Slashdot Mirror
Dell Battery Recall- Win for the Web
conq writes "BusinessWeek has an article on how the Dell recalls show the true power of the web and how the attack on the Dell batteries evolved on the web. From the article:
But in cyberspace the race was on to dig out every last byte of 'truth' about those flaming PCs. Gadget news blogs like Gizmodo and Engadget spat out facts and rumors with equal zeal. They were relentless advocates for the consumer, too. On July 31, Engadget posted photos of a Dell notebook that had caught fire in Singapore. Its comment: 'We'll keep posting these until we see a recall or a solution, so please, Dell, treat 'em right.'"
could sell those laptops in the fire starters section of hardware stores.
Their notebooks were exploding and catching fire as well. They've been making explosives for longer than Dell, so they have a bit more experience. You think they would have recalled earlier, but they decided to wait.
Cool! First Po...(bang!)
This, of course, assumes that "the web" was directly at cause for the eventual recall.
Having worked QA for a competitor of Dell's that's under similar scrutiny, and knowing what mechanisms we had in place, I would imagine that the various bloggers had - at best - a tangential relationship to the end game here. Of course, that's assuming that Dell has QA mechanisms in place that are at least half as smart as ours were...
woof!
Sure it did. How about linking to an article that actually says something about exploding batteries rather than an anti-Mac troll?
There is no reason to think that JUST because the images and such where going around the web, Dell wouldnt have recalled them any later than they had. For one thing the recall hardly effected Dell, as the batteriers themselves where Sonys fuckup not theirs (and as such are effecting Apple too and possibly other companes) Secondly there is no evidence that it was just because of the exploding battery incidents that they where recalled.... they could have been planning a recall well before this.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
In many ways, this can only be a good thing. Years ago, it was always a bit easier for companies to have defective products or bad customer service because there was no way to really get information out to the masses.
Because information can now get distributed to millions of people by pressing an Enter key, it's great to see that things like this can be exposed. If anything, this should make companies look more closely at product quality and customer service -- or so we would hope. After all, a common mantra in marketing circles is that people rarely say anything when a product does what it's expected to do, but you can be sure they'll let as many people as possible know when something goes wrong.
What is so important about this? The internet helps people find information? Journalists cultravate sources in companies they cover? None of this is that newsworthy.
Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
I'm really sick of these "bloggers are great" article. There are hundreds of thousands of blogs out there. Nearly all of them are irrelevent crap. Some have evolved through effort and investment into almost proper news sites. Congratualtions to them. Now stop calling yourself blogs. You're news sites (because you don't just post unsubstanciated crap).
:)
Face it folks, your "blogosphere" is a mob of people who believe anything that their favorite "blog aka news site" posts, and that is ANYTHING AT ALL at times, and repost it themselves, often not even bothering to change a single character. They have no power, and never will. It's essentially the same as the fat outraged bloke in the pub that never shuts up about what he read in The Sun, despite not ever checking facts, figures, or common sense. I wish people would stop glamorising this crap.
And I'd like to say one more time, to all those who DO use their brains, and use sources, and not fly off the handle (like the O'Reilly incident), thanks for the news.
To Slashdot I say: Check the stories.
End of Rant
Rational thought is the only true freedom
I'm waiting for an episode of Survivor Man where they give him a Dell laptop instead of a box of matches.
[beavis voice:] "Fire, Fire, Fire!!!"
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
A testament indeed to the power of the web. And the power of exploding batteries as satire fodder.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Why do you think these companies recalled the batteries? By choice? No, once it was discovered the laptops could explode the government forced the recall so terrorists would not buy hundreds of laptops and turn them on while flying...
Think about it.
Quality Hosting e3 Servers
Didn't Apple just recall well over a million batteries for pretty much the same exact reason?
Why is it that when someone like Dell has a problem leading to a recall it's assumed they were doing something wrong. Either they're trying to cover up defects, or they're unresponsive to customers or everything they make is crap.
Why is it that when the same exact thing happens with Apple suddenly the apologists come out of the woodwork. The defect isn't Apple's fault first of all, and when Apple finally gets around to acknowledging the problem and recalls the product people insist that it proves they care about the customer.
Dell laptops come with defective Sony batteries: Dell is crap.
Apple laptops come with defective Sony batteries: It's all Sony's fault.
Dell recalls batteries: Dell would never have initiated the recall if it hadn't been for bloggers.
Apple recalls batteries: Behold Apple's benevolence.
When the "blog-O-sphere" gets it wrong, will there be any mainstream media left that's not already been cyber-whipped and pixel-chastised enough who might call them on it?
The Guillotine has gone out of fashion, and been replaced by The Drudge Report. That still places civilization ahead.
I think...
There will come a day when innuendo replaces fact, thanks to the rapidity with which things spread on the Internet. One blogger picks up on something, two more repeat it, and so forth and so on. Of course, like the game we all used to play in school, where someone whispered something to you, and you to the next person, invariably the original message becomes garbled. The Internet is just a large example of this, as the story gets repeated and tweaked with each iteration, as bloggers apply their own personal view to it. There comes a point where fact-checking is impossible, because the "facts" are no longer that, facts.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Sure recall the laptop batteries, but they do nothing for GX270 & 280 owners that have machines stuffed with a failing batch of Nichicon capacitors produced in 2003... The Nichicons produced before and after that batch are perfectly fine, just that one batch from is bad.
h mentid=1553&stc=1
h mentid=431
g =nl
g =nl
n ews
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attac
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/attachment.php?attac
Dell is doing something about the problem, but for the most part, a lot of people are not even aware of the problem...
http://news.com.com/Bulging+capacit...742.html?ta
http://news.com.com/Dells+third-qua...630.html?ta
http://news.com.com/Dells+dilemma--...26477&subj=
The flaming Dell battery story was first published by theinquirer.net. People believed it because the Inquirer hasn't been an ad whore like most of the other online tech news sites have.
There's a TV programme in the UK called Watchdog. They complain to companies on behalf of customers, who have not been able to get the service they expect. The amalgamation of many complaints plus the visible negative publicity usually gets the company to change their position.
How is this any different? It's not a win for the web at all, but a win for people who complain en masse, and a win for negative publicity shocking a company into action.
Apparently Dell were "EMBRACING THE BLOGOSPHERE". Yet this only happened after the recall was announced.
Back in the "old" days B.I. (Before Internet) the Consumers Union - through it's publication Consumer Reports magazine - was the sole activist organization in North America that acted on behalf of consumers. That's where folks found out if a specific car would roll over in a normal emergency turn of the steering wheel - and kill those in the car. Of course there was a time lag of up to three months before the info. came out in the magazine.
The internet naturally speeds up the process (three cheeers); but at the same time, the amount of disinformation on the internet is gigantic - my guess is that 98% of all info. on the internet is either totally wrong or is so bias on one level or another - that it is useless.
Been looking at one site that is supposedly set up to help people invest "wisely". The number of investing urban myths posted about investing by "experts" in the forums is constant. And of course if one posts contrary opinions (just like in Slashdot, or Wikipedia) - the attacks are instant, and never ending
Which is why 4,000,000 a month people still go and buy Consumer Reports magazine. Yes I know CR has a web site - but it's primarily a marketing tool
The last article may have incited a flame war against Bush, but the article was about the closing of research libraries, which should be something nerds would care about, I know the jocks won't care.
My old battery's getting worn out, I could use a free replacement. W00t. Now let's hope the old one doesn't go kaboom and I should be fine. Will karma bite me in the butt for taking advantage of this?
Y helo thar
I thought the Howard Dean fiasco had finally gotten rid of this "true power of the web" crap.
I order you to breathe! Good! Now, keep breathing for the rest of your life! You are obeying my every command! Witness my magical mind control powers!
If there's one thing that's missing in our modern hi-tech society it's modern hi-tech assessment of risk.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Are you 14? Nerds and Jocks? You forgot the preppies and stoners. What about the goths? Will they care? This is supposed to be a forum for intelligent discussion; at least, that's what I thought /. was about. Get past your stereo types and use your head. I was a so-called "jock" in highschool (I won't date myself by stating when I graduated), because I love to play football. But, I also happen to love math, physics, and education in general.
So am I a jerd or a nock? Does this have anything to do with the fact that the liability from these batteries may be Dell's at first blush, but you would be mistaken to think that this is really a black eye for Sony? Do you think that Sony won't step up to the plate to take the short-term hit in the pocket in order to keep customer confidence (customer defined as major companies such as Apple and Dell) in order to maintain their long term profitable contracts with their customers? Or am I just a dumb jock who doesn't care?
Ten or twenty people having laptops catch fire isn't enough to motivate Apple or Dell or Sony, but the prospect of a 747 going up in flames is.
Three Squirrels
"CTV reporter David Akin blogs a comment that suggests that the real reason for the sudden battery recall was:"
/ 8/25/2265154.html
Hmm, missed this somehow...
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006
Three Squirrels
Start a forum about how much taxes we pay and maybe something will be done about that too!
Sniper's Motto: One shot, One kill- If you run, you'll only die tired.
Without the might power of flaming Youtube videos, I am sure the recall would have taken DAY later.
I am sure that UPS and the USPS, for example, don't give a fig if a plane with some laptops on it catches on fire every now and then. They are huge evil corporations! Keep it up INTERWEB! SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER!
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
How is it that we netizens seemingly can effect change on an issue like this, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty minor, but are at the same time seemingly unable to effect changes on issues which really effect us (bad laws governing the internet, DRM, etc)? It seems like all we care about are things which cause problems with our material goods, rather than things which can potentially effect us personally...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
A new laptop built by my company is shipped to a user. The battery overheats and the laptop catches on fire burning a persons lap and manly goodness. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of laptops in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
What company do you work for?
A big one.
on June 29th 2006 Dell said that they were looking into the burning laptop(according to engadget). This was most likely not because the web told them to. Then about 20 days later on July 18th I believe Dell was no longer selling the batteries. the time in between was probably in prep for a full recall and the time before that was probably going through sony and legal. First you have to get the stock in to cover over 4 million computers as well as sustain your current stock(your not wanting to shut down production because your using your current battery supply to replace bad ones). Then you have to setup the proceedure for the return and then setup the website and setup a call center or train your current ones to take the calls. Then you have to setup PR and all that before you let it go into the wild. This is most likely a long process going through lawyers and making sure you talk to sony which would also be a delay. I'm sure that Dell had this thought out long before the engadget and other sites jumped on it. I think they might have hurried the processes along a little more, but I don't think that would fit into their plan of attack on the issue.
This has always been true with any media.
You have those you trust, and those you don't. As with most fact-checking, it's not a good idea to search in the same media form for corroboration.
Eventually we will have news sites on the web that we trust -- the question is whether they will pick up on 'small' news stories. Once they do, you can bet that they'll properly fact-check almost all the time, since their reputation and livelihood depend upon it.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
You can apply the same rant to the magazine rack at Barnes & Noble.
99% of any source of information is going to be noise that isn't relevant to you even if it is of acceptable quality.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
My guess is that the Business Week author is too young to remember how a 1994 post by Terje Mathisen to comp.sys.intel on USENET ultimately resulted in the recall of millions of Intel Pentium chips for the fdiv bug.
Because, basically:
- Apple is the underdog, holding onto a tiny percentage of a market dominated by Wintel machines
- Dell is the top dog, the biggest OEM in the Wintel arena
So, of course, Dell must be evil and crap just because it's the top dog. And conversely Apple must be lawful good and pure technical excellence just because it's the underdog.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Face it folks, your "blogosphere" is a mob of people who believe anything that their favorite "blog aka news site" posts, and that is ANYTHING AT ALL at times, and repost it themselves, often not even bothering to change a single character.
Compare with traditional news media, that believe anything that their favourite news wire (AP, PA, Reuters) post, and reprint/broadcast it without bothering to change a single character.
Well, since we're submitting anecdotal evidence, I have two Dell servers which have been running for 2 and 3 years straight without a single failure of any type. I have a laptop which recently had a mobo problem, and after calling in and getting a rep in under 2 minutes (yes, I have the corporate service, though I only have 4 employees), and after 15 minutes of trouble shooting (half of which was win boots), he authorized a replacement, and it arrived and was installed the next day at 10am. He also sent a replacement cover which I mentioned had some cosmetic damage, as well as a couple extra of the ubiquitous "pop off feet" Dell insists on using (I find epoxy works better than their PSA in keeping them in place).
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
On the bright side, that's not what it happened. Sony was already recalling the batteries, Apple had already paved the way, and all that was left for Dell was the formality of asking people to ship back the batteries and forward them to Sony. In the end it's _Sony_'s recall, not Dell's, and Sony is paying all the expenses for it.
Dell is just an intermediary in that operation, and would have more to lose if they didn't take part. The choice being (A) recall the batteries at exactly 0 (ZERO) dollars own cost, and look good and caring in the process, and (B) refuse Sony's money and come out looking like a prick to your customers... Dell's choice was obvious. It didn't need the "blogosphere" to make that choice.
Noone really gives a fuck about the "blogosphere" at the moment, other than small groups of mutually-backpatting bloggers polishing each other's statue. They'll love taking credit for stuff like this, but it wasn't their doing. And more importantly, traditional media was never in any danger from them yet. Traditional media faces its own hurdles, but the blogosphere doesn't even come close to being a problem.
So to answer your question: yes, there'll be plenty of traditional media left. And on the bright side, chances are that "blogosphere" will still be all noise and no bit, so we won't need anyone (traditional media or someone else) to defend us from its mob rule.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
So all we have to do, if we want Linux to overtake Windows in market share, is take a flame thrower to a shrinkwrapped Windows store shelf display box, and then tell people that Windows catches on fire. Everyone will get scared and switch.
what would happen?
Is Dell or Sony going to replace that classic pickup truck
that got burned up by an exploding battery?
(not to mention the lap top computer).
Here's the thing -- Dell has always been very good to me. I don't work for them and have no skin in the game in that respect. I've built my own PC's and servers since the late 1980's but when it comes to laptops I prefer to buy prebuilt rather than trying the new kit products available.
I've had four Dell laptops, and all have been among the most reliable machines I've owned. I've used their support very very rarely -- but hell, I don't expect any company to provide a support tech up to my own technical abilities. I have 20 years experience and earn more than five times when they can affort to pay for support techs. I just want a support tech to tell me if what I've got is a known problem or if they're seeing it with other people.
My most recent purchase is a Latitude d820 which I am frankly thrilled with in terms of performance, bulk, weight, durability, style, and battery life. I travel with it, and have already dropped it once while watching a dvd on an airplane and as expected from this machine, the magnesium case wasn't even scuffed.
Sure, Dell has cheaped out on support for consumers. So has everyone else. Their choice to stay in bed too long with pure Intel processors and no AMD was a mistake and it cost them -- as it should have. They are, however, in my experience a responsible company and I just don't buy that they'd have left dangerous batteries in place once they were aware of the problem.
The publicity was excellent about getting attention to the problem -- but I don't believe it forced anyone to do anything they wouldn't otherwise have done.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
"In cyberspace, anyone can hear you scream"
What?
/.
... Well, does it say anything else?
First Po...(bang!)
What is that?
It must have exploded while he typed it.
Oh, come on.
Well that's what it says.
Look, if it was exploding, he wouldn't bother to write "(bang!)". It'd just say it!
Well that's what's written on the
Perhaps he was dictating.
Oh, shut up.
No, just, "Bang".
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
could also be the Sony Vaio laptop that caught fire and exploded at the 2006 U.S. Go Congress. In fact, the Dell recall happened 24 hours after the laptop explosion. Could this be more than a coincidence?
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.
"maybe even the fifties but my family only got a TV in 61, so I can't remember."
Well, if you knew how to use the internet properly you could look this up on the web!!!
Notice the OP said EASIER, not that which was previously impossible is now possible. The vast majority of newsbroadcasts run on 24 hour cycles, not to mention the lag time for the right paid journalists to do the right research.
Great, I'm not the only one who found the summary an incomplete history. The original article is here, from July 21. This was not a "grass-roots blogosphere victory", this was picking up a story from a well known news site. Too few people give the proper credit to the Inq for breaking this story, which ultimately led to the Dell and Apple recalls.
Now children, I'd like you to learn from this.. By not approaching the person directly and telling everyone else about their gammy leg, they will get hassled, abused, and rumours will start. Though, there's a good ending, eventually they will find out and get it fixed.