Slashdot Mirror
PS3's Lack of Rumble May Disappoint
Immersion Corporation, who you may recall from their rumble-controller suit against Sony, has released a study. Engadget reports that (somewhat unsurprisingly), it indicates gamers will miss the rumble feature in PS3. The 'SIXAXIS' gamepads planned for the PS3 will only have the 'tilt' feature, as far as is known so far. From the article: "Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo). As if these numbers didn't paint a clear enough picture of the message Immersion is trying to convey, two further questions spell it out even more explicitly: when asked if the lack of rumble capabilities would affect their buying decisions ... 5% said that it would definitely cause them not to buy a PS3 and 32% claimed that they were less likely to pick one up for this reason and this reason alone. " GameDaily has a further, more detailed exploration of the study.
The rumble is a great way to provide immediate feedback. Now I won't know when rocks are chasing me down a hill or when I run over a prostitute.
Seriously, they've fscked up every single aspect of the publicity, popularity and launch of the PS3 through trying to make this system do everything. They even said as much. And then they leave out the rumble.
Fucksakes.
Meta will eat itself
Rumble pack technology provider publishes paper saying people want Rumble technology? Who would have thought?
Personally, I didn't find much value in the rumble packs in the PS2. I've always hated how they call it "Force Feedback" too, since it's no such thing. I usually leave them on, but it's not like having the controller vibrate in my hands has really enhanced the game experiance. I think the tilt sensors will be far more interesting, although most likely just used as an occasional novelty by game designers. I'm expecting fighting games where you can duck left and right by tilting the controller (which would be more natural than the shoulder buttons they use now) and lots of use in minigames.
I read the internet for the articles.
...lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Considering that this survey was done by the same company that sued Sony over their rumble feature, I'm not at all surprised that the numbers for rumble are coming out high while the numbers for tilt sensors are coming out low.
That being said, I have heard a lot of disappointment being expressed over the PS3's lack of rumble. Most people don't seem to think the tilt sensors are a good replacement, and mostly think it's a gimmick ripped off from Nintendo. (Which would explain why the numbers are so low for the tilt sensor, while most people I've spoken with are very positive about the Wii-mote.) Yet I don't hear enough that I would consider the lack of rumble to be the feature that's going to kill the PS3. It seems to me the price tag, lack of games, and console shortages are all far more problematic.
If Immersion is trying to prove to Sony that they should have licensed the technology, well this (as in "suspect numbers") is the wrong way to go about it.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Rumble can, and does, enhance some titles. However there are invariably titles which overuse it, ruining an otherwise fine gaming experience. I don't mind getting a thump when I hit a wall in the game. What I can't stand is a constant rumble if an engine is damaged, or during some "The boss is coming out of the ground" sequence that lasts five minutes. Give people's hands a rest, please. It reminds me of the some of the first THX movies, which would abuse the capabilities by overusing them for loud sounds.
So, I for one will not miss rumble. Not for how it could be used, but for how it was too often misused.
I use wireless controllers when I play my games, all of which do not have a rumble feature. I'm sure there are some that do, but I imagine it would kill the battery life pretty quick. Although I do not consider myself a hardcore gamer, I don't think the rumble is that essential of a feature.
I remember this lawsuit being created (didn't MS get hit by it also?), however I do not remember the out come.
Why is it that only Sony has stoped with the rumble packs?
Are N and MS paying for the right to use a motor in their controllers?
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
360 controllers are wireless and rumble.
I get 20-30 hours of use out of a charge of batteries on them.
Yeah, there's gonna be some mocking of this, because there's a lot of times when rumble is misused (Psycho Mantis anyone? Oooh, the Rez vibrator!), but it's really great when you don't immediately notice it.
:).
Best example I can think of is Halo. Firing weapons produces vibrations, and when you're in the warthog's gunner seat and taking advantage of the unlimited ammo on the backseat cannon, it can throw off your aim a little bit as your hand starts to go numb...
But, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I will miss the rumble pack, if only because of that whole Rez vibrator thing
Beyond the Polygons : Because 50,000 polygo
From the article "a majority of console gamers use rumble/vibration quite regularly and clearly value it, and a majority expect existing rumble/vibration capability to carry forward to the PS3. In addition, a majority don't currently realize Sony's PS3 controllers won't allow for this backwards compatibility,".
What that means is if you have an older game that you are used to playing with rumble, it will feel very different on your PS3 (without the rumble). In fact, since the system won't be designed for rumbling, I'm not sure if it can even developed by third parties (in the form of a new controller). It kind of takes away some of the allure of backward compatibility doesn't it?
In other news, Phillip Morris has announced that cigarettes are not harmful to your health.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
Of course gamers picked rumble. They know rumble. The only motion detection most of them know anything about are largely failed attempts. U-Force or Power Glove anyone? And while rumble is one of those things that's good when used right and terrible when used wrong, most developers tend to get it right. What I don't get is why motion detection comes at the cost of rumble. They're treating this like an either/or situation when I'd imagine someone could engineer a method to do both if Sony were so inclined.
I would think a respectable company would take Sony aside in the courts and say "Look, if you put rumble in the PS3 and license with us, we'll back off this PS2 issue a bit." This just seems to me like a shady company trying to wring out Sony's pockets. They may be right, but in the interest of their public image, and in this case, the amount of licensing money they stand to lose by not being included in the PS3, they should be trying to compromise, not stealing Sony's wallet.
The lack of rumble alone is just the straw that broke the camel's back. It says a lot about Sony's incompetence, and I don't particularly want to buy a console from an incompetent company.
I'm suspending judgement until it comes out, but I'm telling everyone I know -- I don't care if you buy a Wii at launch, but wait a month or two after the PS3 comes out before you buy one. Then you'll know how much games will actually cost, you'll have a better idea all around if the console is worth it at any price, and the price itself will have dropped like a rock.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I'm sure there will be alot of comments about the uselessness of force feedback. But before jumping to conclusions, check out the company's release of their next-generation force feedback a couple months ago, which they are no doubt trying to get into the current consoles. http://www.gamedaily.com/features/?id=1039 "The effect is satisfying, yet it doesn't come close to capturing actual gunfire or explosions, partly because it takes time for these motors to build up speed. But this single, next-generation motor is not only capable of spinning in multiple directions, but it can stop on a dime and is generally much stronger than its predecessors. The result is a richer, more intense experience that will further immerse us in these upcoming games. To demo this, Immersion had me play a couple of PlayStation 2 games using the standard DualShock, those being EA's Medal of Honor: Frontline and Sony's Gran Turismo 4. Employees encouraged me to fire my character's guns and rev my car's engines, and things happened and felt as they should. But then we moved onto LucasArts' Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast for the PC. The game had been specially rigged to work with this next-gen vibration, and the moment the tester pulled out his character's light saber I was blown away. Unlike in previous Star Wars games, where a controller will output the same level of rumble no matter what's going on, there's varying degrees of it, from when the light saber's powered on, to when its cutting things up and to when it's not being used at all, whereupon which the controller provides a very satisfying "hum". And the vibrations don't stop until the weapon's put away. Furthermore, gunfire is just a lot more intense. Not only does each weapon (blaster pistol, cross bow, disrupter rifle) feel different, but the kick back is superb. The difference between this technology and previous controllers is akin to making the jump from the original Resident Evil on PSOne to Resident Evil 4. It's just in stark contrast to what I've been used to."
Out of the box, not all games will require it, which is why the original comparison is not fair. The new Sonic game does not require it, ExciteTruck, and I believe the SMB does not require it either. I am not sure of the exact breakdown. The key point is that it is an accessory. But still, it is a good enough product that a lot of games will require it - not because it is an extra source of income for Nintendo, but because it creates a lot of options for developers. I am looking forward to seeing what other kind of uses developers will come up with, from a hardware standpoint.
Really, it comes down to the fact that the PS3 is build around the hardware of the system itself, in terms of power. The controller was an afterthought. I really don't think you will see a lot of games built around the gameplay mechanics of the controller. The Wii, on the other hand, was built around the gameplay mechanics when they decided that they didn't just want to create a more powerful system - but something different. The PS3 will do good at what it is supposed to do, as will the Wii. They just happen to have a common point (if you stretch it) that is a core part of one system's design, and an extra to the other.
You are in a maze of little twisting passages, all different.
Tilt sensing actually does suck. It makes the games harder to play than just using the analog stick and if it's not the focus of the game all of the time, you can easily be tilting the controller without knowing it. Microsoft tried this bit years ago with one of their controllers, and I bought it and I've never had a less pleasurable gaming experience than falling off the motorcycle because I tilted the controller wrong while trying to grab a drink. Dumb idea. That being said, I don't know if Nintendo's controller is strictly a tilt sensing thing. Besides, the control is a lot more like you would have for an arcade game in that there's a certain understanding that you will be using the way your hand is positioned to determine a great deal of the action because the controller is unique. With a regular controller and tilt sensoring, you are more prone to tilt it because you forget that you are supposed to be watching yourself. It's when they make the tilt sensoring a side attraction or an "added feature" on a game that it sucks. Using alternative control mechanisms doesn't necessarily suck. Although I will reserve my final opinion until I see both implementations, I believe Nintendo's idea looks more believable as a way to attract customers. (Not that that means anything, Wii could easily come in last place).
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
I have to say as a disclaimer that I for one personally beleive that rumble IS an addition to a console.
While some claim it's a gimmick and or annoying, I feel that on a sublminal level it adds substantially to games with good feedback - infact it's one of those things you simply don't realise it was good until it's gone.
Anyone need only play Rallisport challenge 2 on the Xbox 1 to see it was very very well done in that game, combined with the good noises in the game it really did sound and feel like slipping around on either rocks, grass, dirt and so on - very very well done.
Also Halo made fairly good use of rumble too.
So for the record, I WANT rumble in the PS3 quite badly actually I'm really really sad to see it go.
That being said, these Immersion people are nothing sort of being a bunch of fucking assholes.
Not only do they have a patent on something which is INSIDE MOST WOMENS BEDSIDE DRAWERS and is as simple as a weighted motor,.... they have the nerve to enforce their bullshit patent on Sony.
To add insult to injury this is the SECOND time they've antagonised Sony / the media with bullshit comments like this.
They are essentially saying "nyah nyah nyah, we won!" trying to present themselves as innocents fighting for the gamers, when it's assholes like this who cause gamers problems in the first place.
They beat Sony and now are antagonising them with this "gee people will miss the rumble that SONY TOOK FROM YOU" that's what they are saying, in an effort to try to convince Sony to license their "technology"
This article is likely true in the fact that hey we will miss rumble, hey don't we all wish Sony would impliment it but the flaw is it comes from immersion, anyone else handling this study makes this a perfectly good article but being handled by Immersion? It's just antagonism and bullshit, fuck these assclowns, I really do wish they'd disapear.
Fingers crossed there IS rumble somehow on the PS3 because I certainly want it myself - we'll see what third party manufacturers will do.
Immersion beat Sony in a rumble patent lawsuit. Sony then removed the rumble from the PS3 controller. Ever since, Immersion has been literally trolling the internet and anybody that'd listen to try to petition Sony to now LICENSE their rumble technology. This merely being the latest example. You got your money, Immersion. You could have settled but you didn't. Now please STFU.