Disconnecting Completely While On Vacation?

vonsneerderhooten asks: "This summer, I took a week-long vacation, left my cell phone at home and enjoyed the liberation of being completely disconnected from the (working) world. Recently, I came upon an article stating that many people don't take vacations longer than a long weekend. Worse still, a majority are worrying about work, calling the office and checking e-mail. How far removed are you when on vacation? To what lengths will you go to make yourself (un)available?"

Comments

Weekends aren't vacations.

[dada21]

When I think of vacations, I think of vacating -- leaving something empty of... me! A weekend trip is not a vacation; it takes me about 24 hours after landing to fully appreciate that I've left. It takes me 24 hours before the take-off flight to mentally prepare myself for returning. That means 48 hours is the prep time each way, at least in my experience. I need at least 10 days to truly appreciate a vacation -- and that means no cell phone, e-mail or web.

I take trips all the time, at least 2-3 trips a month. I always take my cell and PDA with me, but I usually leave the web behind. If I am taking a short trip, it is non-web business related, and I write off as much as legally possible. But if I start jumping online, that business trip becomes inefficient for me, and I don't get my work done, so even with a write-off it is still a financial loss.

I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation. What prevents people from doing that? I hear it from friends who are overworked (usually because they are over-indebted): they can't leave because they'll miss something important at work. I never heard of this before because I always make sure that my future replacement in my position is trained for handling any emergencies when I am gone. I guess too many people are too protective of their position -- this usually means they see the future as a dead end or they see their abilities as plateaud. In this case, not taking a vacation really means they are just trying to hold ground.

I can't think of a single project that my expertise is needed on for the entire project, or even 50% of it. If you are good at handling emergencies, people will pay you just to be around holding their hand during non-emergencies. This is the opposite of expendable, and it also opens up your schedule for vacations -- real ones.

If your life doesn't allow for it, what are you doing even bothering to live? What is so important that a vacation would create a risk/reward ratio that is out of whack? For many, I think you have to look at lifestyle -- is your house so big that being out of work for one year will hurt you? Sell it. Are your monthly expenses so big that you can't pay them for 24 months with zero income? Sell things and learn to cut expenses. Is your budget so tight that when you do have time to take off, you have to pay for the trip on credit cards and it'll take 3-10 years of future income to cover your trip? start prioritizing what is important.

If I don't get 2-3 weeks of downtime each quarter, I am not efficient. Also, being away from work lets my customers know how much they need me when there ARE problems. The risk/reward ratio is very small -- little risk, and a huge reward from both sides: I'm personally rewarded by downtime, and I'm also rewarded if an emergency happens that I would be best at solving.

Life is way too short to focus only on working and buying a bigger house and a bigger car and a bigger TV or video game system. Even just 3 weeks a year of downtime is barely over 6% of the year -- a very meager idea of vacationing. Then again, I think many people give 10% to God, 30% to their employer, 4% to family, 6% to themselves and 50% to the State. I guess there's the prime problem.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[denebian devil]

I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation. What prevents people from doing that? I hear it from friends who are overworked (usually because they are over-indebted): they can't leave because they'll miss something important at work. I never heard of this before because I always make sure that my future replacement in my position is trained for handling any emergencies when I am gone. I guess too many people are too protective of their position -- this usually means they see the future as a dead end or they see their abilities as plateaud. In this case, not taking a vacation really means they are just trying to hold ground.

I think what usually prevents people from doing that is that most people do not receive 50 vacation days per year, which is what would approximately be required to take four 2-3 week vacations every year. Most people don't even get half that number of days, especially not until they either a) reach the upper echelons, or b) work at the same company for years/decades.

Lucky you!

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[gigne]

If your life doesn't allow for it, what are you doing even bothering to live?

Thanks for the encouragement, please excuse me while I hang myself.

Are your monthly expenses so big that you can't pay them for 24 months with zero income?

Is this the fabled 2 year buffer in the bank account? I don't know any one person who doesn't have to work the arse off to make enough money to live. I agree that some people spend more money than needed on non essential items, but competition in the market is so great that even cutting those out (internet/tv/phone) makes little difference. If I got rid of non-essentials, I would cut my (admittedly higher than average) income by little more than £100/m That would take me approx 18 years to make that two year buffer.

There are some eye opening statistics here http://www.poverty.org.uk/summary/key_facts.htm

Unless you earn the top brass money, you have to live as the cash flows in.

Back on topic... The above is related. People put so much emphasis on work because it is their lifeline to living. If you can afford to let your work ethic slip, then you either don't care about income, or are too rich to worry. When I go away I have to at least check my phone messages once a day, even with the trained monkey in my place things can still go wrong. It's a tragic fact of society that things need to be fixed yesterday, unfortunately this seeps into holiday time.

My 2p

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[dada21]

I think what usually prevents people from doing that is that most people do not receive 50 vacation days per year, which is what would approximately be required to take four 2-3 week vacations every year. Most people don't even get half that number of days, especially not until they either a) reach the upper echelons, or b) work at the same company for years/decades.

I'm sure you're right, which is why I said even just 2-3 weeks a year is a start, but most don't even take that (or use it in double-day short trips or "sick days"). That's one of the dilemmas of being a W2'd employee -- along with less write-offs, lower gross income, and a big bag of other shortfalls.

I prefer peaks and valleys in terms of work investment -- I'd rather do 6-60 hour weeks in a row and then cut back to 3-0 hour weeks (averaging to 9 40-hour weeks). The uptime of work means driving hard to beat deadlines, beat budget caps and end up being more efficient than whatever trade held me back. The downtime of the time-off means recovery in a few days, and the rest is like paradise no matter what I do. More time for family, more time for friends (who rarely have time), more time to write, more time to travel.

I understand that the typical W2 employee CAN'T do that, but why are most geeks still salaried??? I know this would turn into an OT thread, so someone should post an article to the editors for Ask Slashdot: Why aren't more geeks 1099'd? If another person says stability, I'll go nuts, because there are more contract jobs out there than salaried positions open. Especially if you are willing to travel (and get a great per-diem). Even more so if you're willing to travel internationally with a per-diem total that can exceed the work contract.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[dada21]

You pay too much in taxes, regulations, tariffs and other regulatory costs in the UK, so more people are poor. That's a fact that we don't see charts for.

I live in the US in what most would consider "substandard" to what the average Joe has. I sold my huge house and bought a few used (and fully depreciated) mobile homes (paid off). I sold my huge new cars and bought nice solid used ones (paid off). I downsized my utilities (more efficient windows and roof means lower energy bills, intelligent lighting means lower electrical bills, dumped cable for ondemand online). I raised my health insurance deductible for 5 years while socking away more than the deductible in gold and silver, so my health insurance is dirt cheap. I cook at home more than I eat out (unless I get comped for providing referrals for local restaurants). I probably live on 16% the cost of most people in my income level -- 84% of that savings goes to long term savings and short term vacations. My savings are semi-liquid (hard metal currency and some property) which keeps me from spending it stupidly.

I'm not thrifty, I'm just future-focused. There will come a day when I'll walk away from all that work and continue to live "substandard" but travel even more -- why bother with a 2500 square foot house when my 1000 square foot mobile homes throughout the country offer me huge savings over hotels, AND I can travel elsewhere with the money I saved not throwing 37 years of interest to the mortgage banks (30 year mortgage + 7 year average refinance to pay off).

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[IcyHando'Death]

Life is way too short to focus only on working and buying a bigger house and a bigger car and a bigger TV or video game system

With you right up until there ...

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

continue to live "substandard"

You put that in quotes, but for many people, living in used mobile homes (how old are they if they're fully deprecated?) is substandard living.

Being "future-focused" shouldn't have to mean stocking up on gold, food and ammo and waiting for civilization to collapse.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[duffbeer703]

The problem is systematic mismanagement. In today's world, if you're not fighting a fire, you're a slacker that needs to be removed. Most corporate-type employees live in a world a paranoia, fear and incompetence. Concepts like cross-training and delegating work are signs of weakness to many. Looking busy and in the loop is more important than reality.

I take 6 weeks of vacation a year, and rarely check email on the weekends unless I'm on-call. When I'm out, other people take on some of my duties. When other people are out, I do the same.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[gigne]

Agreed we have it pretty bad in the UK, and there are certain extreme lengths one can go to in saving money... unfortunately for me your case is not valid over here.

An cheap house costs 5x income. You get about 5 square feet to play with. We don't have mobile housing over here, the only real option is renting. If you rent a house you get more like 2 square feet of space.

There is a large drive over here in terms of efficiency. Being an island, it makes it expensive to import fuel. Fuel is expensive, and energy saving lightbulbs cheap.

Maybe I should consider a move to the US (after regime change, of course)

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[bhima]

People make their own decisions:

    They choose to accept 2 weeks per year holiday.
    They choose to work in an environment which will not allow their absence.
    They choose to consume to such an extent they are required to work the amount they work.
    They choose to purchase these things on credit so they are indebted to a third party.

I'll be the first to say that the capitalist system is virtually designed to create this situation but it is by no means the only way to live your life... or even the most desirable or healthy.

Getting away from such things can be the fastest way to healthy and happy life style.

Myself, I get around 100 days per year off and I wouldn't want any other way.

Re: Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

Arrogance.

You assume that the way you live your life is better than the way anyone else lives their life, and you are so sure your way is optimal that you can't fathom anything else.

I could stop there, but you'd just shake your pointy head and cluck your tongue, so here is an example.

I actually *like* working. Shock shock horror horror shock shock horror, I know, but some people who work a lot do it because they enjoy it. It *isn't* all about the money, or vacation (just another form of compensation, but keep telling yourself you are so different), but rather about enjoying themselves.

That doesn't mean I am not well paid, it doesn't mean I don't get good vacation (too good, I have to visit the in-laws more than I like), it doesn't mean I don't have a personal life or a hobby (before children, that is). But it does mean that I don't tell people their life choices are shit just because they differ from mine. But hey, if arrogance works for you, fuck off and die.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[PygmySurfer]

t takes me about 24 hours after landing to fully appreciate that I've left. It takes me 24 hours before the take-off flight to mentally prepare myself for returning

I feel sorry for you. As soon as I leave the office, I'm in vacation-mode. I'm especially saddened by the 24 hours preparing for return, why cut your vacation short? Get back into work mode on THEIR time, not yours.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[psmears]

You pay too much in taxes, regulations, tariffs and other regulatory costs in the UK, so more people are poor. That's a fact that we don't see charts for.

Really? Are you sure?

I'll admit that I haven't conducted a thorough survey, but a quick google for "poverty statistics uk us" would suggest otherwise...

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[ag0ny]

I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation. What prevents people from doing that?

Living in Japan, for example. I've got 11 days/year.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[gstoddart]

I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation.

Holy crap! What magical fun Universe do you live in where everyone gets 8-12 weeks of vacation per annum?

I live in Canada, and I've been at my job for 11+ years. I get four weeks per year. That's it. And, if I can't use it all in a fiscal year, I lose what I don't consume, so I don't have a chance of building up a bunch over a few years.

I'm sure the rest of us would dearly love to have 2-3 weeks per quarter to take a vacation, and the cash to go someplace and call it a real vacation. I would suggest that for the majority of people out there, that much vacation is a friggin' pipe dream!!

You are either really lucky, or really sheltered from the reality that the rest of us live in. I envy you!

Cheers

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[dada21]

You put that in quotes, but for many people, living in used mobile homes (how old are they if they're fully deprecated?) is substandard living.

Oldest is 1987 with an energy efficiency rating 100% better than a typical newer tract home. Newest is around 1993 or 1992 (can't recall). Some I paid ZERO for (walk-aways -- people had to move and I offered to get them out of the lot lease).

The key here is the definition of living. If you like being around your home and plan on retiring in it (not ON its future value), buy a "house." I personally like the freedom of changing if I need to, or if business/life warrants it. I also do not appreciate housing prices going up over time -- it is a game of inflation, not growing value.

Being "future-focused" shouldn't have to mean stocking up on gold, food and ammo and waiting for civilization to collapse.

Why do people sometimes think that is how I live? For me, future focused means trying to manage my time today so I have more time tomorrow to do what I want. I look at an efficient time preference as the #1 sign of wealth. I know that in my 20s, I could party it up. In my 30s, the body starts to slow down. Hit 40s, and death starts knocking (and even occurs for some). The 50s is when the body really starts giving out, and when you lose the efficiency in the market (I do believe that 30 year olds are often worth more to a market than 50 year olds because of adaptability and recent experience over lifetime of stuck-in-the-old-way experience). In the 60s, you're really feeling the heat (my mom hits 60 this year, my dad is 66, and they both are much slower than a decade ago). I have to balance my best work years with my best non-work years -- that means looking to the future as a focus for what I CAN do and what I'd WANT to do.

I'm sorry, but paying off a home for 37 years is not ownership, it is slavery to a smarter party. On a typical US$300,000 house with $50,000 down (most don't have that), you pay about US$19,000 in mortgage (6.5% fixed). US$16,200 of that is interest. Over the first ten years, you'll pay almost US$150,000 in interest alone. How is that ownership? Considering a 29% mortgage-to-gross ratio (which isn't standard, today), you'd have to pay US$65,500 to afford that loan, so in the first 10 years, over 2 years of your life is JUST in interest -- 20% of those work years. No thanks. That, to me, sounds fairly substandard in terms of freedom from stress and frustration.

It is no surprise to me that a lot of marriage problems start off with financial matters. It is no surprise to me that foreclosures are up 100-200% YOY in many regions. It is no surprise to me that many people lie about their equity-to-debt-to-income ratios. I'm not embarrassed about where I live, in fact I am proud that I can actually LIVE in terms of balancing work, recreation, family and faith. I'm pretty sure I give an equal amount to each, which to me gives me the stress-free life. The fact that there is savings on top of that, and some ability to wager some market risks (business ideas, etc), I think it is a super-standard way to live.

I'm not saying EVERYONE should live this way, I'm not saying it is the best way to live, but from the horror stories I hear from 90% of my friends and (younger) family, I can't understand why everyone wants to live the way they're living.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[NineNine]

What is so important that a vacation would create a risk/reward ratio that is out of whack?


You obviously have never started your own business. I own a retail business, and turning off my phone is simply not an issue.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[0jjjjjjjjjj0]

I like the multiple mobile-home theory. It's like a less expensive version of what excessively wealthy types do, having houses all over the place. The health insurance deductible is a no-brainer, I'm surprised they still sell $0-deductible insurances to the masses. You win twice when taking out the higher deductible insurance: You put the equivalent in a high-interest account and you end up with the interest (hey, $15 is better than $0) as well as a lower overall cost.

One of the more insightful things I've read on here.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[denebian devil]

People make their own decisions:
 
    They choose to accept 2 weeks per year holiday.
    They choose to work in an environment which will not allow their absence.
    They choose to consume to such an extent they are required to work the amount they work.
    They choose to purchase these things on credit so they are indebted to a third party.

I'll agree with you about over-consumption and overuse of credit, but that's not what's being discussed. As for your first two points, I can't agree there. Not everyone has the luxury to work part-time, or work as a high-paid contractor that can choose to work (or not work) whenever he pleases and still make enough money to live on, or dictate to their boss how many days off they get, or choose a job based on receiving an unusually high number of vacation days. Most jobs don't allow 50+ paid days off per year, and that's just the way things are right now. Whatever world you're living in sounds like fun, but it's certainly not this world.

Myself, I get around 100 days per year off and I wouldn't want any other way.

Yeah, it's nice being a perpetual student living off daddy's trust fund, isn't it?

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

Myself, I get around 100 days per year off and I wouldn't want any other way.

Could you tell us what and where you are working and a bit more about your life style? I'm interested in the circumstances that make this possible for you... maybe we can learn something from you ;)

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

Myself, I get around 100 days per year off and I wouldn't want any other way.

Yeah, it's nice being a perpetual student living off daddy's trust fund, isn't it?

Ever consider that he could be not the student but the teacher?

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Hijacked Public]

I get as many days off per year as I like and I'm not living off a trust fund. I'm a freelance photographer and most of the work I do is For Hire and scheduled well out in advance. If I don't want to work in July I just don't schedule anything.

Even better, many of my assignments involve going to far flung places where my cell phone won't even work and WiFi hotspots have never been heard of. Even when I'm working I'm half on vacation. The downside is that there is a very real danger of being kidnapped and set on fire in a lot of the places, but it all balances out in the end.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[slim-t]

How much vacation time does this future replacement of yours get? What if they want a day off in the 10 weeks that you are unreachable?

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[bhima]

Nope not a student not trust fund kid... to old for both.

I'm not a contractor and I'm not all that high paid (I've swapped raises for more time off 60% of the time for the last 10 years)

I made choices, just like every else does. Only difference is I chose not to be part of the consumer culture and I chose to be a big part of my kid's life.

Nothing special, nothing sinister, nothing unattainable.

The real problem is not very many people even try. Honestly that's all I did... I asked.

Yes I do live in a nice world and I don't doubt you don't recognize it; but it's there... really.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Peter Cooper]

An cheap house costs 5x income. You get about 5 square feet to play with. We don't have mobile housing over here, the only real option is renting.

That's not true. I just saw an ad in the paper today for a mobile home in a residential park for £66k just several miles from here. Not the sort of place I'd want to live, granted, but there's always the option. They're not as common over here, but there's still a lot.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[legoburner]

And dont forget the option that Richard Branson (head of Virgin) took when he was young and poor... get a houseboat. They are considerably cheaper than houses and more mobile than trailers. Plus if global warming makes sea-levels rise, you'll be laughing. A broadband Internet hookup might be a problem unless you park somewhere near a good wireless spot though!

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[billsoxs]

Ever consider that he could be not the student but the teacher?

I am a teacher (professor) - and I most certainly do nto get 100 days off per year. (Strictly speaking I get 0 vacation days per year.)

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Tim C]

When I go away I have to at least check my phone messages once a day, even with the trained monkey in my place things can still go wrong.

Dude, you're on holiday - it's not your problem. If your colleagues can't cope without you, it's better that the management team realise that quickly and either train them up or replace them; otherwise, you'll be stuck wasting your precious holiday time working. No-one lies on their death bed, wishing they'd spent more time in the office.

It's a tragic fact of society that things need to be fixed yesterday, unfortunately this seeps into holiday time.

No, never, no way, no how. You want me to cancel/postpone my holiday to work instead, we can discuss matters. You want me to just take a chunk out of my holiday time to work without any intention of compensating me, either monetarily or with time off in lieu, forget it. I can always get another job; I can never get more time.

Don't get me wrong, when I'm at work I work hard and get the job done on time (where possible) and to the best of my ability. When I'm on my own time though, that's my time, not my employer's. If they want it, then we can discuss suitable remuneration. This is business; they'd not give stuff away for free (without an ulterior motive), they have no right to expect me to do so.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[gigne]

yeah, I couldn't agree more with your comment. What I was trying to say was that I at least need to be contactable just in case something really bad happens. If shit really hits the fan, then the most you will get is 5 minutes on the phone for guidance. Last time I was away someone had to phone me for the admin password for my dev box, as a patch I was working on hadn't been committed to SVN, and turned out that it was needed. Rather than re-implement they called me. This was an unforseeable event, and one which cost me 1 minute of my time, and I called back at my convenience.
I was NOT trying to imply that I am on the hotline all day taking business related calls. I am not one of these blackberry junkies sitting on the beach sending emails. When I go away I take a tent, walking shoes and some beans; No electricity, no laptop, no PDA.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[ColaMan]

You poor bastard. And that goes for the rest of you serfs too.

I work in an underground mine as an Auto Electrician, fixing heavy mining equipment. Everything is trending towards electronic control - engine and transmission controls, payload systems, CANbus vehicle control, loader remote (wireless) control systems and fully-autonomous, no-one's-driving, loaders. This kind of work satisfies the geek in me nicely. Pay is double the Australian average, job is challenging and not a fixed routine and I enjoy what I do.

I get 6 weeks holiday and 5 days paid sick leave a year , which accrues for as long as I like. I'm a bit let down by the 5 days sick leave, but, hey, what can you do?

I also work a 4 day on,4 day off roster with 12 hour shifts, which means that whenever I want 12 days off all I need to do is take 4 days of annual leave. So that 6 weeks leave translates into about 3 months leave if I take it wisely, and lets not forget the half of the year that I'm not at work due to my roster. I did work it out once that I only turn up for work just over a third of the year.

So well, what can I say. The jobs are out there - go looking.

Re: Weekends aren't vacations.

[abirdman]

Thank you for saying that. I could not agree more.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[theJML]

I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation. What prevents people from doing that? I hear it from friends who are overworked (usually because they are over-indebted): they can't leave because they'll miss something important at work. I never heard of this before because I always make sure that my future replacement in my position is trained for handling any emergencies when I am gone. I guess too many people are too protective of their position -- this usually means they see the future as a dead end or they see their abilities as plateaud. In this case, not taking a vacation really means they are just trying to hold ground.

I'm going to skip the 2-3 weeks comment and go right to the meat of this paragraph. Haven't you EVER heard of someone who ENJOYS their job?? I test software and hardware in an office downtown. I have a great view from my office, I work with great people, I have a strong work ethic, and I have fun at work. Sure, I disconnect when I leave. I shut off the phone, and I rarely ever take my laptop (and when I do it's usually to drop photos on when the CF fills up). However, At the same time that I fit your category of feeling like missing something important, I conflict with everything else you're trying to say.

• I don't have a dead end job, I enjoy what I do and enjoy working with the people there.
• I learn a lot at my job and I get to apply what I learn every day. Not only is it exciting to learn new things and see a point to them, but it's nice to feel useful, both as an employee and a human being.
• I don't have a replacement. I may have a few successors, but my boss, my coworkers and I all know that no one could ever replace me, only succeed me.
• I am not over-indebted. Especially when adding in my wife's income, we are quite well off considering we have no car payments, no credit card bills, and my student loans are paid over 3 years in advance (and soon to be completely obliterated). Do I have a $2k PS3 hooked to a 60" Plasma? No. Do I want one? No. Could I afford one? Sure.
• I don't think of a lack of vacation as a way to simply "hold ground" where I work. I see a vacation as a change from normal routine, but when you actually LIKE going to work, it's not really a necessity to take 2-3 weeks vacation a quarter.

IMHO, you should REALLY find a new job. You may not get to take 50 days vacation a year, but you might not need to... I like going to my job, I like learning, expanding, being productive, and I like coming home to my lovely wife every night. Don't get me wrong, vacations are great, but usually by the end of a vacation, I'm revitalized and ready to go back to work to see what I missed (not just to deplete the inbox) and jump into things again, not simply look forward to more time off. I hope I never have to live vacation to vacation.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

> I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation

Each quarter? Wow, we have a spoiled, whiny rich kid here. Other than teachers, I don't know anyone that has had that much time off total the past decade. I've had seven days off total the past 18 years. Two of the days were to handle each of my parents' funerals and one was the day I got married. I didn't get any other days off for my wedding because we had a fire at our data center the morning I got married. I almost lost my job for waiting until 6AM the next morning before returning to work.

> What prevents people from doing that?

We're not a spoiled rich kid like you so we can't afford to not work. Nice way to say "let them eat cake" in your own words.

> I can't think of a single project that my expertise is needed
> on for the entire project, or even 50% of it.

OK so now you're the incompetent little rich kid. I can't think of a day the past decade there wasn't something at work that I was the only one that could handle it. I've worked with companies from two man shops all of the way to the Fortune 50. In every case there were people that the business could not live without. My wife lost her job with Springs Industries (huge textile company) after her plant closed because the one guy died that knew how to maintain the machines that made their most (ok, only one) profitable product. So in your world people are utterly useless and worthless.z

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Dude, you're on holiday - it's not your problem.

Wow, you're selfish. So if there's a major problem while you're gone your employer is just supposed to stop operating? So because you're a selfish brat you feel you're entitled to endanger the jobs for dozens or even hundreds of people? Wow. Just wow.

> No-one lies on their death bed, wishing they'd spent more time in the office.

I really wish I knew where that lie started. Everyone I know wishes they had done more at work so they could make more money so that they could eventually afford to take a vacation (the topic of this entire discussion) or retire. On my first job with NCR I took all of the vacation days I had the first two years I worked there. I was fired for that. I really wish I had worked harder, because it was a good job and the few friends I still have there have made more money and have a better retirement than I have. I just about ruined my entire career for three weeks off of work. I wish I had done like almost everyone else there and not taken a single day of vacation (other than the days that the plant was closed) the entire time.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[XoXus]

On my first job with NCR I took all of the vacation days I had the first two years I worked there. I was fired for that.

You fool! What's the point of "vacation days" if you can't take them without being fired?

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[tsa]

Are your monthly expenses so big that you can't pay them for 24 months with zero income? Sell things and learn to cut expenses.

You either earn a LOT of money or you live very cheap. I don't know anyone who can afford to live for two years without an income.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[drsquare]

I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation. What prevents people from doing that?

Not have 12 weeks off a year, never mind the money to go on all those holidays?

What is so important that a vacation would create a risk/reward ratio that is out of whack?

I find that by not going missing for 12 weeks a year I can have this thing called a 'job', which means I can live in a house rather than on the streets, and can eat fresh food rather than out of a dumpster.

Oh and by not spending thousands every year on going away, I can then afford things such as mortgage payments, electricity, clothes, and running water.

Presumably you're in the top 1% of earners and can afford all this, and have a job which allows you all this time off. For 99.9% of the world, it isn't like that. Your post is the modern equivalent of 'let them eat cake'.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[potat0man]

People are talking about you.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can not imagine NOT taking 2-3 weeks off each quarter for a real vacation. What prevents people from doing that? "

How about the fact that most people can't afford to, and if they suggested doing it to their bosses they would likely not have a job. You are in an unusual position, and you need to realise this fact.

"I never heard of this before because I always make sure that my future replacement in my position is trained for handling any emergencies when I am gone."

Strangely not everyone is a manager. Do you let your employees regularly take off 2 or 3 weeks in every 12?

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer peaks and valleys in terms of work investment -- I'd rather do 6-60 hour weeks in a row and then cut back to 3-0 hour weeks (averaging to 9 40-hour weeks). The uptime of work means driving hard to beat deadlines, beat budget caps and end up being more efficient than whatever trade held me back. The downtime of the time-off means recovery in a few days, and the rest is like paradise no matter what I do. More time for family, more time for friends (who rarely have time), more time to write, more time to travel.

I understand that the typical W2 employee CAN'T do that, but why are most geeks still salaried??? I know this would turn into an OT thread, so someone should post an article to the editors for Ask Slashdot: Why aren't more geeks 1099'd? If another person says stability, I'll go nuts, because there are more contract jobs out there than salaried positions open. Especially if you are willing to travel (and get a great per-diem). Even more so if you're willing to travel internationally with a per-diem total that can exceed the work contract."

Some people have families, and thus the lifestyle you suggest is either not possible or very risky for them unless they already have that 2 year cash buffer. Without it the lifestyle you suggest is often not possible unless you forgo, at the very least, children.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

"You pay too much in taxes, regulations, tariffs and other regulatory costs in the UK, so more people are poor. "

To be honest the burdens aren't vastly different to the USA, and the proportion of the population in poverty is slightly less than in the USA. The UK is rated well for the lack of regulation when starting business and although public sector spending is higher than the USA and is edging up it is still only a few percent higher in terms of proportion of GDP than in the USA (where it is also edging up). Factor in that the NHS is a large part of that additional spending in the UK, and the figures look even closer.

The difference is probably in terms of natural resources. The UK is a relatively small country and its resources (on which real wealth lies) were depleted long ago. Empire provided an ability to tap natural resources in other areas of the world, but this is now gone. Thus the UK is post-industrial and reliant on services for wealth creation. At the moment the USA is at the point in the resource-wealth cycle that the UK was in the 1880s (when UK real terms economic growth was very high). This may change in the future. I would expect to see (as seems to be happening already) a resurgence of the former soviet states due to their natural resource wealth, and West Africa.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Oldest is 1987 with an energy efficiency rating 100% better than a typical newer tract home. "

What I find worrying about this is the suggestion that new homes are so inefficient. Making homes energy efficient is not rocket science, and if built in from the outset not even that expensive.

"I'm sorry, but paying off a home for 37 years is not ownership, it is slavery to a smarter party. "

Or you could consider it to be leverage, which is a pretty common tool in the business world. You don't have the cash for the purchase now, so you borrow. You could save but then you'd have the cost of saving AND living costs. If you cannot afford both of these then you open yourself to the possibility of never being able to get out of renting, which isn't a great position to be in. If inflation creeps up then it can reduce the real value of your savings whereas it reduces the real value of your debt, and even the marginal value if you have borrowed with a fixed interest rate. So in many ways a mortgage IS the smart option for most people. It comes with risk, costs, and obligations, but it certainly isn't a dumb thing to do.

"I have to balance my best work years with my best non-work years -- that means looking to the future as a focus for what I CAN do and what I'd WANT to do."

That means saving agressively for retirement which too often is not done. But then to do this you need to start saving early which is another cost for the young that means that saving to buy a house outright without a mortgage isn't really an option. This is an area where you do have to take the risk that inflation (or other possible devaulations of whatever asset you hold as your hedge against retirement costs) may reduce your retirement plan asset.

"I'm not embarrassed about where I live, in fact I am proud that I can actually LIVE in terms of balancing work, recreation, family and faith."

It's a good position to be in, but living in a mobile home does not necessarily offer what all want, not least when hurricanes come to visit.

Don't get me wrong I'd LOVE to be in a position where I had no mortgage debt and 2 years of living costs salted away, but I don't, and it is a very difficult proposition for most people. I would agree that people are often too consumerist and should save more and avoid mortgage equity withdrawl unless for very specific purposes (unavoidable healthcare costs, starting a business, etc) but on the other hand if everyone stopped buying stuff too quickly then the price of many things might fall, even gold. Easing out of a high-spending, high-credit economy is not something that can be done quickly without a considerable amount of pain.

But I do think that the simple things (watching a sunset, playing with your kids in the park, reading a good book) are probably undervalued compared to more consumerist things (having the latest games console, mobile phone) but I think a few of us here would need to swap professions from software geeks to park attendants if people changed their habits. Maybe we might all be happier tilling the soil.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[ScrewMaster]

Yeah, no kidding. Where I work, I started out with two weeks seven years ago, and have just worked myself up to three weeks. There are companies with more generous vacation policies, sure ... but not that much better. Not fifty days better. I don't know where the GP lives, but I doubt it's in the U.S.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[jonadab]

> Myself, I get around 100 days per year off and I wouldn't want any other way.

I only take one vacation a year, usually about a week and a day (plus the weekends at both ends, so it adds up to more like a twelve day stretch). And I don't travel during my vacation, because that would spoil it for me. (My idea of the perfect vacation is to unplug the phone, bolt the doors, close the drapes, and stay home. Alone, by preference.)

I do also get eight days' worth of holidays that we're closed, e.g., two days at Thanksgiving (which makes a four-day weekend, unless I happen to draw that Saturday).

However, I work five-hour days most days and total around twenty-five hours a week. So I get most of my mornings off until noon (except Thursdays, when I go in early and get off at 1:30pm) and have all of my evenings after about 6pm.

I only work about three, maybe four Saturdays a quarter (taking another day off during the week to compensate, usually Wednesday), and we're closed on Sundays, so I only go in on Sunday 2-3 times a year -- twice for about ten minutes for DST adjustments, and once more for a couple of hours for year-end rollovers if that happens to fall on the weekend.

Honestly, I think I'll take my short days over your lots of vacations, although of course I can see advantages to either arrangement.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[tverbeek]

Myself, I get around 100 days per year off...

Me too. I call them "weekends".

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[The Pim]

typical US$300,000 house with $50,000 down (most don't have that), you pay about US$19,000 in mortgage (6.5% fixed). US$16,200 of that is interest.

Of the interest, you get ~$5000 back as a tax deduction (in the US). Your house appreciates (conservatively) by inflation, ~3% or $9000, in a non-speculative housing market. (However now the market in most regions is highly speculative, so that's subject to fluctuation, drastically increasing both the upside and downside.) And the remaining $3800 reduces your growing principle, so it's effectively at investment returning a safe 6.5%. On the other hand, you pay the opportunity cost of investing the $50000 down payment, perhaps $4000, with fluctuations depending on how you invest. Property taxes will be a few thousand, depending on where you live, deductible (though they might just bring you up to the standard deduction). And don't forget the other costs of ownership, such as maintenance and condo fees. Finally, You lose another chunk to closing costs on both transactions and commission when you sell. Put that all together and compare to renting. Keep in mind that the numbers will change over the period of home ownership due to compounding and inflation.

This analysis isn't simple, but it's the only way to estimate how you'll make out financially with a house. Arguments like "2 of 10 years' earnings go to interest" and "how is that ownership?" are purely emotional.

Re:Weekends aren't vacations.

[Bobbolytic]

Many marinas and harbors are blanketed by WiFi. Live-aboards just subscribe to the front office for a few duckets a month, get a wifi card and sip from the big pipe just over there on shore. Satellite TV is good to go too. So you have your Net, your Soaps and your boat and it's easy to steam or sail off to ________ (fill in local marine vacation spot) for the weekend or longer. Come back to the still water to go to work. Slip fees are not necessarily cheap and are by-the-foot, but since you own or are buying your boat, and not land, you don't pay property tax. Just slip rental, and utilities. Granted, you need to be "of the type" to enjoy living between bulkheads and have to pump out the holding tank on occasion.

Use voicemail to screen people

[plover]

Lately I've been leaving a message like this on my voicemail:

Hi, this is John. I'll be out of the office until <date>. If you need to get in touch with me before then, please reconsider your options.

But my all-time favorite was the one I recorded before leaving on a family trip. "Hi. I'm on vacation for three weeks until <date>. If you need to get hold of me, please dial Scotland and ask for John."

Re:Use voicemail to screen people

[Anonymous Coward]

Criminals love those kinds of messages. "Yay, guaranteed no one at home for so long - time for some burglary!"

Re:Use voicemail to screen people

[plover]

Criminals love those kinds of messages. "Yay, guaranteed no one at home for so long - time for some burglary!"

Yeah, come to my work and rob my cube. Take all my work away. I'll weep, I promise.

I don't ever change my home message. I still have the generic robot voice saying something generic, like: HELLO. WE ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO TAKE YOUR CALL RIGHT NOW. PLEASE LEAVE A MESSAGE AFTER THE BEEP. *BEEP*.

Re:Use voicemail to screen people

[tverbeek]

Criminals love those kinds of messages. "Yay, guaranteed no one at home for so long - time for some burglary!"

Not a problem for me: I'm on the Burglar Union's do-not-call list.

Seriously, I sometimes put "I'm on vacation" messages on my home answering machine, and my friends have freaked out saying the same thing you did. But when was the last time you got a phone call from a burglar trolling for vacationing homeowners?

I'd fake my death

[wonkavader]

...if I thought that would stop them from calling.

But it wouldn't.

What I do.

[grub]

A few weeks at the Betty Ford Clinic is a great way to disconnect.

Re:What I do.

[east coast]

After I "disconnect" from work for a week I normally need a few weeks at the Betty Ford Clinic to reconnect.

Connected to non-work

[RogerWilco]

I've taken plenty of holidays this year, 3 weeks to the Cabibbean, 1 week to Prague, and 2 weeks to Sweden. (Yes I have 8 weeks of Holiday leave a year)
I did take my mobile phone with me on those holidays, not for staying in contact with my work, but to stay in contact with those who stayed at home and because of some organisational work I do for my orchesta in my free time.

So do I completely disconnect - Yes and No
Yes - I do completely disconnect from work,
No - I do not completely disconnect from those I leave behind when on holiday.

Just plan ahead

[rnelsonee]

When I go on vacation, I just make sure my coworkers know I'm away so they can handle any new problems, and I make sure the projects I'm working on can hold still for a couple of days. If people check email while they're away, it's really their own doing. Plan ahead, disconnect, and just deal with a busy Monday when you get back.

Granted, I haven't been on a long vacation in three years. Most of mine are three days here and there, but the same concepts apply. My last vacation to Mexico with some buddies, and I didn't check email once, and I made one phone call back home (to the girlfriend, pretty much required). My next trip is to go snowmobiling in Canada. My cell phone won't work, and that's fine with me. The idea of a vacation is to get away. Do it!

Incommunicado

[Cyphertube]

Aside from a few co-workers I would consider friends, I'm pretty well unavailable when on vacation. I will shut off the cell phone and leave behind if I can. I might check my e-mail, but probably not. I won't spend more than 5-10 minutes a day looking at any of it, even if there's a critical project.

Chances are, the building could burn down, the company move, or whatever, and I wouldn't know it while I'm away. Even better, now that I telecommute, I may well not realise it when I get back.

Re:Incommunicado

[Anonymous Coward]

When I'm gone for vacation, have fun reaching me. I am usually out of range of all communication other than satellite.

Go ahead, dial my cellphone. I don't have any signal.

Re:Incommunicado

[plover]

Heh. Every time I come back from vacation, I consider it a mini-game of roulette to see if my door access card will let me into the building. You never know if this will be the time they choose budget cuts, or if they find out about Slashdot during working hours... :-)

Re:Incommunicado

[tverbeek]

When I go on vacation (at least one that I plan myself), the only way to communicate with me would probably involve the use of a search-and-rescue team to find me. This past June I disappeared from the grid for 10 days on Isle Royale, a wilderness preserve in Lake Superior. I told my family I'd bring my cell phone (powered off) in case of emergency, but A) it's notoriously hard to get a signal there, and B) I lied. The only integrated circuits I took with me were in my camera.

As for that "worrying about work" nonsense... that simply isn't a problem when I go somewhere. If you're doing that, you either went some place astonishinly uninteresting (and I mean, waiting-in-line-at-the-DMV-level uninteresting), or you should consider spending a week in therapy next time because you're suffering from obsession or some other psychopathy. I love my job and I find it engrossing, but when I'm hiking through a forest that's home to moose and wolves with beautiful scenery waiting around every bend of the trail, things like NetRestore and MySQL don't even make their way into my consciousness.

Re:Incommunicado

[tverbeek]

One time I came back on a Monday from a week-long trip, and discovered that I'd just missed "Black Friday", when 10% of the staff was laid off. "Hey, where's Patty? And Jeff? And... do I need to go see the boss, or should I get to work?"

Almost entirely

[YrWrstNtmr]

Week long vacation last month. The only reason I took the laptop was to have somewhere to offload the hundreds of photos I took. The kids surfed and played games. Check work email? Ha.

Come on people

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop "working" so much and instead focus on being productive. Work smart, not hard.

What part of "Vacation" don't you understand?

[Noryungi]

I recommend reading this book for this little bit of precious advice (from memory, actual content may be different): "Vacation is not about checking your email every 5 minutes. Vacation is about not thinking about work at all. Vacation is not an inconvenience, it's something that will allow you to rest, disconnect and come back completely relaxed and un-stressed to your desk. It's not something your employer grudgingly grant you, it's something he knows you need to be more productive".

Read the book. It has a ton of wisdom and it explains much better than I could why you need to disconnect while on vacation. Very sysadmin-centric, but applicable to almost every job out there (the vacation part).

So yeah: no phone, email, pager, blackberry or anything.

Short.

[Anonymous Coward]

I take road trips on the 'busa, max 5 days in between work days. I do keep a cell phone on me in case shit breaks. So far so good.

Get out and do something.

[zcubed]

My vacations are riding my bike somewhere, anywhere. I take my cell phone but leave it off. On the schedule for next year is http://www.bicycletourcolorado.com/. Get up everyday, ride, meet people and then at night, drink some beer. Work never crosses my mind on these trips.

Posted by AC, but a good one nonetheless

[Anonymous Coward]

Went on a 3&1/2 week trip to the other side of the world last year.
Left the laptop at home
Brought my cell phone (Razr V3, quad band, all that good stuff)

Let the office know that if they wanted to reach me it'd be between the hours of 12pm (noon) and 6pm Manila time (12am midnight to 6am eastern), that I would be charging my recall overtime rate (hourly * 3), any time I was working would not be considered "time off" (saving vacation hours) and they would be paying my cell phone bill for that month ($3.98/min for calls while I was in the Philippines) - I ended up fixing 1 problem while I was out, and everything worked out just dandy. Just imagine having your boss waiting until after midnight local time to call you and pay an exorbitant fee to fix something from halfway around the world)

I just might go back again this year.

E

Re:Posted by AC, but a good one nonetheless

[houstonbofh]

You can do this on a cruise. The phone rates are high enough for them to leave you the hell alone. And I can vacation well in 2 days. It just takes two good days!

It doesn't take much

[Bullfish]

All it takes is a commitment to disconnect and to stick to it. I go to a cabin on a lake about 4 hours out of town. I go on weekends, and regularly take two two week vacations. I have electricity and plumbing there, but no net connection or cell service. The phone number there, I only give to family for emergencies.

When I go there, I finish my work before I go, and leave it at work. As far as work is concerned, there is no phone there. I ain't telling. As well, when they ask how they can get a hold of me, I give them directions that will take them to the lake shore with instructions to bring a boat.

That does the job.

I would reply, but...

[fractalrock]

I would love to reply to your post, but I'm on vacation right now (disconnected completely).

usually three weeks vacation in summer

[dunkelfalke]

i go to another country and my cellphone stays at home. i check email once a week.

all that because i don't like being overworked.

Impossible

[G3ckoG33k]

Even after a healthy two week remooote island vacation in Malaysia this summer, I had to go the first internet café when back on the mainland... I'm a /. sucker. Sigh.

My Honeymoon

[bryanporter]

I've had a real problem with this; I definitely feel my anxiety level increase whenever I am "disconnected" for any length of time. Case in point: my honeymoon.

We honeymooned in Hawaii (Maui), and while there I stayed up on email via my Treo, corresponding with people back at the office. I took great care to make sure that I did this while my wife was asleep, or at other times when we weren't together. Still, when my boss discovered that I had been reviewing code for my team while on my honeymoon he immediately had my phone's data service disconnected. At first, I was rather frustrated at being cut off, but after about 24 hours I just left the damn phone in my suitcase. In the end, my vacation was better for it.

Disconnecting is definitely a tough thing to do for extremely connected people, but it's well worth it if you can manage the first 24 hours of information drought. I was more relaxed, less concerned with time; basically, everything that I should've been doing while on vacation in the first place.

Of course, I also had 2300 emails when I got back. ;-)

Regards,
Bryan Porter

Re:My Honeymoon

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading your first few sentences, I was all ready to respond saying what a terrible waste of a trip to such a beautiful place.

I'm glad there ended up being a happy ending. You may very well have one of the best bosses in the world.

Go thank him right now, go ahead, I'll wait.

Outside of some romantic surprise, you souldn't be hiding anything from your wife on your honeymoon, ANYTHING. Your honeymoon is one time in your life that should be 100% about you and your wife, if you were spending your time sneaking off responding to emails, I'd have verry little home for your marriage. I'm glad you were able to learn to disconnect, and I'm hope you enjoyed your time with your wife all the more becasue of it.

Now, go thank your boss again.

Re:My Honeymoon

[Hillman]

Now, give him some slack.

If his wife is like my gf, she needs more sleep than him. And I guess he doesn't need to be with her when she's taking a long bath. I don't think that he was sneaking off but rather using this time to email.

If you're always 100% of the time with your wife/gf, I have very little hope for your relationship. ;-) needy needy needy :-D

Have a nice day!

Re:My Honeymoon

[Anonymous Coward]

Not surprised.

-Michael Kiwala

ps - I hope you're doing well

Re:My Honeymoon

[oldosadmin]

You may very well have one of the best bosses in the world.
Go thank him right now, go ahead, I'll wait.

I'm lucky enough to have a similarly good boss. He told me to stop working so much overtime when he found out I was working 20-30 hrs from home.

Re:My Honeymoon

[Anonymous Coward]

And I guess he doesn't need to be with her when she's taking a long bath.

Well, it is a honeymoon... damn right he should be in there.

Re:My Honeymoon

[fiddlesticks]

'when my boss discovered that I had been reviewing code for my team while on my honeymoon he immediately...'

got in touch with your new wife for a weekend of fun...?

On your honeymoon? You need help, my friend

Re:My Honeymoon

[div_2n]

Wish I had that problem. On my honeymoon on Oahu a few weeks ago, my family got a call (from emergency contact list) who then got in touch with me at the resort. I just so happened to bring a laptop because the wife had to take a test for an online course she was taking while we were there.

The problem? A print queue on an old AIX box had locked up. We had a high priced consulting agency on call to fill in for me (I'm the alpha and the omega of the IT department), but they couldn't seem to do it. Took me 5 minutes tops.

On the positive side, I made my company reimburse me for costs of in-room high speed internet which wasn't free. I also told them I wanted a bigger bonus because of that interruption. Won that too. But I still don't think it was worth it.

Re:My Honeymoon

[tverbeek]

You said you have a girlfriend but not a wife, so it's understandable that you don't get the point of a honeymoon. Yes, it is about spending all of your time together, to the exclusion of everyone else back home. That's not what the rest of the marriage will be like (nor should it), but that's exactly what a honeymoon is for.

My current vacation.

[ninji]

Im currently on thanksgiving vacation, I brought a full desktop PC to arizona from florida, purchased a dialup account, and am spending about 6 hours a day working from this PC even during thanksgiving with my family as Deadlines must be met. I also spend 2-3 hours a day in the apartment complex's internet faciltiies to make use of their high speed connection.

I've spent atleast an hour of every day ive been here on the phone discussing business related matters with coworkers, clients, and associates.

This is my vacation, but im still working 8 hours a day on it, but thats better then the 10-14 of a normal day. The hectic life of an IT Manager/Programmer, im sure many of you can relate.

For many of us, there's no such thing as being disconnected.

Re:My current vacation.

[Anonymous Coward]

You, my friend, need to learn to disconnect. 10-14 hour days? Do you work for EA, or one of those other sweatshops?

E

Are none of you system administrators?

[greenmars]

Reading the comments here about turning off your cellphone, not checking email, etc., makes me wonder if there are any system administrators reading this thread.

My peace of mind is dependent on 16 servers in a server room. If all of those are working, then it's my executive director's wireless connection I have to worry about. In fact, anyone at work with a laptop is bound to have a network "problem" once a week, usually having to do with switching between home, hotel, work, etc.

Some day, I'll find a reliable "number two" person, but until then, it's 24-7. Real vacations are a distant memory -- 20 years ago during college summers.

Re:Are none of you system administrators?

[yuriismaster]

My thoughts exactly!

I was an intern for the public sector not too long ago, and even though it wasn't particularly my job to babysit the servers, I felt more comfortable being able to check the backup jobs, make sure everything was alive, et cetera, after I left the office.

The only real cure for that is to have more than one sysadmin who could get stuff done and rotate out paranoia-time. Then they gave me a blackberry... The only times I wasn't in nazi-paranoia mode was when the battery died and on public holidays.

Re:Are none of you system administrators?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I am.

Two things are possible in your scenario:
A.) Your work environment sucks terribly if you're constantly worried about something breaking. If they can't live without you, then you've done a poor job at either setting things up, training your assistant, or not making it clear that you have a work life and a home life. It's exactly your willingness to submit to this stupidity that other employers pick up and and begin to expect.

B.) If you're that worried about the work environment, you'll never find a 'reliable' number two - you'll constantly be checking on him.

Please. More sysadmins need to realize that, for the most part, we ain't curing cancer, here. Nobody will DIE because you're unavailable. "Oh noes! No wireless for teh Boss!!" Guess you should have a better backup plan, so you're not a single point of failure.

My junior technicians and engineers know that when I'm gone, I'm gone. Somebody better be DEAD if they're calling me on vacation, and they have NO guarantee that I'll answer the phone for two weeks. We don't worry, though. Everybody is crosstrained enough to handle 90% of each other's workload, and nobody hordes information or knowledge. Being "The Guy" ain't worth the hassle.

Please, quit perpretrating the myth that System Administrators are 24x7x365 guys. The operations people may think they need to be, but do some planning and forethought, and you can enjoy your life.

Re:Are none of you system administrators?

[Mr. Slippery]

I'll find a reliable "number two" person, but until then, it's 24-7.

If you're that irreplaceable, then your company's number one priority had better be finding that reliable "number two" person.

If they're not, your number one priority should be finding a new job. Because not only are you getting screwed over, but eventually somebody else who's irreplacable is going to leave, and your employer will fall over and you'll be out of a job the hard way.

It's good to be valuable to your employer or clients, but it's dysfunctional to be irreplaceable.

Re:Are none of you system administrators?

[coaxial]

What you're saying sounds like you're being responsible, but you're actually being a fool. You have convinced yourself that happiness is a somehting that you can't afford. You've become obsessed. Trust me. The executive director isn't worring about you while going down the slopes in Vail, why should you worry about him?

If you were hit by a bus today, the company would go on. You're completely replaceable. Take advantege of that.

Still not convicned? Let me put it in terms of enlightened self interest. You don't have a "number two," because you've never given a "number two" a chance to develop. You're doing the job all the time. Don't. He'll figure out it out when you're gone. Then you'll have your number two.

Re:Are none of you system administrators?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, there are some system admins reading this thread.

I can't imagine that earlier poster taking multiple two or three week vacations every year.. most people are lucky to get two weeks of vacation time every year in the US, usually accruing at the rate of one or two days every paycheck. Normally, you can't carry very many days over into the next year (about one work week's worth of time), so racking up a three week vacation is unthinkable unless you're allowed to dip into your sickdays (assuming that you get an allotment of those). In short, caca del toro.

A lot of shops these days are smaller - one admin for thirty or forty boxes. If you can actually turn your cellphone off for a couple of days to rest (just getting a solid night's worth of REM sleep can be a vacation) more power to you. If something does blow up when your workphone is deactivated.. you may as well never turn it back on because it means your ass.

Getting management to hire a second-in-command for you can be an adventure in and of itself. Sometimes tactics worthy of the BOFH are necessary to get management to create that position.

This is the technique I've found that works very well for an overworked system admin in telecommunications: CYA, schedule ahead of time, and get the hell off the grid.

Cover your ass. Document everything and tell everyone who matters at work where it is and what it is. People tend to treat documentation as a joke these days, because there's never enough time, right?

Wrong. Make the time. Documentation can mean the difference between a NOC monkey R'ing TFM and fixing something and calling you at 0-dark-hundred to take care of a failure that's ballooned into a three-day outage. Catch it early, fix it fast.

Secondly, schedule ahead of time. Plan your summer vacation in January or February and schedule the time off for it around then. Give everyone at least a month's notice that you'll be out of town and incommunicado. I like to give everyone three months of notice with reminders via e-mail every month just in case. Then tell them were the documentation you wrote is and kindly inform them that they will be relying upon it for a week because you won't be anywhere near a telecommunications device for X days. They're on their own.

Third.. for $DEITY's sake, get the hell off the grid. Find someplace that's at least one day's hike from the road. Go camping. Rent a cabin and go fishing. I like to go camping out west in Arizona or Nevada far enough out that it's not even worth turning the cellphone or pager on because there is no signal.

I check out completely

[Stele]

When I go on a vacation (regardless of the time, from a long weekend to a two week trip to Europe) I disconnect completely. I work at home and am constantly in contact with my partners via email and cell, but when I leave for vacation I leave all that behind, and am entirely "unavailable". It is liberating. The only problem is wading through millions of SPAMs when I get back.

Re:I check out completely

[mediaboy]

I've been lucky enough to afford two weeks off in a tropical country each year for the last five years. On all five trips I've left the cell phone and pager at home and stayed at places that don't have television, phones in the rooms or Internet connectivity.

The first time I did this it felt really strange to be disconnected from "the world", but now I look forward to it.

BTW, Fiji has been the best location so far. http://www.matamanoa.com/

Not at work? Not reading work-related mail

[stevey]

Given the choice I'd like to have the option of reading mail, surfing the internet, and using a computer whilst on holiday, but I can live without it.

I guess there are two questions here:

• Can you go away with no network access.
• Should you be contactable by work / reading work mail whilst away.

The first I'd say "yes I can, but I don't want to". I find that with no net connection I do miss it, things like looking up actors on IMDB if I've been to the cinema, etc, so I would prefer to take a laptop away with me for any trip lasting for more than 5 days - but I'm not addicted enough to require it.

The second? No, definitely not. I made the decision early-on that if I'm not actively at work then I will not check work mail. I'm happy enough to work the occasional long day, if there is a big job/release/whatever on, but as a matter of policy when I'm not at work I don't expect to be contacted by colleagues. If they want me to be on call or otherwise available during my evenings and weekends I expect to be paid a lot of money for it. A lot of money.

Even if I get curious about whether a long operation scheduled to run overnight has succeeded or not I'll rarely ever check up on it. When I'm not at work I'm not at work.

It can be therapeutic to check in

[rpjs]

When I was on holiday recently, I did check my work email once from my wife's friends' place and was delighted to see that there'd been another Deployment From Hell. The therapeutic part was that I wasn't involved in it this time.

WTF?

[Lord Kano]

My idea of vacation is someplace where I can go to "connect".

LK

Try no TV or Internet

[techstar25]

There is a little place I go to in upstate NY that is so nestled in the mountains that they can't get cable TV and don't get any broadcast TV stations either. Cell phones won't because there are no towers for miles. Most people don't bother with satellite because they are only there a few months per year. Imagine no TV and no internet. It's just me and my wife and a few board games, and some jigsaw puzzles, and of course the lake. Not only can you re-connect with your own soul, but you also get to re-connect with your spouse in a deeper way. It's also a great chance to catch up on a great book or two that's been collecting dust on the shelf. I highly recommend it.

Re:Try no TV or Internet

[antifoidulus]

Dude, you basically described the plot to "The Shining"....

Re:Try no TV or Internet

[afidel]

There's a similar spot in Utah, Zion Ponderosa Ranch and Resort. There was only one electrical outlet in my cabin, plugged in were a clock radio with two stations and a desk lamp. My cellphone didn't work and there was no phone in the cabin, just a public payphone. It was the most relaxing vacation of my life. Good value too, $100/day per person for lodging, three meals a day, and all the outdoor activities I wanted. It looks like they have added quite a few accommodations since I was there but I bet it would still be a good get away from it all vacation spot.

Re:Try no TV or Internet

[Anonymous Coward]

No TV and no internet make techstar25 a dull boy.

Re:Try no TV or Internet

[themassiah]

Sounds like Minerva, N.Y.

//local Upstate NY'er. ;)

Re:Try no TV or Internet

[tverbeek]

If this place has electricity, radio stations, and a phone available, you're not getting away from it all. :)

define completely?

[josepha48]

My last vacation, I did not check my email or the web. I had a cell phone, but used it only to check the time. I did watch TV, but tried to aviod the news. Does that count?

I will say it was probably one of the better vacations I have had in a long time. The last time I did a vacation like that was when I graduated from college, and went on a diving trip. All I did on that vacation was wakeup, dive, eat, drink beer, and sleep. In that order ;-).

Think Remote

[bobsledbob]

When I choose a vacation, I choose a location or activity that is completely removed from the modern world. For example, I like to go on multiday whitewater rafting trips, especially those in the west where you can get 5 or more days and there's no possibility to connect. Backpacking, horseback, cross country skiing, remote fishing, whatever.

There's actually two reasons for doing this: 1) To force myself to unplug; 2) to see a part of our country or world that is quickly shrinking. I think the second reason resonates with me more than the first.

at random

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

my vacations come at near random, I tell no one at work where I'm going, when I'm going, and if I'm even coming back. See, my objective is to keep work worrying about me, not the other way around.
Someday maybe I'll leave at an odd hour on a tuesday morning and leave a note from "the competitors" (whoever they may be at the time) stating that if they ever want to see their valuable R&D guy again to wire X amount of dollars into Y swiss bank account. Just maybe.

Incommunicado

[fdiskne1]

I tell my boss my sister's phone number and tell him that it is only for extreme emergencies. I give my sister the phone number of the hotel I'll be staying at with very specific instructions. If I get a phone call while I'm on vacation, I expect there to be someone dead or on their death bed. If I can find an Internet cafe where I'm at, I may connect to my Gmail or Yahoo account to email a picture or two to a small group of friends, but other than that, computers and phones don't exist.

Danger!! - Six Week Vacation

[onkelonkel]

Heed ye the example of Steve S. (his real name) who saved up 3 weeks one year, and added it to 3 weeks from the next so he could finally take his 6 week dream vacation. The company got along fine without him for those 6 weeks, so they figured "what do we need him for anyhow" and canned him upon his return.

Re:Danger!! - Six Week Vacation

[tsstahl]

My friend, Mortimer (not his real name), had a similar experience. He was the sole sysadmin for a smallish institutional network. After a management switch in which the inevitable cost cutting occurred, he was left without a job. The reasoning was since nothing ever goes down, why do we need a sysadmin?

My buddy got the last laugh by repeatedly turning down requests to come back in a consultative capacity as one system after another acted up.

I'm sure Steve S. hated life for awhile, but I'll put my money on clueless management over a proverbial anecdote. :)

Re:Danger!! - Six Week Vacation

[Anonymous Coward]

One good way to avoid that happening to you is to actually be useful to your employer. That was "Steve S"'s big mistake.

The more disconnected the better

[hcdejong]

I make it a point never to contact work when I'm on holiday. One reason is that there's no point, since I won't be able to solve any issues that may come up since I don't carry the several GB of data I'd need for that. I've had a few bad experiences, checking in during a vacation only to find a nastygram I couldn't do anything about until I returned to the office. These days, I make sure beforehand that a colleague can cover for me, and then I pull the plug completely. I won't check company e-mail, and the company doesn't have my mobile number.

Also, just one week is not a vacation. I've found I need two weeks at least for the vacation to have a positive effect, i.e. unwinding completely, and getting to a point where at the end of the vacation I've got more energy than at the start.

You are not on vacation.

[camperdave]

You aren't on vacation. You're just telecommuting for two weeks. As a manager, you should have scheduled whatever projects you have on the go so that there was a two week period with no major milestones, or deadlines, etc. You should be able to delegate your responsibilities. If you can't do that then your manager has a problem on his or her hands: an employee who refuses to relax, refuses to delegate tasks, who thinks they are indispensable to the company, and who is working themselves into an early grave.

Force yourself to unplug for at least three days - no phone, no internet, no TV. Things aren't gong to fall apart if you're not in communication for three days. Go out into the Everglades and get some fresh air. Grab some family/friends and cook some s'mores and hotdogs over a campfire. Lie on the beach for an hour one night and just look at the stars. Go scuba diving or snorkeling. Since it is your Thanksgiving vacation, spend some time by yourself and write up a list of things that you are thankful for (pen and paper, no PDAs or laptops).

I head for Algonquin

[mnmn]

I go backcountry camping where gsm and fm signals do not get through. On longer trips lasting 3 days or more, I start getting anxious fidgeting my fingers on the canoe paddles. Its like a smokers withdrawal. I start wondering how will I read all those slashdot articles, all those missed first posts etc. Missing new deals on tigerdirect, sparkfun etc.

I usually drive back 40 over the speed limit.

It's not a vacation

[DingerX]

...It's working in a different direction.

disconnect

[Noodles_HK]

I guess ppl who blog their whole vacation experience are not posting in this thread.

I am a bit of both when it comes to vacation. I bring a laptop and cell phone. Laptops is for checking personal emails, downloading pictures, and looking up any itinerary changes. Cell phone is because if I'm meeting with someone, I don't want to stop at a pay phone. Also, for emergencies.

On the other hand, as a net engineer for a small company, the amount of knowledge overlap between the IT Director and Net Admin is very small, so even if I planned my vacation carefully, there will still be something that breaks that the others will either not be able to fix, or not fix quickly. I make myself available for emergencies.

I do like one of the former poster's "away message"...

"If you need to get in touch with me before then, please reconsider your options."

stuck at work

[Daytona955i]

Unfortunately I just started a new job back in April and because of their lame policies, I don't get any vacation (Other than the small handful of holidays everyone gets) until January. Even then, I only get two weeks vacation.

However, in the past, and when I do have the day off (because fortunately I work 4 10 hour days each week) I most certainly do not think about work. Occasionally if I have a particular coding issue that I'm stumped on I'll work through that in my head in my downtime but for the most part, work stays at work.

However I do have a hard time unplugging, when I'm not coding at work, and I don't have some other activity planned (such as house maint. or whatever) I'm on the computer coding on personal projects.

Danger!! - ANY Vacation

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless of the length of the vacation, they can be dangerous.

I took a week long vacation once. Totally out of communication with the office, and with our client site (I was an on-site consultant at the time). Came back bright and refreshed, and discovered our client had decided to blast everything our company was doing for them, in the hope of getting some rate cuts. As I was the only one on the team not there to defend himself, the whole mess got blamed on me by the sales droid/manager supposedly overseeing the account. I walked into a room filled with very angry people ready to lynch me.

Unfortunately for the droid, I was wise and had kept email copies and hard copies of the documented decisions in question, and by the end of the day proved I was completely blameless, and the droid's claims of being left out of the loop were lies. But they pulled me off the client's project anyway, as they'd already promised to do so, and the entire atmosphere at the rather small consulting firm was ruined; I quit. Took me 5 months of doing short-term gigs around the area before I found another job, but it was worth it.

I heard the droid was one of those let go when the consulting firm had to fire 15% of their people the following month. I sincerely hope he's wandering the streets begging for rotten food.

So, yes, being completely unreachable is a necessary part of recharging yourself during a vacation. But be ready to walk into hell on your return.

Re:Danger!! - ANY Vacation

[triso]

...So, yes, being completely unreachable is a necessary part of recharging yourself during a vacation. But be ready to walk into hell on your return.

I think it is better to relax unplugged for an entire vacation and then walk into hell than to have one's vacation ruined half way through, having to clean up remotely or worse yet, having to return early.

I'm glad your company isn't a provider of mine ...

[debest]

.. because personally I wouldn't want to do business with an outfit that would fall apart because of the absence of a single employee. That is what would happen, isn't it? Your presence is critical to the operation of the business, and if a "problem" occured while you were unavailable, the entire operation would crumble. Right?

No? You mean that you would, in fact, be able to leave for a week and come back to find the building still occupied by employees, phones still ringing, sales still being made, etc.?

Face it: you're not THAT important. If you were hit by a bus, you'd be replaced. Business would continue without you. If they can replace you in that circumstance, they can figure out a way for you to have a vacation. The fact that they are not indicates you like never having a vacation (you're a control freak), or you don't like it and your "executive director" and his coworkers are abusive dicks for not allowing you to arrange vacation time.

Either way, your company is being very shortsighted, and cannot see that they are going to be sorry when you *do* stop working there (regarless of the circumstances of your departure). True, you're not irreplacable, but they're still going to be hurt by your not having an effective team under you.

Scuba Diving and Spelunking

[tacocat]

Are two great activities to take up when you are on vacation.

My boss doesn't want me taking my cell phone with me to 100 feet deptsh.

But seriously, work still has an expectation that I will be magically available in the event that something should go wrong. This can be considered a good thing in that I'm recognized as something they probably don't want to fire at the next right-sizing cycle. However, I do have a tendency of going places there no phone has gone before. In part, that's what I enjoy as a vacation but I'm fullly aware of just how remote I really am from work -- and I don't mind that either!

I take a cell phone - for conveneince/emergency

[sherpajohn]

When I am on vacation - work is as far from my mind as I can put it (quite a distance!). We do take cell phones though - for emergency (ours or something wrong at home with the cats) and convenience. Actually this year we were away for 3 solid weeks, and some of the places we were - a CB would have been more practical for emergencies.

I never touch a computer on vacation, no internet cafe's at least - occasionally the spouse wants to send someone like her mom an email from a PC in a hotel lobby or the old fax room, but that's about it.

The vacations I used to take, I doubt even a CB radio would work, days from the nearest road-head (or road tail?) i nthe middle of the bush - those were the days.

Re:I'm glad your company isn't a provider of mine

[Anonymous Coward]

because personally I wouldn't want to do business with an outfit that would fall apart because of the absence of a single employee.

An interesting dilemma. Some people are complaining about how their company limits their vacation days, to which the answer tends to be "start your own or suck it up". Yet here comes something like this, just to keep people on their toes, should they fall for believing that they can go it alone.

I guess the answer to "how do I succeed in life?" is "You don't, LOL!"

Weekend trip to Ecuador

[xorowo]

More because of family constraints than work constraints, I spent an "extended weekend" in Ecuador about a month ago. It was important to me that I disconnect as completely as possible, so I left the laptop, the cell phone, and almost all other electronics at home. I ended up at a reserve up on the western slopes of the Andes, and spent most of my time hiking, writing and reading. Like many people around here, I work in technology, so pursuing social disabsorption (is that a word?) was both refreshing and necessary.

I think that short trips can be useful, given the expectation of them. For me, it wasn't good enough to travel around Northern California. I would have felt that this trip was too limiting. Although some people thought that the trip to Ecuador might prove to be more traveling than was worth it for such a short period of time (2 days flying, 3 days in the country), my expectation that the trip would only be that long helped me to moderate my needs. I didn't care that when I got back I had hundreds (or was it thousands? I don't remember) of email messages. I just cared that the world around me was devoid of communication, just for a little bit.

One reason for not disconnecting.

[Zugok]

You just have to make sure your 'dead man's switch' doesn't activate while you're on vacation. Just to contradict that, activating it might be a good thing so some people :D

Totally Incommunicado

[644bd346996]

If I still have cell reception, it means that I'm still driving to my destination. Most of my vacation spots are only accessible by helicopter or a day of hiking/pedaling/paddling/etc. I've even "camped" under a mountain an hour's crawl away from daylight.

Disconnecting

[spaceyhackerlady]

Tragic. Worse is the syndrome where vacations are totally stressful because you have to get so many things done before you leave, and will be indundated in fires when you get back. Gross mismanagement, in other words.

I provide emergency contact info when I travel, but it's always on a "this had better be important" basis. In 6 years they've used it once. Yes, it was important.

Vacations are supposed to be just that: vacations. I'm going to Costa Rica for a week in February to look at stars, and won't even have a phone. I'll have a little cabin, a telescope, a pool, cold drinks in the shade of palm trees, and zillions of stars at night. The last thing I want is to hear from my employers.

...laura

part-time

[Triv]

Part of the problem with taking long vacations (or vacations at all) is the way many employers classify their employees.

I work 50+ hour weeks with insane hours (5:30pm to between 2 and 5am with a certain number of mandatory weekends a month, though I have responsibilities that require me to be in the office every Friday, Saturday and Sunday). I don't get vacation days, or sick days, or health insurance. In fact, my company classifies me as a part-time (ha), freelance employee. The thing is, if I WERE salaried, vacations or not, my salary would drop like a stone due to lost overtime and extra deductions.

I love my job, I really do, but the way we're categorized smacks of legal finagling to me.

--Triv

Re:part-time

[Joe The Dragon]

Does the IRS classifies you as a full time employee if so then you may have a real good legal case.

Re:part-time

[Triv]

interesting. Any ideas as to where I should start looking? The IRS website is unnecessarily difficult to search for information.

Re:part-time

[tverbeek]

Check with your state Bar to see if they can refer you to a labor-law specialist in your city. They'll be more familiar with any state laws that apply.

I don't take vacations

[Centurix]

I make a visit to the Recall company.

Two Worlds

[Steinfiend]

I've been reading all the posts on this thread, and wanted to reply to each and every one of them. I don't think I've been this wound up in a long time, some posts on here really made my blood boil. Whether its the ignorance, the stupidity, or just plain naivety, I don't know. In my mind it really comes down to two different work (worker?) types, of course with variations and exceptions.

The first type are what I call the "John 'Maddog' Hall-ites", no offense meant to the big man. Whether it be by luck, education, hard work or something else, a person has found themselves to be in a position where they can (and do) earn big money, just to basically be themselves. I.e. if they want to hack on the latest up and coming file system for Linux on a beach in Brazil, they can. If they want to work on their website, blogging about their latest skiing trip, they can. If they want to take a 2 week contacting job, run a few ethereal scans on a companies network, then tell the SysAdmin he needs to get rid of his Windows servers and replace them with Linux, they can. dada21 at the top of this page seems to be an example of this taken to the Nth degree, with an extra scoop of arrogance, and some asshole sprinkles.

The second type is the larger of the two groups. Those of us who work in the real world, doing real jobs, to make real money, for real reasons. We have houses, cars, significant others, children even, all of which are wonderful in their own way, but require money for up-keep. It would be nice to be able to tell a 3 year old that she doesn't get any food this week because Daddy wanted a couple of days in the Mountains, but it just doesn't work out so well (they cry when hungry, who knew?!). I don't know about your Bank but mine tends to get a little upset when I miss a couple of mortgage payments. The argument "but I just HAD to go boating for a week!" doesn't seem to hold much water with the Bank Manger these days (Bastard!).

Some people will come back with an argument that gets me even more angry. They will say, if you aren't earning enough money to be able to survive for a couple of weeks without income, what are you doing still working at that job? For every CIO out there, there are thousands of Web Developers, Tech Support Agents, and entry level Code Monkeys. It would be nice if we could all take a quick run up the Corporate ladder and get the big corner office and the 7 figure salary or the prime Consulting positions, but whether its by lack of skill or lack of opportunity, not all of us can.

I don't want to sound bitter, because I'm not, I've been lucky enough to get myself in at the birth of a rapidly growing company with lots of potential, so I foresee in the next few years I'll be able to take a trip or two back to the old country. However, it does seem a little rich (pun intended) for someone to criticize, be-little and downright insult someone else, just because they weren't born as smart, haven't had the same breaks or made the same life decisions.

Re:Two Worlds

[bjprice]

So you don't get paid vacation days? That sucks.

I believe 20 days paid holiday per year is the legal minimum in the UK.

Re:Two Worlds

[potat0man]

I want to step lightly here. I think perhaps your boiling blood caused your eyes to pass too quickly over dada21's post. Granted by refering to people's complaints about their lives as 'horror stories' he may be a bit insulting but it's a stretch and he's not being arrogant at all. He hedges himself by saying 'Personally' and he says he doesn't think everyone should live that way, he says it's not the best way to live, he's just saying that when he hears people complain about their lives he doesn't understand then why they choose the lives they have. I've got to say I'm in his boat. I hear things like, 'Life's hard', and 'Life's a bitch, then you die', and 'It's really hard sometimes.' And pretty much always those complaints are in reference to financial related things.

You seem to infer that only the super rich are able to be financially independent and able to live the lives they want to live (you mention having to make 7 figures). But if you read dada21's post he's clearly not super-rich, he's just not buying into what everyone else is buying into, or as you put it, the real world (which, btw, shows your arrogance about your own feelings of superiority. How is your life any more real than his? Because you have debt and kids?). He mentions how he prefers old mobile homes to a mortgaged house because it means he has to work less and so he has more time to work on things that interest him but don't necessarily pay him well or at all.

Now, for people who like their jobs and are passionate about them, power to them. And for people who just can't go through life without a sports car, good for them. And for people who like having kids, a five bedroom house and an SUV, live on, the world wouldn't be what it is without them. But he's not talking about the happy people. He's talking about the complainers, the one's who feel trapped, the ones who have no end in sight, the people who hate their jobs (and there are plenty of them). When I hear those people complain I try to help them out by showing them how little they would have to work if they just chose to live a little differently, but they won't hear of it. They NEED their car, and $10 martinis and $1,500/month loft.

I dropped out of college two years ago because I found myself more distracted by class than engaged by it and I figured I was wasting a lot of money to do it. I was a philosophy/mathematics double major but found myself more interested in computer science towards the end of sophomore and mid-way through junior year. I could have transfered but I figured I was studying so much independently just from library books why not drop out entirely and learn on my own? So I did. Of course I needed to pay rent though since my parents weren't too excited about the idea and lived 2,000 miles away. I could have gotten a $15 or $18/hour job pretty easily at one of the city's major employers but instead I opted for the $10/hour night clerk job at a 4 star hotel in the city. That way I was able to spend all night studying without being bothered. Anyway, after taxes I was pulling in about $1250/month. My rent was $375 for a downtown studio (Albuquerque, NM), $30 for dsl, $75 food, $12 buspass, $20 for my 250cc motorcycle gas and insurance/month. Some money for new socks and t-shirts every six months or so and those were about all my expenses. So I was able to stash about $700/month. After sixteen months of having a pretty ok time at that job some new management moved in whom I didn't really like. They increased my work load so that I actually had stuff to do and couldn't just study through my shift so I just decided to quit.

So now since July I've been job-free and I ought to be ok money-wise until around March or April when I'll have to make some decisions (I'm already making plans). But right now I spend lots of time at the public and university libraries, go hiking in the mountains and go walking around the city, visit the parks, lots of studying/learning new programming languages mostly and reading up on OS design. I go to $1 matinee sec

Re:Two Worlds

[spaceyhackerlady]

So you don't get paid vacation days? That sucks.

I've heard working conditions are pretty bad in 3rd world shitholes.

I get 20 days per year, plus a week of personal time for appointments, short-term illness and such. I can carry 15 days over to the next year if I want to, but rarely do - when I take vacations I come back to work refreshed, ready to take on new problems, and to come back to old ones with new energy and insight. That's the point of vacations.

...laura

Sick days

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get vacation days, or sick days,

So if you get ill, do you phone in dead?

problem with no internet during vacation

[mthreat]

I recently took a week vacation in key largo, mostly scuba diving. I left my notebook at home and didn't have any internet access at the hotel.

I found that I wanted to research the area to decide where to visit; I wanted to learn about the various dive sites, shipwrecks, and historical landmarks in the keys.. Without the internet how could I do that? Wikipedia would have been perfect. Some hotels provide a book with this information (ours didn't), but those books are largely advertisements.

So I found myself wanting to be able to get online, to enhance the vacation. The trick would then be, avoiding my email :)

RE: Tough to disconnect

[GlL]

I, too, have trouble unplugging. I am constantly surfing, e-mailing, watching, and listening. I have started to have a once a month "Disconnect Day". This day consists of turning off the computers, phones(all), tv's and radio and reading a book, working in the garden, going hiking, kayaking, biking, having conversations with my wife, playing board games. I am sure that you can think of things that you would like to do on a "Disconnect Day" yourself. I always find myself to be rejuvenated after a day of rest from input bombardment.

I guess I am a strange case

[masticina]

I guess I am a strange case, as in I usually have small "bits" of vacation say .. a long week here and there! That is just how things seem to end up being. And I easily can be without "mental digital imput" for a week...it is really vacation for me then. To read a book, see sheep eat..do things the manual way ;)

I might be a bit computer crazy and..savy myself but it is not like without it I am totally lost. I just do other things!

Bah

[stinkbomb]

Vacations are for the weak.

Re:Bah

[tverbeek]

You misspelled "week".

Relaxing with outdoor activities

[neodude88]

I'd go out every now and then, hike, swim, whatever. I personally try to go outside and rock climb as often as I can. It really gets the stress levels down, probably helps delay the carpal tunnel too. But again, I'm a college student, what do I know.

But the climbing sure is great and a great way to relax.

Split the difference

[xrayspx]

I'm an advocate of unplugging from work when you're on vacation, however, if it makes you miserable to do so, DON'T. If someone would have a more enjoyable vacation by checking email to make sure things haven't melted down, who am I to say they shouldn't.

I should point out that while I say I "advocate" unplugging, I myself don't. If I'm laying in my hotel bed in the middle of the night checking my mail over the VPN, who does it hurt? How is it making my trip worse? I stop there though, I won't actually become involved in anything unless someone specifically asks me to. If I were working on a problem, and someone who's on vaca piped up with a bunch of 'solutions', I think it might annoy me.

I vanish

[Genocaust]

When I go on vacation I become a ghost to anybody back where I live. Usually I travel someplace international and provide no email, phone, or other means to contact me. I don't have a pet or anything else of horrible value that I have to leave behind, so there's not ANYTHING so important it can't wait for me to get back. It's all just stuff. Material posessions that can be replaced, say, if my place were to burn down.

I agree

[Anonymous Coward]

Whenever I go camping, to Yosemite, or some place similar I go for a week and leave anything that could connect me to work/school far far away. Always works out for me.

Also

[slack_prad]

Disconnecting completely also includes 'don't post on /.'
but then again, here i am :/

Sick

[tsa]

Recently I had to go to the hospital for a small operation. So I called in sick and went there. Due to complications I was not at work for over six weeks. I read my work-email but I didn't reply to it. And the best part was, when colleagues called me they wouldn't talk about work! "Get better first", they told me.

I love my job and the people I work with.

I run from cell phone towers

[RobinH]

In my last job I was required to carry a cell phone at all times - one of the Nextel phones with the push-to-talk feature. I deliberately went on vacation in places where the cell phone wouldn't work or I wasn't "allowed" to take it: other continents, up in the mountains, etc.

But I knew a lot of guys who just took a week off, stayed around home, and left their cell phone on and even took calls. I'd never to that. I would also never call a person on vacation. Nobody is that important. Once you realize that if you died tomorrow, the company would get along just fine without you, it's a lot easier to disconnect without feeling any guilt.

I left that job over 6 months ago, and they're doing just fine without me.

Balancing work and not-work

[seebs]

I don't mind a few interrupts coming in. Last year, I had a vacation, and we stayed in a cozy resort playing with the fireplace. Yeah, stuff happened. I had to talk someone through replacing a malfunctioning UPS, for instance. It was okay, though; the rest of the time, I didn't have to do anything. I've done some writing while on vacation, and it doesn't bug me; a lot of the vacation thing is knowing that I don't have to work, but since I enjoy writing, sometimes I do anyway. Fine by me.

Well...

[Balthisar]

I check my work email even when I'm a longer vacation, because otherwise I'll reach my Exchange server limit and then bounce something that I'll regret having missed. Most of it on vacation is non-relevant, so mostly it's just a matter of cleaning up. (In July while on vacation, though, checking my email gave me the chance to get a ridiculously expensive grill for a song. I won't go into details; I'm just thrilled that I wasn't incommunicado).

For phone, I actually don't mind staying in touch because I request an international roaming phone from work... meaning I always have free cellular while in Mexico as long as I'm willing to talk business when necessary. Most people are very conscientious that we're on vacation, so it's really very little interruption.

Finally, we don't get nearly enough days, but (1) we can "buy" up to two extra weeks, and (2) overtime pay is rare but we're pretty good about comp. time. No, really, we are. I work for a fantastic company, despite the others' grumbling about OT pay (count your blessings and all that).

Re:I'm glad your company isn't a provider of mine

[JavaRob]

An interesting dilemma. Some people are complaining about how their company limits their vacation days, to which the answer tends to be "start your own or suck it up". Yet here comes something like this, just to keep people on their toes, should they fall for believing that they can go it alone.

I guess the answer to "how do I succeed in life?" is "You don't, LOL!"

It doesn't work that way. You don't have to land big fish to survive. If you are starting a business completely solo (i.e., not even with a handful of friends), you simply DON'T try to provide any kind of 24-7/365 support. *Any* company would be foolish to hire you (because you'd be a fool to offer it!). Fortunately, there are plenty of services you can offer without including 24-7, 365 days-a-year support... or you can subcontract out the support component, etc. etc..

Perhaps you've heard the phrase "starting small": this is what people are talking about. If you're a network guy, you would start out supporting networks that are only active during the workday and shut down during the holidays, for instance (you can even handle contracts with decent-sized schools on this principle), or you would do contract jobs (for instance where a small business needs help getting their network set up or upgraded, but won't need instant support if something goes wrong... and probably can't afford that level of support anyway).

If your business grows and you get some employees (who can handle things for each other during vacations!), then you can consider bigger support contracts.

The other route, of course, is somehow getting lots of funding and *launching* your business with scads of employees. Possible, but apparently sometimes dangerous.

It isn't just debt, it's also kids

[jhylkema]

What's the most reason people stay in jobs they hate? "Well, I have a family to think about . . . " That's right, once you decide to make a genetic copy of yourself, then they really have you.

A lot of the world's problems would be solved if people would simply stop having kids for awhile. Me, I live a childfree lifestyle and couldn't be happier. The only regret I have about getting fixed is that I didn't do it sooner.

Re:I'm glad your company isn't a provider of mine

[tcb2e]

There's an old saying, "The graveyard is full of indispensable people."

We're not as important as we think we are.

Re:I'm glad your company isn't a provider of mine

[tverbeek]

I used to read a comic strip that had a running gag several years ago about 24-hour diner that was staffed by a single person. So she never got to sleep... get it? Sounds like the exact same mistake.

My usual voicemail

[Slashdot Parent]

Ever since I started work, my usual voicemail message while on vacation is the following: Say I was on vacation until 12/4/06, "This is Bob with Bob's Widgets. I'm on vacation until Monday, December 4. If you need to get ahold of me urgently, please leave a message, and I will return your call on Monday, December 4."

No can do, colonel !

[unity100]

Impossible. Internet is my lifeline.

Tons of once-acquintance, now very close friends who have been met over the internet, clients, colleagues, buddies, communities, relatives are in it.

even if you are thousands of miles away from each other it still creates a feeling of being together. there are times that you feel the need to actually close down all instant messengers in order to feel 'alone'. theres some connection with the people on your list who never message you, you never message them, but you see they coming online and they see you, especially if your lists are 2-3 years old. you still know them, they know you. you talk 2-3 times a year maybe, and small chitchat, however you still are somehow together.

Do not understand the question

[canadian_right]

I'm not quite sure I understand what is being asked. Are you saying that there are people who take vactions then still call the office and check their work email everyday? Why would you do that? Unless it's a very small company, every job has at least one competant backup. Management signed off on your vactions time, that means everything is under control and you can forget work and enjoy life. Even if it isn't under control, it isn't likely isn't your responsability. Do I sound cynical? Hey, my company has zero loyalty to its employees. They get what they pay for from me, and nothing else. I'm not spending my time on work when I know work spends zero time worrying about me. Even if you have a more enlightened employer, you should STILL not worry about work. A good vaction makes you a better employee. You get to "recharge the batteries" on a good vaction. If you are calling in everyday it isn't a vaction - it's telecommutting.

Unless you own the business, what could possibly motivate you worry about work, much less actually take time out of your day to login and check your email? I like my job, but it is still just a way to earn money so I can enjoy my life outside of work. Some lucky people might have jobs they truly find fufilling, but I'm not that lucky.

Now, I have to admit that I do carry a cell phone and work can get a hold of me in an emergency when I'm on vacation, but it has never even ocurred to me that I might want to contact work while on vaction. Why would I? I'm on vacation - the point of which is enjoy myself, not worry about someone else's business.

So, what kind of person does this odd thing? Why do they do it?

I haven't taken more than a weekend in years

[NaturallyCurly]

I'm an entrepreneur w/ a very small company. Taking more than 4 days at a time is very difficult, if not possible. But I know I need to make it a priority, and hope to do that next summer. We hope to have angel investment by that time, and therefore more staff who can give the founders more breathing room.