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Toshiba Touts 51GB HD DVD
srizah writes to mention that Toshiba plans to launch a 51 GB HD DVD, with a 1 GB advantage over Sony's Blu-ray disc. From the article: Toshiba has submitted a triple-layer, 51GB HD DVD-ROM disc to the standard's overseer in the hope the technology will be adopted as a standard by the end of the year. If approved, it allow the format to exceed the 50GB storage capacity of rival medium Blu-ray Disc. The HD DVD standard currently defines single- and dual-layer discs capable of holding 15GB and 30GB of data, respectively."
Ours goes to 51. Yes, but you see -- that's one more, isn't it? Fifty-one is one more than fifty, that's what makes it so special. It's one more.
John
Could this be the much-needed nail in the coffin for Blu-Ray? The sooner it dies (and you know it will, its backed by Sony), the sooner the HD-DVD industry can advance. Who'd want to buy while we're still in the midst of a format war and risk having the next Betamax? (Also a Sony product)
TDK actually has made six-layer 200 GB blu-ray disks, way back in 2006 :)
http://www.tdk.com/procommon/press/article.asp?sit e=con&recid=127
R&D: Billions of dollars.
Marketing: More billions of dollars.
Squeezing that extra GB out of your next-gen DVD to claim your format is "better": Priceless.
I wonder if this will mean new HD-DVD players and a whole new format way on the horizon. I get tired of this crap. This is why I'm waiting until one format to emerge, even if it takes another two years. Then I will go about buying a new DVD player and tv to support it.
Thus endith the rant.
I don't have a microwave. I do, however, have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
The profecy is fulfilled! Notice how 51 is 15 backwards... HD-DVD has come full circle.
Toshiba plans to launch a 51 GB HD DVD, with a 1 GB advantage over Sony's Blu-ray disc.
This will clearly make it victorious over blu-ray. The fact that the porn industry has chosen HD-DVD will have nothing to do with it.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Are you kidding me?
The previously capacity-challenged HD-DVD grows larger than its Blue-Ray rival, therefore eliminating the last remaining advantage or BR and more or less killing it in the short-to-medium term... Along with the PS3.
This just after HD-DVD encryption was broken? I have to get my tinfoil hat.
Karma cannot be described by words alone.
I'm just going to start calling Sony Mario, because they just got 1-uped!
None of these high capactiy DVD formats are going to get any traction at all for at least the next few years. DVD has just recently become ubiquitous, and I'm willing to bet that nobody is buying these new players yet (except for the ones in the XBox 360 and the PS3). The TV technology (plasma and LCD) is still unbelievably crappy and overpriced, so there's no real reason for these new formats yet.
Ok, I'm a tad confused
1 Layer = 15 gig
2 Layers = 30 gig (makes sense, 15 x 2)
3 Layers = 51 gig....wtf? 15 x 3 = 45
Error: Sig not found.
Will current HD-DVD players be able to read three layers disks? If that is not the case, they are adding to the DRM nightmare.
Now you have to check that:
- You are using the right disk with the right recorder BlueRay/HD-DVD
- You are using the right variety of disk that you recorder can read (triple layer won't work on old players).
- You have everything hooked using HDCP cabling.
- All of your hardware supports DRM (if it doesn't your content will be downgraded and you will be worst off than you would with a dvd player).
And off course, the way things are going, in no time your new shiny expensive hardware will be rendered obsolete by a new iteration of the technology and/or the Digital Restrictions Management schema imposed by the studios.
You have to be masochistic to refuse the easy route to High Definition, a DVI connector, P2P and a BFHD (Big F*****g Hard Drive).
When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
Someone's competitor plans to launch a product with a 2% advantage over the product you can already get, mere years after something with a 100% advantage was demonstrated, and within only 8 months of something with 200% advantage!
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Three football feilds and a volkswagen full.
(This article appears to be a dupe, so I might as well repost my comment from last time.)
The HD-DVD spec was finalized a while ago. HD-DVD players can only read two layers, therefore no movie can ever have more than two layers. All this talk about more layers is just PR wanking.
Since an MP4 at 51 Gig really provides little quality improvement over a 30G movie, the only real reason for this change is to Add more DRM.
And as for all existing players being unable to play these discs, that's the price you pay for being a HD-DVD early adopter. One would hope, despite their past track record, that Sony won't obsolete all their (say 500K) existing BluRay players just to squeeze out 2GB more.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
You seem a bit over the top. This is a 51 GB disk, TDK already has a 200GB Blu-Ray disk. Also, if you RTFA you might ahve noticed the words "The snag, of course, is that today's HD DVD players will be incapable of reading the new disc, which is something of a problem for early adopters, who will presumably have to buy new kit." This is NOTHING. Blu-ray is the better technology, and everyone knows it. Nobody wants to admit it because Sony, who created a rootkit, is backing it.
Release an update to blu-ray with 51.1 GB for spite.
...well, on the other hand this would propably mean massive product recalls which might most likely be not worth it.
We're talking volume here - I think you're going to have to go Metric and convert to Olympic-sized swimming pools as your measurement in this case.
I'm not a big fan of Blu-Ray (lack of standards is going to play havoc on first gen adopters) but if this was a fight about capacity HD-DVD would have been dead before it ever began. Capacity is about the only aspect of the next gen formats where there is a clear winner and it is not HD.
TDK was showcasing 100GB blu-ray discs almost two years ago and has recently shown off 200GB blu-ray discs. The problem is people are slow to adopt the use of next gen optical drives for performing important back ups and at present the excess capacity is next to useless for the movie industry.
This does help HD-DVD in that the increased capacity does help them match Blu-Rays superiority in the important TV DVD market. Previous to this you could fit an entire high def season on one BR disc but would be forced to use 2 or 3 HD discs. Now they can both meet the single disc hurdle.
I just hope someone wins this battle quickly and we'll get one standard for both PCs and movies or if not at least drives/players capable of reading both.
Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
A REAL slashdotter wouldn't have to ask. A REAL slashdotter would already know.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Should I tag this as "sony", "nail", or "coffin"?
. . .whatever it takes.
"If your parents never had children, chances are you wonât either." -Dick Cavett
There are several problems with your rant.
First, You call Star Wars I and II 'Top cinema productions'.
Then, you assume that HD-DVD is now superior to Blu-Ray in some meaningful way. (And no, that 1 GB of space it gains with a new format doesn't count)
Last, you assume that most people would be willing to pay $1000+ for a HD LCD Television.
If you wanted to make sense, you might say "People who are willing to pay a few thousand for a home movie experience should upgrade to HD". Then I don't think anyone would disagree.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
...in one basket. 51 GB on a single CD-sized disc means the data is more physically compact.... which just means you lose more data if the disc gets scratched. 51GB is an improvement from 700 MB, I suppose, but I think cooler things could be being done.
The data storage technology development seems to be progressing the same way video games were/are for a while. Video games pushed for more violence, more sex, a higher polygon count, neater visuals, blah blah blah. Too many of them are just the same old crappy first-person shooters, with prettier graphics. Hardly anything ground-breaking or new. So now we have a disc that holds more than the last disc.... Whoo.
I guess it's not really data storage's job to be exciting or entertaining, so comparing with video games might not be the most appropriate thing to do. On the other hand, where are those super-cool hologram storage things I remember hearing about years ago??
I caught the Mountain Wumpus! He gave me his treasure chest ($100) to let him go free again.
We'll just have to wait and see how long it takes before these discs become reasonable to manufacturer. Until then, I'm sticking to DVD.
Whether it's a better technology is irrelevant: Sony is being way more restrictive on content; HD DVD is not. That's where Sony will fall. If they stop trying to put a stranglehold on what can be placed on their format, they'll win. But as long as they act like Sony, they're going to lose.
all of this is a dead technology.
the future is flash.
i would rather have the Bluray
they were first to propose the idea, they came up with the best format(capacity wise) and they are the only ones to produce a PC-writer AFAIK. I don't care about past mistakes (Sony Media), they produce good shit.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:VnxqXuMZmM0J:h ddvd.highdefdigest.com/feature_ucontrolupclose.htm l+u+control+firmware+hd-dvd&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd =1
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
The war is already won by HD-DVD, for three reasons:
1. It's cheaper to produce
2. There's porn on it
3. Higher capacities don't matter for H.264/VC-1 encoded content
These map very closely to VHS vs Betamax war:
1. VHS was cheaper to product
2. There was porn on it
3. Higher image quality didn't matter much
Except #3 is not even about image quality this time around. Image quality is identical between two standards, they use the same codecs at the same bitrates.
Right already they're legally letting HD-DVD owners transfer content to laptops and other devices.
Wait - I'm sorry - that's Sony actually and Blue-Ray. HD-DVD is restrictive as fuck. Wow - I can't believe I almost fell for your trolling. Holy fucking shit!
You'll have to illegally crack your "nonrestrictive" HD-DVD.
Good luck with the RIAA, MPAA, and those pesky lawsuits.
FWIW - My 36" Sony CRT HD television has an amazing picture
So, who cares? It's news just for big players :-P
Every keeps comparing this to Betamax VS VHS and while the format war is valid comparison I think both formats are more likely to suffer the Laser Disk fate. Laser Disks offer slightly better quality than VHS but were ultimately doomed. They showed up right after VHS was ubiquitous but before people started to feel that VHS was outdated. Their large size and the fact that it took 4 disks to fit a feature film made them inconvenient.
The HD DVD formats are coming just as everyone has adopted DVD but most people still consider DVD to be relatively new. In this case it's not the size of the media but the DRM and format war that are going to make them to inconvenient. The question people will ask them selves is. Is the quality that much better to go through the expense of replacing my DVD collection (that I just finished upgrading from VHS)and the hassle of figuring out what hardware I need to actually watch the damn. Personally I don't think so.
Maybe when we all have 1080p televisions instead of 1080i/720p but even then I doubt it will realy look that much better
While I know Holographic Versatile Discs (HVD) are still quite experimental/in development, the technologies it utilizes are far beyond the scimpy Blu-ray/HD-DVD conundrum. HVDs are able to push 300GB+. If you took the R&D money currently being pumped into Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, and if Sony/Toshiba combined forces on HVDs, it would be amazing how fast they would come to market, and there would be no tit-for-tat between companies. 51GB? BAH HUMBUG! 300 GB? yeaaahhh baby!! That is where the future lies
Nigel Tufnel: [pointing to a customized Marshall amplifier head unit] This is a top, to, uh, you know, what we use on stage, but it's very, very special, because, if you can see...
...the numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board: eleven, eleven, eleven, eleven...
...nowhere! Exactly! What we do is if we need that extra... push over the cliff, you know what we do?
...Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Yeah...
Nigel Tufnel: [pointing to the control dials]
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is that any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most... most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up... you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know...
Nigel Tufnel:
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel:
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder, and make ten be the top... number, and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause, blank look and snapping chewing gum] These go to eleven.
T.
1. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce. WRONG! :)
production cost depends on volume. Also sony has cross licence for blue laser diodes and is the largest manufacturer thanks to ps3 volumes
2. There's porn only on HD-DVD WRONG!
One publisher said he got rejected from the disc manufacturers, and this rumor started. There is no official word either from the disc manufacturer or from sony but here is a link to bluray porn sold in Japan which proves this is not true.
http://bluray.adultdvd.jp/
3. Higher capacities don't matter for H.264/VC-1 encoded content WRONG!
Those are storage formats and burners will help decide the fate of the formats. As of now bluray has 50Gb 4x writers in the market and prototypes for 100gb and 200gb. HD-DVD has a prototype for 15gb 1x and now announced this read-only 51gb.
Sorry for posting anonymous. my login is aug17th, I am at the office and forgot my password and I cant access personal mail (only read slashdot
And here is a definitely redundant post, but I suppose from a certain size one cannot expect that everyone reads every reply.
2 .html
Apparently the 'no porn' policy does not exist. See:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070112-860
Check out this story, in which one producer at a trade-show talks about player distribution being higher for HD-DVD because of the XBox360...
I don't know the porn industry, but I do know BS when I see it.
That's what seems to be my greatest worry. DVD for a long time was considered crazy fragile when you compared it to CD, ie if you scratched it it was wrecked. If they are making these crazy multi layer high capacity discs are they not just becoming that much easier to inadvertently destroy?
"The stupider people think you are, the more surprised they will be when you kill them..."
"Yesterday's technology today!"
I'll tell you what I think -- Sony supports "Blu-Ray" -- and they hosed a computer of mine (ok, a relatives) with a root-kit. Disney seems to support "Blu-Ray" -- just advertised all their movie-wares on Blu-Ray. I don't like their attitude toward Copyright Extension. (But I do like Squeak, go figure).
So, I lean to HD-DVD, just to pimp-alap Sony and Disney a bit. You know?
Do I care about the GB? As long as its lots, and (reasonably) reliable, no. Now, if they came up with a disc/changer that was affordable (say $500 US) that would burn a terrabyte without attention overnight. I would kiss them, no, I would get a sex-change and have their babies. Oh, that was a bit extreme... But I would definitely kiss them.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Ours goes to 51. Yes, but you see -- that's one more, isn't it? Fifty-one is one more than fifty, that's what makes it so special. It's one more.
Of course...Spinal Tap had an amp with 11 on the volume knob...so they could play louder than any other band. That worked for them...until the next band came up with an amp with 12 on the volume knob.
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia. - Charles M. Schulz
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
i cant believe all of you are still trying to figure out who will win the format war. really i have to say you only argue because you dislike sony.
but look at the facts blu-ray can in reality hold more (up to 200GB)
more studio's back blu-ray, which is the biggest thing.
and do you know why they back blu-ray? because of the reason you give that they should back hd-dvd its easy to convert factories over from dvd its really cheap to produce... cost
for awhile in asia they will actually have to buy movies produced by hollywood while they buy all new equipment, if it was hd-dvd it would be easy to continue bootlegging. but now the cost and all the new equipment means for a little whle they will actually have sales in asia...
(and dont argue long term this or that, ive yet to see a company really look into the future its all about the short-term dollar, only people who make sense think about long-term and its sure the hell not major corporations that make sense)
Yeah, But Can you turn it up too 11?
Digital projection has arrived, and it allows a movie to open simultaneously in at least the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand. (Ever notice that anglophone countries tend to come in pairs?) A week later, it opens in other countries, subbed into a dozen different languages. If that's not enough, then just delay the HD DVD release until the worldwide theatrical run has completed. Release the DVD first and then the "collector's edition" HD DVD.
True, 1080 scanlines look better than 480 scanlines at an appropriate distance, but the overwhelming majority of mass-market motion pictures are still filmed at rates of 25 fps or less.
Yes, but which one scratches easiest?
BlooRay or HDDVD?
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
From a (torrent-happy) end-users perspective, CAPACITY IS KING!
n _Video
I'd hardly buy any hardware based on the fact that it can finally store 2 or 3 hours of video from some particular codec (H.264 in this case). These days they come out with a new codec every other week it seems - so it would be silly to buy hardware based on some software spec that is bound to change. Once they figure out that its possible to mass produce hardware capable for 2 or 3 or 10 times the capacity, somebody will invent a codec for that I'm sure... even if the older codecs would work just fine.
I don't know about you guys, but when I walk into Futureshop (Canadian electronics store), I am not at all impressed by any of the flat screen TV sets. Be it LCD or Plasma. I think the TV market has a looooong way to go before they reach the resolutions & crispness of older CRT computer monitors.
UHDV is a starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definitio
But there's a few hurdles:
1) Requires Fiber to the home from Cable provider (how else you gonna stream multi-gigabit/sec video?)
2) Requires huge-ass disks (i.e. 10 layer Blue-Ray+)
3) Requires players that support this.
One last little prediction. I have a feeling this format war is going to carry on for quite a while yet... because TV / Video is nowhere near its threshold potential in terms of quality, and manufacturers product cycle is faster and faster... that's why in the space of 2 or 3 years, we've gone from DVD to HD-DVD, to BlueRay, and now to multi-layer of each platform with no end in sight.
It's not porn that's going to decide the winner of the format war this time. It's capacity... because capacity determines max quality from the video industry's perspective, and from users like me, it translates to max storage per disk which also means convinience.
Adeptus
No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
51 GB of porn in the standard 1 CD rip size would be 74.606 audio/video interleaves(avi for the laymen) of pr0n goodness, and with an average of 1 and a half hours, thats 111.9 hours of hot actioooooon. Although I do prefer rips based on the size of a DVD-5, like 1/4(1120 MB) for stuff under 1.5 hrs , 1/3(1493 MB), 1/2 (2240 MB) for LOOONG ass movies and the matroska(mkv) container for its versatility. Honestly, who still burns this stuff to CD?
In other news, Toshiba beats dead horse.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Hi-Vision-Revolution-2007- Blu-ray-Disc/dp/B000LPRM0K
I haven't seen anybody give a valid reason why "Bluray sucks" other than bashing on Sony and their past mistakes. From a technical standpoint is a superior format and you can't deny that (same basic specs, but is made to be more "future-proof" than HD-DVD, not to mention it has java support which can make for some interesting BD's in the future).
Not to mention Sony is not the only company involved in the BDA. Apple, if you didn't know, is also part of the BDA. I'm also surprised that slashdotters haven't put their support behind a disk format that has been usable by regular users since almost the beginning (you can buy a bluray burner on newegg). It is currently a more expensive format, but the cost per gigabyte is lower and it's usability is higher. Not to mention that bluray players have a higher chance of playing multiple layer disks (like the 4-layer) with just the use of a firmware upgrade than HD-DVD players do (since they upped the layer capacity for some unknown reason). Read the Wikipedia articles if you really want to know the merits of either format. From what I know and from what I've read, I see absolutely no benefit from HD-DVD over Bluray.
I seriously want one person to give me a VALID reason why HD-DVD is better than Bluray
You always hear the group of gals claiming "size doesn't matter, its how the thing is used". I think the same holds true here. It is how the media is used. I.e. the video content, DRM (or lack of), the availability of content (ahem, pron, ahem), and the features of the player. Sure, sure, the computer geeks will always point out who's is bigger, but I don't think that will win the war in the end.
I'm a newb linux user. If I have one of these HD or Bluerays, would this be Ideal for running a live cd? Seeing as it has lots of space? Now, would it be better if these discs were RE-writable? Meaning It's a storage device that's never just one copy of any given thing. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas, or even examples of what I'm talking about here?
Indoctrinate : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments Educate : to develop mentally, morally, or aestheti
You can't trust any electronics store displays of screens, in brightly lit rooms, set to 'torch mode' contrast and sharpness, and hell, they probably don't even have the aspect ratio on the DVD player set correctly, to tell you how good a screen is.
Go to a dedicated HT shop, where they have viewing rooms, and take a look.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I don't care so much about the format war. I now have 2 HD-DVD players (1st gen Toshiba & XBOX 360 add-on). The picture and sound that is possible with HD-DVD really is pretty awesome. If you have a decent setup, it really is worth the extra $$$$, IMHO. All I want is a "Universal" player that plays HD-DVD, DVD-A, BLU-RAY, and SACD. Now is that SO hard to do? Well, I guess maybe it is....sigh.
I have NEVER bought a porn DVD-Video. I have NEVER bought a porn VHS. I have ONCE bought a porn magazine. I have around 350 commercial audio CDs, and around 200 commercial DVD-Videos. I have about 10 PS2 games, and about 20 PSX games.
If you think that porn is a big industry compared to music, films or cosole games then you're living in a fucking sweaty basement dreamworld. If ANY porn HD-DVD or BD outsells Fantastic Four I'll eat my own head.
Wasn't it about 2 years ago that Sony showed off an eight-layer Bluray disc with a 400gb capacity? It's one thing to demonstrate how much these discs can scale, but it's quite another to actually mass-produce the media along with compatible players.