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IBM Targets UFOs, Ghosts, and Goblins With Search Tool

coondoggie writes "IBM wants to help you find out if UFOs are real. Well, sort of. With UFO sightings seemingly on the rise, Big Blue is teaming with The Anomalies Network to offer UFO Crawler, a new search engine specifically tuned to search for information about the paranormal, unexplained or just plain bizarre. The search tool employs IBM's OmniFind Yahoo! Edition enterprise search software and the UFO Crawler should help users precisely target and gather information from relevant sources, including thousands of documents and files collected in the vast Anomalies Network archive, as well as multiple global resources across the Web on topics such as such as ghosts, conspiracy theories and extraterrestrials."

192 comments

  1. Military projects by electrosoccertux · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Presumably the most stealthy plane form is a saucer. The idea of many is that these flying saucer sightings are nothing but X-projects. I don't see why this isn't likely to be the case.

    1. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It only takes one incident to be extra-terrestrial to be some huge bombshell that shakes up our perception...

      There are probably a lot of sightings of stuff that are really just exotic aircraft and military projects. And then 80% of the reported UFOs are probably easily explainable as common stuff. I'm picking that number out of my ass but it's IIRC from some of the UFO documentaries I've seen.

      I think it is highly plausible that if there was some sort of contact with not-of-this earth beings and technology that the government would hide it, and try to take whatever they could for military advantage. Some of the reports I've read about secret budgets and groups seems highly plausible to me.

      I know there is so much noise and disinfo in this field that it is a nightmare to try and figure out what is going on. And I think it is intentional. It attracts the crazies. Then people who want to keep things secret or hidden (whether alien or military tech or whatever), run interference. Then most of the documentaries that hit History/Discover/Sci-Fi channel skip over some of the more hardcore info that can be found if one digs.

      I hate to say I disagree with the "mainstream" of this fringe group of UFO sorts. I don't really believe in spacemen from other planets visiting use in their saucer shaped tin cans at this point. I'm more for interdimensional entities, and something that is much more difficult to nail down with any definitive language. But then again maybe there are spacemen hanging out in some secret underground base. Maybe we are a genetic experiment conducted and managed by aliens. Maybe we are a genetic alien hybrid race seeded here and monitored. Etc etc. So many theories. I do think SETI is kind of wasting their time. I think contact has already been made, but I'm still not certain if the world is ready to know about it. One way or the other pressure seems to be building and this stuff seems to be getting more mainstream...

      Oh yeah and after the silly "terrorists are gonna get yah" nonsense for the sake of fear and control, next it's gonna be, "the ETs are gonna get us, we must defend planet earth". So of course we need a central one world government and space based weapons that will presumably be an effective defense against beings that could be millions or billions of years ahead of us technologically. Uhm yeah... : ) Back to our regular missile reseach program.. ahem *cough*

      PS: How about them alien moon bases and the censored NASA photos eh?

    2. Re:Military projects by eln · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Conspiracy theories don't work like that. Conspiracy theories employ a sort of reverse Occam's Razor: do not accept the simplest logical explanation if a needlessly complicated conspiracy can be made to fit the same facts.

    3. Re:Military projects by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow man, it's a good thing you aren't one of those "crazies" that you talk about or you would have posted some bizarre rant about one world government and interdimensional beings instead of this well-thought-out rational discourse.

    4. Re:Military projects by thrawn_aj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Somehow, the idea of "top-secret" government projects (called X-projects for some strange reason *roll*) that can do the things that people claim they do seems as much of a conspiracy theory as the whole UFO paranoia. I think people are taking that old bromide about there being a kernel of truth inside every legend a little too seriously :P. People are foolish enough, or attention-starved enough or diseased enough, or naive enough to get there on their own. One can summarize this lunacy in a simple (albeit fuzzy) equation: Search for meaning + lack of scientific tools = significance junkie (religious or pseudoscientific). Of course, I personally encourage the UFO nuts to continue with their fairly harmless obsession. Keeps them out of trouble. I mean, really, it's no different from collecting stamps is it?

    5. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Prokofy's Razor: Given two equally predictive theories, choose the most complex conspiracy.

    6. Re:Military projects by db32 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I typically hear them refered to as black projects, and skunkworks type stuff, and the only place I have seen X anything is in regards to eXpierimental aircraft. The X-2 for example was the 1st plane to break the sound barrier, X-15 is in that realm of sound barrier breaking research as well, the X-35 is just the Joint Strike Fighter thats all the rage in the news.

      Aside from that, I have often wondered if the 'conspiracy' is government supplied. Think about this, you are doing top secret research during the cold war era, spies everywhere. Something bad happens, there is a mishap, and now there are a bunch of people that saw it, and even more people (important ones, not just your average paranoid schmuck) that are terribly terribly interested in what you were doing. So you tell a weak story and then sow the seeds of alien/UFO conspiracy. Almost any form of HUMINT is going to be completely and utterly worthless as every man, woman, and child is talking about the alien spacecraft and not a top secret research project mishap.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    7. Re:Military projects by Spunkee · · Score: 0, Troll

      Actually, it's fewest assumptions -- not "simplest logical explanation". This invalidates the remainder of your post, but I'll bite anyway.

      911 for example... 12 uneducated Muslim extremists hijack 4 aircraft simultaneously and manage to crash 3 of them into buildings. They use box knives for this. They were able to fly the aircraft with pinpoint precision with only commercial pilot licenses at best (airline transport licenses really are required for this level of precision).

      They were in fact so precise that they managed to hit the Pentagon at 530 mph without even grazing the lawn. Just look at the pics. No conspiracy here. No doctored pics. Further, they managed to vaporize all but a supposed APU wheel. They managed to lower the melting point of titanium. The one piece of wreckage with an AA logo they did find had no scratches or fire burns. Amazing.

      Try that in Flight Sim X with a 747 (smaller than the 757 that hit the Pentagon). I would bet you cash money that you overshoot or undershoot it your first 10 tries. These guys had one shot at it. Remember, you have to do this while avoiding the lawn entirely.

      In fact, I don't think you'd even be able to pull off the turn toward the Pentagon without going into a high-speed stall.

      Also, one of the hijacker's passport managed to fly out of the aircraft, out of the trade tower, onto the sidewalk below, where it was conveniently found... Hmm.

      All of this in the most secure nation on Earth.

      Now that's an awful lot of assumptions. If we went over everything in the 911 Omission Report, we would find even more.

      The alternative explanations (that I won't bother reiterating here) make far fewer assumptions.

    8. Re:Military projects by eln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with conspiracy theorists is they insist on sticking to their theory even when several aspects of it are empirically shown to be false. The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a great example of this.

      For example: you say the hijackers were uneducated, but that's demonstrably false. Mohammed Atta, for example, had a Master's degree.

      Also, the Boeing 747 is quite a bit larger than the Boeing 757.

      As for the Pentagon hit, there was tons of debris, and they DID hit plenty of other things on the way in, including several fences, cars, and a generator.

      As for the crack about the "most secure nation on Earth," maybe you missed all the news stories for years after 9/11 about how most of our highest value targets (power plants, water treatment, etc, etc) are still completely open and vulnerable to attack.

      So in this case, it's not a conspiracy that can be made to fit the facts, it's a conspiracy that will fit the "facts" that were made up to fit the theory.

    9. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Where to begin with the errors in this post. Let's start with:

      "12 uneducated Muslim extremists"

      Uneducated? Is that what you called Mohamed Atta with his Architecture degree from Cairo Univeristy and his Masters degree obtained in Germany? Or Abdulaziz al-Omari, also with a University degree? Many of the hijackers were educated. Not that all of them needed to be to wield a box cutter and cut up a few flight crew members in order to execute someone elses well-conceived hijack plan.

      "They were able to fly the aircraft with pinpoint precision with only commercial pilot licenses at best (airline transport licenses really are required for this level of precision"

      Wrong. ATP certificates are required to act as pilot in command of an airliner, but most flights you can take on an airline are flown 50% or more by the First Officers (copilot) who only have commercial pilots certificate. They will frequently fly one entire leg of a flight from takeoff to landing and let the captain fly the next leg. This is how they build the flight time to become an ATP. You must have already demonstrated proficiency in precision instrument flying and high performance manuevers to get your commercial certificate. There are no additional "precision" maneuvers learned for an ATP cert. It is only a matter of hours (1500 PIC) and an additional flight and written test. As a licensed Private Pilot, I have to say you sound like you know little about the subject. It is more difficult to fly precision manuevers in a Cessna 172 than in the airliners flown by these pilots, which are far more stable and easy to manuever, particulary when already in flight and trimmed for cruise. Nothing but throttle, yolk, and rudder were needed to accomplish the 9/11 hijackers task, which are the most elementary flight controls. Most home 'pilots' flying a computer flight simulator at 100% realism settings can accomplish the same feat with ease after a little practice. The hijacker pilots had real flight training by comparison. Now if you want difficuly, try shooting an ILS approach in a Cessna 172 in IFR conditions with winds gusting and moderate to heavy turbulance. Once you can do that, then you can discuss this with me from a position of authority.

      "Further, they managed to vaporize all but a supposed APU wheel. "

      Yeah, that and the other few thousand other pieces of wreckage, including the landing struts, engine sections, larger pieces of fuselage, etc. I guess you missed the photos of the other parts, so that means they don't exist, right? I mean if a website you found says there was only one piece of wreckage and has a picture of it, that must be right, huh? By the way, you don't have to melt aluminum or titanium in a high speed collision with reinforced concrete. It will mostly atomize into dust upon impact, as can be see in decades old military crash test videos found all over the net.

      Let's see if you can count more than one piece of wreckage here:

      http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

      And learn what happens when jets meet reinforced concrete walls, like those in the Pentagon:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_RGM4Abv8

    10. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such a shame. Straw men are easy targets. You know that Atta had a Master's degree, but could you name the age of each of the hijackers? How about half of them? Or could you tell me why we aren't interested in figuring out as much as possible about them? You say a Boeing 757 is much larger than a 747, when the fact is three of those flipping planes could have hit one of the towers, and they would not a turned to powder, or melted the steel. I'm sure that DC has the most secure air space on earth. That place is covered with SAM's, as it was before 9/11. How is it we didn't get a shot off, though we knew a plane was coming for an hour? I mean, come on, this isn't really the place to expose what what really happened, but it is a place where people try to use some logic. Your logic is so flawed, it's clear that you don't reason the way most of the developers here.

    11. Re:Military projects by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      As in Prokofy Neva? That's so on the mark! LOL

      I'm still laughing about how opening the source will created a "closed society of coders". The new FIC is coming, experienced C++ coders only, please! (/me dies laughing.)

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    12. Re:Military projects by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Or maybe the leaders of the world are just playing a complex game of who can engineer events that spawn the most conspiracy theories. "Hey, everyone! Let's talk about some 'New World Order' shit for a while and see how many people will bite!"

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    13. Re:Military projects by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      when the fact is three of those flipping planes could have hit one of the towers, and they would not [have]... melted the steel See, the rest of your idiot's rant can be discarded as regurgitation by an uneducated fool, based entirely on the above point.

      Steel does not need to be brought to its melting point to be structurally weakened enough to fail.

      You're an idiot.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    14. Re:Military projects by MoxFulder · · Score: 1

      I think it is highly plausible that if there was some sort of contact with not-of-this earth beings and technology that the government would hide it, and try to take whatever they could for military advantage. Some of the reports I've read about secret budgets and groups seems highly plausible to me.

      If the aliens are so smart and have such a military advantage... why the hell do they let the government push them around? I wouldn't even put up with airport security if I had advanced weaponry!
    15. Re:Military projects by Paladin144 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As for the crack about the "most secure nation on Earth," maybe you missed all the news stories for years after 9/11 about how most of our highest value targets (power plants, water treatment, etc, etc) are still completely open and vulnerable to attack.

      Oh really? So I could walk into a nuclear power plant today, or 3 years ago, with no problem? Is that a fact? That means I should have no problem carrying out my devious plan to put LSD in the water supply because, as you say, water treatment facilities are "completely open." Somehow I suspect you'll stick with your theory even though part of it has been proven false.

      Some other poster mentioned something about "conspiracy theorists" (a pejorative phrase akin to me call you a "boot-licking, fascist tool") working backwards from their preconceived notions in an attempt to prove their hypothesis. But isn't the reverse true as well? There are a lot of people who don't want to contend with the idea that the government either let 9/11 happen, or had a hand in creating it simply because the idea is so offensive to everything we hold dear. So people assume that the 9/11 Truthers are "crazies" and work backwards from that. Both sides are guilty of this action.

      By the way, it's noteworthy to point out that the official story (the government's version of events on 9/11) is also a conspiracy theory in that it's unproven, and it involves a conspiracy -- 19 hijackers conspired to fly planes into buildings, presumably with Osama bin Laden playing the role of the maniacal genius mastermind hiding in a cave somewhere, pulling strings, and manipulating people in a brilliant plan to destroy the United States while setting up a pan-Islamic Caliphate. I wonder if Bin Laden laughs insanely while stroking a cat like Ernst Blofield.

      Quite frankly, both the truthers' and the governments' versions of events sound like something Hollywood dreamed up.

    16. Re:Military projects by Em+Ellel · · Score: 1

      Oh really? So I could walk into a nuclear power plant today, or 3 years ago, with no problem? Is that a fact? That means I should have no problem carrying out my devious plan to put LSD in the water supply because, as you say, water treatment facilities are "completely open." Somehow I suspect you'll stick with your theory even though part of it has been proven false. You better have a LOT of LSD handy.. Its not like someone could go and plant bombs in california water supply.... note that they also found not one, not two, but TWENTY FIVE vehicles (that means cars and stuff). Of course if you want any significant amount of LSD to reach anyone, you better have one BIG ASS acid factory.

      From the article:

      "You can find just about anything in there," he said. "We've found safes from burglaries, soda pop machines, washing machines, all number of things."

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    17. Re:Military projects by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      The X-2 for example was the 1st plane to break the sound barrier X-1, actually.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    18. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      OK, I'll tag team whup ass on a troll.

      I'm sure that DC has the most secure air space on earth. That place is covered with SAM's, as it was before 9/11.

      The Pentagon is about 1 mile from National Airport. Aircraft still go near the building.

      You are truly a sad excuse for a rational human.

    19. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, good thing the steel doesn't have to be brought to melting. Because the people who were visible standing in the hole afterwards and the fire fighters who got there and reported minor fires they could get under control at that location might otherwise have gotten burned before they died in the collapse.

      Hey, can I rent your debunking services?, they seem pretty good.

    20. Re:Military projects by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 1

      I think a bigger question is- How the hell can creatures intelligent enough to travel across light years of space not understand basic camouflage? I mean what kind of idiot flies a saucer with a bunch of blinky lights at night if they want to stay hidden? Also, since they can watch all of our broadcasts, wouldn't they kind of know that a fairly large number of people believe they exist? Are they such stupid intergalactic megabrains that they don't understand when the jig is up either?

    21. Re:Military projects by Lavene · · Score: 1

      Kinda defies all logic doesn't it. They have traveled an unimaginable long distance using unimaginably advanced technology and discovered, to them, new lifeforms. And then they say to them self: "Hey, lets give this group of beings our technology so they can kill the other group of beings more efficiently!"

    22. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On what basis are you making this claim? Which country's military are you referring to? Are you somehow in the know about all militaries?

      I don't see why this isn't likely to be the case.

      Your wild speculation does NOT make it so.

    23. Re:Military projects by Plutonite · · Score: 1

      You'd think someone talking about one world government to defeat the sure-to-come Mars attack would at least use his real nickname. I'm dissapointed, to say the least.

    24. Re:Military projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, this is strange. I didn't realise that UFO sightings were "up" at all, but something just clicked after reading this topic. The other night I did see something from out of my window that looked a bit peculiar. It was a fast moving, silent blue streak. It travelled completely horizontally at what looked to be a very low altitude. By the time I noticed it, it had "disappeared".

      At first I thought it might have been a firecracker or something, but to be that visible to me, it would have needed to be pretty close, it would have made a sound and wouldn't have flown perfectly straight. Then I thought it might have been a meteor, but it was too low to the ground and the problem of horizontal movement comes into question again.

      Hmm, this is sort of creeping me out now.

    25. Re:Military projects by db32 · · Score: 1

      You are right. I'm actually a little ashamed since I have read Yeagers biography and have seen both the X-1 and X-15 at the smithsonian. However, thankfully I'm not completely off my rocker. X-2 was part of the Mach 2-3 stuff not Mach 1. All in all I think it is amazing that these jets could reach the speeds that they did with the pilots having such massive steel balls. Yaeger even did it with a broken rib! Titanium balls on that guy. Having grown up around this stuff its strange to see how the words "test pilot" cause a fighter pilots eyes to light up and his wife's to glaze in horror.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    26. Re:Military projects by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
      The problem with conspiracy theorists is they insist on sticking to their theory even when several aspects of it are empirically shown to be false. The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a great example of this.

      Some of them are. There are a lot of ideas surrounding the event and some of them aren't very smart or insightful. Some of them, however, are extremely smart and insightful. You would be very hard pressed to explain the government's actions and lack of proper investigation on that day, or to apply the official explanation offered up in a way which explains the dozens of anomalous facts.

      For example: you say the hijackers were uneducated, but that's demonstrably false. Mohammed Atta, for example, had a Master's degree.

      I don't recall anybody ever claiming that they doubted the official explanation for 9-11 based on the formal university education of the supposed hijackers. I know that the fact that two of the hijackers failed out of the flight school they attended is mentioned in serious debates. Is this what you are maybe referring to?

      Also, the Boeing 747 is quite a bit larger than the Boeing 757.

      Again, I don't know what you are talking about. What is your point? How does this invalidate any of the rational arguments which posit that 9-11 was an inside job?

      As for the Pentagon hit, there was tons of debris, and they DID hit plenty of other things on the way in, including several fences, cars, and a generator.

      Ah. The Above Top Secret write-up. Granted, the editor worked hard to create his site and he tries to think clearly, but there are many flaws with his various arguments.

      Here's a site which offers a point by point rebuttal which has more data and far greater clarity of thinking.

      Perhaps that can help.


      -FL

    27. Re:Military projects by eln · · Score: 1

      For clarity, I was not attempting to debunk any conspiracy theories. I have spent enough time banging my head against brick walls to know better by now. I was merely arguing against the specific points brought up by the post I replied to, nothing more. This is why the 747 v 757 point is there: I was illustrating that something the poster said was clearly and obviously false, not attempting to use that to debunk the conspiracy theory in general.

  2. Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Dareth · · Score: 1

    The search tool employs IBM's OmniFind Yahoo! Edition enterprise search software

    Nothing new here, you always had to be a real "YAHOO!" to believe in UFO's anyway.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
    1. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by rblancarte · · Score: 1

      if they were smart, they would use this to find a new business plan.

      --
      It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
    2. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by JohnnyLocust · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe we could use it to find Duke Nukem Forever

    3. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Nothing new here, you always had to be a real "YAHOO!" to believe in UFO's anyway.

      Why, UFO's most certainly exist. All they have to be is unidentified and flying.

      Now, wether or not they're aliens is a different story. But, 'UFO' doesn't directly imply that.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to be a REAL "YAHOO!" not to know what a UFO is.

    5. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by dctoastman · · Score: 1

      So, if you can't identify it, it's flying, and you are sure it is from a foreign nation, can we start assuming aliens then?

    6. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Larry+Lightbulb · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't Yahoos explain most UFO sightings as Laputa?

    7. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Mr2cents · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Want a a business plan?

      1. Attract gullible people around paranormal search engine.
      2. Use advertisement space to sell magnetic healing jewlery, talismans, tin-foil hats and other crap.
      3. Profit!

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    8. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by popeye44 · · Score: 1

      What? I can BUY a tinfoil hat? Jeezuz.. I've been making them from burrito wrappers for 10 years.. ain't no damn wonder my head smells like chile verde. So where's this site i can buy one??

      --
      Inane Comments are Generously Disregarded
    9. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Paladin144 · · Score: 1
      So, if you can't identify it, it's flying, and you are sure it is from a foreign nation, can we start assuming aliens then?

      No, they might have a visa or a green card. We're only concerned about Unidentified Flying Illegal Aliens. Big difference.

    10. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Mr2cents · · Score: 1

      For just $299, I can sell you a tin-foil hat. Order today, and you get a free magnetig healing necklace. It might look just like a fridge magnet on a rope, but really it isn't!

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    11. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      you always had to be a real "YAHOO!" to believe in UFO's anyway.
      Or a real bastard.
      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    12. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by genner · · Score: 1

      Did the men in black haul you away yet?
      Step 2 is a closely guarded secret.
      Thats why smart posters always fill it in as ???

    13. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by sankyuu · · Score: 1

      /dons own tinfoil hat
      That's no tinfoil hat, that's a tinfoil antenna! Waitaminute... you're with them!

    14. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Nothing new here, you always had to be a real "YAHOO!" to believe in UFO's anyway.

      You have to be a real dumb ass not to.

      For years before the government officially debuted the B2 and F117A, people reported seeing them in the sky. Before they were identified, do you know what they were? Unidentified Flying Objects, yes UFOs.

      UFOs exist, that much is not nor has it ever been in question. The only question is were any of them built and or piloted by beings who are not from Earth.

      There's no concrete proof that there are extraterrestrial UFOs, but there is some evidence, albeit inconclusive.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    15. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by the_womble · · Score: 1

      You would have stood a much better chance of being modded funny if you had worked in a Star Trek reference, rather than one that would only be understood by moderators who have actually read a book.

    16. Re:Nothing New - A Real Yahoo! by Larry+Lightbulb · · Score: 1

      But when told of "Stratos" I usually think of an aftershave than a floating city.

  3. Hey! I know!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's make a TV Show out of this!

  4. While... by Icarus1919 · · Score: 4, Funny

    While I understand that this is probably good for pageviews and thus revenue, do we really have to encourage these people?

    1. Re:While... by daeg · · Score: 1

      I'd type up a witty reply, but the Government is watching me.

    2. Re:While... by zCyl · · Score: 1

      do we really have to encourage these people?

      Unquestionably there's a lot of crap out there on these topics. But what we can probably all agree would be nice is if there were some site which organized such things with the ability for user moderation to raise the better material above the crap.

      (Unfortunately this does not seem to be what Yahoo has in mind...)
    3. Re:While... by kabocox · · Score: 1

      While I understand that this is probably good for pageviews and thus revenue, do we really have to encourage these people?

      Yes, we should. There is a part of me that would love to have the cash to just throw up a DVR security system for 1.5-2K with 4 cameras and record everything that flies over head or also cars passing by my house. I'd want to be able to have pics/videos of what passed, and a date/time stamp, with the GPS cordinates, of my home. To me, every plane flying over my home is a UFO and every car that passes infront of my house is a UDO (UnId'd Driving Object.)

      If I had a setup recording that type of data, I'd be willing to exchange it with others to ID all those objects. I'd like to know the ID for every plane, car, or just jogger that passes by my house.

    4. Re:While... by MajinBlayze · · Score: 1

      The preceding post will shortly be deleted, as it contains incorrect allegations about our country

      --
      "Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time." Danny Vinyard -American History X
  5. Don't click the link! by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's what they want you to do!

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Don't click the link! by VEGETA_GT · · Score: 1

      set your in foil hats to maxumen people

    2. Re:Don't click the link! by Mercuria · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter anyway. The fnords will prevent anyone from successfully aggregating any data about what's really going on.

    3. Re:Don't click the link! by maxume · · Score: 1

      !?

      effing filter.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Don't click the link! by DimGeo · · Score: 1

      Thanks! I just clicked, now they know of my good intentions!

  6. Is this really a good use of resources? by Tokimasa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sure, it might be interesting. But why isn't IBM devoting resources to actual space research? Or even something more earth based?

    --
    --Thomas J. Owens
    1. Re:Is this really a good use of resources? by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is called capitalism. IBM has a service for "tuned" search engines. Some organization was willing to pay IBM to tune it for paranormal searches. IBM took their cash.

      I;'d argue it is a wonderful allocation of resources. Idiots gave their money away. Intelligent people will then get to use it for something more purposeful. What is wrong with that?

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:Is this really a good use of resources? by Tokimasa · · Score: 1

      After re-reading both the story here and the article linked to, it doesn't say anything about IBM being hired or paid to do this. In fact, the use of "teaming up" makes it seem like it wasn't about the financial gain for IBM. If this was a normal contract, then it would be different. But I don't see why IBM would want any part of this unless they were doing something for their gain. I'm failing to see how IBM will gain from this.

      --
      --Thomas J. Owens
    3. Re:Is this really a good use of resources? by FLEB · · Score: 1

      A public demo, perhaps?

      --
      Information wants to be free.
      Entertainment wants to be paid.
      You just want to be cheap.
  7. Mulder would have been happy.... by rd · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm sitting here on the couch watching X Files thinking that this may have made Mulder and Scully's job a bit easier...

    1. Re:Mulder would have been happy.... by BendingSpoons · · Score: 2, Funny

      Scully, I've received another report of spontaneous human combustion. Quick - to the IBM's OmniFind Yahoo! Edition enterprise search software with UFO Crawler!

      With any luck, we'll find a few geocities pages documenting this bizarre phenomenon. If we're extremely lucky, we might even come across a few poorly animated gifs of the combustion process.

      --
      For all we know the moon may be as conscious as a poet or a realtor, and extremely weary of its monotonous round. - HLM
    2. Re:Mulder would have been happy.... by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Tobin's spirit guide. Online. Sweet.

      ~X~

      --
      ~X~
  8. How many people really believe in these things? by kiyoshilionz · · Score: 1

    Honestly. I'm a skeptic of religion because it proclaims that some invisible "being" is responsible for our world. There's no physical evidence to back that up (I don't want to start a debate here though, this is just my opinion). For the EXACT SAME REASON I feel like UFO's, extraterrestrials, ghosts, poltergeists, etc. are all not real. Nothing to really back it up. Am I the only skeptic or do people actually believe in this ish?

    1. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Okay, time to play devil's advocate as it were.

      You don't believe in some invisible entity being responsible for life on this world. That means that you believe in evolution, yes?

      Now, let's say that, theoretically, that this is not the only world out there capable of sustaining some form of life. Say there's one in every three planatary systems just for the sake of argument.

      On some subset of those, there must be some form of life. On some subset of *that* it must have evolved into intelligent life. It then stands to reason that at least a few of *those* have evolved to the point of travel outside of their world - possibly even outside of their solar system.

      Therefore it only makes sense, given the above, that it is indeed possible that UFOs are real.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    2. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      I imagine the number of people in the world who don't hold some sort of irrational belief based on no evidence whatsoever is so incredibly small that we may as well call it 0. I like to think that my own superstitions or irrational behaviors are slightly less crazy than believing that there are extraterrestrials flying around in Earth's atmosphere all the time who only ever make contact with random nutjobs out in the boonies and the whole thing is covered up by a really good conspiracy, or that there's some invisible man in the sky with infinite power controlling everything, but I'd say that when Aristotle claimed that man is a rational animal he was pretty much completely wrong.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    3. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1
      Am I the only skeptic or do people actually believe in this ish?


      I believe in UFOs but not the other stuff. Why? Because there are UFOs. There are many things we see in the sky and record which, after exhaustive analysis and investigation, cannot be explained. Thus, they are Unidentified Flying Objects.

      Even Project Blue Book, for the scam that it was, had a small percentage of cases which could not be explained.

      Does this mean that these are crafts from another planet? Maybe, maybe not. All we know for sure is that they are Unidentified Flying Objects.

      Besides, what is the difference between believing in UFOs and life on another planet? In neither case do we have proof but in both cases we can say that more than likely, such things exist.

      And before you Taliban types start chiming in, in both cases we can test whether either is true. In the case of life on another planet it's simply a matter of finding such a place. In the case of UFOs, we either shoot one down or find one that crashes or, in a neat way to answer both questions, one lands and out steps creatures from another planet.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    4. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      But if you shoot down a UFO, and then identify it, it is no longer a UFO.

      I think this is the big problem - every time one is shot down or analyzed it loses the "U" from its designation.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    5. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's a huge difference between "believing UFOs are real" and "believing UFOs are possible". People like you who lump the two together indistinctively cause a great deal of confusion in the debate.

    6. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      True, but if we did shoot one down, it would answer the other question.

      It's like anything which is unidentified. Once we figure out (or think we figured out) what it is, it's no longer unidentified.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    7. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by morsdeus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think the distinction is that while intelligent, civilization-forming extraterrestrial life may be not only real but abundant on cosmic scales, the likelihood that any intelligent lifeform smart enough to develop an economical method of traveling interstellar distances within a reasonable timeframe would have any desire to come to Earth is exceedingly low. And even if they did, it further stands to reason that they would either interfere with us outright, or be completely undetectable, that any experiments they performed would not be half-assed jobs that left people running around with partial memories chatting about it, and they would certainly not be allied with, much less occasionally overpowered by, the US government/military.

    8. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      Of course for all of the above a wise saying bears repeating:

      Absence of Proof, is not Proof of Absence.

      And of course, we cannot find anything if we do not seek it. Which is exactly what this is. I suppose you don't believe in the higgs boson either?

      Now you *can* logically argue that we are unlikely to find these things, or its not economically in our interests to devote resources to the search for them. But Please, if you're going to be a "skeptic" at least base your skepticism in something more "scientific" than absence of proof.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    9. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bladesjester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Disclaimer: I'm just continuing the logical argument and not expressing my own beliefs.

      By the same token, you could consider our wildlife tagging and study methods to be half-assed. I mean, after all, we aren't undetectable to the animals in question. The people doing the studies just don't think the animals are intelligent enough to be phased by the actions being performed on them.

      Who says we aren't experiencing the same thing from the animal's point of view?

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    10. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      If it was shot down, it would also lose the F, and it would just be an O.

    11. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by milesObrien · · Score: 1

      I've never seen this site referenced here, so I'll post: http://www.ufoevidence.org/ If even a small percentage of the most credible accounts here are true, then the Earth has been regularly visited by unknown entities for a long time. Yes, there are a LOT of mistaken observations, hoaxes, etc. But it is also true that the HUGE number of highly credible reports (Pilots, police, first responders, educated, articulate people, etc) in databases like these indicates that something beyond the capabilities of human tech is going on. ...and just because Coelacanths were unknown to official science until the mid 20th century, does not mean they didn't exist.

    12. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bladesjester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, proving something is possible is a large step on the way to proving something exists. That doesn't cause confusion unless you don't realize that the two are in fact, connected.

      The words Necessary but not Sufficient come to mind.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    13. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Zephyros · · Score: 2, Funny

      When you shoot one down, you tend to lose the "F" as well. Which pretty much just makes it an object.

    14. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Zephyros · · Score: 1

      Bah. I guess that's what I get for not refreshing right before posting.

    15. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Trails · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't. What you've laid out is the possibility of intelligent life on other planets.

      You haven't addressed some of the other very real challenges, e.g. the prohibitiveness of interstellar travel, statistically insignificant chance of "them" finding "us", etc..., you've just assumed intelligent life on other planets implies the possibility of UFO's.

    16. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by ShibaInu · · Score: 2, Funny

      To quote the Simpsons: We have reached the limits of what anal probing can teach us!

    17. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Animals aren't intelligent, and we don't have to cross several lightyears in order to study them. If we had the capability to speak to the animals, and had to travel interstellar distances before we could even look at them, do you really think we'd bother tagging them?

      You'd have to be a bit crazy to suggest that a species which has perfected space-travel to the extent needed to make interstellar research viable could learn ANYTHING by sticking glorified thermometers up the asses of rednecks and certifiable lunatics.

    18. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bill_kress · · Score: 1

      My thought is that the word Belief is problematic. To believe is the same as to not believe--it means that you pre-choose a position and start discarding evidence that my come in to support the opposing position.

      To be able to state what you know without going into what you believe would be much better.

      There is no evidence about God one way or the other... You are welcome to choose to believe something, just remember that it's your personal opinion and not a fact--unless you have personal evidence.

      When it comes down to it--the word Belief should be very close to the word "Imagine" or "Dream", if you actually have personal proof, it's not a belief it's a fact or knowledge (at least for you). There are a few things I have personal proof of that are outside the belief structure of a typical skeptic, so I get really nervous when I see that word--skeptics are believers as well, they have faith in the fact that a lack of physical evidence can imply something--The original "Flat earthers" were absolutely skeptics.

    19. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finding a necessary but not sufficient condition for something is not generally a "large step on the way to proving something" in mathematics(which it seems like you're referencing). It could be a proof that something is false(if we already know the condition does not hold), but it is otherwise unhelpful.

      A demonstration of this: 3 > 2 is a necessary but not sufficient condition for 3 > 4(assuming we already know that 4 > 2). Nevertheless, proving 3 > 2 is not a "large step on the way" towards proving 3 > 4.

    20. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by proxy318 · · Score: 1

      Absence of proof is not proof in itself. The basis of science is that you only accept hypotheses once you have evidence to support them. Arguing "it's real because you can't prove it isn't" is just silly. I can't prove Santa Clause isn't real, so he must be, right?

      --
      Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
    21. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Surt · · Score: 1

      What you're exploring has been standardized in the drake equation:
      http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/d rake_equation.html

      Note that I think ne is ridiculous, I would expect that to be a fractional quantity.

      You have to make a slight modification if you want to find out if there are alien visitors in UFOs hanging around (add a couple of extra fractional multipliers).

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    22. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by morsdeus · · Score: 1

      Hmm. That's fairly reasonable, but I'd still contend that there's a fundamental divide of sapience, awareness, and technology between humans and most lower animals that makes fully direct analogies to our treatment of them not totally accurate.

    23. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Animals aren't intelligent

      I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. I've seen quite a few examples of intelligent animals. The two that come to mind off the top of my head are my cat and dog.

      My cat has figured out how to lock the door to my house and enjoys doing so every time I step outside if I've made him angry. It has gotten to the point that I take my keys with me if I go to check the mail.

      My dog, on the other hand, figured out how to undo any lock we attached to his collar. The only thing that kept him at the house while he was alive (he died of old age several years ago) was his desire to be there. He would literally let himself loose, run around for a while and then come back, knock on the door and follow you into the back yard where he was tied out.

      Even if you don't consider those things to be signs of intelligence, there have been stories recently (I believe one even made it on here) of primates using tools in order to hunt. There have been reports at zoos for years that they used them to gather food, and I think we can safely say that tool use is a sign of intelligence.

      Personally, I think that your assertion that animals are unintelligent is pretty well shot...

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    24. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Again, continuing the argument along those lines (and again stating that we're not outlining my beliefs, just following a logical course), it would be possible that an even higher order of being would think the same of us as you do of the lower animals.

      Higher and lower are, on some levels, really just a matter of perspective which leads to classification. So, really, are the ways that intelligence is measured. See my comment to the poster above you about my dog, my cat, and primate tool use.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    25. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      On the other hand he stated they'd either be undetectable or interfere in obvious ways. We are doing the latter.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    26. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      However, absence of counterproof is not a sufficient reason to consider something. That's the difference between the Higgs Boson and the Timecube, the former is a concept to fit into equations because they work better that way, the latter is just a far-fetched claim with no reason to exist. For extraterrestrial visitors we have no reason to assume there are any because there are no phenomena that cannot be explained by things that we know exist. Same for other things that people believe in, e.g. Santa Claus or deities, there is no proof that they don't exist but there is no reason to consider their existence in first place. Occam's Razor means we prefer simple theories and generally introducing new things (especially complex things like sentient life) should be avoided when it's not necessary. There is no reason to consider the possibility of extraterrestrial visitors until we find things we cannot explain without them.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    27. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If "they" were to know anything about our civilization, they would know people believe whatever they like, for whatever reasons they have to do so, indifferent to evidence suggesting they do exist or not.

      So these "aliens" could as well walk around naked on the streets. The moment it hit the news, everyone's going to call the witnesses "loonies", the newspaper "a tabloid" (since renowned newspapers wouldn't publish that out of fear of ridicule), and in under 24 hours, some government official would make a public statement saying this is nothing we should worry about.

      Then everyone can get on with their lives thinking "Why would they come to Earth? It makes no sense!", as if reducing everyone else's smarts to our own is a good tactic to understand why they do things.

      It's safer to be skeptic. You can just dismiss any discussion with a tone of irony, without stating absolutely nothing, and still sound smart.

    28. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Paladin144 · · Score: 1
      Personally, I think that your assertion that animals are unintelligent is pretty well shot...

      Not only that, it reflects poorly on the grandparent poster's own intelligence. It's like when someone in a forum tries to insult someone and misspells "idiot" in the process.

      To take a page from Douglass Adams, I think humans would be lucky to make it in the "Top 5 Most Intelligent" on the planet. Elephants, dolphins, cats, parakeets, whales, etc. -- they all seem quite intelligent to me. And they don't have to destroy their ecosystem in a short term orgy of profit-lust in order to survive. Sure, they don't build massive steel structures like we do.... but then again, why would they want to?

      Humans are definitely tops in other categories, though, including Most Powerful and Most Violent.

    29. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by iamstretchypanda · · Score: 1

      But are you certain they won't find it entertaining :]?

    30. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by maxume · · Score: 1

      idoit.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    31. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      My cat is a really interesting case. Not only is he very intelligent, he's also not entirely domestic. He's part bobcat and has the attitude (not to mention the large fangs and striking power) to match.

      His vet thinks that he's gorgeous (he's also part maine coon so he is indeed a very beautiful cat), but quickly decided to let me do all of the animal handling when she saw the weaponry he was packing and was warned about his attitude toward strangers - especially vets (he caused his old vet to get stitches several times because the guy thought he could handle my evil little fuzzball).

      The combination of intelligence, strength, and large teeth makes him quite fun to live with at times lol

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    32. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      What you're exploring has been standardized in the drake equation:
      http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/d rake_equation.html

      Note that I think ne is ridiculous, I would expect that to be a fractional quantity.

      You have to make a slight modification if you want to find out if there are alien visitors in UFOs hanging around (add a couple of extra fractional multipliers).

      The Drake Equation is a load of crap anyway. While it can be reasonably argued that the equation itself is good, so many of the terms are such complete unknown quantities that anything you plug in will by necessity be a wild-ass guess, and likewise the subsequent answer. Yeah, I agree that setting ne at '2' is ridiculous. Of course, setting the terms that come after ne at anything at all and claiming they're accurate is even worse. Frank Drake's a pie-eyed dreamer who had a foregone conclusion to reach.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    33. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      So you're suggesting that all this anal probing is just the aliens version of Candid Camera?

      Hrm....well, it makes more sense than any other explanation I've ever heard....

    34. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      *sigh* there's always one of you around...

      Listen, you define intelligence how you want, and I'll define it how I want. Just keep in mind that even the most developmentally retarded humans are capable of performing feats more impressive than the most intelligent animals. Your pets being able to perform a few tricks really doesn't impress me much. I've worked professionally with dogs, and I've consistently been impressed with some of the things they are capable of doing. What I've come to realize over time is that we tend to project our own standards on to them. We see as a sign of intelligence things that are only the product of conditioning and instinct. And that's wrong. You wuwing your wittle snuggly wuggly won't give it true intelligence, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

    35. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I never said it was. Santa Clause can be proven to not exist because his existence predicts events, and those events have never happened. Its testable as a hypothosis, and can therefore be disproved. Non testable theories can never be disproved. Does that mean the can be proved. again no.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    36. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      You are the most correct. I should have expanded upon my previous post, yours is the logical conclusion. There is a difference between higgs and the time cube, but its not absence of proof.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    37. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would the intelligence of your cat, whatever it is, justify travelling many lightyears to stick something that beeps in his ass?

      I was watching a documentary the other day which pointed out that even though we think we know all about seals, for example, there are species of seal for which we don't even have basic dietary information. Nobody has seen their mating habits or filmed them raising their young because the islands they live on are not in any other way useful for human habitat. Nobody goes there.

      If we haven't gotten around to documenting those seals, why would alien intelligences in a universe packed with life visit us to play stupid tricks?

    38. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen that site before but based on my experience of other sites where people post their UFO experiences every single posting on there is likely to be complete and utter nonsense.

    39. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by StarfishOne · · Score: 1

      And if the weapon that is used to shoot it down is big enough, I'm afraid that in some cases it won't even be an O(bject) anymore.. which reduces the chances to make that "U" and "I"(dentified).

      No wonder it is hard to get some definite proof about this subject ;)

    40. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by proxy318 · · Score: 1

      Santa Clause can be proven to not exist because his existence predicts events, and those events have never happened.
      Wouldn't those events be considered evidence of his existence? That's the same argument as the UFOs - if they exist, there should be some evidence of their existence.
      --
      Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
    41. Re:How many people really believe in these things? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      make a prediction that they will appear on a specific date at a specific time and do a specific thing. You can't. Its not testable at the moment.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  9. seriously? by mastershake_phd · · Score: 1

    IBM is actually seriously interested in this? Is there actually any money to be made? Its not April 1st is it?

    1. Re:seriously? by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

      Well, it's been said that a fool and his money are soon parted... and it occurs to me there's more than enough people who believe in UFO's, angels, haunted houses, etc. Search-engine-wise, it's an untapped market.

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    2. Re:seriously? by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 1

      Probably not that much.
      Unfortunately yes. Not a lot, but far more than what they had invested to simply fine tune a generic search engine.
      I don't think so since I don't see news about gays or pink ponnies here today.

  10. So does this mean... by Bardez · · Score: 0

    ... that goatse and/or tubgirl will be included in their "just plain bizarre" section?

    --
    Perception is the thin dividing line between reality and fiction.
  11. Haha mod parent up by electrosoccertux · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    lol.

  12. Integrated Bullshit Management

  13. ufologist by BigHungryJoe · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm a trained Ufologist and I'm thinking I would NEVER trust a search engine from IBM - that would be like giving me a UFO search engine written by the US gov't. I *KNOW* where the files I need to see are - they are in gov't bldgs at Area 51 and I don't need a search engine to tell me that.

    1. Re:ufologist by susano_otter · · Score: 1

      I *KNOW* where the files I need to see are - they are in gov't bldgs at Area 51

      At what point in your investigation did you become certain the files were at Area 51?
      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    2. Re:ufologist by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      I'm a trained Ufologist

      What exactly is a "trained Ufologist"? As far as I'm aware, there are no degrees or otherwise officially recognized courses that would lend themselves to being referred to as "training" Ufologists. Which means that most Ufologists are of the self-taught persuasion.

      Not that I'd mind being proven wrong. I'm just not aware of such a thing as you describe.
    3. Re:ufologist by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
      So what accredited university has a degree plan in unidentified flying objectologoy?

      I mean, really, wouldn't xenology sound better?

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    4. Re:ufologist by Y-Studios · · Score: 0

      All right Mr."My Favorite Martian" Give me the links to theses files!.....

      --
      Not A Troll!
    5. Re:ufologist by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of the time I was watching a show on Discovery about "lay lines." They were talking to a guy who was the world expert in them, and I could have sworn I had seen him before. Then they showed a clip of him driving a school bus, and it hit me: He drove my bus in elementary school!

      So, really, a "trained ufologist" could be someone who is really interested in their hobby of looking at grainy photographs of saucer-shaped things.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    6. Re:ufologist by Surt · · Score: 1

      The roswell ufo museum and research center offers accreditation as a ufologist. I got mine there.
      http://www.roswellufomuseum.com/

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    7. Re:ufologist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm a trained Ufologist and I'm thinking I would NEVER trust a search engine from IBM"
      Maybe that's just what they want.
  14. Found on google maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    1. Re:Found on google maps by golgoj4 · · Score: 1

      the bigger question is why are those guys looking up?

      --
      -those people who tell you not to take chances, they are all missing what lifes' all about-
    2. Re:Found on google maps by maxume · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't you be?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Found on google maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone mod this up, lol.

      Most bizarre thing I've seen out of Google Maps yet.

      Why the heck is that such a high res - and really why are the people looking up?

      Was it a shot for National Geographic or something?

  15. Simple flame-free answer by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

    Am I the only skeptic or do people actually believe in this ish?
    You're not the only skeptic, and there are people who believe in this "ish."
  16. UFO's, Ghosts . . . Meteor Freaks? by e_armadillo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hmmmmm, a searchable "Wall of Weird", cool.

  17. Well, this accomplished one thing... by zappepcs · · Score: 1

    IBM is sure getting word of mouth advertising out of this for their 'tuned search engine' services.

  18. Correction by ravenspear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    UFOs exist, that is a fact. A UFO is by definition an unidentified flying object. Hundreds of cases of aerial objects that can't be immediately identified have been reliably documented (and by qualified observers).

    What you choose to "believe" or not believe is what UFOs represent. If your position is that it would be irrational to assume these represent alien spacecraft, then the correct statement would be "you always had to be a real "YAHOO!" to believe UFOs were alien spacecraft."

    1. Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a hunch that some "UFOs" aren't flying at all. I'm thinking of mirages at night which allow the viewer to see some campfire, headlights, or whatever beyond the horizon. Seemingly impossible aerial acrobatics by the UFO could be explained by the shifting of the mirage.

    2. Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe some maybe alien spacecraft. An alien by definition "foreigner: a person who comes from a foreign country; someone who does not owe allegiance to your country."

  19. Thank you everyone. by bigwhatever · · Score: 2, Funny

    My faith in humanity is restored, temporarily.

    For the first time in my life, I'm seeing a crowd that doesn't wonder if Egyptian hieroglyphs, crop circles, and the Xbox 360 all have the same origin. (link)

    1. Re: Thank you everyone. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      > For the first time in my life, I'm seeing a crowd that doesn't wonder if Egyptian hieroglyphs, crop circles, and the Xbox 360 all have the same origin.

      Heh, we merely signed the non-disclosure agreement.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  20. Targeting Ghosts 'n Goblins? by Pluvius · · Score: 2, Funny

    Good luck, IBM. I don't think even Blue Gene could beat that video game.

    Rob

    1. Re:Targeting Ghosts 'n Goblins? by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      Ha ha! I did! Wow did my grades drop for that month.....

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  21. OK I give up Re:Found on google maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can someone explain to me why google maps has a high-resolution image that is about the size of a trailer home somewhere in the middle of Chad? This one spot we can almost count the hairs on the camel. But anywhere beyond there we can't see squat for squat.
    Google maps doesn't even have satellite images this high res for my own neighborhood!

  22. or... by caudron · · Score: 1

    you could just go to a reputable source and do your own research:

    http://www.bluebookarchive.org/

    No zombies or esp, just government docs about ufo's.

    Tom Caudron
    http://tom.digitalelite.com/

    --
    -Tom
  23. We already KNOW there are UFOs by shoolz · · Score: 1
    We've seen them:
    • They are (U)nidentified;
    • They are (O)bjects;
    • They (F)ly.

    Who wouldn't agree that people frequently see flying things that they can't identify? Only CRAZY people wouldn't agree.
    1. Re:We already KNOW there are UFOs by Y-Studios · · Score: 0

      I don't agree but, you know it's a conspiracy theory, it's all fake and made up. *Waiting to Get Attack...*

      --
      Not A Troll!
    2. Re:We already KNOW there are UFOs by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > it's all fake and made up.

      NASA begs to differ...
      and so do these government and military witnesses

      Google for:
      - Evidence: The Case For NASA UFO's
      - The Disclosure Project

      --
      Why does C++ still suck with this 'short', 'long long', and 'double' garbage??

    3. Re:We already KNOW there are UFOs by had3z · · Score: 1

      I think you mean (F)lying (U)ndidentified (D)ishes

    4. Re:We already KNOW there are UFOs by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 1

      Well, technically, even that broad term is regulary wrong. A large proportion of UFO sightings are simply funny shapped clouds and/or sunlight reflection/refraction in the atmosphere, so the O and F parts can be wrong. I personnaly propose (U)nidentified (A)thmospheric (P)henomenon instead.

  24. Something needs to to be blamed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when the Christians are raptured

  25. Yea. I could have saved them... by msauve · · Score: 1

    lots of time and expense.

    The work has already been done.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  26. Sorry, no. by GungaDan · · Score: 1

    What you've identified are clearly "U OFs." There is at least one in every state.

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
  27. No more unbelievable than the Big Bang by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    With any belief system, there are always some axioms - weasle words you just have to accept otherwise the system, and thus any framework for discussion/debate, falls down.

    God made the Universe: Ok then, so where did God come from? Well He's always been there... So if God has always been there why can't the Universe have always been there? Nope, God existed before everything else.

    The Universe was created by the Big Bang: OK what was there before the Big Bang (ie. where did all that energy come from)? You can't ask that, because the concept of time is meaningless before the Big Bang.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:No more unbelievable than the Big Bang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With any belief system, there are always some axioms - weasle words you just have to accept otherwise the system, and thus any framework for discussion/debate, falls down.
      Except pragmatism, which pretty much states that the truth a of a set of beliefs can be indicated by its usefulness in helping humans cope with a particular context of life. This system can be applied to bleifs from the scientific to the spiritual, ensuring that if something does fall down as described above, it's no longer useful and you're better off without it.
  28. ohh, look, I can be insightful too! by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Presumably the Flying Spaghetti Monster's appendages are saucer shaped. The idea of many is that these flying saucers are nothing but the ends of his noodly appendages. I don't see why this isn't likely to be the case.

  29. Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...to recap yesterday's stories, thanks to IBMs keen sense of prioritization of providing tools to researchers:
    AIDS has been erradicated,
    Alzheimers is now a thing of the past,
    Global Warming has been brought to a halt,
    clean drinking water is available to everyone world-wide,
    all forms of cancer are treatable with a pill that tastes like skittles,
    Iran and Israel together brought democracy to North Korea,
    ...,
    ...,
    ...,

  30. Paranormal web crawler? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a great, new idea!

    http://paranormal.newsbot.gotdns.org/

  31. Welcome to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Project Big Blue Book!

  32. wow, me too! by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm a scientician with a BS in ufology! We should team up!

    1. Re:wow, me too! by bro1 · · Score: 1

      Yeh! I have a degree in alien flying saucers from the LOLOMFG!! !UNIVERSITY!!!

  33. Re:OK I give up Re:Found on google maps by schnipschnap · · Score: 2, Interesting
    See here

    I recently got DSL ==\^_^/==

  34. Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A use for the wi-fi I installed in my aluminum hat!

  35. Prove that I'm not queen of the purple unicorns! by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    Absence of proof is what all scepticism is based on. When you investigate 9,000 cases of reported UFO sightings, or reported "miracle healers", or "psychics", "fortune tellers", "dowsers", and "honest politicians", and EVERY SINGLE ONE turns out to be a fraud, does it really make sense to believe that case number 9,001 will turn out to be the real deal? Not bloody likely. You, like many other people before you, have raped the phrase "absence of proof is not proof of absence". It absolutely does not apply in the way in which you are attempting to use it. Being a skeptic means demanding proof. Believing things on faith alone is religion, not scepticism.

  36. So, IBM can tell us... by curecollector · · Score: 1

    ...what the queers are doing to the soil?

  37. I just saw something! by popo · · Score: 1


    It was big, blue and incredibly lost.

    --
    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
  38. Search to Try by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

    "The Doctor"

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  39. Simpliest search engine yet... by FirstTimeCaller · · Score: 1

    Just about every result could be resolved with this.

    --
    Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.
  40. Naive by spacemanjupiter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The funny thing is, i see people here that laugh at the subject, when they are really the naive ones. I don't live in a box, or bubble. I welcome change, and i'm not afraid of it. Your bad jokes and unhealthy skepticism do not change the facts. These objects are real, and there needs to be a formal study and open discussion about it in the scientific community. It's not about little men from mars, and many people who lack research skills or the desire to solve the greatest mystery in the history of the human race love to categorize it as such. It's about solving the energy problems that are destroying this planet and thousands of lives each year. It's about learning the true history of this planet and of the nature of the human species. It's about turning the military industrial complex on end, and showing people that technology can also be used to further our species by revolutionizing the medical field and energy grid, instead of creating weapons for taking innocent lives and devising unjustifiable wars that only serve to make the government another dollar, and only serve to set our evolution back even more. You sit and watch CNN and debate over petty political problems, when disclosure of this information would solve many of these childish wars and scandals that you love to hear about on the nightly news. I won't touch on the Fisher Price physics that you learn in your public education systems, and the silly notions of comets with frosty tails and labeling stars as a nuclear furnaces. Wake up and smell the cardboard your life is conveniently packed and secured in. Or maybe you enjoy the security of what that cardboard keeps in, or Out of your life.

    1. Re:Naive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting?

      How can a nutbar statement, as clearly identified by I won't touch on the Fisher Price physics that you learn in your public education systems, and the silly notions of comets with frosty tails and labeling stars as a nuclear furnaces., be interesting? Try [-1 : Tinfoil hat time]

    2. Re: Naive by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      > How can a nutbar statement, as clearly identified by I won't touch on the Fisher Price physics that you learn in your public education systems, and the silly notions of comets with frosty tails and labeling stars as a nuclear furnaces., be interesting?

      I bet you don't even slow down when you drive past a train wreck.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  41. When ya don't know, you look elsewhere by WheelDweller · · Score: 1

    This is going to sound crazy; I'm sure to be marked a "troll" and all that, but the truth...just so you can hear it...is that *almost* all these anomalies are demons. Some are just the unknown, but most are much more.

    Yeah, I know; I felt the same way when I heard the concept. Fairy tales, nonsense and bullshit. I've learned differently.

    I think it was 1996-97 or so, my buddy and I were working late a Lee Lumber. I forget the task at hand, but we'd come downstairs to "the floor" where we could smoke, maybe we had eaten, I don't remember. But I DO remember the sound of a Christmas tree in a cardboard box, being pulled across a tiled floor with dirt on it. Very crisp sound; very genuine. Being the only ones there at 3AM, and being in a the large city of Chicago, we called the police. They brought dogs...I remember learning that night that a German Sheperd CAN, in fact, bite through a commercial-quality doorknob, 'cause he hung there by his tooth, and hole is probably still in that doorknob.

    Hearing sounds like that isn't unusual; it happens, rarely. Eventually I forgot.

    In 2005 I was guarding a bank building, a new one, here in Evansville. Several guys did it, but again, only two people in the building when I heard this noise in a stairwell. I considered steam pipes, thermal expansion, *everything* that could make that noise...the Christmas tree in a cardboard box...but what was making the noise was just above me, on the the other side of the concrete landing. Something made the noise. Repeatedly. And it would quit before I got to it, every time.

    I talked to one of the guys there; most of us were ex-military and such- a good team. Jerry was a Navy surgeon, knew an astronaut...a joy to talk with. He's also a Chaplain now. When I told him about the anomaly, he told me, as if prescribing a way to get barnacles off my boat: "Oh, well the next time you see that, say this: 'In the name of Jesus Christ, I rebuke you!'. I didn't believe it, but it was worth a shot.

    A week or so later I'm in the stairwell again and I hear the noise. I was nervous and trying to THINK the words to say, and the noise stopped. Hmm. Fluke?

    Another week or so, in a similar situation, I remembered the words well enough to say'em. When I did, before the words could echo completely off the walls, the sound stopped. I got chills.

    I got chills because, if this were some "natural" means, like steam, or heat-expansion or whatever, it would have stopped on that second, anyway. But there are 86,400 seconds per day; what are the chances of me doing this twice, at the same time? (86,400x86,400) 7,464,960,000 to 1.

    I asked Jerry why this happened. How can *words* do anything about an anomaly? It turns out that just as angels are here, there are demons, too; neither side can break out into the open, or it violates the test. The "test" is why we know nothing about the day before our birthday- nothing to sway us toward, or away from God. It's gotta be fair. And using His name gets his immediate attention, which is why it's bad to use as an expletive.

    Since then I've seen other demons, figuratively. Idea outside my character, suggestions of things to do, that aren't me. Sure, there's things I like, but there are things I'd NEVER consider, yet the idea pops into my head...very seductive. This is how we'er led into misery.

    So throw your stones, call me an unenlighted bigot homophobe misanthrope...but these things are true. And they exist to distract your attention from the ONE THING THAT MATTERS in this life: finding your way to God. Ever notice how much time people spend chasing UFOs? Ghosts? The Bermuda Triangle? These distractions are called "the occult"- that which distracts from your intended fate.

    Find your way home. That's why we're here. And I hope you do.

    --
    --- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
    1. Re:When ya don't know, you look elsewhere by PhxBlue · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So throw your stones, call me an unenlighted bigot homophobe misanthrope...but these things are true.

      Unenlightened? No. Bigoted? No. Homophobic? No. Misanthropic? No.

      Delusional? Almost certainly, and as equally as the "occult" that you oppose so vehemently.

      I understand that it's a lot easier to turn off the thinking, rational part of your brain and say, "There are demons at work here." It's also throwing away the very same gift of reason that God gave you in the first place. I'm all for chalking something up to "mysteries of the universe," don't get me wrong--but the time for that is after you've exhausted the logical possibilities. Judging from the post you made here, I don't think you've done that.

      For one thing, you never seem to have considered the possibility that you're hearing things. For another, you never gave thought to the possibility that somehow you were creating the noise. Third, you instantly label something "demon" when for all you know it was the Archangel Gabriel.

      People should stay the hell away (no pun intended) from the whole concept of spiritual warfare unless they really know what they're doing. And you don't.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    2. Re:When ya don't know, you look elsewhere by WheelDweller · · Score: 1

      No, as a security guard, taking apart sounds while you're out on rounds is a part of the job. In fact, in the new bank building it was kinda fun. But consider closely the signal content: bristles on the inside of cardboard, dirt under the box, and all this just FEET away in a dead-silent, no one else is here situation. This isn't a distant noise like limbs of a tree brushing against a house; this is sound so close it couldn't be faked by a stereo system.

      I've been a skeptic for 41 years. I've dedicated a good part of my life trying to understand the unknown. Like:

      Ghosts. Why do they only remain when there's a good story to tell? Does rain check before it falls, if the way is clear? No! It's math and physics; the teardrop shape is because of how air and water interact at speed. There's no inheirant intelligence, it just falls. Every living thing dies. So why does it matter if there's a story involved? Either *every* time a death occurs it leaves a ghost, or it *never* does. If the first were true, we'd be shuffling dead members of Napoleon's ranks out of the way to go to the bathroom. It just doesn't happen; it's a distraction.

      No information is ever gathered from ghost watching. If Custer's ghost appeared, you might aske'em about Little BigHorn, but you'd get nothing that wasn't already known about him. It's always some "nobody" that died under peculiar circumstances, perhaps someone important to a king or princess that the history books ignore. It's a blind alley.

      UFOs are similar. Look at the hours over which some people toil in their pursuit. I'm not saying they're out of the question, but if they've travelled 44 light-years to find the planet, why would they need crop-circles to return to a known point? Why huge thunderbirds on the desert floor? Why hide where they can't be confirmed? Do you realize how far they'd have to come to get here? 90% of the stars in the sky are only gas; almost all that remain are insanely cold or insanely hot. A "warp drive" or somesuch would be needed; I don't think they'd have to slip-in among us to learn the language- they could hide a ship and start watching TV. It's another distraction.

      The people around Loch Ness watch Americans with amazement. When people arrive there, they're hoping to see a big snake-or-something. The people that live there know it's a farce...but that doesn't stop them from selling souvineers and grinning at tourists.

      The Bermuda Triangle was debunked a decade or two ago as a land deal. How else could some planes/ships go missing, yet airlines who count on their incomes keep sending planes? It too, is farce.

      But there comes a time when all you know has been eclippsed and the unexplained isn't scary...it's actually beneficial. When you receive salvation, you'll know by three signs:

      1. Answer to prayer. In my case, a prayer that I get taken off the Freshwater Plant duty. The next morning, before my eyes were all the way open, I got a phone call that I was being moved.

      2. A permanent change. I'm a Gemini; I enjoy things for a while, then change to other things. I just don't "do" permanent. But this is a permanent change: instead of turning past the station when I hear a sermon on the radio, I actually tune in. Like someone bringing me a new Sony PS3, I'm hungry to learn more about this information. That's very, very new to me.

      3. "White paranormal". When I was five years old, I tried to hang myself from a tree; I was a troubled kid, with no discernable reason. I've considered suicide hundreds of times, attempted it a handful. But now I have no "bad" days; it's not an option. It just never comes up. I have days with disgust (usually from watching too much TV, etc) but never a "why am I here" day. Never a "why is life so long" day. This, like the rest, is very new.

      But understand that a lot of people bring this news with a goofy, barely understandable "Donny and Marie" style; I'm one of you. A hacker, a guy that needs proof; a guy that works in IT. I just took the intent

      --
      --- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
    3. Re:When ya don't know, you look elsewhere by bigwhatever · · Score: 1

      "Oh, well the next time you see that, say this: 'In the name of Jesus Christ, I rebuke you!'.
      ...
      It turns out that just as angels are here, there are demons, too;
      ...
      And using His name gets his immediate attention, which is why it's bad to use as an expletive.


      Sh*t! There goes my faith in humanity...

    4. Re: When ya don't know, you look elsewhere by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      > > So throw your stones, call me an unenlighted bigot homophobe misanthrope...but these things are true.

      When he puts it that way...

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    5. Re:When ya don't know, you look elsewhere by WheelDweller · · Score: 1

      Well, didn't I *tell* you that you wouldn't believe it? Did you think that one day a sign would show up, telling you these things, pointing the way out?

      The signs are here. Starting with a document that's survived several thousand years, been found on 5-6 continents, and then (with the Dead Sea Scrolls) a copy from 1,000 years later, yet only typo-like issues remain. In it you'll find a very early mention of the shape of sea-going vessels, a guide to happy living, and for those who care to _actually_read_it_ a sense of what God's like.

      The document provided information to the Jews on healthy living; no scavengers (sharks, catfish, pigs) no blood (the cow is almost 100% 'kosher' other than a vein that has to be drained) and all kinds of guidelines that kept their "ignorant" and "backward" race alive from ghetto to ghetto while the rest of use were still peeing in the city streets...without mentioning the word "germ".

      Is there any other document that can make such claims?

      Followup, scorn, disbelieve, whatever you like. It's just my job to share the truth.

      --
      --- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
  42. Sightings on the rise? by YGingras · · Score: 1

    UFO sightings are not on the rise. If you have the opportunity to hang around the right circles, you'll notice that a _lot_ of persons believe they saw UFOs, ghosts and things like that. Sometimes they just want attention but often they really believe it. What has changed is that major news agencies repport those sighting. I think they figured that their credibility is not a stake anymore.

    1. Re:Sightings on the rise? by aadvancedGIR · · Score: 1

      I read an article long ago (sorry, can't remember the source, probably an all audience science magazine) that concluded that if you add UFO sightings to religious/mystical apparitions and divide by local population, the rate is globally constant all over the world since centuries, but at the start of the cold war, religous apparitions dropped in western contries in favor of UFOs, folowwed in the next few decades by the rest of the world.
      The conclusion (and I tend to agree with it) was that a certain proportion of people will see things they don't understand (wether because they are likely to or just by random is another question) and their cultural background, hopes and fears will try to rationalize that, and it dosen't really matter if it is Jesus, Elvis, secret government agency or little grey ones.

  43. Re:Prove that I'm not queen of the purple unicorns by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

    Okay, you seem to have missed the *entire* point of the previous post. You are basing skepticism on the probability of an even occurring. Congratulations, thats what I was suggesting. There has to be a way of separating the higgs boson from the tooth fairy. And absence of proof isn't enough. .

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  44. There is quite a difference by aepervius · · Score: 1

    It is quite apparent that after tagging the wildlife INDEED comes back to normal life. It is quite apparent that so called "abductee" (sic) never return to normal life. So it does not seem comparable. Also for kicker, many of that wild life animals are not able to recognize reflection of themselves, while only a few other can (human and a few apes within that group, and a few mamals). I will not say that it proves that animals are mindless, but it is a big hint on that your argument is not that good.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  45. You made the "jump" by aepervius · · Score: 1

    none of the skeptic will deny that there are indeed unidentified sky phenomenon, looking like objects, and sometimes being objects. What the skeptic deny is that you "believer" make the jump to alien-spacecraft, angel sent from God, flying unicorn or whatever you believe in without evidence whatsoever. Face it what pass as evidence by Ufo=aliens people is laughable at best. We got better photo of faery during the 19th century. Heck that funky hoax of bigfoot get better film and photo. And do not get me started on all the obvious hoax.

    Skeptic also welcome change. But only when there is evidence of it. I would welcome Alien , if there was not so many evidence that no alien intelligent being whatsoever were on earth for the period where I lived and was self-aware. I like sf like many geek. But I will not put blinder on my eyes for the sake of my imagination. Reality take a step over imagination. And do not get me started on the so called abductee : the mind like to play a lot of trick on memory and human are poor at observation (memory : try the various study on memory and recalling event witnessed, and the amplification of thereof; witnessing : try the guorilla basket ball video study).

    As for the rest ofyour appeal to "pity". We are only human. We have fault we have good side. Get over it. No God, No angel, No Alien will come to save us. The saving has to come from inside us. If we can't we will be destroyed or seriously deminished sooner or later. And it will be our own fault. And if we save ourselves it will be our own greatness. I would rather have us responsible for our acts, than babysitted. This is the price of freedom.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  46. Re:Prove that I'm not queen of the purple unicorns by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    There's a difference between "absence of evidence because we haven't looked" and "absence of evidence even though we've spent years looking".

  47. Not crazy at all. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

    I've dealt with a couple of weird and scary situations, too.

    There absolutely are monsters out there. No question.

    Invoking Christ is a help; he's a very positive and helpful being dedicated to helping our world, and he's not the only one. Linking him to religion, however, can be very limiting. He was just a very enlightened fellow and the religion which sprung up around him is rather bent and has its own problems. It has often been used to inflict great misery upon the world. Christ is an entirely service-to-others oriented person, and so it doesn't matter who asks for his help. The fact of the matter is that the church and churchy-people are the ones who most often ask. He'll help anyone, but I'd be surprised if he would endorse much of the limited and downright backwards thinking embodied by the religion started in his name.

    Demons, however, are not 'demons' as such. They are just severely service-to-self oriented beings which live on other planes and which have access to ours for purposes of feeding on our spirit energy. Fear and anxiety are food sources, and so they have a lot of nasty ways to inflict misery.

    Some of them are like wild animals or sharks. Mindless and automatic. Others are very intelligent and are often indeed associated with UFO's.

    Being in the physical plane, we actually have a lot of power over our own immediate lives; an ephemeral being of a lower order (sharks) must either possess a mind, whisper to a mind, or manifest directly, all of which are difficult and energetically taxing. UFO types, by contrast, use technology and organized efforts and thus have a great deal of power. Abductions are possible. Individual ephemeral entities must do their 'thing' through personal means, and in such cases, a healthy, mentally secure person is normally very difficult to overcome. Drugs, fear, greed, exhaustion, depression and low self-esteem lower one's resistance and open up channels to manipulation, but for the most part, this is our reality, and we have a lot of power here one on one. It's the UFO types which cause the big problems which are affecting our world and history; which are making Human culture one giant experiment/feeding ground. --They have the power to pluck you out of time and space and directly tinker with your mind. To them, we are lab rats and we have about as much power to stop them directly as lab rats. Since they function from a vantage point where time as we understand it is a spatial vector, to them any point of our history can be entered and exited at will. Religion and indeed, most of history is a highly manipulated affair. As the 'end of the world' approaches, (from our perspective), they are aiming to make the harvest rich indeed!

    I also know guys in the military. The kind without identities and have the sort of training which most people think only exists in X-Men comics. The top levels of the military are fully aware of how this works, and they're more into population control working for the aliens than anything else. They don't believe there are any other options, or they are selfish types. They have chosen to work against humanity. We see the result of this every day in our world. The current war and the control measures levied upon society are direct results.

    There ARE, however, other options. Since souls do not die, every incarnation is simply an opportunity to learn further through experience. This is an opportunity to further align yourself with the Service-to-others polarity. The more you shine and follow your inner light, the more you tip the scales. This planet, when it changes, is going to be either predominantly self-serving or other-serving. After the shift, all those of the losing side leave. --Like being in a room filled with very negative people when you are a positive person; you feel sick and you need to get out. And vice versa. Same with movies you cannot stand to watch. Each way of existing creates its own harmony, and if you don't fit, you are repelled. Right

  48. Re:Prove that I'm not queen of the purple unicorns by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

    a slim one. Think about our own oceans. We really don't know what happens in the deepest cracks, yet we've been searching for years in the ocean. I think you'd have a difficult time arguing that we've explored more of space than our own oceans.
    Br. But still, you are introducing a concept know as 'probability' into the equation which is a good thing. Its not merely the lack of evidence, but the time spent searching for evidence as well. That is a step in the right direction for the discussion.

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  49. Reasons. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    I think the distinction is that while intelligent, civilization-forming extraterrestrial life may be not only real but abundant on cosmic scales, the likelihood that any intelligent lifeform smart enough to develop an economical method of traveling interstellar distances within a reasonable timeframe would have any desire to come to Earth is exceedingly low. And even if they did, it further stands to reason that they would either interfere with us outright, or be completely undetectable, that any experiments they performed would not be half-assed jobs that left people running around with partial memories chatting about it, and they would certainly not be allied with, much less occasionally overpowered by, the US government/military.

    Unfortunately, none of the logical conclusions you present here have any validity whatsoever given that the starting information is far too fuzzy to offer anything solid enough to start from.

    For example. . .

    the likelihood that any intelligent lifeform smart enough to develop an economical method of traveling interstellar distances within a reasonable timeframe would have any desire to come to Earth is exceedingly low.

    What are you basing this assumption on? Isn't it more likely that if said lifeform exists, and if they are here, then perhaps there is something that they know which you do not? You cannot use your human perspective to assume what an alien life form would think of as reasonable or desirable. In fact, there are many indicators that time and space do not exist in the same way for the UFO aliens as it does for us. A simple factor as that throws off all such assumptions as yours.

    And even if they did, it further stands to reason that they would either interfere with us outright, or be completely undetectable, that any experiments they performed would not be half-assed jobs that left people running around with partial memories chatting about it, and they would certainly not be allied with, much less occasionally overpowered by, the US government/military.

    No, it does not stand to reason. If it is happening as people report, and there are many excellent reasons to believe that it is, then is it not more logical to think that there is something you are overlooking than it is to think that the entirety of the last sixty years of observation and research is mistaken? If you dig enough, you will indeed, find many reasonable answers which will fit into your questions like puzzle pieces.

    You need to research this subject a lot more, because your questions are entirely valid. But that does not mean they do not have answers. They do. --And it's fun to learn what they are! The universe is a far more amazing place than many people realize.


    -FL

    1. Re:Reasons. by morsdeus · · Score: 1

      What are you basing this assumption on? Isn't it more likely that if said lifeform exists, and if they are here, then perhaps there is something that they know which you do not? You cannot use your human perspective to assume what an alien life form would think of as reasonable or desirable. In fact, there are many indicators that time and space do not exist in the same way for the UFO aliens as it does for us. A simple factor as that throws off all such assumptions as yours. While it's an absolutely valid claim that I cannot generalize my motivations to an alien psychology, in the solution space of the possible outcomes of life's evolution and development to a technologically advanced level, basic common strictures like the scarcity of material resources, the difficult of interstellar travel, the evolutionary superiority (or even necessity) of observer-oriented goal systems, and the trend towards maximization of informational 'thought-space' for minimal mass-energy budget is going to have generalized effects for the average civilization. The second major logical fallacy here is that in support of a claim (that UFOs have visited Earth) I should assume that unknown other information exists that these hypothetical aliens know and which would cause them to seek to come to Earth, and that this is a reason to believe in these visitations in the first place! This is both circular and baselessly assumptive.

      No, it does not stand to reason. If it is happening as people report, and there are many excellent reasons to believe that it is, then is it not more logical to think that there is something you are overlooking than it is to think that the entirety of the last sixty years of observation and research is mistaken? If you dig enough, you will indeed, find many reasonable answers which will fit into your questions like puzzle pieces. No, assuming unspecified evidence that I don't have a) exists, and b) proves your claim, is NOT more logical. Look at it like a scientific claim, or a legal case: The vast majority of UFO reports are based solely on unverified eyewitness accounts, frequently by highly unreliable individuals. Those that aren't, or that are based on larger numbers of witnesses, have equally coherent explanations that require fewer assumptive leaps - natural phenomena and military testing, primarily. Ockham's Razor. Moreover, most of the particularly major or famous examples have been shown to be hoaxes. And this doesn't even begin to cover the issue of totally baseless derivative conspiracy theories... Simply put, using a string of unspecified assumptions to conclude from limited evidence of low reliability that lifeforms of unknown origin and evolution used ridiculously advanced technology to travel to a world self-evidently beneath them for unknown reasons or motivations is ludicrous.
  50. Jerking Knees. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    Wow man, it's a good thing you aren't one of those "crazies" that you talk about or you would have posted some bizarre rant about one world government and interdimensional beings instead of this well-thought-out rational discourse.

    Oh. That behavior. How disappointing.

    What were you? The kid in the classroom who was smarter than the other kids because he had a natural bit of IQ which was a shave or two above the rest of the pack, --but who refused to participate along with the other kids and so instead whenever somebody built up the courage to speak, you'd make some disparaging remark to shut him/her down and make the rest of the class laugh? --And all in order to hide your own screaming lack of self-confidence.

    Or is there some other reason you're behaving with such text-book nastiness? There's the age-old natural desire to punish those who dare think anything but group-approved thoughts. (Because the group is never wrong or ignorant.) Is it that simple?

    In any case, ridicule is the hallmark of the ignorant and fearful when they lack an actual argument to deal with something which upsets them. Often they don't even know why something upsets them. They don't bother to question why their knees are jerking.

    It would be a good idea to work on that part of yourself.


    -FL

  51. Alien Invasion Database, eh? by mvea · · Score: 1

    I wonder if that thing can figure out what was flying around over the desert in New Mexico: http://www.omninerd.com/2007/02/25/articles/71

    --
    When you understand your disbelief in other gods, then you will understand my disbelief in yours.
  52. Comfort zones. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

    While it's an absolutely valid claim that I cannot generalize my motivations to an alien psychology, in the solution space of the possible outcomes of life's evolution and development to a technologically advanced level, basic common strictures like the scarcity of material resources, the difficult of interstellar travel, the evolutionary superiority (or even necessity) of observer-oriented goal systems, and the trend towards maximization of informational 'thought-space' for minimal mass-energy budget is going to have generalized effects for the average civilization.

    No. You are doing it again. --You are assuming that alien beings have human limitations, human technology and exist in the same physical reality that we do. You are essentially assuming that you are dealing with humans, or at the most, Star Trek aliens, (humans in costumes). This is a very narrow view of the possibilities available, and indeed, the probable reality. UFO's are almost certainly not nuts and bolts technology, at least not in the sense a human engineer might grasp.

    The second major logical fallacy here is that in support of a claim (that UFOs have visited Earth) I should assume that unknown other information exists that these hypothetical aliens know and which would cause them to seek to come to Earth, and that this is a reason to believe in these visitations in the first place! This is both circular and baselessly assumptive.

    Leave for a moment the question of arguing over what you should believe, (it makes little difference to anybody but you), and look over the logic again. There's no fallacy there. --All I'm saying is that if the alien presence is real then the aliens automatically know more than you do about their motivations in coming here. This is by no means an unreasonable assumption. Just because you can't imagine a reason does not mean there is no reason. In fact, there ARE reasons of which people are aware. You simply do not know what they are because you've limited yourself to your current logical bubble.

    No, assuming unspecified evidence that I don't have a) exists, and b) proves your claim, is NOT more logical. Look at it like a scientific claim, or a legal case: The vast majority of UFO reports are based solely on unverified eyewitness accounts, frequently by highly unreliable individuals. Those that aren't, or that are based on larger numbers of witnesses, have equally coherent explanations that require fewer assumptive leaps - natural phenomena and military testing, primarily. Ockham's Razor. Moreover, most of the particularly major or famous examples have been shown to be hoaxes. And this doesn't even begin to cover the issue of totally baseless derivative conspiracy theories... Simply put, using a string of unspecified assumptions to conclude from limited evidence of low reliability that lifeforms of unknown origin and evolution used ridiculously advanced technology to travel to a world self-evidently beneath them for unknown reasons or motivations is ludicrous.

    You're telling me that you think your opinion trumps sixty years worth of observation and research? I see. The problem is that many, if not all of your factual claims in the above paragraph are false.

    I refer you to Richard Dolan's book which contains, among many things, a series of documented witness accounts. However, when sifting through the available accounts he could include, (using the FIOA), Dolan, thinking much as you do, that he should discount any witness testimony from anybody in the civilian sector. It only deals with sightings made by military officers, pilots/air traffic controlers and police officers, all of whom are generally hired with a thought to their mental stability and reliability as people. They were also the ones who kept documents of their encounters. Secondly, Dolan discarded single-person encounters. All the accounts in his book involve multiple-witness events. --And even

    1. Re:Comfort zones. by morsdeus · · Score: 1

      No. You are doing it again. --You are assuming that alien beings have human limitations, human technology and exist in the same physical reality that we do. You are essentially assuming that you are dealing with humans, or at the most, Star Trek aliens, (humans in costumes). This is a very narrow view of the possibilities available, and indeed, the probable reality. UFO's are almost certainly not nuts and bolts technology, at least not in the sense a human engineer might grasp.

      The conservation of mass-energy is not a 'human limitation.' The evolutionary utility of an observer-oriented goal system is not a 'human limitation.' The tendency of a species composed of such goal systems to seek to maximize the utility of available resources is not a human limitation, and the best way to accomplish this and the problems that entails are subject to the laws of physics, as is the difficulty of interstellar travel. Unless your proposition is that these aliens come not only from outside Earth, but from another universe, and somehow carry the differing laws of their universe with them, there are in fact certain requirements that all occupants of our vacuum are subject to.

      Leave for a moment the question of arguing over what you should believe, (it makes little difference to anybody but you), and look over the logic again. There's no fallacy there. --All I'm saying is that if the alien presence is real then the aliens automatically know more than you do about their motivations in coming here. This is by no means an unreasonable assumption. Just because you can't imagine a reason does not mean there is no reason. In fact, there ARE reasons of which people are aware. You simply do not know what they are because you've limited yourself to your current logical bubble.

      Then tell me it! I'd love to hear it. I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of UFOs-as-aliens; I just don't see it as likely or supported by evidence and known natural law. If you have an answer to the inverse of Fermi's Paradox (not "why haven't they?" but "why should they?") enlighten me.

      Waving Occam around means little. Occam's logical razor is effective in convincing the user of pretty much anything they desire, depending on their starting assumptions. Occam was an 11th century monk who used it to prove the existence of god! His razor does offer some use in the sciences when one needs to come up with general avenues of further exploration, but the key to that is further exploration. No reputable scientist would state boldly what is real and what is not based on a handy (but flimsy) logical rule of thumb.

      You clearly know little of the philosophy of science. Along with Hume's Dictum, Ockham's Razor is one of the two fundamental premises of all science. Now, you may be under the misapprehension that the principle is merely that 'the simplest explanation is usually the best'. Wrong. Most clearly put, it is that "when there are multiple logically coherent and uncontradicted explanations for a set of observations, the one that requires the fewest assumptions is the best."

      Far smarter people than you have studied the problem and have organized the government and military accordingly, (using fear and secrecy and media control methods).

      Ah, well that clears it up. I'm sure you can back that up by proving it, or at the very least pointing me towards some peer-reviewed scientific articles that attempt to prove it. And as far as the government-military conspiracy goes, wow do I love conspiracy theorists. It's so much fun: the government is part of a vast conspiracy, but there's no evidence because, of course, the government conspiracy controls or destroyed it all. So the lack of evidence is proof of the assertion!

      The world is not a court room drama. Nobody owes you proof of anything and your level of awareness is entirely your problem. Considering that your life is being directly affected by the reality around you, it is a healthy idea to pay atte

    2. Re:Comfort zones. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

      Unless your proposition is that these aliens come not only from outside Earth, but from another universe, and somehow carry the differing laws of their universe with them, there are in fact certain requirements that all occupants of our vacuum are subject to.

      Bingo. Except you don't have to leave this universe to live in a reality where the physical laws of higher dimensions apply.

      Then tell me it! I'd love to hear it. I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of UFOs-as-aliens; I just don't see it as likely or supported by evidence and known natural law. If you have an answer to the inverse of Fermi's Paradox (not "why haven't they?" but "why should they?") enlighten me.

      They're here to eat us. Pain and strong negative emotion is food. This is why psychopaths cause harm and chaos. It's why cats play with mice before they kill them. It's why the popular kids torment the unpopular kids. At higher levels of reality, this type of energetic transfer is the main system of feeding. We are a food source and our history has been engineered to create misery and fear. This explanation should satisfy both Fermi's Paradox and the alternative flavor of it which you provide. That is, "They have," and "They're hungry."

      Now, you may be under the misapprehension that the principle is merely that 'the simplest explanation is usually the best'. Wrong. Most clearly put, it is that "when there are multiple logically coherent and uncontradicted explanations for a set of observations, the one that requires the fewest assumptions is the best."

      And the addendum should read: "But said explanation is STILL not automatically the right one given the fact that researchers might be unaware of important factors." --Which means that Occam's razor is merely a semi-useful rule of thumb which is entirely subjective. The problem is that some people have such huge egos that they don't deal well with having their lack of knowledge in some areas pointed out. The philosophy of science isn't so high and mighty or unassailable. If scientists would enjoy their work more and not take themselves so seriously, they wouldn't walk around with such alarming blind spots. I've met some who do and some who don't. As with all matters, there's an art to getting it right.

      Ah, well that clears it up. I'm sure you can back that up by proving it, or at the very least pointing me towards some peer-reviewed scientific articles that attempt to prove it. And as far as the government-military conspiracy goes, wow do I love conspiracy theorists. It's so much fun: the government is part of a vast conspiracy, but there's no evidence because, of course, the government conspiracy controls or destroyed it all. So the lack of evidence is proof of the assertion!

      That's more closed thinking which will prevent you from finding any truth. I wanted to know more and so I went out and found people who had direct contact with a variety of taboo subjects. I've known highly placed political family and highly placed military people. I've seen and experienced truth. Government conspiracy is quite real. And it's not even that well concealed. People simply tend to look the other way when inconsistencies pop up. In the end, though, I can't and won't prove any of the big items here because it's not appropriate or safe or considerate, but I do remain confident in the knowledge I have earned. You can find out the truth for yourself if you get out there and look for yourself. That's the only way you can do it. My word means little and I don't expect you to change your belief systems based on anecdotes, and that's entirely fair. I can't and won't do anything other than trade logical precepts and point you towards interesting ideas and data. Actual proof is your problem, because in the end, if you walk away entirely ignorant it doesn't really matter to me. But it does matter to you.

      You made a positive assertion. Disproving it is not my responsibility, and telling me to go look up evidence t

    3. Re:Comfort zones. by morsdeus · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Except you don't have to leave this universe to live in a reality where the physical laws of higher dimensions apply. Just wondering...do you actually know any physics? Because your meaningless pseudo-scientific quasimystical terminology is really quite entertaining. What are these higher dimensions? Can you describe them mathematically? Is there any theory (in the scientific meaning, not the hypothesis-synonymous one) or evidence to support their existence?

      They're here to eat us. Pain and strong negative emotion is food. This is why psychopaths cause harm and chaos. It's why cats play with mice before they kill them. It's why the popular kids torment the unpopular kids. At higher levels of reality, this type of energetic transfer is the main system of feeding. We are a food source and our history has been engineered to create misery and fear. This explanation should satisfy both Fermi's Paradox and the alternative flavor of it which you provide. That is, "They have," and "They're hungry." Ah. I see. These higher-dimensional beings who don't obey the laws of physics are emotivores that have engineered human development to provide a source of negative vibes to feed on...this is interestingly reminiscent of Scientology. Once again, is this merely wild hypothesizing or is this back up by anything? And can you provide any scientific definition for this "higher reality" and how or why "feeding on pain" is the primary form of sustenance there?

      And the addendum should read: "But said explanation is STILL not automatically the right one given the fact that researchers might be unaware of important factors." --Which means that Occam's razor is merely a semi-useful rule of thumb which is entirely subjective. Yes, and once those other factors are known, they are added to the set of relevant observations, the question is reevaluated, and the new least-assumptive theory is formulated. This is merely the reapplication of the same principle given new evidence. What you can't do is assume the other factors exist with no reason to think so, and use this as a reason to believe that the current theory is false and propose an even wilder, more assumptive theory on the basis of evidence that isn't proven or specified.

      I've known highly placed political family and highly placed military people. I've seen and experienced truth. Government conspiracy is quite real. And it's not even that well concealed. Very true. It's just that, generally, the things that people legitimately believe the government has covered up or been involved with don't require that you support the existence of hyperdimensional sadists from some bizarre hybrid mythos of Lovecraft and L. Ron Hubbard, and are based on some basic rational principles and a modicum of real evidence. For example: The allegation that administration proponents of the Iraq War were motivated by oil deposits and knew that their public justifications of the conflict were false before the actual invasion make perfect sense given available evidence about these individuals and their business entanglements, what records have come to light, and the current political and economic state of foreign relations.

      Don't post? That's not very useful. It's good to encourage others to seek. My signal is just as valid a part of the orchestra as any other. You have more to go on now than you did before. I'll post as I do and as I must. If you don't like it, don't read. But you are reading, which means on some level you are benefitting. My point is that if you wish your position to be considered valid or to accepted by others, you can't expect those who disagree to make your argument for you. You have to make it yourself. Claiming you have evidence but refusing to provide it, instead telling your opponent to seek it out for himself, is similar to the child who claims that he can do something unbelievable, but responds to requests to demonstrate with, "I don't feel like it right now."
  53. Finally...! by Synic · · Score: 1

    ... a way to hone in on appropriate anal probing!

  54. Turtles. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

    Just wondering...do you actually know any physics? Because your meaningless pseudo-scientific quasimystical terminology is really quite entertaining. What are these higher dimensions? Can you describe them mathematically? Is there any theory (in the scientific meaning, not the hypothesis-synonymous one) or evidence to support their existence?

    First of all, you really need to drop the nastiness in your tone. Ridicule is a means of attempting to control another through the attempted application of shame and guilt. It is hardly the embodiment of the scientific mind you appear to champion. While I believe emotions are important, ridicule is for those who do not know how to approach the unknown without fear. It speaks volumes about the perpetrator.

    Secondly, no I am not a scientist. I do, however, have a fairly strong awareness of physics and I always maintain the kind of approach to life which allows me to ask enough of the right questions to understand those who are scientists. But no, I cannot debate in terms of high numbers and formulea. Can you? If I were to present the kind of maths you are requesting, could you make sense of them? In case you can, I can submit this fellow's work. . . I have had the opportunity to converse with him through email on the subject, and I believe him to be, for a variety of reasons, a man of sound mind and high intelligence.

    I can also talk at length about my understanding of how the universe works, but I am not certain it would be much use to you as you would need to have a collection of experiential building blocks which I am assuming you do not have. --That of experiencing energy and spirits and similar to the point where you cannot deny the existence of something 'more' than is covered by conventional, public arena science. The problem is that those who live in closed, safe boxes where only the 'acceptable' experiences are allowed to affect you, (and this is quite possible), the full scope of reality goes unnoticed.

    Ah. I see. These higher-dimensional beings who don't obey the laws of physics are emotivores that have engineered human development to provide a source of negative vibes to feed on...this is interestingly reminiscent of Scientology. Once again, is this merely wild hypothesizing or is this back up by anything? And can you provide any scientific definition for this "higher reality" and how or why "feeding on pain" is the primary form of sustenance there?

    Good lord, I'm no Scientologist! The more you learn about this area of knowledge, the more you realize just how dangerous the Scientology movement is. As per your question, entities channeled from the non-corporeal end of the existence spectrum offer a rich source of information with regard to the whole subject of how reality works beyond our own experience of it. But it is a source closed off to those who refuse to look at or acknowledge such things. Here's a link anyway to one such source, in case you are interested. . . There are several others.

    Yes, and once those other factors are known, they are added to the set of relevant observations, the question is reevaluated, and the new least-assumptive theory is formulated. This is merely the reapplication of the same principle given new evidence. What you can't do is assume the other factors exist with no reason to think so, and use this as a reason to believe that the current theory is false and propose an even wilder, more assumptive theory on the basis of evidence that isn't proven or specified.

    This is wonderful, but many people misuse Occam's razor to shoot down ideas before they have been properly evaluated. "Based on my limited knowledge, Occam's Razor says X is unlikely, therefore I will not bother considering X." But what if X happens to be real? Then ignoran

  55. Potentiality, Not Proof... by morsdeus · · Score: 1

    First of all, you really need to drop the nastiness in your tone. Ridicule is a means of attempting to control another through the attempted application of shame and guilt. It is hardly the embodiment of the scientific mind you appear to champion. While I believe emotions are important, ridicule is for those who do not know how to approach the unknown without fear. It speaks volumes about the perpetrator.

    Hmm. There are people and situations for which/whom that's true, but this really isn't one of them. Rather, it's a result of history - the number of people who have used and believed in pseudoscientific mysticism to blow smoke across a real argument and win, not by rigorous logical and evidential means, but by confusing the issue with semantic smoke and mirrors, is really uncountable in my experience. This is in internet discussion forums, real life, etc. So, you'll forgive me if the time interval before I get fed up has gotten shorter over the years.

    Secondly, no I am not a scientist. I do, however, have a fairly strong awareness of physics and I always maintain the kind of approach to life which allows me to ask enough of the right questions to understand those who are scientists. But no, I cannot debate in terms of high numbers and formulea. Can you? If I were to present the kind of maths you are requesting, could you make sense of them? In case you can, I can submit this fellow's work. . . I have had the opportunity to converse with him through email on the subject, and I believe him to be, for a variety of reasons, a man of sound mind and high intelligence.

    Hmm. I know enough to get through at least some of the abstracts. The concepts are digestible, though most of the detailed math is beyond me. Thanks for the link, though - this is the physics that I really find interesting. But my question is not how this proves that other dimensions (n the scientific meaning of the term) exist, or that there are other universes - I already believe those things. The place I falter is where you jump from 'a theory that explains some questions about the observed universe posits the existence of a limited number of microdimensions' or 'there are multiple coexistent vacua or branes' to 'this universe includes some other "plane" which is inhabited by conscious entities of specific attributes that visit and interact with our "plane" on a regular basis'.

    Good lord, I'm no Scientologist! The more you learn about this area of knowledge, the more you realize just how dangerous the Scientology movement is.

    Heh. Trust me, no belief in the paranormal is necessary to understand that Scientology is a dangerous ideology incorporated into a fraudulent criminal scam that's led to multiple deaths under suspicious circumstances, invented by a late-20th-century scifi writer who died in a gutter while on the run from charges of grand larceny and fraud.

    As per your question, entities channeled from the non-corporeal end of the existence spectrum offer a rich source of information with regard to the whole subject of how reality works beyond our own experience of it. But it is a source closed off to those who refuse to look at or acknowledge such things. Here's a link anyway to one such source, in case you are interested. . . There are several others.

    Interestingly enough, the foreword actually involves a lot of stuff with which I am familiar - chronophysics and general relativity are two major areas of interest. And while I'll be the first to admit that there is nothing precluding the formation of CTCs (closed timelike curves) under extreme gravitational conditions or the effective simulation of superluminal-velocity movement, and that this has enormous implications for the causal structure and origins of the universe, a) these implications are so remote and higher-level that [observable] direct impact upon present-day humans in unlikely, and b) there remains no proof that these things, regardless of their theoretical possibility, actually ex

    1. Re:Potentiality, Not Proof... by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
      Gee, that isn't a prejudicial anecdote or anything...Say instead that instead of an uncle it was another kid, and Kid 1 claimed to have a video game that wasn't supposed to be out yet. Kid 2 asks to see it. Kid 1 refuses, saying that if Kid 2 looks around hard enough, he'll figure out where Kid 1 bought it, when he hasn't even proved that he has the video game in the first place. [sigh] This is really totally pointless. My point is that when you make a claim and expect me to accept it as even valid, much less true, it is not my responsibility to do the proving for you. This is an argument. I'm not going to argue both sides.

      But we're not talking about something comfortable, like video games. We're talking about a very uncomfortable subject which many refuse to explore due to pre-existing bias. My turtle anecdote was 100% prejudicial, as you point out, which was precisely the point I was trying to make.

      Anyway. . . In the end, nothing I can provide for you can be anything more than anecdotal. I can point to papers and other research efforts, but those are also things which you must take on faith at some level, no matter how peer reviewed they may happen to be. In the end, the only proof you have of anything at all, ever, is that which you demonstrate to yourself directly.

      That's what I was saying.

      In any case I feel we've done the best we can for each other in this particular conversation. I must thank you for adopting a civil tone and for being interesting. The sources I've provided offer a wealth of information and links to other sources, all of which taken together can be cross referenced down to a base understanding of reality beyond the orthodox. If you manage to access portions of that reality through direct experience, as many people start to do once their minds begin to focus in that direction, (your focus really does determine your reality; another fundamental mechanic of universe.), you will have at your disposal some fascinating tools which can make it easier to respond intelligently to many of the challenges facing us today. What you do with all of that is up to you.

      Thank-you!


      -FL