Slashdot Mirror
Peter Moore Plugs the Wii60 Again
Next Generation is reporting that Peter Moore has once again raised the concept of the 'Wii60', a gamer who has chosen to buy an Xbox 360 and a Wii, instead of ... that other guy's product. From the article: "In a canny piece of anti-Sony propaganda he said, 'Dual platform ownership of Xbox 360 and Wii could be as high as 40% depending on what territory we are talking about. The influence of the Wii-60 movement seems to be growing enormously.' ... But the mischievous Liverpudlian could not resist expressing some doubts about Nintendo's machine. 'The controller is innovative but it remains to be seen how innovative your shoulder will feel after an hour's play.'"
How innovative do your thumbs feel after 60 minutes of Halo?
Test your net with Netalyzr
'The controller is innovative but it remains to be seen how innovative your shoulder will feel after an hour's play.'
People dont seem to realise that you arent going to be cocking your whole arm back and exert enough force to chop a tree down. There are plenty of gameplay videos, including videos of Madden, where its a simple snap of the wrist in order to pass.
The Wii60 Plugs Peter Moore
That sounds much funnier, although it does have a slightly gay overtone.
I am totally getting a Wii, so this is not slanted in any way, but honestly, I'm concerned about the strain that using a motion-sensitive controller for every game, every movement, etc. will have. Seriously. I'm all for getting up off the couch, interactivity, and innovation. However, when I want to do some monster gaming session on Zelda, or Metroid Prime or something, how long can I really play before my body says "sit down, and stop flailing about. Plug that GC controller in right now, young man..." :)
But I think the Wii-60 argument is really compelling. The idea that you can buy both machines for a price comparable to the PS3, and have both next-gen graphics as well as innovative gameplay... I don't really see why you wouldn't, especially as we're entering this age of multi-platform games being the norm, due publishers and devs trying to make back their high development costs.
The question for me is whether owning a Wii on its own is going to be a satisfying enough experience."
I know my wii brings me lots of satisfaction...
It's sad when choosing an installation directory on your own qualifies you as an "advanced user."
It is terrible marketing (to admit that someone needs another platform to get a complete gaming experience) but, in reality, it makes sense. What the Wii represents (in my opinion) is the splintering of the market once again, the most recent splintering I can think of was with the Gameboy in the early 90s which created the trinity of Console/PC/and Handheld gaming which as continued to this day. For the most part people who decide to purchase a Wii will not come home with a PS3/XBox 360 and those that go out to buy a PS3/XBox 360 will not come home with a Wii; by focusing on how you can buy an XBox 360 and Wii for about the same price as a PS3 they aim to attract the (very large) segment of gamers who will own multiple platforms.
I don't think Slashdot readers will have any problem with arm stamina... :P
Unless, of course, they don't use their dominant hand.
Registered Linux user #421033
There goes Microsoft trying to piggyback off the anticipated success of the Wii. They know the Wii will most likely succeed and will try as much as possible to connect the 360 with the Wii. The fact that the article mentions a Wii, is free publicity for Microsoft. Pretty smart, I must admit.
If my shoulder hurts after an hour's play it means I'm actually getting a good workout in. With the obesity levels in America I certainly think we could use the exercise. And if people wonder why your right arm is buff and not your left you can tell them "it's from playing with my Wii". On second thought, you could tell them you're into bowling, fencing, or some other sport that favors your right arm over the left.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
I'm getting a Wii at launch, no matter what. When the 360 price goes down, or my budget goes up, or Mass Effect is released I will get a 360. No intention or need for a PS3 with those two machines and a high end PC in my house.
games.
all hail great mother india!
It's like the unpopular kid at school who tries to stand next to the popular kid and use the word 'we' in referring to the two of them hoping some of that popularity will rub off on them. Kind of pathetic, but I guess Microsoft knows just how bad the Xbox brand is perceived by gamers that they have to resort to something like this.
With Xbox 360 sales worse than the first Xbox, by some 300-400k worldwide right now, someone high up in Microsoft probably should be asking what they spent that 5-6 billion dollars on 'building the Xbox brand' over the past five years. I would love to see Nintendo's real reaction to this attempt by Microsoft to latch on to their valuable branding. So far their responses are too politely Japanese, but I can't imagine they are too happy.
well seeing how most gamers play with their wee for 10-15 minutes with a few minutes between for hours on end I'm sure they could handle it.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
How in the hell is the parent rated "Insightful"? Stupid mods!
If the biggest problem with the Wii is that it's more realistic than the others (and apparently fun enough to play until you're sore), then props to Nintendo.
So you're saying that gamers are so out of shape that its going to put the hurting on you to play tennis for an hour?
See, in my opinion that is one of the greatest benefits that the Nintendo has. Imgine the marketing campaigns that they will be able to use and tell parents that their children will... now get this *actually get a work-out* while playing. Now, its not going to be the same thing, but it is still better than being totally dormant.
I am looking forward to playing some tennis, etc with my wife. I can't convince her to play traditional games, but if there is some physical activity involved she might consider playing every now and then.
Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
Real gamers are going to want the WiiS3.
I think this is the first time I've laughed so hard at while on slashdot.
I'm mostly worried about the games that require you to use the remote to aim at targets on the screen or to move a pointer. When you're holding a remote in your hand naturally it's pointing about 20-30 degrees upwards, if you have to aim it straight forward for a long time it could get very uncomfortable in the wrist.
Yeah, X-Boxen are really flying off the shelves there. I can't even imaging a Japanese person walking into a game store to buy a Wii without walking out with a 360 in hand too.
Granted, I can't imagine why an American would either, but I'm highly biased against non-Japanese game systems, so anything I say is lunacy anyways.
As much as Sony has done it's best not to get my business I will probably end up owning all 3 consoles eventually. I already own and enjoy the Xbox 360. The Wii will be purchased as soon as I can pick one up without preordering for Zelda and Metroid 3, and the Sony as soon as I can without preordering (which will most likely be considerably later then the Wii) for games like White Knight Story and the Final Fantasy's that will be exclusive.
Microsoft knows that they're more likely to succeed by leveraging the "anybody but Sony, we hate Sony" bandwagon than they are if their product had to win on their own merits.
'The controller is innovative but it remains to be seen how innovative your shoulder will feel after an hour's play.'
Most likely no worse for wear than your thumbs (damned Street Fighter II).
Let's see, what can I get for the price of a wii60? I can buy a wii, with an extra controller and a few games. The people going around spouting this wii60 crap are just doing the marketing for Microsoft by jumping on Nintendo's coattails which is pretty much brand theft. They are just hoping that this will help their dismal sales as they are about to be trounced by the PS3(especially since they just announced some price cuts) and Wii this christmas.
Dance Dance Revolution - which has been remarkably popular. DDR has even (according to previous Slashdot articles) made it into secondary school phys. ed. programs.
[Insert pithy quote here]
and just buy a Wii? I already have a games machine (my PC), I'm at least somewhat interested in getting a console. Why the hell would I want 2?
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Of course they question the Wii. They always question the Wii. They are a broken record.
They also eat babies.
I went to wiki to find out who this Peter Moore guy was..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Moore
Peter Moore (chemist) (born 1939), professor at Yale University
Peter Moore (Microsoft), Microsoft executive
Peter Bullfrog Moore (1932-2000), Canterbury Bulldogs Rugby League official
Peter Moore (serial killer) (born c. 1940), British serial killer
Peter Moore (travel author) (born 1962), Australian travel writer
Peter Moore (Australian rules footballer), winner of the Brownlow Medal in 1979 and 1984
Peter Moore (politician), leader of Sheffield City Council, Yorkshire, England
Comparing the pictures, it turned out to be the MS executive. I was just wondering based on the comments the guy was spouting if he was the politican or serial killer though.
Do you think we would see a large increase in 360 sales, just from the "Wii60" people trying to 'stick it' to Sony?
I'm not bitter, I'm just unsweetened.
The joke gets even better when you read the cut off reply subject.....
Monstar L
How is it that people have talked this much about getting a one armed workout, while never mentioning Dance Dance Revolution? That one even has a cardio workout mode! Not that I've ever played, of course...
Sports is not a good analogy. That's a wide range of activities that exercise different muscles, and at different rates. Moore does bring up a good point, and it *is* something to worry about.
Here's something to try at home or wherever you are. Lift your arms straight in front of you. You don't even need to hold anything in them. Keep them outstretched. How long do you think you can keep them there, carrying nothing? You may be surprised how fast you get tired (generally in only a few minutes). This was a "neat trick" I learned when I was doing martial arts. Heck, even your uber football player may have problems with this, especially if their arms are really bulked up with muscles.
Granted, when you play the Wii-mote, your arms generally won't be outstretched like that for very long. Hopefully with most games, they can stay mostly near your body. But it still might be something to be concerned about. That's frankly one of my main concerns for the console, and one of the first things I'll watch for when I pick up the Wii.
-- jchenx
It's called Nintendo Thumb.
The controller is innovative but it remains to be seen how innovative your shoulder will feel after an hour's play.
:)
God forbid console nerds get some exercise
Why is questioning a yet-to-be-released console ever a bad thing? Especially one with a vastly different (although very interesting) control scheme?
People will naturally want to question anything that they don't have, and can't experience for themselves. Plenty of people questioned the 360 before it came out. And plenty of people are questioning both the Wii and the PS3. And many more will question future games and future consoles. This is a GOOD thing.
The alternative is to NOT question anything, and just keep building up hype, to the point that the product can't achieve the bloated expectations. Personally, I'd rather be "pleasantly surprised" rather than horribly disappointed.
-- jchenx
I think a lot of people, unfortunately, have the same expectation as you do. A lot of it comes from the initial Wii video that Nintendo debuted, which showed people jumping around their couch, etc.
It's already been mentioned by several developers and 1st hand accounts that many of the Wii motions ARE going to be simple flicks of the wrist. A lot of it is due to arm strength issues. I cringe at the thought of playing a first-person shooter (like Metroid), where I have to keep my arm outstretched for long periods of time for aiming. (Try it yourself, you'll cave in a few minutes, no matter how fit you are
The exception, though, are the sports games
-- jchenx
For the cost of a PS3, I could buy an XBOX 360 and a couple of prostitutes to pleasure me while I play Geometry Wars! Clearly this is a superior value.
You're right, all of these "[non-PS3 console] + [something else] = PS3!" comparisons are pretty dang silly. If I can't afford a PS3, what makes you think I can afford "Wii60"? Not to mention the games you'd have to buy to justify having two consoles -- whether the combo cost the same as a PS3 or not, it would be dumb to have a $250/$400 console with one or two games.
It does make some sense though if you're the kind of person who would buy two consoles -- MS is basically making the case that you would have more money left over to buy the best games of theirs + nintendo's. Lucky for MS that the Wii almost fits in the price delta between the 360 and PS3. That's the only group I can see buying into this.
The enemies of Democracy are
Isometrics are amazingly wonderful. Sit up against a wall as if a chair is there. I used to do this all the time and it's great for fast-twitch sprinting.
"People think the controller is going to be some wonderful gaming device, but it is strictly for casual and brief gaming. Any more than that and you will get wrist strain."
Excuse me for being skeptical until you actually get some factual evidence to support this. I mean, maybe I'm crazy, but I have a suspicion that Nintendo's engineers and playtesters would have noted such a problem -- if it exists -- long before the system was shown to the public.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Sorry. Meant to mod it "informative" but the mouse slipped as I clicked it.
When the 360Dashboard is as good as XBMC, then maybe I'll consider getting a 360. That means, the 360 needs to be able to play madia off network shares, and it has to play more than wmvs, it has to play divx, dvd isos etc.
la la la
Last time I bought an xBox it ended up I only bought four games for it, three of which were cross-platform and thus not needed.
I can't see wasting money on the 360, as I still don't see any games that I want for it which aren't cross-platform.
I'll stick to buying the Wii and maybe buy a PS3 to run structural genomics Linux work on when the price drops below $300.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I think it's good to be skeptical. One other thing that bugs me is that some games (Battalion Wars comes to mind) are treating the Wii-mote interface much like a mouse. You're expected to move the cursor and manipulate it accurately, to select menu options and such. That
That said, I'm still excited about the whole concept. There will undoubtedly be a lot of initial hiccups, especially as developers figure out the right usage for the Wii-mote. But I am hoping that, like DS games, things will get much better.
-- jchenx
Imagine you could use a laser pointer on your TV as a mouse. That is basically what the Wii is. All the motion sensing stuff is very marginal.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Touché!
Seriously.. I'm not worried about the majority of Wii games making my arm sore after an hour of play, or 4 hours of play... Most games will not require you do wave the controller around madly, atleast not often. Liekly it wont require much mroe movement than usign a computer mouse. Also, its not like you are wavign around a 10lb weight... it looks like its probably lighter than an Xbox 360 or PS3 controller.
;)
Hell, i might even invest in some wrist and ankle weights to wear when playing the Wii... would give me a tiny workout, and stop me from wasting too much time, since I WOULD get tired after a while
My hand touched her hand. Her hand touched her boob. By the transitive property, I got some boob! Algebra is awesome!
This post is awesome. I don't quite understand why, but it is.
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
You're completely wrong.
I've tried it. Have you?
everything in moderation
Aside from the fact that the guy is working for MS, and as such his words aren't speculations but marketing - why would anyone be so stupid? The Wii is the platform for the living room and looking at the list of games it'll be more than enough in that capacity. What is needed to complete the picture is not another console with the same type of games (just prettier. oh, shiney!) - but instead a proper computer for the non-console games.
:-)
Wii60, yeah right. Good thing they asked marketing first so the initial idea of "WiiX" could be discarded.(*)
(*) same pronounciation as a rude term for masturbation in german...
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
the Wii-60 movement
Like most things Microsoft, even this imaginary movement is total vaporware. Nobody outside of Peter's head has seen a "Wii-60 movement" so far.
Nor does it make any sense. People are waiting eagerly for the Wii. The fact that some of them already bought an Xbox doesn't make them into some sort of longing-for-the-combined-power freak, and there's as much of a "Wii-60" movement as there's a "Wii-Ford" movement because some people who'll buy a Wii happen to own a Ford car.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
You know, most PC games are still on CDs. And often only on one or two. With console games on DVDs, I've rarely run into a game that required more than one, and they were all RPGs where I went days (if not weeks) between actually needing to switch discs.
If we were still dealing with gobs of pre-rendered CG video, then you MIGHT need the extra space. But with consoles being a lot more powerful nowadays, most story scenes are rendered in real-time, which I usually prefer anyway. It's less "jarring" moving from game to cinematic. You also have the benefit of keeping the characters dressed/positioned however they were in the scene. (It's annoying when a game cuts to pre-rendered cinematic, and your characters are wearing something completely different from one scene to the next)
So, I really don't see this huge pressing need for HD-DVD or Blu-ray games. Sure, it's a "nice to have", but not worth paying an extra $100-200 for it. If I had to choose, I'd rather have the rich online features that Xbox Live provides, or have some cool, innovative control scheme, like what the Wii offers. Larger storage capacity for my games? I still need lots of convincing. The PS3 games that have been shown so far, hardly look better than 360 games.
<rant>
You know, Sony would probably piss off a lot fewer people if they didn't blantantly lie or act like assholes, in regards to the PS3. It's the high-and-mighty attitude of you NEEDING the power of the Cell, of how the PS3 is actually REALLY CHEAP considering what's in it, and how only the PS3 offers TRUE HD. Blah blah blah.
All that they should have done is focus on the features people actually seem to care about, such as online functionality. I'm even fine with them pimping Blu-ray, but only for movies. And most importantly, focus on the games and all the exclusives that they often secure. That's the main reason why my PS2 was played far more than my Xbox (I'm a huge RPG fan). But all this system hype coming from Sony and their fanboys is seriously turning me off.
</rant>
-- jchenx
You are wrong. Try doing a Google search for wii60, and you'll find plenty of homegrown enthusiasm for it. That's what Moore was referring to.
I believe this whole thing started shortly after E3 and the PS3 price announcement, when some clever posters in a gaming forum put two and two together and guessed that a Wii + 360 combo would be equivalent to a premium PS3. (It was a guess, because Wii pricing didn't come until much later) Lots of amusing photoshopped images ensued, and before you knew it, a new Internet meme was born.
-- jchenx
The problem with being farther away, though, is that it's harder to be precise. It's akin to cranking up the mouse sensitivity really high. Turning around in an FPS will be really easy, but sniping might be a lot harder.
Unfortunately, I've seen videos of Wii games which already appear to require some decent precision. Look up the video for Battalion Wars 2 for the Wii. I saw one area where you were essentially using the Wii-mote as if it were a mouse, and you used the cursor to select menu options and such. My hand starts cramping just at the thought of that. I really do hope it's not as bad as it seems like it'll be.
With the mouse, your hand is able to lay on top of it, so there's no strain in keeping it up. Yet, a lot of folks (myself included) do have RSI-like symptoms after using a mouse for a long time (especially a non-ergonomic one). So I definately am worried about games that require long bouts of precision.
Granted, I'm still quite interested in the console in general, and I think there are many other games and play modes that will make GOOD use of the Wii-mote. But there will most certainly be titles that don't use it correctly. It's the same way how many initial DS games were far too gimmicky, but definately got better as the console and its developers matured.
-- jchenx
Obviously anyone who works for Nintendo is bound to an NDA, so they would not be able to talk about such a problem to the public. Now, if the problem doesn't exist at all, then this whole discussion is moot, and everyone will be happy. However, if the problem DOES exist, what will Nintendo do about it? Delay the Wii until they can completely analyze the problem, and make sure it never happens? Or try to mitigate it as much as possible (tell developers NOT to use the Wii-mote in certain ways), and perhaps buy some time and keep the console on track?
Anyone who's owned Nintendo's portables over the past few years, knows that the second option is what they tend to do. Who here remembers the awful lighting problems of the original GBA? *raises hand* Who here remembers the original, clunky DS? *raises hand* Also, who here traded in their original GBA and DS for the new & improved versions of each? *raises hand*
Frankly, I've been rather annoyed at Nintendo's track record when it comes to hardware. Yet, I can't stay away, so they're definately doing something right. I imagine it'll be the same with the Wii. I don't think Nintendo would improve the hardware, though, but rather find the "right way" for the Wii-mote to be used and learn from it.
Oh, and one last thing
That said, I will still get a Wii. But I'm setting myself to be "pleasantly surprised", rather than enormously disappointed by the hype. I would suggest other Wii enthusiasts to do the same!
-- jchenx
I always see the claim of people running Linux on their consoles, be it a PS2 with the Linux kit, or a modded Xbox, or intend to with the PS3. Obviously you see this heavily with Slashdot commentators. Just curious, is something that you ACTUALLY do, or is it just a throwaway comment?
...
To me, running Linux on a console would be an interesting novelty, but that's it. I understand the cost-benefits in buying a "cheap" platform that's sold at a loss, but for practicality (ability to modify parts, troubleshoot hardware problems, etc.), I'd rather just get a cheap PC to use instead.
According to Wikipedia, the PS2 Linux kit was a poor seller, so something tells me that the claim of running Linux on a console really is just a throwaway comment after all
-- jchenx
a new Internet meme was born.
I'm not convinced. I practically live on the Internet, the two times during the day where I'm not near a computer that's online is during lunch and when I sleep.
I've never heard this outside of MS or MS-sponsored channels. None of the people I work with (all tech enthusiasts) have mentioned it. None of the people I mail with have. Maybe it was short-lived, maybe you and I have different circles, maybe it's a US-only phenomenon - but there's no "movement" visible from over here.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Well, perhaps not a true Internet meme, but a gaming-oriented one. You might be a tech enthusiast, but are you a gaming one? Ever heard of the Leeroy Jenkins video, or "50 DKP minus"? Or seen the PS3 George Foreman grill photos?
If you're still in doubt, just head on over to the Penny Arcade forums, or surf around 1up.com, Joystiq, Kotaku and read the comments sometimes. Wii60 is certainly not an "MS sponsored" meme, especially considering Moore a few weeks ago tried to downplay his initial Wii60 comments.
-- jchenx