Slashdot Mirror


OLPC to Run Windows, Come to the US

An anonymous reader writes "'Yesterday Nicholas Negroponte, former director of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Lab and current head of the nonprofit One Laptop Per Child project, gave analysts and journalists an update on the OLPC project. Two big changes were announced — the $100 OLPC is now the $175 OLPC, and it will be able to run Windows. Even in a market where there are alternatives to using Windows and Office, there's a huge demand for Microsoft software. The OLPC was seen as a way for open source Linux distributions to achieve massive exposure in developing countries, but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux. Details are sketchy but Negroponte did confirm that the XO's developers have been working with Microsoft to get the OLPC up to spec for Windows.' We also find out that the OLPC gets a price hike and will officially come to the US. Could this be tied into Microsoft's new $3 Windows XP Starter and Office 2007 bundle? Now that the OLPC and Intel's Classmate PC can both run Windows, is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"

84 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Bill Gates' criticism by MarkByers · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess Bill Gates is going to stop criticizing the project now that it supports Windows...

    --
    I'll probably be modded down for this...
    1. Re:Bill Gates' criticism by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · · Score: 2

      as long as they don't run Linux, Bill will be happy.

    2. Re:Bill Gates' criticism by goombah99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bill will love the market share. But he may not like the rampant virus incubator that is created. 30 million unpatched copies of Windows are going to be 15 million more bots. Windows might get a black eye.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  2. Price of Dollar and System upgrades by Marcion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now the system has 256MB of Ram and a slightly better processor, so yes it could now run Windows in theory. However as they always say, this is an educational project not a laptop project, and they are of course going to go with the stunning Sugar interface.

    The dollar has fallen in value quite a lot, next month we'll no doubt see $250 OLPC if it keeps slipping.

    1. Re:Price of Dollar and System upgrades by at_slashdot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which Windows, XP? Wasn't Microsoft supposed to cease "manufacturing" XP by the end of this year? Even XP is a dog on 256MB or RAM I want to see how they will put Vista on that, and if they want to stick with XP what's the support plan for XP?

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    2. Re:Price of Dollar and System upgrades by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The dollar has fallen quite a lot? Most of the components in the OLPC are from China or USA. Over the last two years the dollar has lost a whopping 6.6% against the yuan. So I seriously doubt that FX has been a major factor in the OLPC price.

  3. Wow, what a setback by tomstdenis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know what's next ... the XO's in the real field [e.g. 3rd world nations] will start shipping with Windows instead of their OSS tools.

    Yeah, MSFT won again!

    I wonder how much it cost MSFT to buy them off....

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:Wow, what a setback by DogDude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's an "XO"?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
  4. Come on by chuckymonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I get the feeling sometimes that the heads at M$ have a robber baron complex. They stole ideas and software so much that they feel bad and try to give back somehow as well as force their crap on unsuspecting indiginous peoples. I just don't think that this is necessarily a good venue for them. First I think that it'll actually degrade the performance of the machine and what happens when all these machines get out in the world and they mesh network a virus? (if this doesn't make much sense please break out a decoder ring, I'm 11 1/2 hours into my shift at 5:30 in the morning) It seems to me that it would create a lot more problems than it's worth, not to mention that for kids in the developing world the XO interface looks like it's more language/culture neutral than a windows style interface. Oh and last I checked every dollar counts in this thing, most developing countries don't have a ton of money to throw at these so the cheaper the better, so an extra few dollars per machine may not seem like a lot to us but for where they're going and the numbers that are estimated it adds up pretty quickly.

    --
    "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
  5. Another thought by chuckymonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know I just posted a second ago but I also had a thought. Is M$ maybe trying to get all these people using and programming with Windows so that they can set up Developer sweatshops similar to clothing lines? I do remember some exec saying at one time something about developers developers developers........ *stares stupidly at chair flying towards head*

    --
    "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
  6. Your panties are in a bunch... by Rotten168 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    just because it *can* run Windows? As in, just the possibility upsets you? Folks, get some perspective will ya'?

    1. Re:Your panties are in a bunch... by tomstdenis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is people like me fear that OLPC was bought off, and that the promise of a really open and accessible laptop for students has died.

      You think it's hard to get proper tech support in the 1st world? Try it in a field school somewhere 500 miles away from the nearest large city. Running windows as opposed to the hardened linux they were developing is just inviting every random malware and virus to hop a ride through their laptops rendering them useless.

      Also a lot of the innovative features like the grouping and shared sessions [as well as tailor made games/activities] probably won't be ported [or well] to Windows, leaving the kids with a really large lack of useful software.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    2. Re:Your panties are in a bunch... by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It bothers me when ANYTHING related to Microsoft or Windows affects the upstream hardware being developed in ANY FUCKING WAY.

      I swear if *ANYTHING* on that OLPC unit changes to suit Microsoft or people who want to put windows on it, shit is going to start flying...

      This is not a consumer PC, it does NOT need to be able to run multiple systems, and you DO NOT need a choice. This is a totally custom, embedded system for children who don't have running water, the fact that it uses standard hardware and the Linux kernel is irrelevant. If we start compromising to allow for sales in the US and other developed countries to use windows, we will have ruined the original idea, which was to make a system that children in 3rd world countries could obtain, use easily, and maintain without any sort of support from the manufacturer.

  7. An offer he couldn't refuse by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 4, Funny

    > but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux.

    Not surprising that Negroponte changed his mind. Waking up and finding that chair in his bed must have really rattled him.

  8. Anti competitive move? by nietsch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If MS can charge $3 for their software, but in other venues charge more then 300 for nearly the same, can that be considered as anti-competitive dumping?
    Let's just hope that the next US government will break up Bills empire and throw the upper management in jail.

    If the price rises $75, that can be considered a $75 windos tax, that is 42%!

    --
    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
  9. Re:Vista ready? by Varun+Soundararajan · · Score: 3, Funny

    with puny 256MB Ram I m sure it wont. Vista requires atleast 1 GB of RAM for a "non-sluggish" preformance. Someone joked that you need Google's Infrastructure to run Vista to its full speed.

    Obligatory Disclosure: that someone is me :)

  10. Re:Instant solution by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Make OLPC's CPU non-x86. Windows is portable like... Like... Like... It's not.

    Windows NT started on the Alpha processors, later was ported to x86. In recent years it was ported to x64 and Itanium (Itanium share nothing with x86 except the company that made them).

    Don't invent problems where there aren't.

  11. Why 256Mb? by mangu · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I still have a 1999 vintage Sony Vaio laptop with 64Mb RAM and 333MHz Pentium II running Linux with Kde version 2. It runs fine, at about 1kg weight it's an excellent machine for its original purpose. I also have a 1996 model Acer laptop with 16Mb RAM and a 166MHz Pentium CPU running Slackware with a fvwm GUI.


    Unless they can offer those 256Mb of RAM at a lower price than a smaller memory, it's a waste of resources. Better make an effort to lower that price than try to make it run windows. What next, the $999 OLPC to run a $300 Vista Starter Edition?

    1. Re:Why 256Mb? by Marcion · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Until last year I had 64MB and 200MHz Pentium I, however I used the command line and Emacs/Lynx/Mutt/Mplayer/Python etc which are all written in C and optimised for that, I was also running Gentoo (compiled by a bigger machine over the network) to squeeze out all the unneeded compile options etc.

      The OLPC are using GTK+ and want to be able to run a Mozilla based browser and Java and so on and have a high quality, child-focused, graphical experience, so 128MB is a minimum really, plus there is no graphics chip so you will need a certain extra amount to draw X etc. My new Macbook has a similar setup and does not take more than 80MB, at least on Linux.

    2. Re:Why 256Mb? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OEMs do not pay anything close to the retail price for Windows. The Starter Edition might not cost $50 each, though a system powerful enough to run Vista acceptably should be left to the existing market.

      256MB may be the new minimum memory module for mass production. Which is fine, if the marginal cost is low enough. Usually, at the low end, there is a minimum where going below that isn't worth it because you make massive sacrifices to save a tiny percentage of money. There's little point in saving a paltry sum to get half the memory or less.

    3. Re:Why 256Mb? by dhasenan · · Score: 3, Informative

      The OLPC interface was optimized for the machine. From the screenshots I saw, it didn't take up much space with textures and such; just about everything could be drawn with a minimal amount of SVG, which means you can spend slightly more CPU time and save on RAM.

      Also most of the applications are more or less custom, designed or modified to save on RAM and CPU time. Windows XP...could be, but I somehow doubt it would be that easy. If they said it was based on Windows Mobile, I'd be less skeptical.

    4. Re:Why 256Mb? by mangu · · Score: 2, Informative
      Why doesn't the OLPC run a sister project based purely on old hardware donations from across the world?


      This question has been asked and answered in their wiki.


      I have been asking this myself. Why not? I once met someone who did exactly this. He organized a group in his church to collect and recycle old computers and give lessons to school dropouts in poor neighborhoods.


      However, as the wiki I linked above says, it doesn't scale well. To organize a large scale effort in this way you would need a network of people with talent for organization, technical ability, and interest for helping the needy. It's not easy to find enough people with all of those qualifications.

    5. Re:Why 256Mb? by kimvette · · Score: 2, Informative

      Windows Mobile is actually quite nice. Microsoft was the first company to really get the PDA right - the original Palm OS sucked because the interface was annoying, it forced you to learn graffiti (despite handwriting recognition already being mature at the time, see the Newton), NO multimedia, and when M$ beat them to the punch Palm's response was that no one wants multimedia from a PDA (wrong! See tcpmp, pockettv, countless mp3 players etc.), and Palm OS did not multitask. Also, Pocket PC/Windows Mobile uses a subset of the Windows API, which makes porting lightweight applications relatively easy. Also, the PocketPC offered a lot of expansion through slots/sleds/sleeves in the early days, enabling one to add hard drives, flash cards, GPS, and a variety of other peripherals, INCLUDING video capture and CAD applications.

      So, I wouldn't rule out Windows Mobile as a contender for this. More likely Microsoft would want to include an embedded limited-functionality Windows Vista to prime the market for Windows in developing nations, and that could very well be where the extra $75 in cost is going. I'd rather see Linux on the OLPC to expose people to an OS which does not restrict one's computing freedom, and to increase support and marker share of Linux, but that's just me. Microsoft is plenty persuasive and I'm sure it will ultimately ship with SOME Windows variant, since what Microsoft wants, Microsoft gets.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    6. Re:Why 256Mb? by pembo13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      this isn't a general desktop. the software was (re)designed for low specs.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    7. Re:Why 256Mb? by DMoylan · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Microsoft was the first company to really get the PDA right

      that honour i think many would agree would fall to psion (at least for anybody who has ever used one). portable. ran for a week on aa batteries. incredibly useful.

      in the early 90s here in ireland and the uk i think every accountant and architect (plus a lot of docters) seemed to have one. whenever they released a new one they fetched premium prices as people bidded to get there hands on one. it handled out of the box spreadsheets, word processing and had a built in programming language opl. pure genius.

      however as with many things victory does not favour the best. windows desktops for everybody?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_PLC
      i love that the article above mention that they got out as they faced competition from keyboardless rivals when now more and more devices are going back to keyboards. of all the portable keyboards that i have used the best is still the psion 3a.

      on the plus side the software they created ended up as symbian in 100m phones so it's not all bad.

      today my psion 5 has been replaced by a nokia e61. not perfect but still a damn sight better than any windows device i've tried.

    8. Re:Why 256Mb? by rho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Graffiti was originally a way to keep people from throwing their Newtons in the trash out of frustration because the handwriting recognition sucked so bad. It was later that Palm made a PDA around their program.

      The Palm was a good PDA. It was less expensive, it was simple, and it did 90% of what 90% of PDA buyers needed. Your complaints about the PalmOS can be turned neatly around and claimed to be features.

      That said, Graffiti2 sucks balls.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    9. Re:Why 256Mb? by evilviper · · Score: 3, Informative

      I still have a 1999 vintage Sony Vaio laptop with 64Mb RAM and 333MHz Pentium II running Linux with Kde version 2.

      Yes, but you, no doubt, have a swap partition when RAM gets full. If you were running off of a small amount of Flash storage instead, you'd have real problems.

      Not to mention that the power requirements for your laptop is more than an order of magnitude higher than the OLPC, and yet you probably don't have a WiFi router card in your notebook.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    10. Re:Why 256Mb? by evilviper · · Score: 3, Informative

      Microsoft was the first company to really get the PDA right - the original Palm OS sucked because the interface was annoying,

      PalmOS was a panacea compared to the horrific WinCE, which was the competition at the time.

      However, Windows was not the first, by a hell of a long shot. Psion was there in the earliest days, with an operating system that Windows Mobile still can't match, to this day. Hell, I would be willing to use Psion's operating system on my desktop if I could... Palm and Microsoft are both still putting out crap that needs a desktop system to accomplish anything... A decade ago, it was even worse. Yet back then on my handheld Psion, I was doing research via the web, typing entire research papers, inserting graphics, spreadsheets, charts/tables/graphs, and printing it out directly to any available printer via IR, etc.

      It worked wonderfully, despite the fact that it had over a month of battery life on 2AA batteries (rechargeables in my case), and with a mere 25MHz CPU it was still far more responsive than any of the 200MHz+ systems with WinCE (or later PalmOS machines).
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    11. Re:Why 256Mb? by shaitand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      'Palm OS did not multitask'

      Sorry thats a feature on a PDA.

      'Also, Pocket PC/Windows Mobile uses a subset of the Windows API, which makes porting lightweight applications relatively easy.'

      There is no such thing as a lightweight win32 application.

      'INCLUDING video capture and CAD applications.'

      Right, because we definately want to do video capture and CAD on a device that crawls when you try to add a note to a list of tasks.

      Sorry, but PalmOS has a better interface (the windows interface is bad enough on the desktop). It is drastically faster. a 75mhz palm device outperforms a 400mhz pocketpc. And there is far more software available.

      'that could very well be where the extra $75 in cost is going.'

      I don't know about Vista but I am sure that licensing is where most of that $75 is going. If I know Microsoft the deal gives reduced rates for the license but includes a license fee on every laptop they sell, even the linux laptops. Microsoft will justify this by claiming that pirated copies of windows are just going on those machines anyway.

      'Microsoft is plenty persuasive and I'm sure it will ultimately ship with SOME Windows variant, since what Microsoft wants, Microsoft gets.'

      Yup, it is pretty obvious the evil empire has bought and paid for the project leader.

    12. Re:Why 256Mb? by rho · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow. Your personal anecdotal evidence is compelling. I'm convinced. Truly.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
  12. Re:Vista ready? by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyone know if it will be "Vista Ready"? :)

    Right, but your battery power expires while still booting.

  13. Re:Vista ready? by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

    No,you develop a right arm like Arnold Schwarzenegger cranking the generator while its booting.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  14. Re:Windows is good for education by Hennell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Windows is designed to cater for the computer illiterate.
    How much is this actually true? Every OS needs some getting used to and if you've never used a computer before, using Linux shouldn't be any harder then using windows.
    ---
    If a picture is worth a thousand words my dissertation is going to be a dodle
    ---
  15. Re:Not News by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The news is that Microsoft couldn't get Windows to run on it without getting the OLPC project to increase their hardware specs, and instead of just telling Microsoft to go jump, they compromised and now the laptop is going to cost more.

    I said 'the news' there.. I guess I really should say 'the spin'.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  16. Re:Windows is good for education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even worse, windows is almost designed to preserve user's computer illiteracy - you don't learn how to use a computer, you rote-learn how to do some tasks using a computer running windows. The OLPC linux OS was designed to encourage exploration of what was underneath, all deliberately written in a simple programming language. The *reason* we have programmers today is because the early 8- and 16- bit platforms they grew up on encouraged exploration. My first computers came with complete schematics and a programming manual.

  17. No BIOS so how are you going to boot windows? by Marcion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >[e.g. 3rd world nations] will start shipping with Windows instead of their OSS tools.

    Well since the laptop is built with a custom OpenFirmware and a LinuxBios (kernel on the firmware), how are they going to boot Windows exactly?

  18. Re:Microsoft Tax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yes. approximately $75.

  19. The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerated by HerbieStone · · Score: 5, Informative
    From here and here

    True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
    False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.

  20. Twelve Hundred Children by Etherwalk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"

    Twelve hundred children an hour die, largely in said world, and mostly preventable deaths. (Source: UNICEF). That's things like malnutrition, lack of access to clean water, etc...

    No offense meant, but can you imagine how much we shouldn't care what kind of operating system these countries are using? There are bigger problems to worry about.

    1. Re:Twelve Hundred Children by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The one that makes it easier for them to read about how to purify water obviously - so the cheaper one since web browsers work just about everywhere.

  21. Re:Vista? by XScB · · Score: 2, Interesting

    C'mon. The OLPC is not a conventional PC nor notebook lacking a colour LCD, and a harddisk. This is going to be an embedded variant of Windows, with different features dropped.

    Either Embedded Windows XP, or much, much more likely, Windows CE. And they'll still have to up the hw spec.

  22. olpc breaks bounds on hardware - amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am using the olpc xo. (that is the name of the computer). The hardware is truly revolutionary. It is NOT just a small laptop, it is more rugged than a toughbook and as cute as an aibo. I have seen its effect on children. They immediately love it and treat it like a pet. (anthropomorphism?)

    It is also a full on computer with a fantastic screen.

    I am glad to see the opening of the hardware to other operating systems. The hardware needs to be commercially available so us geek developers can extend the software in thousands of ways. These extensions will greatly benefit the children of the developing world, and continue to bridge the divide as we all work together to build this educational tool.

  23. Re:Not News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The price has gone up because the memory and drive space have mysteriously doubled from 128MB to 256MB and 512MB to 1GB, respectively.

  24. What about Windows CE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    People seem to be wondering about Vista/XP/98. What about CE? It should run just fine on the OLPC.

  25. But can it run Windows *and* Antivirus software? by the+Haldanian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thank you Microsoft.

    Due to your intervention, the same village will now receive 40% less laptops for the same budget, and experience viruses, BSOD's and Windows bit-rot.

    They will become educated in the three R's (Reboot, Reinstall, Reformat and these devices don't come with CD drives).

    Of course, you are going to ensure that the 'productivity' software is fully 'compatible' with the Linux software, aren't you.

    But at least you won't get any competition from any emerging 3rd world IT industries, eh? Because developing on these platforms will be *so* cheap and easy. Who knows, you may force them to become amoral and pirate all your software in order to get anything done, instead of sharing GPL'd code and helping each other totally legally and morally.

    And of course you are well known for writing secure, resource efficient software that doesn't have memory leaks, and Linux is not.
    (For instance, my house firewall is definitely not a Pentium 75 with 64Mb of memory with an uptime of years).

    After all, you have to use the right tool for the job, and they exist for you, not vice versa. Their needs are your needs.

    Don't worry, if you're feeling guilty just get the Gates Foundation charity to cut their country a check. All better!

    By the way, aren't you canning XP soon? I hope they have their upgrade path sorted.

  26. Congratulations by Vexorian · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'd like to congratulate this project for becoming a total failure.

    I live in a third world country, let me say this: 175 $us is too expensive, that 75% more actually means a reduction in possible buyers by 90% (Although this statistic is totally made up, I am pretty sure this is the case, let's say 85%~95%), as a matter of fact, here it is possible to get a 'real' computer (Pentium I, which is enough for a child's computer, did you know?) for 150$us.

    And all of this so it can run windows...

    --

    Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
    1. Re:Congratulations by jozmala · · Score: 2, Informative

      They are more or less just starting at that 175$, with price going down as the costs go down.
      They estimate 25% reduction per year. That meanst that within 2 years they get it down to 100$

      --
      ©God :Copyright is exclusive right for creator to determine the use of his creation.
  27. Re:Instant solution by the+Haldanian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are you really trying to defend Windows portability by saying a defunct OS was once ported to a dead chip?

  28. That would be hysterical by gelfling · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If MS came out and said there's now a way to run Windows on the cheapest lowest powered laptop you can find. Sorry about that massive investment you wasted.

  29. Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerated

    I think you missed the bigger implication here...

    None of us care if Billy G sells a crippled, OLPC-specific version of XP dirt-cheap, in a desperate bid to promote Windows adoption in the 3rd world. Exposing people to "Starter Edition" would most likely do more to promote Linux use than compete with it.

    Given the price and specs change, and Microsoft's announcement of "embracing" the OLPC, some of us can't help but but 2 and 2 together and get 4. A decent Linux system doesn't need 256MB, while XP can barely run its own Explorer interface, much less any additional programs (and I wouldn't even want to try any of the Office apps such as Word) on anything less.



    As the biggest issue here, you need to look at this from two perspectives - Ours, as (most likely) middle-class geeks posting from a Western nation viewing this as a really cool (and still exceedingly cheap) compromise between a palmheld and a laptop and cheap enough to consider nearly disposeable; And a third-world school looking at a total budget of $150 per year, trying to decide if they should buy an OLPC or rebuild the school that washed away in the annual spring mudslide.

    Cheap toys vs still-expensive tools.



    And lest you take that as baseless speculation, "However, Negroponte disclosed that XO's developers have been working with Microsoft Corp. so a version of Windows can run on the machines as well". No, not a "side effect". Boost the specs and boost the price just so Microsoft can play along.

    I wonder how much Nick Negroponte's soul cost Mr. Gates...

  30. This is VERY VERY bad news by Wonderkid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The brilliance of the OLPC project is the almost crash proof simplicity of the product. A fresh start. For anyone who has used a (now defunct) Psion Organiser, one of the easiest to use and reliable (albiet unconnected) PDAs ever launched anywhere in the world, a user friendly stable GUI is what empowers people to focus on the task at hand, not the device. Think Toaster, Microwave or iPod. As a Mac user who has just spent two weeks playing with Vista, I wish to state as a software designer that MS products are a hindrance, not a tool for productivity. The majority of the world's greatest structures (Pyramids, Empire State Building, every (old) cathedral and church) ever build were designed and constructed before computers using intuitive tools - paper and pen(cil). Windows, and even OSX is a barrier to true creativity and expression. The unique GUI of the OLPC was a fantastic opportunity to start afresh and empower people who have never touched a computer before. Now all these people will do is send emails and run spreadsheets. How exciting. How original. How inspiring. Not. A sad sad day. I think it's time I got back together with my industrial designer and created an OLPC that meets the original vision of NN at MiT. Watch this space. (www.owonder.com)

    --

    O'WONDERWe're working on it.

  31. Re:Windows is good for education by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I spotted a typo in you post:
    ... designed by the computer illiterate ...
    Windows is designed by lawyers, marketing analysts and people who watch other people using Macs.

    lower entry barriers
    You're joking, right? Microsoft is nothing but barriers to entry. $$$ for this, $$$ for that, $$$ for the other. And then more $$$ to keep it all safe. And then the same again next year.

  32. Re:Instant solution by the+Hewster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Windows NT started on the Alpha processors, later was ported to x86. In recent years it was ported to x64 and Itanium (Itanium share nothing with x86 except the company that made them). Don't invent problems where there aren't.
    The OS might be portable (at great cost) but none of the software that makes Windows a success would be ported (look at your own examples: what software could you get for Alpha and Itanium?) making it pretty useless. On the other hand, most OSS software is ported to pretty much all platforms.
  33. Technically, no by DrYak · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, my Vista boot goes faster than my Ubuntu boot


    Several users of both systems (including my own experience) tends to show that Windows comes up with a desktop earlier than Linux. But once there the disk is still trashing for some time. Whereas on Linux, once you're logger, you're logged and everything is ready to run.
    The whole stuff is build on windows to give you the impression that it is faster.
    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Technically, no by entropyfoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On my fast machine (2 gig ram dual boot), xubuntu boots faster than Win XP.

      The desktop environment makes a big difference.
      -Jay

    2. Re:Technically, no by orasio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I run XP.
      I get a desktop faster that with Ubuntu. The issue, for me, is that after that, one of the first things I want to do, is connect to google talk.
      Usually, the wireless adapter takes a looooooong time to appear in my system tray, and to discover whether I can connect to Google Talk.
      For my usage, XP takes FOREVER to boot.
      I see that you get a desktop faster, but then, I don't want a desktop to see my wallpaper, I want a desktop I can use, to perform the tasks I need.

      I am not saying that Vista is faster, I'm not trying Vista, just pointing out that "getting a desktop" means different things to different people.

  34. Wait a second... by hhcv · · Score: 5, Funny

    I though Bill Gates wanted to stop the spread of viruses in the third world?

  35. Re:Not News by niiler · · Score: 5, Informative
    Wired.com has the update here:

    OLPC spokesman Kyle Austin says the wire services got it wrong. In response to a request from Microsoft, the project gave Redmond some early demo models of the XO to play with -- but that was over a year ago. "Their developers are toying with it," Austin told Wired News editor Kevin Poulsen.

    OLPC hasn't changed the XO's design to support Windows, and has no formal partnership with Microsoft, he says.

    So as often happens, the story is more sensationalist than anything else.
  36. Wow... No OS X? by toQDuj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They might as well have gone with Mac OS X then. I remember Jobs offering to give Mac OS X for free for installation on the OLPC's. At least that'd have been a proper OS.

    I believe that Negroponte refused, with the argument that he wanted a truly open OS. Now they've gone with windows, I think his mind must be slipping..

    B.

    --
    Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
    1. Re:Wow... No OS X? by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Informative

      I believe that Negroponte refused, with the argument that he wanted a truly open OS. Now they've gone with windows, I think his mind must be slipping..

      In the great Slashdot tradition, I didn't read the article, but I got the impression that the OLPC will still be preinstalled with the tailor-made Linux distro. The ability to install Windows or whatever OS doesn't preclude this.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  37. Don't underestimate Microsoft's warchest by DrYak · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why would you even bother?


    Maybe you wouldn't bother. But Microsoft would.
    If they have enough money to laugh at EU's face and keep paying their fine instead of opening their standards, they can afford paying for the whole development, then paying for the rights on the BIOS and the drivers, and then bundle them together with the Windows Starter+Office package for a couple of dollars.

    They can even pay some people in their R&D department to make sure that the whole thing can actually work (won't be too much sluggish, as opposed to boots up and is useless beyond playing around with the GUI. Not BUG-free), and that it'll be an affordable alternative to Sugar.

    If you want a Dell then buy a Dell.


    But people in developing countries can't buy Dells. They would be interested in OLPCs.
    And microsoft can't lose the opportunity to hook them on the MS Crack while those countries are still young.
    Also, *maybe* the OLPC will be sold to occidental countries (maybe at a higher price, to help lowering the cost for developing countries). In which case, it's critical for MS to be sure that occidental kids are exposed to Microsoft products first.

    Given the market share implication, there's a high probability that MS will throw some money at the problem.
    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  38. Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat by Jeremy_Bee · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From here [laptop.org] and here [laptop.org]

    True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
    False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages. This statement makes no sense, (and the whole adoption of Windows argument Negroponte is using), in the context of the fact that Apple offered to give them a version of OS-X for the thing for FREE at the very beginning.

    Apple was turned down on the basis that the laptop was all about the special open sourced based software. Now all of a sudden it's about that, but it's okay if it costs 75% more and runs a cut-rate version of Vista.

    On the surface, it seems like Negroponte was certainly co-opted by Microsoft.
  39. Why demonize companies... by arse+maker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Slashdot contributers are mostly above average people but this same topic keeps cropping up. No company is a single faceted thing, if someone does something it not for a good or bad purpose soley, such a single sided idea from even an individual is hard to come by. If I want pizza tonight, is it soley a hommage to my love of Italy? Because I like take away food? Because its good value food? Because I feel like oily food? Because I saw Nicole Richie and figured if I can still see my penis when I look down maybe im too thin too? You can argue any number of them and they could all be true, even I wouldnt know the one reason why. Just because Microsoft dominates the market with aggressive tactics doesn't mean its not partially a good will thing. You can hardly say bill gates doesn't give back to the community, I don't know any other billionaire that's so altruistic, how much does jobs donate? If its a move to secure Microsoft's position as the most popular OS world wide, then of course that what they should do, that's what any company would do. Isn't the Linux community looking at the OLPC project as a platform to spread Linux? The one upside to Windows is that it will allow them to run software 90-95% of desktop users can run, having Linux on most the developing worlds computers but not on the developed is almost like a barrier they are trying to remove. But in fairness MS should do more to make a cut down version to run, god knows my VM Ware win2k machine boots so fast it makes me wonder what the hell XP and Vista is loading. Dual booted OLPC would be the best middle ground as choice should be something everyone has. Its what I feel the cornerstone of open source software is.

  40. is Linux in the developing world in trouble? by McGiraf · · Score: 2, Funny

    no, developers prefer Linux.

    hum ...

  41. Re:Not News by pallmall1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that increase in memory will also be very useful on the linux side.
    How useful is the corresponding price increase?

    Negroponte has screwed open source by nearly doubling the OLPC price so it can run Windows. He's just back-stabbed all the people who donated a lot of time and effort into putting together a low cost laptop and the free as in speech software to run it.

    The OLPC project is now dead, just like every other venture that capitulates with Microsoft.
    --
    3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
  42. Everyone has their own stance... by purpleraison · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many people WANT to see the underdog(s) (Linux, Macintosh) gain ground and market share from the distribution of a large number of computers, and begin a movement to displace Microsoft. However, if you look at this project from a pragmatic perspective one would need to remove personal desires from the picture.

    The primary goal is to provide acceptable, useful computers to people. If Microsoft is willing to donate their operating system for free, then this should be factored in. However, the additional requirements necessary to run Windows XP would change the computer considerably.

    For those who don't know it, Linux comes in many flavors and has far lower requirements than Windows. The people involved in this project know this too.

    This does not mean that an actual effort to find out the difference in requirements on **THIS** computer to run Windows should have anyone getting concerned. They are just answering the question:

    "With this computer as it is now, exactly what changes (and how much more money) would be required to make it run Windows?"

    This is a reasonable question, and one that any smart project manager would want to know the answer to. This is not your run of the mill 'minimum requirements', but rather a realistic and accurate minimum requirements for this computer.

    Trust me, someone is going to ask the question. Maybe a government, maybe some ignorant government IT person somewhere, or a politically motivated official. But someone WILL ask the question, and if they don't know the answer, they would need to go back and either fudge it or find it out.

    So knowing the answer before someone asks the question shown good planning, and project management.

    --
    I am open source, and Linux baby!
  43. OLPC just lost my good will by pembo13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    whatever it was worth... I am from a "3rd world country" a, but a price RAM to increase specs... for Windows?? the fact that this is at least a rumor is a bad side for what was once a purely open initiative - I guess I still wish them luck, but I won't be cheering for them anymore.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  44. old news, not a big deal by capseed · · Score: 2, Informative

    The first time I heard about this was after Bill Gates (and the intel ceo) blasted the OLPC project. After a quick google, here is an article from a year ago about the subject:
    http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS2619367620 .html

    Negroponte's publicly challenged the criticisms, reminding Gates and Intel that this is NOT a consumer machine. "We're going to help them make a Win CE version, so geez, why criticize me?"

    Second, in response to complaints about the price, they have said for a long time that the $100 price point is the eventual goal, not the initial cost. From http://www.olpcnews.com/prototypes/olpc/olpc_xo_10 0_dollar_laptop.html

    "The project's operators say the price should fall to $100 apiece next year, when they hope to produce 50 million of the so-called "XO" machines, before dipping below $100 by 2010 when they aim to reach 150 million of the world's poorest children.

    "We're pledging to always drive the price down," Walter Bender, the group's president of software and content, told Reuters. "Rather than continuing to add features to keep the price inflated, we're keeping the feature set stable and driving the price down.""

  45. Re:Not News by Dhalka226 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow. Imagine my surprise to find slashdotters who think the most important part of making a semi-affordable laptop for poor children living in third world countries is that it promotes open source.

    I don't really buy the "wow, 128 extra megs of RAM and 512MB more hard disk space--THEY'RE SLEEPING WITH MICROSOFT!" nonsense. I could buy the parts for that RETAIL and not pay an extra $75, with the exception that probably nobody bothers to sell that kind of super-low-end hardware anymore.

    More likely, they had a goal of $100 laptop and have realized that manufacturing isn't cheap. Costs run up all the time in projects of any scope. They've said all along that they expect the price to come down each year; that's an effect of manufacturing, not a magical "Microsoft tax" that apparently would only apply for one year.

  46. Re:Vista ready? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I always wondered what he was doing pushing that thing round and round at the start of Conan...

  47. Windows Mobile by StarKruzr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The ironic thing about WM is that if you have a keyboard and a fairly large screen (i.e., a COMPUTER), it's great. It is really not optimized for use on a device like a cell phone or PDA, though, as its control widgets are just too tiny.

    That's really just a UI criticism, though. The kernel itself is great.

    --

    +++ATH0
  48. Re:Not News by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Negroponte has screwed open source by nearly doubling the OLPC price so it can run Windows. He's just back-stabbed all the people who donated a lot of time and effort into putting together a low cost laptop and the free as in speech software to run it.

    OLPC is low-cost only if it can be produced and sold in the tens of millions of units. If open source can't deliver those millions today - when they are needed most - the problem isn't with Negroponte and the problem isn't with Windows.

    There is nothing in OLPC tech that can't be replicated by others. There is nothing to stop the deployment of the $100 third-world Windows laptop. Not with academic pricing of XP or Vista SE and Office down to $3 per unit.

  49. Re:AND Slashdot's Criticism... by mackyrae · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've used one. It is a real computer,though the keyboard's not clicky (it's actually very squishy and very rubber, not even hard keycaps, but it's also probably waterproof which is good) and is extremely tiny (perfect for child fingers). I was a bit confused by the UI, but then I grew up on Windows and then switched go GNOME. It's an entirely different way of thinking about UI and how you interact with it. There are 3 touchpads. One controls the mouse, though I forget what the other two do. I do agree that they need food and water, but I think this is aimed more at areas where there are a lot of not-too-poor-for-school (you can be too poor for free school if the opportunity cost of school is a bunch of money you need to make at a job to feed your family) but still not rich enough to have a computer at home families. There are a lot of families here in the US which don't have computers. They have to use the ones at libraries. That can be a problem with research papers depending on the library. The one at home closes at 6 on Fridays and stays closed on weekends (may have added 10-2 on Saturdays). My school has a 24hr library, which gets used quite a bit. If your area doesn't have a 24hr library though, you have a very limited amount of time during which you can do research considering that you're in school more than half of the hours during which the library is open. For people who have a trailer-park-quality life, the OLPC would be perfect.

    --
    look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
  50. $175 is TOO much for anything in 3rd world by unity100 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Typing in from a country that is stuck amidst 1st world and 3rd world neighbors, and cant decide which category itself falls into, im saying that $175 price tag for OLPC means labeling it as "DEAD" with colorfully lettered stickers.

    even in turkey $175 for such a device is way too much that any family wanting to buy one might ask the supplier whether they will let them pay in installments spreading over 12 or better, 24 months.

    Needless to say that in countries that fall in southern and southeastern directions from turkey, which encompass most of the 3rd world countries, $175 will just make olpc a no gamer.

    evidently someone sold their soul to some bastards. sad to see, as this olpc thing actually had a chance.

    this $175 deal thing is apparently something to enable microsoft to push windows crap on them to third (and second) world so that they will create a userbase and a future upgrade market. if this shit goes through like this,i got to say that, as an it world participant and employee, i will consult anyone and any institution in my area against olpc and ensure i have a hand in its failure. despite i want it to happen very much, better not to happen, than to happen foul.

    maybe everything is not over yet. If olpc contributors reassess the situation and pressurize the leaders, sold souls might be reclaimed, if it is not too late.

  51. Re:Why 256Mb? - falling for Microsofts tricks by Locutus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Windows supported now that they've increased processor power, and doubled RAM and Flash? WTF, they are falling for Microsofts tricks. This raises the price and delays the product launch so that Micrsoft has time to get its marketing team out there and either buy out prospective customers of OLPC or sells them on how a WindowsPC is better for their future with some kind of 'training' or kickback deal.

    Sorry but this device does not need to run Windows and I'd already heard previously that the OLPC project had already increased the system cost once to enable 'Windows support' and now they've gone way overboard in both adding more onto the price AND delaying initial shipments.

    Microsoft is NOT a partner unless you like being a partner of a Black Widow. IMO.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  52. Re:Not News by Locutus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it was already publicly stated that the SD slot was added at Microsofts request. And "no formal partnership" does not mean that they haven't started falling for Microsofts tricks. It appears their scheme of bloating the OLPC project into extinction is well on its way. Get a clue folks, Microsoft wants OLPC gone if it's not running Windows. Period. IMO

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  53. Re:What was said, what you know, where it goes. by Locutus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a couple of decades of evidence as to how Microsoft "works" and this person seems to be aware of this. He/she knows that what is said publicly by Microsoft or associates is NOT related to reality since it is ALL PR and marketing-speak. BTW, the OLPC people have already said that they have increased the cost of the OLPC device by adding the SD lot AT MICROSOFTS REQUEST. Therefore, there is already evidence that they are adapting the system for Microsoft without an official partnership with them. The latest moves stating that they've increased the CPU performance, doubled both system memory and storage ALONG WITH stating support for Microsoft Windows makes it easy to put together the picture of what is going on and to fear the end of the OLPC project.

    BTW, I agree 100% with the comments stated. Microsoft must see OLPC fail if it is not running Microsoft Windows. Microsoft is not out to save the world or educate the world and their only purpose on this earth is to sell Microsoft software. Negroponte and group are fools if they think Microsoft has ANY OTHER MOTIVE. Like I said, there are a couple of decades of evidence which shows how Microsoft 'works'.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  54. Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat by evilviper · · Score: 2, Informative

    A decent Linux system doesn't need 256MB,

    Yes it does. The OLPC doesn't have a hard drive, and so, no swap partition to offload less recently used data, when you're getting low on RAM. Get a few apps running at once, especially with a memory-heavy, interpreted language like Python, and your 128MB of RAM will be full in no time, and applications will start crashing.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  55. Re:Not News by shish · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "wow, 128 extra megs of RAM and 512MB more hard disk space--THEY'RE SLEEPING WITH MICROSOFT!" nonsense

    Links to microsoft aren't being drawn simply because they've upped the hardware, but because they've upped the hardware from "enough to give the kids a functional laptop" to "enough to run windows"

    --
    I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
  56. What does RedHat think about this? by feranick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd like to see what RedHat thinks about this. They invest so much in the new interface, and overall OS, with the hope to create something new, and more appropriate for kids, with very innovative features nowhere to be found in conventional PCs (mesh networking, real collaborative activities). Now the OLPC leadership is basically saying: "Sugar is nice, but let's put the old Windows as an alternative, regardless its feasibility in the use in a school environment, after all nobody was ever fired when buying MS products". To me that seems a slap in the faces to RedHat, and ultimately to the kids. This was supposed to be an educational project. As time goes by, it looks more as a business effort to sell dumb computers in developing countries. Nobody talks about content, how to use these things in schools.

    1. Re:What does RedHat think about this? by Pecisk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      http://www.j5live.com/?p=363

      It is not official RedHat statement, but hey, I feel about it the same way.

      XO is open computer as much as you can get these days - everything is open, even spec for firmware of webcam. So why in any way forbird Microsoft to create OS for it?

      Default will stay RedHat + Sugar anyway, and Windows in no way will have tickless kernel, etc. features what is needed to run this box properly, up to specs.

      --
      user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
  57. Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat by Lost+Race · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe I'm dense, but I can't see the connection between the quotes and your response. Negroponte insists that the platform is open, and that all software included will be open. This means third-party developers cannot be prohibited from developing non-open software for it -- Microsoft (and Apple) are apparently doing so. The fact that the project turned down Apple has nothing to do with expense but with licensing, which is exactly the same reason they would turn down a similar offer from Microsoft. Nothing in the OLPC project so far contradicts this policy. Where is the co-opting? Where is the evidence that the 75% cost increase has anything to do with Windows? $100 was always considered a very optimistic price target; $175 is still pretty damn cheap, and possibly still unrealistic.

  58. Re:Not News by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 2

    And so they increased the specs to make it more expensive? The most important thing about this was that it was cheap and reliable. Moving to Windows is a step back on both fronts.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  59. I bet some feel violated by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I expect there are many people who have contributed in some way to OLPC because they see this as an OSS project with a good cause.

    Now that it is also going to be a vector for the Windows cancer will surely leave many people feeling violated. I know I do, and my contribution was tiny compatred with others.

    I really believe that OLPC could be way better if it did not have to support Windows. For example, using an ARM instead of an x86 would have reduced cost and power consuumption.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.