Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Pressures Testers After Software Leak
narramissic writes "ITworld reports that Microsoft is 'taking tough measures to find out who leaked a Community Technology Preview (CTP) of Windows Home Server to The Hotfix.net blog.' The software preview was posted on the site by a user named 'Richard' soon after it was released to a small group of testers. In an e-mail to MVPs whose names contain 'Richard,' Kevin Beares, the Windows Home Server community lead at Microsoft, wrote: 'For right now, you have no access to the beta until I can find the Richard who posted the WHS (Windows Home Server) CTP on this site.... I will work with the Connect Admin team to determine which one of you is the real culprit of this leak.'"
If this was Apple we would get many posts defending their right and need to do this. Since it is MS we won't. -Larry
foreach (Tester ReallyUnluckyGuy in GetTestersByName("Richard"))
{
ReallyUnluckyGuy.DenyAccess(Now);
ReallyUnluckyGuy.AskQuestions(Later);
}
The leaker was arrogant/foolish enough to use his real name.
:)
Probably, at least. Granted, you'd think he was just being a Richard and it needn't have anything to do with his name, but think about--someone leaked MS's follow-up email to people named Richard. Might it have been the Richard we're looking for?
...the whole class being kept behind at school until they found the culprit.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
"The software preview was posted on the site by a user named 'Richard' soon after it was released to a small group of testers."
I'd think that Microsoft's bigger question whether someone this dimwitted should allowed to work with their code. Why would I not be surprised if "Richard" really was the guy's name. Talk about poor judgment.
Three Squirrels
...for leaking the letter too.
Translation, "Are you the Dick who leaked?"
[
Sheesh,
this is about as well-thought out as the no-fly list "algorithm". Well, Abdul looks a bit like Andrew so you're a suspect, eh?
If they didn't watermark, or put some other individual identifying marks in each of the CTPs handed out, then they have no clue who leaked it, and punishing the innocent is not going to improve their chances.
Dear Slashdot,
Thankyou for agreeing to help publicize our new products by spreading information about our phoney leak. You have my personal assurance that if we ever find this "Richard" character, I will be certain to punish him very severely for creating public awareness of our super-innovative new server software. Gosh, I do hope no-one downloads a pirate version and sees how awesome it is!
Also, thanks for your good work on the Xbox 360. Who would have thought so many Linux dorks would be willing to buy into our wall-to-wall DRM and platform lockin?
-- Bill Gates
(This is a private email, right? IE is doing something strange....)
Oh...
And I wonder why Kevin Beares thinks it was a Richard who leaked this. If I was doing such a thing, especially when there are only a small group of testers, I would use a pseudonym. Richard is as good a one as any other.
Also, I wonder how he thinks he can work it out? Contacting the ISPs perhaps? (From the article it seems as if the webmaster for the site where the leak was posted will help.) I'm sure all the testers will deny being "Richard" of leaking fame.
This whole thing seems like a big beat up.
I wank in the shower.
"He said that Microsoft has "spies" in the forums on the Hotfix.net in an attempt to find out who is leaking software previews on his site. Microsoft also asked him to provide the names of who is leaking Microsoft files to his site, but he said he declined to do so."
Imagine that, MS spying on forums and trying to find leakers. They may want to put a call into the White House about the whole spy thing to get some help.
I lost my sig...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The next time this guy decides to leak something under a false name I suggest he try 'Bill' instead of 'Richard'.
Bill
OK, get me if I am wrong here but the testers were working for free, correct. If MS (or any other company for that matter, even Apple), does not want to pay for work, then they take their chances. If they want testers that will follow their rules, they should pay the testers then. Very simple concept.
Maybe, I mean why would Microsoft create a Windows Home Server other than to compete with *nix/BSD where it's been done for years.
Repeat after me "Microsoft is not an innovator", again "Microsoft is not an innovator", one more time "Microsoft is not an innovator", do you get it yet?
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Could it be Richard Stallman in the conservatory with the wrench?
Which one of you Bills is abusing your monopoly?
Tell us what is wrong with his assumptions - Almost any Linux distribution has web server, mail server, firewall, spam filter, database serving, storage serving, print serving, you name it right out of the box. Please tell us what features Microsoft Home Server has that are not available for free and already in widespread use on the net under Linux.
Come on. You know you can't.
God damn it, I wish I still had my mod points. Next time, try posting when I still have them. Ok?
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
The leaker was arrogant/foolish enough to use his real name.
This is supposing a lot. I for one, would probably use the name of somebody I didn't like. Maybe something like Steve, or Bill. But that might be a little obvious, no?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Microsoft is being run by the Bush administration!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Well for starters:
1) Single instance store automatic differential backups. none of this shitty "dd" stuff; this compares each 4 kb block with a database on the server and only uploads ones that have a different hash. Very efficient and very nice.
2) Automatic warnings if any Windows machine on your network has AV or AntiSpyware turned off.
3) Automatic warnings if any of your machines has not backed up in the last several days. (and the software will wake machines from sleep mode to do the backup and then have them go back to sleep).
4) Ability to serve as a remote control gateway to your computers (where you go to the website of the server and can initiate secured remote desktop sessions to your other machines from there with only 2 ports forwarded to the server and none to any other machines.
But then again, I have actually tried the beta instead of just making shit up about it.
Did they ever stop to consider the fact that besides these testers, undoubtedly lots of people on the inside will have had access to the leaked version?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
I'm sorry, but this OS sounds like a stinking pile of M$ Bob manure. Anyone with an inkling of familiarity with *nix already has this and more for a lot less. Heck it's so bad, I think Microsoft would be better off not exposing it's customer base to this market. The Home server is so easily replaced by a more powerful/flexible Linux implementation that Microsoft is effectively putting a stock '71 pinto in the Indy 500, it's sad, nothing else.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
How about the ability to install most programs without having to wait 8 minutes for the source to compile (3.2ghz xeon w/ 2 gigs of RAM took that long to compile mencoder last night) :-)
Not that I'm defending it - I use SLES for my server here anyway
Or keying the teachers car with the initials of the jerk you don't like in your class. Gotcha ya pocker, 3 months detention and 200 repair bill. Seriously if I wanted to pock over some dood at work I'd frame him with a leak.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
Fine: OOB experience. The purpose of WHS is not to be a personal web/email/etc server. It's to be a plug and play device on your home network which will take care of automated backups shared media storage and streaming, hot swappable storage that maps to a redundant shared storage pool along with free minimal-setup web access to this stuff remotely. Basically, this is for your mom, the user who "doesn't know what they're doing," not the uber geek who wants an ssh tunnel to their home proxy server so work doesn't know they've been chatting online all day and shopping for golf clubs. It's also meant as a platform for "always on" services such as home automation etc that wouldn't otherwise be reliable in the hands of a novice user who doesn't understand that it won't work when it's turned off. It actually looks pretty cool, if for no other reason than the fact that the storage is easily expandible with the system on. Because of the redundant hot-swappable storage, you can just pull out your smallest drive and pop in a bigger one when you run out of space - while the machine is on.
Are they absolutely certain that the guy's name actually is Richard and he didn't just make up the name to throw MS off the scent?
Technoli
Anyone have a torrent of this so called leak?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
WHS:
Intended for users who have never seen or touched a server OS.
Redundant storage and hot pluggable drives for those for whom RAID is an insect spray can.
To add storage just slip in another drive and you are good to go.
Automated backups for every system on the net. Recover older versions of files. Single instance storage
Remote access and administration. Remote control over the web --- again, intended for users who have no experience in any of this.
If I bought this for my mom, it would be years before she would loan me money again and that's just not something I'm prepared to do. And if you think she'd buy it on her own, well you don't know my mom. :)
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Read up on the Reviewers Guide document that comes with the beta if you are so interested. /.
I don't think people will be foolish enough to break their NDAs on
likely it would have been a specific build for the testers only that was leaked.
Insiders doing it would probably have access to a great many test builds, not just the one sent to the externals. However insiders would also have fabulously well paid jobs and severe contractual penalties for doing something this stupid. Not the kind of people likely to risk all for a leaked test build.
Besides, what would be the career consequences for someone being denounced by Microsoft for doing a thing like that? The closed source OS world, Microsoft in particular, are not forgiving of such things. Never working in the field again would spring to mind.
I'd go for someone being over confident about security and letting another person steal it by neglect, rather than intentionally.
If by some bizarre chance is was deliberate, then they're so stupid they need to be culled from the industry anyway.
"Dick leaks, causes embarassment."
That's not really front page news now, is it?
... because we all know that everyone uses thier real name when online.. Especially when revealing company secrets.
God Be Gone
I'm sorry this does sound kinda cool for a Windows environment, but in the Linux world, WHS looks a day late and a dollar short.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Wouldn't it be funny if all of them contacted MS, claiming to be this Richard?
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
"Intended for users who have never seen or touched a server OS."
Yeah, that's the supposed Idea. I remember when they pitched that line for NT, too.
"Redundant storage and hot pluggable drives for those for whom RAID is an insect spray can."
If you don't know what RAID is, why would you bother specing a home-pc with hot swappable drives?
"To add storage just slip in another drive and you are good to go."
Yeah, assuming you got a server chassis with hot swappable drives. Which, by definition, the end-user this is targeted at doesn't.
"Automated backups for every system on the net. Recover older versions of files. Single instance storage"
Yeah, that's a good pitch, too. So far? Vapor-ware!
"Remote access and administration. Remote control over the web --- again, intended for users who have no experience in any of this."
Oh, there's a security hole just waiting for a portscan to come along!
This is aimed at Fanbois who just don't have the brains to make the leap to Ubuntu or Fedora.
IOW, A cute toy.
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
Fine, maybe not your mom, but there certainly is a class of people who have increasing amounts of media - family photos, music collections, home videos stored across their various machines (their laptop, the old family computer, work etc) who would see the benefit of having this all in one place that they could get at from anywhere.
People like this want the equivalent of a digital wallet where they can show off pictures of the kids at work or at parents. It's that kind of person, along with the consumer electronics geek (the kind who buys media center extenders) who seems to be the target market.
Microsoft Pressures Testers After Software Leak
When I first saw the topic, I've imagined that microsoft is involved with piping at oil industry, where "pressure test" is a procedure to find the leakage.
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
I hate to break it to you, MS, but the higher-end linksys routers (for about $100) now have a usb port where I can stick a hard drive and share it with all the network even if I'm not real computer literate. Likewise, the airport extreme from apple does the same.
I'm not sure what all your "home server" does, but coming from you it probably uses far more hardware than most people want to buy for the purpose and it probably locks me into using one of your buggy, insecure operating systems to access it. Put another way, you're going to have a tough time convincing people who want to have a hard drive shared on the network (probably 99.99% of all people who would want a "server" in the house) to go with your buggy crap rather than the linksys router.
I might be wrong, and laugh at me in 10 years if I am, but I really think you guys are getting in a huff because someone leaked your latest "Microsoft Bob" to the world.
By the way, the people who downloaded it probably didn't do so to use it; it was probably most hackers getting their paws on it to figure out how to break into it.
Do you have ESP?
So lucky for Microsoft that the leak wasn't posted by somebody with username "Bill".
Paid Q&A/Research
Want a Windows Home Server? Load a copy of Linux/*BSD and Samba on to a spare PC.
Want to save some power, desk space, and money on hardware?
http://www.simpletech.com/commercial/simpleshare/
Here is a Linux package without the bulk and power requirements of a PC. The wall wart to power it is rated at 36 Watts max. It provides disk encryption, user based or share based access control, SMB and nfs. With the addition of external USB drives it provides RAID mirroring and striping. If you don't use RAID, it can simply expand using external USB drives. If you are not using both USB ports for drives, it can be used as a USB printserver.
For the ultimate geek, the firmware is hackable. You can add telenet for example. No warranty for making a brick however.
Units other than the 160 Gig model have a 3 year warranty. (I've used it. I mis-configured the software by enabling user based rights and share password based rights (a no-no that is not documented) and they recovered it under warranty.
Drive spin-down works except under version 1.07 of the firmware where drive health monitoring keeps it awake.
The truth shall set you free!
1) Single instance store automatic differential backups. none of this shitty "dd" stuff; this compares each 4 kb block with a database on the server and only uploads ones that have a different hash. Very efficient and very nice.
Sort of like rsync, bacula, amanda?
2) Automatic warnings if any Windows machine on your network has AV or AntiSpyware turned off.
With *nix, we have essential services started automatically at boot time. I'd be interested to know if it checks for Microsoft AV and antispyware software only, or any companies. If MS only, possible antitrust violation here.
3) Automatic warnings if any of your machines has not backed up in the last several days. (and the software will wake machines from sleep mode to do the backup and then have them go back to sleep).
Easily set up on Linux, I presume *BSD also.
4) Ability to serve as a remote control gateway to your computers (where you go to the website of the server and can initiate secured remote desktop sessions to your other machines from there with only 2 ports forwarded to the server and none to any other machines.
Remember the GP's request? "Please tell us what features Microsoft Home Server has that are not available for free and already in widespread use on the net under Linux." Why would you even bring up remote desktop sessions?
But then again, I have actually tried the beta instead of just making shit up about it.
Yes, but you didn't mention any useful features not available in linux/*BSD for free. 1,3 and 4 are available and included in mainstream linux disto's (again, I presume *BSD also, but easily obtainable if not). Without further info, 2 seems possibly aimed at increasing Microsoft marketshare of security products, despite (so I hear) being among the worst available, and even if it isn't, it doesn't seem very useful. Set up your AV etc to run as desired.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
M$ had better be careful. This "Dick" may have a shotgun and have the last name of "Cheney"
Friends don't let friends line-dance.
For right now, you have no access to the beta until I can find the Richard who posted the WHS (Windows Home Server) CTP on this site.... I will work with the Connect Admin team to determine which one of you is the real culprit of this leak.'
It's great to know that a corporation always has plenty of funds for a witch-hunt even if product security is sacrificed due to "budget constraints"...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
You mean technophile CEOs in love with M$ that will have the IT guys come out their house to have this installed, them and fanbois that are sick of being PWND1! by Linux hackers. I can't wrap my head around this being much more than competition for Linux in the hobbyist market or some crapola frontpage for networks.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
If this was Apple, we would get a bunch of people bitching about Apple's secrecy, like we always do. Kudos on the "I'm pointing out Slashdot double standards, mod me up!" karma whore routine, though. It's a worthy classic.
And you're wrong, there will be plenty of Microsoft shills defending Microsoft.
"Sufferin' succotash."
You'll be that Dick, I mean, that Richard? I wouldn't..
:-P
home
Gosh darn it, I wish I had mod points. Next time, try posting when I still have them, m'kay???
I don't care why you're posting AC
It sucks to be Dick.
Unless this person was exceptionally stupid and brags about it, they are home free. Their ISP will *not* release the information.
Of course, this does bring out that simply having someone sign an NDA in today's climate means nothing. If you release a product to beta testers, they are going to feel free to distribute it to potential competitors worldwide without any fear of retribution. Why? Because it can be done and it isn't going to be traceable.
I suppose you could watermark each copy that is distributed. It would be a hassle to do and still probably not really mean all that much. Yes, you might then be able to visit some kind of retribution on the person that did it. Do you really think they are going to care? I think most people these days would regard having letters sent to their employer from Microsoft as sort of a merit badge of achievement, even if it got them fired.
Any sort of anonyminity will result in this kind of behavior. Most people - not everyone, but most - will do things they would never consider doing if they believe their actions cannot be traced back to them. Would you rob a bank or steal someone's wallet? Most people would not. Would you pick up a wallet in an alley that was clearly abandoned and take whatever was inside? Most people would if they were sure nobody would see them. Nobody sees you on the Internet, and the ISPs believe they have an interest in keeping users isolated from consequences of their actions.
WIM is a mashup of existing technologies reformulated in to a proprietary format, nothing else. Cron and tar is what I called a hack, I use it for the most important stuff like /home and /etc. I don't need some fancy image space saver because there is never duplicate files in my backups each only backs up what was modified since last week, really simple actually. Just three backups of the stuff most likely to break for the past three weeks.
If they have 3rd party software that works fine too. Mine has McAfee (came with it) and that AV and Anti Spy works fine with it. So do all the others.Fair enough, but what if I have systems that don't run AV or antispyware, what if I also have a Mac on the network or a Debian box? Sorry, but I can ask questions about this all day.
What if they don't run because the machine has a dependency issue or some other software broke the backup?All the more reason to use cron and tar or stay in the official repository of your favorite distribution. For home users I suspect the most likely reason for missing a backup will be that the computer wasn't on to begin with. Which will be really annoying when every time they start their computer they get a warning and a slowed network while the backup system commences or even just pokes it's nose around their computer.
No, but it is very nice and it is a lot easier to setup for a real home user than most anything else.Back to the point, *nix has offered all of this and more for YEARS. The usability aspect can be patched together over Google's summer of code by some moderately intelligent CS sophomore. I'm happy Windows users will be able to poke their noses out of the cave a little bit, but don't go on acting like Microsoft has something *nix doesn't, cause *nix has had it for years and Microsoft's implementation is barely in beta. Microsoft is playing catch up again and calling it innovation, nothing to see here.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
"Automatic warnings if any Windows machine on your network has AV or AntiSpyware turned off."
You mean like when you have to turn off "OneCARE" because it won't allow Flight Simulator X to install on Vista. I thought my DVD was bad, but turning off OneCARE fixed it and allowed it to install.
You'd think OneCARE would have at least some smarts on not virus checking an MS DVD.
Stupid Vista. It's now been erased and replaced with Ubunutu 7.0x Feisty.
-- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
A GUI that's forced on you to take up valuable resources. And sound effects!
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
That was my first reaction.
Msft: Who leaked this onto a newsgroup?
Lackey: The username on the account was "Richard."
Msft: Richard who?
Lackey: We don't know. The account name is just "Richard."
Msft: Suspend all priveledges to anyone with a "Richard" in their name!
Lackey: Sir, yes sir!
Msft: Man, this Richard guy is a real dick.
Lackey: *snickers*
Msft: What?
Well, what can we say?
The typical Microsoft=Evil bash aside, their response was rather understandable and logical. They have beta-software, and they have low number of people who a previewing/testing that software. That software ends up leaked on the internet. Thus the only logical conclusion is that (at least) one of those people is responsible for the leak.
Assuming that leaks is not what you want and that somebody who leaked software before, will do so again, it is best to freeze the entire process until the one(s) responsible has been found. Also assuming that they accepted a NDA (the usual stuff forfeiting your propery, soul, and firstborn) this one guy or gal will not be in a happy place.
So, all in all, its nothing extraordinary.
+++ MELON MELON MELON +++ Out of Cheese Error +++ redo from start +++
I am not sure why Microsoft thinks we need personal server software. That's software that takes all our files and makes them available on the internet, right? I think I get a dozen of those e-mailed to me every day. They are usualy from my "Support Team" with titles like "Worm Activity Detected!" Heck I bet most Windows users have one or two of thoses programs running right now.
Or Steve. And mention at some point that some problem made you throw chairs.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Community Technology Preview (CTP), ok WHS (Windows Home Server), not ok
Based on the little that is known, the most obvious explanation is that this leak was intended to be discovered (there's no shortage of far more public sites that would offer far greater protection to the person involved) and that in turn makes the idea that an actual "Richard" was involved much less likely.
We won't know until the culprit is found (if they ever are, and if we ever have any reason to believe that anyone unmasked isn't simply a convenient scapegoat) but if I were in this Kevin's shoes, I'd be far more interested in gathering information than issuing threats. For that matter, Mandatory Access Controls have existed for decades. Why was such valuable IP even placed under a discretionary access control system?
(For those not familiar with MAC, it's a concept popularized by the US military but widely used in any secure environment. The idea is that the controls prohibit a user from copying to a location with weaker controls. In the military, you don't want people copying Top Secret files into an unclassified filespace or reassigning them to a user of lower classification, for example. So you simply program the access controls to block any such transfer. Properly implemented, there is no "superuser" - no need of one - and there is no possible way of violating permission boundaries directly or through privilege escalation.)
Yes, this is theft. So would be taking a hundred dollar bill nailed to the gatepost. At some point, a little personal responsibility is called for and a few reasonable precautions should be taken. Kevin Beares' bosses should be asking why neither has happened here - although that might be asking a bit much of Microsoft. Failure to secure trade secrets has, in the past, been grounds for courts to nullify the protections on those trade secrets, and undue harassment by employers of employees has spawned its own lawsuits. (If a Richard isn't found soon, with definite blood on hands, harassment suits can't be far behind.)
This is a very ugly situation for Microsoft to be in and they are hardly an innocent party as they have clearly shown they are not using suitable methods to protect that which is theirs. In a world that has been manipulated into believing there's a bogeyman hiding in every server cupboard, being able to protect your own is key to keeping the confidence of customers. The rights and wrongs are totally a side issue in all of this. The fact it was even possible is everything.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I don't like Microsofts usual business practices, but this looks cool.
I have a very similar setup already but it wasn't "simple enough for Mom" to set up, and I don't have the server warning me about Antivirus or spyware. I think there will be a market for something like this as long as Microsoft isn't too greedy with their pricing. I highly doubt that home users would even consider using a linux server for this job, but I also think that home users would be interested once they see something like this set up. I know we've been talking "convergance" (sp?) for years, but this might actually help. People are going to want to play media on the tv in the living room and have their songs available to all their computers. I think it's only a matter of time until this becomes the norm. I know that the people that have seen my network in action love it.
Shit, 5 years ago hardly anyone had more than one computer in the house... now networks are common.
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
Is it really such a wise idea to let that sort of people out on the internet, let alone near a server of any kind, irregardless of how user friendly?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
That's because Apple actually has a need to do this: Apple has managed to create a mystique surrounding their product releases. Microsoft revealing a new product is about as exciting as the supreme court justices taking off their robes.
Why is Microsoft even putting a lot of work into WHS? Most people have already moved onto DWD. :P
Carbon based humanoid in training.
Is it the new "in" thing around here to authoritatively speak about something one is totally ignorant about? Read up on WHS before speaking more so you don't make yourself look even more foolish.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Should have posted it under the username SteveBallmer
+5, Truth
Wonderful. All we need are even more boxes, running Microsoft "spambot-ready" software, administered by people with no clue how to really protect a system.
Nothing like thousands or millions of always-on bots, filtering keystrokes, launching DDOS attacks, spamming everyone in any e-mail to/from list that happens to pass through.
I for one do not welcome our new incompetent spam-bot non-administrator overlords.
If you have something relevant to add, perhaps addressing my individual points would have been more productive.
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
Dark Helmet: Careful you idiot! I said across her nose, not up it!
Laser Gunner: Sorry sir! I'm doing my best!
Dark Helmet: Who made that man a gunner?
Major Asshole: I did sir. He's my cousin.
Dark Helmet: Who is he?
Colonel Sandurz: He's an asshole sir.
Dark Helmet: I know that! What's his name?
Colonel Sandurz: That is his name sir. Asshole, Major Asshole!
Dark Helmet: And his cousin?
Colonel Sandurz: He's an asshole too sir. Gunner's mate First Class Philip Asshole!
Dark Helmet: How many asholes do we have on this ship, anyway?
[Entire bridge crew stands up and raises a hand]
Entire Bridge Crew: Yo!
Dark Helmet: I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes!
[Dark Helmet pulls his face shield down]
Dark Helmet: Keep firing, assholes!
http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
The target market is for people who don't install the OS themselves-- they buy a computer from an OEM with the hardware and OS preinstalled. The OEM will make sure that the drives are hot-swappable and such. Adding new drives and merging them into a RAID is done automatically and silently upon plugging the drive in. They'll be happy to make sure you buy only their specially branded "WHS compatible" hot swappable drives for that purpose. I would be surprised if a retail version is even available on shelves.
Single instance storage has existed since at least Windows 2000. The "recover older versions" thing is connected to the "older versions" shell extension, also connected to volume shadow copies, giving you the option to restore from both known backups on file and local VSS copies of a file. Automated remote backups aren't hard to implement with file sharing, and I would think that WHS comes with some simple UI to set it up, with which workstations to backup and corresponding credentials on each.
Remote control uses RDP. I think it will be configured to accept only connections on the local network, and will certainly require some kind of authentication.
See also:
Windows Home Server on Wikipedia
A demo video from MS
an OEM offering from HP
They don't necessarily have to build their own machine. HP will have MediaMart Server, which is a headless machine with support for hot-swappable drives and will run Windows Home Server.
Several thousand are participating in the beta, and there's a forum full of people using it. Yep, sounds like vapor-ware to me.
Off by default.
WHS automatically replicates data across all attached hard drives, which can be internal/external and of different sizes, and will also automatically backup all my networked machines without duplicating files. If Ubuntu/Fedora can do that, then please enlighten me.
hmmm...maybe it was Richard's ex-girlfriend mcay
Microsoft will get their hands on the leaky Dick any minute now. Their only hope is to come clean before then.
>>For right now, you have no access to the beta until I can find the Richard who posted the WHS (Windows Home Server) CTP on this site...
all beta testers for WHS should maintain solidarity with the N-1 wrongfully (and stupidly) abused "Richard" testers and tell MS: For right now, you have no beta program for WHS until you stop being dicks with your Dicks.
Microsoft's special ops are probably hunting down every man named "dick"
you forgot:
..." Secure, MS? hahahahaohohohheeheehee
5. "Windows Home Server is a new version of the Windows OS that lets users set up secure networks of PCs at home
1,3,and 4 can all be done easier with *nix, 2 is to be avoided at all costs.
Just another pie in the sky money grab attempt by MS.
If you don't drink their koolaide, there's nothing to see here, move along.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
nobody's going to believe you're a real, unpaid poster.
True. I thought that after I hit send. Maybe I should have posted several other NAS in a box items. I have 2 of these and use them for media storage instead of a PC. It's cheaper to use a NAS then upgrade 3 PC's and 2 laptops with larger drives. My P-III only has a 30 Gig drive and my laptop only has a 20. They both play movies from the servers just fine. It saves lots of local storage space for files used all over the house.
Linksys, Buffalo, Seagate, and others also have NAS solutions. I picked the one I did because of the encryption. If it is shut off or powered down the encrypted shares do not auto mount on power up. I use that for my tax returns, banking info, and other sensitive information. If you walk off with my drive, good luck.
1 The configuration menu is password protected. A factory reset will fix that.
2 The encrypted partition won't mount without entering the encryption key even after a factory reset. No key, no data recovery. You can delete the encrypted partition, but not access it. I like that.
The truth shall set you free!
Yeah, that's the supposed Idea. I remember when they pitched that line for NT, too.
I don't recall NT ever being pitched as a consumer OS --- as for WHS: Windows Home Server Beta 2 Screenshot Gallery Part 2: Client Install & Configuration
If you don't know what RAID is, why would you bother specing a home-pc with hot swappable drives?
"To add storage just slip in another drive and you are good to go."
Yeah, assuming you got a server chassis with hot swappable drives. Which, by definition, the end-user this is targeted at doesn't.
Wrong again. The user doesn't have to spec anything.
Internal/External. ATA/SATA. USB/Firewire. None of this matters to WHS. Everything available is added to the general store.
HP MediaSmart Server Up to 6TB of storage.
Drives are set into cartridges. There's no need for the user to crack open the case. No need need for him to know or care about the system internals. Should hit the market around September.
"Automated backups for every system on the net. Recover older versions of files. Single instance storage"
Yeah, that's a good pitch, too. So far? Vapor-ware!
Not Vapor-ware. A Beta-2. Or else why play for geek-points by leaking the program to the web?
"Remote access and administration. Remote control over the web --- again, intended for users who have no experience in any of this."
Oh, there's a security hole just waiting for a portscan to come along!
"Microsoft is providing WHS users with a free Internet address via Windows Live. This address will give you a remote interface into your entire home network, not just WHS. You will be able to access any shared folders remotely, or even control individual PCs remotely.
This technology, which is based on remote access functionality in Windows Small Business Server, will let consumers do things like upload photos from a kiosk from a remote part of the world, download files they need while on the road, or enjoy recorded TV shows while they're on vacation. Microsoft will also allow you to pick a vanity Internet address through Windows Live Domains if you'd like something more custom.
Incidentally, the remote access functionality is free in that you won't be paying any annual or monthly fees, it's just a part of the benefit of using WHS." Windows Home Server Preview, Windows Home Server Points Way to Next SBS
This is aimed at Fanbois who just don't have the brains to make the leap to Ubuntu or Fedora
It's aimed at users who don't know what a fan boy is and can't tell a Fedora from a Stetson.
Price out some hot swap chassis then.
i d=1236 ) or this ( http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_info.php/produ cts_id/1708 ) which basically puts a proprietary hotswap-aware controller in front of each drive, encased in a chassis, to work around IDE's limitations. The end cost is going to be more than SuperMicro's low-end hot swap SATA chassis (I LOVE those chassis, BTW, and if the fans weren't so darn loud I'd have gone supermicro on my new machine like I did on my old one). Wholesale pricing on quality hot swap chassis is over $400, unless you're prepared to buy in volume. NOT consumer hardware.
You won't see any at Best Buy or CompUSA.
Joe Sixpack consumers who buy boards with Intel Matrix chipsets can hot swap, but will the chassis their systems are installed in make hot swap easy, or even possible, without laying a drive next to the chassis until powering down is convenient (I know, it's a home system, but hot swap is an advertised feature so bear with me)?
Even worse: is Microsoft NOT advertising hot swap based on Matrix or a similar RAID-equipped chipset, but software RAID? What about IDE drives? You're NOT going to hot swap IDE on a consumer board in a consumer chassis; you WILL fry components. That would be true of most server boards as well; you need something like this ( http://www.scsi4me.com/product_info.php?products_
Worst: is this the software RAID Windows has had for years? Supporting hot swap now? If you're running a pure software RAID in Windows on a Matrix or similar hybrid chipset solution, you're a moron and deserve what comes with Windows' software RAID solution. I can understand running software RAID on a matrix board if you're running Linux or BSD (since neither kernel natively supports RAID for boot drives) but on Windows it's pure stupidity.
Back to the point: if RAID is an advertised feature, and consumer hardware doesn't support hotswap or makes it very difficult, parent's point is totally valid.
So what will the Home Server product be? Not having seen it (my MSDN subscriptions ran out LONG ago) all I can guess is that it will push advertising into the grey areas of legality just like the Vista sticker did: sure, it'll support hot swap RAID*
*But only if you have a hot swap chipset (figure $150 min for a quality board with Matrix) and hot swap chassis
In any case, this has been deliverable on Windows XP (a home OS) for years now, since most workstation boards supporting Hot Swap have supported Windows XP from the beginning.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Quick, somebody get a username steve_ballmer and upload it. bill_gates, too.
He hooked you up? Why? Do you have laser-vision? Are you some kind of robot? If so, do you use your powers for good or for awesome?
Just fyi, 1 is rsync. I don't know of equivalents for the other features off the top of my head.
Why not fork?
Cute. So my nick is Mondor. And if I would be fan of Richard Plantagenet the LionHeart, it would be Richard. And being fan of Roger Zelazni it would be, say, Corwin or Merlin... :)
I already imagine M$ digging its user system for all LionHearts and Corwins. You see, their authentication system is based on e-mail address and password, and you are free to input whatever name you want, it doesn't have to be real. But anyway, being fan of king Richard I wouldn't put his name as my real name anyway.
But I don't question the logic of Microsoft - I don't even believe such thing exists.
If it was anywhere near as simple as you put it, then why don't you start selling machines that do exactly this? There's definitely a market for it. The software won't cost you anything (free/open source) from what you seem to say. You make it sound like it's ridiculously simple (just playing catch up, no innovation, etc). On 500$ for a similar product you should be able to make a decent amount of profit (no software costs).
Actually, AC, I'm about to set this very thing up for my brother in law. His existing hardware, free software and a small amount of my time at no monetary charge. It's not a business for me, but he does provide me with his services as an arborist, for which most people get charged.
Hey, you could even sell beefier versions to enterprises of varying sizes for more $ (and also get support contracts: $$$!)
I got beaten to the market by IBM and Sun.
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I highly doubt that home users would even consider using a linux server for this job
They will if someone sets it up for them, which as I mentioned in another post I am doing for my brother in law (not a "power user" by any standard. MS has essentially set it up for them, the equivalent is to have someone set it up or sell them a preconfigured box.
An important benefit is that if the backups are required as a result of malware infection, the backup server is not vulerable to the same malware as the client.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
Money is the root of all evil?
> Adding new drives and merging them into a RAID is done automatically and silently upon plugging the drive in.
Will this be RAID 1 or higher levels?
Actually, it seems to be selective mirroring at the file level, so it's like RAID1 for the files and directories that you ask to have mirrored. I don't know how may pieces of WS2003 are included, but you may be able to build a software RAID5 dynamic disk set manually.
I was thinking of doing something like that, but I still like a gui. (I know, Linux blashphemy)
What are you going to use? I used to like Sme Server.
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
You might as well suggest a 486 and a suitable assembler. You can get all the power of a basic domain with any modest hardware you can network if you can write code for it. My mum would have as much chance setting up a *nix server as she would writing one in x86 assembly, so the end result would be the same.
It never ceases to amaze me how many /. geeks just don't Get It. The fact that you or I may be able to make a *nix box dance on its hind legs while singing the Swiss national anthem does not make it a good choice for the average Joe looking for a dancing, singing machine. The majority can't make a *nix box walk, let alone dance and sing.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
What are you going to use? I used to like Sme Server.
Backuppc on CentOS. I think he will find the web interface easier to handle. SME Server is based on CentOS anyway, but I only looked at it after reading your post.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/