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Inside the iPhone — 3G, ARM, OS X, 3rd Partyware
DECS writes "After heading off the top ten myths of the iPhone, Daniel Eran of RoughlyDrafted has written a series of articles looking 'Inside the iPhone,' exploring (1) why Apple didn't target faster 3G networks, (2) a substantiated look at how the iPhone is indeed running OS X (contrary to reports that it isn't), and (3) what it means to users and developers, and how ARM is involved, in Mac OS X, ARM, and iPod OS X, and why the supposedly 'closed' system Apple describes for the iPhone won't preclude third party development."
that inside the iPhones is all kinds of little electronics and wires. WOW!
"Open development has both benefits and disadvantages. The reason Linux has made so little impact in the desktop market is largely because a fully open system tends to devolve into anarchy.
"Who supports what? What version is the standard? Where is the commercial incentive to develop for it? Who makes it all work together in a nicely integrated package, and once that happens, it is still open?"
It's all so confusing?!!? Windows, take me away... !!!!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
...but now I have to say it: how many iPhone stories a day are we gonna get on the Slashdot front page, and for how long? This is a hell of a lot of coverage for a mere _phone_ that a) offers no new features not already available on other smartphones, b) is priced mostly out of the market, c) isn't on the market yet, and d) is tied to one carrier.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
This is just more speculation against other speculation.
Can we stop posting these untill we have some real information please.
+----------------- | What is the question!
For Symbian, many of the most interesting apps are unsigned. These are where all the 'innovation' or maybe better put "new ideas" come from. Often in an open source environment. Demanding any signature at all tends to put all development out of reach of these people who are mostly doing it for a hobby and not some limited corporate agenda.
The iPhone may or may not be a flop, but it will definitely be boring. It won't even be a good phone; for example my symbian phone uses a 3rd party app to do automatic VOIP bypass when it notices a cheaper route around. I don't even have to think about it; it just detects the cheaper route; do you think Cingular would allow that?
Why is a mediocre phone getting 10 /.'s a day?
Daniel Eran is an awful writer. He often skirts around the topics to make it appear like he has a point when there is none. Also, he insults his userbase and his peers in a cheap attempt to gain respect. He will tell users about a subject he has no experience with as if he's done a doctorate on it. Steve Jobs must be getting awful tired with those thrice daily blowjobs from him.
"Oh boy"
Toga! Toga! Toga!
...I wonder how much they're paying for all this Slashvertising?
Enough, already. This thing comes out in JUNE, FFS.
Tags != Comments, and -1 (Troll) != -1 (I Would Respond Angrily To This Poster So They Must Be Trolling)
Oh but this isn't an iPhone article... in any meaningful sense.
This "iPhone" will be changed in software by the time the first model ships in June 07, and that is just the first generation.
By the time we get to Gen3, I'll bet everyone saying "Ho Hum, another iPod" and "But it is not 3G", and "No iChat?" are going to have selective memory of what they said a year or two back.
THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING of a new modern, physically simple hardware device to use for computing-communication and Apple is just the one on the leading edge at the moment.
Bring it on!
As for artificial limitations on development: According to a developer I talked to who apparently worked on the iPhone, it will have secure boot; i.e., the bootloader checks to make sure it's booting Apple's OS, and the hardware won't run any bootloader other than Apple's. Obviously Apple is taking a different approach this time compared to, say, the iPod and their Intel Macs. So, I doubt we'll be seeing iPhone Linux or anything like that unless Apple has done something really stupid.
I couldn't possibly fail to disagree with you less.
I'm of the opinion that Slashdot's extensive coverage of the iPhone is warranted by virtue of the enormous public interest in the iPhone as a product. While there is really nothing new in the iPhone (although it is a clever combination of existing technologies), the public interest in it is intense, and if it does indeed live up to its promise and deliver a dramatically improved user interface experience for smartphones and handheld devices, it could become an extremely signficant product. What is terrifying about this prospect, is of course, the fact that the iPhone represents a blatant rejection of everything the FOSS community has been advocating: open platforms, open standards, open source, and user choice. If the iPhone promotes the idea that closed source, closed platform monopolies are cool, then that obviously does not bode well for us. Consequently, there is an obvious need for Slashdot to cover the iPhone as extensively as possible, so that we as a community can (a) better understand the threat that it poses, and (b) get a sense of how best to respond.
People who argue about numbers or bullet points are probably unaware of the bigger picture and what difference customers will actually see.
I can UNDERSTAND why Apple thinks HSDPA is not necessary for their iPhone. Most people will not use it. And the iPhone is not a notebook. But please state the real reason and don't start the "Apple Distortion Field" and try to tell us that EDGE is as fast as 3G. There is a difference and customers WILL actually see it.
In theory EDGE seems almost as fast, but I can assure you that in the real world, HSDPA/3G is the only game in town that FEELS like a normal broadband connection.
I work for mobile phone operator. We have tried to push people to use data services on their mobile devices for years now. Why? Because we charge enormous amounts of money for data and it makes us a lot of money.
In all our commercials we promised people broadband expierience. Up until we had HSDPA/3G, we KNEW that we were fooling everybody. We advertised EDGE-speeds that were only realistic if you live under a GSM-antenna. It's only with HSDPA/3G (and i've done a lot of testing) that we don't have to lie anymore. HSDPA is really fasters and customers notice it (certainly those customers that use their cellphone as a modem for their laptop.
Even HP starts selling notebooks with the HSDPA chip in it. Not EDGE. Why? Because only HSDPA is relly workable. But then again, the iPhone is no notebook, maybe apple prefers putting 3G in its notebooks?
Took a quick look at the article. Many of these 'myths' are really serious issues for a touch screen smart phone getting pitched at this price point. I get to replace my smart phone on the company's nickel soon, and for what $600 gets me, I'll not buy one of these. Point 3, fsk them. An unlocked phone might have been worth that. A locked phone, no way. A smart phone without 3rd party applications? Nope. For anyone thinking of looking at the blog entry...
Myth One: the iPhone is missing EVDO (or some other high end feature) which will stifle adoption.
Myth Two: The iPhone is priced too high. It needs a 2 GB version for $299 lacking phone features.
Myth Three: The iPhone should be sold unlocked, not tied to Cingular service.
Myth Four: The iPhone software is a closed model, therefore the sky is falling.
Myth Five: The iPhone is just a phone with features lots of other phones already have.
Myth Six: Cisco owns the iPhone name, which presents an impossible conundrum of epic proportions.
Myth Seven: Apple will need to port iLife 07 to Windows in order to have a photo viewer for PC users.
Myth Eight: An integrated battery is a significant problem for users
Myth Nine: OMG Scratches
Myth Ten: Apple can't figure out how do do a phone.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
You make an interesting point (re: openness). Are there any companies out there making reference hardware platforms for GSM phones with PDA-like form factors? Perhaps it's time for an "OpenPhone Project" that implements wacky OSS coolness and innovation on top of a reference smartphone design and that can ultimately make its way into the hands of interested manufacturers? I'd be interested in reading about that on the front page of Slashdot...
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Stop complaining and drink the Kool-Aid, dammit.
I am already sick of this cell phone / mp3 player and it isn't even out for 5 more months......
(and don't even get me started on that Cingular mandatory $80+ monthly charge for iPhone service)
Whaaa.... I love the iPhone! How dare you people point out flaws in it. Whaaa!!! Well you are all wrong, see I've created a list of illogical arguements that proves the iPhone is superior in every single way to everything else in the world. Whaaa!!!!
My favorite statement from the article was that the iPhone is not priced too high because other phones that have not been released yet are going to be priced higher. Does this guy work for segway marketing?
I know that every site has iphone news coming out of it's ears, but that's because it is a story worth reporting.
While roughly drafted may be publishing what amounts to just more speculation to fuel the fire, I've found the articles published there before insightful and refreshing.
Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!
how many iPhone stories a day are we gonna get on the Slashdot front page, and for how long?
You posted to this latest Apple iPhone story on the discussion website Slashdot and are complaining why?
That same article explained why: Apple wants the iPhone to work reliably, not to be known as a toy that can load various shareware apps, but which freezes erratically and is plagued with spyware and security hazards.
The Orwellian double-speak is mind-boggling. This is the world according to an Apple fanboy:
A device that can be adapted to do anything within the limits of technology and security: a toy.
A device that does only what Apple product managers and Cingular marketers think you should be allowed to do with it: apparantly, not a toy.
Here's a little trivia: the Apple store uses either Symbol or Intermec-based handheld devices to scan products. These devices run either Palm OS or Windows CE. Apple uses toys to manage its invetory.
It may be leading edge to you, however as someone who's owned an XDA in Europe (and chatted on MSN Messenger when out in the countryside in 2002), it leaves me unimpressed. The Multi-touch screen is impressive, sure, but I didn't have too much trouble with the XDA's stylus and it allowed me to take handwritten notes with decent handwriting recognition.
Apple's stuff may be pretty, but you've got to remember that any cellphone sold in the US is behind the state-of-the-art by 18-24 months at least compared to markets like Europe and Asia. So I'd be careful about bandying about terms like 'leading edge'.
Go somewhere random
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
would be easier to swallow if the phone supported flash(and to a lesser extent java applets). While certainly a ton of dynamic web content can be created without these technologies, a flash player would be able to handle some of the functions that 3rd party apps would have. As it stands, its looking less and less apealling. Maybe they should have stuck with a 12" macbook pro to cater to the portable data heads
Monstar L
That's what Apple is doing right now. If you don't want to read about Apple, turn off that category.
How we know is more important than what we know.
You are wrong, it offers one important feature that other phones don't: integration.
Don't underestimate its importance.
I don't see how some of this criticism isn't true.
Myth 1: the iPhone is missing EVDO (or some other high end feature) which will stifle adoption.
Decent 3G service is not for a niche market or only for the rich. People have shown that high-bandwidth services like streaming video can drive a broadband market. Could we honestly say that broadband Internet access on the desktop hasn't brought with it a range of practical and compelling uses for the general public? Now you'd have that kind of speed wherever you are and in your pocket! Stating outright that people won't need it for their handset is arrogant and short-sighted, the market will decide in the end. TFA also writes that decent 3G service is "overpriced, and not quite ready yet" but my PocketPC handset is over a year old, works great, and is cheaper than the announced price for the iPhone!
Myth Two: The iPhone is priced too high. It needs a 2 GB version for $299 lacking phone features.
How is the iPhone not expensive when compared to other phones? The $499 and $599 prices are with the two-year contract! That's significantly more expensive than every other PDA/Smartphone offered by Cingular, some of which are very comparable to the iPhone. "but it's also not expensive when compared to similar phones, which... aren't yet available" Need you be reminded that the iPhone itself is not coming out for almost 6 months? And how are the phones out today not similar? The Cingular 8525 looks comparable to me.
Myth Four: The iPhone software is a closed model, therefore the sky is falling.
How can you say that third-party software would make the handset insecure and unstable? Do you believe this about computers in general? Third party development can (and frequently does) turn the ideas of the general public into brilliant applications that would likely not have existed otherwise. They drive the entire computer industry, and how can you so quickly dismiss the handset market as being different where third-party development would only mean negative things?
I'm out of time but these "myths" just speak of desperate fanboism. Please realize that criticism is a healthy thing and that if this handset isn't perfect Apple has the time, money, and resources to make something that is better. After all, they're only just entering this market and will have lessons to learn just like everyone else.
"... better understand the threat that it poses..."
What threat? Is open source so fragile that the mere possibility that someone will do a closed application or platform that much of a "threat"?
It's odd to me that the FOSS community gives so much lip service to concepts like freedom and choice... as long as that choice is the one THEY wanted. From my perspective, Apple is in a position to judge what they think is best for their products and their customers. If they're wrong, the market will tell them so, and they'll adjust, or not. If they're right, well, then that success simply shows that more than one model can be successful in the marketplace.
Or to put it another way, is my being a success preventing you from also being a success? Does a closed-source phone stop Linux from being successful elsewhere?
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
It shows just how much an impact the announcement of this device has made, and how it will probably revolutionize the market the way the iPod revolutionized its market. Guess what, when there's an iPhone story, you don't have to click "Read More," read the story, click "Reply," and type a post. Yep, you can actually skip all that and just scroll to the next story on the front page. It's amazing; try it.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Sometimes I can't tell the difference between slashdot and fox news. I'm sure everyone is tired of this conversation. Until I see a formal tech sheet and notes, I'm finished with reading about the iphone. I'm interested in facts and genuine speculation, not sensationalism.
my mom posts on slashdot.
is the press it is getting. At best, its just a new phone with a couple of nice features. On a more realistic note, its iJust a iFreaking iPhone that is shackled with Apples iDRM and the Cingular network.
This is ignorant to give a phone this much press/talk time.
Yeah, sure, mod me down for this, but its true.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Writing "An unlocked phone can make GSM calls and send basic SMS. No MMS, no Internet," shows disgusting lack of GSM knowledge that is really shocked. Mr Eran, probably never went out of US (or other country of crippled GSM services) - all above things are standarized and all phone are able to switch providers without any problems. definitely this is 3 myth is plain stupid (needs for an exclusive agreement), and the only reason for doing so, was this stupid visual voice mail (geee, who on earth uses voicemail today???). Not willing to read rest of article after such errors at start...
If there is any chance that the iPhone will suffer from virus attacks like the common crap phone... ...3rd party software will be responsible for it.
I bookmarked every comment from Java developers who were negative about Jobs comment that 3rd party software isn't allowed.
As soon as my future iPhone stops being a phone I'll be back... I know who you suckers are!!!
It had to be said.
Am I the only one who thinks the iPhone is ugly? I think it's the bright colors on black that just doesn't work for me. I was really expecting something much cooler looking when I heard people were getting excited about this.
The claim that "An unlocked phone can make GSM calls and send basic SMS. No MMS, no Internet, no iTS." is just wrong. Woefully wrong. See, for exampke, the Nokia gateway for pushing these settings to a phone (for example one which is new and unlocked.
Well, the iphone could have been "a simple hardware device to use for computing-communication" and Apple could have been on the leading edge of that. Instead, they chose to make the device an eye-candy dripping but half-assed nonetheless gadget. Like those $19 "PDAs" in blister packs in Kmart. Sure, they have a calendar, a note pad, and phone directory, but what makes them so worthless is the fact that they can't be extended in a simple and natural manner through additional software installs.
The reason there is so much flame against the iphone right now is because lots people, myself included, saw the presentation and though "wow -- that's gonna be awesome -- finally a real computing device that fits in your pocket and has a great UI". Then we heard it was going to be nothing but pretty gadget and got royally ticked off.
And lest you think I have a knee jerk hatred of apple -- you're wrong. I'm typing this in ubuntu running in parallels on a macbook. Apple makes nice hardware, but they can't please everyone. The 3d party app market is there exactly to serve people who might have unique desires or requirements and Apple doesn't think of everything (e.g., why can't I use finder to ssh into another account like konqueror or nautilus will do? -- thank goodness there's a 3d party solution for this -- it makes the hardware all that much more valuable to me).
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
He correctly stated that we won't be seeing EVDO because that is the realm of CDMA handsets, not GSM ones. But then he goes on to talk about HSUPA as being 3G.
In GSM phones, General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) is considered 2.5G
Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution (EDGE) is simply an expansion on GPRS and is sometimes referred to as 2.75G, but is really still 2.5G
Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) is referred to as 3G. It builds on W-CDMA (Wideband Code Division Multiple Access), so that is sometimes refferred to as 3G too (Not to be confused with regular CDMA network phones).
High Speed Download Packet Access (HSDPA) and High Speed Upload Packet Access (HSUPA) are reffered to as 3.5G, and most carriers that have gone with it have implemented HSDPA without implementing HSUPA. So the constant talk of HSUPA for the iPhone is misinformed nonsense.
The author of this article is really confused about mobile tech. He was probably a Mac guy who didn't know anything about mobile stuff until the iPhone announcement. 1) It's HSDPA. Not HSUPA. I repeat, it's HSDPA. That's the technology that Cingular and all other mobile carriers are using right now. HSUPA is a future technology that is currently in trials. No one ever expected the iPhone to have HSUPA. 2) "EDGE is also widely deployed in the US. Newer generation technologies, including HSUPA and EVDO, are not." HSDPA phones are also EDGE capable. So the whole argument about network size is null and void. Additionally, Sprint and Verizon Wireless both operate nationwide EV-DO networks. Just like with HSDPA, when you use a EV-DO phone in an area that there is no EV-DO coverage it automatically switches to 1xRTT (about the same speed as EDGE). 3) A CDMA iPhone with EV-DO is very likely. Motorola launched the RAZR in GSM first and then followed up in about a year with a CDMA version. To be truly successful in the US market you really need a CDMA play (over half of our market is CDMA). If Cingular really does have an exclusive for two years, look for a CDMA model to launch then. 4) The author seems confused by all the acronyms which is more evidence that he has little knowledge of mobile. He essentially claims that because there are so many competing 3G standards, Apple did the smart thing to just go with EDGE to make it easy for consumers.
The iPhone's interface is amazing and I would like nothing better than to ditch the embarrassment-of-an-OS that is Windows mobile (mediocre interface, intermittent syncing problems, crippled web browser, nightmarish memory management, unreliable alarms!, and all-around temperamental and sluggish behavior).
But the iPhone's amazing hardware and multitouch interface do me no good if it doesn't have a browser with proper AJAX support (Safari doesn't), spreadsheet, SSH, RDC/VNC clients, and a way to store encrypted passwords.
This may be due to 3GPP requiring phone manufacturers to insure that the phone can't load non-approved firmware (FTA). They don't want someone to load firmware that causes problems on the wireless network.
Of course, this is entirely different from loading 3rd party applications on a phone.
I must admit I liked the iPhone at first. I thought it had real potential, but here's why I for one won't be buying one;
1) 3G is a BIG DEAL. Anyone who's used it can tell you that. Especially for a device like this that's so data-centric I can't believe they are using EDGE. EDGE is a piss-poor replacement for 3G which only got implemented in this country because it was cheaper than a real rollout of 3G. Wake me when iPhone supports it... or when it actually manages to download an entire web page, whichever comes first.
2) Closed platform. Hello? What? Come on, even Microsoft's Windows Mobile is an open platform in the sense that third-party apps can be installed. Hell, my MPX-220 has about a dozen third-party apps installed, at least 4 or 5 of which I use *every single day*. My phone also contains a couple of hacked together apps of my own that use the (admittedly piss-poor) data connection to grab Internet data while I'm on the road that's useful to me. Hell, I even have an IM client that's open enough to have multiple providers. Also, I develop on mobile platforms for the disabled. Currently the darling of the disabled (especially deaf) is the Blackberry but they're all coming up for replacment soon because they're expensive to maintain the Exchange servers. They're looking for alternatives... without the ability to run third-party apps I'm afraid that the iPhone is a toy for the rich geek. I guess I'll be selling them on the OpenMoko.
3) Dumb Phone at a Smartphone Price. What does the iPhone do that my wife's Motorola SLVR doesn't? Do I hear crickets? OK, so it can store more than 100 iTunes songs. BFD. My wife doesn't NEED more than 100 songs... she hooks it up to charge it on the USB every night, what's stopping her switching out her active playlist dependent on her mood? She does that today... she doesn't need 500 songs on her phone... just enough to get through a day. Calendaring? Nope... SLVR does that. Photos? Oooh, try again. Contacts? Hell, all of the functionality I saw is available today in phones 1/6 of the price. OK... the Google Maps stuff is kinda cool, but if you have an open platform (like the OpenMoko.... look it up if you don't believe me) and the open API that Google Maps provides, how long until everyone else replicates the functionality?
The only thing the iPhone has going for it is eye candy... and that will get old really quick. Come on, hands up... how many people reading this comment who run Windows XP actually still have all the eye candy turned on? Same for Gnome... hell, same for OSX. Eye candy is cool for all of a day, then it starts to get wearing. The transitions get turned off and the eye candy goes away except for those people who just HAVE to show off their expensive device.
I've mentioned it twice; the OpenMoko platform is going to give this phone a run for its money. It's going to be available before the iPhone and will be an extensible and open platform. I for one will be buying one of the first-gen devices because I want to develop for it. It doesn't have the camera, or the tilt sensors... neither of which are things I need anyway. It'll be the first of many devices based on the platform... and since it's open anything I develop should work on the next gen devices... or at most require a recompile. Oh, and the screen resolution is higher.
I thought at first I'd buy an iPhone, but the more I've heard about the limitations of the device the sadder I've become. And as regards TFA; I read them. I usually like Daniel Ehran's rants, even if I don't agree with them... but his site is one I check out. But his defense of the iPhone is fanboyism at its worst. He thinks just because it comes from Apple it can do no wrong. Sorry, I am a Mac user and I like Apple, but even I admit they make mistakes. The iPhone isn't on my list of "has to have" geek toys, and won't be. I'll probably replace my phone with the first OpenMoko device out there, I'll develop my apps and I'll sell my customers on the benefits of an open, extensible, flexible platform based
Please explain. How is the iPhone any more "integrated" than other devices in its price range?
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Integration with what? The phone is running OS X and doesn't even come with an ssh client, or VNC for the GUI folks. Any $100 phone can have an ssh client today, and they aren't running anything as exclusive as OS X.
Back to the drawing board Apple.
Don't underestimate the lifestyle statement that a phone can make, if you're sad enough to express yourself with a consumer purchase that is.
Steve Jobs certainly won't, and he'll be laughing all the way to the bank as the more gullible amongst us grab yet another overpriced and thoroughly useless toy.
If a Gnome user wants to install something from KDE, say AmaroK, they end up having to install a bunch of libraries from KDE.
I'm betting you didn't pick amaroK by accident -- it's the sole reason any KDE libraries exist on my otherwise stock Ubuntu system, and I know several other Ubuntu users in the same situation. If a GNOME-ified version of amaroK existed, I'd install it in a heartbeat and kiss KDE goodbye.
-- Old Man Kensey
A phone that you cannot put your own software onto is not a smartphone. This is just an excessively fancy cell phone. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Someone will reply that it's got all this software already on it, or that it runs OSX. So? It simply doesn't meet the requirements of a smartphone.. plenty of non-smartphones have come with prepackaged software on them.
Most of the criticisms of the iPhone sound petty and idiosyncratic to me. No user-replacable battery! I don't know the last time I removed the battery to my cellphone. Locked to Cingular! Well, I already use Cingular, so a 2-year contract is not an obstacle at all to me, and I realize that every cell phone company sucks in one way or another so it makes no difference to me to whom I send my check every month. These are all highly specific needs that only really matter to a few people that value a certain aspect of their phone that to other people is completely insignificant.
But the third-party development issue transcends the idiosyncratic. Development for the iPhone will create an ecosystem of possible uses and fill a variety of mobile phone needs. Apple can choose to have a robust ecosystem that provides the most diverse user experience possible, or an anemic ecosystem. Opening development, in the end, is the easiest way for Apple to allow the iPhone to meet the most needs for the most people. As a result... they would sell more phones. Without a permissive development ecosystem, the iPhone is not so much a smartphone as a cleverphone.
The article makes a mistake comparing open iPhone development to the chaos of Linux development. Linux development is chaotic because fundamental Linux structures and APIs themselves exist in an open development ecosystem. This would plainly not be the case for the iPhone, which has one maufacturer and one set of APIs. The author suggests the iPhone would suffer from unclear commercial incentives and support issues? It's just an inapt analogy, when the analogy to smartphone (Palm, Symbian) market is obviously better: developers make money and user support just isn't a big deal. This is not good argument against wide open development.
As others have pointed out, though, it remains to be seen what development ecosystem Apple will permit.
The more it costs to develop for the iPhone, the more expensive that $500/$600 price tag is going to become, at least for people replacing a smartphone.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
It may be the start, but why can't it offer what you state...now?
If it's supposed to be "revolutionary", then why does everyone state "by gen 2"? Not everyone wants to wait for revolutionary, or else everyone just gets tired. So it comes out with 3G and iChat in gen 2 next year. Who's gonna buy it? Everyone that has the iPhone is already in a contract, and everyone else is going to be wary since Apple's motto is "hold features and sprinkle them year after year".
No one's going to buy it. If they're shooting for a more Asian and Euro market of swapping phones every few years, then they need to sell it out of contract (which won't happen since the deal with AT&T is exclusive and includes selling it with contract) or wait more than a year to redesign it with just a new feature or 2.
In Soviet Russia, dots slash you!
A) I have a Cingular 8125 which is absolutely worthless with my iMac. Why can't Mac users have a smartphone, that works with Windows no less? B) It is steep, but people have paid more for less. There are enough Mac users, IMHO, who need/want a smartphone. Not to mention the fanbois. C) Exactly! D) Many phones are tied to a single carrier because different carriers use different technologies (Cingular uses GSM and SIM cards, for example) and it is easier to develop for one carrier, at least initially. That is what happened with the RAZR.
This sig only exists because you are observing it.
Here at Apple we are working hard at taking over the world by destroying your need for anything other than an Apple Product, and thanks too the RDF, invented and trademarked by Steve Jobs and injected daily by Mac Fanboys, we will rule the world in 6 short months. Now, bend over and drink the Kool Aid... rectally. Not because you have to but because Steve Jobs thinks it is funny.
Is it me or are the macfanboys rampantly modding down perfectly valid and appropriate comments as 'Offtopic' or 'Troll' just because they don't fit the narrow minded fanaticism.
Well, you can mod me down, but you can NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM!
(I'll just do some Karma Whoring tomorrow to make up for my sins)
www.tribalnetworks.org - helping tribal people around the world to own their own means of high-tech communications
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Further meaningless iPhone articles do not belong on Slashdot, and neither does Al Gore.
I'm surprised how little (if anything) I've heard about the iPhone being the catalyst for mobile viruses. You know the iPhone will get cheaper and with Cingular/AT&T subsidies, it may gain a very large "surface area" and that is what is attractive to virus writers: that and the notoriety of being the first (or one of) to unleash a mobile virus into the wild. Clamping down the OS will help protect (at least for a short while) the iPhone from the nefarious fate that will eventually be bestowed upon it.
Where did you get your information on the monthly service fee for the cell phone side of the iPhone?
Not only wrong, but years and years wrong. I've used unlocked GSM phones to access the internet from both Cingular and T-Mobile's American networks since at least 2004. I don't know what kind of crack they're smoking at Motorola, but all three of the Ericsson and SonyEricsson phones I've owned in the last three years have been unlocked and able to do this -- and at 3G speeds when I'm in a 3G coverage area (real 3G in Europe, not the 2.5G slow "EDGE" [really EGPRS] stuff that Cingular brands as 3G for the Americans who don't know any better).
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
iPhone articles do belong on Slashdot. They are an important new technology, one which will eventually be pretty much in everyone's (well, everyone but the would-be Luddites who stick with last year's stuff because they hate Apple) pocket in a year or two as soon as their existing cellular operator contracts expire. No tech gadget since the iPod deserves as much coverage as the iPhone. Give this phone a year or two, and people will be doing like they did with MP3 players -- calling any MP3 player an iPod because iPods are so universal.
As Linux is technically 'just a kernel', then does this mean that OSX is technically also 'just a kernel' meaning that Apple can compile it for a washing machine CPU and claim it's 'running OSX'?
For example, there are several phones and PDAs that 'run Linux', however everyone will agree it's not the same as a desktop OS as they essentially are talking about the kernel.
1. Old lady felt while walking was saved by her new iPhone, from which she called for help. 2. World hunger is now over. Thanks for the iPhone, people can easily be more conscious about the real problem of the world. 3. Whatever.
Yeah, that's what I was about to post. My phone is self-unlocked, and MMS and internet access both still work fine from it.
The top ten myths article is full of holes. The author is very non-objective on a lot of these topics. I think there are good arguments as to why the device should have been 3G and not 2G (GSM), I think there is a serious contracdiction when you showcase Mac OS X as a hot feature and then you tell people (quoting Steve Jobs) "...We define everything that is on the phone. You don't want your phone to be like a PC.", that's fine there's an argument to be made there, but then why advertise your flagship desktop OS as a key feature just to oooh and ahhh a crowd. That's a clue into the marketing hype going on here.
As a software developer I completely disagree with the closed platform/distrbute only through Apple approach. Historiclly Apple should know the best innovation doesn't come from a corporate R&D lab (not even Apple's) it comes from the garage. To drop a few keywords for you: Apple, Microsoft, Google, EBay... all had humble beginings.
Also there's growing market for mobile application development for enterprise customers, by shunning J2ME and not providing any sort of counterpart, Apple is forcing the iPhone into a very niche consumer market. The reality is on a lot of levels it can't compete with high end SmartPhones and the low-end SmartPhones are priced at about 1/3 of the entry level iPhone.
The iPhone will please people looking to update their iPod and to get a new phone at the same time. It will turn off people who are loyal to a non-Cingular cell provider (i.e. happy with their current coverage and plan) it will also turn off hobbist developers look for a gadget they can develop for, those are pretty much unchallenged assertions.
There's just a lot of subjectivity in these articles, but the first author does hit the nail on the head when he list the features that make the iPhone signifigant, when he cracks these "myths".
The multitouch screen isn't innovative because it's a touch screen; it's new because it offers a finger gesture system that just makes sense and is intuitive.
Visual voicemail is obvious in retrospect, but nobody in the last half decade of phone development at Palm or Microsoft thought to fix the problem.
Ever use an existing phone's web browser? Apple has demonstrated the difference between a placeholder product and a well executed one that actually works.
Really when you break it down, these three features are all that make the iPhone stand out and if they really appeal to you and you happen to need a phone, and you can afford $500 for that phone and if the WiFi will make up for the lack of 3G speed for you... and you are happy to sign up with Cingular then the iPhone will be for you.
Here's what will likely happen (many anaylist are already predicting this and they are right, this isn't a hard one). When the iPhone launches it will be hot, it's a status symbol kind of item. For a lot of people, it's large form form factor and other "features" just won't be that attractive. It will either gain moderate success or it will be an outright failure, It won't rise to the top of the cell hardward market in the way that the iPod has sustained with portal music players. Given all the economic principles at play here, it's not plausable and that's not subjective.
Much agreed. The iPhone is going to change cellular telephony on a fundamental scale, just like CDMA/TDMA/PCS in the late 1990s changed it from analog calling to high quality digital calls.
There is absolutely nothing that even comes close to this phone on the market. This is pretty much exactly like how iPods pushed everyone else out. In a couple years, there will be iPhones, and the iPhone wannabees forever trying to play catch up.
I think they are intentional omissions at this point. Better to feature freeze the Gen 1 iPhone until the code base and schematics mature a little than try to give you everything with their first venture into the market.
I think the real innovation they're providing is coming from tighter integration with their partners in the industry, Cingular, Yahoo, and Google, not from the tech specs of the phone itself. I expect the Gen 2 iPhone will have more features in line with a state of the art device.
I think Apple is showing a lot of wisdom by keeping this initial device simpler, even if it is a little underpowered for this crowd since it will prevent a lot of bad press about instability. That said, I'm waiting for the Gen 2 iPhone before I even consider buying one.
I couldn't care less about 3rd party development. What I care about is whether I can develop for it.
I use a PDA as a prosthetic memory. As such, I need to be able to write my own programs for it to fill my own needs. I don't care whether I can distribute them or not.
I mean, the article says that there aren't any phones on the market that are comparable, so what would I get from an iPhone that I wouldn't get from one of these plus an addon SD card to bring its memory up to the same spec?
And why does the article author seem to think that not having a replaceable battery is an advantage? (And his point about iPod batteries being replaceable... yeah right... "Sonnet [the people who make the kits] recommends iPod Mini and fourth-generation iPod users seek professional installation expertise rather than upgrade themselves." So how is paying somebody for the privelege of changing your batteries in any way the same thing as being able to unscrew a cover, disconnect a lead, stick a new set in and reconnect the cover, as you can with most other portable rechargeable devices these days?)
The iPhone per-say isn't all that exciting. What is exciting is I see Apple going in the direction of producing a handheld computer in the near future that runs the MacOSX. That is what I'm waiting for. If it has a phone in it, hopefully with VOIP and Cell, fine, but that isn't what I'm looking for. I want an iPal, one hand held gizmo that does my music, video, applications (all I have on my desktop/powerbook), gps, camera, calendar, contacts, backup auto sync, etc. I don't want to be carrying more objects around. Oh, and it needs to be real world rugged.
:)
Hmm... My Captcha below is visors - my palm is a Handspring Visor Deluxe. Coincidences like that make for conspiracies...
I'm amazed at all the people saying it's nothing new and nothing special. Have you actually looked at the specs and watched the keynote? Or maybe you formed the opinion based on it being an Apple? I've had zero interest in smart phones but I want an iPhone. I haven't even bought an iPod but I want an iPhone. Name one other smart phone that plays video? How about one that allows you to display a full webpage? Personally I can't stand the micro keyboards so I don't get the whole Blackberry craze. How about a smart phone running a desktop OS? I think the first generation phones are just scratching the surface of what the iPhones will be doing in a year or two. I thought the iPods were overpriced for what they are but I don't see that with the iPhone. People are spoiled. Most companies give away phones or sell them at a loss. It's come to be expected so in some ways it's holding back innovation in the market because there's not much financial incentive. You only make money off the service not the phones themselves so they are seen as a promotional item not the end product.
..."Partyware" in the subject. That sounded kind of exciting. The iPhone, OTOH, does not.
Apple will make the iPhone too closed and they are not thinking about the global phone market. A real Skype client for Symbian will be available any day now, which will make Nokia WiFi enabled phones like the N80 and N95 really attractive. Skype is available for OS X, but I'm sure Cingular will want to block Skype calls over WiFi. Apple has no plans VoIP and they don't even support stereo Bluetooth (A2DP). With the Nokia N95 feature set and ability to unlock, Apple has some catching up to do. Nokia N95 has EDGE, WCDMA, WiFi, Stereo Bluetooth (A2DP), 5MP camera with flash, 2GB SD cards, audio player, FM radio, web browser, built-in GPS with maps, etc, etc and a real key pad. The touch screen will not provide feedback, i.e. a car wreck waiting to happen. Sorry, koolaid kiddies, Apple did not reinvent the phone, they reinvented the iPod.
From the article:
The only legal way around this built-in limitation is to strip out the copy protection by burning a CD with the tracks, then uploading the music back to the computer. If you're willing to go to that trouble, you can play the music where and how you choose -- the equivalent to rights that would have been granted automatically at the cash register if you had bought the same music on a CD in the first place.
Actually, you can convert aac (Apple's DRM itune tracks) to MP3 within iTunes. I found this out when I wanted to burn mp3 cds for my car's cd player.
I was browsing web pages with Flash support on my Nokia 7650 Symbian (S60) phone and using it as remote control for my TV, set my profile based on cell information (Psiloc stuff) back in 2002 or something too.
USA was that backwards to get impressed with this thing or is it Apple fanatics all over?
They are even defending 3rd party software lock which even Nokia, the emperor on (real) Smart phones never dared to do.
The current definitive answer on JavaScript, Java, and Flash support: JavaScript yes, Java no, Flash maybe.
From David Pogue's Ultimate iPhone FAQs List, Part 2:
Markoff: "What about all those plugins that live within Safari now, like Flash or like Java or like JavaScript?"
Jobs: "Well, JavaScript's built into the Phone. Sure."
Markoff: "And what are you thinking about Flash and Java?"
Jobs: "Java's not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It's this big heavyweight ball and chain."
Markoff: "Flash?"
Jobs: "Well, you might see that."
Markoff: "What about YouTube-"
Jobs: "Yeah, YouTube--of course. But you don't need to have Flash to show YouTube. All you need to do is deal with YouTube. And plus, we could get 'em to up their video resolution at the same time, by using h.264 instead of the old codec."
Roughly Drafted? Weren't they the guys who put their shitty FUD fanboy articles up on digg and then frontpaged them by getting them and their friends to digg the stories with multiple accounts? Oh, yeah, same guys..
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
Conan O'Brien did a great spoof of how iPhone can do everything, from shaving your beard to working as a prophylactic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xXNoB3t8vM
The problem of course is that a few Apple die hards probably won't be able to tell its a spoof.
Not mentioned yet is Bob Cringely's theory that the reason Apple didn't put in 3G is because Cingular and Apple are both competing in the Video download market. And Apple won't let 3G on to the phone until Apple wins total control.
0 70111_001476.html
This sounds far more plausible than the original story saying that 3G is "Not Ready Yet" and so we use Edge. Apple loves setting standards and being early to market. Being late on 3G must have a business reason, not a techincal one. Conflict with Cingular on video makes a lot of sense. Apple will crush Cingular on this.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20
The iPhone is a GSM product. Rogers is the only GSM carrier up here, and as some of you may know, Rogers is one of the worst carriers around, especially when it comes to price plans (they give you virtually nothing). Not only that, but in certain areas (Newfoundland), GSM has practically zero coverage (I believe there are precisely two GSM towers on the island, which is about 1~3 times the size of Florida, depending on how you look at it). Most of Atlantic Canada suffers from similar issues, but (bizarrely) to lesser extents, unless Rogers finally decided to add in some more towers. That makes GSM useless, and, by association, the iPhone, as well. I'll keep my less-than-half-as-expensive LG 8100 EVDO MP3 phone, thanks. Not only is it NOT tethered to iTunes, but it's survived being run over by a car with minimal damage to the internal LCD and small scuffs on the casing - I'd like to see an Apple product do that.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
...but now I have to say it: how many iPhone stories a day are we gonna get on the Slashdot front page, and for how long? This is a hell of a lot of coverage for a mere _phone_ that a) offers no new features not already available on other smartphones, b) is priced mostly out of the market, c) isn't on the market yet, and d) is tied to one carrier. I've been wondering: which smart phone does have a call hold and 3-party-conference feature?Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Except it's not as good.
Anyone who's read much of what I've written knows I'm no fan of Microsoft. But I'm not as doctrinaire as I sometimes sound, and so I spent two years with a Pocket PC because I felt I owed Microsoft a fair shake at testing it. There are indeed some areas where it's very good, but using it was a mistake and going back to Palm was a tremendous relief.
Many of the features of the Pocket PC Phone Edition that I used have been faithfully copied by the iPhone.
Many more haven't.
Many of features that caused me problems on the Pocket PC are the ones copied in the iPhone, the top two were the touch-screen for dialling numbers that kept me from dialling by touch, the way playing music and reading eBooks and basically using it as anything but a phone dragged down the battery and kept me from being able to use it as a phone.
The good features of the Pocket PC, like good text input (better than what Palm's currently using) and being able to run third party and my own software on it, these have been set aside.
And it costs two hundred dollars more.
Nokia E60/E61.
There, that was easy. I have the E60 and it is amazing.
By the way, Jobs lied during the keynote when he says it is the first phone with a fully usable web browser, both the phones above use the Nokia browser that is based on the same WebKit as Safari on the iPhone.
smeat!
"Let's not bicker about who killed who." Monty Python
you truly are a fucking moron.
What are the 3rd party apps you installed on your Treo?
WindowSaver2007+++++ v.5.6.99.0.PR5? Fantasy Quest 8000?
Or actual applications that you need to get your work done?
Guess you won't miss VNC on your Treo, huh? Or will you gladly fork over $50 a pop for anything that remotely resembles "useful" just so long as it's blessed by Steve-o and friends?
Here's a hint: Your Treo is unstable (and my Cingular 8285 is unstable) not because of the software we install, necessarily, but because (pay close attention, this is important) THE OPERATING SYSTEMS SUCK AND ARE KLUDGY. We can expect better from Apple.
Apparently, however, we cannot expect them to treat us like adults.
+++ATH0
Do Nokia, Sony Ericsson and the rest really sell at a loss? That must make it pretty tough to do business.
Um, my Treo 650 doesn't just play video, it records video, with full audio, via the built-in cam. And I have gigabytes of MP3s on it thanks to the built-in SD slot. And I shop eBay, use Gmail, and read CNN with it. And its several years old. As to where I formed my opinion about the iPhone... I formed it from Apple's marketing materials and press releases. If you have a better source at the moment I'm all ears.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
...you should be running your own companies. You are all smarter than everyone else. All of you here will be quite vindicated when the iPhone fails. Man, I wish Apple had consulted you before they did this, you all could have saved them a lot of trouble. By the way, does anyone have the comments section from Slashdot for the introduction of the iPod? I'm sure the same "much smarter than" people were out. In the end, having an elegant device that works well and easily wins. Luckily, we all will be able to wait and see how it works out.
You're new here, aren't you?
Now please stop that. I am a Mac user for 8 years and own an XDA Neo (HTC Prophet) for almost a year. After one week of using it I wished Apple to bring out something similar. I need a phone with calender and address book synching, maybe a simple camera, bluetooth and wlan. And I don't want to jump through hoops or read a manual to pair a headset or connect to a wlan. Windows Mobile is even a worse user experience then Windows :)
If there was a way to put Linux on it and still be able to use o2s phone network, I'd do it in an instance. If you think the XDAs can compare to the iPhone you are clearly not in the target group.
Freedom is not always a good thing. Would you like freedom of choice as to which side of the road you drive on?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
How do you know it doesn't come with an ssh client? Are you psychic? Are you an Apple employee? Or are you just blowing beige turds out your PC user ass?
And now, a PSA from David Lynch.
FTFA:
Shortly before the iPhone's release, Dean Hall, a seven year software engineer for Motorola, explained in an email the limited usability of an unlocked phone:
"When a phone is unlocked it loses its privileges on a provider's data network. An unlocked phone can make GSM calls and send basic SMS. No MMS, no Internet, no iTS. Apple would either have to reverse engineer a method to gain access to the data network (unlikely as most data networks require SSL-level security to access) or it would have to offer something different."
Where the hell did the authur of the article find this source?? I have an unlocked phone (SonyEricsson W800i) that I bought from one provider there in the Netherlands (Orange) and use with another provider (KPN). I have had ZERO lose of "privileges". I still have full "baby" internet on it, MMS, and I still check my IMAP e-mail on it and everything thing else it could do on Orange just as well on KPN. I ahve even used a pay as you go SIM card for testing, and everything still worked!. In fact, once of the stupid "Orange World" download ringtones for a Euro each app included on it even works!
And it runs Opera Mini just fine as well, thank-you.
Every provider here in the Netherlands has a support page that tells you how to set your GPRS and other data settings incase you didn't get your phone from them. What kind of retarded world are the providers they mention in TFA from?!
This is an old page, but its still relevant:
http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/
Across the street from the Apple store in Palo Alto, we have the Helio store. Helio "don't call it a phone" is another integrated communicator device, and may be cooler than the iPhone. Not only does it have music and video, but it has direct Myspace integration. There's "Buddy Beacon"; if you're not in "cloaking mode", your position shows on your friends' maps. These are integrated, of course. Social networking is now location-aware.
The iPhone is mostly about content delivery, "Web 1.0" stuff. Helio is more about social networking, "Web 2.0" stuff.
Get an iPhone, get entertained. Get a Helio, get laid.
WiFi eats batteries like they were candy. It is a very chatty protocol and the radio is going essentially all the time. That works well for devices that have large batters or are plugged in, but not so good when your battery is tiny. However the mobile protocols are better designed for low power devices. They only transmit when they have something to say and fall silent otherwise. Saves a whole lot of batter life, especially for something like web browsing where it's a "get a page, and then do nothing for a couple minutes" kind of thing.
I have a phone with EVDO (CDMA high speed) and WiFi on it and I always make use of EVDO for just that reason. WiFi is faster, and well available at work, but it just eats the batteries too much. EVDO doesn't hit them too hard and I can surf for an hour and still have plenty of battery to take a long phone call later.
You're kidding, right?
Or is Apple paying you?
Cute cheerleader outfit, btw.
Note that 3GPP rel. 7 standard will define "EDGE Evolution" which makes the EDGE speed 2-3 times faster. That's a good, cheap, and POWER SAVING alternative for a future iPhone model. Apple will of course still consider further upgraded models with GSM/UMTS path (W-CDMA and HSDPA/HSUPA) technologies, but they consume more battery and the results may vary.
I typically get about the same speed with EDGE and 3G, country wide here in Finland. The real speed depends on the network congestion. Anyway the capped limit in current UMTS phones (my Nokia N70) and networks (all the non-HSDPA UMTS networks I know, which is 90% of the UMTS world) is 384 kbit/s, so it is not much better than the max ~256 kbits/s of standard EDGE.
And the real life results with the HSDPA supporting new handsets and networks will vary. With bad coverage or congestion you will not benefit much of it. So even in the near future (~5 years), the difference between EDGE and UMTS versions will not be so big.
And before EDGE gets really old and undesirable, many things may happen and change the picture: Wimax, xMax, whatever radio; SIP, Skype, XMPP, whatever VoIP. VoIP changes the picture radically: you don't have to necessarily implement legacy technology (GSM/UMTS, CDMA/EVDO) anymore, because now any acccess point with any (radio) technology works with your VoIP.
Anssi Porttikivi / app@iki.fi
I have both KDE and gnome running here (KDE primary) and run KDE and gnome apps as I please. IMHO, KDE and gnome should both be installed by default on any desktop-oriented distro.
Tech Public Policy stuff
I've got all of the above plus a fifth API... Windoze via VMware Server running on this desktop... and It Just Works. From a user viewpoint, it really doesn't matter as long as they all play nicely together.
Tech Public Policy stuff
it. The iPhone looked interesting right up until the bad news showed up... here.
At this point, if I want an expensive mobile, I'll go with a high-end Palm PDA.
Tech Public Policy stuff
that Apple gets slammed far more than they deserve, the article that got posted here is purely and simply Mac fanboy crapola from someone so detached from reality that he posted a list of reasons to avoid iPhone and tried to spin them all into positives.
Can Apple Marketing keep the iPhone from going the way of the MS Zune?
Tech Public Policy stuff
Here's a list of the must have smartphone apps that at this point the iPhone is missing.
Q: Name one other smart phone that plays video?
A: Tons do -- Blackberry for example. A better question: Can you exactly name a smart phone that still can't play video?
Q: How about one that allows you to display a full webpage?
A: Tons do.
Q: Personally I can't stand the micro keyboards so I don't get the whole Blackberry craze.
A: To send emails on a device a micro keyboard is the best way to go. Blackberry users will be able to send emails anywhere from 2 to 10x faster than a keyboardless device.
Q: How about a smart phone running a desktop OS?
A: It's not a full desktop OS. It's a stripped down OS like all smart phones.
The network I'm on allows me access to voice, text, MMS, and 3G data services. The handset that was provided with my contract (Nokia N80) fully supports all of these features. Now, I've also got a Nokia N70 which was previously locked to another mobile network, and it's now unlocked to work with any network. If I put my current SIM card in and turn it on, perhaps I should be shocked to find that I can access the same services before (after putting in the right settings).
I've used a variety of mobile phones, both SIM-locked and "vanilla" unlocked handsets, on most of the mobile networks for the last ten years and I've never had any problems such as those mentioned by Mr Hall.
Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
And do you buy your phones from any of those compaines? Or do you buy them from a sevice vendor who locks you into a multi-year contract worth many times the value of the phone and subsidizes the initial purchase of that phone.
Lets see... my several year old treo 650 does that. I can put the caller I am talking to on hold, call someone else and join them together or conference in someone via call waiting. Not that fancy.
every day apple grabs the headlines with its iphone , dont give them the attention. let them fail at it.. i recommend everyone boycotts iphone threads
After wasting time reading TFM.
May I quote "Both Apple and Microsoft are selling closed and proprietary systems in their consumer electronics products. However, Apple typically sells unlocked hardware but manages its hardware and software as an "integrated experience." Microsoft seeks to lock down its hardware, but leaves third party applications largely unmanaged"
This bombshell dropped by the author really floored me. (and this was about Apple, OS X and the new phone)
How about his excuse as to why Apple doesn't support EVDO? He asks "which one" and also wonders why Apple would compete with itself. Say WHAT?!?
More quality opinions coming, I am sure. (that was sarcastic).
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Claus
If you're not already a Mac user, I don't see too much reason to get crazy excited. However, as a Mac user, it would be nice to get a phone or PDA that for once truly seamlessly syncs with the OS X desktop applications. I hate having to manually code the colors on my calendars on my Treo. I hate having to edit contact records on my Treo and Mac to get them right because the fields don't match up 100%. I also hate having to resolve "calendar conflicts" that exist for no logical reson. Also, it's the potential uses that have me interested more than the standard features. Currently, I don't pay for .mac, but I would if doing so would give me live calendar and contacts syncing on all devices including the iPhone. Also, the Cocoa framework on a phone opens up the possibility for useful handheld extensions of desktop applications (the upcoming OmniFocus comes to mind). Lastly, it's a music player on a phone or PDA that doesn't suck, and will sync effortlessly with my current system.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The guy in the article says Edge is 256k, not even the Edge proponents believe that. He also says EVDO is not widely deployed in the USA, ummm, has he looked at a map? Not only do you get EVDO all over but you get 1X which is the same speed as EDGE just about anywhere you have cell phone coverage from Sprint, Verizon or Alltel.
Without EVDO this phone is seriously lacking. Edge sux. I have both a GSM/EDGE blackberry and EVDO phones. Hands down EVDO rocks.
No kidding. I stopped reading at this gem from "Myth" 3:
"When a phone is unlocked it loses its privileges on a provider's data network. An unlocked phone can make GSM calls and send basic SMS. No MMS, no Internet, no iTS. Apple would either have to reverse engineer a method to gain access to the data network (unlikely as most data networks require SSL-level security to access) or it would have to offer something different."
This is patent, unadulterated BOLLOCKS. In Finland, handsets are almost always sold unlocked and separate from a contract, & there never seems to be a problem with MMS and internet access from the networks there...
I guess I don't get it. the government just ruled(late last year, went into effect december 1) that A-you can unlock your phone and the carriers can't stop you and B - phones are now portable across networks by being unlocked, and they can't stop you, this is now an exception to copyright rules. They don't have to do it for you, but nothing illegal about people doing it, near as i can read the thing. Now apple and cinglar might want you to forget that little bit, but the law is the law usually anyway.
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
scroll down to section 5 in particular
seems to me this was covered on slashdot last month as well, wasn't it?
And if the net neutrality bill recently introduced into the senate passes (about the same as last year's attempt), you can hacketh away at your "computer", handheld to mainframe, and they can't say boo to ya about it.
Yeah, but sadly, you have to use the Task Manager all the time, because most of the included apps don't shut down when you close the window, in sharp contrast to app behavior on Windows.
Both of my sons tend to close windows on Mac applications, thinking that it's shut down the app. Then I point out to them that they've got 10 applications running, even though they think they have one. I sit down at an XP machine, and this issue goes away. Why does it reappear with more than half of the standard apps on my PPC-6700? Why does the thing sometimes get so unresponsive that I have waited 10 seconds for the screen to "come to life" from standby, only to determine that the thing has probably locked up, and rebooted it. (I tried calling it, just to make sure that it wasn't sleeping with the backlight off. No response.)
I would posit that it is virtually impossible for Apple to make a worse OS for a phone than WM5. All I can say good about it is that it's supposed to be better than the version before. THAT must have been painful. - Tim
QuantumG, I disagree with both of your posts:
/. most developers don't like it. I think: because they don't understand it, they lack experiance/education in this topic.
... or ... or, and you could objective decide which API is the better one. If you would do that, a lot of our days APIs would immediately drop out of competition. In fact they would don't really do that as programmers would simply start to compete (erm ... to argue) which set of metrics makes more sense and claim that one API only looks bad in one metric but better in the other ;D
... and is both hotspot optimized byte code and/or hard linked/compiled for fast startup, where it is useful.
[post one] as if a committee can create anything remotely good. Competing APIs are competing for a reason..
APIs don't compete. It's the organizations behind the APIs that do and its the OS or software based on the API that do. Regarding the committee, I don't know. But APIs are one thing that certainly should not be defined by the guys using the APIs but buy the guys having the most expertise in the problem domain and in API (framework) design.
[post two] from NextStep, FootStep and the other competing APIs of Objective-C based workstation GUIs.. not to mention that these APIs were also, and continue to, compete with non-Objective-C based APIs.
I do all GUI programming in either: GWT-AJAX, Swing, Qt (and in very rare cases C#/WinForms), also on the Mac, all my Mac applications I wrote are Java/Swing applications. Objective-C/XYZStep frameworks are absolutely no competition, I would never even consider one.
The same is true for every developer who has the choice, the general programmer will not pick a different language or API for doing his stuff. I would guess the migration of developers from KDE to GTK/Gnome and also into the other direction is more or less zero. The programmers tend to think the API (way of doing stuff, way to think) of their old familiar platform is better than the other platform.
For adopting new APIs (and that relates to designing them, even by committee) the very same is happening. Programmer like SWT (Java/Eclipse GUI library) because it is similar to the Win32 GUI API. OTOH Swing is a design by committee GUI framework) that is far superior to SWT and designed by GUI API specialists, but if you follow the crowed here on
Market and competition is far more than supply and demand and survival of the fittest. Its about: knowledge and education of teh customers, market penetration, market awareness, marketing etc. and finally even matter of taste. Beer does not compete with wine, I drink both, according to my current situation and mood.
I know about Objective-C and about OpenStep etc., but they are not my taste and I never will be in the mood to try them. Windows API and based on it WindowsForm meanwhile surely is the most commonly used GUI API on the world, but not because it is simple, or good, but because Microsoft is behind it. 95% of the developres on the world never saw that GUI programming can be done far more simple, like with Swing/Qt/OpenStep. Heck, even the PERL binding libs to GTK are 100 times more "consistent/intuitive/simple" than the Win32 API.
After all for a problem domain you always can make a sort of metrics like: ease of programming, platform neutrality, experienced speediness of the UI or
After all, if APIs would compete and the best would survive we all would program in a language that is OO/has multiple inheritance and mix-ins/supports functional and logic programming (by extending the object concept)/has an extendable syntax and compiler/has a wide and well defined class library (that also covers networking, DB access, and other J2EE alike stuff)/runs on a virtual machine
However, there is no such language / runtime environment.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I think Apple made a good decision with keeping out 3G actually. At least if they're rolling the phone out soon. I've had HORRIBLE exprerience with the 3G network of Cingular down here in south florida (boca raton area). Like... I can't make phones calls 75% of the time (being forgiving with that number... i actually expected my calls to not go through). The phone (Cing 8525... or tytn... or hermes... whatever you want to call it... it's an HTC...) would either beep at me thrice or I would get a "All lines are currently busy" message... all the time. I eventually installed a program that allows me to turn off 3G support... which allows me to make calls. When I want to use the internet, I turn it back on. Customers aren't going to want to do that, and they shouldn't be expected to. And when the phone has these problems, fingers are going to be pointed at Cingular and Apple... EDGE pretty much always works... at least as much as cell phone networks ever do.
Is it slow? Definitely. But, at least it isn't infuriatingly buggy. You can check email fine through EDGE, though I hated browsing the web for it. The only reason I haven't demanded my money back for my current phone is, quite frankly, I bought it more for the ability to use it as a modem than I did to have a phone... I'm not much for phones. However, phone works great on EDGE. iPhone will work great on EDGE. If Cingular ever fixes their 3G network, the new version of the iPhone will have 3G. Simple as that.
Your excellent list missed this one feature:
8. Random Access Voicemail.
This alone sold me on the phone. I don't even use voicemail because I don't want to wade through 25 messages to get to the one from the caller I just missed. I just call the person up who I see on my caller ID and ask them "what's up?" Being able to mass-delete voicemails instead of having to navigate voice menus is a killer-app as far as I'm concerned.
To support this feature, Cingular had to retool their own voicemail system. I am betting you're going to see this functionality added to the other providers, too. Hate the company for one-button mice and DRM as much as you like, you've got to give Apple credit as being a minority player in an industry forcing innovation on the rest of the players. They did this with USB, too. When the first iMac came out, Steve Jobs refused to include serial ports. It was the first computer to be USB-only. There were no USB printers or scanners at the time, but the strong sales of the iMac inspired peripheral developers to implement USB connectivity to make their products work with the #1 selling computer model.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
First, it creates a viable platform for developers, who can actually sell a product instead of simply trying to subsist in a tiny market on shareware donations.
Read: it limits competition allowing bigger SW firms to charge higher price.
Second, by creating a viable market, it allows developers to sell in quantity at a lower price. Apple targeted iPod games at $5 each; for comparison, typical Palm games are easily $20.
Is the AVERAGE price really $20 when you account for apps that are $0? Or did you subtract the free apps from your statistics?
Third, it ensures that junkware, adware, spyware, and malicious viruses can't put themselves on the iPhone.
Malicious viruses maybe, adware can be signed for sure. Because you will give developers a key for signing their programs - if you try to sign and compile their programs yourself, you will limit possibilities for delivering new versions, update, fixes....
Fourth, it allows Apple to enforce a standard of quality so that third party software doesn't turn the iPhone into a device known to crash or be riddled with security problems.
And I thought that OS X is a stable piece of software? Give me a break, if a _badly written_(not malicious) SW is able to CRASH the software, there is a bug in your OS.
Panic mongers who think that the iPhone needs to be a hobbyist development tool should take a good look at the state of development for Palm and WinCE before recommending a similar mess for Apple.Mess??? Don't know much about WinCE, but it seems to me that there is no 'mess' around Palm. Sure, the Palm API is old and doesn't scale, that _is a mess_. I just don't see a problem with free apps - what do you mean by 'mess'?
That said, Apple, Symbian etc. are trying to solve a problem 'every app has root privileges on PDA' combined with 'typical lame user WILL give root privileges to any app when asked'. But making a limited API for self-signed applications (Symbian) seems to me much more sensible approach, albeit not ideal. (Symbian API is really bad compared to apples...)
Damn, no mod points on me... and I already commented to this article, so even if I did, I counted use them.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
a Mac fanboy got mod status. . . just another example of why anonymous moderation isn't a great idea.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Article (1) doesn't even mention UMTS, article (2) points out that the iPhone has /some/ OSX code so it is running OSX, and article (3) just tries to prove the iPhone is oh-so-much better than MS's locked platforms (xbox,zune) without ever showing that iPhone can be a development target.
There's your summary. No need for TFA.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
Just use Ubuntu, and go for those.
Let me put it this way: Don't you think it's natural that howtos would say "On XP, do this, on OS X, do that"? Hell, it's often more like "On 98, do a, on XP/2K, do b, on OS 9, do c, on OS X, do d."
Just grab one. Ubuntu comes with Gnome, but you can install KDE, XUL, or whatever apps you want. The competing standards do not affect you as a user, nor should they affect you as a developer, other than just picking one and running with it.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Claus
When I was at the Cingular store, I saw a Windows Mobile cellphone model with a large touch screen and minimal buttons. It also had a slip-out keyboard which I thought was really cool and very easy to use. If my memory serves the price was something like $419.
Pocket Internet Explorer rendered web sites very well, probably as well as the iPhone. But the screen didn't show the whole page; it only showed small segments of it at a time. I really fell in love with the iPhone feature that lets you see the whole page and then "pinch" in and out. The gestures might be harder to learn than Steve makes it look, but I susspect it will be really, really nice once learned.
I liked using the touchscreen, so I think Apple made the right decision to use it. Their product would have been even better with a keyboard, but I think Steve was obsessed with making the device as thin as possible.
Steve has mentioned that 3G is coming, relatively soon. I think it will be needed for the European version, which interestingly enough emerged on Amazon.DK yesterday. I think Steve's real problem is that Cingular's 3G coverage map is lousy. They either forgot to mention Los Angeles, or they don't have any 3G coverage there at all! (They have San Diego but not LA!) Where I live there is no 3G at all, and none likely for some time.
There may be problems coming with Cingular. The sales guy tried to discourage me from trying to pull up web sites on the phone. He said "I don't think this is going to work, we've had coverage problems here in the store." As it happens, web pages came up, just very slowly.
The cold truth is that after having very bad experiences with Windows in the past, I am disinclined to buy Windows phone products no matter how much better they are than the lamentably anemic competition. If I didn't buy the iPhone I would have probably bought the Blackberry Pearl. I don't think third party application support is a Blackberrry strength, although obviously perfect email is. The Palm UI and design don't look like they've been updated in years.
What sort of third party software are you looking for, or use frequently?
I encountered a cellphone virus while in the Philippines and that sort of turned me off of third party software, since the same mechanisms that make that possible make viruses possible too. The virus sent pornographic SMS messages that were a great embarassment to the phone's owner. Worse, it sent $300 worth of them, in a country where the average monthly income is $300! I don't know if my friend with the phone was ever able to pay the bill. She was well off by Philippine standards but that means $1,000 a month instead of $300. If I hadn't stepped in and eradicated the virus for her I don't know what her bill would have been, and in the Philippines, phone companies don't remove bogus charges like American ones would have.
I told myself then that I was very happy that my T-Mobile Sidekick ran no software that wasn't vetted by the phone's maker. So widgets, which let me do cool things without actually putting software on the phone, look like a pretty good compromise.
D
I'm not sure what planet the Motorola guy who was quoted is on, and we know that author has wet dreams about Apple products, but his own evidence if wrong.
In the UK a lot of small traders will unlock mobile phones so they can be used on other networks (note Vodafone and T-Mobile do not lock their phones). While provider specific content may be lost, MMS, Internet, etc is not - only the configuration information, which will be sent down upon request in the form of a system SMS from your new provider.
What an idiotic piece of Apple fanboyism. Apparently, according to that article, all the handheld and mobile phone market needs is for companies to stop letting people load applications on phones and then it will explode. Oh, wait.
In any case, Apple missed the boat technically on this one. Maybe they'll succeed based on brand name and usability, but if they do, they'll take us back technologically to 1995.
Yes, Symbian OS phones will squash the iPhone because Symbian is comparatively open. just wait for a Symbian phone with an enterface almost as good as the iPhone, i.e. a multitouch UI & such. Plus Symbian OS will have pen entry which Jobs dislikes. So you'll be able to write emails & smses far far far more easily on a Symbian phone than on an iPhone. It'll be the absence of a pen which kills the iPhone.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
If you want to make a desktop app for Linux, right out of the gate you have to deal with competing desktop environments, competing APIs, and competing package managers.
Apparently, you're another one of those people who lives by the principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it.
In fact, the Linux desktop is highly standardized. And if you want to do shitty Apple-style "drag-and-drop install" apps, you can do that, too, although on Linux, the shortcomings of that installation style relative to a real package manager become starkly obvious.
Besides, I suspect that Gnome alone has more commercial users than OS X.
By the way, does anyone have the comments section from Slashdot for the introduction of the iPod?
You won't find me there. You might find me griping about Steve slandering flash players when he introduced the iPod Mini, though... I thought he was really missing the boat there. I'd been using a small flash player that only held a few hours of music, and loading it from a random playlist in iTunes. A lot like the wildly popular iPod Shuffle that came out a year later, and next year the "only $50 more" mini was dead.
Then there were all the people complaining that Apple didn't have a "headless" low end Mac, and Steve's response to that was "No Ugly Monitors on Nice Macs"... right up until he introduced the Mac mini. Which also sold like hotcakes, just like we expected. Hopefully he'll figure out that giving it decent graphics or at least a video upgrade path is a good idea... any month now... but until then the fanboys will be insisting that you don't need 3d support on a Mac.
Apple makes mistakes, too, see.
When they fix them, Apple fanboys like you seem to forget that they'd ever screwed up.
As much as one might bitch and moan about Windows, the freedom in *nix does make for anarchy
The notion that Windows is consistent and "vanilla" is a pipe dream; Windows exists in dozens of different versions and configurations. Real Windows systems have dozens of package and upgrade systems, numerous duplicated and inconsistent APIs, inconsistent file system layout, and inconsistent GUI conventions.
UNIX and Linux each are models of stability and consistency compared to the mess Microsoft is delivering with Windows.
I think this would be right place to post this new information. Our leader, Mr. Jobs claims nobody wants Java on devices and of course, this thing which claims to be 5 years ahead does not come with J2ME (yes,forget desktop) capability.
I wanted to post here before story gets archived since Slashdot gets the blame each time another freak announcement appears on main page.
There are 4 BILLION devices running Java btw.
Ed Burnette from ZDNet broke the story:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=238
Lets hope nothing happens to Apple desktop/portable because of this "Thing" and decisions like that. I am old enough to remember Amiga's game console adventures and what happened later.
...it basically calls anyone making these points dumb. But they're valid:
- $499 for a subsidized price? Not worth it, especially considering Cingular's reputation.
- Sure, you may never have to replace the battery and they do have kits to replace the iPod battery if necessary. But you're probably gonna use this battery more than you use your iPod, so wouldn't you rather have something you can easily pop out yourself instead of paying someone to do it?
- That whole scratches-too-easily thing? It wasn't the Zune that had problems with it getting damaged if you kept it in your pocket, it was the first generation Nano. Despite trying not to put it where my keys/change are, my phone still winds up being a little beat up. Which could be a problem if the entire front of your phone is the interface.
- And, outside of the few people who've been privledged enough to see this phone, no one's tried it before. So who really knows whether this phone is the innovation it is?
I'm not trying to bash the iPhone here - when I first saw it I thought Apple had a hit on its hands - but this article puts up a rather useless defense.
Oh what a load of crap. You have your story backwards-- a bunch of dig windows fanboys have been attacking RD and managed to get it banned from dig.... bu that tells us about the level of integrity of Dig users, not about RD.
I am continually dismayed at the legions of poser-geeks-- what you call fanboys, and you are one, by the way-- who have zero engineering skill or knowledge, but spout pre-written bullshit to bash politically correct targets all day long. Your ranks have swelled to the point that real geeks-- people with engineering knowlesge-- no longer participate in the forums you have taken over, like slashdot, and to a greater extent, digg.
People like you have ruined dig because you bury true stories that cover companies you hate (like RD Apple stories) and dig stories that are FUD in support of your chosen platform (Windows or Linux.)
That article you linked to--- the type of illogical "reasoning" that I've come to expect from the ignorant. Correlation is not causation, and of course, the reality is there was an active consipiracy to bash RD and get it banned from Dig-- the article you link to being an example-- for the sole reason that it talks about Apple in a favorable light.
Bottom line is, you have no intelligence, you just want to bash apple, and anyone who supports them.
Notice that your comment here is not about the topic, but about the writer.
Also known as an adhominem attack-- attackin the person rather than the point.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
The primary reason the Treo platform and PocketPC platforms are buggy and virus-prone... is because the operating systems are buggy and virus-prone, or at the very least they are crufty and insecure. I feel confident Apple could do a better job. They simply choose not to.
+++ATH0
Woohoo! Where can I get that for other platforms?
Right, its all a vast, anti-mac conspiracy. The FACT that 30 users registered immediately after a RoughlyDrafted story was posted, did nothing but digg the story, and then promptly disappeared off the face of the Earth, is completely a coincidence. Even though it happened several times in a row. No, let's just discount all the facts and make baseless assumptions because we disagree with the facts. It's a conspiracy I tell you!
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
I think it was a nice move for apple to come out with the apple iPhone. The iPhone has most features consumers have been waiting to have. I also think the price will not deter people from buying the Apple iPhone. I even think they will sell more then the 10 million Apple iPhone they expect to sell within the next year.