Scoble Bites The Hand That Fed Him

An anonymous reader writes "The Times Online points out a post that Robert Scoble, former Microsoft blogger, put up on his site recently. In essence, Scoble has moved 180 degrees from his former blogging tone, saying that 'Microsoft Sucks'. More specifically, he is highly critical of Microsoft's online policy. In Scoble's words: 'Microsoft's Internet execution sucks (on whole). Its search sucks. Its advertising sucks (look at that last post again). If that's in it to win then I don't get it. ... Microsoft isn't going away. Don't get me wrong. They have record profits, record sales, all that. But on the Internet? Come on. This isn't winning. Microsoft: stop the talk. Ship a better search, a better advertising system than Google, a better hosting service than Amazon, a better cross-platform Web development ecosystem than Adobe, and get some services out there that are innovative (where's the video RSS reader? Blog search? Something like Yahoo's Pipes? A real blog service? A way to look up people?) That's how you win.'"

Comments

It's a trap!

[pinky99]

...former MS blogger... How obviuos must it be?

Re:It's a trap!

[TapeCutter]

1. Ex-blogger says MSSucks(TM).

2. MS upgrades from "failing stragegy" to "doomed stragey II".

3. Ex-blogger says "doomed stragey II" has "put Google on notice".

4. Profit!!!

I'm not sure if it's completely obvious, after all - step three is normally expressed as "???".

Re:It's a trap!

[marcello_dl]

In fact it happened something just like that with Paul Thurrott and WGA
Besides, is anybody gonna trust one guy whose name begins with "SCO" anymore? :)

Re:It's a trap!

[Bamafan77]

Emporer Gates: It was I who allowed you to know have Robert Scoble. I assure you we are quite safe here in Redmond from your pathetic little band.

Re:It's a trap!

[Master of Transhuman]

As I've said many times here and elsewhere:

ANYBODY who works for Microsoft who is authorized to talk to the public is a LIAR. (Except the guy last week who said OneCare shouldn't have been released - I'm sure he's unemployed today.)

So Scoble isn't with Microsoft any more. Fine, now he can tell the truth - maybe. There are plenty of shills here at /. and elsewhere who shill for Microsoft without being paid.

The important point was that when he WAS with Microsoft - he was a LIAR.

By definition.

Microsoft does not sell software. It sells LIES.

Re:It's a trap!

[TapeCutter]

"Actually, what's not completely obvious is how you could possibly misspell the word "strategy" - not once, not twice, but three times, in the space of two sentence fragments."

Three times you say, yet the fact that I make spelling mistakes and don't care is somehow non-obvious?

Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Umuri]

When you have the microsoft fanboys and employees complaining or pointing out problems, you have to wonder exactly WHO does microsoft ask for opinions and ideas of why their products aren't doing well?

Monkeys on typewriters?

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[adnonsense]

No doubt it was Microsoft who sponsored this particular piece of research.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Savage-Rabbit]

When you have the microsoft fanboys and employees complaining or pointing out problems, you have to wonder exactly WHO does microsoft ask for opinions and ideas of why their products aren't doing well?

Monkeys on typewriters? Traditionally Microsoft hasn't asked anybody when their products weren't doing well. They simply set about either making life so difficult for any competitor and users of his products that the competitor's market share dwindled down to almost nothing or they simply eliminated the competition altogether which forced the consumers to buy Microsoft products. Whenever they couldn't do either of those two things their products often fail. Microsoft products comparatively rarely seem to enjoy huge success on their own merits. I'll admit that despite all the hullablaloo about the demise of Netscape IE was a better browser than Netscape 4.x. Not that IE was anything to cheer over, somewhere between versions 3 and 4 it simply began to suck less than Netscape did. Of course nowadays IE is pretty much beaten by Firefox and Safari (at least IMHO). The MS Office pack is also a fairly good product, after c.a. Office 97 or so it actually became usable for something more than writing letters and short essays!! Their OS and Server products, however, have generally either sucked or been uninspiring at best and their databases are nothing special. It remains to be seen how they do on the Mobile Phone market with their Windows Mobile where they compete against Mobile Phone OS products like Symbian and Linux, and the digital Music/Media market where they are up against the iPod. MS seems to be doing fairly well on the game console market although they haven't exactly succeeded in assimilating it completely into their collective.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[DrSkwid]

Not that I'm one to wave the MS banner but they did/do have usability labs.

And I'm sure they didn't spend their time watching people struggle to install Dr.Dos.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Technician]

When you have the microsoft fanboys and employees complaining or pointing out problems, you have to wonder exactly WHO does microsoft ask for opinions and ideas of why their products aren't doing well?

I have heard some read Slashdot. If they do, I can toss out a suggestion.. Don't sell the boxed version at an order of magnitude more than the OEM version. My older hardware has been getting upgrades to Linux because the upgrade cycle does not make sense for the software. A $650 PC should not need a Multi-Hundred dollar copy of XP Pro and $400 copy of Office.

After being given a Power Point presentation to show for a guest speaker, the Office 2000 on the Windows 2000 laptop presented the text a page at a time instead of a bullet at a time. Instead of spending lots of money for a software upgrade, I tried the same presentation on the same laptop running Ubuntu with Open Office. It worked like a charm. If MS Office was a $40 upgrade, I may have considered it. Due to the many versions, Professional, Small Office, Standard, & Home and Student, I figured a full upgrade was too expensive when an alternative works fine.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You have new neighbors and they are setting up shop in your back yard. Monopoly pricing and high priced retail versions are on their way to a dead end.

Just for the record, 3 of my older PC's now have Ubuntu. I only get a new version of a MS OS on new hardware. There is no reason to spend big bucks on a software upgrade.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[QRDeNameland]

I don't think those monkeys did nearly as bad as the article suggests. As the article notes:

But after a month, the [six] Sulawesi crested macaques had only succeeded in partially destroying the machine, using it as a lavatory, and mostly typing the letter "s".

The hypothesis is that a million monkeys typing randomly for a million years will eventually produce a work of Shakespeare. After one month with six monkeys, they produced no less than a first draft of "Snakes on a Plane."

Further research is clearly needed.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Xtravar]

They have to make the boxed versions cost so much in order to give the OEMs "deals". It's all part of their strategy... a strategy that nobody likes but works for them.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[sgt_doom]

The year: 2020 A.D.

M$, after years of offshoring jobs to China, suddenly finds that China owns the OS and apps markets......Duuuuhhhh!

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Master of Transhuman]

Microsoft fanboys and employees ARE "monkeys on typewriters". (A few of the posters on Scoble's site have basically told him so.)

Bill Gates is not a man to ask for opinions anyway. When he wants your opinion, he'll GIVE it to you.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Master of Transhuman]

"they did/do have usability labs."

Yeah - they use them to measure how many people use Windows.

That's about it, as far as I can tell, based on Windows usability.

Anybody who complains about Linux usability has never used Windows. I had to learn BOTH of these systems in the last six years and there isn't a penny's worth of difference between them as far as usability. From the limited Mac experience I've had, Macs are only slightly better.

Learning how to use something is NOT "intuitive" and never was. I can't off the top of my head think of ANY product from ANY industry that is "intuitive" (if it has more than an "ON" button). The only EFFECTIVE product I've ever used is the US Army P-38 can opener - and THAT wasn't "intuitive".

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Master of Transhuman]

Reminds me of the recent line:

A computer without a Microsoft OS is like a dog without bricks tied to its head.

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[Drooling Iguana]

All right, enough is enough! I've had it with these motherfucking monkeys on these motherfucking typewriters!

Re:Who does microsoft execs listen to?

[aybiss]

Microsoft doesn't ask anybody for feedback ever. I am and have always been a Windows user. Microsoft doesn't give a flying f*ck about the quality of their software.

That's why they choose to have an OS leave balloon tips permanently obscuring your desktop. It's how they could decide to change the window close functionality on one of five apps shipped together (Excel @ Office). That's why they have no idea what a joke it is to go to microsoft.com in Australia, type in IE6, and get a page in Danish (about IE7 no less). It's why they continue to lose customers' data by having a Server OS that can shut itself down automatically with no warning. It's why you can go to Microsoft update with your Windows ME computer right now and be helpfully informed that Microsoft Update doesn't support Macintosh computers. It's why IE7 tries to recommend changing your system language to En-US when you install, even if it's already En-AU. It's why XP setup disks are the only bootable CDs in the universe to lock your ROM closed, and why all of us wait 5-10 minutes while it loads a whole heap of drivers for hardware we don't have (and pray that it realised you pressed F6 - what, you want to see a result on the screen when you do something?). It's why they still ship Messenger without the ability to f*ck off MSN Today. It's why they still haven't fixed the computer locking up when you put a CD in the drive. It's why Automatic updates asks you EVERY FIVE MINUTES, ALL DAY if you are ready to shut down. It's why there's still no way to control window raising and modal dialogs of badly written software (e.g. Explorer). It's why Windows looking up the duration of that 8GB AVI file every time the mouse passes over it is more important than you being able to drag it around.

Finally, it's the reason that they released Vista without realising the entire IT community was laughing at them. Are you listening yet Microsoft? I run a computer shop and I'm telling my customers to ignore Vista because it is entirely a waste of time for everyone. I inform them that it has no new features, no more programs, no increased security, no improvements in useability, and their faces fall. Then I inform them that it's simply a facelift and that in-fact it's a real pain in the ass to set up with their wLan, and that getting drivers for their RIAD is next to impossible right now. Then their faces get dark. Why? Because you lied to them *AGAIN* Microsoft. I don't know what you've been telling them in the media, but they are VERY disappointed when they hear what Vista really is.

But then if Microsoft stopped to improve their products to the point where they were acceptable for submission as, say, a first year programming assignment, they'd miss out on about 10 years worth of patenting Comp101 algorithms and stomping superior products out of the market.

I should say that there's not a single large software company that will provide support of any real sort with a product they sold to you for full price, so MS is not alone - anyone want to try to get some support out of EA when your game won't run?

And Ballmer's response?

[jkrise]

It appears you are angry and agitated. Here, take this chair!

Re:And Ballmer's response?

[armomurha]

Did you mean: Chairman Ballmer

Re:And Ballmer's response?

[CmdrGravy]

in communist microsoft balls chair back on to you, korea base grits inconsidering !

Re:And Ballmer's response?

[RyoShin]

You have been offered a free chair.
        [Accept] or [Cancel]?

MS Profits on Ignorance

[PO1FL]

Frankly, I think the average consumer is intimidated by a perceived need for serious technical know-how to be able use just about anything other than MS (with the exception of Mac). Others probably aren't even aware of anything other than Microsoft and Mac.

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[linguizic]

Others probably aren't even aware of anything other than Microsoft and Mac.

I think for now that's not an issue. Until I can put Ubuntu on my laptop and have it automagically support my wifi card and the proper screen resolution for my screen I won't be recommending it to the lay. The average user should not have to bother with config files. This being said, I don't recommend Windows either, for now Mac OS X is the best operating system for average use. Though I personally love it, I can see why some people don't, but Windows is not a viable alternative and for the moment Ubuntu isn't either (it hurts me to say that b/c I really do love Ubuntu. Given a few more years development I think it will probably be the best desktop solution).

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[vertinox]

Frankly, I think the average consumer is intimidated by a perceived need for serious technical know-how to be able use just about anything other than MS

Actually, I would argue the average consumer is intimidated by any software regardless of who makes it. Secondly, they most likely really don't know how to use Windows/Office as enough to get by to what they specifically want to do (surf, email, write printed letters).

The only reason most consumers use what software they use is because either:

A.) It came with the computer
B.) It was on the shelf at Best Buy/Stapes/Target/Walmart.
C.) Their relative/friend gave them a "copy"

Seeing that Windows and MS Office apply to all 3 rather easily it is a no brainier to why it is successful. It isn't that people are too familiar with MS products so much that they are unwilling to move on, but rather there is really no need.

Of these three reasons... Only C provides the opportunity for Linux and Open Office if they happen to have a relative/friend who is in the "know".

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[jmvbxx]

Others probably aren't even aware of anything other than Microsoft and Mac. I've been so heavily in Linux for long enough that I forget that there are people out there who don't even know there is an alternative.

I currently live in Colombia and there is no open source down here at all. All of the major universities have Software Engineer programs but they are all based on the entire wack of M$ and other closed-source applications.

People are simply stunned when I demonstrate that I can do the exact same thing for no money and often with greater control over either the process or the end result.

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[Master of Transhuman]

Hmmm...

Colombia...

World's drug capital - and world's Microsoft software adoption capital.

Hmmm...

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[jmvbxx]

*sigh*

NOT the world's drug capital simply the largest producer of one specific drug, cocaine.

The issue of Microsoft adoption is very serious in South America. So far the only countries who have even considered open source are Brazil and Venezuela. Brazil is motivated by the possibility of the $100 laptop and Venezuela is motivated by political reasons and official hatred of all things American (specifically M$).

Open source has a great future here as soon as we are able to get the message out that there is an alternative to M$. The cost factor and the fact that computer hardware here tends to be older and more expensive to replace mean that this entire part of the world can benefit substantially!


FYI, drug use here is almost non-existant. Not at all like a civilized country like Canada where recreational drug use was common place.

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[Master of Transhuman]

I wasn't making the distinction between drug use and drug production, nor which drug. I think most of the US public views Colombia as "the drug capital of the world". Perhaps that's incorrect, but the point was to make a joke at Microsoft's expense about how the free supplying of Windows on prepurchased PCs is the same tactic as a drug dealer offering a free first hit of an addictive drug (which cocaine isn't even technically addictive in the clinical sense.). No offense meant to any Colombian NOT in the drug trade.

Re:MS Profits on Ignorance

[praxis22]

The older I get the more I recognise this as truth.

For a while, as a younger man, I took the offended, "don't bug me" attitude to fillial tech support. These days however, wherever I wind up in the world, If I find myslelf at somebody's house, and they aske me a technical question on finding out what I do for a living, I "fix" thier computer for them. I show them how to use it, I have a pre-written text about what they should and shouldn't know, etc. I install firefox, thunderbird, AV, anti spyware, etc. Tweak the OS, takes me about 5 hours. Then I give them my email address and tell them to contact me if they ever need a hand.

So yeah, I'll take C, "computers" have been good to me, it's the least I can do by way of payback. Ignorance, and not MS, is the real enemy. Most people just want something that works, and that applies equally well to the free stuff as it does to the proprietary.

YMMV

Best said from the outside

[MichaelSmith]

Its the kind of thing people promise themselves and their co-workers they are going to say after they leave. Its good for the people still there, and its good in the long term for any stock you own in your previous employer.

Yes, he is bad mouthing them, but its not like he is posting their private bug database on bittorrent. And Microsoft might be better for it.

Aw poor Scoble

[Timesprout]

Looks like he's spitting the dummy now that he is out of the loop. MS are not a search company, MS dont want to be a search company but as is the way when you are a perceived are the dominant IT player you must be seen to 'compete' with all the 'upstarts' to keep the share holders happy, so your business heads gob off about how stupid the opposition business heads are. I think most people are going to be very surprised when they realise where MS see their future and while they are currently getting slaughtered in many sections of the press over Vista they are quietly laying the ground work for the next phase, which is largely why there has been so little reaction from Redmond to the adverse press.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[Lonewolf666]

MS are not a search company, MS dont want to be a search company but as is the way when you are a perceived are the dominant IT player you must be seen to 'compete' with all the 'upstarts' to keep the share holders happy, so your business heads gob off about how stupid the opposition business heads are.

Even for the dominant player, it does not make sense to try and compete with everyone. And many large corporations in other areas don't (do you see Daimler-Chrysler making extremely cheap cars? or Boeing making little sports planes?). I think this is a case of Microsoft hubris rather than necessity.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[Timesprout]

Even for the dominant player, it does not make sense to try and compete with everyone. And many large corporations in other areas don't (do you see Daimler-Chrysler making extremely cheap cars? or Boeing making little sports planes?). I think this is a case of Microsoft hubris rather than necessity.

You picked a bad example there, Daimler are the luxury arm of Chrysler who are a major brand who feel compelled to compete in several car markets as with Ford, owners of Jaguar and Aston Martin (which they have just sold). While they both produce sports cars to compete in NASCAR and rallying etc, they are not racing companies but their presence on the start line boosts the brand image as a whole. And as for Boeing, they do a lot of subcontracting for the military and NASA. Again not their primary business but a good selling point for the multi billion dollar deals.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[pionzypher]

Are you sure about that?

Seriously, MS still envies google in that area. For all the hot air Ballmer spews about googles' "cute" apps, and how their hire rate is "insane".... MS has lost this round of the search match, they're not able to compete. Look at the emphasis they've put on it. Why pay people to use windows live if you don't care? Microsoft is becoming the one thing that Bill Gates hoped he'd never see.... a lumbering behemoth not dissimilar to the old IBM. They are having diffifulty keeping up with the present, just look at vista for connfirmation. (Disclaimer: I don't mind vista).

But vista brings forth features that I've had in linux for years. gkrellm does a great job as a sidebar, without the resource usage. The latter part of... scratch that.... MOST OF XP's cycle was spent chasing holes and vulnerabilities.

I like vista, and see it being fairly well adoped in a few years time. But it's not a forward looking technology, just as Live Search isn't forward looking. They care, but there isn't much they can do about it besides pay people to use it.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft know that Vista is unspectacular, the licensing revenue will keep them in business until they crap out lungburn. They're quite prepared for Vista to get a cold reception if the marketing blitz for their next release will have more impact. I don't buy that what we see in Microsoft is a company that has gradually lost sight of what its customers actually want; they've always been adversarial. Additionally, Microsoft have held back development of key technologies a decade or more, kill competition and you kill the incentive for innovation.

What we are seeing now is a widespread understanding that it is advantageous for everyone that Microsoft be restrained. We are fortunate that competing products have been slipping through the cracks in Microsoft's armor. These products and Microsoft's lackluster offerings make a stronger case against Microsoft than zealotry and criticism ever did.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[Simon Garlick]

Newsflash: MS shares are in a downhill slide, and the stock has underperformed the market for a DECADE.

The shareholders AREN'T happy.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[kalidasa]

You've got the wrong end of that stick. Daimler bought Chrysler, not the other way around; and now they are desperately trying to find anyone foolish enough to relieve them of the burden.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[cbelle13013]

Ummm.... Chrysler is the profitable division at Mercedes right now, they want to sell because it hurts their national pride that the American "brand" is making money and is more reliable than the last few years of Mercedes Benz vehicles.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[drinkypoo]

Looks like he's spitting the dummy now that he is out of the loop. MS are not a search company

http://www.live.com/?searchonly=true&mkt=en-US

MS dont want to be a search company

• The Battle For Better Search (April 2005)
• New Microsoft Browser Raises Google's Hackles (May 1 2006)
• Microsoft Wants More Search Share (October 27 2006)
• Microsoft puts Live services into the Labs (January 26 2006)

but as is the way when you are a perceived are the dominant IT player you must be seen to 'compete' with all the 'upstarts' to keep the share holders happy

• Online Search Hits All-Time High; Google Dominant
• (March 3 2006)
• Yahoo! gives up quest for search dominance (January 24 2006)
• Does search engine's power threaten Web's independence? (October 31 2002)

so your business heads gob off about how stupid the opposition business heads are.

Right. That's why google has to be "fucking kill"ed instead of just being allowed to die on its own.

I think most people are going to be very surprised when they realise where MS see their future and while they are currently getting slaughtered in many sections of the press over Vista they are quietly laying the ground work for the next phase, which is largely why there has been so little reaction from Redmond to the adverse press.

Vista IS the groundwork for the next phase. Everything Microsoft does is intended to extend their control over the market. Not a surprise, but still true.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[drinkypoo]

But on the other hand Chrysler would have imploded without Mercedes. You can CLEARLY see the Mercedes influence in the full range of full-size Chryslers; especially the 300, the Charger & Challenger, the Magnum, et cetera. They are so eurostyle it's beyond belief. I think they're idiots if they don't find a way to learn from Chrysler. Mercedes vehicles have reached all-time lows in reliability of late.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[Master of Transhuman]

Actually I just read an article where Ballmer says that SHAREPOINT is actually the killer app that they intend to use to retain control over their customers.

It's apparently considered to be more important than Vista at Microsoft. Apparently Microsoft intends to end-run the problem of open document formats by locking their customers into their content MANAGEMENT software. So it doesn't matter if the document format is open if you can't GET AT those documents without going through a Bill Gateskeeper (sorry, couldn't resist).

A reprise of the Word and Excel tactics - but on another level of technology.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[benzapp]

MS has lost this round of the search match, they're not able to compete.

Umm, it's 2007 dude. I've been using google for almost a decade - and you know what? Compared to 1998 and 1999, google today sucks. It's almost worthless. I've tried using Microsoft's search engine, and it really doesn't seem any better or worse.

Spam has killed the internet, and google's search engine is simply based on a tired model. Microsoft and Google have both failed to adapt to a changing world.

But vista brings forth features that I've had in linux for years.

Ahh yes, you're just a linux troll - go have fun with open office.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[jp10558]

Compared to 1998 and 1999, google today sucks. It's almost worthless. I've tried using Microsoft's search engine, and it really doesn't seem any better or worse.

I see this posted all the time, but my experiance doesn't bear it out. The vast majority of the time, Google has what I'm looking for in the first 5 results. It's still good enough that many use it over typing in url's as the I'm feeling lucky search gets them where they want to go.

Ahh yes, you're just a linux troll - go have fun with open office.

Well, how about Vista brings things I've had in *XP* for years - and does many of them worse?

They still aren't competing with ProcessGuard with UAC, they have all the bad(random, frequent pop-ups), and none of the good I can see(rules, check all processes).

Their search is nothing big - Locate + Find and run Robot do as well or better in XP (as I can easily distinguish whether I'm searching executables - well start menu shortcuts for programs - or for files on all my hard drives) and they are free on top of an OS I already have.

Firewall? There are numerous free and pay firewalls that almost everyone with XP already have that provide as much or more than Vista's firewall.

Built in Windows Defender? There are free and pay AS and AV that are better than that(and better than onecare according to AV Comparitives).

As it was with XP, few are going to upgrade - it'll be software that's Vista only that will pull people there or it will be new computer purchases, with the former driving the latter. Of course, unlike 98SE/ME -> XP, there aren't obvious stability increases, or an entirely different kernal - Vista to XP as far as I can tell is like 98SE to 95, there are advancements, but the general underlying OS is the same.

Microsoft's biggest problem here of course, is competing with themselves. For all the people who still prefer 98SE over XP (and there are some, I don't know why), there are likely many more who are perfectly happy with XP and the software suite they've built over it. Finally, while between when 98 came out and XP came out, there were still noticable gains in PC speeds, right around the end days of 98SE for consumers was when we really hit that plateau for basic use - a 633 celeron with 256 MB of RAM is equivelant to the latest greatest for many basic users who do e-mail, surf the web, and play party poker. There's still no reason to upgrade unless the physical hardware dies. Even then, replacing a hard drive is $50 for those machines... We're looking at many 5-8 year old machines that aren't worthless for the home users, more than ever before IMO, and either refreshing the version of windows they're running or keeping it clean of viruses works fine.

Also, for many of these people, the next "upgrade" could be linux, they use webmail, they chat on IM of some sort, and they type some letters. The biggest killers I see are taxes, IDK if Wine runs taxcut/turbotax, but more tax preparation is online now too.

Re:Aw poor Scoble

[pionzypher]

Ahh yes, you're just a linux troll - go have fun with open office. Ahh, speaking of trolls. Go back and read my post. I run vista, and I don't mind it.

It's great that you've been using google for almost a decade. A little telling that you apparently have trouble with it after that long. Might I suggest a book that might help you?

That said, I agree with you about spam killing the internet and search engines in general being in need of something different.
Do me a favor, and at least watch the trolling. I'm not linux evangelist, but let's face it. These are features that are neither completely new or revolutionary.

I don't think they can

[jimicus]

I know this is absolutely begging to be modded Troll, but let's get real for a minute.

The web's been around a few years now. While they were late in recognising it, Microsoft have been taking the Internet seriously since before Google left Stanford University.

IMO, if Microsoft were able to develop "better search than Google.... better hosting than Amazon..." - they'd have done so long ago. As it stands, they can't even implement searching in their own OS (certainly not in XP - even with the Search addon, it's trivially easy to dig out something which returns zero results when it patently shouldn't) - and they've got far more control over that than Google has over the Internet.

Fact is, Microsoft's business plan has never been "build a better OS/office suite/mousetrap". It's been "build one that's good enough and market it as being better". But such marketing doesn't work so well in the Internet age because it's much easier to find out how much truth there is behind it, and AFAICT Microsoft still haven't worked that one out.

Re:I don't think they can

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft have been taking the Internet seriously since before Google left Stanford University.

Have they? I havn't seen much fabled "innovation" coming from Microsoft on the internet. They only take it seriously where it could threaten their traditional revenue streams, not because they have any interesting or innovative ideas that could make the internet a better place. The internet threatened to be an open network that anyone could play on, Microsoft tried to get people to use MSN instead. Netscape threatened to make the web, a killer application, platform-neutral: Microsoft made sure they killed it with Internet Explorer and ActiveX. Standard compliant email servers threatened to make email platform neutral; Microsoft push Exchange and Outlook with gratuitous incompatibilities and a lack of open standards. When Google were just a search engine Microsoft let them be; when Google started to become an on-line application provider, Microsoft suddenly begin to roll out technology to counter the threat to their Office and Windows revenue. Let's not forget the whole early ".NET will revolutionise the entire internet once we work out what it is!" marketing circus that amounted to nothing.

Microsoft talk big, deliver little and focus all their energy on crushing any threat to their income streams.

Re:I don't think they can

[clickclickdrone]

Have they? I havn't seen much fabled "innovation" coming from Microsoft on the internet

Oh, I don't know. They really did turn on a dime and go all out Internet around the time of Win95. In a space of 6 months they went from no Internet to Internet enabling just about every product they had. Taking it seriously wasn't their problem.

What was their problem was 'getting it'. They added 'Internet' but didn't understand what or why so most of it was of no real use to anyone. The fact that they seriously thought they could puish MSN as a better and quite seperate Internet shows how wide of reality they were. I remember trying it out when it first went live - tons of unique content, online magazines, software etc but all quite seperate to the rest of the world. Sort of AOL without access to the Internet. Quite crazy.

Re:I don't think they can

[kripkenstein]

Fact is, Microsoft's business plan has never been "build a better OS/office suite/mousetrap". It's been "build one that's good enough and market it as being better".

More recently, they added the "do everything to maintain the Windows monopoly" strategy. This is in fact why Microsoft cannot "Ship [...] a better cross-platform web development ecosystem than Adobe", as Scoble would suggest they do. Cross-platform? Never.

Cross-platform tools are always created by Microsoft's competitors, not Microsoft. Java is cross-platform, .Net isn't (despite even Mono). Firefox is cross-platform, IE isn't. And so on and so forth.

Scoble suggesting Microsoft do something 'cross-platform' is a sign of ignorance, I would say.

Re:I don't think they can

[rbochan]

...In a space of 6 months they went from no Internet to Internet enabling just about every product they had. Taking it seriously wasn't their problem...

Which partially, if not totally, explains their godawful security track record. "Security" isn't something you can download or bolt-on.

Re:I don't think they can

[jimicus]

More recently, they added the "do everything to maintain the Windows monopoly" strategy.

True. I was talking about historically.

I'm not sure Microsoft are still capable of changing direction quickly. Certainly there's been no evidence of it for some years. Without that ability, I think they'll do what IBM did - start looking more and more likely to render themselves obsolete until sooner or later a new person comes in at the top, makes major changes and reinvents the company. (Actually, I'm rather looking forward to the period just before that happens - I don't think we can truly say we're in it until such time as the Windows monoculture is well and truly dead - as I think it will herald a whole lot more innovation in IT)

Re:I don't think they can

[thejynxed]

As it stands, they can't even implement searching in their own OS (certainly not in XP - even with the Search addon, it's trivially easy to dig out something which returns zero results when it patently shouldn't) There are a few reasons for this:

Their XP search tool (and the search tool add-on), rely heavily on the Indexing Service to be run before the search tool is used (and continuously thereafter).

Another reason is that (in particular) the case with system files and other files deemed "important" by MS, they were attributed with an extra "Secret" flag, that the search tools and indexing service were programmed to skip over/ignore. The same thing happens when you use the Find function in the Registry editor, certain key types won't be found because of the way the searching function was programmed. It also happens from a "Command Line Window" to the "DOS" subsystem. Even if you use the DIR command, it will refuse to show you certain files, even if you remove the hidden flag from every file on the disk.

This was all done intentionally, to supposedly "protect" the end-user from themselves. Heck, if you want something really frustrating, just try removing all of the attribute flags (especially the read-only) flags from the files in the C:\Windows and its subfolders once...always fun to use attrib or even by doing it from the GUI, only to find the OS has automagically reset them back to what they were before you changed them :)

Re:I don't think they can

[jimicus]

I've got a file here which isn't secret, existed before the indexing tool was run and still isn't found after running it.

I know one anecdote isn't data, but please don't imagine I haven't taken account of that. I have.

Re:I don't think they can

[Bogtha]

Microsoft have been taking the Internet seriously since before Google left Stanford University.

Have they? I havn't seen much fabled "innovation" coming from Microsoft on the internet.

For some reason I have yet to fathom, Microsoft as an organisation seem pathologically incapable of bringing innovative products to market. But this applies to every aspect of their business, not just the Internet. That doesn't mean they don't take the Internet seriously. They clearly take the Internet seriously. It's just this disabling mindset Microsoft has that interferes with them actually doing anything innovative. They've thrown money at the Internet, but don't know how to do anything more creative.

For example, they recognised that webmail was going to be huge and bought Hotmail... but then just let it languish until Google gave them new ideas a decade later. What was the biggest user-visible change to Hotmail before GMail arrived? Loads more ads? More downtime when they tried to switch away from FreeBSD? The disastrous single sign-on that they've been pushing for years without success?

Even when Microsoft does actually manage to do something innovative (Internet Explorer 4 "channels" was equivalent to in-browser RSS, something that wasn't replicated by anybody else for years AFAIK), they screw up on execution and it's dismal. Either that or it never makes it out of Microsoft's research department, or is crippled along the way. I even heard a rumour that Clippy was actually useful before the Office team got their hands on it.

Microsoft certainly have enough smart people working for them and enough resources to put out some amazing software and services. I don't know whether the problem is culture, bad management at the very top or what, but the organisation seems unable or unwilling to capitalise on their opportunities (after all, they are making plenty of money with non-innovative crap, why fix what isn't broken?).

Re:I don't think they can

[claybats]

I just installed Office 2007 and MS Desktop Search. The desktop search is worthless. I can find the emails I want from Outlook's internal find, but when I use the Desktop Search with the same terms, it can't find my email. Am I to expect the same lackluster results from their online search engine?

Re:I don't think they can

[Master of Transhuman]

"It's been 'build one that's good enough and market it as being better'."

In other words, as I've been saying, Microsoft does not sell software - they sell LIES.

Absolutely correct.

Its too late

[el_jake]

MS time to market sucks. They are too late, they slept during the bigest internet ekspansion. Its all invented. There last option is to buy there competitors or change focus to operating system development. Even VISTA is late and feels not as smooth as OS X.
There only advantage is the huge amount of customer base, who are using there current platform. I think its over. The MS ship is going down, slowly.

Re:Its too late

[ixnaay]

Its nice to see that the 'hooked on phonics' kids are growing up and posting on slashdot

Re:Its too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Lighten up. English is obviously not this person's native language.

Oh come on

[konijn]

He's not biting. He cares.

Dunno about trap

[Moraelin]

Dunno about trap, or it's just that MS no longer pays him to do PR.

It's funny how a lot of people previously were taking it as the truth, _whole_ truth, and nothing but the truth, just because he's such a hip blogger. I even remember getting modded down and getting some annoyed responses before, when I pointed out that it was his paid job to show the good parts only. "Noo, it must be all spontaneous and 100% the complete uncensored, unbiased picture, because he says so! He's so hip and irreverent that he even bravely told Ballmer to write a memo that's good for PR! He said that MS lets him write whatever he wants, good or bad, so if he doesn't show anything bad, surely nothing bad exists at MS." Not an exact quote, because I'm too lazy to search for the thread right now, but that was the general gist of it.

Now it turns out that when his paycheck no longer depends on MS, he suddenly discovers some bad things about MS too. Who would have imagined that?

So let me just say again, to everoyne: Look folks, do exercise some healthy skepticism when a conflict of interest is _that_ blatant. When people's paychecks depend on the King (or CEO, or whatever) liking what they write, there's rarely even a need to put an explicit "thou shalt present me as the Messiah" clause in their contract. Either they figure it out on their own (like this guy seems to), or natural selection takes care of it.

You can see that from ancient times to the present day. From the Pharaoh's scribes in the Old Kingdom to Pravda (or Faux News) journalists in the 20'th century to paid corporate PR/astroturfing/whatever, the same theme is there: the Pharaoh/Emperor/King/Beloved President/CEO/whatever is nothing short of perfect, and the enemy/competition/etc are a bunch of vampires or sloped-forehead orcs. And that those who didn't figure out that that's what's expected from them, found themselves "restructured" out. (Though, depending on the time and place, that could mean more fun HR personnel management methods, like beaheading, feeding someone to the crocodiles, or putting them at the top of a sharp stake. How's that for upwards mobility in the organization?;)

And that when you're interviewed by the CEO's/president's/etc personal pet PR guy, you put on your best smiling face and proclaim yourself happier than a dog in a cat show. When the guys from Pravda came to Ivan Ivanovich's door, what do you think Ivan said? "Oh, I'm so unhappy under the communist party's rule"? Heh. Most of those interviews weren't scripted either, just everyone knew that it's not like it would even make it to print if they don't say what's expected of them. So what makes anyone think that when Ballmer's personal blogger entered someone's office anything fundamentally different happened?

Briefly, take your infos from less biased sources.

Re:Dunno about trap

[pinky99]

Sure, you're completely right. No doubt. I just wanted to grab some "funny" karma points, but, as i got modded as insightful, this tactics clearly didn't work out...

Re:Dunno about trap

[clickclickdrone]

Maybe I've just had my fill of spindoctoring - especially as I live in the UK and have Blair et al to content with but these days I tend to warm to and give my business to firms who admit they make errors.

If something goes wrong, I don't want it spun to the nth degree to make it look like a good thing or to cover a CEO's back so they can be sure of their bonus. I want it to say what happened and what they're doing to fix it.

While we're at it, most CEO's bonus's are based around them being able to lie and mislead as much as possible - they're petrified of admitting to any sort of failure or error. That is a crazy situation. They should earn it for doing a good job, not their ability to hide a bad one.

Re:Dunno about trap

[blowdart]

Briefly, take your infos from less biased sources.

You're new to slashdot then?

Re:Dunno about trap

[Chanc_Gorkon]

I think the part...."no longer pays him to do PR." kind of makes this a non story. I mean YE FLIPPIN GODS.....he's NOT biting the had that feeds (that fed....FED him). He no longer works for Microsoft. So who gives a rats ass that he says something bad about Microsoft. It's also not the first time! He's been making comments about Vista since it came out (which he still wasn't working for Microsoft then) and the comments have not all been good. So what I want to kno eis why the hell did this story get posted? Because it's going to generate page views on Slashdot. That's it. Hell it got me to post and all of you too.

Re:Dunno about trap

[mgblst]

This sort of thing has been going on for many years. A lot of people to place more trust in an organisation who will admit their errors, but the majority perfer to live blind. That is, they will trust a company that doesn't admit any error, in the blind faith belief that they must have never committed any errors. To think overwise is to admit that companies are human (or at least made of humans), and most people would prefer to not admit that. So it can backfire.

Also, as a pessimist, you end up with companies admitting some small errors, but not the major ones.

Re:Dunno about trap

[linguizic]

I think part of the problem is the culture that has arisen out of branding. Once you create a culture where a company's public image isn't the product but an ideal you have to jump through hoops to maintain that ideal. Take Nike for instance, if they admitted that their shoes cause cuticle cancer then their "Just Do It" brand identity would get re-branded "Just don't it" or some counter brand that's actually clever.

Re:Dunno about trap

[TheoMurpse]

I just wanted to grab some "funny" karma points

I don't think Slashdot's karma system gives karma for "funny" posts, only "insightful" and the like.

Re:Dunno about trap

[sgt_doom]

Exactly so, Good Citizen Moraelin!

The basic fallacy with everything he says is that M$ has never been known as an innovator - nor are they known for ever hiring innovative types. They tends toward the zombie-M$ is the tops!-you have a chip on your shoulder for ever doubting us!-pod people employees. From the first time I was a contractor back in '88 at Redmond campus to the very last time '97 - they have always been the most (well, second only to Boeing) incompetent and inefficient bunch I've ever worked for -- unfortunately, Lockheed Martin (back when they were known as Martin Marietta) was one of the most efficient companies I've ever seen - sad thing to say about the world's largest arms dealer.....

Re:Dunno about trap

[rtb61]

It is interesting because M$ specifically said they were going to use blogs to advertise. What you are now seeing develop is blogvertising churn. Get popular blogger, promise them heaps, pay the little, and basically get them to sell the trust they have developed with their readers to spread your marketing B$.

Once the blogger has achieved their use by date ie. everybody recognises them as a paid shill, dump them and move on.

It is important of course to maintain a few thousand bloggers on tap, to use, abuse and throw away ie. start a competition to draw in bloggers willing to say anything for a 'chance' at some shiny new bling i.e. http://www.itsnotcheating.com.au./ Make no mistake M$ is serious about B$ blogvertising and is specifically targeting the young and inexperienced new comers to replace the trust burnouts (those who every one knows have already sold their credibility).

The one catch with this is, you inevitably create a hoard of hostile bloggers, who will endeavour to regain their sullied reputation upon your rotting carcass.

Hah!

[ilovegeorgebush]

Well done Mr, you've just said what the rest of the IT industry has been saying for years!

In there to 'win'?

[WaZiX]

That's the problem with Microsoft, they are so obsessed with winning that they forgot that in the end, they are a service company, and in a service company you serve your customers, not yourself! Stop wanting to take over existing markets on the Internet and start creating yourselves new Internet markets. About any Internet company I think of that has been successful has brought a new experience to it's customers: eBay, Amazon, Yahoo, Google, Youtube, ... they all had a compelling reason for customers to use their service.

On Internet you need 2 things to be successful, and Idea and money for development/marketing. They definitely have the money, all they need is NEW ideas to use their money on.

Re:No one can describe it

[linuxci]

Yeah, I remember everything at one time was going to be branded .NET. Didn't MSN Messenger become .NET Messenger for a while and now is Windows Live Messenger (but most people still call it MSN). Eventually if Windows Live is a failure you can see that name quietly disappear too.

Microsoft seem king of the pick a lame name and promote it strategy. I think they'd have been better sticking with the established MSN and improving it beyond recognition.

There is not bad PR...?

[ezh]

So what? M$ has realized that not many are willling to read only glorified blog posts about MS products. You have to have some so-called 'rebels'. At the same time, despite all the criticism, it looks that the author still sucks up to M$. In which case the whole thing is nothing more than yet another PR stunt.

What I don't understand in this case is what the hell this post is doing on /. ? You'd better give us some more about how much better Ubuntu is comparing to SuSe and we can have our holy war ourselves. Forget M$, this dying dinosaur...

Re:There is not bad PR...?

[bateleur]

You'd better give us some more about how much better Ubuntu is comparing to SuSe

That's an interesting thing about Microsoft and Google, though, isn't it? After years of Microsoft-vs-Linux and occasional Microsoft-vs-Apple a lot of the geek tribal mindshare now seems to have shifted across to cheering for Google.

I consider myself a Linux fanboi in general, but the more time passes the more I find myself losing interest in OS wars and caring more about applications. Quite frequently I boot my desktop machine into Windows XP and spend the day mostly running Firefox, emacs and Cygwin because it's easier that way than trying to run the occasional Windows-only app on Debian (via Wine or whatever).

So if it's all about applications now it becomes clearer why Google are so popular. Search, mail, maps, documents... a lot of their stuff seems well designed and easy to use. Oh, plus it's cleverly funded so I don't pay anything. Compare with MS Office which is expensive, bloated and often hard to use.

That's never been their plan

[Bert64]

Release better products? Compete on product quality? That's not the Microsoft way...
Do you really think they will spend all that money and effort to produce better products than google/yahoo/etc ?
No, they will leverage their desktop monopoly to push their search. Their search engine may be crap, just like IE is crap, but when 95% of desktop computers sold comes with their search engine as the default, very few people will ever bother looking for anything better.
Aside from that, how will they find something better when the search engine they use is designed to lock customers in?

Re:That's never been their plan

[danpsmith]

Do you really think they will spend all that money and effort to produce better products than google/yahoo/etc ? No, they will leverage their desktop monopoly to push their search. Their search engine may be crap, just like IE is crap, but when 95% of desktop computers sold comes with their search engine as the default, very few people will ever bother looking for anything better.

I was waiting for this quote, I knew someone would say it. And what I want to say is this: that might have worked in the past with IE and everything, but it won't work anymore. I just was sitting in my office, and someone tried a search on an MS engine and couldn't find what they were looking for, immediately someone said, "that's just MS trying to make money, type google up top instead."

Here's a fact most people aren't yet recognizing: people are getting smarter, at least about the internet if not about computers in general. They are starting to change the default search provider, or at least typing in a URL instead of struggling with whatever IE gives them by default.

On the Internet, MS can't compete because it's a me too. It offers nothing someone hasn't seen somewhere else, and by this time they are already used to using those providers. They are used to typing in google.com and using the maps from that site. They aren't going to bother trying to navigate MS's site and find their version. The difference is typing in a URL.

I think this is fundamentally why MS is failing on the Internet. Picking an alternative is too easy, and usually on its own merits, MS products fail because they are inferior or simply par for the course.

MS can't leverage its monopoly to control the Internet, or at least they haven't found a good way yet and it's possible they never will. So everyone wins in that regard.

Re:That's never been their plan

[Bert64]

On the contrary...
MSN is one of the most widely viewed websites in the world, simply because it's the default page for a new windows box. Their search engine may suck, and have market share way behind google of yahoo, but some people still use it and that use is increasing.
MSN messenger is also widely used, despite arriving many years after AOL and Yahoo's offerings. MSN offers nothing new, and yet in many parts of europe appears to be the most widely used messaging system.

About time

[djupedal]

"In Scoble's words: 'Microsoft's Internet execution sucks (on whole)."

MS was a late comer to the internet and little has changed since they came around. In some ways, you'd think MS has simply been waiting for the internet to peak and go away, so they could get back to having the full attention of users when kool-aid time comes around. Scoble's rant is just more evidence that their business model spanks of a rigidity that mimics the tobacco and music industries (resisting change) where respect for the client isn't even considered, much less demonstrated.

Scoble is going to be slapped around with 'what took you so long to wake up and smell the coffee?' retort so much that I'm surprised he choose that particular route for his dump this time. I want to know what is really behind his new attitude...

Re:About time

[MichaelSmith]

I want to know what is really behind his new attitude...

Maybe he has a new employer.

Re:About time

[PopeRatzo]

their business model spanks of a rigidity that mimics the tobacco and music industries (resisting change)

It's only recently that the music industry resisted change. For decades, from sheet music to records to cds, from adults to teenyboppers and back, from live to records to radio to tv, they did just fine. It's only in the Age of the Internet that they've completely shut down.

And the tobacco industry has been one of the most flexible when it comes to maintaining their revenue stream. They're even doing well in the face of nearly universal revilement and smoking bans. Any industry that figures out that putting cartoons on an addictive carcinogen will make sure kids replace their rapidly-dying customers, or that China, South Asia and Africa were going to be much more lucrative than the US ever was cannot be called "rigid".

Both the music industry and big tobacco may be evil in other ways, but they are hardly rigid.

Re:About time

[Lord Ender]

MrCopilot, meet my sig.

Re:About time

[MrCopilot]

Nice to meet you sig.

I think I will let the mod system sort out what it thinks is funny or not.

So far It is funny, says so right at the top there.

You realize you are recursively guilty of the same offense.

All you need to know is

[giafly]

"If you have a technical issue with Microsoft, it's faster to search their database with Google rather than their own search engine" Times Online. Get your act together guys!

Re:All you need to know is

[LM741N]

I agree. I recently tried to search about Vista. Its almost like MS doesn't even care about customer support. So I searched Google and at least got some information.

Re:All you need to know is

[outcast36]

MSDN too. If you are a MS developer, just add "site:msdn.microsoft.com" to your google search. Hurray!!!

Re:All you need to know is

[cerberusss]

This also goes for Wikipedia and many more website, although you're right that it looks kind of funny on MS.

The enemies of ancient egypt were orcs and vampire

[SmallFurryCreature]

The enemies of ancient egypt were orcs and vampires? There you have it gentlemen, the proof that education through games is a bad idea.

What? Wrong story? Oh.

Well, okay, so what you take half a page to say is, "follow the money". Okay got it.

But what you really should say is this. Be doubtfull of a person who disagrees with you but be suspicious as hell when a person agrees with you.

In that light, "just what is your game bud, who is paying you eh!"

Re:No one can describe it

[WaZiX]

Yeah, they should set for one name and develop that, I guess they wanted to tie their web apps more to their desktop apps to give a sense of familiarity... But the worse part is even when they try to completely change their services, they still can't do it right.

Just look at their email. I have windows vista on another partition (for specialized programs that don't run on linux), well, it comes with Windows Mail. They changed their MSN/Hotmail service and you can download your mails on your desktop, great! So it's simple right, just use their new mail product to connect to the hotmail server... well NO! See their new Mail program is not 'Live' branded, so you need to download another Windows Mail, namely Windows Live Mail Desktop to use your hotmail on your desktop. And that new program logs in _before_ you can see your programs. How many mail apps do I need? And why do I have to sign in on MSN to read my other mail accounts?

And once you have installed Windows Live Mail Desktop, well it sets itself as the default program for reading your mails through windows live messenger. Worse part, it doesn't even work well with windows live messenger, since you usually have to delete mails in order for the number of mail notifications to be updated correctly!

All this money invested in locking customers into their live branded parts, such a waste! Instead of pouring money in 2 different programs, pour twice as much money in 1 and just set hotmail to work with pop/imap. Right now Microsoft has 3 completely independent email clients, 3! And none have actually been developed together, how stupid is this?

Pro-MS

[Udo Schmitz]

I think he's fairly pro Microsoft. I mean I am Anti-MS, and when I read this I say: "Yay, go Microsoft! Just go on like that."

Scoble, you missed an important point:

[smittyoneeach]

Mediocrity is the new progress.

You should write for Cobert

[HangingChad]

...business model spanks of a rigidity...

I'm not sure what that means, but I like it anyway. That's right up there with Cobert's "flaccid with anger". Can't wait to be in the middle of a really important high-level meeting and announce some part of the plan "spanks of rigidity."

They'll still be wondering what it means on the plane home. Adding that to my quote tiddler. ---->

Re:Are you implying something?

[Technician]

If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....

Are you implying somehow that Windows isn't broken?

Thanks, I'll be here all week.

I agree, just one comment to add

[someone1234]

Just because his paycheck is no longer coming from M$ he didn't become significantly more reliable. Who knows, he might get paid from elsewhere. Or just writes the crap out of spite. Once compromised, ever compromised.

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[PinkPanther]

Just because his paycheck is no longer coming from M$ he didn't become significantly more reliable.

You aren't paying attention. He's slamming Microsoft now; this makes him 100% reliable...almost saintly in fact (and if you still disagree...please take a moment to look at which site you are currently reading).

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[Danse]

Just because his paycheck is no longer coming from M$ he didn't become significantly more reliable. Who knows, he might get paid from elsewhere. Or just writes the crap out of spite. Once compromised, ever compromised.

How about we just read what he has to say and then decide for ourselves whether his claims hold any water? Would that work too?

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[hobo sapiens]

He's slamming Microsoft now; this makes him 100% reliable

I am sure there are some who feel this way. But there are things that Microsoft does that are just plain laughable. Have you EVER used msn.com? I can do a google search and go to the best result in the time it takes to load msn.com. When I do use msn (in a give-em-one-more-chance mood) it sucks.

Also, Microsoft's web presence is quite horrid. You cannot find ANYTHING on their website, and its dirt slow. I remmeber one time I wanted to download media player 11, went to the site, and had to spend literally three minutes finding the download page. That is an eternity in web terms.

A while ago there was talk about Microsoft not allowing employees to use Google at work. That's what happens when you don't know the competition, you don't even know if there is something better out there. Microsoft probably thinks their search, site, etc are just fine. When I use it, I sit there thinking "they have to know this is bad, right?"

Microsoft makes some damn fine IDEs (Visual Studio and SQL Server tools are great). What they need to do is stick with their strengths. Hire someone else to do your search / site. In the spirit of "if you can't beat em, join em", they should use Google search for their site. You can't be the best at everything. Microsoft needs to realize that.

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[Windowser]

You cannot find ANYTHING on their website, and its dirt slow. I remmeber one time I wanted to download media player 11, went to the site, and had to spend literally three minutes finding the download page.

You just have to know how to use the tool : http://www.google.com/search?q=download+media+play er+11
See ? first answer right there

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[Achromatic1978]

Have you EVER used msn.com? I can do a google search

MSN doesn't do search anymore, it's all Live.

A while ago there was talk about Microsoft not allowing employees to use Google at work.

Not true. You can use Google. Most people in my department (not Live Search) do. It's /discouraged/ (and understandably so), but I walk around and I see people using Firefox, I see people using Gmail, Yahoo mail... and managers not caring (or doing the same), not "not allowed".

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[hobo sapiens]

interesting! A guy I work with has several friends who work at Redmond, and it's also neat to hear his insights into the thinking behind various products.

What exactly is Live? I have been seeing that everywhere. Some kind of indexing service? I know I could read about it, but in a nutshell, what is it?

Not sure which dept you work in, but I have to say if you have anything to do with Office (just upgraded to 2003 at work, and it is fantastic, esp Outlook), or Visual Studio or SQL Server tools, you guys do very good work. As far as databases, in a high traffic environment I think Oracle wins hands down (speed!), but SQL Server's tools are wonderful and Oracle doesn't even come close. Media Player 11 is also very nice. While not a huge Microsoft fan, I do see some pretty good stuff coming from Microsoft these days (we won't go there about the Zune or Vista or IE).

Re:I agree, just one comment to add

[Achromatic1978]

Definitely, there are nice products, and not so nice.

Live is "Windows Web Services" - Hotmail, Maps, Messenger, Search. Search is your garden variety search engine. It's a lot tidier than MS's search offering used to be, at least, but still much younger than other engines.

Me, I work in one of the more "innocuous" areas (though some would have you believe there's no such thing)... I'm a PM in the MSN.com dev team.

Ship more useless web apps!

[sco08y]

Ship a better search, a better advertising system than Google, a better hosting service than Amazon, a better cross-platform Web development ecosystem than Adobe, and get some services out there that are innovative (where's the video RSS reader? Blog search? Something like Yahoo's Pipes? A real blog service? A way to look up people?)

Yeah! More useless web apps! That'll show 'em!

Had to...and it's actually relevant...

[ari wins]

Look folks, do exercise some healthy skepticism when a conflict of interest is _that_ blatant. When people's paychecks depend on the King (or CEO, or whatever) liking what they write, there's rarely even a need to put an explicit "thou shalt present me as the Messiah" clause in their contract. Either they figure it out on their own (like this guy seems to), or natural selection takes care of it. In Soviet Russia, Putin takes care of you!

criticism != biting

[nanosquid]

While some marketing departments may believe that the only good publicity is good publicity, I don't think that's the case. Microsoft's biggest risk is becoming irrelevant, and even being criticized is better than being ignored. Besides, if the criticism is something fairly obvious, it's not like it's going to be news to people who have actually tried the product.

MS should focus on core

[halliburton]

MS should focus on its core competency, which is hardware.
Drop all these other side projects like the search engine, the news site, the OS..
Go back to making great mice, keyboards and joysticks.
They used to be the best, and now that they are sidetracked with all these other projects they are losing focus, and it's starting to show.

Re:MS should focus on core

[nuzak]

> Go back to making great mice, keyboards and joysticks.

That's like saying Lucas should direct more movies like The Empire Strikes Back.

(go look it up on IMDB)

Re:MS should focus on core

[moochfish]

MS should focus on its core competency, which is hardware.
Drop all these other side projects like the search engine, the news site, the OS..
Go back to making great mice, keyboards and joysticks.
They used to be the best, and now that they are sidetracked with all these other projects they are losing focus, and it's starting to show.

Yeah, and Slashdot needs to focus on its core competency too, which is being CmdrTaco's blog.
Drop all these other side projects like news, comments, and job listings.
Go back to making a great blog for CmdrTaco.
It used to be the best, and now that we are sidetracked with all these other projects the site is losing focus, and it's starting to show.

Train Wreck

[jrentona]

The truth is that M$ has pretty muched sucked since 2000. It took them a whopping 5 years for them to get XP working properly.

And Vista/Visual Studio 2005 is pretty much a train wreck for C developers. We used to be able to rely on the development environment. In fact, that area was always a significant innovation for these guys. No more. Fire Steve Embalmer before it is too late.

And the evidence just keeps rolling in:
http://www.microsoftweblog.com/2005/11/05/problems -with-visual-studio-2005/

Udell

[Kuja]

Let's see how Jon Udell behave.

Hah

[Greg_D]

Microsoft didn't make all that money by innovating or being better than their competitors. They made that money by doing a better job of selling their products to their customers.

They still do.

Rikes!

[Greyfox]

Did someone not get their Scobie snack today?

Not Gates vs Ballmer, but Silverburg vs Allchin

[LibertineR]

Longtime current and former Microsofties dont see the problem stemming from Ballmer becoming CEO, they see it as the result of Brad Silverburg losing the internal power struggle with Jim Allchin back in 1997. Silverburg had browser responsibilities and was preaching that Microsoft needed to start transitioning to the web in a much more substantial way, including MS Office.

Allchin convinced upwards that Microsoft needed to keep the jewels propriatary, and he won. Silverburg left, and you can trace Microsoft's decline from that very day. I was not a Silverburg acolyte at the time, in fact, I was on Allchin's side. But clearly, we were wrong in a big way. There was no hint of a Google at that time, and the focus was stabbing Lotus Notes in the heart, kicking AOL to the curb, and those little fuckers at Netscape who said they would bury us.

Hindsight is a bitch. Microsoft should hire Silverburg back, put him in a room with Ozzie, and change the company. The stock has done NOTHING for too long. Ballmer, are you reading this? You know its true, tubby.

About time

[MrCopilot]

You are coming to a sad realization.
Cancel or Allow

Allow

yes, welcome to the ginternet of the future...

[ezh]

with google search, gmail, gmaps, gphone, gspots (wireless ones), gapps we are all heading full ahead to the greatest g of them ever - ginternet.

i, for one, gwelcome our gnew goverlords!

eh, /... what you have turned me into...

Crisis, hunger, and denial

[UnknowingFool]

John Kennedy once said:

When written in Chinese the word, "crisis" is composed to two characters. One represents "danger", and the other represents "opportunity".

Microsoft is in crisis, but they are not willing to acknowledge it. It seems to me that they would rather spin everything so that no one notices it. The last time they had a crisis (being late to the Internet and world wide web) they responded admirably.

But that was a different world. These days their monopolistic practices have been exposed. Competitors are not afraid of them. Microsoft is defending too many fronts, many of which they created (Xbox, Windows CE/Mobile, etc.)

More importantly, Microsoft isn't as lean and hungry as they used to be. They are living off the the wealth of Office and Windows income. However in other areas, they have not produced. Windows and Office are their crutches but if those products start to fail, MS has nothing to fall back upon anymore. As with the release of Vista, it is apparent that they have lost focus of their core products. With Office, Microsoft's problem is that older versions of Office are good enough.

A decade ago, Apple faced a similar situation. Except Apple didn't have reserves MS has today. That forced them to get lean. Whole product lines were cut while the company refocused. They scraped their old OS and developed a new one. Some credit Jobs with getting the company's comeback as he was the driving force behind it. Right now, there is no one at MS that seems is doing that. If the recent relevations from Allchin are true, his managers (Ballmer, Gates) are not focused.

Re:Crisis, hunger, and denial

[Master of Transhuman]

I was told once by a journalist that John Kennedy was known for making up facts in his speeches. He'd rell off some stats he pulled out of his ass if pressed.

In other words, like almost every politician, he was a professional liar.

That he got shot by a bunch of liars who then proceeded to lie about who shot him is, I think, called "irony." (Or maybe "leadony.")

Re:No one can describe it

[Gazzonyx]

It's not just their programs that are like this. Gentlemen, I submit to you, as exhibit 'a', the win32 API. It's slightly backwards compatible with the 16 bit stuff, which is good, because that part of the API is somewhat consistant. Then there is the MFC, ATL, ActiveX, COM, and .NET (for j#, c#, c++, ASP, etc.). Did I mention that .NET is in the third generation in about 5 years? If you're working with databases...well, which version of jet are you using, or which version of the MDAC. Each version seems to drop and add parts.
If you want documentation, they have Technet, MSDN, etc. None of which will actually have the API specs that you are working for, but they will cross reference you to another part of the microsoft website... I've noticed that by the 3rd time or so that you get cross referenced and think you've found exactly what you're looking for, the page isn't found.

My point is this - they just seem to get a Bright Idea and run with it. And it always seems to come out just as soon as we get used to their current offerings and the quirks of them. It's always like trying to hit a randomly moving target that goes 3 ways at once.

I love variety, I think we all do. Choices are nice, but how many changes of theirs require me to spend time learning a new API. I don't mind adding one to my collective knowledge, but usually they're making me learn since they are dropping something and replacing it. Worse yet, as the underlying system constantly shifts, these changes are never really much seen in the operating system itself. It's like looking at a desk and thinking about the quantum fluctuations in the 'foam' underlying it. I can't be the only one angered at this!

Who cares?

[LKM]

Why does anyone listen to this guy? His blog is a poorly-written pamphlet filled with entries that are either obvious, moronic or both. What does he even do? Doees he have some kind of job, other than writing crap about stuff he has no clue about?

Can we just ignore him until he does something of value?

Re:Wanna trade?

[intangible]

You'd take a guy who follows a crazed lunatic over the lunatic? I wonder which is crazier.

Nah; how you really win is ...

[jc42]

Ship a better search, a better advertising system than Google, a better hosting service than Amazon, a better cross-platform Web development ecosystem than Adobe, and get some services out there that are innovative ... That's how you win.

Nah; what you do is sit back and wait for the "smart guys" to develop something new that people seem to want. Then you invest minimal resources in making shoddy ripoff, so that you have resources left over to agressively market your product to the majority of people who can't tell quality from shoddy.

This is how IBM made their billions. Then Bill Gates & Co. took the idea (and a lot of IBM marketing) and ran with it. It worked quite well for both of them. And they've both managed to bankrupt most of their competitors who have the silly idea that quality counts for more than a tiny corner of the market. Yes, there's a market for quality, but it has always been a specialy niche.

Of course, to pull it off, you have to start with enough marketing clout to overwhelm your competitors' marketing efforts. IBM worked their way up, by building quality products until around 1960 or so; then they figured out that as the market leader they no longer needed quality, and switched all their efforts to marketing shoddy products. Microsoft started with an "IBM PC" advertising budget larger than the total budgets of their competitors, and have never had to make a quality product. These days, unless you have a few billion $$$ to spend, you can forget about taking that path.

It'll be interesting to see if a company like google can actually succeed and become a stable mass marketer before Microsoft finds a way to squash them with an inferior knockoff.

Remember this the next time someone says...

[dpbsmith]

..."Sure, I'm paid by X, but it doesn't affect my objectivity."

Re:Remember this the next time someone says...

[Master of Transhuman]

Like this Microsoft guy who's touting his "OS Vulnerability Scorecard" now...

He lasted about five minutes before everybody called him on it, even when he tried to derail the obvious criticism by ADMITTING he was a Microsoft employee.

He's "Yet Another Microsoft LIAR" (YAML).

Doesn't matter, though. They have, what, about 71,553 more working for Bill, last count I Googled.

Not to mention the unpaid shills here at /. and elsewhere, which probably number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

I have to disagree

[OptimusPaul]

I think that Microsoft should just stop trying with anything internet. Just focus on the Operating System. Let Adobe, Google, Amazon and whoever else take care of the applications and the internet. They are doing us all a disservice by even trying.

Not 'biting the hand the fed him'

[I'm Don Giovanni]

Rather than 'biting the hand the fed him', Scoble is leveling harsh public criticism in an attempt to get the company to do better.

Re:Not 'biting the hand the fed him'

[Master of Transhuman]

His time would be better spent whacking his dick with a hammer...

I sure hope they don't win, because...

[aquarian]

I sure hope MS doesn't win, because then we'll all be stuck using products and services that suck -- cluttered, cumbersome, and ugly.

Oblig. Simpsons

[DonServo]

Lisa: Did you know that the Chinese use the same word for crisis as they do for opportunity?
Homer: Yes! Crisitunity!

/offtopic

Where have we seen this before...

[Plekto]

Right... Mid 90s. Apple Computer.

The parallels are shockingly simmilar. The big, bloated behemoth floundering under its own weight. The same reaction - to consolodate power, make things more proprietary, raise prices, and put a new and largely useless and mypoic CEO in charge. Business as usual, despite the looming cliff.

All while the smaller, leaner guys eat them for breakfast.

Right now, all I hear from my IT friends, co-workers, and so on is how XP is a disaster and wondering if there isn't ANY alternative out there. Because the OS isn't the big deal - it's when you have to lay out cold, hard cash to replace half of your PC that it is.

Or better yet...don't win at everything!

[billmaly]

I'd like to see MS just make software. Strong, reliable OS's and apps' that run well on all PC's and function well with legacy apps. OK, now stop your chortling. Instead, MS focuses on trying to win at everything, and they usually start out WAY behind. The two most glaring examples that come to mind are IE (back when Netscape had already established itself as THE leader) and Zune, when the IPod had already totally OWNED the portable music player market. I'm sure there are others, but that's what comes to mind ATM. I'd like to see MS stop trying to win EVERY race, and just focus on the one's it know's already.

Re:Not Microsofts Fault

[Achromatic1978]

True! There's so much competition, these days they've gotta beat Google and Yahoo to the buy-out! Innovation? What's that, but something for those with the smaller checkbooks.

Re:No one can describe it

[Master of Transhuman]

Old news. How many times did they rename and rebrand their object broker technology - about five times, maybe?

Microsoft is run by marketing idiots - other than the one greedy bastard at the top. It's that simple.

Sure, you can find a bunch of (supposedly) "smart" programmers somewhere in the bowels of the organization. Somebody has to write the code - no matter how crappy, unreliable, and insecure the whole thing ends up being, most of the individual parts are probably more or less well-written as proprietary code goes.

But they're really irrelevant to what Microsoft IS. Microsoft is a marketing company run by an asshole.

Nothing matters to Bill Gates and the rest of Microsoft management except how to sell LIES.

'Nuff said.

Re:No one can describe it

[Master of Transhuman]

"Microsoft are the McDonalds of software"

I LIKE that one!

"and consumers are learning to eat more healthily."

That I'm not so sure of - yet anyway. If it does happen, it will probably only be because people get tired of paying seven bucks for a Big Mac when they can get an Arby's roast beef sandwich for the same price (i.e., buy a REAL Mac). Or better yet, get a Caesar salad for nothing (Linux) and start losing weight.

Re:No one can describe it

[Master of Transhuman]

Excellent points which also refute the notion that Linux is the only place where things change so rapidly that developers can't keep up.

Back in the day (early '80's), I used to look at Microsoft language offerings like their early COBOL compiler. I used to think that Gates would lie awake nights listing all the things in the COBOL standard that WOULDN'T be supported - and anything left was what the compiler turned out to be. Compared to products like Ryan-Mcfarland and others, the Microsoft language products were ALWAYS more limited in capability.

It makes sense that they run with "Bright Ideas" if you think of Microsoft as a MARKETING company rather than a TECHNOLOGY company. They don't care if the "Bright Ideas" are either feasible or useful as long as they can be MARKETED. A half-baked technology can be sold to naive buyers like CEOs and CIOs (let alone consumers) as easily as a fully developed technology and more easily than a fully thought through technology can be sold to technology people.

Re:You have to be kidding me

[Master of Transhuman]

"I am a Linux Zealot. But I also use Vista and have a Zune. Am I sort of some kind of schitzo?"

No, you're a Microsoft shill POSING as a Linux zealot.

Jesus, wonder when these guys are going to get a clue and DROP THAT STUPID LINE ABOUT LIKING LINUX! It's a dead giveaway that you're a Microsoft shill!

I mean, really! It's like Secret Service guys showing up at hacker conferences in suits with dark glasses and earpieces in their ears.

REAL Linux users heavily criticize their (and competing) distros AND Microsoft. Windows shills don't. REAL Linux users don't spend time SAYING they like Linux, they DEMONSTRATE that they USE Linux. It's that simple.

It's simply a dead giveaway that you're a shill to start babbling how much you like Linux before defending Microsoft or bashing Linux. I mean, can't you guys get a different script from the Microsoft PR department?

You haven't bought Vista yet have you...

[msimm]

I agree with your comment, in general. But Vista feels like a pre-release operating system. That's their flag-ship product. I'm sure they will make it work (hey, it's bundled with pretty much any new PC) but with the requirements I'd expected something a little more...coherent, maybe even something that made me think wow a little. Using it has not been a pleasure.

And Office. What is the reason I should want to upgrade?

Should I even mention Zune?

I'm not actually trying to bag on them. It just seems like there's a pattern and it's lack of focus.

P-38

[KwKSilver]

Loved that P-38. Had one on my keychain from the early 70s to early 90s, when I lost the last one I had. Pian in the ... fingers for really large cans, but like yo said, effective.... You are dead-right about intuitive, too, the only really intuitive behaviours are eating, drinking, and sex, cuz if they aren't ... the gene-chain stops dead. You should have been modded up. Thanks for the jog down Memory Lane.

Re:P-38

[Master of Transhuman]

Amazing how many guys carry one or used to. I went into the San Francisco Federal Building a couple weeks ago, and had to hand over my P-38 to be held while I was in the building since they detected it in my wallet! One of the security people was commenting how he used to carry one for years - except he had to put it somewhere other than his keychain since it kept digging into him. I carry mine in my coin purse.

Like I tell the Feds (when I go into the building with my briefcase which has a knife and fork in it which have to be surrendered - but they never ask for the spoon!), "You never know when you might run into food."

You can buy 'em in Army surplus stores for 50 cents to a dollar.

Begs the question.

[twitter]

The only reason most consumers use what software they use is because either: A.) It came with the computer B.) It was on the shelf at Best Buy/Stapes/Target/Walmart. C.) Their relative/friend gave them a "copy" Seeing that Windows and MS Office apply to all 3 rather easily it is a no brainier to why it is successful.

Yes, but the real question is why nothing else comes with the computer or is on the shelf at Walmart.

The answer is anticompetitive pressure that's at a breaking point. The "record proffits" Scoble talks about are getting harder to maintain, especially as hardware prices drop. The potential difference in performace for the user and profits for the vendor is large and growing. One of the most interesting things from the Iowa consumer case is that people at M$ thought gnu/linux was in Dells best interest as they were busy planning to whack them. You can't keep vendors and users from persuing their best interests forever.

Six years and counting, it's not going to happen.

[twitter]

they are currently getting slaughtered in many sections of the press over Vista they are quietly laying the ground work for the next phase, which is largely why there has been so little reaction from Redmond to the adverse press.

No reaction, discounting present company of course.

Do you really think they have been "laying the groundwork" for six years and it's not in Vista? How many times are you going to accept their usual line, "this version sucks but the next one will have everything our competitors have but much better"?

Did you consider the fact that it's difficult to answer so many obvious failings? Vista, Office, Xbox, Zune, net services have all taken a justified beating and are all outclassed by their competition. They got so greedy in so many directions all at once that they ended up with a mass of "trip bits" and other stuff that does not work - nowhere.

The only thing remotely correct in your impassioned defense and refutation of this negative press is surprise. I will be very surprised if they pull a rabbit out of the hat at anytime in the next five years.

What do you expect?

[twitter]

Its nice to see that the 'hooked on phonics' kids are growing up and posting on slashdot

It's not their fault IE does not do spell checking.

Give him credit for being right. If M$ is unable to compete with the OS that they've been developing for six years, they will never be competitive. It's over for them.