason, IMHO.
(AP Cupertino, CA) A mysterious fire is raging out of control at the Symantic HQ on 20330 Stevens Creek Blvd.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
....we can replace the Norton name with any other vendor's name and still have the same discussion. The only reason that we're beating up on Norton is that they've shot themselves in the foot like this before.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
"Usually it takes a lot to get a clergyman upset, but we have had a fair few on the phone. There's been no talk of smiting yet, but we'll wait and see," Green added.
I love the Brits.
Norton ClergyBlocker 2006 Pro Edition.
I'd buy two copies.
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
When has norton ever been an essential application? If a person is resonably cautious and knows the basics of computer security there is no need to have an antivirus program that clogs the system. Peridoic web checkups do just fine.
On another note, now that this software has lost its credability with the clergy (as CHP has advised members to ignore threat warnings dealing with this software) im willing to wager that many clergy members would be willing to ignore many future threat warnings with the fear that the progam will break some other essential application. The money spent on the licenses for norton would be better spent on education for the clergy so they can avoid these problems all together.
...is an Anti-Norton virus.
After one of my users uttered that spoonerism the other day, I am more and more convinced it needs to happen.
Not to mention that a few monestaries produce some amazing beers.
Signature-based virus scanners have ALWAYS been a joke. Basically, it's a technology that was barely good enough when the first one was written, and all that time we've been using it until something better comes along.
.ini file - to overrule it (OS "home" edition).
The real solution to virusses lies not in signature-based scanners, but in policing applications. The discontinued Thunderbyte AV (of DOS days) had the right idea. It scanned files for instructions that shouldn't be in normal programs, like an API call to format your hard disk. It had a list of exceptions (format.com etc.), but otherwise, it would complain loudly.
Nowadays, we can do much better. We have usernames, credentials, priviliges etc. Why don't programs run as separate users with separate priviliges? There is NO reason why Word (or openoffice for that matter) should be able to access every part of the registry or harddisk that the user running it can. Firefox should basically be restricted to making TCP connections and writing it's configuration, cache, and a download directory. The security model now allows it to write to c:\windows\system32 if you're logged in as administrator, even though it clearly has no business doing so.
Newly downloaded applications should be granted permission only to write to registry keys they themselves created, and files likewise. And if an app overstretches its default permissions, the OS should complain loudly and ask permission (OS "professional" edition), lookup a policy file (OS "corporate/enterprise" edition) or simply disallow it and require some sort of wizzardry - e.g. editing an
This doesn't require rocket science to implement, though it will break some stuff and force users to copy files from My Documents\Microsoft Office to My Documents\Firefox if they want to upload a document. Small price to pay, I say.
Of course Norton and McAfee suffer not just from being unreliable in detecting virusses, they also fuck up your OS so it won't work properly anymore, and are a bitch to uninstall. But the solution to that is simple; switch to another product. The fact that the other product would, again, be a signature based scanner is the lamentable part.
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Norton is an anti-virus program. It makes perfect sense that it should impead the effectiveness of the most long-lived and devastating virus of all time: religion.
Don't mod me down becuase you disagree with me. Post a response explaining why you think religion gets a bad rap and why you think it's such a huge benefit to mankind. Moderating me down so no one can read what I and paulsgre wrote is chickenshit. You're abusing the system. Mod down the "first post" and GNAA trolls; not someone who you disagree with.
They take donations through the PlatePal (tm) church offering cash collection service.
Where were you when the voynix came?
What most amateur IT people don't understand is that there is a world of difference between Norton Antivirus, and Symantec Antivirus. As an IT professional who has helped neutralize viruses off of many computers, and who administers a Windows domain (don't hate me), I can say that Symantec Corporate Antivirus works great, is centrally managed, and does what it is supposed to and no more. I've used to for 5 years now and it has successfully prevented numerous virus outbreaks that would have greatly disrupted the Windows workstations I am paid to administer. If this were a Linux/Mac desktop environment, there would be no need to run an antovirus. But there is critical software that is available only for Windows. And this is what I am paid to keep running.
I had my own run-in with a Norton false positive. For some reason, my newly acquired copy of NAV took exception to a file on my desktop called "Norton Antivirus 2003 keygen.exe". IIRC it labelled it as "malware\keygen". I checked the file with several web AV tools and it was clean. What could the problem have been?
P.s., Avast FTW!
I work for Symantec. I'm typing this on a Symantec computer. From a Symantec network. In the office. Surrounded by thought-deprived Symantedroids with little yellow swirlies tatooed on their foreheads.
So listen very closely:
Norton is shit. Shitty software shittily implemented on a shitty operating system. It used to be kind of kewl, but now it's a shit interface, with shit performance, and shit virus definitions that cost a shitload of money to update. Implemented on a shitbag platform because its missing some basic shit in the process controls. So we piled more shit on top of the shit that was already there, so now the shit attack surface still smells like shit, only it's bigger. The underlying pile of shit keeps getting bigger because Microsoft is apparently drilling and pumping to recycle old shit, so we have to keep making our pile of shit bigger to cover it, only some of the old shit keeps poking through. And our shit is updated only when the shit hits the fan. No one even knows their way around the pile of shit anymore because it's become an immense mountain of shit with rolling hills of shit versions, rivers of shit updates, shit swamps of shitty support and peaks of horseshit management tools that allow people to pretend that they understand all this shit.
Buy a Mac. Patch the OS. And don't install shitty antivirus software.
If you think Anti-Virus software is not essential, I'd like you to go to a large college campus and connect to their network. Without a firewall and AV software you will probably have some nasty worms, viruses and trojans in about 1 hour. I have my computer set to scan everyday while I am at class. It finds at least 2 viruses a week. I use firefox, zone alarm, and keep windows updated. I also turn the comp at night, but stuff still gets through. I just wish people on campus would get AV software, the school gives it away for free because the situation is that bad. I have spent hours going around the dorm putting AVG or Norton(free from school) on friend's machines because they were completely trashed by worms and viruses(I usually have to reinstall everything first). On a side note turn off file sharing on your hard drives people. Everyone on campus can access all your files. And whoever the owner of "Matt's Comp" is, you may want to rethink putting all your passwords and usernames in a file labeled "passwords.doc" in your My Documents folder...
(apologies to Monty Python)
First Vicar: As I scan my computer for sinful programs...
(Cut to bishop and vicars at doorway.)
Bishop: The anti-virus, vic! Don't run the anti-virus!
(Cut back to vicar.)
First Vicar: (Scanning in process)
(The computer explodes. Vicar's sermons disappear in smoke. Cut to close-up of the bishop.)
Bishop: We was too late. The Reverend Norton's writings bit the ceiling.
ShoutingMan.com
I've found that Norton and McAfee are the source of more computer problems than any other software, including Windows itself. They are bug-ridden, invasive, and wasteful of resources. About 50% of the "service calls" I do consist of replacing Norton/McAfee with AVG and then typing "msconfig" to turn off all the other garbage they've got installed in their tray. Then they say "You fixed my computer! It's like brand-new! You must be some kind of god damn genius!"
Read the article, folks. The software has the liturgy and the readings. (I'd assume it has all the Propers, meaning those parts of the worship service that change based on the day on the liturgical calendar.) That means it has nothing to do with sermon preparation, but instead with preparation of the liturgy (what most lay folks call "the service"). See http://www.vislit.com/articles/intro.html for more info. Poor techie writer didn't understand his subject matter. (A liturgy, for instance, is not "delivered," while a sermon is.) Also, all the (predictable) jokes re: "sermon = virus" reflect the same misunderstanding. (Of course, the Visual Liturgy folks seem to be pitching their software towards folks who don't exactly have a strong grasp of technology, too.)
CA's EZ Antivirus has also flagged mIRC as a virus.
Come on, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about it.
I used to use Norton a lot. Over the last 4 years or so, I have come to realize that Norton causes so many more problems that the very few it actually solves that I too remove Norton when setting up a new computer. Symantec products are now way too buggy to be trusted IMHO, the better proof: unistalling them is sometimes as painfull as removing malware.
At work I've disabled norton on my pc as if I don't nothing works, its set to update at 12 am (not pm)for some stupid reason so just before lunch everyones (except mine for some reason :) ) pc blue screens on update days
I've tried explaining to my pointy haired boss that Norton crashes our pc's because of a conflict with our inventory SW and nortons update mechanism but he's got as much of a clue as dilberts cartoon boss
He's supposed to be our IT guy, but usually makes it worse when he tries to 'fix' things, anyway rant over. I'm enjoying quietly converting people to firefox and thunderbird and have recieved lads of requests to 'speed up my computer' which usually means uninstalling all sorts of cr*p.
Today the big boss asked me to sort out outlook express which I did by swopping it for an 'upgraded' version (i.e.thunderbird), which he now thinks is great so things are looking up!
I'm not sure the false positives could do anything but further amplify that anti-virus is more of a false sense of security than real threat protection.
80% miss rate
Of course if you're still surfing with Windows you're at risk anyway.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
without religion, what would become of war? or hate? How would world leaders control the masses? Honestly, without religion most people would be nice to each other because they'd have to -- there would be no higher being that would forgive them for their inhumanity to other humans. People would have to make more of an effort...
/gam/
Now, *with* religion, you can slack off, cheat, lie, steal, kill, covet, etc, and still be forgiven regardless of how much you hurt those around you. You can waste all of the Earth's resources without concern because one day you'll be with your God and that's really all that matters. I mean, this Earth is temporary, right? People really don't matter so much as what those people believe in, right?
I forgot what I was saying... I think I was agreeing with you or something...
anyways...
"In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they are not."
Works just fine in OpenOffice though! ;)
OpenOffice's equanimity is similarly unchanged if you do inserts from the Necronomicon. (User sanity is appreciably affected if you do, but not so much as merely caused by using MSWord.)
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn....
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Virus name: God
Also known as: Jehovah, Allah, Yahweh, YHWH
Spyware: Yes, omnicient.
Damage potential: Armageddon
Prevalence: Ubiquitous
Stealth: Yes (even it's existence is debated)
Threat level: Critical
Notes: This omnipotent entity creates a world by force of will, and then waits until the end times to trigger the armageddon payload.
Is in yer ass. He's talking about way long ago...
.exe's, that did great things. There was a direct hex/ascii editor for files AND raw disk sectors. There was the first practical unerase/undelete for files and dirs and much more - a superb hacker's toolkit, everything you needed except debug (and that came w/DOS).
-- You probably weren't even born yet --
Before there was Spyware, before there were viruses, before the Mac-centric (at the time) Symantec bought out and pussified it, there was:
{brief fanfare}
"The Norton Utilities"
The finest and mightiest system utils evar. They had a nice collection of about 15 programs, all tiny
Peter Norton was a god to us then. The moment Symantec bought up all his stuff they completely hosed them, they probably didn't know any better being Mac heads, but they drove what was the strongest techie software franchise in the PC world right into the toilet.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
I'm sure the irony of this statement escapes you...
I used to use Norton AntiVirus religiously. I recently uninstalled it and I won't be going back unless something drastic changes. Every new release lately has more and more popups which are seemingly impossible to disable. The thing basically spams you with messages and it's pretty clear they're intended to bring your attention on the program so you'll be more likely to pay for your yearly update. They're afraid antivirus has become something that sits in your tray and you ignore all year while it does its job silently ... and that software that behaves like that doesn't inspire users to shell out their yearly upgrade / subscription cash hastily enough. So they make all sorts of blinky popups to remind you that you're using Symantec Norton AntiVirus and it is Monitoring Your Computer and Status is Green and all sorts of shazz I really don't need to know. Tell me when there's a virus and shut up otherwise.