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SanDisk Releases New iPod rival
codemachine writes "SanDisk has released its new iPod rival: the new Sansa e280 music player. It has twice the capacity of the iPod nano at a similar price. Even better, it can be expanded through its mini-SD slot, and comes with an FM tuner. The device is said to work well with both Windows and Linux, without adding any drivers. Some work on reverse engineering this product line has already begun. Might this be a great alternative MP3 player for Linux users?"
The wax cylinders I listened to as a kid sound so much better than anything today.
Then again, it could just be my hearing is shot from all that fighting in the Great War.
There is so much to comment on here - I have no idea where to start!
First - FTFA:
Includes the Sansa Media Converter to support all picture and video formats
All video formats? (raises eyebrow?) I f#cking doubt it. How about DRMd WMV9? I doubt it can handle HD content too!
Minimum System Requirements
* Windows XP
* Windows Media Player 10+
Uh-huh. Good linux support there!
Lastly, FTFS:
Might this be a great alternative MP3 player for Linux users?
Linux users have better support for iPods than windows itunes users do - they can copy songs off the iPod to another computer (without stupid third party addons, weird hacks, or scary warnings). They can also use iPods that with HFS filesystems. All seamlessly.
I guess it could be argued that most linux users would prefer a music player from a company that doesn't push DRM heavily (but sandisk pushes DRM as much as Apple does.
Still, twice the space & lighter than the equivilant ipod. Sounds if not good, then less crap. Let's hope their rockbox strategy works - that would really make a difference.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
...Interestingly, the battery is user-replacable. Apple, please take note!
Where there is the necessary technical skill to move mountains, there is no need for the faith that moves mountains.
Does it have the bright white "please rob me" earbuds?
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Rather than an iPod rival, they should have released an iPod killer. Doomed to failure.
I'll leave the "no wifi, meh" quotes to others!
I don't use my iPod + iTunes because it is cheaper than anything else. I use it because it "just works". All of the media available on the Music Store don't hurt either.
I haven't read the article, but what software do you use to add songs to this player? I doubt it uses iTunes, and I doubt it is as simple as moving a directory over to it.
Yes, it is truly amazing that major electronics manufacturers haven't taken the time to adopt a format that a minuscule percentage of their target audience uses to encode their music. I also cant believe no one make a wheel chair accessible treadmill. Bastards.
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. ;-)
It's a Zune killer! 8^)
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I highly recommend it. :D
.:bleaked
...expansion slot. Less capacity and more expensive at the moment.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
If you buy this for your girlfriend, she'll just look at you funny. (yes, i know, its /., bear with me) If you buy her an ipod, though, she'll pretty much have to (tm).
stuff |
Notably absent are any specs on the unit at all. I was interested in the dimensions of the actual unit. The closest thing I could come up with were some figures in the user guide that appear to indicate that the device is about twice as thick as an iPod Nano. Hardly an iPod rival. Apple will be bumping up the Nano line any time now.
cat
The Sansa e200 is MSC compliant it will work with any OS. There are plenty of users using it on Ubuntu and OSX! Here is an example of a Ubuntu user posted in the ABi Sansa Forums. So maybe you need to educate yourlesf before posting.
Pros of this player over a nano:
Cons:
- a little thicker
- not as slick (ie the mechanical scroll wheel)
- not as many accessories (just try to find an arm strap and case!)
- I'm told the video compression it uses when stored on the player isn't that good.
- can only store music on the microSD card, not pictures or movies
All the user reviews I've read seem positive on the whole and a lot of people like it better then nano's they've owned or bought for the wife/girlfriend, etc.Looks worth a look though.
You make a good point, but because it would be royalty free, you would think manufactures would start including it in an attempt to begin replacing mp3. Since the change wouldn't cost the users anything, it would be in the manufacturers best interest to do this together.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
almost, but the ipod still has a scroll wheel.
It is in the manufacturer's "best interest" to support what their customers want.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I welcome any MP3 player for Windows that doesn't (a) hijack my file associations (b) install at least two services that launch on startup (c) freeze my entire system if the device is unexpectedly unplugged (d) try to re-invent my GUI to look like another OS using non-accessible controls (e) allow me to easily access the device itself without crazy hacks and (f) uninstall cleanly.
:-)
Works better on Mac, I know
I just bought an iRiver T30. It's tiny and light; much of its weight is the replacable AAA battery (up to 24 hours per charge). One reason to choose iRiver: Ogg Vorbis support. I don't think it does FLAC, but might (I don't have any files to test it) and it should support WMA Lossless. Don't know about AAC or M4A. Many iRiver players have FM tuners too.
I also like the audio quality, not that I'm any kind of audiophile. Pretty good equalizer options, including SRS WOW support and user-customizable EQ. I have not yet tested its microphone (built in audio recording, automatically compressed to MP3 I think) but that's another nice feature.
Cost me $38 for 1GB. No SD expansion port, but it works as a simple USB device (like most DAPs). WMP is an easy way to organize, make playlists, and sync (well, WMP11 is) but completely unneeded. I haven't hooked it up to my Linux box yet (JUST got it) but I would be very surprised if I couldn't copy audio on and off. Windows identifies its partition as standard FAT 16.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Here's a picture of it with headphones plugged in. Gives a pretty good idea of scale.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
Hmmmm, as there is no official iPod software for Linux users at all, I'd say all Linux software to use iPods would fall under "stupid third party addons" and "weird hacks", no?
iTunes doesn't DRM ripped music. You can take an iTunes ripped AAC and play it on anything that supports the industry standard AAC. The ONLY files that are DRMed are the ones from the iTunes music store.
I went to the additonal information and downloaded the user guide..
The player has two modes. One mode is like an external USB drive and supports MP3's. That should work just fine for Linux. Two drives will show. One is the internal memory and the other is the SD card.
The other mode the player supports if for subscription services and uses Windows DRM. For Linux users this is a useless feature along with the Windows requirement and anything secure WMA files.
Thought you should know.
The section in the manual covers some FAQ's including why some DRM WMA files won't play and some stuff of expiration of files by the copyright holders.. Funny these are features of the Microsoft Plays for Sure stuff.
I think I'll stick to MP3's as they play for sure.
I'm not so sure about the Microsoft's Plays for Sure content. It sounds like it might not play for sure.
The truth shall set you free!
If it had an AM tuner, I might look into it.
Where were you when the voynix came?
I have had a 6GB Sansa e260 for a month+ and really really like it.
i ew.aspx
I think it blows the ipod away
Here is a short review I wrote up last month:
http://www.chrismay.org/2006/07/15/MySansaE200Rev
Video review of its immeadiate predecessor
:-P
DISCLAIMER : I will not claim at any point that this is the best player out there. I do wish to point out some of its features though to people who criticize players that have interfaces that aren't the same as the iPod.
Nice iPodish menu, yes it has software hich is as simple as drag and drop. You cant complain about the player interface. What about the software? My karma has gone through the wringer before because of Apple fanboys who complain that players don't work with iTunes.
No it doesn't work with iTunes because iTMS is DRMed so nothing is going to work with iTMS except iPod unless Apple gets bashed for anti-competetive practices. Seriously people how do you expect anything to work with iTunes when Apple prevents anything from working with iTMS. if you are going to compare electronics compare them on features that both devices can reasonably implement. You might as well complain that square pegs do not fit in round holes. You are entirely allowed to have iTunes compatability be your killer feature. Just recognize that this does lock you into Apple. And that you'd whine if it was Microsoft instead of Apple.
Yes it has pretty decent video - Nano does not have video and its screen is smaller. No it doesn't support every video/audio codec out there but it gives you good variety. Other things it beats the Nano at, user replaceable battery, FM and voice recording, plus the micro SD card to take the e280 from 8 to 10 gb. No rob me headphones but you can buy some lovely white headphones to work with it if you really want. So if you want a player that has a lot more features and you happen a non-DRMed music library then this is easily as good as the iPod.
If you don't mind the interface and I for one don't mind a slightly more clunky interface for more features then there are several other players out there. Might I recommend the Cowon iAudio line. I've already lost some karma arguing that the interface isn't the be all and end all so I'm not claiming that these features will make something an iPod killer. If the iTMS compatability is that important to you stick with iPod. Your call and you are entirely entitled to it. Good for you. I'll chuckle as I record my next semesters lectures and recall that I paid less for a player for a player with more storage, and a bigger battery that has already lasted longer than a couple of my friends iPods
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
I'm one of those odd folks who uses a portable audio device almost solely for listening to podcasts and audiobooks. And it's clear that SanDisk has basically written us off.
I've owned two versions of SanDisk's Digital Audio Player, the original 256MB version and the version 2 1GB model. Ironically, audiobook support decreased between the two versions. Version 1 supported Audible formats 2 through 4 (4 being the highest quality), Version 2 supports only 2 and 3. Version 1 would save your place in a file when you switched to the radio and back, Version 2 doesn't. Version 1 let you increase playback speed up to 130%, version 2 has no speed options. In other words, all of the spoken-word-friendly features were dropped.
Now the e280 appears to have no support for Audible format (though it may be undocumented; I did check the full PDF User's Manual), no bookmarking or other features designed for long spoken-word files.
My next MP3 device purchase is going to be an iPod Nano. Sorry, SanDisk, you've lost me.
Regarding 4, you can replace the battery in an iPod by yourself in a few minutes if it is no longer holding a charge. My girlfriend replaced her iPod Mini battery for less than $20 on her own, and it's working as if it were new. Alternately, you can buy third-party battery packs to address any variety of power needs (including one that allows you to use AA batteries in a pinch). Regarding 5, it's my understanding that color screens allow a UI designer to fit more information in a smaller space, while keeping it readable (versus only having a few shades of grey to work with). I have a nano, and I have to agree with this after using the previous greyscale iPods, even if I can't fully explain the technical details of why this is true.
I've got one as well, but a word of warning to other's considering the T30. Models sold in America and Europe (generally) do not "function like a USB device" - i.e. as a UMS - USB Mass Storage device, though the version sold elsewhere in the world apparently does. Instead, they use MTP (Microsoft's Terrible Protocol ;) making it generally a pig to get working with Linux. (I'm sure google or wikipedia will give you the real definition ;-)
Models sold elsewhere (Asia, etc.) apparently are shipped as proper UMS devices.
It's possible to flash it's firmware to "fix" this, and making it a proper UMS device, but in doing so, I believe you lose the ability to play DRMd music. (That's what I've done with mine.) Google will give you a link.
I've also got a T20 - same issues, though not tried flashing it yet.
Supports Vorbis and flacc, mounts as mass storage, Fm tuner, built in enconder, man just buy one now.
I've been eyeing this audio player for a while now. 30GiB HDD, MP3/FLAC/OGG/ playback, TXT/JPG display, works as a mass storage device under Linux. Also as an FM tuner and a voice recorder. X5 is 20GiB big, with a 14h battery, while the X5L is 30 or 40 (can't remember) GiB big with a 35h battery. Has had some firmware updates based on user input/requests. It's pretty cool, it also advertises some linux love on its tech specs' section. The problem is the price: 400Euros. Less know, yes, but it still got 3rd place (a couple of months ago) on the c|net reviews.
I have an e250 and while it only has a 2Gig capacity, that's more than enough for a full day of work - even a bit of overtime. If I get tired of my ripped CD's, I can always tune in FM radio.
The best part? Now that my coworkers are used to seeing it on me, I can use the handy record feature to blackmail^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H keep track of important notes... yeah, yeah... that's it....I'm using it for note-taking.
Biggest disappointment: No Win2K support. Yes, that's an old OS, but it's where I rip all my CD's. Fortunately, it's only a minor slowdown to load music from a different machine.
I've had the unit for a month now and am really happy with it. I would recommend these to anyone looking for an MP3 player.
And someone has produced a pretty credible knockoff with a couple of bonus features 99% of users won't use or care about.
1) It looks quite nice.
2) It probably won't sell very well anyway.
3) Apple's replacement for the Nano will quite likely be nicer in ways Sandisk hasn't anticipated.
Oh well, let's see what they produce 18 months from now.
I own a Sansa e250, which is the 2GB version of this player. The only major problem I have with it is that I didn't get the 4gb or 6gb version that were out at the time!
I can mount it as a drive in Linux, drag and drop music to it, viola!
The video playback may be a gimmick, but it isn't bad. Also, the FM reception leaves much to be desired... the sound is decent, but the range isn't very good.
All in all, this is a great line of players. The design was well thought out, menus are very attractive, the wheel is somewhat clunky but I think it is easier to use than the "touch" wheel that everyone goes ga-ga over (including my fiance, she loves her iPod). It's mechanical, and I feel like I have more control over it.
Hope my own testimonial can help someone decide if they like this player.
Starmen.net
Yes, there is a Rockbox port. Daniel is the one working on it. In fact, Sandisk has contacted Rockbox developers about the port, and even mailed them a "development" version of the player, with a JTAG flashing cable attached. It's pretty cool- hopefully it will work well. The sandisk player is based on the PortalPlayer chip, which is very similar to iPod.. this is a slightly upgraded chip, and I believe it has two ARM cores. So effectively you have a dual-core MP3 player.
I've always wanted an IPod...but my wife has been talking about satellite radio - so I took a look at what was available.
Not only do they provide a satellite reciever, but the units also come with USB connectivity and an MP3 player capability - in additiona to docking stations for automobiles. You can upload your music to the machine and listen to it, and you can save satellite programming as MP3 for later download (reverse pod-cast?).
She is particularly interested in satellite radio because she doesn't care to sit down and find pod-casts, or music online --- she just wants to spin a dial and get a selection of music and talk radio on the fly. She also saw the benefit of being able to save what was currently playing to share with me - so she doesn't have to remember all the details to harange me by word-of-mouth later on - she can just put it on my multimedia server on my upload directory - so my player can automagically slirp it up (oh joy...).
At least I know what to get her for her birthday this year. I think I'll stick with an MP3 player myself - when I save enough money to get one.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
In the old tube days, manufacturers bought tube bases that had only the exact number of pins that were actually used by the tube in order to save a penny per radio. If a particular octal (8 pin) based tube only used 5 pins, only 5 of the 8 holes in the socket had pins. It adds up, 5 tube sockets per radio x 1 cents per socket x 1,000 radios = $50.00. Then there was the 5 cents saved by using cardboard on the back of the radio instead of masonite, which saved another $50.00 per radio. Pinch pennies, count beans, save money.
For what it's worth, I have a SanDisk SDMX1 MP3/WMA player (256M version) and it's really pretty nice. The physical design is no marvel of engineering, but it worked flawlessly with Linux with no effort. It appears as a standard USB mass storage device. It's got an FM tuner and voice recorder (only records WAV format, though), too. The best part is that I paid $15 (yes, fifteen dollars) for it on Woot a couple weeks ago. Hell of a deal. I bought one for my girlfriend, too (and only paid $5 shipping for the whole order).
I don't know, but I think the RoverTv is ultimately more compelling than getting this...
http://www.rovertv.net/
Granted, it only has a 2gb card included, but it's small form factor (almost all just screen) make up for that to me... If you haven't seen this device, you should definitely take a look.
Consumers don't want vorbis or mp3, they want music.
I'm pretty sure they want mp3. Depending on which server you hit at that link, you'll get anywhere from 785,000,000 to 1,085,000,000 results.
Vorbis, on the other hand, has only around 12,000,000 results.
I think in this case, it's wrong to assume that customers don't know or care what format they're using. In order to even *have* mp3's, most people would have had to make a conscious decision to either rip or acquire them that way - because none of the major label-supported download services offer that format (I know, Emusic does), and the two biggest library/ripping apps (iTunes and WMP) rip to other formats by default.
In fact, the "industry" has been actively trying to kill off mp3 for years now, because of the DRM issue. Windows Media 8 or 9 didn't even include mp3 ripping as an option at all until people complained, and then the initial "fix" only let you rip at up to 64kbps. Apple and MS have both been hyping their own formats as sounding better than mp3 (which is, on average, bullshit). And the record industry won't put any of their music on the market in the format.
Device manufacturers, though, have learned the hard way that not supporting mp3 is a death knell. Sony was forced to support it after their non-mp3 DAPs failed to even make a dent in the market. And this was back when it still wasn't clear who was going to win the DAP war; Apple was the early leader but it still seemed like anyone's game. Sony threw their chance away by not supporting mp3 from the start; they've never recovered from that blunder. The lead Apple built while Sony's early players languished on the market is now pretty much insurmountable.
Meanwhile, MS is about to dump their unsuccessful Windows Media format with the Zune; or at least, they haven't committed to it one way or another. They will be supporting mp3, however, because you don't beat the iPod by refusing to support the biggest format out there.
All of this shows that consumers sure do know what format they want their music in and that format is mp3. In fact, most people still buy CD's and rip their own music to mp3 themselves.
Device manufacturers will start to support vorbis I'd imagine when the public decides that's what it wants to use... which means never.
I know some people have some sort of philosophical/political attachment to ogg vorbis as a non-proprietary codec. But you should take your victories where you can, and you should look at the popularity of mp3 in that light. It may be a proprietary format but for users, it is also an unencumbered, universally-supported format. Users are choosing it over the even more tightly controlled formats favored by Microsoft, Apple and the RIAA. And they're bucking predictions of mp3's demise that have been made by analysts for years and continue to be made today. It's just never going to happen.
I admit that it looks like a 1908's garage door opener
What would that look like? A hook on the end of a long wooden pole?
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
That's not my primary reason for preferring OGG over MP3. It's the sound quality for the same sized file. That's it.
The sound quality is the reason I'm slowly re-ripping my entire music collection and converting to OGG instead of the original MP3.
The fact that it's non-proprietary and free is just a bonus.
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes genius. -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
The name is horrible. Sansa e280 doesn't roll off the tongue as easily as iPod.
"It is in the manufacturer's "best interest" to support what their customers want."
So why do they bother including support for DRM'ed Microsoft formats? Seriously who wants that rubbish, but just about every new portable player includes it.
1- All the iPods have dual ARM cores.
2- Sandisk has been milking rockbox for good press. They haven't delivered half of what they promised to the developers. Reverse engineering the bootloader (for starters) would not be needed if Sandisk wanted anything more than good press from rockbox.
From Daniel Stenberg's own site:
"We didn't get anything to help us actually make Rockbox to these players. We got two players, yes, but we got no info, no docs. No help at all."
I dub thee... Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, Beater of Ass.