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Michael Dell Returns to CEO Role at Dell

head_dunce writes "It looks like Michael Dell is jumping back into the big chair at Dell because his company is slipping under the direction of Kevin Rollins. I wonder if they should be looking outside the company for new ideas, or if going back to basics is what needs to be done?"

165 comments

  1. Quid Pro Quo? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    On hearing Michael was returning to Dell, a reporter asked Steve Jobs what he would do if given the opportunity to run Dell.

    His reply: "What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders,"

    Joking aside, how things have turned around hey? Although to be fair to Dell, prior to getting his CEO role back, Jobs also said about Apple "If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago.")

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by djupedal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Joking aside, how things have turned around hey? Although to be fair to Dell..."

      Want to be fair? Let's take another look at the Dell business model, shall we?

      The industry works according to many 'rules', one of which is the 80/20 citation, saying between two parties, for every dollar transacted at the end, one party will get 80% and the other 20%.

      As an example, let's say HP sells a monitor, that is actually manufactured by Samsung. HP knows it will garner approx. 80% of every dollar transacted on the final sale. One monitor sold, at a retail price of USD100.00, which Samsung charged HP $50 for, means a profit of USD$50.00. HP knows that after all expenses are paid, they will net 80%, or USD $40.00 out of that USD$50.00. Samsung knows that after all expenses are paid on their end, they will net USD$10.00 (20% out of that USD$50.00 profit on the back).

      As an investor, you typically assume that if you buy HP stock, they will work to maintain that 80% - same with Samsung being expected to negotiate their 20%.

      If you learned that HP was settling for 70% and letting Samsung get away with 30%, you might be less inclined to invest in HP and start throwing money into Samsung instead, right? And if that kept up, it would just be a matter of time before HP went out of business, as it rightly should, under such circumstances.

      Dell, on the other hand, ignores the gentleman's agreed 80/20 and pushes for as much more as they can get...90/10, anyone? 95/5? 100/0...? Been there, seen that.

      Substitute Dell for HP in the above, and then consider...what happens? Dell is a GREAT company and investors love the ROI. Samsung, on the other hand, needs to tread lightly - perhaps it can afford to participate at 90/10 for a short time, hoping that Dell will eventually back off and both sides can move towards a profit balance, but if Samsung continues and doesn't pay attention, it soon starts to collapse. Can't pay bills or negotiate decent contracts with suppliers...investors start walking away. Samsung dies because Dell hollowed them out.

      This is the Dell model. Hollow out your suppliers and when one dies, move to another. Scorched earth 21st century style. Nice for Dell, right? Not in the long run, because the day will come when there are either no more suppliers to kill, or no supplier will do business with them. Both of those have happened, and that is where we are today.

      Dell is dead, period, as we know it. Maybe Micheal should consider selling sugared water :) I'd rather he stayed away from business altogether.

    2. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let me preface my reply by saying I've never bought Dell and don't like Dells (but nor particularly dislike them).

      But the business model you describe of butchering your suppliers sounds like wal-mart. And they're not going anywhere.

      Dell's problem is not their business model, but others copying their business model. (apple?)

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    3. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by djupedal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "...others copying their business model. (apple?)

      Back in the day, Apple had the lead by being able to shorten the time between when a product was made and when it hit the buyer to as little as 8 days in the pipe. This amazed Compaq and HP, who found it hard to get below 15~17 days.

      Dell copied Apple, and when things changed and the typical increment that most enjoyed went back up to around 12 days in the pipe, Dell, due to the pressure put on suppliers, managed as little as 5 days. Now, everyone is selling commodity and short pipes have a different weight than just a few years ago.

      And now we have Dell, stuck in the old ways, no longer willing or able or too proud to follow others, perhaps due to the hollowing out model being their core method, and wham....face down on the mat. That makes them a one trick pony in my book. Bye, bye Dell!

    4. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by suv4x4 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Jobs also said about Apple "If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago."

      Funny right.. and this is exactly what he's doing. On his last presentation they dropped the "Computers" part of their name, and it's more and more obvious they are MOVING (not EXPANDING) into consumer electronics.

      The Macs are now PC's which can run Windows as well... Maybe we'll see in few years OSX as a platform running INSIDE Windows Vista? You never know.

      I'd say, Jobs is pretty consistent with what he said in all cases.

    5. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Informative
      Wal-mart plays hardball with suppliers (I've worked with them personally), but it understands it's place, just as the supplier knows theirs.

      Dell outright butchers suppliers. There is indeed a difference. I suggest looking up both "symbiotic" and "parasitic" on Wikipedia.

    6. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by mccalli · · Score: 1

      Want to be fair? Let's take another look at the Dell business model, shall we?...This is the Dell model. Hollow out your suppliers and when one dies, move to another. Scorched earth 21st century style. Nice for Dell, right? Not in the long run, because the day will come when there are either no more suppliers to kill, or no supplier will do business with them. Both of those have happened, and that is where we are today.

      For further information, see Jack Tramiel and style and fate of Commodore. Sounds identical.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    7. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by eshefer · · Score: 1

      > Jobs also said about Apple "If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth -- and
      > get busy on the next great thing"

      which is EXACTLY what he did and is doing now..

    8. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not in the long run, because the day will come when there are either no more suppliers to kill, or no supplier will do business with them.
      This is just dumb, before it gets to this point the supplier will simply demand more money and Dell will either have to take it or leave it. By the way, Samsung is doing great.
    9. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      or its the fact that there's less profit in computers?

      You can buy a Dell for $359. $52.50 for Windows and $200 for parts leaves around $100 a computer for warranty work and employees. Compare this to ten years ago, where you'd have a lot more money after Windows and parts.

    10. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Heembo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yea, there is a better way. Take a look at Cosco. They demand that you as a supplier play by a few bulk rules, but otherwise I was SHOCKED to see them pay a very fair price for goods, not to mention they take care of their employees reasonably well; much better than the likes of WalMart. Research Cosco's and others business practices, there is a better way.

      --
      Horns are really just a broken halo.
    11. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That's stupid. That's just a variation on the old Wal-Mart is killing their suppliers so they are evil routine. Samsung is a billion dollar company with very smart people running it, as are most of Dell's suppliers. If they can't negiotiate workable deals, they don't belong in business.

    12. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by djupedal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "...before it gets to this point the supplier will simply demand more money and Dell will either have to take it or leave it."

      Oh if it were only that simple of a game :)

      Here is how it actually goes... The supplier's people start yammering to themselves about cutting bad customers loose, and it's up to the sales guys to run point and try to force the buyer to put up or walk. The buyer, however, eats sales staff for snack - a quick smile and "Look, do it our way all this year, and next year, if you pull all tens on the appraisals, you can name your price for a change. We will even put it in writing." So, the sales guys cave and spend the next year biting their nails and drinking themselves into a pain-free state. They move on...time moves on. New sales guys come into the fray and when supplier appraisals come out, just prior to refreshing contracts, the numbers don't quite make it & the process repeats and so does the gutting by Dell. Note that this does not go unnoticed by the higher-ups on the supplier side, however. Someone mentions they should cut Dell loose and let them cut down a competitor for a while, but...an SVP comments "...there is perhaps some value in sales being chewed on as long as the competition can't claim Dell as a customer - try your best to keep the blood-letting to a minimum and do what needs to be done to secure a contract renewal". The sales devision takes another beating while R & D gets to enjoy...oh look! Money! Dell investment on the side!

      Point is, business does not have to be so brutal. Both sides can come out ahead on all counts without cocking the pistols and clubbing each other as a routine.

      "By the way, Samsung is doing great."

      Duh - what I gave was a simple enough scenario to serve point-making...hardly detailed reality. Anyone dumb enough to not see that _should_ be anonymous :)

      And again, it's not that simple. Samsung has many divisions, from Finance to SDI, etc. Samsung Electronics covers monitors and TVs, while the memory guys get all the attention. Samsung as a whole IS doing great and will continue for years, but there will always be one division trailing another. That's why the TV division, after being on it's own for 15 years and stagnant, was folded into Monitors a few years back. Funny thing that, since Monitors were split off from the TV division back in the '80s, when Samsung first made those little monochrome displays for something called a Macintosh, that wasn't a TV at all, and no one was sure it was even worth a look :)

    13. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I disagree with you somewhat but it appears that you put some thought into this, so maybe you're right. In my view, the approach you describe may work on some Mom&Pop shop but not on a factory with experienced sales stuff. Surely, they've seen it all before, right?

      Anyway, I've not bought anything from Dell in... well, ever. So what do I care? It just confirms for me that running GNU/Linux on a commodity hardware you can't go wrong.

    14. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Khuffie · · Score: 1
      Let me preface my reply by saying I've never bought Dell and don't like Dells

      Considering your username, that's not surprising ;)

    15. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by udderly · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Costco competes with the club store branch of Walmart, which is Sam's Club. I believe employees at Sam's Club are paid more than those at Walmart stores.

      But to your point, it is possible to be a profitable company and not abuse your employees and suppliers. Trader Joes is a privately held grocery store/health food store company that pays employees far above the industry average. Also, many suppliers like to do business with TJs, since they pay in cash, instead of stretching out the supplier for 90 days or more.

    16. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Costco

      Fuck.

    17. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here's what happens. Most corporations use DELL or HP for their IT supplies. Some of the enlightened ones use IBM or other sources, but most have fallen to Dell's sales people's promises and selected Dell as their supplier for IT.

      Here is the problem, when I worked at my last job we would buy Lattitude laptops by the thousands. Yes, an order of 1000 or more laptops is considered normal. The pricing we would get would be silly. WE were paying what you would pay if you went online and bough the same item in single quantity. sorry, but if I was buying 1000 laptops I would demand that I would get pretty darn close to reseller prices and not $10.00 less than full retail.

      Dell has good sales people that make sure they keep their marks, I mean customers, in check and take them out for dinner/lunch on a regular basis. I used to have to fight to get Xerox laser printers or HP servers in the building because the Dell sales guy had the CTO so deep in his pocket.

      Dell wins because they have an incredible sales team for the big cooperate accounts. THAT is how you win. Not better product, not world class service. Incredibly good sales people.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    18. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Chapter80 · · Score: 1
      I think it's time for Dell to sell out to HP.

      HP, the absorber of the losers in the computer wars:

      • Apollo 4/89
      • AT&T UNIX Development Team 1996
      • Compaq 5/02
      • Convex 9/95
      • Data Systems (from Union Carbide) 1966
      • DEC (Compaq) 5/02
      • Microcom (Compaq) 3/97
      • Tandem (Compaq) 5/02
      • Texas Instruments Data Systems Group 10/92
      • VoodooPC 9/06
    19. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by xrobertcmx · · Score: 1

      Funny, that is the exact model that I have been told was used to roll out NT by Microsoft. Woo the execs, and they place the order and force the staff to impliment their decision.

    20. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Your problem is that your CTO is a tool. We get crazy good pricing from Dell (way way way below their advertised prices). You need to bring in the other vendors every couple of years to "reevaluated your current hardware platforms". This is especially effective when you're getting ready to make a very large purchase. Then you bring in Dell, HP and IBM so they beat each other up on price.

      Hopefully whoever you're using now (Dell in your case) will come close enough to the other's pricing so you don't have to switch hardware platforms. If not, meh... If the cheapest guy's hardware and support looks decent, just use them instead.

    21. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by XPACT · · Score: 1

      I have never owned DELL, except for the fact that someone opened an account with my SSN#. That is right, I have been a victim of Identity Theft. I am trying to fix that as we speak. Now I am threatened to be given to collector agency. How they did allow this to happen at firs place? The computer was not ordered with my name neither on my address and I still have to prove that it wasn't me. Screw you DELL !!!!!!!!!I would never buy a single shit from DELL. Either build my own (now it is even more expensive) or my money go to HP, at least they have some nice lookuing design on their monitors and computer towers . Got one HP1905b (19'' monitor) and a a1600n (AMD X2 CPU) even the mainboard in that HP is made by ASUS.

    22. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by jcr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is the Dell model. Hollow out your suppliers and when one dies, move to another.

      That may be the Dell model, but there's one supplier they can't do that to, and that's Microsoft. The bulk of the profit on any PC these days goes to Redmond, and there just isn't enough margin available for the hardware makers to afford quality.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    23. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those companies Dell is supposedly butchering are not going anywhere because foreign governments are subsidizing those companies. Do you actually think Samsung got to where it is today through "free" business tactics?

    24. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by operagost · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is official; Netcraft confirms: Dell is dying

      One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Dell community when IDC confirmed that Dell market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Dell has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Dell is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

      You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Dell's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Dell faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Dell because Dell is dying. Things are looking very bad for Dell. As many of us are already aware, Dell continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

      Poweredge is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time Poweredge developers Benjamin Curtis and Mary Stein only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Dell is dying.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    25. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't this the point of a free market? You actually think suppliers should set their own prices? You must LOVE the phone company!

      Running each supplier down to the lowest cost they will sell at is business. If you're not doing it, you're hurting yourself. If a supplier can't beat costs, either he is inefficient compared to his competitor, or his competitor is taking a loss. Either way, what would I care, as a purchaser, what the story is? How do I even know?

    26. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by jcr · · Score: 1

      I have never owned DELL, except for the fact that someone opened an account with my SSN#

      WTF? Why in the hell is a computer vendor asking for a customer's SSN?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    27. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by jb.hl.com · · Score: 1

      The John Lewis Partnership are similar in the UK. They're a department store and supermarket group who are wholly owned by their employees, as such giving them various democratic rights and a lot of say in how the business is run. Suppliers are treated well, and the supermarket division have school-building projects and such in countries which supply their fruit.

      As for profit, well, the dept. stores were pretty much the only stores in the UK which actually increased sales last Christmas IIRC...

      (Disclaimer: I work for them)

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    28. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by zonx+lebaam · · Score: 1

      > ... Maybe we'll see in few years OSX as a platform running INSIDE Windows Vista ... Or maybe it'll be running inside BSD Unix instead. :)

    29. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      My wild guess would be, to apply for a line of credit.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    30. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should hire that Steve guy to be the CEO!!!!

    31. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Even if your unsubstantiated premise is true, which it's most likely close enough, there is no reason to believe, and you've offered no evidence to support, your conclusion. What it boils down to is that Dell is a tough negotiator with its suppliers, it not only gets favorable deals but it also gets favorable terms, and that's just good, hard-nosed business. It's suppliers are responsible for negotiating deals that are good for their businesses and if they don't do so it's their own fault. Dell won't have trouble finding suppliers to do business with.

      Dell's slip has occurred because MD stepped down and Rollins was getting the job done. It has nothing to do with Dell having exhausted all the suppliers willing to business with them. For all those drawing Walmart comparisons, Michael Dell idolizes Sam Walton. It's probably as good a comparison as you'll find.

    32. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by dcam · · Score: 1

      Dell has this retarded sales model where they segment the market into home, small business and large business. This means they charge more to their business customers. To get the same price as Joe average consumer pays you have to fight them for a discount. And when you have to fight for a discount you never quite know if you have pushed them enough.

      They also sell substantially the same products and don't differentiate them well.

      --
      meh
    33. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by XPACT · · Score: 1

      Well that was DELL FINANCIAL SERVICES and the bank that works for them. I guess they have applied for credit. Whatever $20- $40per month for the computer. I don't know what kind of offers they have and what kind of anual APR% http://www.dellfinancialservices.com/ I think they are many people like me. I would never ever buy anything from DELL. http://dfs.us.dell.com/service/Static/pres_Identit yTheft.asp/

    34. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      The bulk of the profit on any PC these days goes to Redmond, and there just isn't enough margin available for the hardware makers to afford quality.

      That is nonsense. There are plenty of quality PC makers out there selling PCs bundled with MS products.

      Asus is one good example... They make great laptops.

      Just because there's low end PCs doesn't spoil the entire PC range.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    35. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by PeelBoy · · Score: 1

      I've been hearing this for YEARS and honestly Dell doesn't look like they're dying to me. The last time I heard somebody tell me this was about 6 years ago and none of the guys predictions came even close to what he described would be happening by now.

      As for Dell butchering suppliers.. We all know it's happening but I've yet to see all of these bad things people keep predicting. Intel seems to be doing fine as well as Microsoft and Nvidia, ATI and all of the other suppliers seem to be doing OK. (The ones who are doing bad such as Nvidia are not blaming dell they're blaming Sony's PS3 etc).

      I'm sure I'll hear about all of this doom and gloom in another 5 years and I'll probably laugh it off then too.

      These things have a way of working them selves out. If Dell is screwing people over they'll get theirs in the end. No sense in crying about it or bitching about it. It'll happen on it's own.

      I'm sure you can dig in your bag of tricks and find something to throw my way so do it. Show me all of the major suppliers Dell has put out of business already.

    36. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by PeelBoy · · Score: 1

      I've known several people who worked for Sam's Club and NONE of them had a single good thing to say about that place. I think they might have made more than somebody working at Walmart but it obviously wasn't enough to put up with the way they were treated.

    37. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by jcr · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of quality PC makers out there

      That assertion tells me that you're rather young, or that you have a short memory. At the time that I left the PC world for the Mac (1984), you could buy PCs from HP, DEC, IBM, Grid, and many other suppliers that were built like tanks.

      Go on down to a surplus store sometime, and have a look at a Compaq, DEC Rainbow or TI PC from the mid-80's. That was some serious quality construction, and it was possible back when a manufacturer was able to make 25% gross margin or better on a PC. The motherboards wouldn't flex in your hand if you waved them in the air, the power supplies weren't under-spec'd, and the fans were adequate even if you had every slot populated. Ever since Dell and Gateway got into their headlong race to the bottom of the barrel, makers of higher quality hardware have been very hard to find.

      Asus may be about as good as it gets today in that market, but that's not saying much.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    38. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      But the business model you describe of butchering your suppliers sounds like wal-mart. Actually, it sounds a lot like Commodore. They would pay their suppliers very slowly, and then if a supplier got into financial trouble, they would stop paying them altogether and let them go bankrupt, then swoop in and buy the supplier for cheap and then forgive their own debt. That's how Jack Tramiel destroyed the lower end of the personal computer industry.
      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    39. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      You seem to imply in this post that Dell/Gateway's rush for the bottom caused the loss of quality in the home computer market (I'd generally agree with this, although I think it's a problem faced by the wider Consumer Electronics market rather than just PCs).

      But your original post seemed to imply that it was MS's margins responsible for the lack of quality in the PC world.

      Which is it?

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    40. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by jcr · · Score: 1

      These are not mutually exclusive. With Microsoft rendering real differentiation impossible, the race to the bottom was a foregone conclusion. It was going to happen eventually, whether it was Dell or some other company that started it. Now, with the lion's share of the profit in the industry going to Microsoft, all that windows users can look forward to is stagnation.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    41. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      the race to the bottom was a foregone conclusion. It was going to happen eventually,

      If that's the case, then why has their also been a slide in the quality of hardware from companies that don't rely on MS (Sun, Apple)?

      I think blaming MS for the slide in PC quality (and prices) is somewhat naive of you. It ignores the fact that hardware quality is sliding everywhere (Unix Servers, non-windows PCs, stereos, TVs, everything)

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    42. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      If a supplier can't beat costs, either he is inefficient compared to his competitor, or his competitor is taking a loss.
      ...OR he's spending more on quality parts, to make halfway decent equipment that won't catch fire after running for a few hours...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    43. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Having worked as a HW designer for a while, I am certain there is no relationship between price, brand name, and quality. Right out of school, I used to think "Screw it, just use ". Yet , one of the more reputable DRAM vendors that most engineers would choose if they had no price concerns, had one product that began to fail at higher end temps (well within spec) with a particular chipset, while ALL other vendors tried, did NOT fail, and while other factors under consideration (SI, etc.) were within spec sheet limits. Something was wrong with this component, fortunately it was revealed prior to mass production but we're not always so lucky, that part could have been substituted in later, and never gone through rigorous testing until customers found it the hard way. The vendor in question, refused to fix the problem, and was prevented on bidding for a number of years as a result. This is ALSO part of managing suppliers, and why you may see companies from time to time NOT allow certain vendors to bid, even though you may think of them as "better" than their competitors.

      There are a number of variables you can control, it is your job as an engineer to spec out all criteria you care about, and get it in writing that the product in question will meet that criteria. All those meeting the criteria can then bid, and you take the lowest bid. If that vendor screws you, and it has happened, you punish them by taking business from them for a while and giving it to their competitor. That's also business. If you screw up your spec, and your business chooses a low quality supplier, then you've hurt your company, shame on you. Your suppliers will survive by having other people to sell to, who did a better job, or in the event where all companies fail to see the uncontrolled variable resulting in "low quality", you put your marketing machine in gear and advertise your advantage. If it is worthy, (and quality control is absolutely critical to the profitability of consumer HW, no matter where you work) people will take notice, otherwise you're just overpriced and producing something that the world doesn't need.

      So many people, especially Apple zealots, like to pull the "quality part" card, but it's bogus. Apple, for example, uses Quanta for many of it's designs. So does Dell. So does HP. So do many computer mfg's. Money exchanges hands for the finished product. All they do is specify exit criteria (including tests to run). Quanta, and companies like that, are doing part selection and substitution maintenance.

      There's very little "part quality" difference between most machines, what usually is different is the level of testing, and the standards for releasing a product. Apple may hold up a new product because of what PC vendors consider to be a minor flaw. That's the real difference between PC's and Apples, and it makes all the difference in the world.

    44. Re:Quid Pro Quo? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Having worked as a HW designer for a while, I am certain there is no relationship between price, brand name, and quality.
      I agree that higher price doesn't mean higher quality parts. However, the inverse is usually true... The very cheapest parts are almost always crap.

      Specs are nice, but like anything else, it's often cheaper for suppliers to over-promise, and take the gamble on having to pay up later...

      That's the real difference between PC's and Apples
      Where's DEC when you need them?
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  2. obligatory by macadamia_harold · · Score: 4, Funny

    It looks like Michael Dell is jumping back into the big chair at Dell because his company is slipping under the direction of Kevin Rollins.

    Dude, Dell's gettin' a Dell.

  3. well by CalSolt · · Score: 4, Funny

    It worked for Apple, didn't it...?

  4. Here's some suggestions for Mike by Centurix · · Score: 5, Funny

    dPod
    dPhone
    dBook

    etc...

    --
    Task Mangler
    1. Re:Here's some suggestions for Mike by Lars+T. · · Score: 5, Funny

      dLusions - of granDell

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    2. Re:Here's some suggestions for Mike by MarkRose · · Score: 1

      How delliteful!

      --
      Be relentless!
    3. Re:Here's some suggestions for Mike by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      What, no "Beowulf cluster" jokes? Too suDell?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    4. Re:Here's some suggestions for Mike by SirKron · · Score: 1

      dOne dUde!

  5. DUDE!!! by acedotcom · · Score: 0

    Dude, you are still getting a crappy computer.

    --
    they say it is often more relevant then the comment above, all we know is its called the Sig!
  6. Improve Customer Support by freedom_india · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The first priority of Michael Dell should be to improve Dell's lousy customer service and in-source it to US again.
    If you are selling PC's by mail-orders (sort of), you better have more than good customer service that customers can depend on.
    Even a premium corporate customer care at Dell su8ks big time.
    Apple's phenomenal customer support is the main reason iPod and iMac's still rock.
    If i call Apple and am under warranty, the dude am talking to knows the business and take me step-by-step to solve the problem. (am not even comparing store-based support, since Dell doesn't have many stores to sell from).

    If Michael Dell can bring customer support back to what it was long back, then am sure Dell will rock.
    Corporates love Dell because of its uniform ugly black boxen.

    My bank switched to HP after Dell's customer support was unresponsive for the last time....
    And also ditch the Dell DJ Music Player. Seriously.

    To plagarise Jobs: "Move on from MP3 players. The battle was won long back by Apple.".

    Get back to core business of assembling high-quality PCs and phenomenal customer service.

    Is that difficult Mr.Dell?

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    1. Re:Improve Customer Support by Speed+Pour · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The first priority of Michael Dell should be to improve Dell's lousy customer service and in-source it to US again. Yeah, he's one of the earlier adopters of outsourcing customer support. I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt he's going to reverse that particular decision.

      I worked for Dell briefly, an experience I'll be happy not to repeat. The entire company is very shareholder-centric. I really doubt we're going to see a terribly different Dell from what we saw about 5 years ago. They are still going to build dirt-cheap machines for the 'lowest common denominator' people and they are still going to operate with the previously mentioned 'scorched earth' policy towards their hardware suppliers.

      I'm pretty certain that Michael Dell is being brought back to keep the stockholders happy and to attempt to restore the image. Few people will remember that he made the company the way it is, and I feel that Kevin Rollins is taking the scapegoat role.

      Long gone are the days when Dell computers were the reliable ones that you spent a couple extra hundred on because they really were that good. This is the reason Dell bought Alienware, to try to regain the image of quality machines.

      Also, IMHO, I have to agree with another poster as well, most Dell-branded products were pretty horrible. Axim line was alright and the LCD's were pretty good, everything else (including the computers) was pretty poor. Again, just my feelings on 'em...
      --
      - Nobody would know what RTFA meant if it didn't need to be said all the time
    2. Re:Improve Customer Support by ulysees · · Score: 4, Informative

      Am I the only one who finds Dell support better than other vendors ?

      I've actually migrated large accounts from HP, IBM & Fujitsu to Dell because of the lack of support from those vendors.
      I know it is different for individual users but for large businesses all of my support is provided by native English speakers in the same country as me. On rare occasions you will get an engineer that is 'lacking' but most of the time it's someone who can understand what you are saying and will either identify the problem or book the service call if you've already done the technical troubleshooting.

      Am I the only customer with this experience ???

      --
      The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
    3. Re:Improve Customer Support by Dark_MadMax666 · · Score: 1

      No. I had positive experience with dell tech support most of the time for "gold" accounts (servers/storage). I also think their website is the best for buying stuff.

      I actually think the worst part is dell sales team ,half of them had southern accents, and most of them were absolutely brain dead and useless. So bad that I switched to buying server stuff from hp .

        Their hardware is also not very good (I had more failures with dells than with comparable HP) . But tech support was excellent ,I only called tech support for fairly complex and difficult issues - and to my surprise they were very competent.

    4. Re:Improve Customer Support by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 2, Informative

      > The first priority of Michael Dell should be to
      > improve Dell's lousy customer service

      Agreed! All my dealings with Dell this is the single point where I have always had negative dealings with Dell.

      > and in-source it to US again.

      That may not always make it better. The problem with Dells support isn't that it is in India. It is that for the home users we get a "call center" rather then a "technical support center". There is a huge difference. Call Centers hire the lowest common denominator thats skills require reading check boxes off a screen.

      Technical support on the other hand is different. You are dealing with a person who understands the issue you are explaining. They know to cut through the check boxes and work on the core area.

      > Corporates love Dell because of its uniform ugly black boxen.

      You haven't bought a dell in a while have you. :)

    5. Re:Improve Customer Support by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      If you get through the business/gold support then its fine. Its the call center stuff that is dire.

      For example my latest dealings with Dell support. Machine keeps crashing, after 2 weeks on their support website and MS site I done all the investigation to prove its a hardware issue. Their response is "reformat the machine". I tell them I have already done this and run the dell diagnostics and supplied them the info. Not good enough have to jump through the hoops again.

      So I do, and told motherboard is broken. Replaced that, still broken. Then its memory, they replace that, still broken, further parts replace include hard drive, processor fans and processor (in that order). Still not working. I even give all the stop codes to help them and they ignore what I have given them and just replace the same parts again.

      Three months of this when I ring up for the final time I am told "Reformat the machine". I gave up and threatened legal action. The response was I got a brand new machine at that point. Thing is they are supposed to swap the machine, instead they just give me a new machine and I'm left with a broken one taking up space. I have to go through all this song and dance again now for them to take back the broken machine.

      If their technical support was any halfway good the issue would of been resolved a lot sooner and worked out cheaper for Dell.

    6. Re:Improve Customer Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find Dell customer service to be pretty good. Dell Financial Services is another story. I order and get my hardware fine. I can get parts under warrantly replaced no questions asked but Dell Financials Services screws at least 1 thing up per purchase. It is my own fault. I keep using the 60 day same as cash payment option. As a small business owners it is hard to not use.

    7. Re:Improve Customer Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't agree more about being turned off by overseas support. I have decided not to buy another HP again because of their horrible support. I spent 5 extra minutes on the phone last week just trying to get the person in India to understand my problem. She continually called me by the wrong name, ignored what I said about the problem, ignored the solutions I had already implemented, and never put in the RMA that she promised.

      If I were a computer customer I wouldn't purchase from Dell or HP because of their horrid technical support. I know I won't be.

    8. Re:Improve Customer Support by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      The first priority of Michael Dell should be to improve Dell's lousy customer service and in-source it to US again. Dell may have already started this for some models. The first banner at the top of Dell's OptiPlex Desktops page now says: "BUILT HERE. SUPPORTED HERE. OptiPlex desktops include North American-based technical support." I don't know if any other lines have North American-based support for non-corporate customers.

      Corporates love Dell because of its uniform ugly black boxen. If you missed it, in November 2003 Dell moved their corporate support for OptiPlex and Latitude back to the USA from India after complaints.

      Apple's phenomenal customer support is the main reason iPod and iMac's still rock. I don't know if I'd call it "phenomenal," but I like knowing who provides North American-based support. Some other PC makers that have North American-based support: Gateway, Lenovo, MPC (formerly Micron PC), Velocity Micro, Falcon Northwest.
      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    9. Re:Improve Customer Support by meinders · · Score: 0

      Even a premium corporate customer care at Dell su8ks big time.
      I don't get it. I manage a small company's IT budget, ( 50 workstations, 12 servers ) and I NEVER have problems with Dell. I have an assigned account rep, and probably have never waited on hold for an RMA on warranty parts longer than 5 or 10 minutes! And this is all with only drawing the attention of a $30,000/year account. I guess I just can't understand what problems some people go though with Dell.
    10. Re:Improve Customer Support by Falladir · · Score: 1

      Why are you whining about their not taking the broken machine? Save the case for the next time you build your own, and chuck the rest in the dumpster at the next construction site you see. Save whatever else you want, too.

    11. Re:Improve Customer Support by timeOday · · Score: 1

      If Michael Dell can bring customer support back to what it was long back, then am sure Dell will rock.
      Yes, I wonder what his priorities are?

      I think it will be interesting to watch Dell going into the future, to see if the CEO is all that important. It's always hard to separate leadership qualities from the circumstances. Is Dell's current CEO part of the problem? I don't know. But HP has adopted many of Dell's successful tactics, and that is definately a problem (for Dell).

    12. Re:Improve Customer Support by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Having worked there in the past, I've seen issues like yours. The problem with any call center job is that we're not physically there to fix the machine, and of course there are tremendous variances in technical proficiency between agents. Sometimes you get a great tech who can pull divine answers out of thin air, like me :) sometimes you get a lousy tech who will talk your ear off for 2 hours over a blown power supply.

      The one thing that frustrated me the most at Dell, and I'm sure it's the same everywhere else, is that the on-site technicians are utterly useless, partly because they are subcontractors. Dell pays them some godly sum of cash, and they go and fuck things up even worse. They don't care, because they get paid more money to go back and fix it again. They are not qualified to troubleshoot, they're just certified screwdriver operators... which is pretty sad considering that most Dells require no tools to swap everything but the motherboard itself. They drop in the new part, maybe power it on to see if anything changed, and then run off. How hard would it be for a qualified tech to take 2 minutes to study the problem, worst case they could call Dell and have a tech-to-tech discussion instead of having the customer jump through more hoops. Now granted I never heard of the cases where everything goes smoothly, but many times the tech would show up late, or make an ass of himself (and the company), hell one time I heard of a tech showing up drunk and verbally abusing the customer. I can't know for sure, I wasn't there, but they're such idiots that I wouldn't put it past them.

      I really wish Dell's next-day service meant "next-day FIXED service", meaning that if and when they send a tech on-site, the guy doesn't leave until the machine is back up and running. The way they have it right now, they bring a part, swap it, and if it didn't fix, they have to call back in to tech support and get another part for the next day. Why don't they just show up with a complete change of parts... if they find out the power supply took out the board, they just go back to the car and pull out a board!

      There are loony cases where there is no obviously fix for the problem... You might swap every single piece of hardware, one by one, then reimage the OS, and the problem will persist. I've had it happen to me in person back when I was running my own repair shop, I call it "the voltage virus". Imagine a bug that infects anything that touches the motherboard, and the only way to purge it is to get a whole new machine and toss the old one in the garbage. I've only seen it happen with Intel machines so far. I remember a particularly nasty case where I had gotten so frustrated, I just took apart the whole system and tested each part individually in test rigs. By the end of the day, I had fried 4 test rigs and just gave the customer a new system.

      The price war is over. You can't make money selling cheap computers on a large scale, because you can't cheat the way the small guys do. So very many computer stores these days pull scams to make a profit, whether it's tax evasion, bankruptcy hopping or moving in the middle of the night. The term "cutthroat" would be an understatement. I didn't bother to play that game, for various reasons. People paid a premium at my store, but they were getting top-quality systems and my peerless level of service. To give you an example, take the typical $299 budget PC of a few years past, which was an AMD Sempron, all-in-one board, 256mb ram and 40gb hard drive. That same spec machine cost an extra 30% from my store, but it came with an Antec power supply, Asus board and a real ATI graphics card. It may have had the same Mhz, ram and disk space on paper, but somehow it ran faster and smoother than the other guy's. Far more importantly, it never crashed, and very rarely did a power supply go poof. Not everyone is willing to pay for it, a lot of chumps just want the cheapest hackjob that can burn DVDs.. those idiots can go to Wal-Mart, I don't want their business. Indeed, I was catering to a niche market of discerning computer users. Apple does the same. Maybe Dell should do it too. Market share don't mean squat if you're losing money.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    13. Re:Improve Customer Support by atamido · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty certain that Michael Dell is being brought back to keep the stockholders happy and to attempt to restore the image. Few people will remember that he made the company the way it is, and I feel that Kevin Rollins is taking the scapegoat role.

      Yeah, I think this about says it all:

      During Rollins' tenure, Dell was battered by a recall of 4.1 million potentially flammable notebook batteries made by Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news). and by disappointing earnings.

      How exactly does anyone plan for that? The entire industry had to recall Sony batteries, not something that anyone could have predicted. And it should be noted that Dell was about the first to announce a recall on the same explosive batteries that everyone was using. There was a reason Kevin Rollins was picked to lead Dell, he is an excellent business man. If he has a shortcoming, it's that he has ethics too.

      Still, I'm with you on the customer service thing. One of the reasons everyone used to buy Dells is that their computers were rated at least "Good" and their customer service was the best in the industry. Now if you've got anything other than a large corporate account you're going to be talking to someone in India that you can't understand, and that has no idea what's going on. "Why do you want me to hook this monitor to another computer if it has lines on it when it's not hooked to any computer?"

    14. Re:Improve Customer Support by ehiris · · Score: 1

      I have to disagree with you on the customer support. Actually the customer support at Dell has been great for me. At my company we used to have IBM support our desktops and they were terrible compared to Dell.

      Where I believe Dell has huge problems is that their servers are pretty lame and their strong-point which was initially the desktops/laptops market has been neglected.

      A few examples of why I believe this are things like cutting corners by using one year warranty hard drives in laptops they give out 3 year warranty for (everyone I know who has a laptop like mine had a hard drive failure within 2 years), and installing poorly tested batteries that blow up.

      The main reason though is that they effectively killed their cool image by doing very grown up (uncool) things which just pushed away their main customers. For example firing their spokesperson because he got caught with a small amount of pot, which is not even a criminal offense in most evolved places was an absolutely stupid decision.

      It used to be "Dude, you're getting a Dell" and now it is "Sir, you should get a Dell because you could save money, blah blah blah"

    15. Re:Improve Customer Support by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      Well the main reason is that the setup was a Swap. Which means they take the broken machine. If I keep the machine in anyway then they can effectively charge me for the new machine.

    16. Re:Improve Customer Support by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Frankly I've had the best luck with Gateway. I worked for Yuba College for a while and we had pretty much all gateways. Some of the hardware was crap (just one series mostly, ALL the optical drives eventually failed) but gateway is quite gracious about replacing your parts if you know what you're doing. You just tell them "I did some testing blah blah blah" and they send you new parts. Or at least, they sent 'em to me... :) Also their machines tend to be very easy to deal with. Even the all-in-one type systems are, although not a joy to work on, at least quite logical. You still have to take them halfway apart to swap an optical drive, but it's not a huge PITA to do so.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:Improve Customer Support by operagost · · Score: 1

      I actually think the worst part is dell sales team ,half of them had southern accents
      What a surprise-- they are based in Austin, after all.
      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    18. Re:Improve Customer Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dell's Gold support for servers/EMC (I won't go into the braindead guys in the rest of storage,) tends to be decent because the guys who work in it have either worked with the servers for ages, so they know them and their quirks (and Dell servers have a LOT of little quirks,) like the back of their hands - or they're IT guys themselves, often with quite a lot of experience, who are currently between jobs, or wanting to move to an area with a better cost of living (the Gold queues are located in Round Rock, TX and Oklahoma City, OK - but fairly cheap areas to live in.) Unfortunately, the latter factors also lead to a fairly high turn-over rate, because people come on expecting to move on elsewhere, and Dell's pay rates, while decent for tech support, also tend to be half or even less of what the people are used to making. A large number of the gold & platinum TAMS were ex-IT people as well (but not all of them for sure - a good number were completely untechnical people.)

      I don't really know what the future's going to look like for their Gold techs though -- I worked with them for awhile after I moved out here, before I was able to land something better and better paying - and the job was excellent, my coworkers knew their stuff for the most part. But in the short period before I decided it was -really- time to get out of there I noticed that all of the new hires were lackluster at best, complete mouth-breathers at worst. It was as if Dell had already gone through all of the qualified applicants in the area willing to take the job and were having to resort to scraping the bottom of the barrel.

      As for the southern sales people.. Ugh - if you're an enterprise customer, you're probably dealing with the sales people in Tennessee. They were completely and absolutely useless.

    19. Re:Improve Customer Support by ulysees · · Score: 1

      I will admit I've had more than one headache with the financial arm of the company. It's all clerical errors that are blamed on "computer problems" Aside from the increased administration involved they tend to work out more in my favour though as the credit terms don't kick in until they issue a correct invoice which means the money spends more time in my bank account :)
      Seriously though there is nothing that irks me more than some administrative drone blaming the problem on the computer. More often than not it's the human element that's failing. If it was a computer problem Dell are more than capable of fixing it.

      --
      The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
    20. Re:Improve Customer Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And their biggest call center is in Nashville.

      But if all it takes is a southern accent to stop him from buying stuff then he's an idiot.

    21. Re:Improve Customer Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll post this anonymously since i work for dell in india

      I can confirm that no server or premier support is being done from india... apparently the high end customers hate indians for whatever reasons. So around 2 years ago all of that support got moved to US after around 3 months in India.

      The story the grand parent was quoting happened either in those 3 months in 2004 or he/she is lying.

    22. Re:Improve Customer Support by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      You couldn't be more wrong. Before Rollins came to Dell we never heard the swords like "set the customer's expectations" or "we are no worse than anyone else." The first thing he did was to commission a study on how to improve ROIC. The consultants he used compared Dell to Gateway and found that Gateway spent far less money on tech support. If Dell imitated the Gateway tech support model they could greatly improve their bottom line. You know haw that turned out. The only thing Rollins brought to Dell was his contacts on Wall Street. Dell's Senior Staff became more bloated that a dead armadillo on Arboretum Drive in August. At one point Dell had more vice presidents than it had system engineers. I dare say many of the current VPs still don't know Dell has people in the field. The bureaucratic inertial became so great that even Michael could get anything done. The other important move Dell made is the resignation of Joe Marengi, the senior vice president of Sales. He is the only senior person at Dell that no account rep would dare bring to their customers. Every company this guy works for has tanked. He was also of the "make them pay for tech support" crowd. The conspiracy of dunces that have run Dell since Michael moved to Hawaii have done more to destroy a once fine company than any agency, competitor or supplier could dream of. Dell changed the personal computer industry like no one since. I hope he can re make the company again.

    23. Re:Improve Customer Support by klubar · · Score: 1

      Actually, recently I've had good experiences with Dell service. The calls are answered within 2 minutes by a native English speaker. They no longer torture you to reformat multiple times. The next-day service is almost always next day. Their model is that the call center diagnoses the problem and the repair guy just replaces the part. The repair guy should not have to do anything other than replace the part.

      We have signed up for Gold service, which is probably an extra $50.

      Recently I had an experience with one of our Apple PowerMacs. Failed hard drive--would not even reformat. After a long wait on hold, it took over over 2 hours to get them to agree that the drive was bad. That rep had a very minimal command of the English language, and was clearly not a native speaker. Although we have a next-day service contract the rep insisted that we carry the machine to an Apple store. No way, this is a business machine.

      When we pointed out the next day service the rep agreed to send a repair guy. Next problem was that "there are no spare parts available" (wtf, no disk drives?). It took over a week to get a spare to the repair guy. Hopefully, he will show up on schedule.

      Although Apple service has gone way down hill, Apple is still riding its positive reputation while Dell has improved dramatically it is still suffering from the negative reputation of a few years ago.

    24. Re:Improve Customer Support by homer_ca · · Score: 1

      So very many computer stores these days pull scams to make a profit
      You can add another scam, selling fake processors. Years ago, my mom bought a Pentium 120 from a mom and pop shop. When it was a few years old, I took it apart to upgrade some things. What a POS. Every part was the cheapest possible one you could imagine. I tried overclocking the CPU figuring I'd get at least 133, but it wouldn't go over 120. I pulled the "warranty void if removed" sticker off the bottom of the CPU and found it was a Pentium 100 that they overclocked and sold as a 120.
    25. Re:Improve Customer Support by Arctic+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Dell recently opened a 1200-employee call center in Ottawa. Hopefully more North American call centers will follow.

    26. Re:Improve Customer Support by dcam · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      I wanted to schedule a couple of drives being added to a server.
      a) They got me the wrong parts (which meant two visits from a tech)
      b) It took 2 months for the whole process

      --
      meh
    27. Re:Improve Customer Support by Dark_MadMax666 · · Score: 1

      No ,moron, as I stated above what stopped me using their sales team was their utter incompetence. NOT the southern accent, I brought southern accent in just to show that this part of their staff was not outsourced , and ironically it was not very good.

        I care not for southern accent -I have no prejudice (being immigrant myself I never judge people based on the accents) .What I do care is competence though ,and I would take more competent Indian/Canadian/whatever guy over "in-sourced" "made in USA" moron.

    28. Re:Improve Customer Support by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Given your complete inability to use the comma (,) or period (.) correctly in those sentences, prefering to use it in a manner most consistent with other Indians I have interacted with over the years, and given the trash-talking about jobs moved back to America - is it safe to assume that you are perhaps ... Indian?

      Ahhh - thought so.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    29. Re:Improve Customer Support by Coldeagle · · Score: 1

      I concur with your wise statements. I believe that dells hardware quality has also decreased. I purchased an XPS and have had to send it in for service 5 times. The last time was to replace the MB, and a week later the replacement MB died also! Even their sales have gone to hell. I actually got called by someone to confirm an order that couldn't speak clear English. And folks, I work with people in India, Manila, and Argentina every day. I can understand them. I have heard two year olds speak better on the telephone than this guy could. I spent over two hours trying to get a PC ordered on my sisters "Dell Preferred" account and shipped to me so I could whip it and install fresh as Dell has become almost as bad as HP with installing useless crap on their systems. Long story short, I said screw it and ordered from HP.

      Mr. Dell, you've got your work cut out for you as I'm not the only person out there that has had these issues with Dell. I don't believe the 80/20 rule applies to my customer experiences either. As many of us with Corporate accounts can attest to, the rate of component failure has increased to a phenomenal rate compared to the failure rate as recent as three years ago.

    30. Re:Improve Customer Support by mink · · Score: 1

      Saturn Computers in Columbus, OH?

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
    31. Re:Improve Customer Support by homer_ca · · Score: 1

      No. Don't want to name names, but they're probably out of business by now. It sounds a common scam in the Pentium era.

    32. Re:Improve Customer Support by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Indeed that happened all too often. They were so pricey back then too, so it was ridiculously profitable for scammers, and hardly anyone knew about overclocking back then. People blindly believed whatever the BIOS reported.

      I've seen far more elaborate schemes where the BIOS reported completely bogus information. A few years ago when the old Athlon XP was hot stuff, there was one guy in the area who had hex-edited the BIOS to show an Athlon XP 2500, but the CPU was really a Duron 1200. A really clever scam, the best part being that if the customer flashed their BIOS, they'd bring the system back to the shop complaining that it wasn't detecting the CPU properly... something the crook was all too happy to "fix". If they complained about poor performance, he'd sell them memory and video upgrades and stealthily overclock the CPU. The story goes that one eventful day, a customer found out about his ruse and showed up at the store with a few leather-clad friends to help redecorate. He closed down the business and was never heard of again.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  7. less proprietization, please... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    While this may be one sided of me, I find the proprietization that Dell has dealt with is annoying not just to me, but to many independent computer repair people when things break (and especially when computers with recently-expired warranties break, ohhh lawrdy!)

    While yes, proprietary hardware is a shrewd business tactic, and it brings in more revenue stream, it is quite contrary to the hardware industry standard. It is one of the sole reasons I stay clear from dell hardware, and I am probably not the only techie to do so because of proprietization of the hardware.

    1. Re:less proprietization, please... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1

      it is the solereason I steer clear of dell hardware if I can help it.

    2. Re:less proprietization, please... by islanduniverse · · Score: 1

      What? I've replaced the power supply, installed an additional hard drive, DVD+/-RW drive, and a graphics card and TV card in my Dell PC. Oh, and upgraded the memory twice.

      My sister now has my "Proprietary" PSU in her computer I made from pretty standard parts.

    3. Re:less proprietization, please... by nevesis · · Score: 1

      Dell does use proprietary parts more so than the other OEMs -- the cooling system particularly bothers me. (proprietary fan and a duct over the heatsink). Also, some models won't accept a PSU unless the power cable connector is in the same spot, or you dremel the case. Finally, the case connectors for the power button and LEDs match the boards -- so you can't swap in a new board.

      On the other hand, Dell uses Intel brand boards in their machines, which are generally considered the most reliable boards. With a HP or Compaq or Sony -- you have no idea what you'll get.. it might be Intel or ASUS or MSI or some Canadian company you've never heard of (I forget their name).

      Another plus is that all Dell machines have a built in diagnostic tool which can be accessed at boot, making it considerably easier for you to direct John Doe into memtesting over the phone.

      After weighing the advantages and disadvantages, I suggest Dell over the other big OEMs, but never before a trusted local shop.

    4. Re:less proprietization, please... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      My sister now has my "Proprietary" PSU in her computer I made from pretty standard parts.

      His information was dated. Dell used to reverse the polarity on their power supplies (IIRC) so that a COTS one wouldn't work and it would damage other boards if you tried your trick. I remember a friend just re-connecting the wires on a standard PSU to get a Dell back to life.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:less proprietization, please... by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Having worked there, I really don't see what you're talking about. Most Dell parts are perfectly normal, a lot of the custom stuff involves mounting brackets for screwless access. The one thing I agree is a pain, is their power supplies. Any tech knows they're the part that most often dies on any PC, so it's a drag that Dell PSUs are usually non-standard. For anything else though, CPU, hard drive, ram.. you can use 3rd party replacements just fine.

      Worst case, if the machine's out of warranty, you can rip out the guts and put them in a new ATX chassis, they will fit just fine. Hell I've got an old Precision workstation here, I plopped its naughty bits into an Antec chassis and the 7 year old clunker is happy as a clam, not to mention whisper-quiet :)

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    6. Re:less proprietization, please... by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Which part is proprietary?
      They are even using regular power-supplies now, bringing them into standardization on every part I know of inside the machine.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the direction they have gone at a corporate / sales level, but proprietary parts hasn't been an issue on machines I buy from Dell in a few years now.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  8. Reboot ? by Rastignac · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now, Michael Dell is the "Dell main director" guy. Kevin Rollins was just a temporary alternative. So, Kevin Rollins was the "Dell alt control" guy. Alt+control+del=reboot. So he is gone now. ;)

    --
    -- Rastignac was here.
  9. Dell's problem by should_be_linear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is little of R&D and added value in Dell products. After all, building a PCs and pre-installing HDD with useless crap is not rocket science. I don't see much oportunities for Dell in the future, unless they invent completely new product-area compatible with internet-world we all live in already. They are basically in the same position as pre-iPod Apple. My take: SELL.

    --
    839*929
    1. Re:Dell's problem by Nasarius · · Score: 1

      They are basically in the same position as pre-iPod Apple.
      That's a strange comparison. Apple produces a ton of quality, unique software. They aren't interchangeable with hundreds of other PC builders like Dell is.
      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    2. Re:Dell's problem by AlXtreme · · Score: 1

      There is little of R&D and added value in Dell products. After all, building a PCs and pre-installing HDD with useless crap is not rocket science.
      But Dell isn't after rocket science, its goal isn't to do R&D. Just like Walmart isn't going to offer top-cuisine, Dell isn't going to improve the computer. What made Dell big is selling computers dirt-cheap via the internet. Many people simply don't even look around to find a better deal, if they need a PC they go to Dell.

      My take is that the bloatware that is Vista will boost Dell's sales considerably. Lots of people simply buy a new PC instead of upgrading their old one, as much as I find that a waste of cash and a perfectly good PC.

      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
  10. One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ok, ignoring umpteen dozen levels of complexity, I'd like to focus on one particular thing that Dell could do to stop losing customers at an epic rate.

    For the love of god, stop loading up PCs with useless bloatware.

    I've actually been buying Dells for a couple of yeaes now. My laptop and my last two desktops have both come from them. Since my student days ended and I got a job, I've found myself relatively cash rich but time poor. As a result of this, I've lost the patience I used to have for building my own PCs and ironing out the kinks and have come to appreciate the option of paying a little more to have somebody do it for me, while still being able to pick which components I want. I take it for granted that when I buy a new PC from Dell, it will, out of box, be slow, unstable and full of 30 day trials for software that only a gibbering moron could ever want to use. I therefore backup the drivers folder, format the hard disk and reinstall XP (I find that the amount of crap Dell are bundling is growing so fast that even the decrappifier doesn't cut it any more).

    However, this is not the experience that a lot of people are looking for when they buy a new PC and many people don't have a clue how to go about reinstalling an operating system. All they know is that their new Dell PC, which they've probably paid slightly over the going rate for, is slow as hell, to the point of being painful to use. The further from the cutting edge the system you buy, the worse the problem seems to be, as Dell give no thought to performance in deciding which particular crap to inflict - they just pile it all on.

    Case in point - my parents bought a new laptop last year, to keep in a villa they own. It's only going to be used for 6-10 weeks each year, for web-browsing and a few basic office-type apps. Therefore, they picked up one of the bargain-basement Inspirons. A few days later, I get a call asking for help with it. This laptop (a Centrino 1.4, if I remember, with 512 RAM) was taking *6 minutes* to start up completely from the moment you hit the power switch. Fortunately, I was able to talk them through reinstalling XP over the phone, at which point the startup time came down to about 90 seconds.
    Not everybody is going to have access to somebody who can talk them through this. In most cases, people are just going to make a note never to buy another Dell again. I fail to see how the small premium that Dell gets paid for crippling its systems like this can even vaguely resemble a valid long-term strategy.

    1. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by the_womble · · Score: 4, Informative

      1) Dells gets paid for placing the bloatware: it keeps the price down and boosts their margins.
      2) Lots of people ARE gibbering idiots.
      3) Many people have low expectations of PCs
      4) They are quite likely to blame software problems on MS anyway.
      5) Corporate buyers will do a clean re-install anyway.
      6) Home users will probably have the machine just as bloated with malware in a week anyway. The is the reason for 3 above.

    2. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by SirMeliot · · Score: 1
      I therefore backup the drivers folder, format the hard disk and reinstall XP

      I wish I had your foresight. On the last Dell I had I just ran the thing to make a recovery CD, wiped the disk and reinstalled. Only to discover the recovery CD didn't have drivers for anything. Not even the network card worked. That made downloading new drivers fun.

      Thanks Dell.

      On the flip side apart from the MS Office trial, the iMac I have now came loaded with actual useful stuff. Why can't Dell do that?

    3. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by jonwil · · Score: 1

      What I want to know is why Microsoft (who ends up being blamed when crapware pre-installed by Dell or HP or Compaq or whoever makes the system run like a dog) isn't putting more pressure on OEM's not to install this crap.

      If Microsoft told the big OEM's that they had to stop installing this crap or risk being charged more for windows (or whatever penalty Microsoft uses with them when they do something MS doesn't like), the OEM's would have no choice but to comply. Microsoft would win because they don't get the flak for the system slowdowns and whatever else the pre-installed crap causes. Maybe the OEM's might need to charge more for the PCs since they aren't "subsidized" by the crapware anymore but everyone will be forced to do it so it wont matter.

    4. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by benzapp · · Score: 1

      Vista seriously controls this stuff - there is an entire application that blocks/regulates startup programs automagically.

      This is one of the many problems that Vista rectifies.

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    5. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I take your point here, I'm not really sure that it's quite this simple. Most people *do* have a point of comparison for PC performance.

      The majority of people with jobs these days will use computers regularly as part of their job, even if they're not in a technical profession. Most office PCs tend, as you say, to be scrubbed clean of this sort of garbage. If somebody's office PC boots up quickly and cleanly (as mine does), while their new, shiny Dell machine spends more than 5 minutes chugging away as it loads "Spysoft Adstravaganza 30 day trial" on startup, even a relatively ignorant user will quickly notice that something smells fishy.

      Moreover, you shouldn't underestimate the extent to which people identify their PC with the brand name on the box. I've lost count of the number of times at work I've heard a colleague say "I've just bought a new Acer/Packard Bell/Dell/Advent/Warning: Fragile". Indeed, I have specifically head Dells mentioned as being "slow" in this context.

      As for getting paid to install this stuff - I'm sure they do. However, as I said in my original post, I don't see how this can actually work out as a sensible business decision. Basically, it's a slightly enlarged margin now, in exhange for a lot of lost customers later.

    6. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Foresight doesn't always help out, sadly. My most recent Dell desktop was a reasonably spiffy high-end Dimension. Not an XPS, but not actually far short of one in terms of the specs - Core 2 Duo 2.66, Geforce 7950 etc.

      On going through my usual routine on this PC, I hit a bit of a snag on reinstalling. The sound-card drivers that had been included in the c:\drivers folder were actually for the wrong card.

      To my great shame, it took me the better part of 30 minutes to realise this, then a further 30 minutes to find the correct drivers on Dell's website. Not a pleasant experience when you've just unpacked your expensive new toy, where you've deliberately paid a premium to avoid just this sort of faff.

    7. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      1) Dells gets paid for placing the bloatware: it keeps the price down and boosts their margins.
      2) Lots of people ARE gibbering idiots.
      3) Many people have low expectations of PCs
      4) They are quite likely to blame software problems on MS anyway.
      5) Corporate buyers will do a clean re-install anyway.
      6) Home users will probably have the machine just as bloated with malware in a week anyway. The is the reason for 3 above.


      All of this is true*. Its sad that there apparently is no profit in a mass produced consumer level PC, and this stems from #3. People still expect computers just to suck because they have for such a long time.

      I'm typing this on a Dell, but it is running Linux from a custom standard install by my work. Its a fine computer as far as a Linux machine can be. Personally, I would prefer to have a Mac. I would be more productive, and I just prefer a Mac, but that is a different story.

      I attribute the #3 thing to someone who is in an abusive relationship. They know it sucks, they complain about it all the time, but they won't/can't do anything about it because that is all they know.

      The thing is that the simple, working days of consumer level products seems to be over. The guys at the top are too worried about staying up there. The customer is always right mantra is a thing of the past. To get quality, you have to get a niche product, and pay a little more for it, and your compatability with the majority of the world is out the window.

      * I question #4. From the way I understand it, most people are unable to differentiate between software and hardware, its just a computer, and when they have computer problems, they blame the name on the box, not MS. There simply are not many computer makers today. Gateway is dead. HP has gone psychotic. IBM doesn't really sell consumer level products anymore. Compaq == HP. Sony is, well, Sony. Emachines (yuck) was bought by somebody. Basically, its kind of Dell or Apple, and an Apple is simply not an option for many people because it is percieved as being incompatable or different.

    8. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Microsoft told the big OEM's that they had to stop installing this crap...
      People would whine and complain about monopoly abuse and such.

    9. Re:One change in direction that wouldn't go amiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy: don't buy from the home division. Buy from one of the business divisions.

  11. darn amiga.... by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    its like a long lost love when you were 13yo

    Great at that age, but illegal today!

    Seriously, amiga was great, and all us amiga geeks should have stoned Prudential to death because its that Ali
    guy who killed it.

    Maybe microsoft/apple paid millions to kill it. The strong survive, even if the strong are dumb and kill the best.

    But 2007, and todays video cards etc... are a trillion times better.

    What the amiga guys failed at is not open sourcing the OS back when linux took off, in 1995. People did ask for it.
    It was obvious, they just had to pretend they had value.

    The true value is in building a market, a WORLD, not the actual world.

    The only future amiga has is the embedded world, it can do magic in low ram/cpu speeds which today are 10-100x the speed of 1992 Amigas.

    On a past view moment thought.... the amiga hardware was basic, in terms of features and transistors, but it did just enough trickery
    to achieve enough magic. It could have been easily copied and enhanced.... i mean seriously is a D2A convert with DMA that hard to make in 1989 ? 2000 gates at most.
    Its just that most combos of hardware/software dudes didnt see the benefits.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    1. Re:darn amiga.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Although you may feel a strong urge to do so, it really is not necessary to launch into a long, rambling post about "How Great The Amiga Was(TM)" every time you see someone mention the words "Amiga" or "Commodore" in a Slashdot post. Instead, why not try reading the comment and forming a reply based on the context of the original post? I guess that may require some thought, but I'm sure you can manage if you try hard enough.

  12. You mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kevin Rollin's employment was Dell-eeted.

    sorry, had to do that.

  13. Im making a company called BACK SPACE by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    It will be worth billions.

    If it fails Ill make one called ESC - the cool gaming center

    and then F10 - the place for strippers

    and then SPACE BAR - the place to get drunk at

    and then ALT KEY - the gay night club

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  14. Too cheap by GreatDrok · · Score: 1

    The problem with Dell is that they have a reputation for the cheapest machines around. Yes, they have the XPS line and Alienware but those are not where the volume is. Most of their traffic is in the cheap end of the scale where they make pretty much no money and people are always trying to game the system to get even cheaper kit. This is not sustainable. They need to up the price on their lowest cost systems and improve the quality as well as reduce the number of options.

    Oh, and stop putting stupid blue LEDs in everything, they are tacky and annoying (looking at the horrid XPS 17" laptop on another table that is just a horrible fright).

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    1. Re:Too cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Completely wrong. Dell's largest customer base is enterprises and government. The consumer buying is a much smaller percentage of all Dell's sales.

    2. Re:Too cheap by PinkPanther · · Score: 1

      he problem with Dell is that they have a reputation for the cheapest machines around [...] Most of their traffic is in the cheap end of the scale ... I disagree that the above is their problem. The vast majority of their profit comes from corporate sales: most business machines do not need a hell of a lot of horse-power just to run MS-Outlook, IE and MS-Word the business machines that do need power sell for a heftier price (look at Dell server lines)

      They need to up the price on their lowest cost systems and improve the quality as well as reduce the number of options.
      Actually, it is precisely the options that increase their profitability. They rope you into a system with a sweet price, then you decide you need an extra Gig of RAM, a bigger drive, hey for only $50 I get a faster CPU, and while I'm at it I'll pick up a USB memory stick. Oh, and look, I can get three years support for only $100 more.

      Oh, and stop putting stupid blue LEDs in everything,
      This is likely their biggest problem. Blue is sooooo 2003. Yep, the company is going down the drain...too bad they don't have enough resources to overcome the downturn in their revenue stream to overcome this horrendous technical glitch across their entire product line...

      :-)

      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
    3. Re:Too cheap by dave420 · · Score: 1

      I got my wife one of those XPS 17" notebooks. The first thing I did was turn off all those ridiculous LEDs. They're great notebooks - they have better screens than the 17" apple notebooks, faster hard disks, and better graphics cards too.

  15. The register analysis by SnowWolf2003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The register has an interesting analysis on what this actually means. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/dell_brain _one/

    In summary, nothing, as Michael Dell has been actively involved in all decisions anyway, and is at least equally responsible for Dell's downfall.

    1. Re:The register analysis by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      In summary, nothing, as Michael Dell has been actively involved in all decisions anyway, and is at least equally responsible for Dell's downfall.

      But investors won't read the Reg article and will likely stop selling for a while because they think Dell is going to do a turn-around. And that has real value - after all, it's a public company - they're in the business of stock price as much as computers.

      I think the real problem is computers are about as cheap as they can be without redefining what goes into a computer, and Dell's been selling to the low end at about the same price for a few years. The business model has always been ever-cheaper computers, so when that stops there's a problem.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  16. Inaccurate by nevesis · · Score: 3, Informative

    Interesting post.. but it seems inaccurate to me.

    For example, Dell has been using motherboards manufactured under the Intel brand name by Foxconn since as far back as I can remember. They've been using Lite-On optical drives, and various power supplies -- often HiPro. All of these companies are still in business and doing quite well (better than Dell even).

    I do think that Dell shot themselves in the foot, however in an entirely different matter. Dell started the PC price wars. The competition followed their aggressive pricing, and now the budget PC market (which Dell had cornered) is littered with companies barely surviving on razor thin margins.

    Dell attempted to correct themselves: they purchased Alienware, they have put more focus on their higher end models, but frankly, I don't think they'll ever recover unless they re-brand themselves much as Apple has.

    1. Re:Inaccurate by djupedal · · Score: 1

      All of these companies are still in business and doing quite well (better than Dell even)

      Today, sure - but that doesn't mean there wasn't blood on the saddle 5 or 6 years ago. Today's Foxconn/Lite-On isn't yesterday's, by no means. Been there...seen, tasted, smelled and worked that.

      And for every tier 1, hardened survivor, there are dozens of tier 2 & 3 corpses (the true little guys that can't be seen in FoxConn or Samsung's shadow). It's just not as simple as it appears in a rear-view mirror :) Now, Dell gets to change...or die.

  17. will this prompt a swing away from linux? by mokeyboy · · Score: 1

    There seem to be a lot of comments against Dell. I contrast this with my experience buying from them. They aim to serve/please and you know the products will "just work" with Linux distros. I compare this with other shops like ASUS which are completely Microsoft dominated (server/laptop/desktop). Will Dell retreat from its so far accepting stance towards Linux in favor of the market dominant OS? I hope not but history might suggest a "sounder" business position.

  18. Dell's key to success by fang2415 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Michael Dell is jumping back into the big chair at Dell

    Well, Michael's key to success is going to be be to distance himself from Microsoft as much as possible. You know how Ballmer is with chairs.

  19. Theme song? by asjk · · Score: 1
    The Michael is the Dell,

    The Michael is the Dell,

    Hi-ho, the derry-o,

    The Michael is the Dell.

  20. Wish Dell or someone would go where HP used to be by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just once I wish some large manufacturer somewhere would adopt the stance that HP used to have, back when Hewlett and Packard were running the show. Back before Queen Bitch of the Universe took over:

    Uncompromising quality.

    Damn near everything they did was done right, and when it wasn't, they went to great lengths to fix it.

    Quality costs money, but you know what? I buy for the long term. I'd rather pay 2-3x up front for something that'll last a lifetime. I'll do that even for equipment that might be obsolete in 5 years because at least I'll know that it simply won't fail in those 5 years because it's built right.

    Computers are harder to do that way, of course, because of the rapid pace of technological advancement, but a good design could make replacement of those bits easy while allowing you to retain the rest. Things like keyboards, mice, cases, power supplies, etc. can be built solid and built to last a very long time because the technology behind them doesn't really change much. As an example, I'm sure many of us here still make use of old IBM buckling-spring keyboards, the kind that are 15+ years old and work as well now as they did when they were new. That's the kind of quality I'm talking about.

    And yet, you basically can't find anyone who builds things that well anymore. It's not "profitable" or some such crap. But I say that's bullshit. HP managed to get away with it until its founders let go of the reins. They had their up times and down times during the reign of their founders, but their customers were loyal because HP could be relied upon to do it right.

    Maybe I'm just looking at things through rose colored glasses, but I still have my HP 41CX and 11C calculators as proof that the equipment they built really was built to last. But who builds things that way these days? Nobody I know of. Not even HP.

    That's something that I think needs to change. I just wish someone would step up to the plate...

    --
    Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  21. Distorted Visions by Jekler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think one of the reasons Dell has been slipping (and I believe it has a lot to do with many corporate failures) is that the executives forget what made the company successful in the first place. The company has become so wrapped up in acquisitions, promotions, and partnerships that they forgot all about building computers. They no longer ask themselves "Which components would make this PC powerful and affordable?" Instead they ask "Which components can we build a computer from, using only our partners' components, that will not compete with any of our other divisions, and is consistent with this month's slogan?" It's a lot like Microsoft. At a certain point they got so wrapped up in their ISP (MSN), web sites, content portals, partnerships, search engines, the whole idea of building an actual Operating System was completely beyond them. For all the jokes people made about Windows back with Win 3.1 and Windows 95, all of it would have been forgotten if they had kept their eye on the prize. Instead, they get distracted by every trend, buzzword, and internet start-up that happens by. Dell has the money, reputation, and manpower to build great computers. Unfortunately they lack the all-consuming vision that makes a company succeed to start with.

    1. Re:Distorted Visions by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      Amen

  22. Re:Wish Dell or someone would go where HP used to by digitalhermit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Quality costs money, but you know what? I buy for the long term. I'd rather pay 2-3x up front for something that'll last a lifetime. I'll do that even for equipment that might be obsolete in 5 years because at least I'll know that it simply won't fail in those 5 years because it's built right.

    I understand the sentiment, but I won't pay much more at this point. I turn over laptops every 18-24 months, and *for my needs* it's just not worth putting too much extra in for a better built unit. Others will of course have different needs. There are things that I miss on the cheaper units (built in keyboard light, touchpad and button mouse, decent speakers) but if the unit is $500 I'll live without.

  23. Samsung / Dell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Samsung, on the other hand, needs to tread lightly - perhaps it can afford to participate at 90/10 for a short time, hoping that Dell will eventually back off and both sides can move towards a profit balance,"

    Except Samsung makes the monitors and Dell only buys them and resells. So today Samsung makes $10 and Dell makes $50.
    Tomorrow Samsung makes $10 and someone else makes $40.
    The day after Samsung makes $10 and someone else makes $20.

    Dell adds little value to the product, and that value is easily replaced. Leading to plenty of competition, and driving down the price. Dell only lead the market because they sold direct and so were able to stay a little ahead of the competition.... well at least till the competition does the same thing.

    1. Re:Samsung / Dell by djupedal · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "Except Samsung makes the monitors and Dell only buys them and resells."

      You really think Dell or Samsung or Wal Mart sells anything just to turn a profit...? 'make/buy/sell' is the least of what's happening.

      I'm guessing that outside of pedaling sticky Polaroids of your sister back in high school, you've never actually been in business, right? :)

  24. Just Reformat the C: Drive by aquatone282 · · Score: 2, Funny

    . . . and reinstall Windows.

    Everyone knows that fixes ANYTHING that's wrong with a Dell - just ask their customer support team!

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Just Reformat the C: Drive by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      easy way to permanently fix a computer

      1 crack the case open (set the panel aside)
      2 in a large bag combine 2 pounds of ferric oxide and six pounds of aluminum power (shake well but carefully)
      3 take the computer case (with panel) the bag, a sparkler and a lighter (bonus points if you have a high power laser) outside to a dirt area about eight meters in diameter
      4 stack the panel , the computer case , the contents of the bag and the sparkler in that order
      5 light sparkler
      6 FLEE!! RUN (note if you have a friken laser hit the sparkler from about 4 feet away)

      when the smoke clears the computer will never have any problems (since it will now be a nifty sculpture)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  25. ITs not their pcs its their support by majortom1981 · · Score: 1

    ITs not dells hardware and pcs that is the problem. Dells problem is their support and customer service. No offence to people from india. But dells support in india stinks.

    Also dell screwed up their sales department for businesses and government. It took a month to get a uqote for one pc.

    Dell needs to work on their customer support and sales. Thats what is costing them sales.

  26. It's replaceability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Walmart has stores and stock, and to replace those stores and stock would cost tens of billions of $$.

    In the example, Samsung makes the monitors and Dell resells them. Since Dell's advantage is selling direct through a website, something that's easily replaceable, over time competitors simply copy Dells direct sales technique and Dell is easily replaced, because it doesn't actually make the monitors it only sells them.

    Speaking as someone who imports a product and sells it on the net, I'm acutely aware how delicate the value of my websites name and reputation is. Dell have no solid advantage, there are many competitors that can buy in the same volume and achieve the same discounts as Dell, and many many competitors that can mimic the direct to customer sales channel of Dell. The software too, they're beholden to Microsoft for. So they have little advantage that can't be copied easily.

    1. Re:It's replaceability by eln · · Score: 1

      Dell's advantage is not and never has been a website. Dell has mastered the art of supply chain management, which is why they are able to offer what they do at the prices they do. Sure, someone else can set up a website and sell computers (many already have), but it's not as easy to knock Dell from its perch as you seem to think it is.

      People assume that the reason Dell and Wal Mart can offer such deep discounts is because they buy in such large volumes. While that is part of the reason, it doesn't explain all of it. After all, there are other large-volume sellers that can't compete with these companies on price. The difference is that both of these companies have invested an enormous amount of effort in making their supply chain as efficient as possible. That sort of thing is not easily duplicated.

    2. Re:It's replaceability by alienw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Effective supply chain management" is a bullshit buzzword used by consulting companies. If your logistics costs dominate your expenses, it makes sense to minimize them, but there is only so much you can gain. Anyone can have a good supply chain. Far from anyone can obtain Dell's volumes.

      Without the volume, you have zero leverage on your supplier. Think about it. If Supplier A sells 70% of their product to Dell, Dell will have 100% of the leverage and the others will have nothing. No company would ever say no to a customer responsible for 70% of their income. Dell can basically dictate prices and schedules. The same model is used by Wal-mart. Focusing on supply chain issues is myopic at best.

  27. Re:Wish Dell or someone would go where HP used to by kcbrown · · Score: 1

    I understand the sentiment, but I won't pay much more at this point. I turn over laptops every 18-24 months, and *for my needs* it's just not worth putting too much extra in for a better built unit. Others will of course have different needs. There are things that I miss on the cheaper units (built in keyboard light, touchpad and button mouse, decent speakers) but if the unit is $500 I'll live without.

    But do you turn over laptops every 18-24 months because they don't last much longer than that, or for some other reason?

    Suppose your laptop were built like and tank (but didn't weigh as much as a tank, of course) and upgradeable so that you could keep up with technology, and each upgrade cost you about $400 (on average), but the initial expense was $2000 instead of $500, with all of that extra money going into the build quality. Would you go for that?

    Think hard about that. The extra expense would get you a unit with a really solid keyboard (not the crap keyboards they have today), a rugged chassis, and a touchpad/stick that would never fail. It would also allow you to keep using your software without requiring a reinstall every 12-18 months. You'd be able to upgrade the OS on your schedule. That might be every 12-18 months, but it wouldn't have to be. It'd take you 20 years to break even financially, but during that entire period of time you'd have a machine that was much better built than the one you're using now.

    Would that be worth it? In my opinion, it would be, in the long run. But that's how I tend to think about things: long term.

    That said, laptops are probably the hardest computing devices to use this strategy on, because of the extra requirements of portability and miniaturization.

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  28. Dell Hell by chromozone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I bought my first Dell product in November and I could see Dell had some real problems. I bought a well reviewed and highly regarded 2007WFP monitor for $400. After buying it I read that Dell is using a "panel lottery" and they swapped out the Philips S-IPS panel for a Samsung S-PVA that is quite inferior. Many people were upset by this because the swap really made it a different monitor since S-IPS and S-PVA have different characteristics and many photographers and graphics pros seek out the S-IPS. Dell's began to hide the panel info and told people complaining in its forums that as far as Dell was concerned "a 2007WFP was a 2007WFP".

    I finally sent my monitor back to Dell but arranging that return was nightmare. From one service rep to another they lose track of issues. Mailing labels to be sent never were; emails they were to send me were never sent; credits due were never sent. I have 2 notebook pages of case numbers just for a monitor purchase and return. It's been six weeks and still I have not been sent a credit even though reps I call say it has. I can't get anyone to follow through on the simplest task.

    I don't think Dell is a bad company but its obvioulsy a real mess over there.

    1. Re:Dell Hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > credits due were never sent

      I know that feeling! We sent 24 monitors back in Feb 2005 after Dell sent the wrong model. They were LCD touchscreens so they were very expensive. After nearly two years of fighting them, we've only been returned half of our money. It took us until Dec 2006 to get an RMA number. There is no excuse for them taking 21 months to provide an RMA # that we asked for the day we received the wrong monitors. There is also no excuse for not refunding all of our money nearly two years later.

      Dell blames a third party named Trillium in Lousiville, KY for the dishonesty. How could some third party I've never heard of be responsible?

  29. That's how Dell lost me by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    While yes, proprietary hardware is a shrewd business tactic, and it brings in more revenue stream, it is quite contrary to the hardware industry standard. It is one of the sole reasons I stay clear from dell hardware, and I am probably not the only techie to do so because of proprietization of the hardware.

    Yep. I battled with a Dell PE2650 with a PERC 3Di controller which never really worked under Linux 2.6 (it couldn't keep up with the faster I/O without going offline). Trying to retrofit another SCSI controller into it was a lost battle. Dell and others on the support list suggested buying a new Dell with the "well, they don't suck anymore" logic.

    I got a machine from ServersDirect with an Intel server mobo, a 3Ware SATA II NCQ controller, and just regular standard wires and connectors connecting everything with a 3-year onsite warranty for less than the Dell. It rocks.

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  30. I doubt it. by babbling · · Score: 1

    If anything, I think this might be a good thing for Linux on Dell computers. Michael Dell has previously gone on record as saying:
    "We love Linux, and we're doing our best to support the Linux community. We see lots of opportunity there. If the Linux desktops could converge at their cores, such a common platform would make it easier to support. Or, if there was a leading or highly preferred version that a majority of users would want, we'd preload it."

  31. Re:Wish Dell or someone would go where HP used to by sholden · · Score: 1

    Except of course technology changes too fast. Do you really want to to be using a 1987 form factor laptop (with 2007 components) now? Something like: the Spark near the bottom of: http://www.cgu.edu/pages/2608.asp

    My laptop upgrades tend to get smaller and smaller, it'd be hard to swap out components and end up with something physically smaller without completely replacing the machine anyway.

  32. Things DELL should change by jonwil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1.Don't assume all customers are idiots, especially when they call for support.

    2.Hire technical support people that know something about computers. And let them have the power to do real technical support instead of insisting that they follow the checklists.

    3.Don't use proprietary hardware. More specifically, all components inside the machines should be standard as much as possible (for example, use standard PSUs with standard pinouts and not proprietary ones with custom DELL pinouts). Would make it easier for DELL to just switch suppliers if they e.g. decided that brand x power supplies sucked and brand y were better. This gives DELL negotiation power over suppliers (whereas if they had a custom PSU, the company that makes them has more leverage since the costs to have another company continue to make the custom PSU are expensive relatively speaking)

    4.This also extends to software. Do not use any proprietary drivers. All hardware should use the same drivers as you would use if you bought the hardware in a box from a retail store. All drivers should have separate installers included directly with the machine and/or be available to download from the web site such that it is possible to install a normal non DELL non OEM copy of Windows on the DELL machine and not have hardware that wont work right because the only way to get the drivers is to install the special DELL version of windows.

    5.Tone down the crap that is pre-installed. All spyware should be removed completely. All demos and time limited software should have uninstall options and also any limitations in the software (such as anti-virus programs with shorter subscription lengths than retail boxed copies have) should be clearly documented.

    1. Re:Things DELL should change by Arctic+Dragon · · Score: 1

      "Don't assume all customers are idiots, especially when they call for support"
      Every helpdesk I had the mispleasure of calling is guilty of that. "Don't use proprietary hardware"
      The PSU is my brother's Dimension 4600 desktop (purchased in late 2003) failed and we replaced it with an off-the-shelf 450-watt unit. Works fine. "Tone down the crap that is pre-installed"
      Amen to that. The Dimensions I mentioned above had so much crap preinstalled, it certainly didn't feel like it was powered by a Pentium4. It's easier to format and start with a fresh re-install instead of trying to uninstall all the garbage.

    2. Re:Things DELL should change by owlstead · · Score: 1

      "1.Don't assume all customers are idiots, especially when they call for support."

      The ones that sound promising over the phone normally are your worst nightmare. They tend to do too much their own way, and since 90% of all problems are in the top 10 of problems already known and solved, you want the customer to do *exactly* what you want.

      "2.Hire technical support people that know something about computers. And let them have the power to do real technical support instead of insisting that they follow the checklists."

      See above. For the other part, you need one or two nerds in each team that can solve the hairy problems.

      "3.Don't use proprietary hardware. More specifically, all components inside the machines should be standard as much as possible (for example, use standard PSUs with standard pinouts and not proprietary ones with custom DELL pinouts). Would make it easier for DELL to just switch suppliers if they e.g. decided that brand x power supplies sucked and brand y were better. This gives DELL negotiation power over suppliers (whereas if they had a custom PSU, the company that makes them has more leverage since the costs to have another company continue to make the custom PSU are expensive relatively speaking)"

      It does not work that way. Dell needs to extensively specify and test one kind of PSU thouroughly, and then negotiate a good deal for the on time delivery to keep stocks low. Maybe renegotiate when times goes by. Just "switching power supplies" does not work. If Dell uses proprietary PSU's, they won't be very different from the ones that are in use, and suppliers would not have too many problems delivering Dell specific ones.

      "4.This also extends to software. Do not use any proprietary drivers. All hardware should use the same drivers as you would use if you bought the hardware in a box from a retail store. All drivers should have separate installers included directly with the machine and/or be available to download from the web site such that it is possible to install a normal non DELL non OEM copy of Windows on the DELL machine and not have hardware that wont work right because the only way to get the drivers is to install the special DELL version of windows."

      This is mostly already the case, at least for business computers. Laptops are a different and more difficult story, since the range of specific internal components is that much higher, and (maybe more importantly) they are only sold through a single supplier. Compare this with the large number of components you can for a specific desktop computer; these parts *need* their own driver (although this is changing as more and more get soldered onto motherboards). Custom drivers from Dell seem to be simple rebrands with a specific installer. The trick sometimes is to find out the same part in a retail version and download the correct driver for that (e.g. specific logitech mouse).

      "5.Tone down the crap that is pre-installed. All spyware should be removed completely. All demos and time limited software should have uninstall options and also any limitations in the software (such as anti-virus programs with shorter subscription lengths than retail boxed copies have) should be clearly documented."

      Apart from the documentation, this seems to be the case most of the time as well. Maybe this is different in the states.

    3. Re:Things DELL should change by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the results would be like if there was a menu option at the beginning of the phone call to rate your technical expertise on a scale from 1-9 (ignoring the 0). 1-3 could go to the call center, 4-6 could go to the 2nd tier, and 7-9 could go directly to scheduling the service call (provided they knew exactly what needed to be done to remedy the problem). Sure, you'd get some idiots punching the wrong number, and you'd get tech experts who forgot to try clearing the BIOS, but I'd wager that on the whole, most people would be truthful and it would cut down on customer service costs overall.

  33. Re:Wish Dell or someone would go where HP used to by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    That's something that I think needs to change. I just wish someone would step up to the plate...

    You're only going to get that from some place that's not run as a public company by a fleet of low-rent MBA's. When you have three hundred nattering nabobs walking around saying "We've got to drive the cost out of this thing" you get what we have today. It's made worse when the items are commoditized. HP used to be run by the engineers, but not any more. You see where that got you.

    If you step out of the commodity market you'll find that Apple gets away with charging more for their goods, and their quality is somewhat better (but not like it used to be). But people are looking for my second head when I suggest they drop $2400 on a 24" iMac with a good warranty - they say, "nawww, I'll go buy the Dell for $350". And then they throw it out after a couple frustrating years... and buy another!

    In the PC space, I think what you're looking for is a local whitebox vendor who buys his own parts. Expect him to charge twice as much as Dell's blue-plate special for a desktop machine. In the server space, whitebox vendors like ServersDirect have been doing well for me - Intel Server mobo, 3Ware controllers, onsite warranties, etc. So far I've never needed to try their warranty - it's contracted out like all the others'.

    You can also raid NewEgg for parts if your need are occasional. Also, consider throwing in the towel and planning on redundant architectures - that has its advantages too.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  34. bloated crap...is there anyway..... by Cutting_Crew · · Score: 1

    to just call dell up and say right off the bat, "look i dont want aol free trial, i dont want musicmatch, Dell E Support, or anything else other than win xp because i will not be using any of it." would they just ignore me and not meet my request?

    i dont want all that crap. i am buying from them and therefore i should get the say. i say if someone specifically asked for not to have all that bloat then whats the problem in meeting that?

    1. Re:bloated crap...is there anyway..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I am a Dell sales agent (Home Sales) so let me be the first to tell you: no. You can't get XP anymore. Even on a 512mb machine Dell will still give you Vista (basic).



      It is possible to really cut down on the trial stuff on most Dell computers if you pick the "no preinstalled software" option online in the digital entertainment section. On XPS systems you can go the extra mile and even cut off all the ISP options.

      For nerds the best option is to probably just buy an N-series desktop anyway. They come with freedos (so you can put on the extra XP you have been sitting on...or Linux, whatever) and get full warranty support.

      I personally got around the Dell "junk" software in a unique way- my Dell XPS 210 uses my Macbook's OS (the Macbook runs Linux). But I know that is just for fun- most people have to deal with Wildtangent!

  35. Where can Michael Dell expand to? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    In Capitalist West Michael Dell promises you get profits.
    In Soviet Russia kgb getting a Dell for you!

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  36. You get what you pay for (not what you expect) by stibrian · · Score: 1

    You truly get what you pay for. During college I worked on PCs to make some extra $ - hated working on Dells or Gateways... rather annoying boxen. Into corporate america I go, and I get what I considered a small fortune allocated to buy myself a development laptop. Anything I wanted, as long as it was a Dell :) This was just shy of 3 years ago. I bought a smashing d800 - carried it all over the world, in a backpack, throwning it into and out of the car 5 days a week. The video card smoked on it at 2 yrs - had a tech at my desk at the office 36 hours later putting a new one in. Nearing the end of warranty, I called support. Again, you get what you pay for, and what had been purchased was the 3 year gold warranty with full accidental damage coverage. After I went through the littany of things that were worn out (not broken, just USED) with the tech on the phone (I was on hold for 30 seconds - the Gold queues are short), he said it was cheaper for Dell to just replace the machine. How nice - a new d820 was shipped a few days later that is faster/bigger in all respects to the previous machine. Fully covered under warranty. How much was this warranty? $300. I recently bought another Dell - M90 - top of the line mobile workstation, with the warranty that I had on the previous machine. You can't get close to it's specs from any manufacture out there without giving them $2k more than I paid - and the machine is fabulous - with no pre-loaded crapware - they don't do so much of that on an engineering machine. Long story short - you get what you pay for. Pay $300 for a machine you get a $300 machine. get the cheapest/standard warranty you get 2 hour hold times - what do you expect? As a previous poster mentioned, I don't have the time to build a machine, and build your own laptop is hard... for the money I have a great machine and a stellar warranty that I've seen in action. I used to hate Dell - now not so much :)

  37. This is hopefully good news.... by lokispundit · · Score: 1
    Dell has really gone down the drain over the past couple of years. As as corporate customer I've had to deal with just in the last 6 months
    • 20+ Faulty motherboards, all needing replacement.
    • 2 more faulty motherboards, in BRAND NEW computers out of the box
    • 2 bad DIMMs in a brand new laptop

    Customer service has been terrible, its seems everytime I put in a trouble ticket it get routed to wrong support area. Example: I put in a service call about 2 bad DIMMs; I was then given an email about how to troubleshoot my hard drive problem. I had to call them up and explain the whole thing over again to them in order to get a dispatch for the memory.

    Then there is the bloatware! It's not quite as bad on the corporate desktops, but the Inspirons I ordered were just loaded with trial versions of AOL and Symantec, and god only knows what else. It must have taken 5 minutes to actually boot up to windows.

    That's just unacceptable, you pay good money and in many cases to much money for a computer it shouldn't be crippled when you get it.

    Let's hope that Dell goes back to the basics, and hopefully finds some redemption.

    --
    "Don't be so humble - you are not that great." - Golda Meir
    1. Re:This is hopefully good news.... by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      I never bought a dell in my life, but I'm really amazed at this:

      You bought these via a corporate account? So these were not normal costumer pcs? Then it's really bad, they just annoy their biggest costumers like hell. They know that any corporation will not even use AOL or 30-day symantec trials. Which system admin will keep on buying corporate amounts of dells if he has to work many extra hours to remove the software they put on there. Actually, this will make dells much more expensive if you calculate these admin working hours into the total cost of ownership. Also, they miss out on the smarter idea to bundle larger orders of dells with corporate antivirus contracts. They probably could make shitloads of money if they did that.

      --
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  38. As long as their employees hate working there... by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

    I live in Austin and let me tell you, there are tons of unhappy employees. In recent years, the bureaucratic infighting has really gotten in the way of good business practices, efficiency, and employee satisfaction. If your employees aren't happy, they're certainly not going to provide good customer service, no matter how much you pay them.

    $0.02USD,
    -l

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  39. What a liar by _iris · · Score: 1
    Check out this quote from Time magazine's 10 Questions for Michael Dell, from January 11th:

    Would you take over the day-to-day reins of the company again?

    I'd have to give them up first. I haven't stopped being involved with the company all the time.

    But taking over as CEO?

    No. [CEO Kevin Rollins] and I run the company together. I haven't changed that, and I'm not going to change that.
  40. Give Options other than VISTA by IceDiver · · Score: 1

    I checked out the Dell Web Site yesterday.

    No OS options other than VISTA were available. I did a site search for "Linux" and got a bunch of Linux compatible peripherals, but no systems.

    If they want to keep their customers happy, they should at LEAST give customers the option to buy WinXP until VISTA SP1 comes out.

    Personally, I refuse to buy VISTA or a VISTA-encumbered machine until the DRM crap is removed, either by MS or by a third party. Even then, I'll probably switch to Linux. It's MY computer, not Microsoft's, and NOT Hollywood's.

  41. Tough spot to be in by scarolan · · Score: 1

    Dell is in a tough spot to be in because there's nothing really "special" about their brand. Apple on the other hand, has an incredible brand awareness and unique style which is something customers don't mind paying a premium for. Since the price of a basic starter PC has come down to around $400, Dell doesn't have much that will differentiate it from white-box competitors, at least in the home PC market. And as other commenters have suggested - their customer service sucks. When you get stuck on the phone with someone in Bangalore, it makes you feel like the company is using the cheapest labor possible because it just doesn't care about it's customers.

  42. Re:As long as their employees hate working there.. by psychokitten · · Score: 1

    In the "Gold" server area at least, this problem didn't exist in the Oklahoma City area for awhile after they moved there - and it showed in their performance and the satisfaction of their customers. Doesn't seem to be the case anymore though - their biggest foes and largest brick walls have become their coworkers down in Austin.

  43. Re:Wish Dell or someone would go where HP used to by eggsovereasy · · Score: 1

    After having worked at consumer level computer sales I will go ahead and tell you that any company that attempts to do this will fall flat on their face. People just don't care about quality, all they want is the cheapest thing possible. They don't want to hear about how be CAD is going to suck on a $299 desktop, they just want the $299 computer (financed of course LOL). This is why Walmart is so successful, I've never bought anything there that didn't break or didn't just feel cheap. I do care about quality, but you and I are definitely in the minority here.

  44. I agree with Gruber by cgrayson · · Score: 1

    I agree with John Gruber, author of Daring Fireball:

    My advice: Sell the company's assets and give the money to the shareholders.

    [referring to the Michael Dell's own advice to Apple, years ago.]

  45. oops... where did my formatting go by Arctic+Dragon · · Score: 1

    "Don't assume all customers are idiots, especially when they call for support"
    Every helpdesk I had the mispleasure of calling is guilty of that.

    "Don't use proprietary hardware"
    The PSU is my brother's Dimension 4600 desktop (purchased in late 2003) failed and we replaced it with an off-the-shelf 450-watt unit. Works fine.

    "Tone down the crap that is pre-installed"
    Amen to that. The Dimensions I mentioned above had so much crap preinstalled, it certainly didn't feel like it was powered by a Pentium4. It's easier to format and start with a fresh re-install instead of trying to uninstall all the garbage.

  46. Dell lost lean SupplyChain early mover advantage by hguorbray · · Score: 1

    Dell's initial wins were due to the built-to-order model that let them reduce their supply chain and inventory costs.

    GateWay and Dell were the first to pitch PCs to the general public this way.

    No Bricks and mortar inventory costs helped too.

    Once Compaq and Hp joined them in the 'race to the bottom' Dell started to lose that early-mover (and pricing)advantage. Notice that IBM bowed out of the PC market at about this time....PCs and to some extent servers have been pretty much commodotized at this point...

    Outsourcing Support was probably the beginning of the shift in focus to the customer experience to the shareholder bottom line which has helped put Dell in their current doldrums.

    All things being equal now that the supply chain advantage has been greatly lessened I would expect the balance of strength to lie with Apple and HP and others who still have robust R&D efforts to drive inventive new products while Dell struggles to squeeze the last few % points of efficiency and cost cutting from their model and can only ape the technological advances of others in the marketplace.

    -I'm just sayin'

  47. Look outside? by dacarr · · Score: 1

    When they looked outside, they got to an Indian call center that doesn't meet the userbase's needs. QED, they need to look inside.

    --
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  48. Dell is in trouble because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They pulled the PowerEdge 1850/2850/2800 models last summer with zero advance notice. Even our sales rep didn't know until I told him.

    Some moron decided that the special mounting kit for installing 5.25" devices in the two HH media bays wasn't important enough to make consistently available to customers, and could be made completely unavailable six months after discontinuance of the model even though there are tons of the machines in the field with 2-1/2 years of warrranty and support still to run (and presumably in use and occasionally in need of mounting a new device in a media bay).

    The media bay mounting kit is required to make any use of the bays because there are no standard Molex power connectors behind the bays, and the bays require special Dell plastic rails. You can buy a $50 or $100 PC case at the computer store and get all the power connections and rails necessary, but spend about $5,000 on a PowerEdge and not only does the mounting hardware not come with the machine, you can't order and receive it, either. The chassis provides a special 14-pin power connector for the three possible devices in the media bays, requiring a special 3-way power splitter cable to connect ANY device.

    The media bay mounting kits were malconfigured to begin with: one set of rails, a 3-way power splitter, screws (either metric or 6-32) and two internal SCSI cables. Want to mount a second device? You'll now have the power splitter but not the rails or screws, and if you are mounting a SCSI device the cable they gave you with the first kit has only one device connector. Ask about a 2-device cable and their eyes glaze over. Order a second mounting kit and you'll get one more set of rails, a power splitter you can't use, and another pair of single-device SCSI cables.

    The Dell DDS-4 4mm tape drive, part-numbered for many Dell computers, including models older than the PE 2800, was NEVER available part-numbered for the PE 2800 in all the life of the PE 2800. That means that if you ordered the drive it would not come with PE 2800 mounting hardware. You'd have to order that separately (see above). The last five orders we had for five of the mounting kits were mysteriously cancelled with no explanation.

    Now we're finding that the Dell/Seagate DDS-4 4mm drives they have been sending us are pieces of shit. We have more dead and dying ones than working ones.

    When they introduced the PE 2900, they simplified the mounting arrangements for the 5.25" media bays. No more plastic rails. Instead, they use a special tall screw, like Compaq used in some of their systems. The tall screw is what is captured in a very narrow slot instead of the former wide plastic rail. But they have delivered tape drives, specifically part-numbered for the PE 2900, with no mounting hardware. And efforts over the last month or so to learn the ordering part numbers for the special, tall metric and 6-32 screws produced a wholly incorrect quote for ordinary screws, then a possibly correct quote only recent days. We won't know whether the screws are the right item until they arrive. We've been working on this for months.

    We ordered a DAT72 tape drive specifically part-numbered for the rackmount PE 2950. It arrived with no mounting hardware whatsoever. Fortunately the PE had rails already, but we had to shop the local computer parts stores for a 12" Molex power extender and we had to use a third-party SCSI cable from our odd cables collection.

    The Dell Remote Access Card is a stinking piece of shit in our experience. Most of the ones we have don't work at all for console redirection, the most important function for remote install and support. The ones that work can't sync up the VNC-style dual mouse pointers. The console connections are very fragile if made at all. We had one that worked kinda-sorta OK and one that misbehaved a lot. We pulled them and examined them. They had the same Rev A00 level but different parts, and one had a wire mod on the board. It was the one with older chip revs and th

  49. Dell by june_c21 · · Score: 1

    Michael Dell return Dell? This is not surprise at all! after all, he is the first one that come out with the idea and got it expanded worldwide. He must be frustrated when see Kevin slipping down Dell.