one of the main resons i like sonys consoles is the fact that they make is easy to make games for it...
No, in fact, the PS2 was the most difficult to program for in the previous generation. Xbox and Gamecube were designed around familiar architecture and established standards so that it was easy for developers to embrace the platform. Sony did what it has always done and took its own completely untraveled path.
The number of games available on PS2 has WAY more to do with the large established user base of the PS1, and a combination of the timing and price of the PS2 (it was a "cheap dvd player" for so long, that lead to a large PS2 ownership). There are more games for it simply because there are more units out there. It's a much bigger group of fat wallets to grab money from than say the nGage and its measly unit sales. Nintendo didn't have such a large group of loyal fans coming off the n64, and Microsoft had the skepticism of the entire industry to battle.
As for discounting the Wii, I think unless you are one of the lucky few that has had a chance to use it already, you have no idea what you are really in for. You can do what you want, but I bet once you try one you will like it. Even Sony is nervous about it, else they wouldn't have added the tilt sensors to the PS3.
It sounds more like you are discounting the alternatives because they aren't the choice you have already made.
You have to accept some standard level of understand in order for any rating system to take hold. A rating system based on the pure measurable facts such as you list would be so incredibly complicated that no one would be able to understand it when they needed it.
Did I cut that nuns head off with a chainsaw and blood spurted? Yes. That is extreme violence. Is that offensive? Depends who you are.
Violence is not snynonymous with offensive, any confusion there is not the fault of the system.
If I really need to measure how far the blood flies and how many times the head bounces on the ground for someone to understand how violent, then they have lost their sense of reality. Just in the same sense as I can call the sky blue, and you don't throw your hands up and ask me "well what hue of blue is it?", I should be able to say 'that's violent' and you get the gist of it.
As far as the Adults Only rating is concerned, that should be thrown out and Mature should be the top dog. Especially when a game like Manhunt can get away with being 'M'.
Take a look at the existing rating system. It rates based on content. In no way does it encourage censorship or (de/pro)mote any game. Yes, some games fall into the AO category, but as another poster said, the fault with selling AO games falls upon the retailers, not the ESRB.
If your game has you chainsawing nun's heads off, you can bet your ass people will protest your game, at least on some level because they think your game is 'bad'. You will not, however, see a label on the cover of the game saying that 'America says this game is bad'. You will just see a label that the game contains 'intense violence, blood and gore' and that is a fact, as chainsawing nun's heads off tends to be very violent, and bloody.
The system is based off facts. 'Good' or 'Bad' is an opinion.
As much as I dislike Sony, it seems to me that Immersion is just being a child in this situation. They sued Sony and Microsoft, when Sony fought back, Immersion dug their nails in and stuck through it. Now that Immersion has effectively mauled Sony's feeding hand, they still want more. It really seems to me that all this is similar to when a little kid makes a decision and then begs and pleads to alter the consequence of that decision.
I would think a respectable company would take Sony aside in the courts and say "Look, if you put rumble in the PS3 and license with us, we'll back off this PS2 issue a bit." This just seems to me like a shady company trying to wring out Sony's pockets. They may be right, but in the interest of their public image, and in this case, the amount of licensing money they stand to lose by not being included in the PS3, they should be trying to compromise, not stealing Sony's wallet.
I've thought about using emachineshop.com a few times on a few other projects and specialty car parts. I have been quite satisfied with the work I have had them do in the past.
However, the issue that may arrise here is (at least at the time I was going to use them for a unique project) in the process of using them, you agree that the designs you submit to them become their property. If he is trying to build a prototype, using emachineshop.com effectively hands the rights to the design to someone else.
I can't seem to locate the fine print on the site now, maybe their policy has changed. Worth a phone call, at the very least.
I was working as a tech support guy for a windows based tax software, and this user called me up having trouble getting the software installed from the cd. This was in the days where Windows 2000 was king.
Me: What version of windows are you using: 95, 98, ME, or 2000?
User: 95, it is an old computer... I think I bought it in 95.
Me: Okay, go ahead and double click on 'My Computer'.
User: Double click on YOUR computer?
[supressing a chuckle at the obviousness of the confusion]
Me: No no, the icon on your desktop. Should be in the upper left, it says 'My Computer' just below it.
User: I'm not seeing anything there.
Me: Okay, how about the Start menu, do you see that in the lower left?
User: No, I don't see anything down there.
I spent the next 10 minutes trying to figure out how to tell the guy to open up my computer so he could access his cd-rom. I tried telling him keyboard shortcuts, the windows key (he didn't have one), everything I could think of before I finally asked him to describe what was on his screen. He went on for about 3 minutes describing every detail, and he finally said something that triggered me to realize what was going on (I can't recall what it was).
Me: Wait, do you see a gray box in the upper left with a little white line in the middle?
User: Yes, I see that.
Me: Ooookay now we're getting somewhere. You are using Windows 3.11, not Windows 95.
I had to run over to another machine that wasn't as locked down as our desktops were and launch winfile so I had some idea how to guide this guy around. Just another example of 'don't assume anything' when supporting the general public.
The author mentions building an arcade cabinet, but doesn't say anything about gutting an existing cabinet. I was able to get a hold of a cabinet with a dead screen at a local arcade auction for $40. Since the only thing that was dead was the screen, I was able to sell the innards to a professional restoration company for $30, and netted a perfectly good stable cabinet for $10.
The PS3 is only TILT sensitive. All of the 'movement' that makes the Wii attractive to the people who like it (the tennis game, for example), is NOT POSSIBLE with the PS3. It's NOT motion sensitive, and I wish the media would quit misreporting it. Engadget should be highlighting this difference and they aren't. They way they present the article, it seems they don't even understand the difference themselves.
You know that Katamari Damacy was created by Namco, and has only graced Sony platforms, and that neither of these entities is in any way Nintendo, right?
I think it's funny that we've got so many "what's the use? it's pointless!" posts, but when someone links a story of Linux running on a microwave people think it's the hottest thing ever.
Why? Because I'd like to use a Mac but I don't want to purchase a whole new software library all at once. This would let me kind of ease into it.
I hear this from time to time, but I've never once heard a reason for it 'failing' other than the lack of 3rd party support. The way I see it, in order for a console to be a 'failure' it needs to either 1) cost the company money (overall), instead of make it 2) have nothing worth buying the system for, or 3) struggle it's entire lifespan to barely 'make the cut'.
-Was the Gamecube profitable for Nintendo?
Yes, see my previous post on this topic and you'll find links to facts about how profitable it was, and I'm sure you will be surprised.
-Did the system have a wide library of enjoyable, quality games?
Even if they are mostly first and second party games, there is still quite a selection of games that either are only on Gamecube or are best on Gamecube, anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant.
-Yeah but wasn't the Gamecube in last place most of it's existance?
Hardly. The Gamecube has maintained second place in worldwide sales the majority of it's life. Only in 2005 did xbox finally take second place in total sales.
Someone please, tell me how that adds up to a failure.
The overall 'view' of Nintendo this entire console generation has been extremly skewed. Sure, I'm a fanboy.
Going along with what you are saying, it's not a fair statement to say that because video games contain realistic 'mature' content that video games have matured. Is a 14 year old 'mature' because he plays Grand Theft Auto? No. A 14 year old that chooses to play a game like Ico instead of Grand Theft Auto is more 'mature', because he is choosing entertainment with more engrossing gameplay and story over senseless violence and sex.
There's a mix up between what is 'mature' here. There's mature content, the blood, guts, boobs, and sex; then there is a mature theme, things that you just don't understand or can't fully appreciate until you have some experience (not xp) under your belt. I would consider Myst to be a 'Mature' game. Something that requires a bit more of a refined taste to appreciate.
While there are a few 'mature content containing' games that could be considered mature games, it's all too obvious that there's way more mature content than there is mature games. The article seems to strive more to point out what has always been in that envelope everytime it's been pushed, and not so much show how games have 'grown up'.
(because Nintendo can't afford to sell at a loss).
Let's clarify that: Nintendo doesnt NEED to sell it at a loss.
Read this and this. Don't discount them for being hosted at 'nintendoinsider.com' either, they are quite factual and honest.
Here's a few clips:
In the final corner, Nintendo has it much better. When the system wars began, Nintendo GameCube was actually making money for each system sold, as Nintendo didn't bother with all the extra non-gaming functions of its competitors, like DVD movie playback. The system was still making Nintendo money at $150, and it wasn't until its $99 price tag that it was estimated Nintendo was losing money - but only in the single digits.
The same goes with Nintendo DS; Nintendo has done everything possible to keep manufacturing costs down and to make a profit with each system sold. For instance, the Nintendo DS doesn't play GB and GBC games primarily because this would cost more money. Nikkei Electronics Asia also has a very interesting article on the cost control features of the Nintendo DS.
...
Next, we have Sony; unlike Microsoft, its games division was profitable during the most recent fiscal year. Overall, revenues were at 729.8 billion yen, or approximately $6.76 billion. Its operating profit was 43.2 billion yen, or $400 million. Still, that's over a $6 billion drop going from revenue to operating profit, and a 36.1% drop from the previous fiscal year. One of the prime instigators, says GameSpot? The PlayStation Portable launch.
And finally, we have Nintendo. Even with three systems in its hands, including a recent launch of the Nintendo DS, Nintendo's operating profit increased by 3.6% in the new fiscal year to 111.5 billion yen, or $1.03 billion. Its revenue was also 515.3 billion yen, or $4.77 billion, meaning a $3.74 billion drop from revenue to operating profit, compared to Sony's $6.36 billion drop. Quite simply, Nintendo's conservative business principles have allowed the company to turn respectable operating profits. No drop because of the DS launch or even less GCN sales here.
It's not that Nintendo can't afford to do anything, it's that they know how to make/spend money effeiciently. Through the fiscal year quoted in those articles, Nintendo (who makes JUST video games and consoles) actually made more profit than Sony AS A COMPANY (TV's, computers, other major electronics, the ps2 and the psp). I doubt that's something new for Nintendo. While they are no Microsoft, they can definately afford to do quite a bit.
On most of those points I agree. It's not the ESRB's job to regulate what gets sold to who, but with the job of rating games comes quite a responsibility, which I personally believe the ESRB is slipping on. Anyone who has played Rockstar's Manhunt will tell you that the game "include[s] graphic depictions of sex and/or violence [pulled from the AO rating definition on esrb.org]" yet why the game is not rated AO is completely beyond me. There are a handful of other top selling games whose ratings are quite questionable.
I think that the real problem is parent's don't know where to go to learn about video games on their own. Unfortunately most parents don't bother to watch their kids play these games. They put all of their faith into the little letter on the box (sometimes they don't even do that). When they feel they have been misguided by it, they are opening fire on who put it there. Bottom line is that the ESRB could use a bit more clarifation, and the general public (seems like in any case) just needs more education.
Lumens is a reference to the brightness of the image. I'm assuming (N/A) means they have no specific number for it, but IIRC 2000 is an average projector.
I thought I remember reading somewhere that it would launch for Mac and PC at the same time. I couldn't find any proof of it (maybe for reasons) but don't forget doom 3's debute was on a Mac with a geforce 3
Uh, I beg to differ. I don't want to start a "this console is better than that console" but we Nintendo fans suffer a much, much worse fate at the hands of the masses than Xbox fans do. We are the ones that have to convince other people that games like Pikmin and Eternal Darkness are truely awesome. We are the ones that had to fight off "Nintendo is going to die" statements. We are the ones that had to listen to the media slander Nintendo in the press, skewing the market reports and make it sound like the Gamecube was never selling very well, when it as ALWAYS been in second place ahead of the Xbox world-wide.
You think you've got it bad, try talking about how much you love your Gamecube in a busy EBGames or Gamestop, and only then you'll truely feel how Mac users do.
While I won't even for a second believe that 'because anyone played ___ fps they are a better shot in a shooting range' I believe that video games do increase particular abilities in people. Reaction times is just one that people have mentioned, but I know on some of my Sat/Act tests (whichever one tested for this--video games haven't helped my long-term memory:P) I scored considerably high in the 'mental imaging' section and I attribute it mainly to maping out game levels and quake maps in my head. There's also games out there like Pandora's Box, Dr. Brain, and (why not) Typing of the Dead that strive to improve particular functions.
I've also been in a couple of emergency car scenarios where I managed to escape with my hide that I attribute partially to video games, and partially to my previous 'parking lot shinanigans'
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one of the main resons i like sonys consoles is the fact that they make is easy to make games for it...
No, in fact, the PS2 was the most difficult to program for in the previous generation. Xbox and Gamecube were designed around familiar architecture and established standards so that it was easy for developers to embrace the platform. Sony did what it has always done and took its own completely untraveled path.
The number of games available on PS2 has WAY more to do with the large established user base of the PS1, and a combination of the timing and price of the PS2 (it was a "cheap dvd player" for so long, that lead to a large PS2 ownership). There are more games for it simply because there are more units out there. It's a much bigger group of fat wallets to grab money from than say the nGage and its measly unit sales. Nintendo didn't have such a large group of loyal fans coming off the n64, and Microsoft had the skepticism of the entire industry to battle.
As for discounting the Wii, I think unless you are one of the lucky few that has had a chance to use it already, you have no idea what you are really in for. You can do what you want, but I bet once you try one you will like it. Even Sony is nervous about it, else they wouldn't have added the tilt sensors to the PS3.
It sounds more like you are discounting the alternatives because they aren't the choice you have already made.
You have to accept some standard level of understand in order for any rating system to take hold. A rating system based on the pure measurable facts such as you list would be so incredibly complicated that no one would be able to understand it when they needed it.
Did I cut that nuns head off with a chainsaw and blood spurted? Yes. That is extreme violence. Is that offensive? Depends who you are.
Violence is not snynonymous with offensive, any confusion there is not the fault of the system.
If I really need to measure how far the blood flies and how many times the head bounces on the ground for someone to understand how violent, then they have lost their sense of reality. Just in the same sense as I can call the sky blue, and you don't throw your hands up and ask me "well what hue of blue is it?", I should be able to say 'that's violent' and you get the gist of it.
As far as the Adults Only rating is concerned, that should be thrown out and Mature should be the top dog. Especially when a game like Manhunt can get away with being 'M'.
Take a look at the existing rating system. It rates based on content. In no way does it encourage censorship or (de/pro)mote any game. Yes, some games fall into the AO category, but as another poster said, the fault with selling AO games falls upon the retailers, not the ESRB.
If your game has you chainsawing nun's heads off, you can bet your ass people will protest your game, at least on some level because they think your game is 'bad'. You will not, however, see a label on the cover of the game saying that 'America says this game is bad'. You will just see a label that the game contains 'intense violence, blood and gore' and that is a fact, as chainsawing nun's heads off tends to be very violent, and bloody.
The system is based off facts. 'Good' or 'Bad' is an opinion.
I was hoping I was wrong, glad to see that I am. Thank you for illustrating the whole picture.
I would think a respectable company would take Sony aside in the courts and say "Look, if you put rumble in the PS3 and license with us, we'll back off this PS2 issue a bit." This just seems to me like a shady company trying to wring out Sony's pockets. They may be right, but in the interest of their public image, and in this case, the amount of licensing money they stand to lose by not being included in the PS3, they should be trying to compromise, not stealing Sony's wallet.
I've thought about using emachineshop.com a few times on a few other projects and specialty car parts. I have been quite satisfied with the work I have had them do in the past.
However, the issue that may arrise here is (at least at the time I was going to use them for a unique project) in the process of using them, you agree that the designs you submit to them become their property. If he is trying to build a prototype, using emachineshop.com effectively hands the rights to the design to someone else.
I can't seem to locate the fine print on the site now, maybe their policy has changed. Worth a phone call, at the very least.
I was working as a tech support guy for a windows based tax software, and this user called me up having trouble getting the software installed from the cd. This was in the days where Windows 2000 was king.
Me: What version of windows are you using: 95, 98, ME, or 2000?
User: 95, it is an old computer... I think I bought it in 95.
Me: Okay, go ahead and double click on 'My Computer'.
User: Double click on YOUR computer?
[supressing a chuckle at the obviousness of the confusion]
Me: No no, the icon on your desktop. Should be in the upper left, it says 'My Computer' just below it.
User: I'm not seeing anything there.
Me: Okay, how about the Start menu, do you see that in the lower left?
User: No, I don't see anything down there.
I spent the next 10 minutes trying to figure out how to tell the guy to open up my computer so he could access his cd-rom. I tried telling him keyboard shortcuts, the windows key (he didn't have one), everything I could think of before I finally asked him to describe what was on his screen. He went on for about 3 minutes describing every detail, and he finally said something that triggered me to realize what was going on (I can't recall what it was).
Me: Wait, do you see a gray box in the upper left with a little white line in the middle?
User: Yes, I see that.
Me: Ooookay now we're getting somewhere. You are using Windows 3.11, not Windows 95.
I had to run over to another machine that wasn't as locked down as our desktops were and launch winfile so I had some idea how to guide this guy around. Just another example of 'don't assume anything' when supporting the general public.
The author mentions building an arcade cabinet, but doesn't say anything about gutting an existing cabinet. I was able to get a hold of a cabinet with a dead screen at a local arcade auction for $40. Since the only thing that was dead was the screen, I was able to sell the innards to a professional restoration company for $30, and netted a perfectly good stable cabinet for $10.
The PS3 is only TILT sensitive. All of the 'movement' that makes the Wii attractive to the people who like it (the tennis game, for example), is NOT POSSIBLE with the PS3. It's NOT motion sensitive, and I wish the media would quit misreporting it. Engadget should be highlighting this difference and they aren't. They way they present the article, it seems they don't even understand the difference themselves.
You know that Katamari Damacy was created by Namco, and has only graced Sony platforms, and that neither of these entities is in any way Nintendo, right?
I think it's funny that we've got so many "what's the use? it's pointless!" posts, but when someone links a story of Linux running on a microwave people think it's the hottest thing ever.
Why? Because I'd like to use a Mac but I don't want to purchase a whole new software library all at once. This would let me kind of ease into it.
Donating $200,000 to running Linux on an unmodified Xbox? There's a real reason to ask 'why?'.
#2 - To launch a device with a title like 'Sticky Balls'
#3 - To do "all that" for more money that the PSP
Oh and 'no retail space' should fit in there somewhere too.
-Was the Gamecube profitable for Nintendo?
Yes, see my previous post on this topic and you'll find links to facts about how profitable it was, and I'm sure you will be surprised.
-Did the system have a wide library of enjoyable, quality games?
Even if they are mostly first and second party games, there is still quite a selection of games that either are only on Gamecube or are best on Gamecube, anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant.
-Yeah but wasn't the Gamecube in last place most of it's existance?
Hardly. The Gamecube has maintained second place in worldwide sales the majority of it's life. Only in 2005 did xbox finally take second place in total sales.
Someone please, tell me how that adds up to a failure. The overall 'view' of Nintendo this entire console generation has been extremly skewed. Sure, I'm a fanboy.
Going along with what you are saying, it's not a fair statement to say that because video games contain realistic 'mature' content that video games have matured. Is a 14 year old 'mature' because he plays Grand Theft Auto? No. A 14 year old that chooses to play a game like Ico instead of Grand Theft Auto is more 'mature', because he is choosing entertainment with more engrossing gameplay and story over senseless violence and sex.
There's a mix up between what is 'mature' here. There's mature content, the blood, guts, boobs, and sex; then there is a mature theme, things that you just don't understand or can't fully appreciate until you have some experience (not xp) under your belt. I would consider Myst to be a 'Mature' game. Something that requires a bit more of a refined taste to appreciate.
While there are a few 'mature content containing' games that could be considered mature games, it's all too obvious that there's way more mature content than there is mature games. The article seems to strive more to point out what has always been in that envelope everytime it's been pushed, and not so much show how games have 'grown up'.
Let's clarify that:
Nintendo doesnt NEED to sell it at a loss. Read this and this. Don't discount them for being hosted at 'nintendoinsider.com' either, they are quite factual and honest.
Here's a few clips: In the final corner, Nintendo has it much better. When the system wars began, Nintendo GameCube was actually making money for each system sold, as Nintendo didn't bother with all the extra non-gaming functions of its competitors, like DVD movie playback. The system was still making Nintendo money at $150, and it wasn't until its $99 price tag that it was estimated Nintendo was losing money - but only in the single digits.
The same goes with Nintendo DS; Nintendo has done everything possible to keep manufacturing costs down and to make a profit with each system sold. For instance, the Nintendo DS doesn't play GB and GBC games primarily because this would cost more money. Nikkei Electronics Asia also has a very interesting article on the cost control features of the Nintendo DS.
Next, we have Sony; unlike Microsoft, its games division was profitable during the most recent fiscal year. Overall, revenues were at 729.8 billion yen, or approximately $6.76 billion. Its operating profit was 43.2 billion yen, or $400 million. Still, that's over a $6 billion drop going from revenue to operating profit, and a 36.1% drop from the previous fiscal year. One of the prime instigators, says GameSpot? The PlayStation Portable launch.
And finally, we have Nintendo. Even with three systems in its hands, including a recent launch of the Nintendo DS, Nintendo's operating profit increased by 3.6% in the new fiscal year to 111.5 billion yen, or $1.03 billion. Its revenue was also 515.3 billion yen, or $4.77 billion, meaning a $3.74 billion drop from revenue to operating profit, compared to Sony's $6.36 billion drop. Quite simply, Nintendo's conservative business principles have allowed the company to turn respectable operating profits. No drop because of the DS launch or even less GCN sales here.
It's not that Nintendo can't afford to do anything, it's that they know how to make/spend money effeiciently. Through the fiscal year quoted in those articles, Nintendo (who makes JUST video games and consoles) actually made more profit than Sony AS A COMPANY (TV's, computers, other major electronics, the ps2 and the psp). I doubt that's something new for Nintendo. While they are no Microsoft, they can definately afford to do quite a bit.
On most of those points I agree. It's not the ESRB's job to regulate what gets sold to who, but with the job of rating games comes quite a responsibility, which I personally believe the ESRB is slipping on. Anyone who has played Rockstar's Manhunt will tell you that the game "include[s] graphic depictions of sex and/or violence [pulled from the AO rating definition on esrb.org]" yet why the game is not rated AO is completely beyond me. There are a handful of other top selling games whose ratings are quite questionable.
I think that the real problem is parent's don't know where to go to learn about video games on their own. Unfortunately most parents don't bother to watch their kids play these games. They put all of their faith into the little letter on the box (sometimes they don't even do that). When they feel they have been misguided by it, they are opening fire on who put it there. Bottom line is that the ESRB could use a bit more clarifation, and the general public (seems like in any case) just needs more education.
Lumens is a reference to the brightness of the image. I'm assuming (N/A) means they have no specific number for it, but IIRC 2000 is an average projector.
All three still have a great look to them, and awesomely engaging gameplay.
I thought I remember reading somewhere that it would launch for Mac and PC at the same time. I couldn't find any proof of it (maybe for reasons) but don't forget doom 3's debute was on a Mac with a geforce 3
Uh, I beg to differ. I don't want to start a "this console is better than that console" but we Nintendo fans suffer a much, much worse fate at the hands of the masses than Xbox fans do. We are the ones that have to convince other people that games like Pikmin and Eternal Darkness are truely awesome. We are the ones that had to fight off "Nintendo is going to die" statements. We are the ones that had to listen to the media slander Nintendo in the press, skewing the market reports and make it sound like the Gamecube was never selling very well, when it as ALWAYS been in second place ahead of the Xbox world-wide.
You think you've got it bad, try talking about how much you love your Gamecube in a busy EBGames or Gamestop, and only then you'll truely feel how Mac users do.
While I won't even for a second believe that 'because anyone played ___ fps they are a better shot in a shooting range' I believe that video games do increase particular abilities in people. Reaction times is just one that people have mentioned, but I know on some of my Sat/Act tests (whichever one tested for this--video games haven't helped my long-term memory :P) I scored considerably high in the 'mental imaging' section and I attribute it mainly to maping out game levels and quake maps in my head. There's also games out there like Pandora's Box, Dr. Brain, and (why not) Typing of the Dead that strive to improve particular functions.
I've also been in a couple of emergency car scenarios where I managed to escape with my hide that I attribute partially to video games, and partially to my previous 'parking lot shinanigans'
good for a laugh, but god forbid the way you control the chair is horrible.