Celebrating the HP-35 Calculator With a New Model

An anonymous reader writes "Hewlett-Packard last week announced a contest whereby HP-35 fans create and submit videos of their favorite calculator memories. HP will choose the best videos and you can win a 50-inch, high-def plasma TV. But everyone wins, because HP this summer will debut a special new calculator model. The details aren't announced, however, it's likely to be a 35th anniversary edition of some sort."

Comments

New model, huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they could bring the 48GX back into production. Nary a better calculator have I ever seen.

Re:New model, huh?

[SL Baur]

Amen!

As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[The Monster]

I loved RPN. It was kind of like running Linux; if someone asked to borrow my calculator, they'd freak out because they couldn't find the equals key, and I'd have to explain how to use the thing.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[flyingfsck]

Hmm, I never have problems with people borrowing my calculator. Even supposed computer scientists can't figure it out.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[flyingfsck]

BTW, that should be "1 Enter Enter +".

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[ross.w]

Yoda you must think like, if effectively these calculators you wish to use.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Majik Sheff]

That's why I carry my trusty 33s. I've sold many of my co-workers and associates on RPN just by running circles around them on complex calculations. They're parsing parentheses and I'm writing numbers. It is sad that yet another part of HP that made it great is all but dead. HP is dead, long live Agilent. (though I can't complain about my LaserJet 5si)

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Anonymous Coward]

I am the operator, with my pocket calculator... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZt64_XOflk

(And it have a special key...)

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Anonymous Coward]

I see the funny mod but how's that informative again? That there are two ways to add 1+1?

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[TheGavster]

This is why they developed 'graphing' calculators that just accept expressions typed as written. TI even has a line of scientific calculators now that have a single line display that handles complex expressions.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Petra_von_Kant]

Yes, sadly HP has abandoned too many good technologies. Luckily I've still got my HP67 from 1978, my HP41cx from 1984 and my HP28s from 1988, not to mention my HP Rappaport Sprague stethoscope from when I started in medicine back in 1979 (saw one for sale on eBay last week for US$600 .... went and locked mine up after seeing that).

I still use all the gear too, still have nuclear medicine programmes on cards for the 41 and 67 although I tend to use the Nuclear Medicine and Clinical Chemistry plug-in module on the 41 more. As for the HP Rappaport Sprague, fantastic clarity of chest and heart sounds, anything else is like listening with cotton wool in your ears.

One would have to suspect that they will issue a limited ed HP35 for the "surprise", but anything like the real thing (tm) would be appreciated.

"You've got a chart filling a whole wall with interlocking pathways
and reactions to shock and the researcher says "If I can just control
this one molecule/enzyme/compound I'll stop the whole negative
physiologic cascade of post haemorrhagic shock." Yeah, right."

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Anonymous Coward]

1 ENTER 1 + works just fine. Same number of keystrokes therefore there's no "should" about it, plus duplicate enter assumes DUP which is a secondary property of enter (i.e. beneficial secondary action of enter when no information is written into the edit holding buffer first). This is not bad but the same method would not work in the more common cases like 1 ENTER 2 +. But now we're getting into some fairly complex arithmetic!

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Quino]

RPN is great, once you get the hang of taking advantage of the stack you can really zip through convoluted equations. However, I recently got a new HP calculator with RPN, but the stack is still only 4 deep (AFAIK it's been this way for a while).

Anyone know why the stack is limited to four places?

I know that having 100 would be too much (there's no way I'd be able to keep track myself), however in certain calculations I've found that I could have used at least 8 places and it sucked to stop to write down (I think I saved to a variable) an intermediate step.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Anonymous Coward]

1 enter + will give you 2 on the display in my HP 35 and 45.

(The enter copies the number in X to Y, so you don't need to enter the second 1)

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[zippthorne]

48 and 49 *show* four element stacks (well the 49 will show fewer if you turn on algebraic mode, but only because formatted equations take up space). But the stack is limited only by available memory (or some very large number) afaik. I have no experience with any more recent HP calculators, and haven't used either of those series in a long time either, having largely abandoned graphing calculators: they're not nearly as useful as you'd think, at least for math. A simple scientific calculator is often more useful, and doesn't give you the potential crutch of a computer algebra system.

Further, their functionality surely must by now have been surpassed by PDAs.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Detritus]

It's a compromise. Three levels is too small and four levels is sufficient for most tasks. The architecture was designed when every transistor was precious.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Russellkhan]

Yes, that was the way with most of my HPs. It's one of the things that always sorta bugged me about my 48G. 1 enter + gives you 1 + [whatever was in X before you started] oh yeah, and it calls the bottom line "1:" instead of X, if you've already hit enter. If you haven't hit enter, it's some sort of in-between that isn't named AFAICT.

I got my 48G used without manuals, so there may be some reason for it working that way, but to me it's always just seemed inconsistent with the old way for no known reason.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Anonymous Coward]

I finally learned my multiplication tables in first grade because of RPN it just made more since to me. 4 [Enter] 8 Times was easier to conceptualize than 4 X 8 equals.

Linux is so easy to use that, my wife an Opera Singer, prefers it over that other Windoz stuff that everyone else uses. She gets a kick out of occasional comments from fellow passengers on the Long Island Rail Road. "Is that Vista on your Laptop?" or "So how (does Vista run on your laptop) do you like Vista? She just smiles and says No I am using Linux, a Free and Open Source operating system. It is faster and doesn't crash. Fellow passenger "You must be a computer person?" "No, I'm an Opera Singer"

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[myAmygdala]

With "1 enter enter +" you have to move your finger less. Instead of lifting your finger off the enter key to press "1" and then move your finger back to the enter key, you just double-tap "enter" without having to move to the "1" and back. It's more "important" when you're adding a number with several digits.

"1979135.87 enter 1979135.87 +" vs. "1979135.87 enter enter +".

Generally, when adding two numbers A and B, you do "A enter B +", but when A=B, you can save finger movement and key presses with "A enter enter +". If A=B, and A is a single digit number, then you don't save key presses, but you do save finger movement.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Tupper]

Further, their functionality surely must by now have been surpassed by PDAs.

Well, PDA's can emulate hp calculators but a nice calculator keyboard is hard to beat.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[AK Marc]

"1979135.87 enter 1979135.87 +" vs. "1979135.87 enter enter +".

Which again is as many strokes as having the last two strokes as "2 *".

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[myAmygdala]

Yes, but you have to move your finger from the enter key to "2" and then "*", so if you instead do "enter" and then "+", you save yourself a finger movement, because your finger is already on "enter".

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[AK Marc]

Yes, but the key stroke number is the same.

Re:As easy as 1 ENTER 1 +

[Anonymous Coward]

>Yes, but the key stroke number is the same.

OK, *someone* needs to get a social life, or a hobby...

"35th anniversary edition"

[AirLace]

Wouldn't it be great to see an innovative new calculator design from HP to mark the 35th anniversary rather than a re-hashed "special edition" of some classic design?

Re:"35th anniversary edition"

[AstrumPreliator]

Well as far as I know they've shut down their calculator division. So unless they opened a new one somewhere else I doubt this will happen.

Re:"35th anniversary edition"

[280Z28]

Why can't we have an anniversary edition of the 32S/32SII? Considering where things went after they stopped production of those, the last thing I want to see is some "Innovative new calculator design." Scientific calculators definitely hit their peak in 1991 followed by a giant letdown from the only company that figured out how to make real calculators (in 2002, HP discontinued the 32SII). :(

Re:"35th anniversary edition"

[644bd346996]

They have introduced several new models since closing the ACO. They have a pretty small staff right now, but they are producing. Manufacturing is handled by Kinpo, and R&D is handled by Cyrille de Brebisson. Bernard Parisse, author of the 49 series CAS, is no longer an employee but he is still developing new software, such as a recent geometry app for the 49/50 series. And many of the other former ACO employees are still active on comp.sys.hp48.

Re:"35th anniversary edition"

[SL Baur]

the last thing I want to see is some "Innovative new calculator design" I don't agree with your other statements, but I can almost agree with this one. I did HP-34C, HP-41, HP-48. They were wonderful tools. I still program the old '48 from time to time and I wish that they would continue with their calculators so I can give new ones to my sons when they get old enough. Handhelds are a great introduction to programming.

Wrong calculator

[Anonymous Coward]

Bring back the hp11c

Re:Wrong calculator

[644bd346996]

No, Bring Back the 15c!

Seriously, the 15c's features were a superset of the 11c's features, with the exception of the register allocation scheme. But they can do that however they want these days.

Re:Wrong calculator

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, didn't know that about that one. If i'm in the need to buy another i'll look into it. I have used my 11c for something like 20 years, then my laptop bag with it inside was stolen last fall, and trying to get another one cost the insurance copy about $400...

Re:Wrong calculator

[Jazzer_Techie]

Absolutely! I really want one of these. I switched from a Ti-83+ to a HP 33s when I got to college. But wait you say, from a graphing calculator to a scientific one? Surely that's a downgrade. I wouldn't consider it so, mainly because anything that I need to graph is complicated enough to need done via computer. I can do basic calculations on the 33s faster than I ever could on the 83+. (If you don't believe that, then you've never taken the time to master an RPN calculator.)

I have a professor who still carries around a 15C in his shirt pocket, and I lust after it. It's small and landscape. I never even thought about how much more natural a landscape calculator feels until I got to try it one day. You can use both hands, and everything is placed really well. The insides seem to be pretty cool as well. For homework one week our assignment was to reverse engineer its numerical integrator. Anyways, I really hope I'm able to get my hands on one at somepoint. Unfortunately, they still go for hundreds on eBay, which is certainly a testament to just how good a calculator it is.

Re:Wrong calculator

[smellsofbikes]

I work at National Semiconductor. As far as I've seen, every engineer who uses a calculator at our design center has either an 11C or a 15C. I've had mine since 1984. There are a few TI's sitting around in the labs gathering dust, that are used for emergency addition if someone's HP managed to get left at the desk, but the TI's are shunned, generally.

I can run my 15C by touch, I've used it for so long. And, the weirdest/best thing of all is that, as I said, I've had this since 1984; it took me through ten years or thereabouts of college and several chemistry and engineering jobs since then, and in that time I've gone through *two* sets of batteries; I'm now on my third. I don't quite get a decade out of a set, but pretty close.

Re:Wrong calculator

[AshtangiMan]

! I have one from 1985 that I still use . . . from field surveying to an AE degree and now architecture the 15C does everything I need. It is the oldest piece of electronics that I own, and by far the most reliable. I shudder to think what happens if it is ever lost or damaged.

Re:Wrong calculator

[Anonymous Coward]

My HP-15C stopped working yeas ago, unfortunately.

Since then I've limped along using soft calculators like xhpcalc that used to come on HP systems and, more recently, galculator.

Let's see an updated 48GX

[El Cubano]

But everyone wins, because HP this summer will debut a special new calculator model. The details aren't announced, however, it's likely to be a 35th anniversary edition of some sort."

I love my HP 48GX. I'd love to see an updated 48GX with a faster processor and more memory. Mine is 11 or 12 years old and I still like it better than anything that has come since then, including all of TI's offerings which many schools prefer. With all the advances in semiconductor technology, you could pack a lot more memory and performance into the same package. Hopefully we won't have to wait for a 48th anniversary edition.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[644bd346996]

Get a 50g. The only downside compared to the 48 series is the lack of a large enter key. Otherwise, they have everything you have dreamed of: 75Mhz ARM9 processor, 2.5MB flash, SD slot, IR, USB, and serial comm, a CAS that is almost as good as a desktop app, and they can draw power from your computer via the USB cable. C compiler provided separately.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[Anonymous Coward]

It is truly a great upgrade from the 48 series.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[DilbertLand]

Yikes, looks like the going rate for a used 48GX on ebay is $150-200. I'm glad I have a spare one tucked away if my main one ever actually dies. Of course I'd still be willing to pay that much if mine needed replacement.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[ekgringo]

If you have a Palm (especially one with the larger high-resolution screen like the Tungsten T3 or TX), there's the GPL software Power48 http://www.mobilevoodoo.com/power48.htm. You choose the calculator emulation of a 48SX, 48GX, or 49G. Choosing to emulate either of the 48 models gets you the large ENTER key that RPN purists seem to prefer. Unfortunately soft keys are just no substitute for those honest-to-goodness hard buttons.

Just a satisfied user, in no way affiliated with Power48.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[Martix]

Before I logged on to /. I was just doing some math on my trusty 48GX

How ironic .... this story / thread is here

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[ciggieposeur]

Between a good friend and I we have about 6 HP48 calculators, including (drum roll) one of the very last 48GX's ever made STILL UNOPENED in package. I've got two GXs and one G, he's got 2 GX's and an SX. He's also got a 50. The 50 lasted about six weeks into his electrical engineering coursework before the keys began breaking -- and it had already been replaced once under warranty. My main 48GX has survived the worst of a chemical engineering undergrad and still going strong.

The moral: the 50 is really nice, but is too flimsy to handle the real-world workload.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. He may have had a 49g+ which had crappy keyboards, but there has been NO reported breakage of the 50G keyboard. I've had one over a year before they were launched (beta testing) and mine is still going strong. It is used over 4 hours a day.

Re:Let's see an updated 48GX

[ciggieposeur]

He may have had a 49g+ which had crappy keyboards, but there has been NO reported breakage of the 50G keyboard. I've had one over a year before they were launched (beta testing) and mine is still going strong. It is used over 4 hours a day.

I'm glad yours is OK. My friends, however, is not. Believe whatever you want.

Geeky stuff for the un-geek

[EmbeddedJanitor]

RPN is pure geekiness isn't it? Wrong! Amazingly, the most popular RPN calculators are the HP11/12 which are for beancounters!

I learnt to program on an HP29C overalmost 30 years ago. 98 instructions (well keystrokes) of programming and only a few registers forced you to be pretty frugal, although at the time we thought that was pretty plush compared with the HP25 whiuch had half the memory.

As I type this, I have an HP48SX and HP28S on the desk in front of me. Great devices. My kids both use HP48s for their routine calculations & programming too.

Re:Geeky stuff for the un-geek

[ari_j]

Dude...what the heck kind of managerese is "overalmost"? What does it mean? I'm so lost.

Re:Geeky stuff for the un-geek

[cyclopropene]

Amazingly, the most popular RPN calculators are the HP11/12 which are for beancounters! The 12's were indeed financial, but the 11's were scientific. I should know, since as I type this I have an 11c (as well as a 32sII and an old original 35) on the desk in front of me. My 11c was my first scientific calculator, I think I was 12 or 13 when I got it new. I still use it. Unfortunately the 35, which was a gift, is out of commission.

Re:Geeky stuff for the un-geek

[ch-chuck]

Yea, but nothing beats watching a Monroe-matic CSA 10 calculate the decimal remainder of a division!

Re:Geeky stuff for the un-geek

[Vegard]

Me, I think the 42S was the best thing that ever came out. Still have it, although since I'm more or less always by a computer now, and don't have that much advanced mathematic needs either, it's not been much used the last 10 years.

One of the best thing about them, was their durability. They were nearly unbreakable.

Before my 42S, I had a 10C (which I later gave to my brother), and a 15C, which I still have.

(yes, these were all scientific versions)

- Vegard

TI

[Enderandrew]

Someone other than TI makes high end calculators that people buy?

Wow, I must be really ignorant, but because every school across the country seemingly pushes TI use in school, I didn't think people used anything else.

Re:TI

[644bd346996]

...because every school across the country seemingly pushes TI use in school, I didn't think people used anything else. I don't see how one implies the other. What engineer would take a high school teacher's calculator recommendation at face value? Public schools use TIs because TI markets to the teachers. Ten years ago, all engineers used HPs because HP marketed to engineers and professionals. Then Carly Fiorina took over and killed the HP calculator business for a few years. But they are now back in the game and developing new models that are once again very good products. If you can be bothered to learn RPN, you will never buy TI for yourself again.

Re:TI

[280Z28]

TI makes graphing calculators. Anyone who's spent a decent amount of time with an HP scientific calculator would agree that there was never a comparable product from another company... not even close.

Re:TI

[Rob the Bold]

Wow, I must be really ignorant, but because every school across the country seemingly pushes TI use in school, I didn't think people used anything else.

Back in the day when HP still made calculators, everyone else -- TI included -- played second fiddle. HPs were the premier pocket (or belt-loop pouch) calculator from the early Seventies to the mid nineties, more capable, more durable and more desirable than TI, Casio, or any other pretender.

Too bad they abandoned the market and now only sell rebranded units from Asia. Check http://www.hpmuseum.org/ for the complete history of the HP calculator.

Re:TI

[Anonymous Coward]

> Wow, I must be really ignorant

Nah, not ignorant - probably just young!

Back in the day (70's, 80's) there was HP, and then there was everything else. HP's were *the* calculators to get for engineers. Other makes were for the MBAs and other such types. My 41cx, purchased in early 84, was a damn near miraculous device in its day.

Nowadays, with yer rock'n'roll and yer fancy-shmancy Linux computers you can fit in your shirt pocket, it might be a different landscape for handheld computing devices...

Re:TI

[mrchaotica]

What engineer would take a high school teacher's calculator recommendation at face value?

One that was brainwashed by growing up using Ti calculators in school.

Re:TI

[644bd346996]

It wouldn't be the TI calculators that do the brainwashing. They aren't that bad. The real problem is that public schools do not encourage the development of critical thinking skills, and thus do not enable students to question their teacher's stupidity. That also happens to make most high-school grads incapable of becoming engineers. These days, the unlearning of bad things and the learning of simple things (like handling units) take up so much time in college that many students never catch up enough to really learn anything.

Of course, those who do manage to get an "engineering" degree are pathetically dependent on their TIs as a crutch. (something I've never seen happen to an hp user...)

Re:TI

[bm_luethke]

You will almost never convince someone who has not used an HP in a job what you wrote - TI's worked fine in school so they should everywhere else.

My father is a land surveyor, he and the engineers he works with have lamented for ages about the lack of good calculators. They treasure their hp48's and 41's like a child. Most have several stockpiled. Many also grew up using TI's, but once they found the "older" HP's none ever looked back. I prefer my old 48 over my 49, but I sacrificed it to my father's business since I mostly use it for calculating stats in video games now (while I use plenty of math, as a software engineer it tends more towards stuff that isn't calculator based and the 49 does just as good there).

TI's break from field usage, the keys wear out fast, and the software available is almost 100% geared towards high school and universities - not the real world. Sadly the newer HP's do also - although I understand that they are trying to make good calculators again. A person who has spent time with an HP will run rings around someone with a TI on almost any calculations - in the real world you do what is fastest/best even if it needs a learning curve, not that that which is easiest. Especially true in the engineering world. Over a 30 year career that makes WAY WAY more money, "long term" in a university setting is a semester.

Re:TI

[pyite]

A person who has spent time with an HP will run rings around someone with a TI on almost any calculations

It's been a few years, but I remember in things like physics labs where you have to do a lot of number crunching, all of my lab partners would always plug along dutifully on their TIs while I would have done the calculation twice (once and then a double check) using RPN on my 48GX. I don't use a calculator much anymore, as MATLAB tends to be quicker for the things I need to do, but whatever HP lacks in computational power, it makes up for in efficient syntax.

Re:TI

[fishbowl]

I'm surprised there aren't HP emulators for TI.

Re:TI

[dragonturtle69]

No, you're not ignorant. You've just not worked in a field that appreciates the difference between an HP, and a TI or Casio. The TI's and Casio's are fine in a temperature and humidity controlled environment, and where a computational error (hardware/software, not human) doesn't cost a fortune.

The HP's with their gold PCB's, characters molded through the entire key so it would never wear off, and solid cases were far above the TI/Casio bunch. They also cost more. Think of this as being somewhat analogous to comparing a E Machines PC to a Solaris server, except in this case the Solaris machine is designed to be used outdoors, in bad weather, dropped repeatedly over years, and still give accurate data.

Re:TI

[tighr]

Don't always have to take your teacher's word for it. Back when I was in high school, my Pre-Calculus teacher recommended that everyone get the TI-83 to use in class, because we all were required to have a graphing calculator. I never liked the 83, and instead told her I was planning on getting a TI-86, and she flat out told me that she would not teach me to use it and that I was responsible for anything that it couldn't do that the 83's could. Despite being unreasonable, I went and got the 86 anyway and couldn't be happier. It was easy to learn, the damn thing came with an instruction manual anyway, and it could do everything the 83 could and more. Years later in college, just about everyone had an 86, and I've still used it from time to time since then.

We used Maple in college. Being software, Maple is vastly superior to any handheld calculator solution, anyway. I honestly don't ever see handhelds being able to do what software can do.

Re:TI

[turing_m]

My HP-48GX was a most treasured possession (until it died from saltwater damage). RPN is to infix as vi(m) is to notepad.exe. The only difference is that the learning curve is faster, since there are only about two concepts to learn (order of operands/operators, and use of the stack).

Re:TI

[olman]

I don't use a calculator much anymore, as MATLAB tends to be quicker for the things I need to do, but whatever HP lacks in computational power, it makes up for in efficient syntax.

And that's the problem for fancy calculator-business, really. HP48 (got 48G right here!) is great for some basic arimethic and also for straightforward 1st degree equations when you need to find a component parameter that will work for your circuit..

However, when it gets a bit more complicated, you either need access to some very expensive and dedicated package (field analysis..) or just the ubiquitous excel solver which is easier to manipulate and try scenarios with.

Yeah, I know, bit-heads can do all kinds of snazzy things with the programmability and libraries, but since graduating basic arimethic and 1st degree equations are what you need as an EE. Or, as an alternative, access to the aforementioned highly specialized and extremely expensive purpose-built tools. The kind of math that PSU design involves, for example, is something couple of professors while their time (and grants) with. Results are of course proudly displayed in IEEE journals and the like and everyone in the field has to wait for aforementioned-expensive-tools to be updated with the new models if applicable.

Re:TI

[Tomfrh]

I know RPN and would never use it. My HP sits in my drawer while my TI-89 gets hours of use every day.

RPN is so overrated. Yeah you save 2.56% of keystrokes (or however much it is), but you only do so by decomposing every equation. As such you cant call up previous complete equations for modification, and you don't get to review the complete equation on screen.

Re:TI

[psxman]

Maybe not an HP emulator, but there is an RPN program for TI-89/92s:
http://www.paxm.org/symbulator/download/rpn.html
Dunno how good it is, as I don't really use RPN.

Re:TI

[necrogram]

In the upper levels of the math and science classes i took in high school, HP's actually roamed the land. I got my 48G round 95 or 96, and I'll be damned if that thing doesn't run just as tough as it did then. Once I learned the way of the HP calcs and RPN, I ran circles around TI users. my 48 sits on my desk today at work, and I'd be hard pressed to find another calc to put in its place.

Re:TI

[Rich0]

Uh, have you ever used an HP-48? You can enter equations in algabraic form (infix), and bring them up in the graphical equation editor on-screen. They can easily be saved on the stack or in variables. And, you can use RPN to compose an equation using symbols (X enter Y + Z / gives you (x+Y)/Z). Often if you're making up an equation that is how you end up thinking anyway (take this, multiply it by that, etc).

How are the TIs with vector arithmetic? One thing I loved about the HP48 was the ability to treat vectors just like any other number (in rectangular, cylendrical, or spherical notation). You didn't have to go into a special vector mode where you interactively typed in vectors - they were numbers like any other and could go in variables, equations, etc. e^i*pi works just fine too...

Re:TI

[smellsofbikes]

Yeah, kind of like how colleges in the '80's pushed Macs, which is why nobody ever uses anything else...

Sure, business majors probably use TI's. As I said elsewhere in this thread, I work in semiconductor design, and the only TI's where I work are the ones sitting around in the lab gathering dust. All the design and apps engineers have HP calculators from the '80's, and use them every day. However, our receptionist uses a TI.

Re:TI

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you'd do a three line equation (TI-83 screen) faster with RPN? I thought that RPN would fall over when trying to do such equations (which weren't uncommon for me).
Can you then repeat the whole equation and edit the numbers?

Re:TI

[4181]

RPN is so overrated. ...by decomposing every equation

Perhaps this is similar to a personal preference for standard vs. automatic transmissions, but I feel that this required decomposition is one of the main advantages of RPN, as it involves active interaction with the equation. Students who simply type in an algebraic equation and press EVAL seem more likely to view equations as magical formulae, accepting results without question. Intermediate results, calculated and displayed via RPN, have meaning and are often identifiable quantities.

I feel that the most vocal criticism of RPN comes from those who are not sufficiently comfortable with math to effortlessly decompose equations. These are the students who would benefit most from regular use of RPN, as the mathematical facility developed would help them better understand even those equations they do not evaluate.

An infix calculator is in many ways "smarter" than one that only accepts RPN. (Think of how few lines of code are required to implement an RPN stack.) What do you want your calculator to do for you? If you want it to do as much of the math as possible then choose infix. If you are willing to do the math and want the calculator only to do the numerically accurate computation then choose RPN. (Are you really going to evaluate 2*sin(pi/6)?)

I do realize that this is similar to the lamentations over the disuse of slide rules, and students' resulting cluelessness with regard to the expected magnitude of an answer. Perhaps the only difference is that once the skills for rapid use of RPN are developed there is no speed advantage in "graduating" to an infix machine.

Re:TI

[insignificant1]

Well, more so, a teacher's lesson would be taught by literally dictating keystroke combinations to the students for the TI calculators. I used HP and had to figure out *what* was being done to do it myself (though learning involved a lot more than just translating the teacher's poor lesson onto my calculator, of course). But all the other kids just dutifully re-typed what the teacher said. Wow, what a poor learning environment.

So to me TI calculators symbolize the cattle-and-parrot education system, and hence why I have always shied away from them. There are some absolutely great TI calculators, but I feel dirty if I touch them after how they were used in school.

And bless RPN / stack manipulation for making introductory assembly language in college a good bit easier!

But to be fair, I did become a bit dependent upon my HP, although I was dependent in the sense that I would program everything I learned (from scratch) but then I needed those programs to repeat what I had done. In a sense it was a study mechanism because I had to figure the concept out in order to program it, but then I would forget it shortly after that. So in the end my HP didn't save me from my own (perceived) cleverness.

Re:TI

[pyite]

The point is that with RPN you're checking as you go. If you're typing into a calculator, why not try to parse it while you type instead of transcribing from paper character for character? And yes, I would almost guarantee I'm quicker than most.

Re:TI

[cthulhu11]

I gave up on TI calcs 20 years ago. My TI-55 suffered horrible kkeeyyy bboouunce and an exponent segment on my TI-55 II died during a chemistry test. I had to multiply all my answers by 10 to see if they changed. I got an HP 15C in 1983 and it's still going strong. The first battery lasted for 12 years. *12*.

Probably the 41CV

[ewhac]

I think it may be the HP 41CV, which was essentially a pocket computer in calculator's clothes.

Personally, I'd much prefer seeing a re-issue of the HP 11C or 15C. Landscape layout (great for two-handed use), compact, RPN, and lasted forever on three button cells.

Schwab

Re:Probably the 41CV

[ClosedSource]

I'd like to see a programmer's calculator like the 16C but with an alphanumeric display and programming capability like the 41CV. After programming the 41CV with the alphanumeric display, I couldn't stand scrolling through a program on the 16C and having to map numeric keycodes to functions.

Re:Probably the 41CV

[The Phantom Mensch]

I'd love to see a 41 series reissue. That was my college calculator. Of course it'd have to have a new battery module. I haven't seen N type batteries since that calculator went bye-bye. These days you'd use a cell phone battery that'd last a month on one charge.

Re:Probably the 41CV

[644bd346996]

They won't re-issue the 41. There would not be enough of a market for the expanability. Here's to hoping they release a beefed up 42 with IR and/or USB. Or a 15c. I don't really care, as I would buy both in a heartbeat.

FYI, the 42s was essentially the 41cv sans expansion slots, but with a 2 line dot matrix lcd and a much thinner package.

Re:Probably the 41CV

[Anonymous Coward]

"Personally, I'd much prefer seeing a re-issue of the HP 11C or 15C."

I agree. My 15C got legs years ago (and a 16C, but that was no great loss). All I have left is an 11C and it's display is failing (contamination creeping from the upper right corner). I use it frequently, even with the bad display. Newer calculators are either too much, too little, or not as well layed out.

Re:Probably the 41CV

[Detritus]

They still make N batteries. They are just harder to find. I've had good luck finding them at Radio Shack. I have some old HP clamshell calculators that use them.

My calculator is.......

[Anonymous Coward]

my computer

HP 11C

[dbzero]

Man, that one brings back memories...I loved that calculator.

Re:HP 11C

[SL Baur]

To whomever moderated that comment -1 Offtopic. The 11 was referring to your IQ as well as the calculator model.
Someone with mod points, please fix. Thanks.

Re:HP 11C

[Anonymous Coward]

You're correct, it should've been modded "Redundant", just like any other "Me too!" post.

PLEASE DON'T USE THOSE DAMN CHEAP KEYS

[xtal]

Hello HP;

I am among the last in a long line of engineers who have been lucky enough to be exposed to the OLD HP. The HP run by engineers, that made great test equipment, and calculators. The HP that made great calculators with excellent tactile feedback. You know, one of the only reasons to USE a dedicated calculator.

My HP48GX was purchased in the summer of 1994 before I started my electrical engineering degree. It followed me through every exam and project I have done since and proudly sits on my desk today where it continues to be used daily. I own a 48G I boughts as a spare; and happily run the emulators you have so nicely provided the ROM for, including on my very speedy Palm T3.

I also owned a great HP35, and a HP100LX that I used daily for years. All of these devices had the great, tactile response keys and indestructible construction.

So please, for the love all that is holy and good in the universe, do not make another fisher price calculator. Please make another quality business calculator, and PLEASE consider making an updated version of the best engineering calculator that ever was - the HP48GX.

Re:PLEASE DON'T USE THOSE DAMN CHEAP KEYS

[644bd346996]

The 50g is anything but a fisher price calculator. I have a [dead] 48gII and a 50g, and the improvement in quality is (obviously) like night and day. I do believe they are done with the crappy keyboards of recent years.

Also, they never stopped making quality business calculators. The 12c has been on the market continuously for more than 25 years.

Re:PLEASE DON'T USE THOSE DAMN CHEAP KEYS

[johncadengo]

Hello HP;

You really are an engineer: you've greeted HP through a comment via Slashdot.

Re:PLEASE DON'T USE THOSE DAMN CHEAP KEYS

[xtal]

Believe me, I've tried emailing them too. :)

I remember the HP-35...

[SiliconEntity]

I remember when the HP-35 came out. It was the cover story in (I think) Popular Electronics magazine. It was incredible, an entire slide rule in this small electronic device. It could do trig functions, roots, powers, all to enormous precision. My mouth watered, but I was in high school and it was like $300, which would be more like $3000 today. My friend and I used to bike over to the local university bookstore, where they actually had one on display, and you could punch the buttons and everything.

I never got an HP-35, but later when I was in college I bought an HP-45, the upgrade to the -35, and it served me well for my years.

Re:I remember the HP-35...

[sfonative]

I was in High School and my Grandmother bought me an HP-35 when they were first available. My parents couldn't afford it. I was the first person in my entire school with a calculator. My kids give me that, "Dad, you're a dinosaur" look whenever I mention it. I was on a tour at Harvey Mudd with my college-exploring daughter last Friday. They had a display case with a three-foot slide rule. And below it.... an HP-35. The case was locked, as well it should be.

Bring back the HP-16C!

[billnapier]

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp16.htm

I need a calculator that can do hex, and shifts, and bitwise operations. I mean I love my TI LCD Programmer, but I really miss the shift operations...

Re:Bring back the HP-16C!

[corsec67]

The Sharp EL-9600C has a mode where it does math in Binary, Octal, Decimal and Hex, ... at the same time. It is the only good feature of that calculator, which is quite slow other wise, but it does have a touch screen.

Re:Bring back the HP-16C!

[CodeArtisan]

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp16.htm

I need a calculator that can do hex, and shifts, and bitwise operations. I mean I love my TI LCD Programmer, but I really miss the shift operations... I had the opportunity to buy one of these when they came out in the UK for, IIRC, fifty UK Pounds. Stupidly, I never did - however, a couple of years ago I found one on ebay in mint condition for about $200. Still works like a charm and appeals to my assembly programming mindset.

Re:Bring back the HP-16C!

[PythonCodr]

I still have mine that I bought back in college in the 80's. It's in my desk drawer, and I still use it, even though I have a laptop sitting on my desk. I'm spoiled at this point ... I look at new calculators, but since they don't have the features I use most on the 16C, I never bother to buy a new one.

fun with a calculator

[revolu7ion]

If you turn your monitor upside down there's a secret message below!

710 77345

5318008

That's about as good as it got for me.

Re:fun with a calculator

[Anonymous Coward]

did you mean:

55378008?

Re:fun with a calculator

[mykepredko]

The one we did in High School:

"If Betty goes out with 5001 men and charges each one $7, what is she?"

The answer is the product and looked at upside down.

myke

It's the 49G+/50

[EmbeddedJanitor]

The HP48 keyboard layout was pretty good. Though the 48Gii,49G+ and 50 are a lot faster, the keyboard has been stuffed up. Now there's the small Enter/= key instead of the "proud to be RPN"-sized Enter key that was on the 48 and previous RPN devices.

Re:It's the 49G+/50

[SL Baur]

Now there's the small Enter/= key instead of the "proud to be RPN"-sized Enter key that was on the 48 and previous RPN devices. I never thought of it that way, but you're right.

Programming-wise, they did away with enter a long time ago. It was described as a way to terminate numeric entry and recommended HP-41 programming practice was to never use it in a program as there were other, faster ways to do that.

41cx!

[Anonymous Coward]

The HP41cx was THE best calculator ever made by humans.

Nothing before, nor after, touched it, IMHO.

Anybody else remember the PPC ROM?

Re:41cx!

[Askmum]

Have the ROM, have the book. Probably have the T-shirt too, somewhere.

Had the opportunity to collect a large bunch of 41 stuff some 10 years ago. ROM's, card reader, printer. The lot. The guy I got it from just shoved a large shoebox my way and said "maybe you like it better than I do".
Great fun. Back in the old days, when you could pick up old HP calculators FOR FREE.

It now occupies only the lower shelf of my HP calculator display stand.

Re:41cx!

[SL Baur]

(The 41CX was the world's finest handheld, perfected)

Anybody else remember the PPC ROM? Yeah and "synthetic" programming. Made me decide to go into computer programming rather than electronics.

Slashvertisement Alert!

[rm999]

"But everyone wins, because HP this summer will debut a special new calculator model."

Subtle...

Bah!

[GFree]

I suppose me and my loyal Ti-89 are not welcome in your HP love fest, huh!

/me storms out

Re:Bah!

[windsurfer619]

Yeeeahh! Titaniums! Go factoring! Passing Calc without work! *sigh* I love being in highschool.

Re:Bah!

[Hymer]

It is welcome... if it got RPN.

Re:Bah!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had said "/me out storms" we would have invited you back.

TI is still pretty cool

[caller9]

Why not let the calculator convert to RPN and back?

Re:TI is still pretty cool

[thebear05]

though a financial calc , the hp 17bII+ does just that

Re:TI is still pretty cool

[GenKreton]

My HP33s scientific/engineering calculator does that as well. And it's one of the few approved for the Fundamentals of Engineering exam.

RPN

[ross.w]

I never got the RPN hang of

Re:RPN

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldnt that be:
I never (Enter) hang the (Enter) RPN (Enter) of got

Re:RPN

[moosesocks]

Wow..... you just made me realize that RPN is essentially the Latin grammatical syntax applied to math.....

(For the uninitiated, Latin sentences typically go: Subject -> Direct Object -> Verb (with an indirect object optionally thrown in before or after the DO))

Alternatively, rearrange the phrase as you'd hear Yoda say it.

Re:RPN

[ari_j]

You should have picked a language with strict word order rules. Latin is one of the most flexible languages out there in terms of word order. However, the more common word orderings from Latin seem to have become rules in some of the Romance languages. For instance, 'te amo' in most of them where there are probably 12 ways to order the words for the same sentence in Latin. ;)

Re:RPN

[iocat]

I don't know sh*t about calculators, but I do know a bit about language, and here's a handy rule for you: the more detailed the word endings and forms, the less word order matters. That's true for almost every language. You can see this both ways in modern English, if you compare it to what I think of as "immigrant English," which frequently eliminates word endings for various reasons.

For instance, I could say, to a native english speaker, "handed me the man did a book" and it basically makes sense, because the word endings/forms are right, while "hand me the man does a book" just doesn't make any sense at all. Signs like "park two dollar" or "no refill outside cup" really rely on word order to make sense in English, because they are totally ungrammatical otherwise,and you need the grammar to work at least one way (word order or endings) to make sense in English. These examples are kind of bad, but you see what I mean (it's also hard for a fluent speaker to even come up with the kind of bad examples that non-fluent speakers come up with). Euro languages have been moving more towards word order being important and less to word endings being important since like, the fall of Rome. I expect the influx of immigrants to English-speaking countries will probably exaserbate that trend in the coming decades, as it seems to be easier to remember word order rules than word form rules.

Christ this off topic, sorry.

Re:RPN

[Vegard]

Nope.

I never (enter) hang (enter) the RPN (enter) of got

Btw, anyone that like RPN should *really* take a look at the postscript language. It will all feel natural.

- Vegard

Re:RPN

[AK Marc]

I expect the influx of immigrants to English-speaking countries will probably exacerbate that trend in the coming decades, as it seems to be easier to remember word order rules than word form rules.

For the Chinese, that would be very true. There are no word forms. All words are fixed with no tenses, no gender (save for the gender-specific words themselves, like "man" or "woman"), no conjugation at all, not even plurals. Having learned some Chinese, I can now read the bad signs with clarity (aside from the ones with bad translations). The errors are simple and predictable for people that have never been exposed to words that change.

Re:RPN

[earlejones]

I loved RPN! Still do. I love the push-down stack. Hell, I even loved FORTH!

crud!

[TinBromide]

Gah! My grandpa was a civil engineer and after he passed, we went through his personal belongings, among them was a non-working hp-35 final model (i realize this now from the pictures on a link in the original article).

Had i realized that it was such a landmark calculator, i would have stowed it away for tinkering later, instead i thought it was like the ti-36 of a previous era and its either in the trash or in a box in the back of a storage locker.

Re:crud!

[sznupi]

That reminds me the horror I've heard recently...my girlfriend said, after seeing photo of HP calculator (the financial ones style) that after their grandfather died several years ago, she and her brother basically destroyed his HP calculator bevause "it was broken" (no "=").
On one hand...I want to forgive her (after all she was just a child then), but on the other...HP calcs are impossible to get/very expensive in this country ;P

I wonder what we will win for the 82 anniversary

[mycall]

har har, wrong company, I know.

What about the HP-16C

[onescomplement]

I hold in my hands my cherished HP-16C that soldiered through many an assembly language and C implementation, not to mention device drivers. I would think that to a computer type, this might have more meaning.

And it is also 25 years old, according to the calculator museum site.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp16.htm

Re:What about the HP-16C

[EQ]

Bigtime agreement! My 16C still smokes anything out there in terms of ease of use, etc. Setting, testing, clearing bits, and masks, settingthe type of complement you want for the math, varyign the word size up to 64 bits (before there were even 64 bit CPUS around!) - and all in that small form factor wiht a clean display and fantastic keyfeel. Simply amazing. Especially for someone that has to deal with low level devices and their custom interfaces.

I wish they would remake that one or the 15C. I miss my 15C (lost in a move a long time ago), but would have to get medieval on somone if they took my 16C.

I still have my 48GX and a spare one of those, but they are overkill - the 16C is perfect combination of form and function.

The New Slashdot

[SeaDour]

News for Nerds, Calculators that Matter

I do integrals in my head.

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, are my bitch.

I've both the 35 and 45.

[Chris Tucker]

The 45 is the daily use calculator. There are few things in this world that approach perfection. The HP-35 and the HP-45 are among those few things.

Sure, I could use PCalc on the Macintosh. I've got the free version that came with a set of OS install disks. It's a damn fine application.

However, the HP-45 is right by the keyboard. And I can operate it with my left hand and enter the results into the Mac via the keyboard keypad with my right.

And it's faster than invoking and using PCalc, too.

Who gets my HPs is in my will. I honestly expect both calculators to outlive me. And I'm only 57.

(Still looking for the hard leather belt holster for the 45 to go along with the hard leather belt holster for my Pickett slide rule.

Yes, I am that geeky!)

Please do it right...

[AetherBurner]

No fancy slanted keys, prettyprinting, funky colors, just pure vintage rugged HP calculator - molded in keylabels, silicone-in-the-plastic keys, 100% useful. I have a HP-32SII and had an HP-41 that was smashed to pieces (R.I.P.). I would love to see the feel and ruggedness of the HP-32SII and more power than the HP-41. Yes, I still have a good ol' reliable Post slipstick to use and teach with.

Re:Please do it right...

[tropicflite]

Why is everybody hating on my 33s? It's really a nice little machine, with only a couple of little caveats. The chevron key layout is perfectly usable, and the keys do give that nice tactile feedback. The biggest complaint (the radix size issue) has been fixed. I concede that I wish it had the double size enter key, but really, it's not that big a deal. The two line display more than makes up for that. For $50 on amazon I think it's a great deal, especially considering your only other choice for a new rpn calc is the 50g ($75 more and much bigger) and we all know how ridiculously high the used HP's go for on ebay.

Re:Please do it right...

[Detritus]

The color scheme sucks. In recent years, HP has developed a talent for picking colors and backgrounds that make it difficult to read the legends. It also has some bugs in the math functions.

Re:Please do it right...

[sznupi]

Not sure why, but while reading your post I thought that HP calc with e-ink display would be nice...well, definatelly no funky colors.

The sad truth is...

[DogDude]

The sad truth is that the world just doesn't have much use for calculators, any more. The world is too busy worrying about who the Next Top Model is.

Re:The sad truth is...

[644bd346996]

The not so sad truth is, no matter what happens, the world will eventually start throwing large sums of money at the people who can use an HP calculator, because they will be the only ones capable of keeping modern society (Internet, bridges and skyscrapers, airplanes, etc.) from falling apart.

Re:The sad truth is...

[poopdeville]

Yes, the personal computer is not a more powerful, extensible tool than a pocket calculator. The C standard library can't do everything your HP can. Nevermind a specialized package like MATLAB or Mathematica -- they can't touch your HP.

Re:The sad truth is...

[Reality Master 101]

The sad truth is that the world just doesn't have much use for calculators, any more. The world is too busy worrying about who the Next Top Model is.

Yeah, I remember the Golden Era that was the 70s and 80s. All the cool people would whip out their calculators periodically and do some quick computations. Then we'd relax and watch all that stimulating television like Three's Company and Miami Vice. When we'd really want to get crazy, we'd calculate WHILE we watched Happy Days!

-sniff- The good ol' days.

Re:The sad truth is...

[colinrichardday]

But my 48GX is smaller and has more battery life than my laptop. Also, doing numerical programming on the 48GX is wonderful, just put stuff on the stack and process.

Re:Hey, Windows/Linux refugees!

[Anonymous Coward]

where's the mac in the poets picture?

I've both the 35 and 45-Educalc.

[Anonymous Coward]

"(Still looking for the hard leather belt holster for the 45 to go along with the hard leather belt holster for my Pickett slide rule."

You use to be able to get stuff like that through Educalc.

HP 35C set the direction for my life

[MykePagan]

In maybe 1974 my dad, a Civil Engineer bought an HP 35C. Even though it cost a fortune (in those days), he let his 10 year old son (me) play with it. I remember being so impressed with it that it cemented my impression that HP was THE company to work for, if you were an electrical engineer.

18 years later I joined HP.

15 years after that and I'm still at HP. It's not the same place that it was in 1992, but then again what place is? I'd still rather be here than at the other computer makers, but the software and services companies are where the real action is now. Unfortunately, few of them seem to have that same "engineer's company" feel that HP did back in the day.

FWIW I don't blame Carly, though I didn't like her either. It was inevitable, with commoditization of the hardware.

Re:HP 35C set the direction for my life

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude.

Very similar story for me. But about 10 years earlier (I started in '82). And I've moved on to greener pastures. :)

But yeah, I got there basically because they made some wicked ass engineering calculators, and I figured it had to be a cool place to work.

Re:HP 35C set the direction for my life

[Chrisje]

Funny, this.

I've now worked for HP since 1996 (I was 20 still) and I agree to much of what you're writing about HP, except for the fact that I do blame Fiorina.

The crazy part is that I've never, ever held a calculator in my hand since I was 12. And at that time, at school, they peddled TI of course. As soon as I got my first real PC (not counting the SX-81 Sinclair, Acorn Electron and MSX I had before that), I've never gone back to anything that fits in the palm of my hand, including pens.

Re:HP 35C set the direction for my life

[chrism238]

35C? What 35C? Do you mean 25C or 34C ?

My favorite calculator isn't the HP

[Kuciwalker]

Rather, it's a GNU Octave window. Really, what can beat that? And on the occasion that I need to do something symbolic I pull out a TI-89.

The state of calculator development?

[cgenman]

Can anyone update an old timer as to the state of calculator development? When I was getting out of these things, it looked like TI and HP were going to have a duel to the death. With color LCD's on the verge of availability and the Power PC line of low-power chips set to overtake the world, it looked like a bright future of powerful visualizations.

Fifteen years on, it looks like the high-end calculator market has all but been abandoned to mathematica. Prices for the calculators haven't budged a dollar, while the price of all of the components have dropped to next to nothing.

Who is still making these things? Who, if anyone, is still competing?

Re:The state of calculator development?

[ClosedSource]

I think TI won the duel simply because a high-cost, high-quality approach like HP used made it difficult to successfully market new calculators with new features. If you paid a premium for your HP and the keys still don't bounce after a decade or more of use, it's hard to go out and buy a new one unless there's a pretty compelling reason. If you buy a TI, you'll probably have to replace it within 3-5 years whether you want to or not.

Re:The state of calculator development?

[kestasjk]

Here in Australia Casio Color calculators are the ones most high school kids get, and which are in most universities. It has 3 colors, with graphs, matrices, recursive functions, lists+statistics, and has a BASIC like program syntax.

I wrote a couple of programs for it (see my website ^) which show the syntax and what it's capable of.

Personally I think they're good, but progress has been comparatively slow. It's still slow and expensive, with a small screen and small memory, when compared with the increasing speed of processors elsewhere.

Re:The state of calculator development?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone update an old timer as to the state of calculator development?

The Vedic calculator eventually won out. It's not exactly recent technology, but it's what the cool geeks are using these days.

Re:The state of calculator development?

[SL Baur]

If you paid a premium for your HP and the keys still don't bounce after a decade or more of use, it's hard to go out and buy a new one Yeah, a very fair assessment of HP quality (with their calculators). I lost my '41s after moves, but my original 41CV was still working great after 10+ years, as is my 48G - 12 years and counting.

Re:The state of calculator development?

[644bd346996]

I'd say that HP is the only company to take advantage of newer technology. Most of TI's graphing calcs still use Z80s, and the high end uses 68k. All of HP's current graphing calculators use Samsung SoCs with an ARM9 core that goes up to 200MHz. HP has started to take advantage of the integrated peripherals by adding the SD slot (enabling me to store the complete documentation for every app and the calc itself on a 1Gb card) and USB. Hp has also left the device open to hacking, so it can be programmed in C and ARM native code to use other features, such as the display controller's support for grayscale. The only thing keeping Linux off these machines is the lack of RAM (HP still uses SRAM). On the software side, HPs can do 3d graphing quickly enough that it is sometimes worth using. The same cannot be said about the TI89.

Also, it is worth noting that the top of the line HP graphing calculator, the 50g, can be had for under $130 US. That is quite affordable compared to calculators from 15 years ago.

Only 35 years?? Pah!

[spagetti_code]

My day to day calculator is an HP-14b
50th Anniversary Limited Edition!, with the waaayyy coooool SWAP key. Talk
about turning it up to 11!

[joke]
And it doesn't rely on that arse-backwards RPN crap either.
HP did include an INPUT button to make engineers feel at home, although why
engineers would want a calculator with:
- time value of money
- return on investment
- inventory turnover rate
is beyond me.
[/joke]

(dons flame suit anyway because poking at beloved RPN
is dangerous around here)

Re:Hey, Windows/Linux refugees!

[celkin]

"we'll leave beige to you"

My computer is black. How about you?

I love my 11c!

[xlation]

I might be tempted by a 15c, but I have thought for
many years that the 11c is the one true scientific calculator

What's the point?

[johansalk]

Why would one want such a calculator when you can have a PDA?

Re:What's the point?

[pyite]

Why would one want such a calculator when you can have a PDA?

Because while you are recalibrating your digitizer and taking out your stylus to tap emulated keys, I will have already entered the RPN statement twice, once to run it and again to double check it.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

PDAs don't give you a boner. HP calculators do.

Re:What's the point?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Because PDAs are gay!

But seriously, once you learn an RPN calculator, there's nothing faster and more efficient. It's an engineer's tool. It becomes an extension of yourself.

And PDAs really are gay. :)

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW, there's a nice HP calculator emulator for the N800 Linux PDA.

hp42 it's called if I remember right.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like walking into a gym and ask why don't they use a crane to lift those damn weights.

Re:What's the point?

[turing_m]

Why use keyboard shortcuts when you can use a mouse?

Re:What's the point?

[johnny cashed]

false dichotomy. My calculator is a PDA. It's personal, it's digital, and boy does it assist. My HP 48 had it all, serial port, graphic screen, and with the right software, addresses and phone numbers. Built in calendar and clock to boot.

Old ad... how quaint!

[zanderredux]

Google pointed me to this, where HP introduces their "electronic slide rule".

From the ad:

The HP-35 Shirt Pocket Calculator lets you make complex calculations like this one approximately five times faster than with your slide rule... with 10 place accuracy... and without a scratch note!

The HP-35 took 60 seconds to compute the formula shown on the page and it cost $395. $395 in 1972!

When I look at stuff like that I appreciate how computing has come a long way. Except for the Pentium bug.

Re:Old ad... how quaint!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget, the HP-35 had a bug too! If you pressed 2.02 ln e^x, you got back 2.00 instead of 2.02. They had to mail replacement offers to all the registered owners. Of course, they didn't have any good way to test the accuracy of their algorithms because mainframes didn't offer as much precision as the HP-35 had, so they had to compare with published tables and hope for the best.

dom

The state of commodity development?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone provides an interesting insight. I'd say PDAs are were some of it's at.

Re:The state of commodity development?

[Hognoxious]

I was thinking that too. I have an old Psion 5mx and the spreadsheet has NPV APR and all those TLAs that beancounters love built-in. Is there anything I'd need to get a 12C?

The big question

[Anonymous Coward]

Has somebody ported Linux to it yet?

Give me a solar powered HP with RPN

[johnny cashed]

Like a 11c, 15c, or a 32sII. Ok, I can do without the solar, but I've always wanted a decent RPN calculator that I do not have to get batteries for.

Not that it is a big deal, all the HPs I've owned that ran off the button cells had excellent battery life.

Don't skimp on the keys. Even the later 32sII had printed keys.

Re:Give me a solar powered HP with RPN

[SL Baur]

Because they were waiting for flash memory to be invented? How can you store programs on solar power without persistent memory?

Not that it is a big deal, all the HPs I've owned that ran off the button cells had excellent battery life. Yup.

Re:Hey, Windows/Linux refugees!

[NotWorkSafe]

It looks like they are in an Apple Store

The sad truth is...Modesty.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good thing I didn't read this before seeing the above.

Finally it makes sense...

[Ardipithecus]

Do the numbers as you wish, but,

I, for one, welcomed our new hp overlords

1973, Jr. year (OMG!), Florida (yes, the Gators)

$300 very hard earned real dollars went into the hp-35, maybe (judging from house and car prices) $3-5k today) and about the best money I ever spent

As they say, it let me concentrate on concepts rather than number crunching; within a year everyone had one (or the awful TIs) and engineering (and science) would never be the same. Take offense if you must, but RPN users are smarter.

Followed by a 67, 25, 21, 41, 28, 48 (G and GX), 49 and recently another 21, for the collection. They all work. By now I use a 48 and only do basic stuff, with smarter (always hire smarter people) young engineers doing the hard stuff under my possibly wise direction

We worked with hp on several tweaks; an admirable co. and group of guys.

If the surprise is a gold plated hp-35, I'm in line. What will you young guys see in 35 years, post singularity?

To quote the now prehistoric Grateful Dead: "What a long strange trip it's been"

Re:Finally it makes sense...

[Anonymous Coward]

>Take offense if you must, but RPN users are smarter.

Yeah, they have to be, because their calculators are dumber.

Sears golden ratchet

[WindBourne]

Sears did a gold plated ratchet wrench for its anniversary. It would be interesting to see HP do something nice like that. The truth is that HP calcs last nearly forever, so why not?

Classic RPN has a place

[Nybble's Byte]

Give me HP-41CX functionality and keystroke programmability, but lots faster and with plenty of RAM. Give me USB connectivity and an SD card slot like on the 49g+ and 50g. Most important, give me a rock solid reliable keyboard where I don't have to look at the display to make sure the keys I pressed actually registered. While you're at it, give me double injection molded keys with the characters molded into the keys so they'll never wear off, not painted on (I'm probably dreaming on this one). And for us old timers, put the darn Enter key back where it belongs. Feel like giving us a multiline display? Great. Let us scroll back and forth through the RPN stack. Clock and calendar functions are desirable features, as are the basic financial functions.

Based on what I know and have heard from very reliable sources, HP is back - I mean the "good old" HP we thought was gone. Stay tuned for exciting times. The HP handheld users conference (link is to last year's) to be held in the fall will be one of the focal points for all of this to be announced.

Re:Hey, Windows/Linux refugees!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's one hell of a store!

Silly me, I mistook it for an art gallery.

Mac's Service Shop, March(?) 1972 PopTronics

[calidoscope]

I remember reading that same article and getting really excited about it (was a senior in high school). And similar to your experience, ended up getting the HP-45 and using it until about 4-5 years - replaced by grpn. The intro price for the HP-35 was $395 when you could still buy gas for less than $0.30/gallon and the lowest price for a new car was just under $2,000.

BTW, Mac's Service Shop was a holdover from Electronics World which was folded into PopTronics in 1970. I did keep my copy of the issue with the HP-35 story as well as the Jan 1975 issue announcing the Altair 8800.

Now you can have RPN calc on your mobile

[Yetihehe]

Java based RPN calculator for mobile phones. When learned, it's actually MORE easy and faster to use than typical calculators. http://midp-calc.sourceforge.net/Calc.html (I'm not affiliated in any way with author. I just like this program and want to share with it).

Re:Now you can have RPN calc on your mobile

[PPH]

Got one that runs on a Palm PDA (Tungsten E)?

Oblig. bumper sticker

[Anonymous Coward]

RPN heart you if honk then

TI-Nspire

[nbritton]

TI is coming out with a new calculator this fall, called the Nspire...

http://www.ti-nspire.com/tools/nspire/index.html

* 320x240 Gray Scale LCD
* CAS Functions.
* 16MB RAM
* 20MB Flash

Re:TI-Nspire

[Anne Thwacks]

I would really love an emulation of this on my Nokia N61.

Which would give me 320x240 colour, QWERTY KBD and 4GB Flash.

And WIFI, GSM, sound, etc.

I can see the point of an HP memorial edition, but TI?

Re:TI-Nspire

[Anonymous Coward]

Still no RPN...

Re:Hey, Windows/Linux refugees!

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn niggers.

RPN

[awol]

I have always wondered if "stack" based thinking is inherently human or not. It can take a while to get reverse polish notation but once grokked it seems that one can hold much more of a computation in ones head (or with minimal, non answer based) notes.

I think not but I think the research would be fascinating. Long range navigation would be the most logical "selection pressure" on a disposition to stack based thinking, but in reality I think humans tend to use waypoint based navigation which is inherently not stack based.

Either way the elegance of stack based calculation and the way in which it can work for humans does suggest soem very interesting aspects of cognition.

For HP the importance of the calculator should be

[Anonymous Coward]

than just the profit made from the sale. Having the HP logo in front of a professional every day and having them really like the product is the best advertising they'll ever find.

Missed Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that anyone cares. My father was a physicist working at the Lawrence Berkeley Radiation Lab. He asked an electrical engineer working at the lab, if he could design a hand held device that would allow for the basic functions, Addition Subtraction Multiplication Division along with Logarithmic / Trigonometric functions and perhaps a few pre-programmed constant functions like Pi and Alpha? His friend replied something like "Yes not a problem, but why bother we have slide rules and they don't need batteries or a power cord?" Don't think my father ever let guy forget that conversation.

RPN Lives!

[BanjoBob]

I still use an HP-35 and an HP-67. I love the 67 and its only problem is that the magnetic card reader has died but, it is still programmable.

These calculators just run and run and run, I've never had any reason to get rid of them. Thanks to HP for some great calcs!

Of course my K&E Analon slide rule still works too! (Did I just date myself? ;-}

HP 11C

[Tteddo]

I love my 11C, 23 years old and only on it's 3rd set of batteries!

Bah.

[SCHecklerX]

You can have your RPN. I'll stick with my trusty old casio fx-4500P. Not a bad little machine for its time.

Cash registers

[metamatic]

If you broaden your definition of "calculator", the most popular RPN calculators are the cash registers you find in stores. For the benefit of those who have never worked retail, I'd better explain that most cash registers work by having you enter the price, then push a button which equates to "+" on an RPN calculator.

Similarly, for 3 items at $3.99 you push $3.99 [enter] 3 [multiply]. Watch carefully next time you buy stuff at a store that doesn't use bar code scanning yet.

16C!

[metamatic]

No, bring back the 16C! That's a true Slashdot geek's calculator.

Perhaps this posting is an opportune place to mention nonpareil, the HP calculator simulator that actually uses the original ROMs and will flawlessly emulate a 15C, 12C, 11C or 16C. I've programmed one of the buttons on my keyboard to bring up nonpareil in 16C mode.

5318808

[starbuckr0x]

TEE HEE, 5318808! Dude, turn the calculator upside down!

Re:5318808

[embedded_tom]

Bobbies???

First Geek on Campus: Univ. of Mich.

[csfenton]

In '72, I saw the HP advertizement in Scientific American. I ordered it by calling HP directly. I had to send them a bank check for $400.00. I had to wait more than three months; into the beginning of third year in U of M Engineering school.

It finally arrived in late September.

So how did I handle it? It was the only one on campus that I was aware of. I took it to my professors and asked if I could use it in class and on exams. After they wiped the drool away, they all said yes.

It saw the greatest use in the dorm, loaned to engineers taking surveying. I adopted a policy of loaning it to anyone in the dorm (Bursely Hall) that asked to borrow it. Everyone knew it belonged to me. It always came back.

Predictions: Talking about calculators in class that same year (1972), I took a three ring notebook turned it sideways opened it and suggested the facing cover would be the display screen and the keyboard would be where the pages were held; a personal laptop computer. I had to wait another twenty years for it to arrive on my desk.

Worst experiance with it: I missed an 'A' in a mechanical design course by one point. I took a square root (one key stroke) instead of cube root (x raised to the y) on the final exam. The professor wouldn't budge.

I wish I still had it. After graduation, I loaned to to my employer's wife for to calculate discounts in a flower & plant store she was running. The store was broken into and it was stolen. They paid for a later model (21 or 25??).

I didn't like little leather case that came with it; too insubstantial. I bought a zippered bible cover and a bakelite case at Radio Shack. I trimmed the case to fit inside the bible cover and then lined the case with nylon lined neoprene to absorb shock. The 35 fit perfectly inside. I still have case. I keep my LCD multi-meter in it.

If I had it I would probably have it mounted on the wall in my office.

Funny...yes...however.....

[StressGuy]

This is a valid point.

Besides being a very efficient way to enter formulas into a calculator, one of the nice things about RPN was that people didn't want to borrow your calculator.

Of course, mine was an HP41-CV .... which will date me a bit

Re:Funny...yes...however.....

[spudgun]

Besides being a very efficient way to enter formulas into a calculator, one of the nice things about RPN was that people didn't want to borrow your calculator.

If only this was true for all HPs
my HP 27s was stolen :-(

I miss that calc , couldn't replace it so I got the new 49G , just before the G+ was announced

for those in windows land who have never knowen a HP calc , get Emu48
(even that can't emulate the HP 27s :-(

32S II

[krog]

the 48GX is a good graphing calc, but the HP 32S II is still at the top of my list for engineering calculations. discontinued at about $60 new, used ones regularly sell for $125-150 on eBay. it has the sanest layout of any calculator I have ever touched, and all the operations I need to use are very fast to key in.

the ugly-ass 33S was designed as a replacement, but it offers negative improvement.

I love the 32S II so much, I wrote a /usr/bin/dc variant called dci that comes close.

While cool.

[nurb432]

It wont quite be the same thing has having a real one.

Wont even be the same technology.

USB-connected HP-IL

[Russ Nelson]

Hey! I know what HP ought to make! A USB-connected HP-IL interface. Now THAT would be an excellent homage from the child to the parent.

Re:USB-connected HP-IL

[Nybble's Byte]

Yeah, picture a whole slew of 82161A digital cassette drives whirring away copying tapes (128 KB each). We did that at the 1985 Atlanta HP handheld users conference - I had 8 of the drives hooked up to my HP-75C running MCOPY. Of course each drive needed to have an AC charger hooked up, because if one drive's battery died halfway through the copying, the whole mass copying process failed. The "front runners" had 9114A disc drives. And who could forget (please!) the 2225B ThinkJet printer? I still have all that stuff, and an HP-IL 7470A pen plotter...

HP Calculators

[ArcticBirdman]

I quess I must also be an HP geek as I started out with the HP35 back in 1973, then worked my way through an HP55, HP67, HP97, HP15c, HP16c, HP41CV(3x), HP28S, & HP48SX. Except for the HP35, which I sold several years ago, the rest still all work. My father gave me the best example why HP were better then TI. He would take one HP and one TI calculator, put them on a table, turn both on, then hit the table real hard. He said that the TI would try to do calculations, whereas, the HP was not effected. During the early years, I really like the HP calculator library, where users could submit programs for others to use. I still find RPN much better to do calculations. One point not mentioned is that once the HP35 was introduced, the North American slide-rule industry almost disappear in one year, and yes, I still have several slipsticks and still know how to use them. For simplier times. James