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Nokia's Linux-powered N800 Tablet Sneaks Out
sjvn writes "Officially, Nokia Inc.'s new Linux-powered N800 Internet Tablet doesn't exist. In reality, it's already for sale in the United States and boasts double the RAM and Flash Memory of its predecessor and it has a faster processor to boot."
Will it totally replace the 770, or will it be a big brother?
I hope it brings the 770 price down a touch, its just over my novelty price bracket at the moment.
liqbase
more information at http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/
I hope it features a powered USB connector (unlike the 770)
as the link in the submission doest even have any pics just fluff leading to the real article here (with pics)
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.htm
I'd be curious to see how fast this unit runs in real life. I purchased a 770 to run small flash presentations/slide shows, and it performed rather dismally. Not the market I'm sure, and I love the concept, but if your going to have an internet/s tablet it needs to be able to see typical content...
What about just the lightest, foldable-smallest, cheapest tablet that is just a high FPS streaming/VoIP/VNC client with WiFi? Everything else but the AGUI can go on a server, if the WiFi can keep the streams over 24FPS and the audio over 80Kbps, with minimal jitter and framedrops.
--
make install -not war
I had a 770 for a little while, but it was just too slow and unstable to really enjoy. When it wasn't crashing, it was often too slow to do anything really cool with besides surfing the web. Even that was pretty slow. I hope for the sake of the N800 that it has really addressed a lot of that because it would make for a killer gadget for a lot of people. In fact, if they have addressed most of those issues, I might get one.
What I am curious about is the processors in some of the PocketPC handhelds like the Axim are pretty powerful. Why didn't they go for similar hardware specs in the first place with the 770? With those, they might have been able to get embedded Qt instead of Gtk.
Better photos over here
Well, let's hope that it's not too drunk when it comes home. That N800 is a hell-raiser, for sure. It's girlfriend is a pink Sony Ericsson but its parents would never approve of a mixed relationship.
At least the price point is within reach. I'm looking forward to it! Esp. all the hacks that are sure to come down the pipe! SSH to my server and get some work down from the crapper!
One of the people who owns one has posted a video of it booting and some general use. It looks slick.
It all comes down to the developer community.
Do remember that ultraportables deliberately sacrifices performance in favor of battery life. They'll always be inferior to bigger machines in raw processing power.
That said, I would think that a 220 MHz processor would be fine for most Flash presentations. Perhaps the ARM implementation of the plugin is less robust than the Pentium version. Or perhaps you're doing fancy animation that overtaxes the system.
And don't make the usual mistake of fixating on the CPU as the sole provider of application performance. Any application uses many different resources, and a bottleneck in any of them (in graphics applications, it's usually the video adapter, not the CPU) will screw you over.
anyone any idea if it supports voip calls (sip or h323) ??
Not a phone. That thing you can see in some pictures sticking out on the left is the foldable stand, not an antenna.
You can use a BlueTooth keyboard, at the expense of battery life. If they made the USB controller act as a "host" (it does not in the 770), you could use a USB keyboard. None included in the package, anyway.
dakkar - mobilis in mobile
> Here's a question, will it be a cellphone out of the box and take sim cards?
Your question is asked anytime this product is mentioned. NO! The second it is a cellphone it will be a closed platform, the cell carriers won't accept an open phone on their networks, period full stop. Use bluetooth to talk to a cellphone to get net or do VoIP via 802.11.
> And keyboards of some kind.
One word, BlueTooth. Really, this is why they invented Bluetooth, so why reinvent the wheel?
> Heck, even a video out port, use the thing like a tiny desktop at home plugged in to the wall.
It isn't a video iPod, it doesn't have a hard drive so it won't be carrying around your media library. From a multimedia pov it is a playback frontend.
I haven't bought one yet but I have been drooling. I like the fact they have now done a product refresh and avoided doing the kitchen sink thing, it keeps it small and allows reasonable battery life. They do appear to have heard the loudest complaints, memory and cpu speed.
Democrat delenda est
I have a 770. First off, it's brilliant device, I love it. Definitely using it on my next long-haul flight rather than the built-in video players on airplanes. (I wouldn't use the built in video player, but mplayer has been ported to it and plays 400x240 movies full screen [hardware pixel doubling to fill the 800x480 display] at full fps, 128k audio, and about 500k video. Very watchable, and a full-length movie fits on a 1GB MMC with plenty of room left over for a couple of TV shows.) And of course there are various PIM style apps available for it over at maemo.org, not to mention VNC, xterm, ssh, ...
From what information we currently have (including the pics and video referenced above), I have to say I think they've addressed several of the biggest issues with the unit, specifically:
From the good close look we get at the connectors in the video nursegirl linked to, the USB connector is still unpowered. Frankly, I'm not sure how big an issue this really is. Yes, it means you can't use your existing USB keys with it even if you had an adapter cable, which -- true -- is less than ideal. In terms of other devices, you wouldn't want to power an external keyboard of the poor little 770's battery -- you're better off getting a little portable Bluetooth keyboard. I haven't felt the lack of the power on the USB port yet.
Looks like a great upgrade, good to see Nokia thought it was worth pursuing the product line... I hope the next focus is on software -- improving the handwriting recognition, doing some Nokia-tested and certified PIM apps (calendar, etc.), improving the little desktop area, etc. Doing this device with Linux, documenting the API, and fostering a development community were all masterstrokes, but you can't leave everything to the community, too many users won't be able to handle the complexity (not to mention that, er, some ports are done better than others...).
I second you, brother, as a compatriot. Under the equator line it's quite hard to get a decent portable computer at a decent price. The best PDAs we have are those (*argh*) microsoft-based ones. Palm's LifeDrive, besides being expensive, totally suck stability-wise. If the guys at hackndev.org make WiFi work with Linux on it, however, I'll buy another LifeDrive in a snap. Zaurus are even harder to find here in Brazil than in U.S., and I believe Sharp is missing an important market by keeping us out of the market. The Nokia 770 looks beautiful, has a nice form factor and runs Linux to boot, but it's pretty underpowered, with too little memory. I wish they put a 4 gig microdrive on it a la LifeDrive, with a reasonable price (if they kept it under R$ 2500 I'd buy it; I believe something about US$ 400.00 in the US, not counting taxes and freight tariffs).
Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
Go with a Zire 72 if you can find one. It's a LifeDrive without the suck.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
I hope there is some kind of Psion 5-sized usb-keyboard. If those two could be combined in some kind of holder, I'm sold. (The Psion 5 has always been my favourite in size and usability, because of the excellent keyboard. I've used it for about five years, but then the display broke, and the replacement broke in less then a year.)
I am provocative here, but think about it, in terms of specs not target. The specs are VERY similar. Yes, the form factor is different, but many things are definitively similar. The biggest difference is the price, Nokia being 2.5x more expensive. Is it really worth? I hope OLPC will show that you can produce these tablets at reasonable price and drive the overall market price down.
After reading this thread and the lined stories (yeah, i RTFAd), i called CompUSA who confirmed that the store closest to me had 7 in stock - despite it not yet being on their web site. i drove down to the store and the employee i talked to said it didn't exist - and as proof, pointed to their web site. i recounted the call to CompUSA, including that i'd clarified with the guy on the phone that it was an N800, not an N80 (a common mistake); the guy called his manager, who checked some other inventory system that only managers have access to (why? who knows.), which confirmed 7 in stock. the manager went into the back store room, found the 7, but informed me that they've got stickers on 'em saying they can't sell them before tuesday, or risk a fine. they took my name and will hold one for me to pick up on tuesday.
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
Seriously, if it can do USB host, then I am sold. It can then be a hand-held oscilloscope, handy terminal (via USB->RS232 adapter) for embedded devices, etc.
I can't speak to how good this looks on the device, but it looks ok and sounds ok for TV output on my linux box.
I use ffmpeg to transcode DVDs to mpeg to play on my Treo 650. The Treo is not an ideal platform for video playback.
Completely separate subject, I'm having trouble getting matrixview to work. I think reencoding a video in matrixview for this device would be sorta cool.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
The thing sticking out of the left is the camera, not the stand.
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
...have not changed - my new 770 off ebay gets here tomorrow, dammit...oh well...
you think it's easy, but you're wrong...
The last year (over the summer to be exact), I bought a 770. The idea was to used it with a bluetooth cellular phone to connect internet. As a linux user, that seemed to be the logical choice. Over the one week period I owned 770, it only once worked more than 10 minutes. Other than that, it crashed frequently, even when booting itself. I tried several firmware, the one shipped with 770, the updated one from nokia website and another one from maemo. Before buying I read the reviews and I found that nearly half of the 770s had similar problems. I guess my geekness factor overweighted my concoisness and I bought one regardless. The turned out that I was one of the unlucky owners. I returned it back to CompUsa, instead bought T-Mobile MDA and I'm happy so far with Windows Mobile especiall to access the internet both over my laptop and phone. The nice thing was, Amazon had a deal that let me bought the phone for $50 :)
The problem is that Nokia is a cell phone company, and the 770 seems to be a side project that gets little support. Nokia needs to back the product line for it to be successful. The Nokia 800 will likely be another dud simply because Nokia defines itself as a cell phone manufacturer.
I have a Nokia 770 sitting here that I bought as a project for work as we are a Linux-based shop. The wifi simply does not work with many routers and the reception seems to be poor when it does work. The Maemo operating system is an interesting variation of Debian but the tablet simply is not fast enough to make it very useful. Finally, the handwriting recognition is a complete joke.
On the plus side, it has a beautiful screen. It has a nice set of software inside it. Too bad it simply does not work.
I should mention that the first Nokia 770 I received was a brick. The Nokia 770 I have is #2. Luckily the vendor took the product back with no hassles. There was not much support from Nokia Canada.
Most people forget that Nokia is a pretty big company with a lot of products. From roots in paper, rubber, and cables, in just over 100 years Nokia became a powerful industrial conglomerate. The corporation also produces telecommunications network equipment for applications such as mobile and fixed-line voice telephony, ISDN, broadband access, voice over IP, and wireless LAN. Not to mention satellite receivers, [Linux based] set-top boxes etc etc.
Yeah, my impression was that all the supposed "we can't let you touch this or you'd screw up our network" stuff can be encapsulated in a separate piece of hardware running unmodifiable firmware, and the chip that actually runs linux (or whatever) would get some sort of serial modem-like interface to that hardware that would let you place calls and transfer data and so on without having to know all the details of how the radio network works.
> ..encapsulated in a separate piece of hardware running unmodifiable firmware, and the chip that actually runs linux (or whatever) would
> get some sort of serial modem-like interface..
So if you stick a phone and the computer in the same housing but otherwise seperate them they will allow em to share the screen and battery. Wow. If your carrier even allows a phone they didn't sell onto their network... if it is compatible with their network. And when a new high speed service appears you replace both the phone AND the computer. Just doesn't make sense. Let it talk to the phone which can stay in your pocket, to a headset, keyboard, etc. Eventually it will talk to your iPod/portable hard drive, etc. It has enough screen real estate to host a good UI, it is what it is good at, don't pile on functions other things can do better.
Democrat delenda est
I'd like to use it for browsing my recipes and playing music mostly, but being able to watch TV, even on a small screen, would be nice, too. But, I see it's an ARM processor, so the atrpms site won't have a precompiled install. Has anyone tried to compile mythtv from source for a Nokia 770 or this new 800?
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
This only happens in North America. Here in Malaysia we have, as an example, the Motorola A1100 that is Linux based and not at all closed.
Nokia's market is not limited to north America by any means.
geek page at KY speaks
Ummm. Nokia is a Finnish company. At least Norway and Finland are close...
I don't therefore I'm not.
Can anyone explain the rationale of using this over the more powerful, more versatile Dell Axim? Prices are comparable at the least, and Dell runs specials often enough to make the 624 mhz x51v version price competitive.
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am master of my fate and captain of my soul.
I did the same as you; called and gave them the item number, and they said they had 2 in stock. When I arrived, they couldn't find it up front, and had to get it from the receiving department, but they did sell it to me no problem.
aaaand...whee!
The N800 appears to be smaller than the 770. Those comparison shots were taken without the cover on the 770. I have a 770 and it I'd say the N800 is slimmer, and even with the cover the 770 easily fits in my jeans and jacket pocket.
The plug on the button of the 770 sucks becuase you cant lay it on your lap or desk while its plugges in. Moving the charging port to the side was one of the first things I would have changed about it.
If you actually used the 770 youd know that the buttons are shit. Now that Nokia has done away with the cover they can make them more pronounced. It would also appear that placing the buttons in the same pad makes them more ergonomic and easier to press without moving your thumb too much. I haven't used the new model so I can't be sure.
I couldn't care less about the color, the fact that it has twice the ram and a cpu boost means that its going to play higher quality movies and multitask without having to choke on the swap. Besides, I'm going to be looking at that massive screen resolution not staring at the faceplate.
Had the 770 (and now the N800) been a cellphone as well, I'd be on this device like flies on ... well, I'd buy one. I had a word with one of the Nokia developers and they couldn't see why having an integrated GSM/GPRS transceiver wouldn't be better than having the 770 AND a separate cellphone communicating with each other either via Bluetooth or what-have-you. The savings on the number of items in ones pockets alone is enough reason to go integrated. Add to that possible incompatibilities with Bluetooth implementations in cellphones, cost-savings (integrated device would be cheaper), ability to function seamlessly between wifi and cellphone networks, etc. and it becomes compelling. And yet the dev guy I spoke with couldn't even see that advantage.
To any analysis, there's always a discussion of pros & cons, and the guy wouldn't even speak of said pros to having a cellphone integrated.
My ideal situation is to have an N800-like device with a GSM/GPRS/EDGE transceiver and a Bluetooth headset for using the device as a phone.
My first palm was a 72, which I traded for a LifeDrive, which, after driving me to the brinks of madness, was stolen. Then I have my current palm, a new zire 72. LifeDrive without the suck, without the WiFi and without the big screen, but better anyway :)
Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
Enjoy.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
here.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I got one of those wifi SD cards. No complaints since, except that means I have to schlep around my SD card separately. When I have my Zire 72, I pretty much want it solely for browsing and a near-perfect emulator of NES, SNES, GB, and Genesis systems.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
It's really too bad you don't know what you're talking about.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Nokia so endeared all of the early adopters of the 770 by dropping all support of the platform and screwing all those customers out of the 300 to 400 dollars they spent. Do you really think they'll treat the people who buy the 800 any better?
The 770 was plagued by poor code, a lot of bugs, updates that had even more bugs than the code it was patching, no customer support and hardware that was broken fresh out of the box at least 50 percent of the time. In short nokia ran a beta test on the market and made the people pay for it, and then offered them nothing in return but a pretty worthless peice of crap.
Anything with windows CE in it is a better option (as much as it pains me to say it), because then youhave something that will actually work with other devices. This was a good idea, but Nokia doesn't have the technical know how, or programming experience to bring it to market. So don't waste your money.
Dont waste your money. Nokia is not technically competant to get the software right, and has a lot of problems with hardware development. Then there is the fact that their support SUCKS, and that they treat their customers like crap.
I bought a 770, I spent a lot of money to buy one and what is nokia doing to me? Screwing me royally. There will be no further updates, and the current software has as many bugs in it as the original release. Many releases of code had even more. Nokia themselves aren't even writing code anymore, it's a bunch of amateurs who aren't very good at it, Nokia gave up on actually having their people write code over six months ago, and even then they had maybe one programmer working on it.
Then there is the complete lack of any programs that will do anything you want to do. Text editors? Nope! anything that works with any MS program out there? Nope. Blue tooth devices? Nope. USB? Nope.
The list goes on and on and on. Save your money, pony up the extra cash for any MS windows CE based device. If I had done that instead of buying the 770 I would be ahead of the game, because now I have a worthless 350 dollar device that isn't even a year old!!!!
I will never buy anything by Nokia again. They sold me a piece of shit that they knew was shit, and now they're abandoning all of their early adopters.
From their "Careline":
Thank you for emailing Nokia Careline.In response to your inquiry, please be advised that the Nokia N800 Internet Tablet will not be released within the Australian market. However, it is released to the European and United States market.
We suggest that you use the following link should you wish to make a purchase online: http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n 800
Kindly be informed that the warranty is limited to the country of purchase.
One good thing about the life drive is that if you smack someone in the head with it..it'll become the death drive..muwahahha.