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Blogging in Iran Takes Courage
netbuzz writes "This morning's Boston Globe has a thought-provoking profile of Iranian bloggers who are risking everything, quite literally, to bring a modicum of openness and truth to a society where the former is not tolerated and the latter strictly defined by government/religious authorities."
Takes courage too, look at the dixie chicks. Anything that is not favored by another is deemed to be "unamerican".
...myspace, and the governments wouldn't argue, what with the almost constant maintainence going on there disallowing many users to log in....
This story makes me so mad that I want to throw the big Newspeak Dictionary at the image of Emmanual Goldstein (aka Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) during today's Two Minutes Hate.
Middle-America?
Good. Cheap. Fast. Pick Two.
Human Rights Watch Iran
Amnesty International Iran
Take your jaded world weariness and shove it up your ass. The USA has problems, but comparing it to Iran with a smirk and a shrug is the opposite of helpful.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Ah it's good to see that families are the same the world over. Even in Iran parents don't want to take responsibility for raising their own children.
-Grey
Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
Figures. The first two comments are likening Iran to the US. As if there were any comparison between Iranian blogging, where honest journalism is overtly illegal if it's slanted too hard against the government, and American blogging, where every politician of note is compared to Hitler or Stalin on a daily basis. Get some perspective.
...but is it art?
Dec 3, 2006 Prayed to Allah, nearly got ran over by Rasheed's goat cart again...damn him to hell, he will never learn to go 5 in a 10 zone down in the market!! Dec 5, 2006 Prayed to Allah, fell down the well fetching water for making bread, was stuck for nearly 3 hours before Ramsi rescued me on the way to the stoning Dec 7, 2006 I SAW AN ANKLE TODAY!! Allah be praised, it was a sexy ankle too!! It had no hair, and the skin was just a little dry and flaky!! I nearly lost control and crashed my bicycle into a cart full of figs.....I must go and relieve this stirring in my loins!!!
Yeah, my karma sucks....but so do the mods.
But is he able to Opera?
Why do I get the impression that if high-speed internet access was banned in YOUR homes, you guys would (probably literally) be up in arms about it and not just making remarks on a forum?
This story makes me so mad that I want to throw the big Newspeak Dictionary at the image of Emmanual Ahmadinejad during today's Two Minutes Hate.
Are you going to wake up in a cold sweat tonight, truly and honestly afraid that that bump in the night was caused by government agents coming along to disappear you as a result of posting that?
Or are you expecting to be up-modded, congratulated, and generally receive social approval?
Wake me when the answer to the first is a non-rhetorical yes.
In the meantime, while life in the US isn't perfect, after six continuous years of screeching I'm getting a serious "crying wolf" vibe.
No, in the US they don't explicitly censor bloggers they don't agree with, they just mod them 'troll' until their posts are invisible.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
Not to mention the complete collapse of the porn and MMOG industries.
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex. I could pinch them."
Marvin the Martian
It's a good thing...you have your head screwed on just right.
oh wait!...
Yeah, like, have a singer express her honest opinion of the leader of the good ol' free world.
Sometimes it seems people welcome the mob to control their thoughts and lives...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Right now. Just give it some time though. A very large percentage of US Citizens have made it quite clear that they are perfectly happy to live under an authoritarian regime with overt religious tendencies.
The Boston Globe says "Stop using blogs"
View my previous posts as a fine example! Still prefer that to having my typing fingers cut off though!
(Granted, some of my posts may qualify as troll, but most do not by far!)
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
We are only as advanced as the level of freedom we permit our fellow man. On the whole, we as a species are still monkeys swinging in the trees. How can we expect to flourish throughout the galaxy, beyond this earth, if we cannot live in peace with ourselves. Sigh....there's so much more out there for us than to destroy ourselves. We need a good kick in the collective pants.
Yeah, like, have a singer express her honest opinion of the leader of the good ol' free world.
/.?
I presume you are taking about Natalie Maines? Have we cut her tongue out yet?
Sometimes it seems people welcome the mob to control their thoughts and lives...
Like here on
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Would you consider book burning to be repressive?
Is running over CDs with a bulldozer analogous? That's what happened at a rally arranged, not by "their own fans", but by Cumulus Media, which controls 262 radio stations nationwide.
Clear Channel stations, not Dixie Chicks fans, banned them from the airwaves. Clear Channel owns 1,225 radio stations. That's almost as effective as government censorship, without the icky court battles. Clear Channel denies any involvement in the anti-Dixie Chicks rallies organized by many of their stations (but nobody else's).
Reference: The Columbia Journalism Review.
Clear Channel vice chairman Tom Hicks is a longstanding very good friend of George W. Bush.
>the Dixie Chicks were not put to death
I take little comfort in the fact that nobody has carried out the death threats.
I'm sure Iran is not exactly a bastion of free expression, but I've seen plenty of Iranian people who have been interviewed on camera criticizing the Iranian government and calling them all a bunch of idiots. Then there was the recent case of Iranian students jeering the President, burning a picture of him, and throwing fireworks (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1 462_2043334,00.html). That's not the sort of thing you do if you are terrified of your government. Iraqis would certainly never have dared do that to Saddam Hussein (backed by the US et al, for many years), and Iranians would probably not have dared do it to the brutal US/UK-backed Shah of Iran either.
I've worked with a number of people from around the Middle East and all of them said that Saudi Arabia was far worse than Iran. Perhaps it would be wise to tackle the most oppressive countries first.
I have no idea whether Iranian police normally herd student protesters into "Free Speech" Zones well away from President Ahmadinejad, as is common practice in the US. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone) or whether the Iranian government enforces huge protest exclusion zones in Tehran, using the threat of terrorism as some kind of bizarre justification. In the UK there is a half-mile protest exclusion zone around parliament, which was introduced in 2005, 2 years after a million angry citizens marched outside Parliament in full view of the media. Maya Evans, a woman who read out the names of dead soldiers within the zone was arrested, charged and convicted of breaching the "Serious Organised Crime and Police Act" by staging an unauthorised protest. I think it was Chomsky who said "The worst enemy of a government is its own population". It's certainly beginning to seem that way.
"Yeah, like, have a singer express her honest opinion of the leader of the good ol' free world."
I haven't heard of any singers being arrested, or audited, or denied visas for anti-Bush comments. Some singers have lost market share as a result of airing views that shocked their customers. That's the risk you take in a free market, nobody has to buy your stuff.
If you piss off a large enough segment of the market, advertisers won't want to have their products associated with you, because they think it will hurt them. So, you can lose positive media exposure for your work at the same time you are getting negative media exposure for your views.
Free speech is a right. Risk-free commercial speech is not.
If 'the people' in Amendment 2 are 'the state' then Amendments 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 benefit the state, not you.
A counter statement might be "what goes around comes around".
Or, a history lesson: empires rise and empires fall. Be nice to people on the way up, and they might be nice to your children as your country declines in importance.
The unholy trinity. This is the real Axis of Evil.
These three nations are deliberately provoking each other to war. Lets get rid of some pretensions. It's about resources, nothing to do with spreading democracy or a War on Terror. It's all about control of resources, particularly oil.
The Iranians know that America can't afford another conventional ground war, Iraq is already destroying the US economy. Iran is using Israel to provoke the US into overextending itself, there's a load of talk about replacing Israel with an Islamic state which is pure provocation to Israel, who retaliate by announcing that Iran has a nuclear weapon programme able to produce a bomb within 3 years. Both are trying to get the US involved. Which is quite convenient for the US because Iran has huge oil reserves and they're planning to sell them for Euros, not dollars. Doing so will cause the US economy further damage, causing the dollar to slide further.
Iran wants a guerilla ground war to bring the US to it's knees, Israel wants the US to give Iran a kicking for them, with a nuclear response if necessary and the US wants to make sure the oil remains tradable for dollars, so preventing soaring inflation in the US. So, everyone's spoiling for a fight, which is very dangerous, this is how world wars start.
Deleted
Invisiblog took submissions by Mixmaster email and used gpg signing as the authentication mechanism. They seem to be defunct as of about a year ago. The eelbash anonymous remailer announced a replacement, but the page for that is 404 now.
Correct, and if I may add:
No matter what "intellegence" you get from a subject of torture, it is not going to be helpful because the subject will tell you whatever you want to hear. If you ask someone the location of a terrorist cell, and they actually don't know, they are as good as dead in a place like Guantanamo. This lack of knowledge may not save their life, but on the other side of the electrode is the American soldier who is asking the questions. Whatever blubberings this victim may give you will be totally counterproductive and will not help further any military objective, they will be garbage intellegence. And we all know,
Garbage in = garbage out.
Try asking nicely.
With respect to all people everywhere who fight tyranny and try to make real one of the most blessed gifts God has given us, our freedom.
Good luck and best wishes, bloggers.
Your Amnesty International link seem to be to the 2003 report. It would probably also be a good idea to provide the links the US reports as well, since you are (presumably) doing a comparison. A good summary is that you don't want to be in the wrong group in either country:
Iran:
amnesty international
human rights watch
US:
amnesty international
human rights watch
It's also worth remembering, whenever Iran is being discussed, that the present government is a fairly direct outcome of Operation Ajax, in which the US and Britian overthrew the original (and very progressive) Iranian democratic government and installed a very brutal dictator (the Shah) because Iran planned to nationalize its oil (which was the result of, amongst other things, them being denied the right to even audit British Petroleum's books).
You are the president.
The Iranians compare their leader to Hitler, but it's considered a compliment!
...they've dragged out their Commodore 64s, gotten some help from a guy named Junis to get them connected, and are blogging while watching "Baywatch" and "Temptation Island". Through all this, they're providing their own voices from the hellmouth.
I hope Iranian bloggers are not using Opera.
Tat Tvam Asi
funny & true!
The ends justify the means.
No they don't, because the ends, as in the effect, are a consequence of the means, as in the cause.
So if the ends you want are peace and democracy, and your means are violence and torture, then the ends you get are a non-stop insurgency, civil war, and lawlessness that will at best settle into a theocratic state run by the personal militias of religious extremists.
Are you paying attention to the news? What you are seeing is cause and effect. Are these the ends that you desired? No? Well guess what -- that's why the ends don't justify the means, because you don't get to pick what end your means will achieve! Wishing that torturing random people accused of being terrorists will bring peace and harmony doesn't make it so, and if it isn't obvious to you at this point it never will be because you are deliberately avoiding anything resembling a fact.
Well let me clue you in a little: Abu Ghraib had consequences. Very bad, very tragic consequences. While hardly the lone example of your misplaced philosophy, the fact is that those means have seriously damaged our ends, such that they are probably unachievable. The ends, whether you like it or not, stemmed directly from the means, and hence those means cannot be justified.
The enemies of Democracy are
Opera uses YOU!
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
In theory, the rapture could happen at any second and they'll all vanish. I was going to start a petition to get the ball rolling, but I didn't know where to submit it.
I'm surprised that this book isn't mentioned anywhere in the Wikipedia article's references or bibliography. For anyone with an even passing interest in the parent post's claim that we (the USA that is) put the Shah in power, you'll find the book informative. I wasn't interested when I started the book, but it's well-written and tough to put down.
Here is a very comprehensive paper on the state of internet access in Iran. Executive summary: it's one of the few nations on par with China in that category. If you've got better information do share.
Whoever modded this flamebait needs to switch to decaf. That's some funny shit.
Politicians are like diapers - they should be changed frequently and for the same reasons.
Would you be satisfied that people are not crying wolf if something clear-cut were to happen, like, say, hypothetically, someone sent to Guantanamo for three years for a satirical opinion piece?
I'd be satisfied that people are not crying wolf if people weren't constantly pulling stories from three years ago, but three weeks ago.
We aren't going to live in a country where no shit ever happens, anywhere. If you take the worst of the worst, and base your opinions on nothing else, you can make anywhere look like a cesspool. I'm increasingly of the opinion that's what's going on.
How many years are we supposed to hold our breath for the jackboot of fascism to fall on all the brave posters of Slashdot, before we start questioning the idea that we're in the grip of some sort of unique evil? Shouldn't we have a few million stories about people being mysteriously disappeared by the Bushitler squads, not the same ten stories repeated over and over and over and over and over?
Yeah Come on, Slashdot too is Washing the minds of all the Americans to make they know how evil is the iranian regime!! I can not beleive how the US is preparing another invasion and making this BULLSHIT news to gain support and acceptance!
Bastards, i don't swallow it. Its all bullshit and make me sick. How is that there were no news about Iran a year ago? Bullshit I say!
Sorry about the rant.
This is more FUD against Iran to justify a war with the country.
...what "ends" are you referring to? A shitty economy? MORE pissed-off Arabs willing to sacrifice themselves in order to avenge their loved ones? (50,429 to 55,926 CIVILIAN DEATHS as compiled from English-language media reports by the Iraq Body Count project. That's over 10x the number of USA civilians killed on 9/11.) Capture of the non-existent weapons of mass destruction? The assassination/capture of Osama that still hasn't happened? The creation of a horribly UNSTABLE, violent Iraqi state?
Why don't you name one fucking good thing that's come of this entire fucking ball of shit and try and convince me it's because we tortured "terrorists".
how bad does a country have to act before you'll comment on it, without the "yeah, but the US also..." bullshit equivocation???
This is making me dizzy...Why wouldn't everyone just use Linux?!
Go back to sleep...I'm certain that it was the latter. Like any of these little scaredy-pusses would actually post any of this shit if there were a problem.
Actually, even though that there is ridiculous, it's even more asinine. It seems that sex scandals only matter if the media doesn't like your political party at the moment. For example, Foley was ousted recently due to some obscene IMs sent to teenagers.
But when a Democrat named Jerry Stubbs actually had sex with a teenager back in the '80's, there was no such uproar, no ousting, no resignation. In fact, he went on to continue serving in Congress, and was reelected many times afterward.
Lets pretend I am a Republican. Let us also pretend that I am an awesome punk rocker that all the punks love. One day I get up on stage and start railing against how stupid it is to be pro-choice, let gays merry, or have weak drug laws. What do you think happens? My fans would get pissed off, no matter how much they like my music.
Look, if you are a celebrity, you are taking a risk every time you come out and make a political statement. It isn't like you are analyst with access to CIA intelligence or an economist whose understands the deep inner workings of the economy. You are one stupid person in 6 billion who just so happens to perform some form of art good enough (or at least marketed enough) that a lot of people appreciate. You are not an authority on anything other than your art. If you take an invitation to express your art as an invitation to express your political opinions, fans will rightfully we get pissed off that you are wasting their time spewing your self righteous stuck up opinion. They don't like you for your opinion, they like you for your art. Get over it.
The Dixie Chicks took the stage, looked their fan base in the eye, and told them all that they were stupid for liking Bush. Now, I might not agree with the stupid red necks, and I might not like Bush, but I am unsurprised and unsympathetic about the treatment Dixie Chicks received. If they want to be politicians, they should be politicians. If they want to be well loved stars, they should work on maintaining the love. Part of maintaining the love is not preaching to your fans the exact opposite of what they believe. The moral of the story is that if you make a living by having millions of red necks loving you, don't call them stupid. Either accept that they are going to stop liking you and make your speeches, or in the words of our fine internet generation STFU.
Finally, free speech is just that; free speech. Free speech means that I can turn to a democrat and call him a pussy ass terrorist lover with the fighting constitution of a Frenchman because he wants to pull out of Iraq. I can turn to a Republican and call him a racist, women hating, vile little bigot who won't be happy until every black person is back on a plantation and women have their feet bound and clits circumcised. I can also flick off the Dixie Chicks, call their music pure shit, and swear to never listen to their crap again because they are a bunch of flaming liberals who want queers and terrorist running around the street.
This is free speech.
People need to harden themselves up a little and get over it. Free speech includes name calling and telling people who disagree with you to fuck off. Free speech does not imply rational debate or a thoughtful and open mind (though free speech certainly helps those things). Free speech is for racist KKK shit heads, neonazis, stupid red necks, whiny little pop punk bands, brain dead pop artist, self righteous actors living in mansions hypocritical to their beliefs, and all the people who hate all the above and would sooner plug their ears with their fingers if they were not busy using them to give a big two handed New York hello.
This is mother fucking free speech. No one said that it was nice.
There are thoughtcrimes in Europe also. Try living in Germany and voicing a non-sanctioned opinion on, or even just pose the wrong question about - the Holocaust. Yes, the one with the capital H.
That may very well land you in prison for a long long time.
Free speech and thought ought to reign supreme everywhere, but it doesn't. No matter what the opinion or message is, who it may offend or who may get generally upset by it - nothing should be banned from being printed, stated, or otherwise communicated. No fact, historical event, or assumption should be illegal to question.
The US may not have gotten as far with killing free speech, but give the repubocrats a while longer and we will soon not only catch up with Europe, but probably surpass and become even more draconian.
Bash Iran all you want for being oppressive, but stop being so f:ing ignorant of what is going on in the west, in our own backyards.
Free speech is an all-or-nothing idea. It ceases to exist the moment it is encroached on, even if ever so little.
Sam has one liberty, which he sacrifices for one security. Can you tell me what Sam has now?
They got death threats. Do you have any more questions? Stop pretending that left-wingers are enraged that the fan base didn't embrace them and convert to communism or whatever the right thinks the left's fantasy is this week. My reaction to Limbaugh and Coulter is pretty gut-level, and I have a right to that reaction, but I don't have a right to make death threats.
What about posting profiles on **openhuman** ?
I spent 3 weeks backpacking around Iran in May last year.
Their blocking system is fairly limited. Each ISP implements its own set of manually updated filters (not a central blocking system like China). I was trying to access certain sites -- www.sitename.com might work at one place but be blocked at another, though at the other net cafe sitename.com or IP address would often work just fine. I found the blocking policy inconsistent, though not that many sites were blocked (mainly gay sites were blocked).
Because of the Iran/Iraq war the population is very young -- 70% of Iranians are under 30 according to the Iran Lonely Planet guide. I imagine that'll mean plenty of blogs, whether insightful or the usual blog trash. People were quite politically aware and well educated. The news media seemed no more biased than Fox News in the US!
It's a beautiful country and well worth a visit. Persepolis is amazing. Tehran was like any other big city -- lots of expensive houses, cars and more liberally dressed women. The latest model mobile phones were available everywhere. I was offered alcohol quite a bit (especially by taxi drivers). It's illegal for Muslims to drink but the Christian and Jewish population are able to drink. Incidently, Iran has the highest Jewish population in the Middle East outside of Israel.
I didn't know much about Iran before visiting, I'm just glad I went. Unfortunately if you're American/British it's difficult (though not impossible) to get a tourist visa unless you're in a tour group. I presume this is due to reciprocal restrictions applied by the UK/US on their citizens.
The last few years there have been fairly low in terms of tourism numbers and people were incredibly friendly to me - offering to take me to their homes for dinner and so on. Plenty of people were critical of their government but were just as critical of the American govt.
Funnily enough I just visited Israel last month and had a 45 minute interrogation because I'd visited Malaysia (a very westernised 70% muslim country). I'm glad I wasn't using the passport with the Iranian stamp in it!
I took photos of the nuclear installation between Kashan & Abyaneh despite the taxi driver panicking I'd get caught (you're not allowed to take photos of military installations). Though you can get a much better view of the place through Google maps!
+100. Had I any moderation points, I'd mod you up Insightful.
The point is of course that no society is ideal. Or to put it better that society is based on some ideal. Different ideals - different societies. For European civilizations common ideal is of course money. Talk is cheap so we count all in money. The ideal behind Asian civilizations... I do not know. Notably, unlike us, they value what people are saying and lying (what is perfectly Ok in EU/US) is more or less regarded as crime in Muslim world. Anybody who has friends from e.g. Iran obviously have noticed that.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Read more about it @ http://www.ahmadinejad.ir/ blog
If I was a US citizen and started a blog against the US government and its policies, how long would it take before CIA rung my bell? ...wait a minute, there is someone at the door...
Yet what I don't see mentioned here is that Iran had a pretty good democracy going until the CIA worked to overthrow their elected leader and put a jackbooted dictator in his place to get their hands on some oil.
We've been getting blowback from this ever since, but most people in the USA don't know we're paying for the actions of unscrupulous spooks and their handlers.
> Is there a Christian equivalent country where we can send our fundies?
:-P
It is called the "United States of America".
Oh please. If it happened three weeks ago, you'd be asking for an incident less than three days old.
If you're waiting for fascism to suddenly appear out of thin air and turn the US into Oceania overnight, you're eventually going to notice it long after it is too late. Fascism creeps up on you - inch by inch. And to stop it, it's not helpful if you ignore each of these inches as far too trivial to matter.
No thanks! We already have Fred Phelps, and trust me, most of "Middle-America" would be happy to send him to the Middle East and let their fundies deal with him.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
It is somewhat ambiguous.
Doesn't that just make you sick. Ever since 9/11 you hear people say crap like that. When I hear those words my blood just boils. I tell them that I am an Air Force veteran and served proudly during the first Gulf War but just because I don't agree with something now doesn't mean I'm against America. Now I am neither Democrat or Republican but I do blame the Republican President for starting that little "if you disagree with us you're for the terrorists" line of BS. Ponderous!
IMHO, IANAL, TINLA, etc...
I hope some day we find the ability to broadcast high-strength connections to countries where the Internet is filtered. If only we could make it as easy as getting a wireless card you could connect anywhere in the world unfiltered, then all information would truly be free.
I gotta have more cowbell.
But if you, as a parent, believe that it is wrong for your children to be exposed to pornography, then it is complete fucking impossible to bring them up right in modern liberal society without enclosing them in a solid steel cube...
Put the computer in the family room or some other room with public foot traffic and walk by occasionally. You can also buy some very effective filtering software which allows *you* to make the choice of what content you get filtered to your home and not your government.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
> If tortured enough (and HERE's a classic example) you can get someone to admit that 1+1=3.
There are FOUR LIGHTS!
Of course there are other exceptions to free speech, including copyright protection, the Miller test for obscenity and regulation of advertising. There is also the FCC - Federal Communications Commission - whose sole job is to regulate the world we see on radio and TV.
Free speech is a fine, fine line. We occasionally jump back and forth on the issue, but the truth of the matter is that free speech is only free until it infringes on someone else's rights. Also:
FYI, since not everyone is from the US here, internationally, the free speech is applied this way:
(wikipedia.com)
Just another reminder that religion is always repression.
Only on Slashdot will you find extreme anti-US sentiment while reading an article about Iran. Fucking amazing.
I hope...I pray...that the US again has a chance to save the world and I hope that when that time comes we say, "Fuck You Assholes - handle it yourself!!". I would love to see practically every European shitbag of a country blown to nothingness and its people wiped-out like the slugs they have become.
And, I never would have imagined saying this, but that also goes for the fookin' UK too! At one time, I cherished the UK because I thought she was our dear friend and ally, but no longer.
Flip your point around. When are things good enough not to panic?
If you end up proposing a standard that can't be met, then why should I care?
If you propose a standard that can be met, are you sure that it isn't already met?
Iran is far more progressive than most people know. This is primarily because of the biased reporting by the western media. Iran is one of the few middle-eastern states with a democracy, and also the only one which has allowed women to take on important political positions.
Heck, they even had a lady vice president - something which the US still hasn't!
Iran has just had a round of elections and the Ahmadinejad's government has lost a lot of seats because the Iranian people are losing patience with his desire to inflame the middle-east when the economy itself is in shambles.
All this indicates a fairly strong democracy; and even considering the fact that there is, no doubt, not much openness to dissenting opinion, it is still a far cry from America's primary muslim-majority, middle-eastern ally Saudi Arabia.
Iran and Iraq have both had strong democracies in the past, and these have been mostly undone by the fact that US installed dictators in the place of elected ministers. However, Iran has still managed to retain a democracy.
Conversations with various friends of different nationalities suggest that the UK might have done a better job than the French or the Belgians when retreating from their empires - it would be interesting to examine this further; I think the USA would be wise to learn from these countries mistakes. Anecdotally, it's been suggested that the former colonies of UK are more well disposed towards their occupiers than those of France or Belgium due to some (and definitely not all) of their actions.