Slashdot Mirror


Why Do We Prefer Sequels?

jayintune writes "2old2play has up an editorial about our love affair, as gamers, with sequels." From the article: "Sequels make us feel comfortable. Control schemes and gameplay doesn't need to be totally relearned. If you train to be a sniper in Halo 2, hopefully you will still be a good sniper in Halo 3. I still remember the disappointment I felt when they totally changed the light saber controls when Jedi Outcast came out. For an 'old school' player like me with many hours of practice, a new control scheme was just too much to relearn. A good sequel will retain mechanics to retain the existing user base and hopefully add new players as well."

121 comments

  1. Could it be the story?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know, it's shocking... but could it be we've invested time and emotion in storylines and characters? That's the primary reason I play sequels. They're like old friends.

    1. Re:Could it be the story?! by lupine_stalker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure I "prefer" sequels as much as that I am denied the opportunity to play new games by the overwhelming flood of sequels and ports released every month. I've always held it to be a tragedy that I am often denied the chance to play a game like Shadow of the Colossus because the store owner has decided to get a few more rows of the latest Madden game. I am quite happy to play a sequel of a game I have liked, Half-Life 2 for example, but I would much rather play a new franchise like Hellgate: London, or Mass Effect. Oh, and this may be off topic but come on! Is it that hard to have a Star Wars game without being forced to be a Jedi? I wanted to be Han Solo as a kid, not Luke Skywalker.

      --
      Ninjas use italics.
    2. Re:Could it be the story?! by PoderOmega · · Score: 1

      How were you denied a chance to play Shadow of the Colossus? Its a greatest hit now so its all over big retail stores and I still see at every store I go to. I agree you we are denied unique games based publisher funding, but not on shelf space.

  2. Same reason we prefer McDonald's by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The reason we prefer sequels is the same reason we "prefer" McDonald's. We know what we are getting. Sure it may not be the best, but there are no surprises, and we don't have to worry about the food being bad.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by demondawn · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...I assume you live in Canada? In the U.S., "we don't have to worry about the food being bad" would be a logical fallacy.

    2. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do live in Canada, but the food from McDonald's is still bad. But I eat there once in a while because it's fast, and I know what I'm getting. It's a consistent product. I mean, you could go to that no-name place down the road, but you never know, it could end up being worse than McDonald's.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cut thread here

    4. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except that with McDonald's, the reason you don't have to worry is that you KNOW it's bad. Then again, that would be why I don't eat at McDonald's.

    5. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by rob1980 · · Score: 2, Funny

      and we don't have to worry about the food being bad

      Haven't seen and/or played Final Fantasy X-2 then, I take it? :)

    6. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My strategy for situations where McDonalds is teh best 'dining' choice has become: eat a Snickers. Really hungry? Eat 2 Snickers. I am pretty sure it is healthier.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all about predictability. Knowing that the food will taste like a worn out old nike shoe means you don't have to worry about it.

    8. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by AcidLacedPenguiN · · Score: 1

      oblig "wish I had mod points" post.
      I bet if you had some OJ with that it'd be more nutritous, too.

      --
      disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
    9. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by thefirelane · · Score: 1

      "we don't have to worry about the food being bad" would be a logical fallacy.

      False, whether the food is bad does not cause me worry when I walk into a Mac Donalds.

    10. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by WageDomain · · Score: 1

      Surprise, eating less food and drinking healthier drinks is more healthy? I guess I don't get it. I don't think anyone here was saying that McDonalds was healthy, just that it's nice to eat, at least sometimes. I happen to enjoy McDonalds food for some reason, but I know it's bad so I limit my intake. What you said is stupid though. It's the same as saying "I could eat a salad and it would be healthier" or "I could eat nothing and not gain any weight!" Of course, it's cause and effect.

    11. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by mcbiondi · · Score: 1

      Ugh. Food at McDonalds is gross - very greasy, not quite real meat and over all disgusting. Plus really, really bad (though extremely hot) coffee. What is there to like about it?

    12. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by AcidLacedPenguiN · · Score: 1

      Sentence the second answers your question. thank you.

      --
      disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
    13. Re:Same reason we prefer McDonald's by Monkey · · Score: 1

      I find your comment ironic given your user name.

  3. Uhhh... by rob1980 · · Score: 1

    We prefer sequels? This is news to me.

    1. Re:Uhhh... by Mullen · · Score: 1

      No shit. Give me original content any day of the week.

      --
      Linux O Muerte!
    2. Re:Uhhh... by Lazerf4rt · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Come on buddy, let's not dodge the question... Why? And another thing, why are we all such avid Justin Timberlake fans? And why do we roll around naked in mayonnaise all the time? These are all straightforward questions. It's about time we faced them.

    3. Re:Uhhh... by Lazerf4rt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Although, you gotta admit, most Mario games are sequels and feature original gameplay and content.

    4. Re:Uhhh... by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      No shit. Give me original content any day of the week.

      You make a common mistake -- an "original" game is no more novel nor innovative than a "sequel". In fact, since time has to be spent on developing a new premise, we actually wind up with less original content than if a sequal had been made.

    5. Re:Uhhh... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Although, you gotta admit, most Mario games are sequels and feature original gameplay and content."

      It's easier to describe Mario games as a franchise instead of sequels. I have no problem calling Mario Sunshine a sequel, but Mario 64? Different animal.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    6. Re:Uhhh... by flewp · · Score: 1

      Pffft, you role around in mayonnaise? Miracle Whip is where it's at. Loser.

      --
      WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
  4. Ask me again... by Hamster+Lover · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "Why do we prefer sequels?"

  5. fear of death? by mackil · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps it is our inner fear of death that makes us love sequels. As long as the story continues, our hero or heroine, will live forever in our minds. This might possibly negate the feeling of our own impending doom as we sit in the theater.

    On the other hand, there are those sequels where we wish death would visit us before the end of the movie. So in conclusion, who knows really.

    1. Re:fear of death? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, there are those sequels where we wish death would visit us before the end of the movie

      Oh, you poor wretch... You went to see the 2nd and/or 3rd Matrix movies, didn't you. There, there... it'll be okay...

  6. The story must go on. by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I happen to think it has little to do with control schemes et al.

    It is more about the story, believe it or not. I mean, hello? Most FPS games share almost identical control schemes. And if the defaults aren't the same between Quake 4 and F.E.A.R then you have free reign to change the controls.

    No, I think it's the story. A story creates a world in our imaginations. A world which if we find we enjoy we will want to continue to visit.

    Why do I want a sequal to a movie like The Matrix? Because (actual sequels aside) I want to be able to go back to the world the Wachowski's created, be a part of it even if I'm just the observer.

    TLF

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    1. Re:The story must go on. by cowscows · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In some cases it's the story, but sometimes it's just the gameplay. Mario Kart didn't have much of a story on the SNES, but it was fun as hell multiplayer, and it's still fun as hell two versions later with some friends sitting around the Gamecube.

        I'm as much for innovation as the next guy, but there's nothing wrong with building on a successful formula or continuing a successful franchise.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    2. Re:The story must go on. by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I can't wait to see how Unreal Tournament 2007 resolves the cliffhanger ending of 2004!

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    3. Re:The story must go on. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      It's not controls as much as game mechanics. Sequels usually feature the same game mechanics and specific behaviours (if they don't you can bet your ass the fans will complain). For example, many RTS games control the same but the Command & Conquer series has a clear split between vehicles and infantry where most weapons are only effective against one of them and generally battles are pretty short. Contrast that with the Age of Empires games (and its imitators) where units can take a lot more damage, generally there's a lot more rock-paper-scissors balancing (where each unit is a counter for a specific other unit, not a unit group) and many ressource types. There was a big uproar when C&C Generals replaced the C&C standard monolithic build system with the genre standard system where each factory or constructor had an independent build queue.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  7. Here's a Theory by rabbitfood · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Folk with unhappy childhoods crave consistency. Sequels (usually) provide consistency. The piece is run on a site for older, primarily US. gamers.

    Next story: Tortoises run slowly.

    1. Re:Here's a Theory by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      Your comments are odd, and seem to be biased against Americans who are in the older age group for gamers. You seem to think that these people would have had unhappy childhoods.

      People in that demographic would have grown up in the 1970's and 1980's. Those were two of the best decades to grow up in the U.S.

      The people would have been young enough not to have dealt with the Vietnam war. The US was moving into an economic boom, things were IMPROVING. People are always happiest when things are getting better.

      We had plenty to eat- yet obesity had not hit an epidemic.
      By this time we knew the Russkies were chumps, so we didn't stress about that.
      The problems in the middle east were finally hitting us (Tehran hostages) but Ronnie Regan fixed that mess

      So I disagree with what you were trying to infer. Older gamers in the US did not generally have an unhappy childhood.

      --
      No reason to lie.
  8. Not starting form scratch by Headcase88 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So as said before, you're comfortable with the controls, characters, and storyline, and you figure it's going to be as good as the lsat one, but I have another reason to contribute:

    they already have the characters and story developed, and usually they have an engine to build with too. In other words, they're not starting from scratch, so they have more time to make a better game.

    Take Mario Power Tennis, as a random example. They already had the actual Tennis part down (and down well), so they had time to tweak the controls, and add lots of fun gimmick courts and mini-games that fit well with the existing engine. (Also you get the power shots, but I'm lukewarm on those).

    It's especially good if you were new to the series, because it's like you're getting everything the N64 game and those cool additions.

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    1. Re:Not starting form scratch by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

      Oops, thought I was in games. Nothing to see here, please move along :P

      Slow down, Cowboy... blah blah blah.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  9. All right, there is something to see here afterall by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

    Oh, this is about games... some of the comments gave me the impression that it was movies.

    Well /., I guess you were right to tell me to slow down... this time.

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  10. You prefer McDonald's? by CurbyKirby · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I mean, you could go to that no-name place down the road, but you never know, it could end up being worse than McDonald's.

    If I'm considering a no-name place down the road that isn't supported by millions of dollars of advertising and support infrastructure and yet is able to stay open, I'd be optimistic enough to think that it might be better than something I know is uniformly awful. If the no-name place is new, at least they'll be wanting to make a good first impression. If variety is the spice of life, why is a consistently bland McSomething so impressive anyway? (And if you think the no-name place is more likely to make you sick, please watch Supersize Me or find another way of waking up).

    --

    --
    "Extra Anus Kills Four-Legged Chick" -- Headline
    1. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't stop yourself in a McD's from eating like Supersize Me? You were onto a point there then you brought up that strawman set to film and you lost it.

    2. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by PresidentEnder · · Score: 1

      In my hometown, we had 4 restaraunts in the same location in the space of 2 years. One of these closed because the owner/manager/do-everything woman quit, leaving me unemployed. The other three had awful food. Just because the no-name place is new doesn't mean they're trying their hardest.

      --
      I used to carry a bottle of whiskey for snake bite. And two snakes. -Nefarious Wheel
    3. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The one thing that got me about Supersize Me was the fact that he drank the large/supersize cokes. Don't drink the soda, and your sugar consumption will drop by 90% or so, unless there's ridiculous amounts of sugar in the hamburgers.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    4. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by StarvingSE · · Score: 1

      There are ridiculous amounts of sugar in more than just the soda. He said every product contain sugar except for the hash browns and one other item (can't remember off the top of my head).

      He drank the supersize soda because hte normal McD eating individual would do the same thing. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the US who drink as much soda in a day as he did.

      --
      I got nothin'
    5. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you're correct about the sodas. I quit drinking them for the most part 5 years ago, and noticed I felt better within days. I now go months without a single soda, certain situations sometimes leave a soda as the only palatable alternative.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    6. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      About a year ago, several people died of food poisoning here after eating at one of your quaint "mom and pop" restaurants.

      It wasn't supported by billions in advertising. It also didn't have a huge professional infrastructure on top of it to properly train its cooks or oversee them and make sure they were following proper cooking and health procedures.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "several people died of food poisoning here after eating at one of your quaint "mom and pop" restaurants....It wasn't supported by billions in advertising."

      I would think that McDonalds has just as many cases per year of food poisoning of that of any small mom and pop, the difference is they have a million dollar legal team to deal with any of these issues plus the marketing that makes people think they can trust the food they buy at MCDs.

    8. Re:You prefer McDonald's? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CurbyKirby, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. YOu can't tell me you've never eaten at a local no name resteraunt that served food that tasted like ass and cost twice as much as mcdonalds? Give me a break. Just because its local and no name doesn't mean its going to be good.

  11. I don't! by wandazulu · · Score: 1

    There isn't a single game that has done for me what the original did. We Love Katamari was ho hum after the original (which I still play). UT2K3 was nowhere near as much fun as the original Unreal Tournament. Project Gotham Racing 2 was "eh" after the original, and I don't have a 360 so I haven't had the pleasure of PGR3. And who thought San Andreas was so much better than Vice City, or even the "original" GTA3.

    Sure maybe the control schemes are the same but the fact is that nothing grabs you like an original concept that works, so much so that a sequel is really just a warmed-over rehash of the same material to squeeze every last drop of $$$ from the player.

    Meanwhile, real "sequels" get short shrift: I got through both Shenmue and Shenmue 2 they leave you wanting more, but at this point more will never come.

    1. Re:I don't! by the_humeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You seem to have "back in my day..." syndrome. I disagree with all of your points. We Love Katamari was what the original Katamari should have been. I liked UT2K3 better than the original: better graphics with the same fast-paced FPS-styel gaming. GTA: San Andreas was/is so much better than the original GTA: more and varied vehicles, much larger game scope, much better storyline, etc. Certainly there are bad sequals, but none of the ones you've mentioned are them.

    2. Re:I don't! by DocBoss · · Score: 1

      Baldur's gate was crap, Baldur's Gate 2 was a masterpiece.

      --
      "They said we drink horse urine and sleep with our own kin. You say it's comedy, but how can someone laugh at that?"
    3. Re:I don't! by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      I'd have to say that Pikmin 2 was an improvement over the original.

    4. Re:I don't! by Ryan+Monster · · Score: 1

      Warcraft 1, Warcraft II, Warcraft III. Each improved upon the last and made the former seem limited and small in comparison.

      --
      Change your name to Homer Junior! Your friends can call you Hoju
    5. Re:I don't! by The+PS3+Will+Fail · · Score: 1
      "And who thought San Andreas was so much better than Vice City, or even the "original" GTA3."
      I thought San Andreas improved on GTA3 by leaps and bounds. The improvement from GTA3 to Vice City was not as evident but still noticable. Furthermore, the jump from GTA2 to GTA3 was monumental. I noticed that you didn't even mention that, which is quite telling about your argument.

      In making a case that sequels rarely improve on the originals, you ignore the case of GTA2 -> GTA3 because it was too dramatic a change/improvement, right?

    6. Re:I don't! by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      Yeah, 2k3 sucked, but UT2k4 was better than either of the previous ones. More levels, return of the sniper rifle, a pile of new game modes, less gritty looking characters returning the original feel, clones of all your favourite UT99 levels, return of the much lamented Assult (this time with more balanced levels) and vehicles if you feel like playing them. I hated 2k3 but wouldn't dream of returning to UT after 2k4, I just hope that 2k7 is as good.

      As for San Andreas, you havn't played it much have you? One's you get past all of the "yo, brotherz gotta represent da hood, yo down fo it niggaz" bullshit that the game starts with, it is a far superior game. The huge world gives a variety of environments to drive in like urban, highway, forest and desert each with their own challanges. The sheer number of missions is insane, and there is always something more to do, like getting gold in every school, doing the countless races, finding the obscene amount of hidden things, doing the train/vehicle missions, stealing all the cars for export, courting all the ladies etc. I conjecture that you havn't played it enough to realise quite how much of a leap it is beyond 3 and VC.

      Games are getting more and more fun in leaps and bounds, but fogies like you are just getting more cynical faster.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    7. Re:I don't! by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      (I'll bet you ten bucks you're a Halo fanboy taht crWhile you're making what in theory is a good point, I think you've made some really retarded game choices to make it with. EA sports series would have been a much better, and much more obvious, example of what you're trying to get at. The same game with with a slightly altered title and a few tiny extras. It's a problem for sure but at the end of the day it's only stupid people that get suckered in to purchasing the new 'update' for the full price.

      But with the games you mention, I think the problem tends to be adding more when it's not needed. Sport games are harder to create new versions of each year because obviously the rules and game mechanics don't change wholesale from season to season, but for 'real' video games the problem can sometimes be the opposite, and I think the games you've chosen made that point much better than what you had hoped to use them for.

      Sometimes the issue with sequels is that they aren't just more of the same.

      You've obviously played on a Dreamcast (Shenmue) yet you don't know that Metropolis Street Racer came before Project Gotham Racing. Although, they are both actually very similar games to be honest. And were both quite successful. PGR2, on the other hand, couldn't continue the trend without releasing essentially the same game, which with new tracks, a wider range of performance cars, and some different well designed racing challenges, might have been a really top class title. But they decided to seperate the game into stages which involved different classes of vehicle. Oops. Now you have people that loved racing sports cars around in predominantly race based settings that now have to have entire sections where they race horrible American muscle cars (which really need to be excluded by law from all racing games and only allowed to be present if those types of cars are the sole basis of the game), and, to much shock and awe, SU-fucking-VEEs. I mean, really? Who thought this would be a good idea. The game would have improved greatly if they had have ditch those two classes and all else before the Japanese car section (I forget the name). They obviously realised this and made PGR3 purely performance car based, but now the 'style' sections seem to be more prevalent than the pure racing. This may be a side effect of the fact that the game now has global real time leaderboards, but if you only have a friend of two max that you are comparing scores with and don't care for comparing your cone dodging abilities against xxxLubeTubexxx out of Europe than you're going to find yourself bored stiff and patiently hoping that the next set of challenges you unlock has some more, you know, actual races. For PGR4 I'm pointlessly hoping that they just redo MSR with Xbox360 graphics.

      Next. GTA3 was obviously a huge step over GTA2, but the 'faction' system in GTA2 was much more transparent and very one sided in GTA3 (i.e. you only ever piss factions off more, with no chance of redemption) but the transition into a 3D world was more than fans could have ever hoped for. Well, except for motorcycles and flying vehicles, which started to be introduced in Vice City. The game mechanics/world is such that people enjoy playing the game itself and were pretty happy with just a very simliar game but with new music, new areas (even if they were flat as a chessboard and laid out similiarly) and more missions to complete. But then San Andreas, seeing that it had reached a relative dead end, decided they needed to force in stuff that really wasn't required. A San Andreas without stupid gang zones that can be controlled, moronic girlfriend missions that are quite possibly the most pointless I've ever seen in a game, and the whole food/fat/exercise garbage that feel exactly like the tacked on RPG elements that they are just got in the way of what was just a really good base game. More of the same in San Andreas' awesome maps of cityscapes giving way to rolling countrysides to smaller townships and back again woul

    8. Re:I don't! by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Damnit someone talked to me when I was writing that comment right at the start and when I came back I forgot to finish it before posting. I was going to say that I'll be that, regardless of all your going on about games that you claim hardly changed you probably love Halo and thought that Halo 2 was totally innovative and the best thing since sliced bread. Or something. But yeah, I fucked that up, eh.

      Sometimes a leopard can change it's spots, but it's still worth two in the bush

    9. Re:I don't! by Big+Sean+O · · Score: 1

      >>And who thought San Andreas was so much better than Vice City, or even the "original" GTA3.

      I thought San Andreas was much better than Vice City and GTA3. But I think that's the exception that proves the rule... ;-D

      Most 'sequels' are 'spiffier-looking' rehashes (Tony Hawk anyone?), if you dig the gameplay on the original, you'll likely pay for the spiffiness of the sequel.

      There are a lot of games that do this that aren't sequels. All those tactics games (Disgaea, La Pucelle, Phantom Brave, etc) are essentially sequels of Final Fantasy Tactics. So are Shadow of the Colossus is a 'sorta sequel' to Ico. They cash in on the type of gameplay people enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.

      In fact, it's sometimes a good thing to go for the sequel because you trust the production team involved. Even though they look very similar, I'd rather buy "Dark Cloud 2" before I buy "Steambot Chronicles" (trust me, I know this from sad experience).

      --
      My father is a blogger.
    10. Re:I don't! by ingvar · · Score: 1

      Well, now... There's been a few "game series" I have bought, having played the first game. Let's see... Jak & Daxter Liked the first a lot. Liked the second, but found the car-mission things annoying. Really liked the third. Second game is the worst. Ratchett & Clank Liked the first. Liked the second more. Liked the third one a lot. Only "gripe" I have with the third is that it feels comparatively "small", even though the rest of the game is good fun. Ape Escape Tried a demo on the PS1. Liked it, bought it. Liekd the full game even better. Bought Ape Escape 2, was disappointed. May try AE3, after having tried a demo (or in-store playing). Grand Theft Auto Saw friends play GTA on the PC, liked the idea. Saw GTA2 for the PS1, bought it. Liked the game, a lot (though I don't think I ever managed to make it to the third map). Tried GTA3 ata friend's place, so I bought a PS2 so I could play it at home. Liked GTA:VC (it added the motorcycles and choppers), though there seem to be a few "stop missions" that are just insanely hard to get past. Liked GTA:SA, thuogh the girlfriend mechanic was, ahem, a bit annoying (including the fact that it plays a part in a side storyline that I would've liked to complete, but that croupier bitch is...). The food/exercise mechanic is, well, so-so. The driving schools are brilliant (at least to my mind) and the game just feels huge. GTA:LCS is, well, a mix and match. Very familiar territory, slightly updated engine, compared with GTA3, thuogh I wouldn't've minded finding a chopper or a plane. F-Zero First I played was F-Zero 64, really liekd the game. Bought the GBA version, liked that too. Bought F-Zero GX, not that impressed. Sure, it's graphically slick, but it has this annoying "Story" mode and (as far as I can tell) no elminitation mode(s).

    11. Re:I don't! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd have to disagree with Ut2k3. They took all the good weapons out (lightning gun isntead of sniper rifle?) and weakened the exisiting weapons to the point they sucked. Ut2k4 on the other hand fixed most of the issues, and was a much better game overall.

      I currently have 2k4 and the original installed. I refuse to touch 2k3.

    12. Re:I don't! by gknoy · · Score: 1
      I liked UT2K3 better than the original: better graphics with the same fast-paced FPS-styel gaming


      It's interesting that you say this. I feel the exact opposite. I /loved/ the original Unreal Tournament. When I bought UT2004, or '03, or something, I just couldn't get into it.

      Part of it was that my favourite skin was unplayable, now that he was the Bad Guy. But mainly it was that the pace of the game felt different. I had a harder time differentiating between weapons and their tactics of use, I really missed the pistols, and in general the graphics were TOO overwhelming. I feel like an old guy on his porch yelling at kids, but it's how I feel.

      I like the original UT because it has less glowing balls of death, fiery bolts of whoopah, and generally lit, shiny, glowing, plasma-ish everything. The enemies also seemed to bunny-hop more in the later UTs, but that be just me. The graphics, though, really seemed to distract from the gameplay. I can't SEE where I'm shooting, because everything was super-huge, and shot giant balls of gire. =) I just miss my chaingun, shock rifle, and pistols. =D (that, and the rocket launcher mechanics in UT were more to my liking.)

      I must be in a minority, though.
    13. Re:I don't! by HishamMuhammad · · Score: 1

      You must be too young to have played Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 3. Talk about an amazing sequel. :)

  12. Doesn't the gaming company prefer this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think the gamers prefer this, the gaming companies do since development is a lot easier and costs a bundle less. Ofcourse, usually, they do charge you with the full price for the sequel.. I'd rather see updates and enhancements to a game than a whole new sequel. I can still hear my girlfriend whine about how the changed the controls (or whatever) between Tombraider releases, taking them a first update before it was fixed.

  13. Because we want more of the same by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ever read a good book, then get to the end and wish you had more to read? If it's a series, you'll probably go pick up the next book in the series so you can get back to that same feeling of elation that the previous book brought you. If the book isn't a series, then you might look for more books by the same author in hopes that his other titles will be just as good.

    It's the same with video games. If a particular game brings you enjoyment, then you'll want more when you're done with the current one. A sequel provides a seemingly "safe" method of obtaining that enjoyment. Simply picking up a different title removes you from your comfort zone and exposes you to risk. Ergo, we try to minimize the number of new franchises we "get into". /End amatuer physcology

    1. Re:Because we want more of the same by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      s/physcology/psychology/g

    2. Re:Because we want more of the same by Eideewt · · Score: 1

      Yup. I don't see why this is mysterious. Maybe I've played through (Thief | Commander Keen | Descent) so many times that I just can't stomach those same levels again for a while, but really wish I could keep playing. Sequels to the rescue!

  14. Of course we like sequels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We like sequels to software, everyone loves a new version unlike movies, a game can experiance a large amount of improvement or at the very least a continuation of gameplay that the user loved before.

  15. I have a better question by nakedsushi · · Score: 2

    Why can't game developers finish the story the first time around?

    1. Re:I have a better question by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      And if they did that you'd ask "Why can't the games have a bigger story?"

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    2. Re:I have a better question by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      And if you asked that they'd say "Why not just make a never-ending story?"

      Oh wait...

    3. Re:I have a better question by splutty · · Score: 1

      Because they wouldn't be able to sell any sequels.

      Uhm...

      --
      Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
  16. Because it had a chance to be refined by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

    Whatever was wrong with the original, that got rushed through production, is probably sorted out by the time the sequel comes out.

    See: Oddworld's save system.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

    1. Re:Because it had a chance to be refined by tygerstripes · · Score: 1
      Oddworld's a bit of an anomaly though. Abe's Oddyssey was fun, atmospheric and original (smacking of Prince of Persia though it did), Abe's Exoddus was more of the same, with some coolness on top, so it supported the "we love sequels" theory.

      Then came the bloody third game with the psychic cripple toad, and they totally ditched the slick-platform style for some half-arsed semi-fps-puzzler. I couldn't bring myself to play more than a couple of hours before I wept bitterly into my shreddies.

      I believe there's a fourth, but I can't summon the gumption to look into it after such a monumental disappointment.

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    2. Re:Because it had a chance to be refined by aygh · · Score: 1

      Refinement is an important point that's often overlooked. There are way many more unknowns in the production of the original title that had to be sorted out and that lets the team focus more on what (they think) is important in the second instance. That doesn't mean sequels are bound to be better, but production is a lot easier, even with raised expectations and all.

      Sequels can propel all kinds of the game's aspects to new heights - the obvious example being GTA3. It wouldn't have been what it was if it hadn't been a sequel. Steal the good stuff from wherever you can, even if it's from yourself.

      A healthy mix between new and proven IPs is what's needed, sequels play an important role in the development of the genre.

    3. Re:Because it had a chance to be refined by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Abe's Exoddus was more of the same, with some coolness on top, so it supported the "we love sequels" theory.

      Then came the bloody third [...] and they totally ditched the slick-platform style


      I think this kinda proves my point. The second game was the same gameplay, but without the bad elements of the first.
      The third only kept the brand, the name and general look, and dropped all the gameplay!
      By that time, it's not a sequel, it's a franchise.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  17. PGR & GTA by Intellectual+Elitist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > Project Gotham Racing 2 was "eh" after the original

    That's funny -- I thought PGR1 was "eh" after the actual original, Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast.

    > And who thought San Andreas was so much better than Vice City, or even the "original" GTA3.

    I certainly did, and I've been playing the GTA games since the demo of GTA1 first came out.

    I think your PGR flub betrays what's actually going on here -- people are usually fondest of whichever game in a series they're exposed to first, unless a sequel really hits the ball out of the park. It's an emotional response, not a rational one. And you have to realize that each sequel is going to be someone's first exposure to a series, so the whole argument is kind of a non-starter.

  18. Sequels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some sequels are great. Give me any one of Sierra's 'Quest' games and I'll be happy because I'm getting a great product and characters that I like. However, excessive sequels are annoying. I really don't need to play 'generic platformer 34: the princess is kidnapped again'.

    1. Re:Sequels by DeeDob · · Score: 1

      Just a note. Quake and Quake 2 are not sequels but in name only.

      The developpers have said that they wanted Quake 2 to be a different name than "Quake" but had trouble finding one at the last minute before a public game show (E3? can't remember which one). All the titles they wanted to use were already taken or could cause problems in court after they reserched them. At the last minute they stapled "Quake 2" on it just so it could have a title.

      The stories are completely different.
      Quake 3 is also an off-series.
      So the Quake "series" is really only two games long: Quake 2 and Quake 4.

      Also, i kind of failed to see your point. You say you "hate" sequels, yet you name a whole bunch of series with sequels and more than half of them you list the sequels as "good" or "excellent".

  19. Because people like known quantities by LordZardoz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People generally do not want original content in and of its self. Original content is good from time to time, but when people sit down for a few hours of hard core gaming, they dont necessarily want original content. They want good content.

    You dont need to make original games, just good ones, and unlike movies, games tend to improve from one sequel to the next.

    People will go for a sequel because if the original game was good, the sequel is usually at least as good, or close enough to it. Unlike movie sequels, games have more assets with which to appeal to their audience. Solid and engaging gameplay is more important than story content. The storyline for a sequel may not be as strong as the original, but most of the time the gameplay is intact. And if the gameplay is intact, it can deliver the same things that the first game did, but do so in new levels. Gameplay in sequels generally gets improved from one iteration to the next as well, since they have all the user input from the first game to fall back on. They can reduce or remove elements of the originals that did not appeal, and improve and build upon elements that did work.

    Now, not all videogame sequels are as good as their predecessors, but if the orignal was a 9 out of 10 game, the sequel is probably no worse than 7 out of 10 at the worst.

    END COMMUNICATION

  20. Stories and Dates by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

    I think it's similar to some advice I heard growing up about dating.

    It's always better to leave while their wanting more then give them more and make them wish you would leave. :)

  21. Safe for publishers as well by roesti · · Score: 1

    I can't believe I haven't seen a single reply here talking about publishers.

    Publishers love sequels far more than your average gamer, because they're a safe investment. This is particularly telling nowadays, with the cost of game development going through the roof. I read a few years ago that one of the Final Fantasy games would need to sell nearly two million copies just to turn a profit; very few games have that kind of brand recognition.

    In fact, not many developers have that kind of brand recognition, either. Developers often don't understand why publishers won't take a chance, just as publishers don't want to foot the bill for something that they can't guarantee will be successful. If you can't use an existing game engine, or existing characters, or existing storyboards, that bill just gets bigger, and so does the risk. Even Nintendo at E3 2006 were talking about some of their new Wii and DS titles as "franchises", surely in preparation for long series of follow-ups to each.

    Hopefully, we will soon see a trend towards cheaper game development coming into the mainstream. I've already seen the light with Nintendo treating the DS as a first-class platform, and this will only improve as services such as Wii Virtual Console and Xbox Live Arcade start racking up good libraries of killer apps. We might even see all those Flash game developers join in, tapping into an established audience and a proven business model that isn't entirely sustained by advertising. Not everything can be Geometry Wars, of course, but with the barrier to entry considerably lowered, we might see a bit more freshness in the games industry.

    1. Re:Safe for publishers as well by nologin · · Score: 1

      In general, publishers do like their sequels for the reasons stated above. Since they are dealing with a relatively known quantity of sales they can push by rehashing an idea or extending it somehow, it's like a guaranteed return on their investment.

      But it's not just that. We "seem" to prefer sequels becauses these sequels are continually pushed in our faces by their marketing/advertising firms and all the spin and hype that the publishers (and developers to some extent) build up leading to their next release. When the gaming industry spends so much to push their sequels, the new and innovative games are but mutes in a convention hall full of sequels shouting simultaneously at the top of their lungs to get your attention. It's no wonder that the innovative games are generally unheard of until release and generally rely on less traditional ways of getting their own popularity.

      So, it's a very simple equation to the publishers...

      Previously successful title + upcoming sequel + aggressive marketing = huge profit.

      Innovative title + low key marketing (to reduce possible losses on a flop) = relative unknown title + possible gaming gem.

      You only seem to enjoy game sequels because they outnumber the fresh innovative ones by a factor of 10:1.

  22. Market influence by joystickgenie · · Score: 1

    I don't think it is quite as simple as it may seem with people being comfortable with the familiar idea.

    Yes the consumer may feel more inclined to by sequels but that is really only true for sequels of good games. A Bad game will cause the sequels to sell worse regardless of the quality of the sequel. This works in the reverse as well. When you see a sequel to a good game there is the general idea that the sequel will be around the same quality of its predecessor. How many people bought Tomorrow Never Dies just because the loved GoldenEye 007. So I don't think it is the sequel that people love so much as trying to recapture the original that causes a lot of purchases

    With that in mind you have to look at marketing a bit as well. Original IP is considered a risk by publishers and marketing and because of this, in general sequels get way more marketing dollars spent on it then originals ever would. There could be an amazing new game on the market but people never hear about it because the marketing for it was to low budget. I know this has happened to me at least, where by the time I heard of a great game the production of it has already been stopped (I'm thinking gitaroo man).

    In my opinion the reason sequels sell so well is because people actually know about them before they are on the shelves.

    1. Re:Market influence by liak12345 · · Score: 1

      No no no.

      You buy Perfect Dark because you loved Goldeneye.

  23. Dupe? Not this time! by Rixel · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's odd.....I think this is one of those rare submissions that would be a lot funnier if it WAS duped.

    --
    Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
  24. A method that works, unlike with Movies by cyanics · · Score: 1

    It is a simple equation; we get ourselves into the role. A sequel represents a way in which we are reincarnated is it were. I am a quake god again. I am an awp whore again. I am a wizard-warlock-gremlin again.

    When we play games, we are the persona or the avatar, we develop skills based around our experience. Unlike a movie, if we don't like the game, we aren't likely to finish playing it. When we love a game, we play it over and over and over, and experience it in different roles. That is something that movies can't replicate. Imagine, the Star Wars trilogy (Han shot first) seen THROUGH the eyes of Luke. Then imagine seeing it again THROUGH the eyes of Han. Same story, but completely different angles. We are our avatar for the short while that we play.

    I loved Half-Life. Still do love HL. When the mods started to roll in, I was in love with them too. You are Gordan. You are a soilder trying to stop Gordan. You are a security guard, just trying to get out alive.

    HL2 comes along. We are taken back to what we were. 3-people. New story, but an infinate way to experience it. I don't have to move along a linear track like I would in a movie. I can move side to side, I can cheat if I want. It doesn't matter, to the game. I am god.

    The new episodial game sequences are going to completely revolutionize the gaming genre. Planning so that a story is incomplete, and given feedback along the path of development. So many twists, and so many opportunities.

    Image. Episode 2: Omega Watch. Episode 2: Head Crab.

    2c. And damn glad I still play counter-strike. /life long fan now. Quickly approaching 10 years, actually (beta .4)

  25. Easy by RealmRPGer · · Score: 1

    It's because we didn't get enough the first time around, obviously. This is the reason people get pissed off when a sequel drastically changes things. They were looking for that same experience, but wanted it to "happen all over again."

  26. Consistancy? by BobPaul · · Score: 1

    and I know what I'm getting. It's a consistent product.

    Wow... I need to find out where this McDonald's you go to is. It sounds like Redlobster compared to the McDonald's I'm stuck with!

    1. Re:Consistancy? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      McDonald's is a lot worsse than it used to be. I remember 10 years ago things used to be a lot better. I think this is why McDonald's profits have been taking a dive lately. I'm more talking of the McDonald's of yesteryear, which brought them to world domination of fast food, not the McDonald's of today.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:Consistancy? by orasio · · Score: 1

      Here in Uruguay, after lots of years ( more than ten, at least ) McDonalds has a consistent quality.
      Of course, it's not the best fast food available, but its the most widespread foreign franchise, and you get a reasonable meal for a reasonable total price (3 - 4 dollars).

      It's not all that great, but compared to the fast food restaurants (MD and others) I saw in Miami, Fort Lauderlale(?), and Orlando when on vacation, I can see it's much cleaner here, the food tastes much better, and the people are nicer.

      Of course, it loses big time in the quality department to most local restaurants in their league, but they have the best locations, lots of advertising (esp. for kids to drag their families in), and end up being actually cheaper.

  27. Sometimes, just sometimes... by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 1

    the sequels are better than the original.

    Two off the top of my head:

    Descent 1 and 2, IMO, the improvements were fantastic despite some wierd bugs that
    were patched quickly. The weapons, the AI, the game play were all improved.
    D3 rolled around and the Grfx were fantastic, and the play was excellent still.

    Max Payne 1 and 2: Good story, good action and neat gimmics and 2 made it even more
    thrilling. Improved bullet-time, fantastic play and effects of two made me wish to
    play the first under the MP2 engine.

    Not many games I can think of that made me say that, besides Carmageddon 1 or 2 (the 3rd one never happened, twas just a horrible nitemare...so I tell myself).

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
    1. Re:Sometimes, just sometimes... by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

      Half Life. You know it's true. (Episode One aside - I've yet to play them)

      --
      Meta will eat itself
  28. D3... by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    "Descent 1 and 2, IMO, the improvements were fantastic despite some wierd bugs that
    were patched quickly. The weapons, the AI, the game play were all improved.
    D3 rolled around and the Grfx were fantastic, and the play was excellent still."

    And this is where we'll have to part ways! Descent 3 bombed financially, whereas D1 and D2 did not. So to say D3 was better then Descent 2 is obviously at least partly incorrect. In fact I loved descent 2 to death, I played the think religiously over Kali even when friends had moved onto quake, the frenzied multiplayer fights in those small ugly cubish levels were fun as hell and always got your blood pumping... all I can say is it wasn't the same with D3, being that D3 was made from scratch with an entirely new engine.

    Music... D1 + D2 had better music then descent 3... even D1's midi music (the compositions) were better then what was found in D3, in D3 I frequently wanted to shut off the "noise" where the tracks in D2 totally suited blowing stuff (and friends) up.

    Gameplay... the fact is Descent being a 3D space combat game has a certain "feel" and sense of motion that the ships and D1 and D2 had that was lost in Descent 3, not to mention the introduction of 2 other ships with different performance characteristics.

    Next weapons didn't feel right if you've had played the prior 2 descent games. i.e. Plasma bullets were much smaller then the original, also many sound effects were subdued making identifying and hearing weapons fire at a distance more difficult, D3 was an especially quiet game in terms of hearing weapons fire, etc in larger levels.

    Descent 2's multiplayer was greater then D3's, D3 had shinier graphics but it upset the multiplayer magic of Descent 2.

    The way missiles worked in D3 and the levels being rather large, the ships all controlling differently, etc, the way some weapons characteristics were modified and the lack of carry over of Favorite weapons from other games... really killed the descent 3 experience.

  29. FF7 fanaticism still irks me by jchenx · · Score: 1
    I think your PGR flub betrays what's actually going on here -- people are usually fondest of whichever game in a series they're exposed to first, unless a sequel really hits the ball out of the park. It's an emotional response, not a rational one.

    I think a great example of this is with the ever popular Final Fantasy VII game. It was the first "FF" game for many folks, thanks to a huge advertising campaign by Square at the time. So, for all future FF games, FF7 has always been "the one" for these fanatics.

    As someone who's played the FF games from the beginning, I never understood what the craze was about. FF7 is actually the only FF game I never played (I don't count the MMO FFXI), since it took a long time for me to jump to the PS1. And when I did have a chance to try it, I never got close to completing it, as there were far better RPGs around at the time. For me? The earlier FF games had a lot of charm, so for me, those are the ones I enjoyed the most. Very much an emotional response though.
    --
    -- jchenx
    1. Re:FF7 fanaticism still irks me by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      I think it was something different, actually... FF7 was the first departure from the old FF structure. The 3d aspect helped a lot, but the battle system and Materia and many other factors made it quite a bit different from FF1-6. The whole game felt different.

      FF8 gets so much flack because all those tons of people that loved FF7 didn't want to see it change... And 8 was different yet. And 9 was more old-school, but with modern twists, so it was 'hated'. (I loved it.) FF10 continued the evolution from 8 with more changes yet, and a 'less than manly' story.

      So I think it wasn't so much that it was their first FF game, as that it was the first FF game that they were capable of liking.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:FF7 fanaticism still irks me by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Good call on that one. I started off on the original FF. And have played all of them but the MMO. The only games I didn't like were 8 and 10, I never got into 2. I think the 3D in 7 had a lot to do with why people liked it. But it also had an epic story. My favorite is 6. Followed by 4 and then 7. Never played PGR, but I like every installment of Gran Turismo better than the last. Though 5 looks like it will suck if they are going to nickle-and-dime me for tracks and cars. That and I won't buy a PS3 for at least two years (when all the bugs are worked out and it's less than 300 bucks).

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
  30. OOH I KNOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe because developers today for some reason can't get it right the first time. The best we can hope for anymore is that most of the critical glitches are gone by version 1.2 and maybe another 'hotfix' after that so admins can actually detect online cheaters.

    No really, I love buying games that are broken out of the box. Really.

    - Collects games that don't need sequels

  31. It's the Content, Stupid! by jchenx · · Score: 1

    Why do we like sequels and franchises so much? It's the content, stupid!

    Sometimes its because we really enjoy the story and characters, and want to see it continue (see the Halo, Metal Gear Solid games, among many others). Often it's because we really like that particular brand of gameplay, whether it be sports (see Madden) or a brawler (see Smash Bros), or kart racing (see Mario Kart). And often its because we really like the way a particular developer makes a game (see Final Fantasy or Grand Theft Auto, by Square-Enix and Rockstar respectively).

    --
    -- jchenx
  32. Too much of a good thing... by Animaether · · Score: 1

    There -are- ways to go over the top with this, though...

    Take for example Star Trek, which I think is probably a very good example.

    I loved the shows - all of them, to varying degrees, but loved them. I watched TNG because I watched the originals, DS9 because I watched TNG, and voyager because I watched TNG as well (Darn them for running two series at about the same time).

    I also watched Enterprise, but quite frankly that was a 'prequel' that just ruined a bunch of it.

    Now shock & horror... there are fanfics. And there are official Star Trek books. There's whole storylines after the Voyager TV series' ending. And quite frankly, I cannot possibly get into all of them. It's just *too much*. I'm sure there are those superdevoted fans out there who will read / watch every single work on star trek in existence, but for me I just can't stand it anymore. To me things should come to an end eventually - happily ever after, or with the Earth scorched, I don't care - but drop it and create something at least remotely new so that I don't feel like I'm still stuck in the same story long after the main story had supposedly ended.

    so yes, I'll play the Half Life episodes, but please let there be an end to it within the next 10 years, otherwise what happens is the same thing that happens to TV series... they get old, get canceled, and get the most f'ed up endings in TV. ( Like I can only imagine is what will happen with 'Lost'. ) I, for one, hope all game writers who write games with a 'story' have the ending of that story already in their mind, and are only working towards that ending in their sequels, without dragging things on and on. /incoherent rant.. not sure how to word what I'm feeling, but I guess a lot of you will know what I'm talking about.

  33. their-they're (NT) by Ahnteis · · Score: 1

    typo! (Well, more of a brain-fart really)

  34. Trying new things is for suckers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consistency is the spice of life.

  35. Games that suck don't get sequels by billstewart · · Score: 1
    (Ok, *usually* don't get sequels :-)


    Sometimes a game that does ok has enough depth and playability to make a sequel out of it,
    and the authors can take the bits that worked and improve them, fix the stuff that didn't,
    and add enough new material to make it worth playing (even if that's only new dungeons
    to wander around in and different monsters to shoot.) Doesn't always work, but if there wasn't enough playability to make a sequel and the game tanked in the market, usually the authors will
    go out of business if they're small or write a newer game if they're better-funded.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  36. Do we like sequel games more? by iainl · · Score: 1

    Or do we just get more excited about them?

    We're still at a point where there are very few developers in the business where plenty of people will run out and get the latest game from them due to the name. Even the really big ones like Miyamoto didn't see first week sales for a new 'original' title like Pikmin when you look at what the Nth Mario or Zelda achieves.

    So unless a game looks REALLY pretty, or someone has an absolutely killer license (which is hardly a sign of originality either), to get the marketing ball rolling it's a lot easier to have a known big title name. Microsoft didn't need to tell anyone other than the words "Halo 3" at E3 to get the masses drooling, and despite there being plenty of other games looking really nice too, all we hear about the PS3 are MGS4 and FF13.

    --
    "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    1. Re:Do we like sequel games more? by l0cust · · Score: 1

      I think its a mixture of both. We do get more easily excited about names we are familiar with than the prospect of experimenting with something we know nothing about. But then there is the aspect of 'belonging' which comes into play too. We will be biased towards a particular sequel if the orginal game really clicked for us - meaning we are more inclined to forgive its minor weaknesses and screw-ups than say a new game with similar problems for which we usually tear it down to shreds. Thus the factor of actually 'liking' the sequel gets a bit blurred.

      Take for example the mario or star wars series. Not saying the sequels were crap or anything but a lot of them sold out because the fans were ready to forgive and overlook things which would have annoyed them to hell in any other game. Or simply they lowered their repetition/boredome/crap filters down a bit because those sequels gave them a sense of belonging and it was worth more to try to enjoy that path down the memory lane than to try to nitpick on things usually reserved for other games.

      Someone up in the discussion made a beautiful analogy regarding games' sequels with books' sequels/more books by same author. I think it hits pretty close to the mark. You are more likely to feel you 'can' enjoy sequels of books you loved or more works by the same author because its easier to 'get' what the author is trying to say after you have loved one of the earlier books. Not saying its always the case but,more often than not, it is true. [One notably excepttion for me was the 'Rama' series by Arthur C. Clarke. I loved the first one, kind of enjoyed the second one but somehow lost interest midway through the last one. Maybe it was the fact that the sequels tried to leave nothing to the imagination which turned me off, or maybe it was the sort of religious undertones which seemed to be creeping into a perfectly original story.]

      --
      Politicians and Pedophiles: Two groups of exploitive bastards who are most dangerous when they're thinking of children.
  37. We don't like sequels... by grumbel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The reason that sequels sell is simple, people already know them, so its easy to market them. Saying to the customer "more of the same" gives him a idea of what the sequel will offer. With a new game on the other side the marketing department has to start from zero, explain the world, the gameplay, the genre and what not to the consumer, a heck a lot more work then just saying "more of the same". This can also be seen by non-sequels, for examples Assassin's Creed, while its an original game, every interview basically starts with "From the creators of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time...", which is really not so different from saying "more of the same", they simply build up on the fame of the past, with true sequels that is of course even easier.

    In the end I don't think that consumers want sequels, it simply happens that marketing makes it easier to buy sequels then original games. There are of course a few exceptions, when the story isn't done and there is still something to be told or when the original game simply was to short to take advantange of the full potential of the game mechanics or when the technology has advanced so much that a reinterpretation of the original game is worth the try (PrinceOfPersia, Mario, etc.). For most part I would however say that non-sequels are prefered, however what I want and what I buy don't have to be the same things in the end, thanks to marketing and a bunch of other influences.

  38. It's no different from software upgrades by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Aside from story-related stuff, a game sequel would be better described simply as a software upgrade. Generally speaking, most sequels do exactly the same thing other software upgrades do:

      - correct bugs
      - improve the user interface
      - adds more options

    Actually, the line between console games and software has already started to blur. if you look at some of the games already out for the Xbox 360, you can perform minor upgrades of your own choosing with them, adding new characters, models, weapons and textures from a growing list of options available via Xbox Live. Future titles will eventually allow you to gradually add entirely new levels/worlds to explore, instead of making you wait a year for a simple repackaging of the same game engine with different data included on the disc.

    Of course, this could eventually backfire on the end user, where if you "buy" a game from a store, it's only the game engine with a couple token levels packaged in with it, requiring you to download the rest of the game from the internet in small chunks at a collectively higher price. There's talk that the next Gran Turismo title for the PS3 will actually do just that... requiring you to purchase each car or track separately.

    --


    8==8 Bones 8==8
  39. In the US... by Draconix · · Score: 1

    We don't have to worry about the "food" being food. :P

    --
    By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
  40. Re:Dupe? Not this time! by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

    Give it time... this is Slashdot, man!

    --
    Meta will eat itself
  41. I don't usually like sequels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and i don't understand when people do

  42. Sequels by ledow · · Score: 1

    Well, I would have to echo the thoughts of some of the other comments but not the article.

    I hate and detest sequals for all they are worth. Why can't people just leave a good game alone rather than trying to constantly cash in on the name? Rarely does a sequel come out better than the original unless the original was obviously lacking (i.e. pushed out before it was finished). Video game sequels may be slightly better than movie sequels (which, again, are on the whole quite terrible with only a few minor exceptions).

    To make a sequel for a videogame work, the only way is to keep the majority of the game exactly the same (as in controls, mechanics, etc.) and add "more", more levels, more secrets, more bonuses etc. But even if that's not done right, it can totally ruin a game. It has to be an "expansion pack" not a sequel for it to work properly.

    There are obviously exceptions to the rule, must as there are in the movie industry, but as in the movie industry you can find that people take things just that bit too far and ruin the impression of a whole series of games. (Not that in the below list, good means "good for it's time")

    GTA - good. GTA London - Good but short. GTA2 (Engine change, graphics, destroyed controls etc.) - Poor but with a few okay ideas. GTA3 (A different game entirely) worthy in it's own right but could easily have NOT been a sequel just by changing it's name.

    Age of Empires - good. Age of Empires 2 (same engine, same style, same feel, same everything but done so much better, with features that are genuinely useful and with new maps, races, missions etc.) - Excellent. Age of Mythology (Let's cash in on the "Age Of" Series)- crap. Age of Empires III (a return to the old style but with my pet hate of "updated to true 3D") - good.

    Carmageddon - good. Carmageddon 2 (an expansion pack with better graphics) - good. Carmageddon TDR2000 (another expansion pack, again with slightly better graphics and some physics/bonus tweaks) - good.

    Command and Conquer + it's expansion packs - good. Red Alert + it's expansion packs (basically the same as C&C but with different units etc.) - Good. Red Alert 2 - starting to go downhill. Command & Conquer: Generals - crap.

    Project IGI - good. Project IGI2 (Same gameplay, slightly better) - good.

    Quake - excellent. Quake 2 - not too bad. Quake 3 - Yuk but fun if you started off on it as a multiplayer deathmatch kind of thing. Quake 4 - nuff said.

    Counterstrike - excellent. Counterstrike Condition Zero - actually surpisingly good, despite a bad reputation. Counterstrike: Source - let's not go there.

    And it's obvious why this should be = those players who love a certain game expect a sequel to be more of the same, but better. They don't expect an entirely different style of game. Those sequels that are purely mission packs / graphics upgrades but still manage to capture that same atmosphere, same responsiveness to controls etc. are the ones that are popular. Those that change the game radically will put off a lot of the original players, although if the sequel is really THAT different, it may create a new genre of it's own and thus attract players back because it's a "new" type of game. For instance, GTA3 or Quake3. However that's rare and most sequels like that just aren't as good (Age of Mythology).

    If you're going to do a sequel, make it similar to the original but better (i.e. don't destroy the good pieces of the game that you originally had). If you can't make it similar, call it something else or make it clear that it is absolutely NOT a sequel in any way.

  43. It's all about the skin... by Cybrex · · Score: 1

    I think that we prefer sequels because it means that we finally get to see Kate Beckinsale naked.

    Okay, so maybe this logic only applies to one specific case.

    --
    Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
  44. More like the industry cheating. by RyoShin · · Score: 1

    I don't think it's so much that we, as gamers, have a 'love affair' with sequels, it's that the publishers do, and we usually accept it or benefit from it.

    Sequels are cheaper to make, as they require less story development and can reuse textures and code from the old games, assuming it's on the same console. Even if it's not the same console, it's still less work in the end, and thus is cheaper.

    So we wind up with GTA4, or a GTA clone, instead of some new type of game. Is GTA4 necessarily bad? Is the GTA clone? No, but rarely do sequels push boundries, becuase they try to stick to the original game.

  45. Minor nitpick by asit+ler · · Score: 1

    The author mentioned his incredulity that Final Fantasy is on XII. While this is *technically* true, I feel it necessary to point out that A: the very nature of Final Fantasy does not lend itself to sequels the way that games such as Halo, Half-Life, or Elder Scrolls, or even Fable do. Well, you can have "sequels" (FFVII: Dirge of Cerberus, FFX-2) but they really don't turn out very well (I've not played DoS, or FFVII even, but FFX2 sucked so hard it made Albuquerque windy for a couple days when I bought it). Final Fantasy "major-version" releases are usually independent games with NO ties to the previous version whatsoever.

    This has its upsides and its downsides. All the fanboys will immediately go buy the next Final Fantasy game pretty much without even renting it, just because it's Final Fantasy, which actually demotivates Square for the next game of the series. Not that I'm saying any of the FF games have sucked, other than FFX2. Just that this is the problem with most franchise style games, which is why Okami, Katamari Damacy, and LocoRoco are so awesome: New concept, *extremely trippy concept*, and they're BLOODY FUN TO PLAY! I've played demos of Okami and LocoRoco and the full version of Katamari (even though I'm not THAT good at it).

    In other news, the story of Fable: The Lost Chapters and Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (Game of the Year edition) is extremely good (emphasis on Fable) and capable of engrossing people who enjoy decent RPGs, or people who can't afford a bunch of games.

    And I *definitely* wouldn't be talking about myself in that last semi-paragraph. No, not at all. Never!

    --
    This is not the sig you're looking for.
  46. Prefer? No, force-fed. by Shrubber · · Score: 1

    This is absolutely correct. People don't prefer sequels in the least, it's simply all we're giving. Companies are afraid to produce brand new content so they march out tired retreads year after year, and consumers keep the cycle going by buying them. Of course they're buying them because they have no other choices besides not buying anything, so since they sell companies make more of the same, and it continues on.

  47. Holy Over-Intellectualization by heinousjay · · Score: 1

    I hate to be the mom bursting in the room when all this mental masturbation is going on, but maybe it's as simple as "hey, I had fun with the original."

    Now continue spooging up the internet.

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
  48. A common thread by Hahnsoo · · Score: 1

    One common thread that I'm reading is that while the sequel, by itself, isn't necessarily a good thing, it often represents a refinement of the ideas presented in the original game. For example, Max Payne gave us a successful third-person shooter (at the time, a rarity outside of certain adventure games and niche games that required melee combat) with the slow-motion "bullet time" along with a film noir story; Max Payne 2 refined the ideas presented in Max Payne 1, both in terms of gameplay and developing the story. A lot of times, it gives us a chance to say "What if?" with the original game, and take it to different levels of possibility. Look at the progression of both technology and story in Warcraft to Warcraft 2 to Warcraft 3. Likewise, Resident Evil made a big jump from RE3 to RE4.
     
    Then there are the sequels that are so radically different that they almost constitute a different game entirely. Diablo II, while still hack and slash, had such significantly different gameplay elements from the original that the similarities between the two are mostly thematic. The Civilization series has constantly reinvented itself... while still about world development and domination, the amount of detail and scope has changed with each iteration of the game.
     
    This isn't to say that all sequels are good (or bad, for that matter). I mean, do we really need a new Madden game every single year?

  49. Thank god for fan fiction then! by arthurh3535 · · Score: 1

    You know, this is probably the reason that fan fiction is such a large phenomina these days. You get to revisit your favorite characters, in a myriad of situations.

    What would have happened if Harry Potter had known he was a wizard earlier?

    What was the final fate of Belgarion?

    And, of course, you get to see unplausible "crossovers" that are terribly popular when they are sanctioned.

    Eveyone loved seeing some of the Star Wars characters/actors on the muppets all those years ago.

    --
    No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
  50. It's not just gaming by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    It's movies, too; both the people who make the movies and the people who see the movies like sequels because they know what to expect. Some of it is also complacency; We elect the incumbent back to the house or senate something like 95% of the time even though all of us complain about what our government is doing.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  51. Tonto says: by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    "What's this 'we' shit, white man?"

  52. I have two words for you: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Super Metroid.

    (The original was great, but Super Metroid may be the greatest 16-bit game ever.)

  53. We don't like sequels more... by Quaunaut · · Score: 1

    Publishers do. They see them as free ways to make easy money: And then milk that cash cow. I thought this was a known fact?

  54. Re:Could it be the feedback?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems to me that we prefer sequels because (the good ones at least) have been improved by our feedback on the original. It was ~designed~ to be better than the original because we told them what we thought would make it better.