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MS Says Vista Selling At Twice XP's Pace
Several readers made us aware that Microsoft said today that it sold more than 20 million Windows Vista licenses in the first month after the OS's general debut on January 30. This compares to 17 million licenses of XP sold in the first two months after its release. (Just a coincidence the announcement came out a day after this community's speculation, surely.) Most of the coverage of this story, picked up from Reuters, looks like it follows an MS press release. The Associated Press dug deeper, noting that since XP's release the overall PC market has grown by almost a factor of 2, so it would be a surprise if Vista didn't do twice as well: "...51 million PCs were sold to consumers worldwide in 2002; this year... 96 million consumers will buy a computer." Also, Microsoft's 20 million figure includes the backlog of upgrade coupons bundled with XP computers sold since last October.
But given that the personal computer market has nearly doubled since XP launched, Vista sales "probably should be more," said Michael Silver, vice president of research at Gartner, a technology research group.
In summary: computer sales up; consumers forced to adopt Vista. Microsoft chuckles gleefully.
I'm surprised this was modded "interesting", given that the answer is in the freaking article summary.
MS Says Vista Selling At Twice XP's Price
There. Fixed that for you.
Of course they are! People are fed up with cleaning spyware off their machines, to the point of buying a new one when the old one crashes. It's only in the very recent past (actually, mostly within XP's lifetime) that spyware's become such a menace, after all.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
I'm willing to bet that they're counting all the upgrade coupons as "sales" as well.
Like how they count their MS CRM software.
Basically anyone who has an Action Pack is counted as an MS CRM user.
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Well we Had 95, 98 (in 1995, 1998 respectfully) 2000 / ME in 1999,2000 or so. Then XP in 2001, Then Vista in 2007. Well I would expect that people would be wanting a new version. People with 2000 or ME are at a point now they really need an upgrade. With 95 and 98 no longer supported people may be looking for a new version now.
When XP was released People had Windows 2000 and to a lesser extent ME that is good enough. So no need to upgrade. But with the long time for upgrades people with XP when they got a system in 2001 are now due for an upgrade.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The big sell is to MS shareholders. Somehow MS must convince the shareholders that the $5bn spent on Vista is going to be a worthwhile investment.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
The 2007 Toyota Camry is outselling the 2001 Toyota Camry. Film at 11.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
If Windows sales have doubled because the PC market has doubled. Should Linux and Mac sales have also doubled?
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Two brand new Dell Dimension Workstations ($1200 each) came into our office last week. One remimaged to XP (SP2) because office user said Vista (Pro) was slower than crap. The other was regulated to the lab for dual-boot Redhat/SuSE client testing. Vista wiped clean off it.
What Microsofts Marketing Machine states and what users do are two different things.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
I've been looking to buy a desktop with an AMD Athlon X2 5000+ and 2 gigs or RAM. It seems I can buy one with Vista much cheaper than I can (still) find one with XP Pro.
So Microsoft isn't quoting figures for sales spanning two months, but rather for more than five months, including at least three months of "pre-sales" in the form of coupons which likely may never be redeemed. If the coupon is never redeemed, then it can't be counted as a Vista sale, since Vista was never installed.
More FUD from the masters. Which frankly doesn't surprise me. Without apps irrevocably tied to Vista, there's no impetus to "upgrade," and people will stay with XP. Microsoft is clearly desperate to make Vista appear to have a larger installed base than it does so that ISVs will commit to it.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Of course they are selling more. If you want XP with a new system from one of the PC manufacturers like DELL, it will cost you $79 for XP or you can have VISTA for FREE!
I don't know anyone in my circle that has purchased VISTA. Personally, I am holding off for about (3) years until all the DRM and hardware issues are all worked out. I can't see any compelling reason to move to VISTA and if I do buy a new system with it pre-loaded for FREE, I will move that system to dual boot Linux/XP.
I have read that msft is forcing vendors to buy lots of licenses in advance.
> In summary: computer sales up; consumers forced to adopt Vista. Microsoft chuckles gleefully.
[RANT SIZE="VERY LONG"]
Well, at least one of the people I know was actually waiting for Vista to come out (against my advice... but his old computer was Windows ME, so he may be a Microsoft masochist). Of course, he promptly had me out there attempting to fix it because, although it was brand new, it didn't work very well. A few things were just a matter of moving things around: the start menu search is nice, mostly because everything in it was shuffled around for the sake of change--MS Word's "that logo in the upper left is your new File menu" was the stupidest and most confusing change, though. Given that the logo used to be a menu with options like restore, minimize, and close it's not the first place you'd expect to find things like save or open; I finally found it only by process of elimination after looking through most of the other tabs.
And a helpful bit of advice: do NOT use Vista if you want to use a TV tuner. They don't seem to work. DRM? Drivers? I'm not totally sure, but I am convinced that it's an utter waste of time to talk with Bangalore about it (all of Dell's Vista support seems to be in India, the reps transfer you to India immediately, we were unable to get a rep who could speak intelligible English, but worked with them reinstalling useless drivers for a couple of hours, anyhow).
Thus far, I know of no one who has gotten a TV tuner working properly under Vista, so I'm inclined to blame the DRM given that these are brand new Dells and the recordings seem to have the audio downsampled to painful-to-listen-to bitrates (it sounded like they were talking over SSB radio, if that helps any, maybe it just puts the audio through a tight bandpass filter?). Whatever it was doing, we were told a few weeks ago that they'd "contact us if they found a solution." I'm not holding my breath.
Oh, and if you're wondering where the obligatory UAC Allow/Cancel joke is, they're not funny after you've used the stupid thing for 10 minutes. They really, really piss you off in no time flat.
Free bit of advice, if anyone asks you to fix their Vista system: echo y | format c:
Trust me, you're doing them a favor. It's that painful to use.
[/RANT]
- A Very, Very Bitter Techie
I am looking to buy a MS-based computer for development (I normally use Linux). I'm looking for an XP computer, not a Vista one. The reason: The Microsoft software I want to run does not run on Vista, only on XP!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I guarantee you that this was planned, and they are stuffing their product chain to provide these numbers. Basically for anyone who does not understand the process, it simply means that when they stock vendors, they are counting these items as "sold". This is a very common tactic, and was exactly what they did with the Zune... Meaning they have a history of using this manipulation tactic...
:-)
Seeing as they did not say they were NOT doing this, I can assure you that they are. Dont believe me? Well, lets see when their quarterly report comes out... I will bet almost anything that it will be uneventful...
You were obviously dumb enough not to get a refund on Vista (or exchange its license for XP), so to the bean counters, they've made two sales on you. And it gets better, because they will save on the support costs for your Redhat machine.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
My Dad's new 'Vista-Ready' machine came with XP, and we're KEEPING it on XP precisely because this this thing is a graphical dream on it. It's got an nVidia card, sweet processors, ability to support two 22" widescreen monitors... all for under $1000, because it's 'merely' an XP machine, albeit a Vista-capable one.
If this is their idea of 'Vista-Capable', why would I want to go to an operating system where these awesome specs are merely ADEQUATE?
Not all new PCs are capable of running Vista with anything even remotely close to decent performance.
:)
A couple of weeks ago I got my mum a fairly low-end notebook (1.73GHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB HD). Since she's not exactly much of a power user and only wanted to browse the web, extract pics from her camera and occasionally check her email, her needs were easy to satisfy with a cheaper computer. Only problem was, this notebook (like EVERY SINGLE ONE in the store) was pre-installed with Vista. I figured, hey, if they're running Vista on a brand-new PC then surely the manufacturer had chosen a decent configuration to ensure decent performance. Damn I was so naive.
It was slow to boot, slow to shutdown/hibernate, slow to run programs on, full of useless pre-installed crap (e.g. Norton with 30-day subscription). After Vista did some weird shit that caused this new PC to hang with massive non-stop disk accessing, I decided to blow Vista entirely away and stick an old copy of XP with Service Pack 2 on instead. Now, the system is faster to start, faster to shutdown/hibernate, faster to launch software, it has only the software it needs with no crap lying around after an uninstall, much more responsive, plus I freed about 8 GB of a hidden recovery partition. All in all, it was a win for us with absolutely no disadvantages and a shitload of positives. In the future I might even be tempted to install Ubuntu instead, but I won't push my luck just yet.
This shouldn't be particularly surprising I suppose, but I mention it because I was totally shocked how quickly and ruthlessly the manufacturers were in totally abandoning a perfectly-working OS like XP, and sticking Vista as their default setup on hardware that shouldn't have been running it to begin with. It really astounded me just how useful the system was... *without* Vista.
Can it open ODF, Lotus, WordPerfect, etc. formats natively within its own OS or office applications?
Does it support writing to PDF natively?
Can it natively play all of my media audio and video formats, including FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Theora and others?
Does it support onboard IM clients using standards-compliant protocols (Jabber? irc? Others?)
Can I use freely available tools to build software on it, and do those tools come with the OS itself?
Can I read multiple filesystems at the same time on multiple different external and internal media? Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X and other filesystems?
Can I mount NFS shares to other non-Vista resources with existing, included applications/tools?
Remind me again what Vista does that my Linux box can't? Oh wait... purty jellybean graphics and melted-crayon menus and icons. Right.
No thanks, Linux does more, on less resources, at less cost, and is more extensible, secure and updates are MUCH easier to manage.. oh, and I KNOW what's running under the covers, and if I don't, I can go look and see for myself.
If you buy Vista Business, or Ultimate - you have downgrade rights to install XP Pro... This is what I am doing at my office. Every new PC that comes in with Vista - wiped and XP installed. Call up MS licensing, and they generate a key for you when you tell them you are downgrading. Perfectly legal and in the eula. This way, when we finally HAVE to go to vista, the licenses are ready and waiting, since the PCs came with them.
The above comments are not guaranteed to make sense to anyone other than the author...
I bought a Toshiba laptop late November, which came with XP on it, with a free upgrade to Vista (with $25 for shipping).
The disk was immediately resized, and Kubuntu 6.10 Edgy Eft was installed on it. Windows XP was never even booted, but kept there "just in case it is needed".
For the free upgrade, I did all the paperwork for it, paid the shipping fee, and have not received it yet. I don't intend to boot it either, but I ordered it "just in case".
So, I am counted as an XP user and a Vista user, while I am neither.
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Dontcha think thats because its now being shipped on 90% of windows boxes now instead of XP ? And that you cant really buy XP off the shelf anymore ? Gee got to love the spin doctors. Comeon everybody lets jump on the bandwagon and all go buy vista !!!
"When they invent bitch slaps that can go through a monitor you better f'ing duck" --deft (253558)
Nah, consumers have already rationalised their purchase of Vista. Even XP-loyal geeks have downgraded their opinion to "I guess it has some features I'd like on XP" and are seriously considering upgrading.
If by "consumer" you mean big box store shelf, you are correct. I'm not sure anyone with an IQ better than a shelf is really thinking like M$ wishes they were thinking, especially when they can't rationally name any real features. As people also noted M$ is stuffing the channels to make it look like anyone is buying Vista. They are not, any more than they are buying Zune.
Hasta la Vista M$!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Vista release date Nov 8, 2006: XP release date Oct 25, 2001:
Vista at < 0.5% Dec 2006 XP at 4%, Nov 2001
Vista at 0.6% Jan 2007 XP at 6.5%, Dec 2001
Vista at 1.2% Feb 2007 XP at 9%, Jan 2002
Can't wait till the Q1 SEC reports come out, ouch!
sources:
Google zeitgeist, w3schools, wikipedia
In other words, they would not be in the market for OSX or Linux.
Vista has not really increased MS revenues. MS must convince the shareholders that the $5bn spent on Vista is going to be a worthwhile investment
Microsoft, debt-free, and with quarterly revenues of $14 billion dollars can afford to take the long view - and the short-term hit from the free upgrade coupons still around for Vista.
"What's important to us from an investment standpoint is that Microsoft has entrenched one of its most important businesses for an additional few years, and that virtually every new computer sold on the planet going forward will have Vista pre-installed on it." Finding Value In Microsoft
It certainly is exaggerated and is being used for stock speculation. They are telling the world they are selling twice as good to get that stock up. It'll go up and then fall back down as the real numbers rear their heads. I've done my part and continue to do so in telling customers about the spying and the other DRM/CRM implemented into Vista and how Microsoft is now hostile towards its customers. I describe it as an example with Walmart entering your home to search your belongings to ensure that you have not stolen anything from their store. Most people understand that their computer is an extension of their homes and that they certainly would not let the government enter without warrant and when I then tell them that they would certainly not allow a private entity to enter they agree wholeheartedly.
Sheesh, what does it take to understand that Microsoft is doing the equivalent of searching your home when they enter your computer and search. No, they don't have the right to enter my computer or home to search for any reason. If they feel I have stolen from them let them hit the courts and sue/arrest me. They'll find I am above board. But the sentiment stays. Hit the courts and do it legally. Even the police can't keep entering your home over and over to search. If they do it is harassment. The problem is that people don't know that or don't initially understand it as a search and seizure procedure.
Let me repeat. They have no right to enter my home/computer/business to do anything unless I give them permission even if it is to protect their IP. If they think I am stealing they can hit the courts up and to through due process to convict. I say this even though I am 100% legit on all copies of Windows. You would not let Walmart enter your home or business to search for goods that might be stolen and hence you would not let, should not let, Microsoft do the same.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
... I've been trying to buy a copy of Windows XP here [Brisbane, Australia] for weeks now. Pretty much every single software retail vendor that I've been to just tells me its not possible to buy it any more - they just try to foist a copy of Vista on to me.
There's a few places I can still get OEM (and a few places that seem to have old copies lying around here and there), but if you're Random McRandalot and listen to what sales people are pitching, you can't get XP any more - so why not try Vista?
I'm a XP x64 user, and I'll say one thing - XP x64 seems to have been a testbed for the Vista x64 driver model. Even the least friendly company on my hardware list (Logitech) has released an updated QuickCam driver for Vista, which I've been able to successfully install on XP x64.
Canon get good marks in my book - their current printers are all x64 out of the box, and the scanner drivers have been updated within the last month.
I would say that almost all of those sales are to people who would have bought XP if it was available to them. To create the illusion of demand for Vista Microsoft's had to use their pricing agreements with manufacturers to cut off XP as nearly as completely as possible. If I was buying a new computer running Windows today, a hard requirement for it would be that it include XP rather than Vista, and I'm not confident that I could find one.
By comparison, we were able to buy laptops running 2000 Pro rather than XP for years after XP came out, and XP was still selling better, percentage-wise, than 2000. That's because XP had a reason for existing... it was the retail release of NT5 and replaced the appalling Windows 9x-based Windows Me. People were going out in large numbers and buying XP for computers they already had... not simply getting it as "whatever came with my new computer".
So, no, Microsoft isn't "making a financial killing". They're selling almost the same number of copies of Windows as they would have if Vista had never shipped.
To add to that, many PCs and notebooks sold at the end of '06 came with Vista upgrade coupons. That would expire end march. Basically your computer would come with XP and you fork over the cost of shipping when Vista is made available. Even if you weren't planning to buy Vista, it wouldn't hurt to purchase the media and sit on it. And it is effectively downgrade rights on Vista Home too.
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Everything I have been reading about Microsoft in Redmond and about products surrounding them give me the eerie feeling that Microsoft is struggling desperately. Why else would they put out such false number!?! I think they are desperate to get their stock value up. There are a lot of reasons for this, not solely the fact that their employee's equity in the company is declining and there's no bright future there for new top of the line employees. Give them good value in stock incentives and you can keep them, but if your stock is down and dwindling you do everything you can to make it appear high.
k ing_vista_licenses_too_high.html
The below article describes nicely how Microsoft is fudging the numbers to make it appear that sales were higher than they actually are. Essentially the conclusion is that sales of Vista are weak. It's just sad that a company like Microsoft has to fib in such a way in order to artificially inflate their stock value.
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/stac
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.