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Airport To Tag Passengers With RFID

denebian devil writes "A new technology is to be trialled in Debrecen Airport in Hungary that will involve tagging all passengers with high-powered RFID tags. From the Register article: 'People will be told to wear radio tags round their necks when they get to the airport. The tag would notify a computer system of their identity and whereabouts. The system would then track their activities in the airport using a network of high definition cameras. "[The tags] have got a long range, of 10m to 20m," said Dr. Paul Brennan of University College London's antennas and radar group which developed the tags, "and the system has been designed so the tag can be located to within a meter, and it can locate thousands of tags in one area at a given time."' The system is being touted for 'Improving airport efficiency, security and passenger flow by enhanced passenger monitoring.' BBC is also reporting this story, and brings up such hurdles to the project as 'finding a way of ensuring the tags cannot be switched between passengers or removed without notification.' As for any mention of the 'hurdle' of people's rights, the article vaguely and briefly states that 'The issue of infringement of civil liberties will also be key,' but doesn't bother to go into any pesky details."

262 comments

  1. Dog collars. by teh+loon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the desciption, it sounds like the passengers will end up wearing dog collars. Anyone reminded of Battle Royale? It's one thing to be security conscious, but another thing to be paranoid.

    1. Re:Dog collars. by Rachel+Lucid · · Score: 3, Interesting
      With or without exploding goodness?


      ... shouldn't 'non-switchy-ness' be enforced via having to turn in 'your' tags at the flight gate? After all, what would be the point of enforcing non-switching anyway when you basically ensure that each person has to get one and turn one in, except to infringe on their rights?

      ... like we're not doing that to BEGIN with...

    2. Re:Dog collars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      or RFID pills. Open up!

    3. Re:Dog collars. by aplusjimages · · Score: 5, Funny

      FBI: "What's all the dots?"
      Airport Security: "Those are all the passangers and people in the airport."
      FBI: "Well how do we find the terrorist in that sea of dots?"
      Airport Security: "Well, they will be the . . . suspicious . . . dots."
      FBI: "Whats a suspicious dot look like?"
      Airport Security: "You'll have to talk to my supervisor. I just watch the dots."

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
    4. Re:Dog collars. by nEJC76 · · Score: 1

      Wow! My very own Bling-Bling!
      But Battle Royale? Nah! My first thought was Running Man http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093894/

    5. Re:Dog collars. by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dog collar? Oh, whew! I thought you said 'RFID suppository". I am SO relieved.

    6. Re:Dog collars. by wannabgeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you got modded funny, but you should be modded insightful. If a guy wants to go to some restricted area to do any mischief, he would not be wearing his dog collar. He would conveniently slip it onto someone else or make an accomplice carry two tags (one inside and one his own) while he slips into the secure area. I am not really sure what they are planning to accomplish by watching the dots.

      --
      I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
    7. Re:Dog collars. by kimvette · · Score: 2, Funny

      Aren't the good dots blue or green, and the bad dots red?

      Or am I thinking lightsabres?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    8. Re:Dog collars. by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      I suspect it's sort of like those 9/11/01 attacks. They can say (a la they switched off their transponders so it was difficult to find them with all those other aircraft) they switched their RFIDs and it was too difficult to find the terrorists among all those other dots.

      Seriously, though, I can sort of understand it because Hungarian women are quite attractive, but I sure don't want that crap in the ole USA (unless, of course, the overlords demand it....).

    9. Re:Dog collars. by mpe · · Score: 1

      If a guy wants to go to some restricted area to do any mischief, he would not be wearing his dog collar. He would conveniently slip it onto someone else or make an accomplice carry two tags (one inside and one his own) while he slips into the secure area. I am not really sure what they are planning to accomplish by watching the dots.

      The only way in which such a system could work would be if it is possible to accuratly track people as well as tags. Thus could identify an untagged person in the secure area, even if they are in close proximity to tagged people.

    10. Re:Dog collars. by menkhaura · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I've got only two words for this:

      Terrorists Win!

      --
      Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
      Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
    11. Re:Dog collars. by badfish99 · · Score: 1

      The whole point of the tags is that it's not possible to track people without them. The tracking is what the tags are for. I think the idiots who designed this simply forgot about the possibility that people would take the tags off.

    12. Re:Dog collars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a good use for this technology: tracking politicians. I say it would be a good way to prevent our politicians from sneaking over to the pages' dorm during a legislative break.

    13. Re:Dog collars. by mstahl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My suspicion is that they would want to watch the dots to determine how to most efficiently move people through the airport or otherwise study their movements. Were this the case, however, the tags would be anonymous. Either way, it's a problem that is not most effectively solved by RFID tags.

      Realistically, what is this going to do for any purpose whatsoever? It saddens me to know that air travel is going to be a fairly annoying if not downright humiliating process for a long time to come....

    14. Re:Dog collars. by deltacephei · · Score: 1

      I'm recalling a sick B movie where prisoners were fitted with collars linked to the perimeter - try to escape and the head is blown up.

      Hmm..and now some municipalities are requiring permanent RFID tags or tattoos for dogs...guess it won't be a big step in ten years to start RFID tagging people and then so very convenient to dispose of them when they step out of line. ;-)

    15. Re:Dog collars. by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      Is that the movie where they use eye scanners every time you enter a subway or anything and to get around that he steals someone else's eyes and has them put in his own head?

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    16. Re:Dog collars. by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      Nevermind, I know what it was--Minority Report! That movie fits well here too.

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    17. Re:Dog collars. by gessel · · Score: 1

      In order to ensure timely departures, at departure time a signal is sent which causes the device to explode.

      That's too bad, really, I would have enjoyed going to hungary. I guess not by air.

    18. Re:Dog collars. by mikael · · Score: 1

      Previously undisclosed details of the security system classification scheme:

      small white dots = passengers

      large yellow circle with a wedge missing = suspicious person

      large white circles = eating areas and wireless zones

      red, orange, pink and blue ghost figures with eyes = security personnel

      airport walls = blue lines

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    19. Re:Dog collars. by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 1

      I am SO relieved.

      After the suppository kicks in you might be.

      --
      Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    20. Re:Dog collars. by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Monitoring console manufactured by Namco I presume?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    21. Re:Dog collars. by crucini · · Score: 1
      I think the idiots who designed this simply forgot about the possibility that people would take the tags off.

      Yes, it's often like that. The specialists who spend months or years designing a system never think of issues that slashdotters think of in 30 seconds. Or so I hear on slashdot.

      I think it's almost a sixth sense, kind of like slashdotters' ability to find prior art for any patent in 30 seconds.
    22. Re:Dog collars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wedlock, aka Deadlock ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103239/ ).

    23. Re:Dog collars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's agitating my dots?

    24. Re:Dog collars. by Memnos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Excuse me, but this would be so easy to get around for anyone intent upon doing so. Unless the RFID tags were quite complex, and could effect something even simple like a challenge-handshake protocol, they could be read and copied easily, in real-time. Even if so, the system could be fooled. The average traveler, perhaps even the average diamond smuggler, would not bother, but a terrorist easily could. Oh, by the way, where was that guy Osama again?

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    25. Re:Dog collars. by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 1

      I'm recalling a sick B movie where prisoners were fitted with collars linked to the perimeter - try to escape and the head is blown up.

      If I'm not mistaken this was in The Running Man as well.

      --

      "Bah!" - Dogbert
    26. Re:Dog collars. by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

      If you think about it, an airport is a perfect place to test this type of technology: a small, controlled environment where everyone is identified before getting into the 'secure' area, and it's one thing place is very hard to avoid using if you want to travel large distances. It's just a matter of time before this technology moves from testing (airports) to deployment (out in the world). People need to push back on this and write their congress, boycott the airport, etc... there's nothing else to stop it.

      Posting with my 'slashdot' dog collar on. :)

    27. Re:Dog collars. by mpe · · Score: 1

      The specialists who spend months or years designing a system never think of issues that slashdotters think of in 30 seconds. Or so I hear on slashdot.
      I think it's almost a sixth sense, kind of like slashdotters' ability to find prior art for any patent in 30 seconds.


      It isn't a special attribute of "slashdotters". It's simply that people who are very wrapped up in something can easily miss all sorts of things which are obvious to third parties. Effectivly they build their own "box" to think inside.

    28. Re:Dog collars. by sunny256 · · Score: 1

      Previously undisclosed details of the security system classification scheme:

      small white dots = passengers
      large yellow circle with a wedge missing = suspicious person
      large white circles = eating areas and wireless zones
      red, orange, pink and blue ghost figures with eyes = security personnel
      airport walls = blue lines

      I would also use the term "suspicious person" about him if he walked around eating passengers.

  2. Luggage? by Richard+Allen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps they should invest some of this energy into tracking luggage?

    1. Re:Luggage? by Swingblade · · Score: 1

      Good point

    2. Re:Luggage? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny
      Perhaps they should invest some of this energy into tracking luggage?

      Thats the idea. Passengers and luggage will be merged. You bring along an extra suitcase and they seal you inside at the check in counter.

    3. Re:Luggage? by MrNaz · · Score: 2

      There's no point. Luggage doesn't have any rights to trample on.

      --
      I hate printers.
    4. Re:Luggage? by no-body · · Score: 1
      There's no point. Luggage doesn't have any rights to trample on.



      BS - luggage is owned by "somebody" and that "somebody" has a right to privacy.

      Luggage tracking on airports is pretty sophisticated, luggage tag numbers are linked to a ticket record, luggage can be immediatley linked to an individual with a wireless barcode scanner.

      And - if spooks want to search (and bug) the luggage of a human, all they need to do to go to TSA and have them to pull the luggage. You can bet that this is happening.

      So - there, you twerp!

      And - what are the TSA love notes you find in your luggage tell you - do you feel any safer with the habeas corpus dismantled by your government, in the great country of the USA?

    5. Re:Luggage? by MrNaz · · Score: 1, Funny

      Look up. See that? That speck against the clear blue sky? It's my point. It was part joke, part political snide remark and it flew so far over your head it crashed into Hubble. But I'm sure you're ok with that, you don't sound like the scientific type.

      --
      I hate printers.
    6. Re:Luggage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And - what are the TSA love notes you find in your luggage tell you - do you feel any safer with the habeas corpus dismantled by your government, in the great country of the USA?
      I don't think that word means what you think it means. For your reference
    7. Re:Luggage? by SeaFox · · Score: 1, Funny
      Perhaps they should invest some of this energy into tracking luggage?

      That's not a priority. Suspicious-looking suitcases don't blow up planes.

      Oh, wait...

      Anyway it wont happen, because in Soviet Russia, luggage tags track YOU!
    8. Re:Luggage? by Tdawgless · · Score: 0

      Airports always felt like a prison to me. :|

    9. Re:Luggage? by compro01 · · Score: 2

      Luggage tracking on airports is pretty sophisticated, luggage tag numbers are linked to a ticket record, luggage can be immediately linked to an individual with a wireless barcode scanner.

      and yet they still manage to lose mine...

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    10. Re:Luggage? by no-body · · Score: 1
      and yet they still manage to lose mine...


      So the system is faulty.
      Things get lost, but you can go to the lost luggage counter and have a chance.
      With the habeas corpus gone, there is no lost luggage counter to go when there is a fault in the system - arbitrary persons are goners.

      I'd consider this a major goof and real idiots producing this kind of shit!

    11. Re:Luggage? by john_uy · · Score: 1

      i came from hong kong one time and when i went back home there was a sticker in my bag. they didn't use the long white label with barcode strips. when i removed the sticker, there was a chip attached to it. i was surprised they used rfid already. but i guess their system there is much efficient and prevents lost baggages (from my impression but don't have the numbers to actually verify.)

      --
      Live your life each day as if it was your last.
    12. Re:Luggage? by WareW01f · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't that be nice. There are already barcodes on all of the bags. It would be a simple matter to use RFID instead. And hey, wouldn't it be nice if you had one on your ticket, then they could tell that you were on the plane and that your luggage was not, or vise versa. I guess I'd have to say that while I'm fairly big on privacy, I'd gladly be tracked if it ment that my luggage would find me. (Hey, if the spooks are following me, as long as they are watching my luggage, I'm happy) I guess I've just done the dance with the baggage claim one to many times to really stress about my 'privacy' in an airport terminal. They already make me take my shoes off, don't trust me to have a lid on the beverage I buy *in* the gate and rifle through my luggage while I'm waiting... I don't think there's much left to know other than I'm in the can vs standing in line at the Cinna-bun.

      I think the RFID/tin foil hat thing is going a bit far. I actually work with RFID. (GEN 2 tags) They are not evil, they are actually (at least with how I use them) trying to reduce the cost cunsumers pay by helping people manage inventory, something noone seems to be able to do. I think there just needs to be a nice little contract with the public. i.e. the vendors stick nice bright red RFID stickers on boxes, and people too lazy to take their razor blades out of the box can get 'tracked'. The fact of the matter is that that number (at least how it's used on the tags I use) mean jack to most anyone but the interested parties and retail systems are not really that advanced that you could actually be tracked by the tag on your box of Wheat Thins. Honesty, openness, and we can all get along.

    13. Re:Luggage? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Those aren't really for security, although they may have been sold to the people funding airports on that basis. They're for luggage tracking: barcde tags with RFID in them have gotten common, and it's easy to put a bar code reader on the doors to the planes and recrd what went in and out, and such readers on baggage carusels. It's not cheap, and it's fairly easy t destroy or confuse or to duplicate most such tags, but it's considerably more reliable and faster than having to find a bar code and get it through a reader, especially for a cart full of luggage.

    14. Re:Luggage? by JimBobJoe · · Score: 1

      You bring along an extra suitcase and they seal you inside at the check in counter.

      In the movie the Fifth Element, the interplanetary ship basically did that. I know quite a lot of people who believe that sticking passengers in boxes and drugging them for flight is inevitable.

      I'd be curious to see if they continue demanding ID to fly under the security ruse.

  3. Wouldn't this be a little late? by Robaato · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Okay, so they can keep close tabs on you in the airport. Yet, if you were intent on doing mischief, wouldn't you have done all your preparation before you even got there?

    1. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Okay, so they can keep close tabs on you in the airport. Yet, if you were intent on doing mischief, wouldn't you have done all your preparation before you even got there?

      I'd be interested to know exactly what problem tagging everyone is supposed to solve. Airports are already compartmentalised and people must show their boarding card / passport to move from one area to the next . So what difference would an RFID tag make? It might actually weaken the system since humans will be less attentive than they are now. I suppose it might have marginal benefits such as when you're trying to locate a person exactly but it hardly appears to warrant the expense of the system.

      Besides, a bad person who is intent on blowing themselves up on the plane makes every effort to abide by the same rules as other passengers. How does this system do anything at all to detect them? And terrorists who just want to kill a bunch of people at the airport can do that easily too - there are enough densely packed queues in airports to easily facilitate mass murder whether the terrorist has a valid passport, ticket, id or RFID or not. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen all the time. The queues are out the door on some days of the year.

    2. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by RealSurreal · · Score: 1

      I'm sure this has nothing to do with security and a lot more to do with making money as in this experiment : http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2165136/ airport-track-passengers

    3. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by Fred_A · · Score: 1
      I'd be interested to know exactly what problem tagging everyone is supposed to solve.
      Lack of income for monitoring gadgets salespeople apparently.
      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    4. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Hey, Robaato, quit using those critical thinking skills of yours...it's obviously another security industry ploy to pump money into that industry - most likely owned by a relative to that particular government or airport owner. Unless...is there a fetish called "dot watching"??

    5. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by chrisb33 · · Score: 1

      And terrorists who just want to kill a bunch of people at the airport can do that easily too - there are enough densely packed queues in airports to easily facilitate mass murder whether the terrorist has a valid passport, ticket, id or RFID or not.

      In fact, in this situation the tracking dots could be a liability - what if a terrorist gains access to the system? They could optimize their detonation to hit the most people by looking at when/where the most people gather.

    6. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by DrXym · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is there any need for access to the system? I know with a certainty approaching 100% that if I choose to travel on certain days of the year, that there will be queues of people everywhere. I know if there is a strike or some other disruption that there will be queues everywhere. Queues at checkin, queues to go through X-ray. As a terrorist, all they need do is pick the right day, walk in the door, head for the nearest queue and kaboom. In some ways extra security has made it easier for the terrorist since the lines are longer.

    7. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by denebian+devil · · Score: 2

      I'd be interested to know exactly what problem tagging everyone is supposed to solve.

      Well, I believe one of the side benefits mentioned was being able to find lost kids. Think of the children!!

    8. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what if a terrorist gains access to the system? They could optimize their detonation to hit the most people by looking at when/where the most people gather.

      Duh. Terrorists already do that; that's why they usually blow up airplanes, buses, subways, malls, restaurants etc.

    9. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by badfish99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That article says that an expensive RFID tagging system would allow the airport to open up more security checking lanes when the existing ones were busy.

      Are airport operators really so stupid that they need to pay someone huge sums of money to tell them when there's a long queue of people at security? Are they blind?

    10. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >I'd be interested to know exactly what problem tagging everyone is supposed to solve.

      The cynical answer would be, the problem of people who think they are free citizens.

      Is it just me, or has commercial air travel hit the floor of tolerability already?

    11. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd be interested to know exactly what problem tagging everyone is supposed to solve.

      It's not supposed to solve any particular problem. It's just one more aspect of the elaborate security theater that the public is willing to go along with because it makes them feel safer, somehow. I'd be willing to bet that most people don't think about it that hard, they just comply.

      In reality, this sort of thing won't do a solitary damned thing to increase anyone's safety. All it will do is turn them into compliant sheep. Most people are more at risk of slipping on a bar of soap in their bathroom and breaking their neck than they are of being victim of a terrorist attack. If you build a list of ways that you are likely to die or be harmed, terrorism is way down toward the bottom. Yet, let's all put on government-issued collars, stand in line at security checkpoints, and submit to continous surveillance so they can "protect" us.

      I weep for this species.

    12. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by chrisb33 · · Score: 1
      what if a terrorist gains access to the system? They could optimize their detonation to hit the most people by looking at when/where the most people gather.

      Duh. Terrorists already do that; that's why they usually blow up airplanes, buses, subways, malls, restaurants etc.

      Still, knowing that a 7th grade class trip is on the way to the security line could allow them to make their attacks do even more damage (physically and psychologically). While it's hard to imagine 9/11 being worse than it was, the terrorists could have killed many more people in the towers if they had chosen a day when more people were in the buildings. While I agree with "way2trivial" above that killing people is not the ultimate goal of the terrorists, it sure helps their cause.
    13. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, knowing that a 7th grade class trip is on the way to the security line could allow them to make their attacks do even more damage (physically and psychologically).

      If there actually is a suicide bomber in the airport it will be easier for him to follow just behind the 7th grade class than to walk around with netstumbler and try to hack into a airport-wide RFID positioning system.

      killing people is not the ultimate goal of the terrorists, it sure helps their cause.

      What is their cause and where did you learn about it? Fox news might be a slightly biased source.

    14. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by chrisb33 · · Score: 1
      Still, knowing that a 7th grade class trip is on the way to the security line could allow them to make their attacks do even more damage (physically and psychologically).

      If there actually is a suicide bomber in the airport it will be easier for him to follow just behind the 7th grade class than to walk around with netstumbler and try to hack into a airport-wide RFID positioning system.
      My point is that the terrorist is probably unaware of when the largest groups of people will be passing through. I'm not saying that breaking into the system would necessarily be worth the trouble, but the dangers inherent in this real-time database may be enough to outweigh the marginal benefits of this system.

      killing people is not the ultimate goal of the terrorists, it sure helps their cause.

      What is their cause and where did you learn about it? Fox news might be a slightly biased source.
      Um... what? Why would you think that I agree with Fox news? I'm arguing against privacy intrusion. And the goal of the terrorist is, by definition, to cause terror (for whatever reason). So, killing people is not their ultimate goal, but it definitely helps to induce terror if people are being killed in public.
    15. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1
      chrisb33 writes:

      Still, knowing that a 7th grade class trip is on the way to the security line could allow them to make their attacks do even more damage (physically and psychologically). While it's hard to imagine 9/11 being worse than it was, the terrorists could have killed many more people in the towers if they had chosen a day when more people were in the buildings. While I agree with "way2trivial" above that killing people is not the ultimate goal of the terrorists, it sure helps their cause.

      (Note: bolding of text above is mine, not that of the original poster.)

      The first plane hit at 8:46 am, the second plane at 9:03 am. These were two huge office buildings in Manhattan, hit at the beginning of the second workday of the week (Tuesday). I don't know if they could have known which day would be more populated, but don't kid yourself -- they were certainly intent on killing people, not just wrecking the buildings. Otherwise they could have attacked at 3 am on a Sunday.
    16. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? by chrisb33 · · Score: 1
      I don't know if they could have known which day would be more populated, but don't kid yourself -- they were certainly intent on killing people, not just wrecking the buildings.

      I definitely agree - that's why gaining access to a system that would allow them to know the best times to attack would be a major issue.
  4. Will it work both ways? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

    This news started to come out a few days ago when the EU started negotiating about the flight data given to the Americans.

    What I wonder is will American travellers to Europe be forced to wear these, and will security teams be able to zap anyone acting suspiciously.

    Could we even vote to have folks we don't like zapped?

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:Will it work both ways? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Could we even vote to have folks we don't like zapped?

      If that were the case, I suspect that the number of heart attacks among cell phone users would rise dramatically.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  5. Well, it does say "Tag" by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Funny
    Don't worry, after they've stapled this to your ear, they'll let you go so you can go back to mingling with the rest of the herd.

    Just count yourself fortunate that they've given up on their branding idea...

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:Well, it does say "Tag" by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Just count yourself fortunate that they've given up on their branding idea

      [Whiney Homer voice] Does it go in the butt?

    2. Re:Well, it does say "Tag" by sdpuppy · · Score: 1
      Just count yourself fortunate that they've given up on their branding idea...

      Dang!

      and I was sooooo counting on collecting tattoos of my trips to show my grand kids

      "And this is when I went to Kansas and I got this one - ooh I remember this that pretty stewdardess gave that one twice, after I pinched her....."

    3. Re:Well, it does say "Tag" by ArikTheRed · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why the hell would anyone brag about comming to Kansas?

    4. Re:Well, it does say "Tag" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Theres no place like the butt"

  6. Why. by ColaMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the hell's this for? Forensics after the fact?

    "Yes, and as you can see that the terrorist loitered a lot near the toilets. Of course, quite a few people do that as well while waiting for relatives to finish their business, so we can't use that as a reliable indicator of evil intent. But I'm sure, in time, we'll find something that will show us for certain. Please, we need more funds for research."

    --

    You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
    There is a lot of hype here.
    1. Re:Why. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Someone thinks they can (or knows how to) identify suspicious patterns of movement.

      Remember how experts have been saying racial profiling is a bad idea? Well this is one of the alternatives, tracking your movements for suspicious behavior.

      Relying on technology is easier than training lots and lots of people in how to recognize suspicious/anxious behavior

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Why. by Plutonite · · Score: 1

      Actually I don't believe the terrorists loiter very much, they've got so much to do, things to blow up.. However, it may be useful for forsenics if you can spot the people who were with the terrorists but left earlier..etc.

      Still a failure due to problems with keeping the tags on the right people/in the right places. Better to put the tags on passoports than around people's necks in my humble opinion, but RFID = problems anyway.

  7. the script on the monitoring side by merdaccia · · Score: 2, Funny

    %country_trust_level("Albania" => 5, "Andorra" => 6 ... )

    ...

    if ($country_trust_level{$RFID->citizenship} < 5) {
    run_1984($RFID);
    }

    ...

    --

    *blinking cursor*

    1. Re:the script on the monitoring side by Dausha · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I'm deeply troubled that the monitoring script is written in Perl. That language isn't sexy enough anymore for _real_ programming. Besides, there's little documentation, so some maintainer will decide to change the code to make it look more active-voice. For example:

      run_1984($RFID) if ($country_trust_level{$RFID->citizenship} 5);

      I challenge any Perl programmers to write this in a much more obfuscated way.

      --
      What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
    2. Re:the script on the monitoring side by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1

      I'd be really scared if we ever had a computer programmer who became a lawyer (or vice versa) and became a member of Congress. No one would be able to interpret a piece of legislation that was created as an unholy mixture of obfuscated C/Perl/Fortran/etc. and legalese -- that congressperson would be able to put whatever they wanted in that piece of legislation and no one would be able to tell.

    3. Re:the script on the monitoring side by fmobus · · Score: 1

      As if US Congressman could interpret legislation like "Patriot Act" before passing it.

    4. Re:the script on the monitoring side by mikael · · Score: 1

      You haven't seen a H1-B work visa petition :)

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  8. Information overload by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Great, the system can track everyone at all times, but how can anyone make any sense of this information? And what exactly is it meant to prevent anyway? Would tracking the 9/11 bombers have helped? Would it have stopped the shoe-bomber getting on the plane? If something happens we'll know exactly where the perpitrators were AFTER the event, but that won't really help. This is about as useful as knowing what colour all passengers underwear is. It's all about the appearance of doing something rather than actually doing something.

    1. Re:Information overload by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      I suppose the idea is to employ some kind of machine learning, where the system learns to distinguish normal from suspicious patterns. The suspicious patterns would then lead to an investigation; hopefully, this investigation will prevent bad things from happening.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    2. Re:Information overload by Loconut1389 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They already do know what color everyone's underwear is- or at least a sufficient random sampling. What do you think the 'extra' screenings are for?

    3. Re:Information overload by dangitman · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure the terrorists wouldn't make any effort at all to avoid "suspicious" patterns. It's thinking like this that helps, not hinders them.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:Information overload by kimvette · · Score: 1

      And even more shortsighted, if someone is going to sneak through a back door in one of the shops/vendors, wouldn't he or she simply remove the tag, leaving it in a spot (like the back of a seat) where one would like to remain stationary, or have an accomplice carry his tag while wanders off to do Bad Guy(tm) stuff? I know this will sound cliche: but if everyone is tagged, only criminals won't have tags.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    5. Re:Information overload by sgt_doom · · Score: 2, Informative
      Would tracking the 9/11 bombers have helped?

      A lot of time has passed since 9/11/01, and as a consequence the facts are getting hazier and hazier. FYI, they (CIA, FBI) were tracking the 9/11/01 bombers and didn't help worth a sh*t!

    6. Re:Information overload by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Would tracking the 9/11 bombers have helped?

      Let's profile the guy who flew into the Pentagon. He came from a country where the majority of the population is Christian, he drank alcohol, he went to univeristy in Europe, he went to discos, he had a Christian girlfriend and even his family didn't know he had vistied a bunch of extremists for a few weeks. Since he wasn't even the sort of person you would expect to even listen to Bin Laden he doesn't fit any sort of useful profile - only ones used by Xenophobes that think picking on schoolgirls for wearing a veil is a good way for the lazy to wage the war against terror.

      I think it is time to hand this sort of thing back to law enforcement and get the spooks out - we need to think of it as a crime and not some opportunity to get more funding for seperate unaccountable bunches of spooks.

    7. Re:Information overload by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      True. That's why such information needs to be coupled with things like vehicle sensors and door sensors, and why excessive idleness in certain areas or for certain classes of tag should itself be a flag in the system. A janitor taking half an hour in the men's room to clean it is unsurprising: a passenger sitting there for 45 minutes? That might be worth sending a security person to take a look and make sure they're OK. The much more useful data from this is probably for queue handling: knowing automatically that the queue at gate 5A has just come to a standstill and there are 100 people in line, 5 minutes before a flight is due to leave from there, could be very helpful indeed to re-assign security staff and speed up the lines, or a lack of people at another line could get security to send the backed up passengers to the other line. That sort of informationn is very valuable to the airport staff. It's also potentially quite handy for lost luggage tracking: by spreading out the sensors at the baggage handling areas and baggage carousels and even possibly the car parks, it should ease the tracking of accidentally removed or of casually stolen baggage, giving much better lists of when the baggage was last detected and where. That's a big problem that justifies spending some money, and as long as the readers are being put in for passenger tracking, we may as well get some useful information out of them.

    8. Re:Information overload by Loconut1389 · · Score: 1

      Despite the "insightful" moderation, that was meant as a joke ;o)

  9. Outright refusal to be tagged! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do they do about that?

    1. Re:Outright refusal to be tagged! by Ceriel+Nosforit · · Score: 1

      Escort you from the premises.

      From now on, I'm no longer flying.

      --
      All rites reversed 2010
    2. Re:Outright refusal to be tagged! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Escort you from the premises.

      You mean escort me to the airline desk for a refund?

      > From now on, I'm no longer flying.

      Apparently terrorism does work.

    3. Re:Outright refusal to be tagged! by Alchemar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What makes you think that you can get a refund. Getting escorted from an airport for "security reasons" does not entitle you to a refund. It was "your choice" to act in a manor that did not allow them to put you on a plane. You will also be reported to the authoraties as having suspicious behavior, and placed on a U.S. watch list. It doesn't matter what country your are from or what country you were in when it happened, you will be placed on a U.S. watch list. You will probably be placed on several list for several other countries. You are now a suspected terrorist, you have forfieted any rights as a human being, and the rights of anyone associated with you. I hope you don't have to travel for business, they will probably let you on the plane if you don't mouth off during the now required body search anytime you want to get on a plane. Maybe it is your sister that needs to travel for business, after missing a few flights due to searches taking a little too long, she will be looking at you for a new source of income.

      The idea of collars sounds horrible, but after people realize that the consequences of "their choise" to not wear one are much worse, people will start to accept them.

      Stay citizen, come here citizen, fetch your papers citizen. Good citizen, here is a boarding pass for you.( Pats citizen on head )

  10. would you trust someone from Andorra? by krell · · Score: 3, Funny

    "%country_trust_level("Albania" => 5, "Andorra" => 6 ... )"

    Andorra? Their twitchy antennea and their smurfy complexion always make me so nervous.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
  11. Security? by subreality · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can believe the bits about passenger flow and efficiency, but what security is this supposed to add? The security in airports is theoretically based on keeping Bad People (by whatever definition) out. Assuming some Bad Person gets in, what is tracking their movements within 1m ever going to do to indicate that they're doing something Bad?

    To me, this sounds like an efficiency study that they tacked on the word "Security" in order to sidestep the civil liberties issues. We've seen this done plenty of times before, but I'm amazed at how transparent it is here.

    1. Re:Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, this sort of data is any AI-researcher's wet dream. My first thought would be to implement some algorithm that learns how people move through the airport, based on the set of all locations over time per person. Once the algorithm successfully predicts the movements of people, you let it analyse what everybody is doing in the airport. People whose movements don't match what the algorithm predicts are tagged as 'outliers', and security can at any time simply request the n people that deviate most from the norm, and keep an eye on them with their high def camera's.

      The problem with these techniques, of course, is the normalizing effect. Everybody that does something weird, or out of the ordinary gets observed. Little charming quirks in your personality, like sitting down on the floor in some empty space instead of sitting in on a bench in the crowded waiting area, will instantly arouse suspicion. Do what everybody does, or you'll be suspected, watched and usually, gently prodded back in line. All human societies have an inherent normalizing effect. In this case the reason isn't just security, improving efficiency usually means weeding out the weirdos as well. And all technology does in these cases is amplify that effect. Just think of the whole slashdot moderation thing, it works beautifully, but it also makes the groupthink a lot stronger (and the slashdot crowd is on the whole a relatively intelligent and critical subset of society).

      Of course any real terrorist will make sure that he (or she) acts as normal as possible. In fact with the amount of attention being paid to air travel, terrorists are probably just looking for less secured areas (like the the Spanish train bombings or the London subway).

    2. Re:Security? by malilo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      mod parent up

      --
      "sometimes he felt that his whole life was a dream, and he wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it."
    3. Re:Security? by Stonent1 · · Score: 1

      When people toss around the term "Civil Liberties" you have to remember that not every country is the US, UK, or Canada. If you don't like what they are doing, you have the option of seeking alternate modes of transportation.

      Does anyone here at slashdot work for a living? If so, you've no doubt encountered access badges at some place that you've worked. You walk up to the door, swipe your badge by the sensor and the door unlocks. You think they don't keep records of that? My employer also has a lot of video cameras in their buildings, including one right over our department that is set to pause at each desk for a few seconds and move to the next. We also have a VOIP phone system where they do random call auditing to see what you've been doing. On occasion people get asked about things. Background checks for new hires are also common. I've even been asked if I've traveled outside the country in the past few years and for what purpose.

    4. Re:Security? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0
      I can believe the bits about passenger flow and efficiency, but what security is this supposed to add?
      A scenario:

      A guy is seen talking with about four other guys in front of the shopping district. Each are seen with guns. Security is notified and they check their RFID readers and cameras. They find them, send some agents in, and reel 'em in.

      Assuming that they can iron out the problem of switching/taking off the collars, it could work to quickly take down threats. It at least has potential to fulfill its objectives. It's just a pity that these objectives don't include preserving privacy.
      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    5. Re:Security? by mpe · · Score: 1

      Of course any real terrorist will make sure that he (or she) acts as normal as possible.

      Even if such a system could flag "too normal" as well as "too abnormal" the number of false positives would render it worst than useless for actual security.

    6. Re:Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Efficiency is exactly what I was thinking about. Suppose they programmed the plane each person is supposed to go to into the tracking system: they can make sure people are going the right direction to get to their plane in time. Or they can put links between multiple tags so if a kid or parent gets separated from each other just go to the nearest person with a card reader and you can find them to within a meter. I am sure there are plenty of other advantages to this.

    7. Re:Security? by epee1221 · · Score: 1
      Each are seen with guns.
      In the airport, eh?
      Why do you need to track them after you've seen them with guns? Just arrest them on sight.
      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
    8. Re:Security? by badfish99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And you put up with this shit?

      People wouldn't be treated like sheep, if they didn't behave like sheep.

    9. Re:Security? by kent_eh · · Score: 1
      Little charming quirks in your personality, like sitting down on the floor in some empty space instead of sitting in on a bench in the crowded waiting area, will instantly arouse suspicion.


      Or spending a lot of time looking at the architechture?

      I do this a lot in any place that I happen to be, including airports.

      It may not be normal for the majority of people, but it is normal for me (and a small group of other people).


      I don't feel safer if security is spending it's time constantly challenging me for appreciating the (no doubt expensive) architectural features, sculptures, and other stuff that has been added to the airport stricly for it's decorative value.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    10. Re:Security? by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1
      epee1221 writes:
      Why do you need to track them after you've seen them with guns? Just arrest them on sight.
      Perhaps the report was made by a civillian?

      Perhaps the policeman who saw them would like a buddy or two to back him up while he goes to arrest five "guys with guns"? He (or she -- could be a policewoman) might like to be able to enjoy dinner with the wife and kids later that night instead of being prepped for burial.
    11. Re:Security? by crucini · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Mostly insightful. But:
      Of course any real terrorist will make sure that he (or she) acts as normal as possible.
      This is the classic geek mistake when examining security - to assume it's a logic puzzle or chessboard. In the real world, if you can place an obstacle in your adversary's path, you gain an advantage. Of course he will probably go around it, but it gives him an additional burden and an additional chance to make a mistake.

      There are probably thousands of variations on an airplane terrorist attack, each adapted to the visible security measures. The simpler variations have less complexity to break, but are easily stopped by the first security measures. A rational attacker would tend to choose the simplest workable plan. As the defender adds obstacles, the attacker has to add risky complexity to his plan.

      I imagine that a geek would see a soldier digging a foxhole and tell him it's pointless - the enemy will just shoot him when he pokes his head up.
  12. Its as simple as this... by simonjp · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ... yet another place I wont be going anytime soon. Much like the States.

    --
    , , , , , karma elon
  13. A matter of trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now all we need is trust those terrorists won't remove the tags from their necks before doing evil stuff. The perfect system.

    1. Re:A matter of trust by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You, sir! You're under arrest for performing a suicide bombing!

      But...but...I'm still alive!

      Tell that to the court! We have solid evidence that you were involved in the bombing; your tag was found at the explosion site!

      My tag? My tag! Where's my tag? It's been stolen!

      Enough of that! We have it on record: you were in the middle of the explosion when it happened. You can object all you want, but everybody knows that computers don't make mistakes. You're guilty and you know it!

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  14. The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The right to walk through an airport and not be watched?

    When you leave your home, you may be monitored. In the old days, it was by a plainsclothes detective popping stay-awake pills and eating doughnuts in his car parked across the street. In modern times, it is through camera surveillance and RFID.

    "You" have a right to try and elude the surveillance, by sneaking out the back door (then) and wearing tin-foil underwear (now), and "They" have the right to raise the ante by hiring smarter policemen and designing more powerful scanners.

    That's the game. Play, or stay home. If "They" start spying on you in your home, *then* you can call the lawyers.

    1. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sort of. I'd personally rather not have an obnoxious government screaming about how they are protecting me from myself. If I don't believe that the costs of a program are justified by the benefits, speaking up about it is a great idea.

      In that sense, as long as I can fly a Cessna full of gas into the passenger cabin of a airliner that is about to take off, I don't think we need to worry about exactly where people are inside the airport.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      When you leave your home, you may be monitored. /.../ That's the game. Play, or stay home.

      It is truly terrifying to see how low the american people has fallen and lost all sense of privacy.

      You are spoon-fed slogans like the "land of the free" but in reality you live in one of the most oppressive societies in human history where every movement you make is being tracked and registered by the authorities - and amazingly you're proud of it!

    3. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      World Series would be better. Is anyone checking the blimp piloting schools?

    4. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by maxume · · Score: 1

      You underestimate the importance of sports, I think. No fly zones with military enforcement would quickly become the norm.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Commenting from the streets of London are we?

      I honestly don't think that it is oppression. It is ignorance and incompetence. People demand things that make them *feel* safer and forget to worry about whether they *make* them safer, so that's what we get. It can only get as bad as it gets, then it starts to get better.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    6. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by tomjen · · Score: 1

      "You" have a right to try and elude the surveillance

      Or just destroy it - by exposing said policemen on a giant billboard and by destroying any and all tags with an emp (you dont think that is possible? The Chaos Computer Club made one out of a disposable camera).

      If the goverment wants to play dirty, we can play dirty too.

      --
      Freedom or George Bush
    7. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by richcoder · · Score: 1

      "That's the game. Play, or stay home. If "They" start spying on you in your home, *then* you can call the lawyers."

      Here is an idea. How about not waiting around like sheep until that happens?

      -rich

    8. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by mpe · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't think that it is oppression. It is ignorance and incompetence. People demand things that make them *feel* safer

      Typically from a small list of options presented by the untrustworthy.

      and forget to worry about whether they *make* them safer

      Or at least make them no less safe.

    9. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When you leave your home, you may be monitored. In the old days, it was by a plainsclothes detective popping stay-awake pills and eating doughnuts in his car parked across the street. In modern times, it is through camera surveillance and RFID.

      I'm no fucking not-a-suicide-pact posner but in my opinion when the 'monitoring' goes from the guys with the donuts to the billion-dollar government contracts for systemic automated surveillance the government has already overstepped the bounds of what constitutes a reasonable search and is in violation of the 4th Amendement.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    10. Re:The 'hurdle' of people's rights? by suman28 · · Score: 1

      That is probably the reason they are trying to do this in US (yet). The citizens of Hungary needs to protest better, but who really has a choice?

  15. 10m to 20m? by rholliday · · Score: 2, Insightful


    If their maximum range is only 20 meters, I would certainly hope they can be accurate to within 1.
    </pedant>

    --
    Xbox reviews.. We think they're funny.
  16. Easy fix... by Ryz0r · · Score: 1

    Time for the hungarians to wear their Tinfoil scarves!

    --
    Peace, Love, Unity, Respect
  17. High Powered RFID tags? by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought RFID tags were passive devices. How do you make a "high powered" passive device? I guess you can increase the power of the scanners, but the tags themselves are the same no?

    1. Re:High Powered RFID tags? by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      bigger antenna? more sensitive transponders?

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    2. Re:High Powered RFID tags? by autOmato · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are active RFID devices, that have their own power supply.

      See:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID#Active

    3. Re:High Powered RFID tags? by Martix · · Score: 1

      Micro wave ovens for power cook your passangers

  18. Before everyone starts jumping the gun by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We're talking about a small airport! Possibly a few dozen people at best on a busy day. As a hungarian I'd preferred to have a better story posted about Hungary, but heh. Domestic flight is really small, given that the country isn't so large either. It is misleading to say that this airport is a major one, I don't think it is a terrorist target at all.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      And then it will be a larger airport, then all airports, then other 'high-security' areas. And at each point people will say "well, it's only a little different than before", and take each incremental assault on our liberty until we're all wearing dog collars everywhere, all the time.

    2. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

      Yeah ok. Please make the mistake of equating someone's stupid research project which is most likely totally unviable in a normal airport with totalitarian control.

      Look, I'm privacy conscious as the next slashdotter, but this is just simply not an issue here. Who would trust a security system whose creator doesn't even know that dirty bombs doesn't exist in reality.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    3. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by MrNaz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you told a frequent flier 20 years ago about today's security procedures he would tell you that it was unlivable. Governmnets have realized that to seize control of society, you do it so slowly that nobody notices. You, my friend, don't seem to be noticing.

      --
      I hate printers.
    4. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1

      Because I'm not flying. Although I do travel a lot - by train. My country isn't a constant state of paranoia, like the USA seems to be...

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    5. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by Fouquet · · Score: 1

      If this airport only serves a few dozen people each day, how can they possibly have passenger flow problems?

      Until I read your post, I envisioned someone watching a computer screen with thousands of little dots overlaid on a floorplan of the airport, and saying something like: "Congestion at security line 6, open 2 more lines", or something like that.

      If there are only a few dozen people using the airport, I don't see how anyone can interperet this as anything except 'big-(Hungarian)-brother'

    6. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Having recently travelled to Hungary, I have to agree with you. The US and the UK take the prize for the most intrusive police behavior, so far, in my experience of travelling and working in over 20 countries.

    7. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by mpe · · Score: 1

      Until I read your post, I envisioned someone watching a computer screen with thousands of little dots overlaid on a floorplan of the airport, and saying something like: "Congestion at security line 6, open 2 more lines", or something like that.

      If such a system was viable you'd expect major supermarkets to to looking at it. If their checkouts are too busy customers can just leave, with goods having to be either reshelved or disposed of...

    8. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by Dausha · · Score: 1

      Give him a break. Hungary was once a Soviet satellite. This is penny-ante stuff in comparison to old-school Soviet tactics. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary]

      But, for what it's worth, Courts have the special circumstances rule that lowers a U.S. citizen's enjoyment of Fourth Amendment rights under conditions where the risk of not searching is so much higher that "reasonable" is lower. For example, if I told you that one out of 1,000 people in a room had a bomb, would it be unreasonable to search everybody? The risk of allowing terrorists another shot in playing kamakazi is high enough to make otherwise excessive tactics reasonable.

      If you want to change that, then help stop global terrorism instead of bitching about your rights being trampled upon.

      --
      What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
    9. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by Minstrel+Boy · · Score: 1

      I'm telling you that more like one in several MILLION people has a bomb. If you run the numbers of travellers vs bombs detonated/discovered, that's what you get. (I don't really care about the people who, for whatever reason, owned a bomb and transported it peaceably and undetected.) Yes, it's unreasonable to search everybody.

      KeS

    10. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      "If you want to change that, then help stop global terrorism instead of bitching about your rights being trampled upon."

      I am. You can to. Don't vote for a leader who perpetuates war by peddling idiotic scare tactics.

      --
      I hate printers.
    11. Re:Before everyone starts jumping the gun by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      If you told me that 1 of 1000 people in a room had a bomb, that wouldn't change the reasonableness at all, because you'd be full of shit.

      The risk of anyone actually having a bomb in an airport is actually much lower, of course. You've got better odds of having 1000 people randomly in a room being powerball winners. And with odds like that, searching everyone in the room is completely unreasonable.

      And I find my rights being trampled on much more of a risk than global terrorism.

  19. Sheeple gave up their liberties long ago by Gothmolly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People began screaming "Make us feel safer!" to the gubmint and airlines shortly after 9/11. The vast majority of people I know will welcome this, they'll sit there smugly thinking they're safe, indeed, they'll be safe in their cattle car all the way to the Final Destination.

    +Godwinned?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Sheeple gave up their liberties long ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The vast majority of people I know will welcome this, they'll sit there smugly thinking they're safe

      Indeed. Someone pointed out to me once that with all the increased security and therefore longer security lines at busy airports these days the most efficient way to kill people would not be to blow up a plane, but to put a big claymore mine inside a "carry on" bag and detonate it in the middle of the herd of people waiting to get through security. Frankly, I'm surprized no one's done/tried this yet.

  20. Story sumbitted two days ago by joe545 · · Score: 2

    I submitted this same story two days ago and it was rejected. What has changed in the intervening two days to make the story publishable?

    1. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 5, Funny

      What makes you think anything needed to change in order for the story to be accepted from another submitter? You're not assuming the process is anything like rational or unbiased, are you?

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    2. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      I submitted this same story two days ago and it was rejected. What has changed in the intervening two days to make the story publishable?

      I of course didn't see your submission, but you probably failed to employ the powerful one-two punch of first verbifing the noun "trial," and then cleverly following that up with the use a double-l when doing so. Slashdot has standards, you know.

      Note to self: Is it foolish to complain about the spelling of made-up words?

    3. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by dangitman · · Score: 1
      Note to self: Is it foolish to complain about the spelling of made-up words?

      Not at all. It's a perfectly cromulent grievance.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by bobsledbob · · Score: 1

      Because, the omelette had already been made for that day. And, they don't keep ingredients around for the next day, lest they spoil.

      --
      Beware of geeks bearing formulas.
    5. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by LouisZepher · · Score: 1

      "Note to self: Is it foolish to complain about the spelling of made-up words?"

      Not really. (Way off-topic...)I write "novel quality" fanfiction as a hobby (see the link next to my name), and I find it annoying when the grammar-checker in MS Word citicizes text in quotations (dialogue). One would think that there would be an option to exclude text found in quotes to avoid this, but apparantly I must be the only one that doesn't type exclusively in Notepad.

    6. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by denebian+devil · · Score: 1

      "Trialled" was used in TFA, so if you're going to complain about made-up words, go whine at The Register.

    7. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by denebian+devil · · Score: 1

      I had the same thing happen to me just the other day. Some days you win, some you lose. I'm just impressed your comment managed to get modded up rather than down. Be happy for small victories.

      And for the record, I don't know exactly when you submitted the story, but I submitted mine early Friday morning, and it only just got published today. Stories yesterday sat for hours before being accepted/rejected. They must have had a large number of submissions. So it's possible we submitted our stories around the same time.

    8. Re:Story sumbitted two days ago by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      You're right. My apologies. The summary does say that you wrote it.

      (I'd still have changed it if I were submitting the story ;-)

  21. I don't mind by rannala · · Score: 1

    My scarf is made of tinfoil!

  22. How does this improve security? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What I don't get is how this system is supposed to improve security. I mean, this whole scare is about suicide bombers, right? So you tag everybody, and then they magically aren't going to be doing their thing? I don't see how these tags prevent people from blowing themselves up, taking a gun and shooting people, smuggling packages on planes, etc.

    Worse, this system is actually going to make matters worse: it costs money, people need to be watching the system, and people need to investigate whateven "suspicious behavior" occurs. All this takes resources away from more effective measures.

    At least, that's how I see it. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe this system is dumb. Or maybe it actually rather cleverly serves a purpose _other_ than security (e.g. putting money in the pockets of the designers).

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    1. Re:How does this improve security? by db32 · · Score: 1

      You are confused. It doesn't make things worse because "it costs money" it makes things better because "it makes money" You are only viewing it from the end of the people getting screwed. Try again, except this time put yourself in the place of the defense contractors and security companies making money off of paranoid governments. This is PERFECT! Can you imagine the cost of a system capable of doing this? This is a big ticket project. Look in the US when 9/11 happened, guess who was the loudest voices for why we need a national ID card system...Oracle was one of em :) The big database folks, the folks that would stand to make a FORTUNE on it...

      To be perfectly honest I'm not entirely sure how much of this is driven by paranoid governments wanting to watch their people, so much as greedy politicians knowing they can partner up with these folks and make huge ammounts of cash playing on the fear of terrorism. The being able to watch everyone is kind of a bonus, the cash is the real motivation.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    2. Re:How does this improve security? by mpe · · Score: 1

      Worse, this system is actually going to make matters worse: it costs money, people need to be watching the system, and people need to investigate whateven "suspicious behavior" occurs. All this takes resources away from more effective measures.
      At least, that's how I see it. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe this system is dumb. Or maybe it actually rather cleverly serves a purpose _other_ than security (e.g. putting money in the pockets of the designers).


      If the latter, were it to provably fail they can always claim they were provided with "insufficent resources" (i.e. they want more money...)

    3. Re:How does this improve security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not about security. It is about 2 things:

      i) PORK
      ii) condition people to accept even more intrusive surveillance - airports first, then trains, then busses, then cars, then homes.

    4. Re:How does this improve security? by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      what really scares me is what about

      make a statue with some sort with a hollow section and a nonscanable shell (lead paint or similar)
      put a bomb inside the statue with a time/scan trigger (scan starts a clock ) or a no delay scan trigger (don't bother making it nonscannable)

      what kind of body counts can you get from an airport checkpoint???

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  23. The Catalogue by nr1 · · Score: 1
  24. Terrorists rare, tourists common. by geoff+lane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly how does this increase security? Terrorists are very rare. Tourists are both very common and very stupid. The only result will be security running around fishing tags out of toilets and vending machines.

    1. Re:Terrorists rare, tourists common. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      Exactly how does this increase security? Terrorists are very rare. ...
      ---
      Well, when the next guy blows a plane up with the explosives he put up his ass, they can show every move he made on the airport _before_ he boarded.
      Not like the shady photos last time, this makes much better TV afterwards. People will feel so relieved.

    2. Re:Terrorists rare, tourists common. by mpe · · Score: 1

      Well, when the next guy blows a plane up with the explosives he put up his ass, they can show every move he made on the airport _before_ he boarded.
      Not like the shady photos last time,


      Without a datestamp and of such poor quality they could have been shot anywhere at any time.

      this makes much better TV afterwards. People will feel so relieved.

      Assuming that this system dosn't suffer a malfunction co-incident with a terrorist attack

    3. Re:Terrorists rare, tourists common. by slowbad · · Score: 1
      Tourists are both very common and very stupid.

      That is why a different RFUD system is needed: Darts.

      Give everyone there a one-time-use marker paint that they can throw at the biggest jerk they see.
      Once someone accumulates 5 hits of "invisible" paint, they will undergo further airport scrutiny.

      This program can be extended to cars, where rude and awful drivers get tagged by the community.

  25. Key phrase "2m of European funding" by 2phar · · Score: 1

    Minor details like feasibility and civil rights don't really come into it. It's about who can come up with neat sounding proposals in order to get the penpushers to give you a hand-out from things like the 14bn 6th Framework fund. But don't hold your breath if you're expecting a real-world working system anytime soon.

  26. Running late??? by xenoxaos · · Score: 1

    But will they hold your plane at the gate if the computer sees that you're hauling ass to get to the terminal on time? I personally would be wearing a hoodie made out of aluminum foil, but that may just be my paranoia kicking in.

    1. Re:Running late??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I think they'll have security jump you for "suspicious behavior".

  27. Evaluation by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Funny

    After the study has been completed:

    We proudly present the results of the evaluation of the ultra airport security system. During the evaluation, no acts of terrorism were committed in this airport. Clearly, the system is a great success and well worth the investment. We recommend the system to be kept in place and be installed in other airports and public places, as well.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    1. Re:Evaluation by tkw954 · · Score: 2, Funny
      We proudly present the results of the evaluation of the ultra airport security system. During the evaluation, no acts of terrorism were committed in this airport. Clearly, the system is a great success and well worth the investment. We recommend the system to be kept in place and be installed in other airports and public places, as well.

      Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.


      Homer: Hmm. How does it work?


      Lisa: It doesn't work. (pause) It's just a stupid rock!


      Homer: Uh-huh.


      Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?


      Homer: (pause) Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

  28. Up Next... by Herkum01 · · Score: 1
    Due to a financial crunch, airlines will sell licenses to hunt their passengers for tagging. The hunting grounds will be limited to the airport terminal and parking lot. Weapons will be limited to non-lethal so they will not be considered "inhumane". Allowed weapons include:
    • paintball guns
    • bb-guns
    • tasers
    • baseball bats
    • pointy sticks
    • nightsticks
    • .22 caliber pistols
    • and very dull knives
    1. Re:Up Next... by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 1

      I believe the currently preferred jargon is "less-than-lethal"...

  29. Just make it the boarding pass already, sheesh .. by torpor · · Score: 1

    I won't mind your property being tracked, any way you want to, while its in my posession, as long as it gets me on the plane and outta your hokey country .. so an RFIDPass would work, in my opinion.

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  30. Mature Passengers Please Note: by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 1

    When your tag begins to flash it means your LastDay has come, and it's off to the SleepShop with you.

    1. Re:Mature Passengers Please Note: by Rick17JJ · · Score: 1

      They could send electric shocks to selected passengers as punishment. There was an old Star Treck episode where everyone on a spaceship had to wear unremovable punishment collars. A computer controlled everyone and could send punishment shocks to anyone. Any vistor to the spaceship also had to wear a collar and would immediately be punished as a demonstration so that they would properly fear the computer.

  31. Alternative RFID by Tandoori+Haggis · · Score: 1

    How about tags that cannot be so easily swapped? RFID tags could be placed on the passengers forehead with glue that can only be removed after 12 hours or maybe with a glue disolving, tag removing gun.

    Or how about RFID clothing. Passengers normally wear clothes, which, lets face it, could be composed of explosive or accelerant fibres, or stuff that decomposes in to toxic gas after 3 hours. So, build a load of changing rooms at each airport and exchange the passengers clothes for a type approved travel suit, with enhanced safety features, like a built in smoke hood, reflective patches and of course, RFID tags to help rescue them in an emergency.

    The passengers own clothes would be scanned for dangerous substances, drugs, etc before sealing in fire retardant bags for stowage on the flight.

    If the passenger looks like they could be dangerous, like they might overpower someone with their hands, they could be tranquilised prior to flight.

    Thinking laterally, why not combine some of these ideas?

    Anethetise passengers, strip them down, scan them, pack them in fire retardant survival packs, then load them on to a cargo plane. Problem solved.

    --
    My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
    1. Re:Alternative RFID by stevey · · Score: 1
      Anethetise passengers, strip them down, scan them, pack them in fire retardant survival packs, then load them on to a cargo plane. Problem solved.

      Just like the transportation we see in the commercial "airliner" in The Fifth Element?

      I actually thought that was very cool. Get onboard, go to sleep, and wake up when you've arrived.

      Sitting idle on an 11 hour flight must be one of the dullest times I've ever spent in my life. Especially if we keep having more and more restrictions placed on us. The temporary "no food", and "no books" restrictions earlier this year made me pleased I'll not have to fly anywhere distant soon.

    2. Re:Alternative RFID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After 3 hours on a plane, I decompose into toxic gas, you insensitive clod.

    3. Re:Alternative RFID by rHBa · · Score: 1

      This would solve the problem of passengers whose necks are thicker than their head (wrestlers, body builders, AOL customers etc). As all of the above could be considered a danger to humanity they would be safely unconcious in the back of the plane.

    4. Re:Alternative RFID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I actually thought that was very cool. Get onboard, go to sleep, and wake up when you've arrived.


      Except that anaesthetics, sedatives and soporifics are unsafe for a significant number of people, leading to side effects ranging from the serious to the fatal.

      Moreover, even those that are safe have a variable elimination half-life. Matching that closely to the duration of the flight is going to be tricky. Do you want your flight attendants to give you a new jab if you seem to be waking up? What are they supposed to do if you are still unconscious upon arrival?

      There are other nagging details too like the fact that metabolism does not stop while you are unconscious. What should be done about urination, feces, and hydration?

      Finally, there is a huge safety issue: if you are sedated or unconscious during an otherwise survivable accident, you're probably going to die.
  32. I am reminded of the insults... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...all the privacy advocates (including myself) got some years ago when this RFID tracking chip started taking off. I know I was accused of being a "luddite" and being "against technology" because I warned that this tech would eventually be used to tag and track humans (it will be eventually, with a permanent mandated-by-law microchip implant or multiple implants, it's coming and you know it). We were told "RFID is only good for a range of an inch or something, it isn't even possible to track humans n00b, that's a conspiracy theory" and similar pro big brother astroturfing like that.

    Anyway, here ya go, up to tens of meters now and that is only what they admit to in public, just more evidence to show that you really need to pay attention to the privacy people when they give you something to look at and issue a warning. And stop with the knee jerk automatic defense of anything new just because it is new, that's just *stupid*. You need to do a cost/benefit/risk analysis. This tech was just so obviously risky. And you are going to eat it raw because you embraced it early on instead of fighting against it. You put in place nothing to counter any bad use of the tech, nothing at all.

        Just because tech is new and shiny doesn't mean it is long range good for humanity. RFID might be good for business, but if you haven't noticed, governments and large corporations (the same thing anymore, corporofascism=globalism) are existing with the notion that you are their complete business property to do with as they please. Data mining? It's their data, not yours, even if it came from your actions, because they own you, because you don't care. Do you get it yet? How do you like being cattle?

        Want another warning or two? Even if you don't here they are. Nanoparticles in the environment, and especially chimeric biological research. The latter will cause hell on earth. There are no safeguards at all of any practicality in existence for this technology. It will be..a problem eventually. And you'll wonder why humans were so short sighted.

    Technology evolution has to match social evolution or it gets used maliciously and humanity suffers. Learn from history or repeat, those are your only options.

  33. In other news, Sales of Lead Lined Bags Soar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder what effect the sort of bags designed to keep film (remember that?) from being damaged by X-rays will have on these devices?

    And will magnets become banned devices from hand luggage?

    I made a personal decision some time ago regarding RFID tags. I will destroy and/or neutralise any that I find in anything I buy. I used to but no longer shop at ASDA(walmart in the UK) as they seem to be in the forefront of this technology.
    Other people can make their own decisions about the use of this technology as I have made mine.

    Buy with Cash and foil the data gatherers!

  34. Makes it easier for the terrorist by rollingcalf · · Score: 1

    The tag provides a convenient decoy mechanism for the terrorists. Drop/hide the tag somewhere or give it to somebody else, and the authorities tracking the RFIDs will think they're in one particular place when they're really somewhere else.

    --
    ---------
    There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
  35. Step 1: tag 'em by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 1
  36. Dogs by joaommp · · Score: 1

    I've heard about being treated like a dog at airports, now they'll just make it official, collar and all.

  37. Civil liberties down the drain by Raisey-raison · · Score: 1

    Seriously is there no civil liberty that we are allowed to keep. I know DC and Chicago want CCTV on all their streets and many other cities are following. The feds want to be able to phone tap at will. Trial by jury is sinking away. Defendants rights are also going south. We will never get these rights back. Once gone nobody will return them..... I fume every time I hear another one of these stories. There also seems to be another sinister subtext: That the constitution is just a bit of paper. And no longer will it really provide de fefacto protections.....

  38. my dog has a tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my dog carries an identification chip

    i'm his owner, and every computer can tell you that

    love is the answer
    control is bad for you~

  39. oh those pesky little details... by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the article vaguely and briefly states that 'The issue of infringement of civil liberties will also be key,' but doesn't bother to go into any pesky details."

    That's because the people setting all this up consider "civil liberties" to be one of those "pesky details".

    Civil Liberties is not a set of rules that inconvenience you, that you should work to find ways around. If you are trying to find ways around laws designed to protect the public from abuse, you are not assulting the law, you are assulting the principles and ideals that the law was made for, and endangering those people whom those laws are designed to protect.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  40. Hmmm.... by oofoe · · Score: 1

    Perhaps they should rig the tags so they explode if the wearer tries to remove them.

    --
    Curse you plastic mold maker!
    1. Re:Hmmm.... by $0.02 · · Score: 1

      Then all the terrorist needs to do is to try to remove them in the middle of the flight.

      --
      If enithin kan gow rong it whil. (Murfey)
  41. The tag isn't so bad... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    What I really hate is how they always have to shoot you with a tranquilizer dart, first.

    The good news is that this will allow us to learn about the migratory patterns of airline passengers, so maybe we can get ahead of them and into position to photograph their mating rituals.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  42. I wonder.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..if they will just put the rfid tag in the Boarding pass,
    which you are more likely to carry around with you at an
    airport after you have checked in. A boarding pass is not
    something you would flush down the toilet, as you need it
    anyway to get on a plane.

  43. You should've seen ver 1.0 by Lactoso · · Score: 1
    "If their maximum range is only 20 meters, I would certainly hope they can be accurate to within 1."
    The first version's range was 20 meters as well, but the accuracy was only 19 meters. So on the display you just saw a big red circle that would oscillate slightly and occasionally disappear...
    1. Re:You should've seen ver 1.0 by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Mwehehe, virtual +1 funny (insightful).

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    2. Re:You should've seen ver 1.0 by Lactoso · · Score: 1

      Thanks! It's nice to have popular support even when the Academy forsakes me...

  44. BS meter spiked by Fishbulb · · Score: 1

    Security is an illusion created by those who would pilfer your wallet.
    You are not safe, and no one can make you safe. Once you accept that you attain a level of freedom you never knew existed.

    1. Re:BS meter spiked by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Safe from what?

      I've never smoked, drank, taken drugs nor voted Republican. It's all those other people I'm scared of.....

  45. Yeah, real funny... by Lactoso · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's see how funny it is once the terrorists roll out their new plot......"The PacMan Initiative"

    1. Re:Yeah, real funny... by aplusjimages · · Score: 2, Funny

      FBI: "Can you print me out a copy of the screen so I can show the president?"
      Airport Security: "Sure. Here you go."

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
  46. What about this? by kernelistic · · Score: 1

    If they are so concerned about passengers exchanging or placing collars in the trash in the sterile area, why don't they just embed the RFID tag in the boarding pass itself? The paper has the person's name on it, and you surely wouldn't want to trade that with a stranger, would you? After all, you can't get on your flight without it!

  47. Slaves wear collars. Kneel for yours, bitch. by gd23ka · · Score: 1

    It's not that they would hide it somewhere in the plane tickets or give people an
    'Airport Access Card' or something. No, this is something that goes around the neck
    like a noose or a slave collars - which is what it is.

    I guess by now a dozen people have already screamed possibly ALL-CAPS into the discussion with fury over
    this, but this is really just the beginning. They were talking about implanting you
    with an RFID chip at the hospital in order for you to get further treatment ("oh and
    of course better treatment that would purportedly not be possible without being able to
    swipe a scanner over you to get your ID). Now it's airports and oh it already has
    happened in US school (nurseries of the future obedient serfs of America) many times over.

    I'm not kidding you, flamebaiting, trolling, you, godwinning you or whatever else you
    might think for you who this is hard to swallow. For me it's being forced to wear something
    around my neck that can make them track and monitor even the slightest twitch I make
    what is too hard to swallow.

  48. The Running Man by Potatomasher · · Score: 1

    ... and if anyone tries to leave the airport or enter restricted areas, the collars explode !

    --
    A million monkeys and this is the best sig they could come up with...
  49. You are talking out of your arse, sir by CaptainZapp · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    Budapest may not be the worlds busyest airport by a long shot, but talking about a few dozen passengers a day is just idiotic. Even if you engage a bit in hyperbole, you come out looking like a complete, utter moron.

    As a matter of fact: BUD served roughly 8'000'000 passengers in 2005 and 4'682'163 up and including the month of July in 2006, which translates to roughly 22'000 passengers a day. It took me a whopping 20 seconds to find those statistics with a Google search.

    I wouldn't even bother with a troll like you, but this has so much the reek of typical US arrogance, where the rest of the world is stuck in the middle ages and can be glad if they don't have to ride their horse carriage for longer then 20 minutes to the public toiletry center if they want to take a dump.

    --
    ich bin der musikant

    mit taschenrechner in der hand

    kraftwerk

    1. Re:You are talking out of your arse, sir by DrJokepu · · Score: 1

      Debrecen Airport (DEB) != Budapest Airport (BUD). TFA is about DEB, a small county airport which serves only 2-3 scheduled flights a day, most of them are domestic (Schedule: http://www.airportdebrecen.hu/flights). So I have to say I agree with the original poster, although I guess the general incompetence of my compatriots assures that there will be no working RFID system at DEB in the next few (hundred) years, so it's a little early to put on a tinfoil hat.

  50. beep beep by pizzach · · Score: 1

    So, is the thing going to panic and start beeping if you take it off? Better yet, if the computer uses an algorithm to detect suspicious movement, it should start making you beep like a car alarm! (The only way to make it stop is by up,up,down,down,left,right,left,right,a,b,start.)

    On a side note, how are you going to get little kids to wear this?

    --
    Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
  51. What rights? by volkris · · Score: 1

    People's rights? What rights?

    The airport isn't yours. When you walk into an airport you have to agree to abide by the rules established by the owner of the airport. You have no right to demand that they be changed. Feel free to establish rules in your own house, but when you enter someone else's property you abide by their rules.

    You have no more right to avoid the airport's tracking requirements than you'd have to demand free flights or free meals at their overpriced sandwich bars.

    I'm sorry you may not like it, but owner's rights trump this sort of misguided "privacy rights" demand any day.

    1. Re:What rights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The airport isn't yours.

      The hell it isn't. I paid for it (albiet at the point of a gun).
      It's called TAXES, you ignorant moron.

    2. Re:What rights? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Thank volkris for the NEOCON/FASCIST point of view - always a necessity today.

      Whoops, I seem to recall the FAA is paid for by the ta payers...I seem to recall the ARTCC system is paid for by the taxpayers...I seem to recall the communications - and a multitude of other systems - were subsidized by the taxpayers. I also seem to recall the various airports were originally built with much taxpayer monies....

    3. Re:What rights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      People's rights? What rights?

      The airport isn't yours. [...]
      In case you were unaware, what with your head being shoved so far up your ass and all, the government maintains a monopoly on air travel. You can't just go open up your own airport with your own rules, thus invalidating your iditioc argument that these are just private rules. They are government rules, and, as citizens in a democracy, the people most certainly have a right to demand that the rules are to their liking.

      Sorry if you we're just being ironic and I missed it. I hope you're really not this ignorant and unthinking.
    4. Re:What rights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it the the owner of the airport(s) or the government that is having these installed? I was thinking the government....

    5. Re:What rights? by multiplexo · · Score: 1
      Hey bitch, which privately owned airports are we talking about? The airport 10 miles from my house, SeaTac, is owned by the local port authority, a public agency whose officials are elected, most airports of any significant size are publicly owned. As an aside it always amazes me how many so called 'libertarians' will accept and advocate and advance assholish and fascistic behavior on the part of private property owners while shitting their "Hello Ayn Rand" panties if the government behaves the same way."

      Oh, and despite your Ayn Rand fantasies to the contrary the fact that you own a piece of property, say an airport, doesn't mean that you can do anything you like, if you don't believe me try setting up your own privately owned airport (good luck) and then, once you have it set up, post a sign saying "No niggers, kikes, spics, wops, japs, chinks, gooks" allowed and see how long you stay in business. Perhaps in Libertard fantasy land you get to do this, but we don't live in Libertard fantasy land (or Christard fantasy land or Marxist-Leninist-Tard fantasy land) we live in this imperfect and dirty place called "the real world" where gangs of unruly facts have a nasty way of ganging up to murder beautiful theories.

      --
      cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
    6. Re:What rights? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Damn, multiplexo, your response-post was far superior to mine...I bow before the master!

    7. Re:What rights? by volkris · · Score: 1

      All of that is irrelevant. Once you give someone something, it's theirs man. You have no claim on their property just because it was once theirs.

    8. Re:What rights? by volkris · · Score: 1

      Completely irrelevant. Even if the airports are publicly owned you still can't just walk in and do whatever you want. The simple fact is that public owned airports are owned by 'the people' not you. You still don't own this property, so you still can't demand rights on it.

      It's quite simple.

  52. Done before... by BACPro · · Score: 1

    This was done a couple of times on the orignal Star Trek.

    It didn't turn out too well as I recall.

  53. Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not about security, it's about making people who have absolutely no ill-intent feel sufficiently surveiled and inconvenienced so that they have the illusion of security.

    It's no different than the post 9-11 issue where all of a sudden cuticle scissors are a dangerous weapon of terrorism. You take enough pen knives and toenail clippers away from people and they'll automatically come to the conclusion that if you're wasting their time on the little stuff, you must REALLY be paying attention to the bigger vulnerabilities, which given the energy wasted on the little stuff is not only not the case, but very much the opposite of what is happening.

    People don't kill people, hair gel kills people.

  54. It explodes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They wont, because the dog collar cant be removed without it exploding and blowing your head off.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale

  55. Hooray for Academia's Security Pork Barrel! by Catmeat · · Score: 1

    1) Develop some idea...
    2) Devise some bizarre, convoluted and obscure way it could be applied to "security" - extreme hand waving is obligatory.
    3) Stand by while it starts to rain money on your research group courtesy of gullible government departments, research councils and investors.
    4) Don't miss any sleep worrying about exactly what terrorist attack scenario would be averted by this technology. Or whether you are, in fact, plugging a security hole that doesn't exist.
    5) Next month, when the cause de jour has shifted to, say for example, back to kiddie-porn, claim your technology is will be the panacia for that - go back to (2).

  56. Uups by CaptainZapp · · Score: 1
    OK, I hang my head in shame and apologise, then.

    But the question is really: Why would you need such a technology for an airport where the waiting room also functions as check in, security check and airport bar (granted, I am talkin out of my arse here).

    --
    ich bin der musikant

    mit taschenrechner in der hand

    kraftwerk

  57. How Soon Before... by SRA8 · · Score: 1

    ...they want to do this not just in airports but everywhere? (or just in major cities to start with, since you'd need receivers.) I dont disagree with what they are doing. I disagree with where it will lead us.

  58. Would I look suspicious... by Honest+Olaf · · Score: 1

    ... with a DIFRWEAR wallet hanging around my neck?

  59. Hardley Boys by sl0play · · Score: 1

    But we will finally know the mastermind behind 9/11 when they track down the dot that dropped a fudge dragon in the urinal.

    --
    Hi Super Nintendo Chalmers! - Ralph Wiggum
  60. Redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will those of us who received little radio implants at birth, also need to also get these?

  61. Ingest it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put the RFID inside an ingestable capsule. Make the passengers take it. Come on, its one pill. By taking one pill you are keeping our country safe. You don't support the terrorists, do you?

    Will it be foolproof? Who cares. As long as it appears to be to joe traveller, that's enough.

    I tell you tho, if this is implemented it will be months before it's added to govt buildings, and then you are right on the slippery slope.

  62. Ahhh, those old slave galley ship days by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    I remember this stuff from the old days: those slave galley ship times. we had to wear collars with a rope attached to it (boy oh boy, those ropes sure did smell and chafe) and the overseer would give it a good yank every time one of us fell asleep at the oar.

    Of course, the down side was that someone's neck would get broken from time to time. In a really labor-intensive job like slave ship rower, you need your labor.

    Management, they never change......

  63. At this point by Monoliath · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...I'm willing to use more inconvenient and lengthy modes of travel to avoid such a ridiculously dehumanizing practice such as this. If I am in need of travel to the USA from another country and the given airport employs this method, I will travel by boat and adjust my schedule as needed. If I am in need of travel within the USA and the given airport/s employ this method, I will travel by bus. I will not accept this kind of treatment from any organization for simply for the sake of safer / lower risk travel. I would much rather just die in a hijacked plane crash, or a boat sinking, or a train derailing, than be treated like a tagged animal. I was quite happy with the level of risk involved with flying prior to this kind of nonsense.

    1. Re:At this point by witte · · Score: 1

      Hmm... suspicious behaviour.

    2. Re:At this point by Monoliath · · Score: 1

      Of course it is.

      Protecting your born-right to feel like a living human being and not a machine in these times marks you as a radical / terrorist.

  64. Re:Wouldn't this be a little late? Sales, man SALE by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    S....

    1. Don't kill off the SALES man! This is the fine work of government to RFP for bids. Lockheed can win global contracts and then farm them out to their privileged few subcontractors.

    2. I suspect the anti-tamper feature will incorporate some sort of stun mechanism.

    3. Imagine being pulled into an on-site interrogation room and being asked:

    - WHY did you visit the bathrooms 13 times. WHY THOSE 13?
    - WHY did you hug THOSE two people? Do you know they hugged 3 others elsewhere in the airport?

    4. Maybe they should design the collars to be more like harnesses. Then, tie together everyone on the same flights, like kids on a field trip.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  65. not the goal.. by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    blowing a couple hundred people even is not a big deal.

    everyone rationalizes it as 'shit'

    blow a $300 to $600 million plane, 300 people, and everyone goes HOLY SHIT that could have been me- and it is beyond my control- and flying drops off A WHOLE LOT over the next few months--....

    it's a BIG difference

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:not the goal.. by booch · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if you blow up 500 people in an airport, people in their minds think "holy shit, they almost blew up a plane, and killed 2 plane's worth of people". If the terrorists' only intent was to kill Americans, they'd just invest in cigarette advertising.

      --
      Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
  66. How About... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Freedom? Remember that option? No? Oh...

    Time for the magyars to finish what they started last month.

    Anarchia már!

  67. Who's aggitating my dots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Airport Security Supervisor: "Yes how can I help you?"
    FBI: "We're looking for terrorists."
    Airport Security Supervisor: "Suspicious persons have blue dots."
    FBI: "Blue dots."
    Airport Security Supervisor: "Yes blue dots. Security guards have red dots, and everyone else is yellow."
    FBI: "I see" *Looks at screen* "Hey there's a blue dot, send the red dots after it."
    Airport Security Supervisor: "We don't aggitate the dots."
    BILLOFRIGHTS: "Who's aggitating my dots? You aggitating my dots?"
    FBI: "Actually, these aren't your dots. As you can see here." *hands BoR a copy of PATRIOT ACT* "By the way you're scan blue, you're under arrest."
    BILLOFRIGHTS: "But I'm an american."
    FBI: <sarcasm> "Of course you're an american." </sarcasm>

    1. Re:Who's aggitating my dots? by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      The general low quality of that post makes me think evil wins because good has shitty marketing.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    2. Re:Who's aggitating my dots? by Cobralisk · · Score: 1

      Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb.
      -Dark Helmet

      --
      Waiting for ad.doubleclick.net...
  68. "Security" is a misnomer by cicho · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The authorities should drop the veil altogether and quit using the word "security", because security is not what such measures are about. _We_ (whoever would object to wearing a dog collar at the airport or having their personal information freely shared with foreign intelligence agencies just because you're getting on a plane) should quit using that word too, because we're giving them a free ride.

    The word is enforcement. Better still, control. These measures are all designed to control the population, not to ensure its security.

    --
    "Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
  69. How can they afford this? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    How will they afford this once people stop flying through their airport because of the inconvenience and the dislike of being treated like an animal?

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    1. Re:How can they afford this? by tftp · · Score: 1
      How can the people "stop flying through their airport" if that's the only way to their destination? If your employer wants you to attend a business meeting, can you say "no" ? can you say "yes, but I need a month to drive there and back, and $10,000 for fuel and other expenses" ?

      Fact is, air travel is essential to US businesses because of distances between locations. Travel by train or car will take forever, and you can't afford that. A tiniest private airplane will cost you a million dollars, and it is slow (3-4 times as slow as a commercial airliner) and it is very noisy, and you need a pilot unless you can qualify yourself (likely you can't, the requirements are difficult to meet and the skills are very different from what you normally do for a living.)

  70. Air travel will fundamentally change by deltacephei · · Score: 1

    This is all part of a disturbing trend.

    Commercial air travel will become the stinky greyhound transport of economically disadvantaged masses. People with money and corporations will increasingly opt out and buy private jets causing a permanent shift in the conmercial air travel market. We'll end up with only a few carriers, and depending on how fuel prices change, vis worldwide oil supply, those carriers may end up being heavily subsidized by governments (someone correct me if this is already happening to some degree).

    1. Re:Air travel will fundamentally change by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      afaik all of the "major" airlines in the US are government subsidized; none have posted an actual profit since 9/11, and very few managed in the decades preceeding it. They call it a "bailout" and they do it at irregular intervals (as opposed to an official and regular subsidy) but it's really the same thing that happened to AMTRAK. The airlines have found a business model that does not require them to actually attract customers.

      Pretty much everything you describe has already happened. fully.

      Except that there are still regional carriers a la southwest that post profits. If the government can restrain its natural desire to meddle with things that are changing, we'll end up with a far more fractured, lean airline industry with many small carriers on thousands of direct, small-airport to small-airport routes. Which coincidentally would obviate the need for massive and unwieldy airport security schemes.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  71. Happened loonnnng before... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    I fly out of Washington National and Dulles pretty regularly. I have yet to feel even 1/10th as inconvenienced by the security protocols as at London Heathrow or Rome Fiumicino 25 years ago.

    1. Re:Happened loonnnng before... by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

      So therefore we should welcome our new, privacy-invading overlords, until it gets 10x worse, THEN complain?

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    2. Re:Happened loonnnng before... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

      No, you should realize that your privacy is not truly being invaded to any significant degree more than it already was decades ago.

  72. jack vance by Spaham · · Score: 1

    reminds me of a novel from Jack Vance (can't remember the title), where people wore 'torques' that let a despotic leader track their whereabouts.
    The only difference was that the necklace would explode when tampered with...
    I guess it's just a small technological hurdle to overcome :)

  73. What about its benefits? by Tryptek · · Score: 1

    There's been alot of discussion on the negative impact that these chips have but what about the usefulness of the technology? 1. Being able to locate passengers in areas that are off-limits 2. In the event of a catastrophy being able to find passengers that are missing or potentially injured and being able to get there quicker to potentially save a life. 3. Locating lost children 4. Making sure the amount of passengers that are checked in / checked out / boarded at any time eliminating any discrepancies should a problem arise 5. From a marketer's perspective - selling the data to the shops / food stands inside. Selling the data to advertisers and designating high value areas where there is the most traffic. 6. If there is a problem, checking that passenger's last known whereabouts to see what they were doing from the moment they checked in. If they met with airport staff posing as an insider prior to boarding etc. With that information, it could lead to the quicker arrest and breakup of other terrorist cells.

    1. Re:What about its benefits? by multiplexo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Well let's beat the shit out of your fucking stupid arguments, one by one by one.

      1. Being able to locate passengers in areas that are off-limits

      Sounds good on the surface, in reality it's really fucking stupid and it's obvious that you have no idea of how security works. Where I work we wear keycard badges and have access controlled areas (labs, machine rooms, etc) that the badges will let you into. If you are in one of these areas and you see someone who doesn't have a badge and who you don't know you're supposed to ask who they are and what they are doing there, I'm certainly going to do this if I find someone in my machine room and I don't know who they are and they don't have a badge. At the airport you do the same thing, you restrict access to certain areas and you require anyone who works in those areas to wear a badge. Anyone who doesn't have a badge isn't supposed to be there. Passengers shouldn't ever be able to get into areas that are off-limits and placing guards at the access points of the restricted areas and having a few that roam the restricted areas checking up on things is a cheaper, less intrusive and more effective than tagging everyone and implemeting ubiquitous surveillance. Also all someone has to do is take this tag off, in which case your magical locating system doesn't work any more, unless of course you're advocating shoving them up everyone's ass or something.

      2. In the event of a catastrophy sic being able to find passengers that are missing or potentially injured and being able to get there quicker to potentially save a life.

      Sounds nice, but it's blatantly stupid. What kind of catastrophe are we talking about here? Airports are limited areas, if something bad happens finding people is going to be pretty easy, unless of course it's a WTC style collapse, in which case all that those RFID tags are going to tell you is that you've got a lot of corpses in the rubble. Also if something really bad happens any conscientious group of rescuers is going to have to check the whole area anyways in case someone's RFID tag was damaged or torn from their body.

      3. Locating lost children

      I'm not wearing a dog collar so that some breeder can find his fucking kids. Keep an eye on your fucking brat and stop trying to restrict my freedom or take away my dignity by saying "it's for the children".

      4. Making sure the amount of passengers that are checked in / checked out / boarded at any time eliminating any discrepancies should a problem arise.

      We already have this. Well we don't in the US, but that's because our airport security is shit, despite TSA's claims to the contrary. But if you fly through London Heathrow or Munich or Frankfurt or Schiphol your bags don't get on the plane unless you're on the plane. If you are late boarding the plane, and I've had a couple of close calls at LHR, your bags will end up staying at the airport and will go out on the next flight. This is the biggest security threat we have, bombs in luggage, not knowing where everyone is at all times. Implementing positive bag matching would do a lot more to improve secuirty than requirinhg everyone to wear an RFID dog collar.

      5) From a marketer's perspective - selling the data to the shops / food stands inside. Selling the data to advertisers and designating high value areas where there is the most traffic.

      Marketers are shit and should be rounded up and sent to death camps, anyone who advocates making me wear an RFID dog collar so it's easier for marketers to track me and get data about me without my consent should be gut shot and left to die on a lonely stretch of desert highway on a hot summer's day.

      6. If there is a problem, checking that passenger's last known whereabouts to see what they were doing from the moment they checked in. If they met with airport staff posing as an insider prior to boarding etc. With that information, it could lead to the quicker arrest and breakup of other terrorist cells.

      Great, ex post facto law enforce

      --
      cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
    2. Re:What about its benefits? by Tryptek · · Score: 1

      you obviously have issues with conducting a debate without berating the person posting from the other side of the coin. Anyhow onto my responses.

      Point 1
      There has been many stories of people ending up ON the runway without being stopped by law enforcement or your badge holders. If someone removes the tag - if you had read the article you would have known that the system would be alerted to such removal. Never give the system more credit than it should. We know how it should work, but does it work as effortlessly. I doubt it.

      Point 2
      You really haven't refuted this point AT ALL. The argument still stands - in the event of a panic or crises the tags would certainly be helpful in getting to a person emergency aid quickly barring structural collapse. In the event that does happen, maybe it comes as a shock to you but people have been found to be alive under rubble.

      Point 3
      What the hell is this? Take care of your brat and stop restricting my freedom? The argument is the benefit of RFID in this scenario. You haven't refuted this one as well. Seems to be a common theme with you now.

      Point 4
      RFID is cost effective. The more bureacracy you add to the mix only complicates the issue. You haven't given an alternative idea as to how this could work more efficiently.

      Point 5
      If the information is out there someone is going to buy it. This makes technology like RFID so appealing. Your choice 'Find another airport'. I wouldn't put it past an airport to try and exploit or any corporate entity to try and exploit this for monetary gain if it could help pay for the system without additional expense.

      Point 6
      Listen genius, its not so stupid when you start to break it down. Its called process of elimination. Detectives use it in their line of business all the time. Any variable that could potentially come in play must be examined. How can you tell if staff and passenger interactions were innocuous? Well now that you have that information based on knowing the whereabouts of the passenger - maybe you can eliminate that possibility.

      Try and think about all the angles before you rush off in a blind rage to type another response.

    3. Re:What about its benefits? by deltacephei · · Score: 1

      you obviously have issues with conducting a debate without berating the person posting from the other side of the coin

      Probably because you have completely missed the main point and seem woefully misinformed on the potential abuses that such a system can have and evolve into.

      There has been many stories of people ending up ON the runway without being stopped by law enforcement or your badge holders. If someone removes the tag - if you had read the article you would have known that the system would be alerted to such removal. Never give the system more credit than it should. We know how it should work, but does it work as effortlessly. I doubt it.

      Exactly how many stories? This assertion requires more substantiation. And you would add more technology rather than addressing the root cause of people not doing their jobs correctly? The larger point for you to think about is never give people more credit than you should. Invasive systems can and will be abused by small minded people on power trips.

      What the hell is this? Take care of your brat and stop restricting my freedom? The argument is the benefit of RFID in this scenario. You haven't refuted this one as well. Seems to be a common theme with you now.

      Yes, that's right. I have children. It is my responsibility to keep them safe in a public place at all times. It is not the legal responsibility of any other airport patron. Other patrons without children have the right to pass through an airport without undue burden. Further I question any parent who relies on tracking to do their job for them. That is not parenting, it's lameness and laziness. But even if some parents would want this, others will not. You're also missing the point that it's an emotional ruse commonly used now to push obnoxious legislation - this "think of the children" is quite convenient as it immediately labels anyone questioning a decision or idea as anti-child. That's not fair debate. And, further, speaking of fair debate if you're going to entreat someone to not use an ad-hominen attack then you better be prepared to not do so yourself. Your last sentence is clearly that.

      RFID is cost effective. The more bureacracy you add to the mix only complicates the issue. You haven't given an alternative idea as to how this could work more efficiently

      Who says we need any alternative? You haven't made a cogent argument why this is necessary at all. Do you honestly think this system is going to catch a terrorist? Baloney. Ever read what the majority of the camera watchers do in London with all their CCTVs? Watch chicks. That's right, it's a great system for horny lonely guys sitting in cold control rooms to check out women and track them.

      If the information is out there someone is going to buy it.

      And this doesn't bother you? It does in fact bother a lot of people. It is quite bothersome to now be filmed just to buy a quart of milk. It's quite bothersome to have Amazon suggesting things to me. It's quite bothersome to feel watched, exploited and manipulated. A lot of people really don't want personalized behavioral profiles exploited with advertising and product placement.

      Listen genius, its not so stupid when you start to break it down. Its called process of elimination. Detectives use it in their line of business all the time. Any variable that could potentially come in play must be examined. How can you tell if staff and passenger interactions were innocuous? Well now that you have that information based on knowing the whereabouts of the passenger - maybe you can eliminate that possibility.

      Again, you're way overblown here on personal attack. The suggestion of examining any variable is untenable for several reasons. This is not going to be possible real time for millions of people passing through airports. Human behavoir is noisy and unpredictable, not some convenient set of data points that easily lend themselves

    4. Re:What about its benefits? by Memnos · · Score: 1
      The parent poster appears to actually "get it", whereas the GP is still in a naive world where he/she has never been on the unpleasant end of official scrutiny. Also:

      Personal Information for Sale:

      I'll find yours GP and see how you like it spread far and wide. You would be surprised at what I can find in my position.

      "Think of the Children" - "Stop the Terrorists at All Costs":

      I hate to trot this quote out again but some people need to be hit with a 2x4 to understand:

      "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin

      Timeworn and perhaps overused, but true. Governments rarely concede powers that they have gained over the populace. Read some history GP dolt. Read about "water societies" such as Egypt, in which the very means of life were controlled by the state. You do NOT want to go there.

      Murphy's Law:

      Perhaps the GP is an engineer, or technical, and so could relate to this. Anything that can go wrong, eventually will. This is more true for human political systems than it is for physical systems, because those in a position to do so will skew probability for the worse, for their own interests, not yours. Respond with some examples from past cultures of where this has NOT happened, if you can.

      Efficacy:

      Negligible.

      Privacy:

      Numerous studies (Google them) have shown that a decreased perception of privacy has a deleterious effect on mental and physical well-being, not to mention a constricting effect on freedom of expression (which I believe was mentioned in some document of ours in the late 18th century, which we supposedly still hold dear.

      Technology:

      In earlier times we were somewhat inured against the flow of information about ourselves to large organizations, such as governments and coorporations. Technology has beaten down those barriers, and we therefore need stronger safeguards to shore them up.

      I could go on, but if you can't step back and think about it GP, there is really no point. I'll just put my effort into rising into the elite, and I'll be watching YOU.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
  74. Another egregrious abuse... by chonny69 · · Score: 1
    ... of the English language. IAL (I Am a Linguist) and, "A new technology is to be trialled" is a really bad example of back-formation and verb conjugation since the noun "to trial" from the verb "to try". And "will be" is means the same and is more efficient than saying "is to be."

    Saying "A new technology will be tried" is more cromulent than the original example.

  75. the mark by nanojath · · Score: 1

    ...and brings up such hurdles to the project as 'finding a way of ensuring the tags cannot be switched between passengers or removed without notification.

    It seems like you could easily enough implant these just beneath the skin of say the forehead, or the wrist.

    --

    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

    1. Re:the mark by dch24 · · Score: 1

      We will only do that if the serial number is 666.

  76. Don't worry, it's just a temporary measure. by WhatDoIKnow · · Score: 1

    Remember, you heard it hear on /. first:

    Within 30 years or so it will be possible to do this without any chip. With sufficient software, hardware (cameras? EEG?) and processing power, there is no reason a system couldn't be designed that would do this just by individual appearance and other unique characteristics.

    :wq

    1. Re:Don't worry, it's just a temporary measure. by ExFCER · · Score: 1

      Well said. We will be able to build a unique biological signature of each individual, based on the continuing need to enhance inoculation and vaccinations against any number of childhood diseases like terrorism; they will add a number of isotopes thus insuring that we understand three (3) things:

      1) Ignorance is Strength
      2) War is Peace
      3) Freedom is Slavery

  77. HM.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would that be something like these collars?

  78. A thought about Slaughter House 5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems that in the effort to maintain the "Security Level."
    the airlines have instituted the "Slaughter House" rules.

    Instead of all this "back steeping" wouldn't it be more
    productive, as in "body bags," that the airlines
    institute a clause that all attendees, i.e. passangers,
    loose all rights to, 1. citizenship, 2. human rights.

    In this way the airlines can claim all attendees fortunes,
    e.g. ticket fees, and deny an knowledge of the ticket
    holder.

    Doing so would allow for passangers to be "stripped,
    bagged and tagged" for delivery at the port of
    dissembarcation ... i.e. on the tar mat at said airport.

    Said "passangers" belongings can be confiscated by
    the airline without impunity. The airlines will be able
    to gain some ground in their financial standings.

    It would be much easier for the airlines to dump
    the "passangers," i.e. bodies, on the tar mat
    at the point of dissembarcation and not have to
    hire all the flight clerk idiots to man the counters.

    The dumped bodies, i.e. "passangers" will have the
    option of rotting in place, or be carted up and taken
    to a suitable dump for disposal.

    I can see the CEOs of AA, Delta and Northwest,
    dropping trousers and having a beat-off party!

    Dead bodies don't complain!

    Toodles

  79. Re:Have a reality check by sillybilly · · Score: 1

    I think it's more of an experiment on how far you can push people into indignity and how they put up with it and still live on. I expect everyone will be bitching, but in a special way. Hotheaded people don't get far. Maybe people will just avoid flying and drive or ride a train, simply because they dislike being collared like that, at least that's what I'd do, quiet resistance.

  80. Good idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that (a) it won't actually *achieve* anything (terrrsts tend to buy tickets just like everyone else), (b) it will piss some people off (although admittedly that could be amusing to see) and (c) it's an invasion of privacy (targetted advertising in 9,8,7,...).

    Apart from that, I'm excited!

  81. Sheeesh by PhotoGuy · · Score: 1
    Sheeesh, it's their airport, if you want to use it, play by their rules. You have to carry a ticket, and ID already: WHAT AN INVASION ON YOUR CIVIL LIBERTIES!!!

    Seriously, if this helps them locate the asshole that lumbers to the gate 10 minutes late because of that drink that took long to finish, holding up the whole flight, I'm all for it. If it helps them realize where bottlenecks are, all the better. If it can spot that someone wandered into a high security area intentionally or unintentionally, how is that anything but good? If it alerts them that I'm sitting in the wrong gate area (or wrong terminal!) for my flight, I think that's a good thing.

    Airports are all about moving passengers throughout their system and onto the plans in an efficient manner. If they can track the passengers better, it can only help in that goal.

    What are you worried about? That they will notice you went to the can ten times? That you are hanging around a female that isn't your wife? (Do you think they'd care, or bother?) There isn't exactly a lot of innocently incriminating things you can do in an airport that would be revealed by them knowing your location.

    --
    Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
  82. Oh, the opportunities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the tags can be removed by the wearer:
    (1) security observer: "Sir, Sir, there are 100's of men in the toilet."
    (2) like the old wife-swapping parties, or modern loyalty card games,
    chuck some tags in a pile and take one out. Instant anonymity.

    If they are collars that cannot removed, add security like the invisible dog fences -
    electric shock if you try to enter a "secured" area.

    Where is the successor to Monty Python when we need them?

  83. What right? by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    The right to move around on someone elses property, undetected?

    This is just a boarding pass whose location can be tracked.

  84. We have to track the herd! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cattle Tags :)

  85. Easy solution by the_olo · · Score: 1
    ...finding a way of ensuring the tags cannot be switched between passengers or removed without notification.

    That should be easy. Make the tags explode and blow the head off upon unauthorized removal attempt. Should be discouraging enough.