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GameStop Cracks Down on Underage Game Sales
Via GamePolitics, which has commentary of its own on the situation, a report on the Destructoid site pointing out a new, harsher penalty for GameStop employees that sell M-Rated games to minors. To be blunt: they're fired. Not only that but their managers are fired too, for failing to keep an eye on them. This new policy was set down last week in a conference call, which also warned that 'secret shopper' sub-17-year-olds would be trying to keep game store employees on their toes. The article quotes statistics from the ESRB saying that the M-rated policy has, in the past, only been enforced 65% of the time. I would imagine this will work to fix that.
Is the manager expected to work so closely to the employee, that they see every transaction that takes place? If so, couldn't they just use the manager to do the work, and get rid of the employee?
No, seriously. As someone entering the video game development industry, and who doesn't want to see the industry shackled by a decade of Hayes-code-esque "decency laws", I think it's about time for retailers to start picking up the slack WRT enforcement. Sooner or later the Jack Thompsons of the world are not going to be batshit insane self-destructors, and when that happens we need to be able to show that heavy-handed legislation is not the solution to keeping video games age-appropriate.
The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
Manhunt 2 is released this summer. In-store sales for that game will likely be adversely affected by this policy. I wonder how the Gamestop execs will feel after they miss out on the majority of sales of one of the hottest games for the PS2, during the summer school vacation break?
Not saying it's a game for kids. I'm just saying it's probably the parents job of being mindful of what their kids are playing, rather than leaving it up to some retailer.
VOTE!
Would they let Jack Thompson play the Donald Trump role here?
"You're fired!"
It would probably wet his panties to get to fire people like that. Certainly a new move on Gamestop's part. This is what we need instead of more stupid legislation.
The only way I can see a sale to an "underage" child being reported is by a parent who notices the game being played (or on the floor/shelf/etc.) but not having had purchased it for the child. That is, a parent would come in and say "hey wtf why did you sell this to my kid despite this suggestion by the ESRB that it ought to be played by someone older?" I believe that it's the parent's responsibility to have prevented this to begin with (if he/she cares enough) by impressing on his/her child the importance of being sheltered from fictional violence and swearing.
GameStop is probably introducing such harsh rules in order to cover their own rear ends when it comes to parents trying to punish the game stores for failing to, essentially, enforce a rule the parents fail to set.
Being so blindly mindful of the ESRB rating is in my opinion completely irresponsible from any parent's perspective, and I wish GameStop wouldn't respect it as much as they do.
I like basketball!!1!
So they want them to sell like mad beating previous years sales by 6 to 8 percent consistently or they are fired... If they sell to 70 percent of thier market Halo 2 or equivalent which for all intensive purposes is really a teen rated game they are fired as well... Oh yea they get paid the equivalent of walmart employees.... My next question is... Who in thier right mind would want to work for them now???
If this news gets distributed to retail employees as well as the information about the products that they sell does... there's going to be a lot of people fired due to ignorance.
In other words gamestop revenues drop 40%
A surge of non-video-game-playing 18 to 24 year olds have been seen purchasing games from GameStop that they have no interest in playing. When questioned, they said "I don't even have that console." Experts are unsure of why these post-teenage shoppers would be purchasing games and then quickly losing them, but experts will be watching closely to understand the phenomenon.
So all I really need to do if I hate my manager and don't care about my job is sell an M game to a 16 year old? This sounds like a really fun way to quit your crap Gamestop job while taking someone else (you probably hate) out with you. I have had a couple of jobs I would have exited a lot more readily if it meant that my boss would also be fired also.
The only way this will reasonably work is if the point-of-sale system requires manager approval to sell an M rated game. Hopefully the (ahem) genius that devised the ridiculous policy will at least figure out this simple way to make it somewhat fair.
Now I have to pay some homeless guy every time I want to buy a video game, not just when I want cigarettes or booze. Can GameStop start selling Olde English 800 to cut down on my transaction costs? Do these execs think high school kids are made of money??
I can see it now, disaffected 17 year old gamestop employee calls up his little brother (or someone unrelated, who knows?) and gets them to come in, buy an M rated game, gets fired, and takes his manager with me. yyyup.
It is my understanding that the movie industry adopted a rating system in order to prevent the eventual regulation of the movie industry. The game industry needs the same thing. The game industry has the same thing, but if it's not enforced by the retailers then it means nothing. Kudos to Gamestop for enforcing the existing system, so that an aspiring senator doesn't invent a new one.
You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
You are right.
But oddly enough, some of the best films hollywood ever made were under the hayes code. It's interesting to see how much can be infered though innuendo, etc. Now there was some damn creativity.
Back when I worked for that company (when it was called Babbage's) no such policy existed and the rule was pretty much don't do anything that would prevent income. If they have the $59.99 for that game sell them the game. I always wondered about that, not sure I ever really agreed with the policy, but it was the policy.
This will just result in more "Gold" and "Unrated" versions of games. There will be the the Walmart/Gamestop version with puppy dogs and lollipops and the Unrated versions sold by everyone else with hookers and 40s.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
but only because Gamestop employees are dick-holes and deserve every bit of inconvenience and job-insecurity fate deals them. I wish i could be a Gamestop NARC.
Shouldn't this had happen like years ago? While they're at it, a little bit customer of service wouldn't hurt. I can't tell you how many times a barely legal teenager wearing a manager's name tag was too busy talking on his cell phone to ring up a purchase. I get better customer service at Fry's Electronics.
Meh. Nothing surprising here, it's just lame they have to make it corp. policy.
The EB Games I worked at on and off since '98 (gotta love seasonal jobs for the discount), we had a 3-strike policy. We policed ourselves, since we never wanted to deal with an angry parent. But if someone screwed up, it wasn't pretty. Bathroom duty for a month sucked.
Plus it was fun seeing a 12yr odl try and dupe their parent into buying something like GTAx, and asking the parent "are you aware this is a mature rated game?" 90% of the time, they had no idea and would get pissed at their kid.
Ahh, the little joys in life.
You know, I don't support restricting availability of software to "younger" gamers.
;)
If you've played the game Postal (the first one, not the recent FPS "Postal 2"), you'll know it's excessively violent and pretty extreme what with people crawling along in agony, leaving a trail of blood on the ground behind them...
Anyway, I picked up a copy at the age of 13, despite various warnings right on the box (made by the game developer themselves not some parental-advisory group).
Playing Postal at the age of 13 didn't do a damned single negative thing. In fact it gave me a great way to release my pent up anger and frustration about the world around me during those times. If anything it was more *therapeutic* to me, than influential in a harmful way. This is of course merely my own experience and I'm a pretty "dark" kind of person to begin with, so violent stuff doesn't phase me, for instance loving movies like Natural Born Killers, Se7en, American History X etc. all throughout my teenage years...
Anyway, I was going to say I'll boycott GameStop, but I don't buy software anymore unless I *really* like it...
While I was in my local gamestop two days ago getting another wireless controller for my 360, there was this just-starting-to-grey man who looked to be in his late 40's early 50's...you know, showing signs of wrinkles, etc. He was picking up a copy of rainbow six vegas, and the guy behind the counter STILL carded him.
Props to the staff for doing their job.
Living With a Nerd
I personally appreciate this move. No, it's certainly not going to keep my kids from being able to get some game they just have to have, but it might make it just hard enough to not be worthwhile.
However, it's still nothing more than an extra tool for responsible parents. I'd much rather my kids feel comfortable asking me to buy something that they wanted than to have to sneak it in without my knowledge. I'd be happy to hear their argument for it and have the chance to accept it or explain my reasons against it. My six year old son can already mop the floor with me in Quake 2, so it's not like I'm particularly restrictive.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
It used to be that alcohol was a part of man's daily life. Making water into beer and wine kept it potable for long periods of time. While "underage" - if you could call it that - drinking wasn't illegal, it was generally frowned upon for a man to let his son or daughter get roaring drunk. There was family oversight of drinking activities, which tended to restrain people from getting totally sloshed. That, and the fact that hard liquor hadn't been invented...
As the industrial era came upon us, families generally stopped producing alcohol. They could buy it more cheaply from the brewery than they could make it. Consequently, there came about laws which prevented minors from purchasing alcohol. Now the state had to step in to prevent unscrupulous shopkeepers from profiteering from inappropriate drinking. The rationale was pretty good - underage drinking does have deletrious effects on developing minds and bodies.
Still later, when the dangers of tobacco became apparent, selling it to minors was prohibited. Again, it was done with the intention of protecting children, and given that nicotine is more addictive than heroin, it didn't seem like such a bad law.
Now, in the Land of the Future(TM), selling strings of bits to minors is prohibited. Somehow, we are supposed to believe that children are not capable of dealing with violent video games, even though they'll see 16,000 murders on tv by the time they are 18. This restriction, mind you, from the same society that considers Jack Bauer torturing a suspect on national tv to be entertainment. Show it all you want on tv, but don't dare let a minor buy a violent video game.
What an improvement to society!
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Just speaking from experience as a retail tool for Musicland Inc., the rules were not there to punish employees who were behaving badly. The rules were there so your bosses could contrive of reasons to fire you before you threatened them, and for underlings willing to subvert the system and get their bosses fired. I'm not saying that everyone who got canned for 'store theft' was innocent, but it was interesting to hear how "a-list" employees and managers would suddenly see a change in fortunes over a few months and then suddenly be fired for theft or other rules infractions.
Is being fired from a GameStop retail job really that much of a disincentive? I'm sure there are worse things that one can do for a living, but there are certainly things that pay a good deal more.
OK, so don't sell violent games to minors AND don't let them see violent tv. Sex is okay. Problem solved.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
Ever since Gamestop started this stupid policy of only selling new releases to pre-orders, they've not only cracked down on underage buyers but those of legitimate age as well. I refuse to give them any interest-free loans when they can't even guarantee availability.
Thanks to online rental companies I'm not reliant on their stores to get my video game fix. I just can't wait until digital distribution ends this madness for PC titles once and for all.
...becuase everything is in the summary. So why didn't they include the punchline??
"65% of the time, M-rated sales policies were enforced. The other 35% of the time resulted in high school shootings and teen pregnancy."
Classic.
Anyone know if there's similar precendent for the manager firing for alcohol/tobacco sales? For example, if I manage a 7-Eleven store, and one of my cashiers sells beer to a minor without checking ID (and gets caught doing so), then I'm also libel to get fired?
I am guessing the answer is no, which makes it odd for GameStop to enforce such a policy in their own stores. For one thing, it's actually illegal to sell alcohol/tobacco to a minor, whereas it's not that way with M-rated games. So it seems odd to make such a strict policy for something that's not even technically illegal, and much safer than alcohol/tobacco.
That said, I do agree that the clerk him/herself should be severely reprimanded/fired. Why have a rating system at all, if it's not going to be enforced? It would take a lot of the "oomph" out of the sails of these anti-video-game lawyers/politicians, if we could show that the rating system is actually enforced properly. (Plus, reducing the amount of whiny 12-year old kids in my online FPS shooters, is surely a good thing)
-- jchenx
Now we just need to keep those kids that are 12 and younger from buying Teen-rated games. They might be exposed to mild violence!
he loves Doom II on god mode..
he's often asking,
"can I bad guys now?"
3 years old.... he launches it, and by god, types in the iddqd and idkfa as needed.
his favorites are the chainsaw and the plasma gun.
no BS.. I'm a horrible person for this.
it's tapered off of late, but, damn.. it's embarrasing...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I think it's a good step. I know I'm going to get flamed to hell and back, and before you decide you know what kind of parent I am, hear me out.
My kid is just over a year old, so it's going to be a little while before I even have to REALLY concern myself with this. Of course I, as a gamer, am already thinking about this. I don't play games in front of him at all, let alone any games with "questionable" content. You bet your a$$ I'm going to try my best to instill a sense of right and wrong, appropriate vs. inappropriate, etc. However, I also know about all the crap that *I* got away with as an adolescent/teenager, and I'd say that my parents were actually involved in my life WAY more than the average kid. So I appreciate Gamestop stepping up and being one more hurdle between my kid and some questionable content - content that I'm happy to discuss with him when I feel the age is appropriate. Might be before the "age limits" set forth in the ESRB, might be after, upon which time I can't do much about it other than hope that I've taught him well. Short of eliminating a source of funds to buy such games, going WITH him to friends' houses where they might have such games, or otherwise putting him in some kind of concentration camp scenario, I'm not sure how to prevent exposure to such things. For cryin' out loud, I watch episodes of ST:TNG in the morning that I've recorded off G4 TV while I sit with him and feed him his breakfast. EVERY break - I'm not kidding - EVERY commercial break has a commercial about p3n15 pills. Sometimes it's two, back to back (Extenze and Enzyte - you know the ones I'm talking about). It's funny how you don't even think about that stuff until you have a kid. Is it raunchy? No. Is it inappropriate? Probably not, the kid's barely a year old and hasn't shown much interest in TV yet (thankfully). But is it something I think about? Sure I do.
So I guess what I'm getting at is, I like that there is another layer of control (even though I oppose mandatory government restriction in most cases) between myself, my kid, and the "Great Unknown", we'll call it.
Also, I'd say that the "walk a mile in a man's shoes" applies here as well. All of you without kids - I used to think like you. Thought it was so easy and I'd be the best parent ever, how the hell hard can it be? I can tell you, harder than you think. You are constantly adapting to every situation, even at this young of an age. Consistency IS key, but it's always harder than you think it will be to be so. Just keep that in mind as you get ready to fire off your "Parents are the problem these days" responses. That's true in a LOT of circumstances, but there are those of us out there trying like hell to do the best possible job that there is NO training manual for.
even though they'll see 16,000 murders on tv by the time they are 18. This restriction, mind you, from the same society that considers Jack Bauer torturing a suspect on national tv to be entertainment. Show it all you want on tv, but don't dare let a minor buy a violent video game.
Most newer TV sets have parental controls. Just for grins, I turned on just the top 2 ratings for M and TV 14. We have a 13 year old as well as some younger children. Last Saturady evening I flipped through the over the air analog chanels. PBS was on, as well as a basketball game on CBS. All the other main networks were program locked! My evening was pretty much shot for TV. The religious broadcasts, infomercials, PBS, weather, and the ball game was the only things not locked out of about 25 analog and digital TV ststions. Even cartoons were blocked such as The Simpsons and Over the Hill.
If games are rated, could they send a rating signal to the TV so the parental controls work? Blocking M content should fix the problem once and for all for the concerned parents. Our new Tv has parental controls for TV as well as movie ratings.
Does anyone know if any of the main console games support TV parental controls?
The truth shall set you free!
The Wii does. I don't know if it sends a signal to the TV, but you can set the console to not play games above a certain rating.
-Ross
Yes, the Wii mostly does. The ratings apply to Wii games and Virtual Console Games, but it will still play any Gamecube game, regardless of rating. Still, it gives you the option, but it isn't yet perfect.
warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.