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An Affordable Pro-Quality Sound Card?
TFGeditor asks: "The company I work for is launching a pre-recorded radio program. I will be working with other staff (all in remote locations) to create the sound clips and then cobbling the show together (mixing). I will also interface with the co-host at a remote studio over the net via uber-broadband connection, producing our portion of the show as if we were in the same studio interacting with each other. What is the best sound card for the money (PC/XP) for this type of application?"
Everything is compatible with it.
The one that is marginally better than your speakers/headphones. What kind of speakers will you be using to preview the sound?
There is no point getting an über sound card if you have unter speakers.
M-AUDIO has some fantastic pro-sumer sound cards and equipment.
http://www.m-audio.com/
Get thee to an Audio forum, fool.
I'm not normally one to complain about "Ask Slashdot" questions, but this isn't the best community to turn to for a recording question. There are forums in which nearly every member has bought many different audio interfaces -- you want one of those, not Slashdot.
Just why do I think the terms "pro-quality" and "affordable" don't mix?
IMO, "pro-quality" means: having this be less good than your competitor's means you don't eat. "Affordable" well seems to be a little less picky.
It's hard to make a recommendation without knowing at a granular level what you want to do. How many inputs? How many outputs? Is latency an issue? What about frequency/bitrate? Digital inputs? Analog? MADI? Lightpipe? Some light reading... On the ULTRA high end, you would go with Apogee- http://www.apogeedigital.com/ - these are some of the industry's best da/ad converters; and with something like a big ben+rosetta on firewire, you'd be in good hands. Another contender could be rme http://www.rme-audio.com/ Then there's motu's line of products - http://www.motu.com/ - I've personally owned several of their interfaces and can tell you right out of the gate they're great. Good bang for the buck... Then you've got m-audio http://www.m-audio.com/ edirol http://www.edirol.com/ presonus http://www.presonus.com/
http://www.bistolas.net
good luck...
I probably wouldn't go for an internal card. Better to have an external box in many ways. This one a friend of mine has and it's very good for the money.
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http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/AudiophileU
I've only used it on OSX but I think the drivers should be just as reliable on XP.
This one sounds even better but is more expensive and you'll need firewire.
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/traveler-press
I've got their 828mkII and this one uses the same DAC/DAC as that which sound really good.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
I have a soundblaster X-Fi: XtremeMusic. If you can get over the kind of goofy name, it's a very, very nice card. I have only done a little recording on it, but it's powerful (51 mn transistors) and clear (136 decibel signal to noise ratio). It can do all the normal stuff like surround sound, plus some cool stereo -> surround stuff. If you need weird inputs or an optical out, you'll need to go with one of the slightly more expensive cards, but for digital i/o or 3 stereo plugs, this card is awesome.
You've more or less asked what's the best car for driving to and from work and around town. Good luck with that.
There's a huge variety of pro and semi-pro audio gear on the market. If you've got detailed requirements then you need to start reading tech specs and reviews. If you don't have detailed requirements then just search for "usb audio interface" and/or "firewire audio interface" and pick something in the $100-$200 range.
There are a vast number of features and quite a wide price range and I really doubt there's an objective "best" any more than there's an objective "best" car that everyone would agree is better than all the others.
It's a great card. I own one and it's great if you can manage the wiring. It's all unbalanced RCA and MIDI connections, so it's not that out of thr ordinary. But if you don't have RCA jacks on your speakers you'll need a adapter for them. The card runs about 100 bucks.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
I've had no problems with the Creative Audigy series. They also have a ton of hookups as well, including MIDI.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
The iMic USB soundcards are really nice. Good quality parts, 48k@24 bit recording (iirc). Interface-wise these cards are very simple. They pretty much just have volume and balance, no frilly features to speak of. Oh, and it runs on Mac, Linux, Windows, etc. without special drivers. By far one of the best (consumer-grade) sound cards I've ever used. And no, I don't work for them.
Accept Eris as your Fnord and personally sate her
You probably want something like an M-Audio firewire unit. Another poster recommended the 2496 box, which is excellent. Their other models work well, too.
An external unit will prevent the electric noise from your PC from causing issues, and using firewire instead of USB will mean less CPU usage for the same work.
Echo makes some good budget pro audio cards, 20 or 24 bit DACs, well designed, with propper sheilding. Pick one that meets your needs for input / output channels. Be sure to have a sound engineer hook things up, or at the very least learn how to avoid ground loops. If you don't have any PCI slots, theres good external boxes out there that plug in via Firewire. Also you can possibly find a good PCIe card.
I'm no expert at this, but hang out in certain audio/video boards and read professionals' opinions on this (and stayed at a Holiday Inn last night). The common advice is to get an external audio interface that hooks to your computer via USB 2.0 or Firewire. The reason for this is that the electronic environment inside the PC case is extremely noisy (RF interference) making it almost impossible to get really clean audio if the analog audio circuitry is in there. That's why any professional audio card you see is usually external. I have seen M-Audio and motu recommended too. Oh, and what someone said about noise-free environment (quiet room) and correct microphone are also very important.
By the way, I imagine you'll probably find a better selection (and prices) of these interfaces at your local Guitar Center or discount music superstore than at your regular computer parts store.
Good luck.
Internal sound cards have gotten pretty darn good, but you can still wind up with RF noise leaking into the audio. Keeping the ADC/DAC outside of the computer eliminates the possibility.
The ESI Julia@ and Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 are very very nice cards.Quite popular in Malaysia as it is dirt cheap,or u could even go for a modified 0404 ,though i am not so sure on the price
Since discontinued, but more likely than not better quality than anything you're going to need.
Get thee to Ebay!
(No, that is not my auction.)
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
M-Audio make great cards in a wide price range. Their lower end units aren't "pro-quality", but they're definitely on the right path.
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Seriously. Their quality has gone up quite a bit in the past few years, but it's still not as nice as the MOTU, Echo, or M-Audio gear. Creative sells a great deal of gear to people who believe gimmickry like their claims of impossible S/N ratios, so you must understand that their efforts are really focused on attention-grabbing features (like 5.1 simulations from stereo in hardware) instead of quality (like rock-solid clock signals). Also, their drivers suck. Professionals DO NOT use Creative's products, and their attention to professional features like simple, solid drivers is lacking for that reason. Other manufacturers cater to the crowd that is more discriminating about these details and don't care about 3D audio accelleration in games, for example.
Finally, they recently had a serious issue where they advertised 24bit audio, but it was only 24bit on PLAYBACK. This may have been resolved, but I recently saw some posts on a forum that indicated that it wasn't. I have been doing semi-pro audio on PC's since the days of the Turtle Beach Tahiti in 1994 (back when TB made really wonderful gear... sigh) and I would never trust my music to a Creative Labs product. -NEVER-
A friend has the Mia and we're wrapping up an EP on it for our mastering setup. We recorded at my place where I use a Yamaha 01V digital mixer with an optical connection to a Terratec EWS/88D (older stuff, but I like it). The Mia is nice. I've heard great things about the recent M-Audio products as well. You should strongly consider an external box if you are doing recording (as opposed to mixing). Cards are still prone to noise (although it's much better these days than when PC audio first started) and breaking it out from the inside of the EM-washed case makes a big difference. Not to mention that if you get a firewire or USB device you can use it with your laptop and have a mobile recording solution (of course, you will then not be able to match the latency of a PCI card; this explains why I have a card but I use the card as a digital interface to an external A/D D/A converter, my mixer).
Good gas milage, looks stupid (turns heads), and your farts will smell like roses.
My other first post is car post.
If you're just mixing down prerecorded clips already in digital form, then delivering them to another location in digital form, your sound card doesn't matter. The content isn't going through it. What does matter is the software you're using to assemble the show.
So how come /. and Fark fade out and leave me sans entertainment before I crash? Cant we outsource some help to a different time zone?
Is this what you english people would call an oxymoron?
You might also want to check out E-MU cards. I'm not in the business, but their products seem pretty professional to me. I own an E-MU 1212m (because I am into hi-fi) and love it.
He asked a specific yet open-ended question on slashdot, of the form "pro performance for cheap". He's obviously not looking for a real answer. He's looking for entertaintment.
Dear slashdot editors, YHBT.
Now, the only audio input work I've done was digitizing vinyl, which isn't all that taxing. However, I'm fairly particular about sound quality.
What I've determined is that even good quality on board D/A equipment is poor. Much better, for a number of reasons, to use an external converter plugged in to an spdif jack (input and output).
I'm very happy with my EMU 1820, though for what you plan to do it may be overkill- I doubt you have much of a need for 8 channels of analog input + 10 digital channels, not to mention the other 14 host sources you can mix in(total of 32 channels hardware mixing). But the EMU cards also offer hardware accelerated effects... some of which, especially compression, can be quite important for broadcasting. Taking the load off your CPU can make a big difference sometimes.
Look for high quality DACs. Don't worry too much about 24 bit bit depth, or 96/192khz sample rates... 44.1/16 implemented well will be overkill as it is for any sort of radio broadcast or webcast. If you do want to go further, bit depth will generally mean more than sample rates, at least in my experience recording stuff- but there is little need unless you want to master for an analog medium and get aural advantages over compact discs.
The one problem with EMU cards is the tendency for the driver to go mental and corrupt itself. On the upside, this has only happened to me on boot- you really don't need to worry aobut it dying in the middle of a session. On the other hand it sometimes requires registry surgery and manual deletion of files in c:\windows\system32\ to let you reinstall the drivers. This doesn't happen often, but it's certainly a pain in the ass when it does.
For the capabilities they offer, the EMU cards are priced quite low. But as explained above, driver stability can sometimes be a significant issue. If you need 24/7 immediate availability, don't get them. But given that the worst case is probably that you lose an hour a day every 4-6 months(probably less), they can be quite good for many contexts.
You pay extras for the shiny box and the horrible software that's forcibly tacked on. Skip the Audigy.
Seconding the Audiophile 2496 request by the way, it's a workhorse of a card.
The best bang for the buck I've found (and used) is the Echo Mia Midi PCI card. It is a pain getting it to work on Linux, but it will work there and I assume it is much more easily configured under Windows or on a Mac.
AFAIK all the songs at the site www.mauiruhisongs.com were recorded using that card [disclaimer: religious content], so you can listen there to get an idea of the quality of the sound.
Two channels in and two out are not enough for some though.
Here be Apogee they make reasonable convertors. I know people doing voice work with the audiophile but let's not pretend it's professional kit, it isn't.
I own an Echo Mia MIDI, which has the same ADACs as the M-Audio 24-96 but lower noise and better sound (circut design??). Some other popular high-end vendors in a slightly higher price range are Marian and RME
If you're going to record voice you'll need a bunch of good condenser microphones and a mixer capable of supplying them the 48V phantom power. That means unbalanced inputs (at least) and XLR connectors + noiseless cables. You will also need a good environment to take recordings: take into account some sound absorbing panels, they're not cheap. As for the soundcard, the M-Audio is a good cheap (and Linux compatible) choice: I love my Delta 44 also because of the nice penguin on its box:*).
A couple hints on voice recording: when you use compressors and limiters, don't do as many cheap TV and radio station "sound technicians" do, ie don't set them to maximum or automatic mode: you will need to adjust them each and every time on the voice of the recorded person. If somebody talks too softly or too far from the mic, the compressor must -not- be set to raise the signal level to the point that you get a ton of background noise: you have to talk to the person and ask him/her to talk straight into the mic at one palm distance.
For my home studio I use an M-Audio Delta 1010LT. It has 10 ins, 10 outs, and two balanced xlr inputs. It records 24bit at 96KHz and there is no audible noise. Works great with Ardour. The card itself is around $200. It's best to pick up a decent mixer with Inserts for managing the channels.
Make sure to get some decent speakers for them or a good set of headphones with a flat frequency response. Flat frequency response is important to make sure what you edit sounds good everywhere. When I first started with recording, the headphones I used put a lot of bass in the sound. Guess what my mixes were lacking when played through other setups?
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
Here's another vote for an external firewire interface.
For what you are trying to accomplish, you should be able to get an interface and a chinese large-diaphragm condenser together in the $300-500 range. For example, a PreSonus Firebox (~$300) and a Studio Projects B1 (~$100).
For a place to get started shopping, Sweetwater has incredible customer service. BSW has some "podcast" packages with everything you'd need to get started.
I've had experience with both Edirol and M-Audio devices, and in my experience the Edirol ones come closer to meeting their advertised capabilities and are more likely to come with drivers that work. I had an M-Audio Transit audio interface for my mac, and they were NEVER able to get the drivers to work properly. My friend returned a fairly high-end M-Audio Firewire interface box because it wouldn't work properly with his computer (again, a driver issue we suspect)... I've seen none of these problems with equipment from Edirol.
You might want to give Sweetwater Sound a call and explain to them what your goals are. Also give them the budget you have to work with. They should be able to help you put together a package that suits your needs. Also note that when you look at their Computer Audio section that they don't sell a single thing by Creative. There's a reason for this.
This guy's the limit!
No joke. Not trolling. Consider the cost of something like an iMac that might be able to most or all of this right "out of the box."
I can't believe that people on here are recommending M-Audio. I admit, if you want to pay next-to-nothing, then M-Audio is reasonable. If you don't actually want to do professional production (just high quality amateur stuff), then M-Audio is fine. Then again, for just a little more money, you can get some of the best preamps on the market.
For the price, the Mackie Onyx preamps are absolutely unbeatable. I have used many, many, many, many mixers and preamps, and the Mackie Onyx is the only "live" mixer that I will also use in the studio (I use it when I need more than the 24 tracks offered by my d8b).
A full Onyx mixer is probably more than you need, but lucky for you, Mackie sells a two channel, firewire enabled Onyx preamp called the Onyx Satellite for only $500.
And, it comes bundled with Mackie Tracktion, which is, admittedly, not as great as some of the other software packages, but for the price it is remarkably solid.
burrocrisy
and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
The VIA Envy24 chip combined with a quality I2S codec chip (AKM Semiconductor) will suit your needs. Stay away from the Envy24HT-S, Envy24PT, and Envy24GT as they are lower-end chips geared for the consumer markets. I'd go for S/PDIF digital interconnects if you can foot the bill.
Do they even make a sound card with discrete components in the output stage, or are they all made with the same OP amp cheap ass output stages? Personally, I would like a sound card that the rest of my high-end audio system doesn't laugh at.
Windows has more viruses because linux has more virus coders.
The Tascam US-122 is cheap (around 200 last time I checked), runs over USB (so it works with just about everything) and has 2 mic/line inputs with phantom power. It also comes with recording software bundled into it - I sold pro audio for years and this thing is fantastic bang-for-buck - if you want more "industry standard compatibility" get an MBox which comes with protools. If that's not your concern, just get the Tascam and spend the money you saved to buy a pair of nice condensor mics. The RE-20 is a classic radio mic - on the cheaper tip, I have a R0DE NT-1 and for the 200 earth dollars it costs, it sounds great - really warm and pretty
-w
calling all destroyers
I have scored several films ,produced and engineered quite a few albums and cut several radio and podcast spots using Presonus Firepods http://www.presonus.com/. It has just about all the IO you could ask for in an 8 (10 if you count spdif) channel box. You can also daisy chain 3 of them for a 24 channel stack. Also, it is rack mountable so you can readily take it on the road. Overall things just work and I, and my customers, have been very pleased with the sound quality. Not to mention, you get balanced and unbalanced capabilities. To keep things quiet I don't run anything unbalanced if there is more that 3 feet of cable.
If the firepod is a bit much they also offer cut down versions. The firebox, which is a 2 channel unit, and the inspire which has 4 channels.
Digidesign http://www.digidesign.com/, Echo http://www.echoaudio.com/ and Mackie http://www.mackie.com/ also have some really nice gear but can be a bit pricy. I do agree with staying away from m-audio. Their MIDI stuff is phenominal but the audio gear is lacking. I would say the same for lower level Alesis and anything from Behringer.
I also must echo earlier posts in saying that you shouldn't skimp on mics. Your end product is only as good as your source. I would recommend a good condenser from AudioTechnica or MXL for price/quality.
Also, your monitors (for you non-audio folks these are the speakers, not the video display) are also critical to getting a mix that translates well to other systems. You will find that if you use standard stereo speakers or, God forbid, computer speakers what you put out will sound extremely different from stereo to stereo as you listen in different environments.
I personally use Event TR8Ns with a KRK Rockit 10 subwoofer but these babies ain't cheap at $1000.00US per pair. I would recommend looking into KRK http://www.krksys.com/. I did some post work on the latest Stereofuge album with Mark Slaughter producing and we did the entire mix on them and it sounded fat-tastic. In any case, you will want a good near-field monitor that is self powered to eliminate transients.
Finally, clean up your power. You'll be amazed at the difference a $60.00US power conditioner can make to the quality of the sound you get. I use Furman http://www.furmansound.com/ conditioners. This is a good tip for anyone who has a home-theater or high-end gaming system as well.
A good set of reference books for audio newbs is a series of books by Bobby Owsinski. Starting with the recording engineers handbook (available at amazon) they will give you enough info to be extremely dangerous.
I didn't mean to be so verbose but I hope some of this is useful.
I have one and am very happy with it. It's an external USB 2.0 device, which IMHO provides a couple of key advantages: (1) being external, it is isolated from computer noise; (2) being USB 2.0, it is easily moved between computers.
Several other advantages: (3) it works with laptops if you want to be more portable; (4) it's supported by a wide variety of software; (5) it does PC or Mac (I happen to use it with a Mac laptop).
It does audio in/out (all kinds of connectors, both analog and digital), and also provides a MIDI interface, should you need that.
I have been searching for a good sound card myself, started with Adlib, had on the road SB16, 32, Gravis Ultrasound (PRO) and currently I got a Digital Mistique. A very cheap and quality soundcard where you can change the DAC's. I've been using it for digitalizing my vinyl and sampling and the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty low for this soundcard (even with the already existing DAC's).
It supports 7.1, Dolby Live, has a optical and coaxial SP/DIF ; it just works.
With the Creative Labs Audigy I always had the problems that the SP/DIF did not return true surround ; which was needed for me for my productions. This card has true surround which gets exported through its digital connector; instead of with the Creative Labs where you need to buy an additional box to get the 3 speakercables to a true 5.1/7.1 digital connection....
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Get a job, get a better job, or save your money. Then you should be able afford a darned good sound card, even the ones at $1000.
I'd have to agree 101% with that. I had my machine consistently crash in windows XP, and I would honestly have to absolve Microsoft of blame in the face that creative's shitty drives seemed to be the cause. Running linux with open drives had no such issues (and for cards of similar cost, I *do* recommend creative labs cards for linux, or at least SBLive, because the Open-Source drivers are pretty decent and do handle hardware mixing). When I later tried it on other windows machines, they crashed as well until I found a third-party driver (tons of functionality, and more stable).. though offhand I can't remember the name (I use it at work on some machines, not home).