Making the World's Fastest Kayak

bart_scriv writes "BusinessWeek looks at the world's fastest kayak, which floats over the water rather than nosing through waves like more typical boats. Named 'Little Wing' for the fore and aft wings that add stability, the kayak is the creation of Ted Warren. An MIT-educated engineer, Warren 'played around for three years with 3-D wire mesh designs on his PC, crunching the numbers for speed and stability, then started building actual models to test in the waters near his Massachusetts home.'"

Comments

Not the fastest with me in it

[jeremymiles]

It isn't going to float over the water in such a delicate fashion when you put 225 pounds of me in it.

Still, at least the water might not slosh over the side, and into the kayak itself (or worse, the nose bury itself so deep in a wave that it comes over the front).

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say that this probably matches a ton of the Slashdot people. It kind of makes me wonder why something that calls for you to work out would make it on the site. I guess the geeks still have to maintain the illusion that they work out.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Upaut]

Thats funny, I'm 240 lb., and I never have any trouble when I kayak out to the sea for a week of random camping along the ocean (great way to drop some weight...). Kayaks themselves are VERY good at handling weight, and the rubber sphincter should be tight enough that water cannot get in.

I hope that these engineering features can be used to develop better salt-water kayaks as well, as it may make my trips a little faster, so I can get more of the East Coast in.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Red Flayer]

float over the water in such a delicate fashion when you put 225 pounds of me in it

Especially considering that the rest of you is NOT going in the kayak... I think bloody stumps preclude 'delicate' as a descriptor any day. But that's just me... YMMV.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[jeremymiles]

Really? They obviously do a better class of kayak in the US of A (assuming that's where you're from). I've got a Sevylor inflatable (sit on) canoe, and I'm too heavy for that (I bought it 'cos I thought it would motivate me to lose a few pounds. It actually claims a max capacity of 250lbs, but I think that includes a bit of luggage - it doesn't want it all in the same place.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, I'll say this once: "Inflatible Canoes are NOT Kayaks...

Hell, inflatible canoes are barely canoes. Get yourself a fiberglass, you can fit 400lb. of flesh (two people, or three), your gear, and still go down some rapids.

And how do you confuse a kayak with a canoe in general? Evolved from diferent crafts, can do different things, and look completly different...

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[strider427]

I actually know the Warren's and have ridden in this very kayak. I'm a complete kayaking novice, so can't comment on comparing these to more traditional boats but at 220lbs myself, I had no problem at all maneuvering. It seemed very responsive to my paddling and felt quite stable.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Anonymous Coward]

They obviously do a better class of kayak in the US of A (assuming that's where you're from).

Considering the "Brit boat" mystique in the kayaking community, I hardly think this is the case. Builders like P&H, Valley, and NDK are making outstanding kayaks in your part of the world which are perfectly capable of high performance while carrying big paddlers.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Anonymous Coward]

haha, you said sphincter.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[dr_dank]

the rubber sphincter should be tight enough that water cannot get in.

That's why the Goatse Class kayaks never really caught on.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[gardyloo]

I would say that this probably matches a ton of the Slashdot people.

      Nice pun, intended or not.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, some kayaks look just like canoes. I'm converting a K1 (Liquid Logic, Airhead) into a C1. The difference being the way you paddle it (2 blades for a kayak instead of 1 for a canoe), and the way you sit. Legs in front for a kayak, legs folded under you for a canoe. Oh, and there are inflatable kayaks, and sit-on-top kayaks. For more info on canoes that look like kayaks go to cboats.net
Of course, these are all whitewater boats.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Profane MuthaFucka]

No, the problem with the goatse class kayaks was that the seaman was getting in. A kayak without seaman is about as useful as a three assed monkey.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Alex P Keaton in da]

This is true in more situations than kayaking.
At the drag strip, I heard an obese guy talking about how dipping body parts of his car had shaved 20 pounds off the cars weight. I almost pointed out that dexitrim could have shaved even more off the cars weight.
Same thing with biking. I know a bunch of overweight people that spend thousands of dollars on components to shave a few pounds off the weight of their bike. Serously, not to be gross, but rather than spending thousands on carbon forks and stems and whatever, I spend $1 on some fiber, and bam, a couple pounds gone.
There is actually an important analogy for computers- some things seem great until you add users/people. Maybe Microsofts "People Ready" isn't tied for the worst ad campaign with Ford's "Bold Moves" or Wendy's "Do what tastes right?"

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[theshowmecanuck]

From my understanding, kayaks originated with the Inuit people of the far north (arctic ocean). None of the Inuit kayaks I have seen (in person or in photos/films) look anything like a canoe. They are all closed topped with an opening for the kayaker.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[recursiv]

Some people actually do keep themselves in shape and are looking for every possible advantage. Even though most people riding $$$$ bikes have some weight to lose, that doesn't mean they all do.

Many people summarily criticize those who have light bikes/cars/skis/whatever because they could have more easily lost those 3 pounds by losing weight or taking a monster dump or whatever. But some of us already did that (the dump was excellent btw) and are still looking for more optimization.

I am one of those guys who is into having a light road bike. But I also treat myself the same way. There is probably less than 3 pounds I could lose off myself without negatively affecting performance. I recently bought a bike that was almost 5 pounds lighter than my previous bike. (and about $3k more) That's an improvement I couldn't have made any other way.

Optimization is just part of my personality I think. Back in the days of Quake2, I used to be a hardcore gamer. Now I bike. I like the side effects of the biking a lot better.

Anyway, there was no point to this. I just wanted to try to defend the weight weenies. Not that you were really attacking them/us.

Peace out.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Mr. Flibble]

From my understanding, kayaks originated with the Inuit people of the far north (arctic ocean). None of the Inuit kayaks I have seen (in person or in photos/films) look anything like a canoe. They are all closed topped with an opening for the kayaker.

That is correct. The Inuit kayaks were nothing like canoes, they were very wide with flat bottoms and very stable, and the Inuit *DID NOT* "eskimo" roll them. Indeed, I remember a traditional Greenlander Inuit who paddled a sealskin kayak being asked: "What would you do if you flipped upside down?"

(Keep in mind the incredibly low temperatures of the water, and the artic conditions.)

The Inuit thought, for some time and answered: "Drown."

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[theshowmecanuck]

Further, check this article on Inuit Kayaks out. out.

In case it gets /.'d (this comment is buried down enough that maybe it won't but just in case... that said, there is a very old photo on the site of actual Inuit kayaks as well):

The Inuit invented the kayak, a one person boat used for hunting and transportation, and propelled by a double-bladed paddle. Inuit and Aleuts used driftwood or whalebone to make a light framework, and covered it with stretched skins, made watertight with whale fat.

Kayak means "hunter's boat" and it is perfect for hunting on the water. It's almost silent, making it easy to sneak up behind prey. If a white cloth is draped in front, the animals might be fooled into thinking that it is a drifting piece of ice.

These traditional "one man" boats were usually just that - "made to measure" for just one man's size and weight. When a person had fallen into the water or died from kayak hunting, it was often said that he had borrowed someone else's kayak, and didn't have the same sense of balance.

Hunters wore a sealskin "annuraaq" to keep water from getting into the boat (the origin of the modern name "anorak" for a waterproof cover). The hood and wrists were tightly tied, and it was long enough to be tied around the cockpit. So how did they get out if they capsized? Simple. They didn't.

It was considered suicide to come out of the boat. There was no protection from the icy cold water, no buoyancy in heavy skin clothing, and... who knew how to swim? If you rolled over, you had to know how to roll right back up!

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[pafrusurewa]

The Inuit kayaks were nothing like canoes, they were very wide with flat bottoms and very stable, and the Inuit *DID NOT* "eskimo" roll them.

I think that's a bit too broad. Not all Inuit kayaks are (or were) wide and I don't think one could say that all Greenland Inuit had the same customs.

If you do a bit of research you'll find that the first Europeans who knew of the eskimo roll were those who had travelled to Greenland. The story you usually read (don't know if it's true) goes like this: Greenland Inuit couldn't swim (water too cold) so they needed a method to recover from capsizing if they didn't want to drown.

In any case, those who compete in Greenland's water sports competitions nowadays are arguably some of the best "eskimo rollers".

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Mr. Flibble]

In any case, those who compete in Greenland's water sports competitions nowadays are arguably some of the best "eskimo rollers".

Heh, well as a whitewater kayaker as well, I would foster that ability on the whitewater guys. After all, you use your roll a GREAT deal while on whitewater.

But then again, I have also taught about 150 people or so how to roll a kayak too... :)

But yes, I have heard that the roll came from Greenland, but most of the greenland kayaks I have seen (original, seal skin) would be VERY hard to roll. More modern ones (narrower) are easier.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[pafrusurewa]

Heh, well as a whitewater kayaker as well, I would foster that ability on the whitewater guys. After all, you use your roll a GREAT deal while on whitewater.

Where they beat the whitewater guys is speed (they roll over as quickly as possible in a set amount of time) and variety. Most whitewater kayakers only really use two or three different rolls and a hand roll or two regularly. Those Greenlanders have an amazing array of techniques that they use.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Mr. Flibble]

Where they beat the whitewater guys is speed (they roll over as quickly as possible in a set amount of time) and variety. Most whitewater kayakers only really use two or three different rolls and a hand roll or two regularly. Those Greenlanders have an amazing array of techniques that they use.

True - in fact when our club had a speed-rolling contest I consistently came in last. However, on the river, out of the beginners (before I became an instructor) I swam the least out of the group (45 people). In whitewater it is more about the reliablity of the roll than the type.

I generally use the Sweep, the C-to-C (my preffered roll) and the rodeo roll, however, I am able to manage a variety of others (and have only rarely had to use the handroll - but I actually find it easier in certain rare conditions.)

In whitewater you can use many of the more esoteric rolls, but some of them don't work when trapped on eddy lines, or when you are moving at a different speed relative to the water, you may find that certain roll types are impossible, or that you can only roll on one side.

However, of all the rolls, the "hip-flick" is nearly always prevalent (there are a few that don't use it, but I don't recomend them, unless your hip/torso mobility is such that you cannot use them.) The rest of the movement is how you react with your torso, and them paddle esoterics. In reality the "multitude" of roll types are really the same things, with a different looking finish, however, they are fun to watch! But the "trick rolls" are really mostly the same.

However, if you want to see a really good trick roll, search out the "From Zero to Hero" move that is only possible in a low volume whitewater boat. :)

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[kayditty]

Is dexitrim a synonym for 'diet and exercise?'

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Teppic_52]

I have always, and still do, maintain that kayaking is a dry sport. Rolling is a result of not knowing how to perform a proper low brace support stroke, or being bored in a nice warm swimming pool. There are other way to get upside down, like failing to get the proper sweep in when trying to cartwheel, or being pushed by enemy polo players, but these are mostly intentionally/self inflicted and not embarrasing in the pub later that day, or at least not as embarrasing as having to drive 100 odd miles to search for you boat in the lake at the bottom of the river after taking a swim. The most fun I've had rolling was at a polo competition in Holland many years ago, where the objective of the game was to fall over one side, pass your cigarette across the bottom of the boat, and roll up the other with one hand, whilst keeping your cigarette alight. Obviously being Holland these weren't Marlboros, much chaos and cursing over damp packets of Rizla insued. The rolls that don't use a 'hip flick', in ideal circumstances, end up with the paddle (or paddler in the case of hand rolling) at the front of the boat instead of the rear, which any white water paddler will know is a much more stable place to be, making them more suited to white water use. This is odd though because it is mostly European polo players (not European white water paddlers) that I have seen right themselves in this way. The only downside is it is impossible to keep a smoking implement alight whilst rolling and using this method, I think the European polo players may need to asses their priorities.......

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[Mr. Flibble]

I would agree that it is a dry sport... with a drytop. However, I find that moves (in my larger boats) like enders and such often result in a required roll (unless you can get the sweep in to land on your butt) - and when working on space godzillas, and big air moves, you are very likely to end up getting thrashed - not to mention mystery moves.

I agree that you should have both a good high and low brace, and be able to avoid rolling in the first place, but it is sometimes unavoidable. True, you should never require it on flatwater, but on whitewater it is mandatory as soon as you go above II+/III or so. I have managed some great runs on IV+ such as the Ashnola river without flipping once (what a fantastic day that was). However, in the ocean, I am far far more willing to trust my roll than I am the other rescue techniques such as paddle floats etc, as if you end up flipping in the ocean, odds are you are in some heavy seas or bad tidal narrows, and the paddle float rescue techniques are not going to help you much.

As for the hand roll, I finish mine in a forward position, but I can do the back deck one. One of my friends always back deck finishes his hand rolls. And, strangely enough, my Dagger Super Ego rolls MUCH easier in a sweep roll as the edges are so hard and high that a brace roll (c-to-c) is hard to perform correctly (paddle starts of deeply buried). I also find the roll handy after being thumped in a hole - or out here, while surfing ~30 foot breakers at Long Beach (Vancouver Island) that when one breaks on top of you, you are probably going to need to roll out of it... once you get yourself into the trough behind the wake.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[siriuskase]

Sorry, sitting style isn't the only difference between a C1 and a K1 (or C2 and K2, for that matter). On the canoe boats, the bow and stern turn up a little bit, on the kayaks, they stick straight out. Many decked canoes don't have room for legs under the deck anyway, and if they did, you need to cut hole in the deck big enough for your butt if you wanted to sit down kayak style.

Re:Not the fastest with me in it

[flibby]

You don't seriously think that an inflatable kayak will support weight anywhere near as well as a real kayak, do you?

The key to the speed besides the secret 10hp motor

[The_Pariah]

He learned a secret from the street racing ricers.

Add carbon fiber to ANYTHING and it will be faster!

But can it go...

[Siberwulf]

Can it go over a waterfall or down some steep rapids? Gliding is great, as long as you have something to glide on, which isn't the case in some of the more turbulent rapids.

Re:But can it go...

[CheddarHead]

Can it go over a waterfall or down some steep rapids? Gliding is great, as long as you have something to glide on, which isn't the case in some of the more turbulent rapids.

It's an ocean kayak, not a white water kayak. Perhaps you were not aware, but kayaks are not all created equal. White water kayaks are shorter, and more maneuverable. Ocean kayaks are longer, more stable, and with more pronounced keels for better tracking in the wind. This kayak was not designed for waterfalls and rapids.

Re:But can it go...

[ChetOS.net]

Yeah, but can it run Linux?

That is the real question.

Re:But can it go...

[tylernt]

Yeah, but can it run Linux?

Yes, a Kayak certainly can. We still a few of them still around, and 400MHz is enough to run Linux.

However, I can guarantee they won't float. They might make good boat anchors though... they are built like tanks!

Re:But can it go...

[Siberwulf]

Ah, thanks for the clarity. I don't do kayaking, so I'm pretty much a noob. In fact, I just try to stay out of the water :P

Re:But can it go...

[Amouth]

"Can it go over a waterfall or down some steep rapids?"

i am sure it can.. would i want to be in it? don't think so .. but that isn't the answer to the question

Re:But can it go...

[Mr. Flibble]

Yeah, but can it run Linux?

That is the real question.

Heh, I have had this helmet/sticker combo since 1997, here is my first chance to use it on slashdot!:
Any kayak can run linux!

You just need the right stuff from thinkgeek! ;)

(On a side note, I had that helmet on while paddling the Chilliwack river once, and another paddler got really mad at me because he came up to paddle from the States. And apparently he was an employee of Microsoft. I thought it was funny that the tux logo on my helmet bothered him...)

Missing information?

[moronga]

How fast does this damned thing go? o_O

I RTFA, and I don't see them say anything about speed.

Re:Missing information?

[Timesprout]

Just about as fast as you can paddle it

Re:Missing information?

[Skevin]

Probably not as fast as this guy. Looking at pictures of the kayak, I see no boosters, no solid-fuel turbine-... hell, I don't even see a place to mount the jet engine (which can be gotten off Ebay for $75, so don't say it's inaccessible).
The current water speed record is over 317 MPH (511 KPH). The pilot's compartment seems to have no protection against the elements. Sprays of water hitting your face that fast is like trying to face down a sandblaster - it'll even chip away at your skull pretty quickly.
The whole phenomenon of trying to break any water speed has the highest mortality rate of any recreational activity in this country: one in eight people die. Or so we assume, even though their bodies are so broken up that no one ever finds any pieces of them afterwards.
I wish this guy luck and hope he keeps the title of World's Fastest Kayak. I could never paddle that fast.

Solomon

Floats...

[SURsys]

Floats over the water? I'd like to see it float over some rocks.

Re:Floats...

[$RANDOMLUSER]

> Floats over the water? I'd like to see it float over some rocks.
That's impressive; most other boats float on the water.

Re:Floats...

[SURsys]

I'm not sure if things float over or on the water. I'm using their wording so to make sure what I said means what they said. Regardless of how a kayak floats (over or on), I'd still like to see it float on or over rocks, I'll be impressed either way.

Slick but the fastest ?

[Anonymous Coward]

At the end of the article it says that the previous user of that particular demo kayak was "a class A racer who trains two hours a day and missed winning a big regional race recently by six seconds".

The implication that the winner of that race was using a conventional kayak. If the the advanced design of the new kayak wasn't enough to give its user enough of an edge to win, what do they base the "fastest" kayak claim on ?

Aftermarket enhancements for the kayak

[Erectile Dysfunction]

"The addition of the fore and aft wings was a sound decision that earned the kayak approximately an extra 50HP," a California Institute of Technology professor of Aerodynamical Engineering commented adding, "but I am really eager to get one of this into my lab to see how much performance I can squeeze out by adding reducing the coefficient of drag with racing stripes and aft flames as well as introducing a chrome muffler to increase performance by another 25HP."

Re:Aftermarket enhancements for the kayak

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. Burns: Could you explain your model, young man?
Homer: Well basically, I just copied the plant we have now.
Mr. Burns: Hmmm.
Homer: Then, I added some fins to lower wind resistance.
            And this racing stripe here I feel is pretty sharp.
Mr. Burns: Agreed. First prize.

Not even close to the world's fastest

[Maximum Prophet]

It took this guy 3 hours to cross 13 miles. The world's fastest kayak can do 16.9 mph. http://www.kayakwisconsin.net/2006/01/blur.html

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[shabushabu]

I wonder how you approached the process of reading TFA! Looked around for numbers so that you would have something to post??? This guy trained only for 3 days! He was a novice! The article you linked says the TOP speed recorded was 16.9mph, evidently with an expert.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[Anonymous Coward]

First, the guy's not a racer, he was taking a rather leisurely cruise with a bunch of other amateurs. Secondly, that foil gadget is super-nifty, but it's a kayak in name only. I doubt you could use it on a river unless it was the Mississippi or the Platte in Nebraska at middle ebb.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[Red Flayer]

And here's some nice geeky info (albeit as a semi-sales pitch) about the factors contributing to speed. It does get a little technical, which is quite nice IMO.

Not only is this not the fastest kayak in the world, it's not even remotely close -- but I'd like to see the hull design advantages explained in the terms from the link I posted above, maybe even with some mathematical analysis.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[doctor_nation]

As someone else said, not all kayaks are built for whitewater. Those are shorter and more maneuverable. And before you go saying that sea kayaks aren't "real" kayaks, I believe that the origin of the word is from the Inuit and I think they were probably more interested in fishing in the ocean than going over rapids.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[harrkev]

Not only is this not the fastest kayak in the world, it's not even remotely close

We won't really know until we put a world-class athalete in the thing.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[Anonymous Coward]

Secondly, that foil gadget is super-nifty, but it's a kayak in name only. I doubt you could use it on a river unless it was the Mississippi or the Platte in Nebraska at middle ebb.

Forgetting for a moment that there are plenty of slow-moving rivers where the foil boat could be paddled, "Can it go on rivers?" is hardly the criterion for judging whether a craft is a kayak. I wouldn't expect to see a 21-foot surf ski on many rivers either.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[shawn(at)fsu]

I don't think he's a novice. I read it as he only trained for three days with this particular hull design. All in this entire article sucked. Happy feel good story with little to no technical details at all. Pretty much what I as a techie nerd would expect to get out of a business week article.

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[Anonymous Coward]

For longer races, I'd place my bets on this kayak being faster than just about anything else out there (including hydrofoils - because no one is strong enough to take advantage of hydrofoils for more than a few minutes).

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[chinmay7]

The LittleWing craft teams says that they are "committed to building the lightest, most seaworthy, and best performing kayaks available today"

The Flyak on the other hand, is purely a flat water racing craft. So comparing the two doesn't make sense at all!

Remarkably, neither lists any speed records on their websites. :|

Re:Not even close to the world's fastest

[theshowmecanuck]

The original kayaks were built for hunting whales and seals in the Arctic Ocean... not in rivers.

Control

[AugustZephyr]

This things sounds uber-fast but not easy to control because of its light weight. Not sure if it is worth a 100% premium over other kayaks, but nonetheless it is a sleek craft.

Re:Control

[not-him-again]

They didn't claim it moves fast, just that it *looks* fast. And, apparently, it raises funds fast too. Mission accomplished, I'd say!

Re:Control

[painQuin]

I think most of the 100% premium was from it being custom made?

Nice, but I'd rather have a hydrofoil kayak

[PapayaSF]

Like this one. And did you all know that Alexander Graham Bell was a pioneer in hydrofoils?

Re:Nice, but I'd rather have a hydrofoil kayak

[Mr. Flibble]

WOW! Thats just fantastic!

I am a certified ACA Whitewater/Sea Kayak instructor, and I have recently started racing K1's for use in adventure racing, where any craft that uses paddles (and non-locked oars) is allowed to compete in the water section. I thought that the Tieken Stealth K1 (flatwater K1, 5.2 meters long) I paddled was a fast boat, or the Carbon Fibre Necky Lookshaw II 20 feet by 20 inch beam (now no longer in production) were fast boats, but a foil....

Jeebus.

I have my doubts about the little wing, I don't live that far away from their headquarters, I would like to see it, but I have been looking for a used Necky Lookshaw II as a sea kayak for racting/touring use.

But dear god, would I love to have a flier in an adventure race - providing the water is fairly calm (rough water can cause problems for foil craft - and yes, it is for adventure races, I said *ROUGH* water)

As an avid kayaker, I must say I am just incredibly pleased that this topic appeared on slashdot, because many of the links here are to craft I have never heard of.

Best slashdot story all year IMO, and your post with this link is the pinnacle.

Re:Nice, but I'd rather have a hydrofoil kayak

[advocate_one]

sadly that photo looks like it's been photoshopped... the rear foil is missing and there's a weird distortion where the bow would have been...

Re:Nice, but I'd rather have a hydrofoil kayak

[RedBear]

Personally I'd be interested to know how well this "world's fastest" kayak would do against someone in a Hobie Cat with their pedal-operated Mirage drives (based on penguin fins!). They probably wouldn't even allow one in the race due to the fact that you can propel it with arms and legs at the same time. When the other racers are resting their arms you can be gaining another hundred yards.

The World's Fastest Kayak...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't won a race yet?

With the current global warming trend...

[Browzer]

I wonder if research in slower floating devices wouldn't be more appropriate considering that in a few hundred years everything would be under water.

Well?

[Anonymous Coward]

...Does it run Linux?

What?

[Red Flayer]

FTS:

BusinessWeek looks at the world's fastest kayak, which floats over the water rather than nosing through waves like more typical boats.

Huh? Not remotely -- this is not a hovercraft. This is simply an ultra-light kayak with a differently shaped hull based on racing boat designs.

Nor is it the world's fastest kayak, at least not according to TFA. The best it's finished in a competitive race is 6 seconds out of 1st place.

OK, it's pretty cool, and I'd like to take it on the Hudson sometime. But don't overhype it, please.

Re:What?

[slartibart]

Nor is it the world's fastest kayak, at least not according to TFA. The best it's finished in a competitive race is 6 seconds out of 1st place. So? It could still be the world's fastest kayak. Maybe it's the kayaker who isn't so great.

Re:What?

[TubeSteak]

I remember reading an article in the late 90's about how some Kayak builder had this genius idea: use CAD to make a kayak.

As it turns out, most kayak molds were hand made from the shells of older kayaks... meaning that they were never particularly perfect to begin with and that over the years, consecutive molds were getting further and further distorted.

So, even though you're thinking "gee whiz, this isn't anything special," it really may represent an innovation in the field. Advances in materials science & design don't always propogate out so quickly, especially if there isn't a lot of money being thrown around.

Re:What?

[Red Flayer]

There's quite a bit of money being thrown into kayak design. There's also a huge amount of money being thrown into hull design for other types of small watercraft (sailboats especially). And while his solution may be interesting and unique, my point is that until it's demonstrated to be so, please don't describe it as 'the fastest kayak in the world'... or as 'floating over the water,' which is not true at all.

Re:What?

[kayditty]

I'm guessing it has never been in a competitive race. Atleast, the article does not tell us that it has:

The last user of my demo was a class A racer who trains two hours a day and missed winning a big regional race recently by six seconds.

Unless you're retarded, that doesn't tell you that their demo tester actually used this in competition (why would he?).

Re:What?

[Ungrounded Lightning]

FTS:
BusinessWeek looks at the world's fastest kayak, which floats over the water rather than nosing through waves like more typical boats.

Huh? Not remotely -- this is not a hovercraft. This is simply an ultra-light kayak with a differently shaped hull based on racing boat designs.

The blurb makes it sound like he added hydrofoils, so it would actually "fly", rasiing the hull (mostly?) out of the water.

I was excited by this, thinking that maybe somebody had figured out a way to do man-powered hydrofoils simply, in a solid, unjointed form. Perhaps by letting the hull tuch water occasionally to provide pitch control rather than providing something like a "skimmer" to sense the surface level and adjust the angle of the fore foil (requiring a pivot joint - a moving part in a seawater environment) or using angled foils penetrating the surface for feedback (and wasting power by having foils with lift in two directions canceling each other without canceling the associated drag).

But then I read the article.

It looks like he hung a couple "wing keels" on the hull, one fore one aft. Absent any lift on the wing (entirely separate from its normal function) to lift the hull and reduce its friction, this should do nothing but improve the hull's resistance to crosswise slippage from wind and improve its ability to maintain a course by resisting turning without adding appreciable drag. (Judging by the writeup, it didn't even do that well, or at all.)

(A wing keel is essentially a fin keel - a straight-down waterfoil - with the end cut off and a short crosswise wing (also foil-shaped for minimum friction) substituted, making an inverted "t" with a narrow crossbar. A fin keel resists side-slippage. But water runs around the end, so the last foot or so provides little side force and is just there to make the water take enough of a trip to keep the rest of the fin operating. Substituting a short crosswise wing for the end of the fin does the same job without penetrating as deep into the water - important if you want to work in shallows. The main downside is that as the hull heels over to one side you lose resistance to side-slippage a bit more abruptly.)

It would be interesting to see a writeup that actually tells us what this hull's design is supposedly accomplishing and how it does it, rather than making puffy claims followed by a meandering story that doesn't support them.

fastest?

[ceejayoz]

I'm guessing this one is faster. :-p

Re:fastest?

[$RANDOMLUSER]

A 7:11 minute video for a jet powered kayak? Why are so many YouTube videos so long? If I'm on the Internet, by definition I don't have that long an attention span.

Re:fastest?

[ceejayoz]

It's a race between it and a car, from the entertaining folks at TopGear.

nope

[majortom1981]

I saw one on I want that on hgtv that had this ski like thing on the bottom that was hard to balance but as soon as you got the hang of it it was much faster then regualr kyaks. This I do not thin kis the fastets.

Does it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if it's that fast, it has to run linux...

Overhyped article - a planing hull kayak

[truckaxle]

There are two types of hulls that you'll find in a boat (or kayak) - a planing hull and displacement hull. So this is a planing hull. The fact that it is designed by an MIT graduate using finite element analysis makes this news? And just what criteria are they using to make the claim that it is the "worlds fastest kayak"?

Re:Overhyped article - a planing hull kayak

[bano]

Not to mention that TFA wasn't about the boat entirely, it was about this douchy writers boating event, which just happend to be done in a new fancy kayak. Very light on technical details. Mostly fluff.

Re:Overhyped article - a planing hull kayak

[wsherman]

So this is a planing hull.

The article was light on details but it's not possible for a human kayaker to generate enough power to get the hull up "on plane". For purely human powered kayaks (not surfing waves) the fastest hulls are displacement hulls that minimize the wetted surface area of the hull cross section. That is, fast kayaks are very long and the hull cross section is a semi-circle (very hard to turn and very unstable).

Re:Overhyped article - a planing hull kayak

[kfg]

And just what criteria are they using to make the claim that it is the "worlds fastest kayak"?

The designer's computer said so. You wouldn't question the designer's computer, would you?

KFG

Re:Overhyped article - a planing hull kayak

[mdielmann]

And just what criteria are they using to make the claim that it is the "worlds fastest kayak"?

The only "they" that claimed it was the world's fastest was the submitter, bart_scriv, and I'm guessing the criteria was what would most likely get it accepted on slashdot. The article only mentions "one of the fastest in its class", a much more plausible and defensible statement.

But....

[Senner]

Does it run Linux?

Not really about the boat

[alop]

Anyone else notice that the article about "worlds fastest kayak" wasn't really about the boat. Seemed like it was more about a particular ride. I wanted specifics, ya know, more techie stuff like said 3d wire mesh or something.

Re:Not really about the boat

[andrewman327]

I agree that TFA is a little light on the science, but Business Week is not known for its tech coverage. I think the biggest thing that we can learn from this story is that it is a slow news day.

Re:Not really about the boat

[alop]

Must be a slow news day, yup

No Snow Crash reference yet?

[dpilot]

I'm surprised it's taken this long for anyone to mention Raven's high-speed kayak, not to mention his glass knives, considering the recent news.

Re:No Snow Crash reference yet?

[NekSnappa]

Are you suggesting high speed kayaks as a substitute for trans-Atlantic air travel, or making weapons from glass in order to more easily get them on a plane?

Or maybe the former as a result of the later.

Re:No Snow Crash reference yet?

[kfg]

Are you suggesting high speed kayaks as a substitute for trans-Atlantic air travel . . .

It's been done, more than once.

. . . or making weapons from glass in order to more easily get them on a plane?

When England first started talking about the possibility of a pointy knife ban I pointed out that all anyone who was bent on harm needed to craft a knife on the spot was a broken window and a roll of duct tape.

I wonder if I'll be getting a visit from men in black suits any time soon.

KFG

Wow

[VonSkippy]

Perhaps next he can put that world class education to really important stuff like lighter golf clubs or more aerodynamic bowling balls.

Re:Wow

[kfg]

. . .put that world class education to really important stuff like lighter golf clubs . . .

I make shafts from kevlar "wire." They're not only super light, but more aerodynamic as well. Once I lick the rigidity problem I'm golden.

. . .or more aerodynamic bowling balls

Here I ran into a snag. It turns out that since bowling balls constantly change their orientation the sphere is already the most aerodynmic shape, but if you want a 32g bowling ball I've got you covered.

And I'm working on a bowling "rod" made from kevlar wire, but there are several engineering problems to be solved first, not to mention some minor details with the tradtional, but antiquated, rules of the game.

KFG

Not quite...

[fish34]

Can it do 50mph? Guess not. Then its not as fast as Shaun Baker's jet kayak: http://jetkayak.co.uk/splash.htm (flash website)

Re:Not quite...

[Minshu]

Saw that jet kayak on Top Gear.... and it was FAST as far as kayaks go lol

NO! Here is the worlds fastest kayak!

[guysmilee]

Sorry this story is a wee bit false ... the below link is a video of the worlds real fastest kayak ... now this is cool!!! http://youtube.com/watch?v=ToUK6uEK6PI

Fastest human-powered actually

[StarfishOne]

Actually this is the fastest human-powered Kayak AFAIK.

On the British TV-show Top Gear, probably one of the most famous television shows about cars on Earth, a jetski-style powered Kayak was shown last year (Season 8, Episode 2 - 2006.05.14 to be precise). That thing was _really_ fast!

Video fragment can be found at YouTube.

These lil' babies

[Automat]

Practically fly themselves off the showroom floor.

--
Automation applied to an inefficient operation will magnify the inefficiency.

Re:The key to the speed besides the secret 10hp mo

[Itninja]

Yeah, AND you can totally Tokyo Drift race this thing. Because it's light. Word.

Beware Sleestak!

[krell]

"Can it go over a waterfall or down some steep rapids?"

Still looking for a way to return to the Land of the Lost, Rick Marshall?

motherfvcking...

[Anonymous Coward]

SNAKES.... ON A KAYAK!

Re:The key to the speed besides the secret 10hp mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Add an aluminum spoiler and a type-R sticker and it'll be nigh untouchable.

Re:Pony-tailed founder

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, that's hott!

But surely!

[Colin Smith]

That's all muscle! No?

Re:The key to the speed besides the secret 10hp mo

[AreaSI]

He learned a secret from the street racing ricers.
Add carbon fiber to ANYTHING and it will be faster!

This explains a lot about Chinese takeaway.

Flamebait! - WTF?

[Browzer]

o.k. my mistake... rather than researching slower floating devices, research should be concetrated on near-future under-water living.

But don't worry, at that point, humanity will adapt, considering our ancestors were very good swimmers.

Re:Flamebait! - WTF?

[geekoid]

I thought it was funny.

Build your own kayak

[Starker_Kull]

These are not the fastest kayaks, but it's fun doing it yourself (as well as cheaper!) - the owner of the business is a friend of mine, and used to be a professional sailor for 15 years...

http://www.unicornkayaks.com/

As Dave Chapelle would say

[jessecurry]

ballin'est shit evar!

Excellent point, but

[Red Flayer]

I think we know. The thing is mono-hulled, only 18 feet long, and has a traditional rudder. Even if you want to exclude catamaran and trimaran kayaks, you're not going to be able to compete with the fastest kayaks out there -- which are longer and have underwater foil rudders.

Now, if the question is whether or not this is the fastest kayak you can get for under $5k, maybe you're onto something.

Note that max speed increases as hull length increases, though this depends on the seas as well. And I'm also referring to straight-line speed, a more maneuverable kayak will outperform a very long one on there-and-back type races of moderate or short length.

Re:Excellent point, but

[Yokaze]

> Note that max speed increases as hull length increases

According my admittedly limited nautical knowledge, this rule (of thumb) relates to he hull speed, whereby the top-speed increases with the square-root of the waterline of the hull. This rule, however, applies only for swimming, single hull boats. This kayak is supposed to "floats over the water", so it has practically no drag, and hence, the rule does not apply.

Re:The key to the speed besides the secret 10hp mo

[The_Pariah]

And it's rear paddle drive! Sweet drifting machine

My only hope...

[denisbergeron]

Is that Celine Dion will buy one to GWB !

Speed and water resistance

[pjunold]

The expression 'world fastest kayak' is somewhat like 'world fastest running shoes'. Race kayaking is all about the motor and to a much lesser degree about the kayak.

It makes much more sense to speak about the water resistance of various kayak designs. For some given athlete(balance skills, strength and technique) racing some given distance in some given conditions one could even speak of an optimal design. As a general example - the kayaks used for sprint racing are different from the kayaks used for marathon racing.

On a related note genetic algorithms have been applied to the problem of finding an optimal hull given a number of constraints: http://www.cyberiad.net/library/kayaks/racing/raci ng.htm
Nothing revolutionary turned out though.

/Peter

I still prefer the MIT's

[WormholeFiend]

Decavitator

Re:I still prefer the MIT's

[the.Ceph]

Ha! That is exactly what I was thinking.

Less than an hour ago I was staring at it thinking "I really should try to make one of those." Of course that train of thought is always followed by... I think I like Daedelus more. Which is then followed by an image of me crashing into a mountain and I decide I should probably just get back to work.

Re:The key to the speed besides the secret 10hp mo

[GMontag]

So, does that make it a hybrid?

I am a little fuzzy on that word now that it is misapplied to almost any modification of anything that moves or not.

I know Ted

[notthepainter]

We sometimes crewed on the same sailboat out of Beverly Harbor on the Thursday night races. His sailboat web site is http://www.warrenmultihulls.com.nyud.net:8090/. (Coral cached)

I've done a bit of sailing on the Warren 35 that is based in Beverly. Quite a trick boat, 35 foot trimiran that is trailerable. Another awesome one is Tiny Dancer I and II, both proas (think two hulled trimaran...) We kidded him with Tiny Dancer II did make the weight goal of 100lbs.

Nice to see him in the news. Check out his web site, he's a good guy.

Paul

Love the .sig!

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, yea and it sounds like Eve Fairbanks is a little fuzzy too!

What makes this the worlds fastest kayak?

[viking2000]

The only support for the statement that this is the worlds fastest kayak is:

1. The builder goes to MIT
2. The journalist thinks it is fast.

You start to wonder what kind of people goes to MIT. If you, dear /. reader, went to the newspaper to tell them you had built the worlds fastest something, (say car).

Would you not have some data to support your claim? A radar gun readout? A win in some competition? Anything?

Re:What makes this the worlds fastest kayak?

[Software]

The story submitter took one word, fastest, and used it out of context.

Article: "the carbon-fiber craft is one of the lightest and fastest in its class"

Story: "BusinessWeek looks at the world's fastest kayak"

Neither the MIT-educated engineer or the BusinessWeek writer said it was the fastest; the story submitter (who presumably did not go to MIT) did. So you shouldn't wonder about what kind of people go to MIT, but instead should wonder about those who submit (and edit) Slashdot stories.

Article Is Self Promotion

[aldheorte]

Article summary: Rich yuppy buys overly expensive kayak because it is "fast" and "looks like a ferrari", although he is unable to explain why, from a technical perspective, it is any better than a regular kayak. He almost exclusively talks about his little vignette of crossing the Long Island Sound in it, pandering on about how he was buying the $5000 kayak so he could get sponsors to give $500 or so to "needy children" for his little cross bay adventure. He gives props to his friends, who will no doubt be tickled to be in BusinessWeek.

Before you mod troll, read article and you will see it is completely devoid of any technical or scientific interest. Slashdot's slogan is "stuff that matters". This stuff does not.

It sure can

[geekoid]

if you can paddle fast enough!

actually

[geekoid]

they are talking about the design being 'fast'.
So if it was jet powered, it would go faster then oterh ones useing the same power.

Re: Inuit

[jpkeating]

This anecdote, if true, must be relatively recent -- this clearly is not a guy whose life, and that of his family, depended on his ability to hunt from his kayak in any weather. Traditionally, Arctic peoples certainly could roll, with differences among cultures. Hunters who used kayaks could roll even if they lost their paddle or dislocated a shoulder. Even so, kayak deaths were common. From what I understand, children learning to kayak first learned how to brace ("leaning" on the water with a moving paddle) to keep from capsizing in the first place, then learned how to roll up, and only later learned how to paddle forward. Their kayaks were narrow and sat low in the water, both of which made rolling easier and helped keep the kayak from getting blown around. They also wore one-piece sealskin jackets whose bottoms were tied around the hatch, keeping the paddler warmer and drier than modern equipment does. For a list (with pictures) of capsize maneuvers performed at the Greenland championships, including rolling without a paddle while holding an 8-kg stone, see http://216.92.139.192/QK/rolls/rolls.html.

viking longboat?

[CAIMLAS]

Is it just me, or does this kayak look a hell of a lot like a Viking longboat?

Viking longboats were well known for being fast, sleek in the water, and capable of traversing the shallowest of waterways - kinda like what a kayak is intended to do.

I personally wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if he copied the general design of a longboat while making it slightly more streamlined and rounded on the topside.

A(nother) kayakers perspective

[Evil Oli]

Having been paddling for several years competitively I can make the following observations:

1. Yes paddling on flat water is different to paddling on ocean/sea conditions. Generally it is harder and slower paddling in choppy water, however if you are experienced you will know how to best make use of the wind and weather conditions in order to increase your speed. Depending on the swell and wind direction you can quite often get equal speed compared to flat water and sometimes much greater speeds if assisted by good swell.

2. Carbon fibre is nothing flashy in a kayak; most competition kayaks, and increasing numbers of recreational kayaks are made with carbon fibre.

3. US$5000 is way too much to spend on something that is so ugly and slow as this kayak. You can easily pick up a K1 racing kayak weighing around 20-25 pounds which would go much faster for around US$2000-2500. And THAT is expensive.

4. Judging by the content of the article, and despite the author being a novice, you would expect an amazingly fast kayak to be faster than the reported time. Much cheaper and probably stabler kayaks are faster and cost less (and are less ugly).

I could go on and on. The whole article and indeed the kayak itself are all wrong.

Re:A(nother) kayakers perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

5. Foilkayak is probably faster

Re:A(nother) kayakers perspective

[Evil Oli]

The foil kayak is proven to be extremely hard to paddle, stability-wise. You also need to generate a hell of a lot of speed before it rises out of the water. As far as record breaking goes, it does well but you're screwed if you want to paddle it competively as it doesn't fit any any restricted category.