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OLPC to Run Windows, Come to the US
An anonymous reader writes "'Yesterday Nicholas Negroponte, former director of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Lab and current head of the nonprofit One Laptop Per Child project, gave analysts and journalists an update on the OLPC project. Two big changes were announced — the $100 OLPC is now the $175 OLPC, and it will be able to run Windows. Even in a market where there are alternatives to using Windows and Office, there's a huge demand for Microsoft software. The OLPC was seen as a way for open source Linux distributions to achieve massive exposure in developing countries, but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux. Details are sketchy but Negroponte did confirm that the XO's developers have been working with Microsoft to get the OLPC up to spec for Windows.' We also find out that the OLPC gets a price hike and will officially come to the US. Could this be tied into Microsoft's new $3 Windows XP Starter and Office 2007 bundle? Now that the OLPC and Intel's Classmate PC can both run Windows, is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"
I guess Bill Gates is going to stop criticizing the project now that it supports Windows...
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Now the system has 256MB of Ram and a slightly better processor, so yes it could now run Windows in theory. However as they always say, this is an educational project not a laptop project, and they are of course going to go with the stunning Sugar interface.
The dollar has fallen in value quite a lot, next month we'll no doubt see $250 OLPC if it keeps slipping.
My little Linux and tech blog
Anyone know if it will be "Vista Ready"? :)
You know what's next ... the XO's in the real field [e.g. 3rd world nations] will start shipping with Windows instead of their OSS tools.
Yeah, MSFT won again!
I wonder how much it cost MSFT to buy them off....
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
I get the feeling sometimes that the heads at M$ have a robber baron complex. They stole ideas and software so much that they feel bad and try to give back somehow as well as force their crap on unsuspecting indiginous peoples. I just don't think that this is necessarily a good venue for them. First I think that it'll actually degrade the performance of the machine and what happens when all these machines get out in the world and they mesh network a virus? (if this doesn't make much sense please break out a decoder ring, I'm 11 1/2 hours into my shift at 5:30 in the morning) It seems to me that it would create a lot more problems than it's worth, not to mention that for kids in the developing world the XO interface looks like it's more language/culture neutral than a windows style interface. Oh and last I checked every dollar counts in this thing, most developing countries don't have a ton of money to throw at these so the cheaper the better, so an extra few dollars per machine may not seem like a lot to us but for where they're going and the numbers that are estimated it adds up pretty quickly.
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
I know I just posted a second ago but I also had a thought. Is M$ maybe trying to get all these people using and programming with Windows so that they can set up Developer sweatshops similar to clothing lines? I do remember some exec saying at one time something about developers developers developers........ *stares stupidly at chair flying towards head*
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
just because it *can* run Windows? As in, just the possibility upsets you? Folks, get some perspective will ya'?
> but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux.
Not surprising that Negroponte changed his mind. Waking up and finding that chair in his bed must have really rattled him.
Now that the OLPC and Intel's Classmate PC can both run Windows, is Linux in the developing world in trouble?
In trouble of what. It had very low desktop market share and will continue to have low market share. Not exactly a "trouble", not a victory either.
If "Vista Capable" level of compatibility is what we should expect from an OLPC running XP starter edition, I think Linux will prevail.
While I'm a strong supporter of Windows versus Linux as a desktop client (as Linux simply has too many logistical and usability problems YET), for the purpose of the OLPC, and given that it'll come pre-configured and pre-bundled with the necessary apps, Linux is quite up to the task.
If MS can charge $3 for their software, but in other venues charge more then 300 for nearly the same, can that be considered as anti-competitive dumping?
Let's just hope that the next US government will break up Bills empire and throw the upper management in jail.
If the price rises $75, that can be considered a $75 windos tax, that is 42%!
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
Good for OLPC and for Linux acceptance.
Consider: until now we have been running Linux on computers that were designed for Windows. With OLPC it will be the other way around: people will be able to run Windows on a computer designed for Linux! And this project will be partially funded by Microsoft. It is a huge publicity for Linux on Microsoft's expense.
What is the point of the $3 windows starter edition.
I thought an important point of shipping linux appart from cost was that it comes ready to do "stuff".
Does XP starter come with freecell?
Make OLPC's CPU non-x86. Windows is portable like... Like... Like... It's not.
Windows NT started on the Alpha processors, later was ported to x86. In recent years it was ported to x64 and Itanium (Itanium share nothing with x86 except the company that made them).
Don't invent problems where there aren't.
This is not news, despite the Slashdot headline and the ZDNet blog saying otherwise. Quite a while back we already heard from Negroponte that they had given some OLPC hardware to Microsoft, and that Microsoft was working on getting Windows to work on it. So this is not news in the simplest possible sense. Did anyone doubt that Microsoft would succeed in getting Windows to work on an OLPC? Of course not.
The question is not whether the OLPC can run Windows. The question is what OS will actually be used, which depends on the nations buying OLPCs. Last I heard it was too soon to tell about such details.
Unless they can offer those 256Mb of RAM at a lower price than a smaller memory, it's a waste of resources. Better make an effort to lower that price than try to make it run windows. What next, the $999 OLPC to run a $300 Vista Starter Edition?
Linux can run on Atmel AVR32 processors. I really doubt Windows has been ported there :-)
They're also ridiculously low powered processors. Albeit not the fastest things ever, probably give the Geode a run for it's money though.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
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If a picture is worth a thousand words my dissertation is going to be a dodle
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Of course. They say it'll run windoze, and the price doulbes. Gee, wonder where that $75 is going. I'm betting anything that isn't going straight to M$ is going to getting better hardware so that the bloated spyware called Vista will actually run on it.
Of course the laptop can't run Vista. That's a hilarious suggestion. It would never work.
t .mspx
Microsoft aren't going to ship an ancient unsupported distribution (98, 2000), which leaves only versions of XP. XP was first sold in 2001, and Microsoft intend it to be usurped by this years Vista. Production of XP is due to be phased out in 2008 (that's next year folks), and retail and OEM licenses won't be available from January 31, 2008 (that's nine months away) according to their following page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/defaul
They can't stick to that date. Dell customers have shown the demand for XP remains; Dell's profits dropped the months it wasn't available. So it's no surprise Microsoft choose to bundle XP for $3 over Vista. The truth is Vista, their more expensive, more recent product that they really want to push is less desirable to most users, and this a consequence of Microsoft's own policies. Microsoft succeeded in creating the ultimate lock-in system with XP, and this has now hit them hard. Most XP users see the system as perfectly functional, they've become incredibly accustomed to even the dysfunctional parts and many of them don't remember or never experienced previous upgrades (they've had XP for six years). It's true that upgrading will only introduce hardware problems, the trouble of data migration, loss of settings, and fewer compatible applications.
If they do phase out XP, I'm going to stockpile discs to sell with filament lightbulbs the months after the stores dry up.
Even worse, windows is almost designed to preserve user's computer illiteracy - you don't learn how to use a computer, you rote-learn how to do some tasks using a computer running windows. The OLPC linux OS was designed to encourage exploration of what was underneath, all deliberately written in a simple programming language. The *reason* we have programmers today is because the early 8- and 16- bit platforms they grew up on encouraged exploration. My first computers came with complete schematics and a programming manual.
>[e.g. 3rd world nations] will start shipping with Windows instead of their OSS tools.
Well since the laptop is built with a custom OpenFirmware and a LinuxBios (kernel on the firmware), how are they going to boot Windows exactly?
My little Linux and tech blog
Yes. approximately $75.
Embrace, Extend, Exterminate
True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.
mod parent up tag: itstrapped
Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
I think this might make sense where kids have already had exposure to PCs (running Windows no doubt) say at school, but they and their families can't afford to buy their own PCs. The Sugar GUI can be pretty baffling to those used to a more contemporary UI - at least it was to me looking at some of the reviews on the web.
I agree with earlier posters about the potential for viruses roaming free across the mesh network though. A network that's always on even when the computer is off sounds pretty scary from a security point of view.> is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"
Twelve hundred children an hour die, largely in said world, and mostly preventable deaths. (Source: UNICEF). That's things like malnutrition, lack of access to clean water, etc...
No offense meant, but can you imagine how much we shouldn't care what kind of operating system these countries are using? There are bigger problems to worry about.
Now they have to remember to run those anti-spyware and AV softwares everyday! :(
"there's a huge demand for Microsoft software"
Since when has this project been driven by market needs? I thought it was meant to empower children by giving them the power of a notebook, not the power of Windows.
So now they have to up the spec to meet Windows, which will need to up the price as component costs rise. Just so they can run Windows. To change the hardware spec. at this stage in the project would only happen for strong reasons related to the overall success of the project.
It doesn't make sense, and there must be something else going on behind the scenes.
First of all, it would be short sited not to include Microsoft in this kind of project. Remember that Microsoft still has some social responsibility and since it's a world player it would make sense to "sponsor" a project like this. However, they should not be asking any money off it. In fact, they may even be able to use it as a tax write off - if that is possible in the US(?).
Further more, there is just so much more educational software available on Microsoft - especially older versions of MS DOS, Windows 3x, Windows 9x. Yes, I know they are no longer supported, but I am sure Microsoft could make an effort in supporting these older games - or even bring back some kind of limited support for their older OS's.
This does not however mean that Linux has lost - it merely defines what we as a community can do to guarantee Linux a spot in this market: develop quality educational software, or, let the likes of the Wine Project focus on compatibility for these older "games". That would mean that potentially Microsoft does not have to support older versions of Windows any more (since the Wine community can now do that), and it could even mean that a company like Novell or RedHat could also now start to act on their social responsibilities by supporting the Wine Project.
In the end, I support the philosophy behind the project, and personally I will take any OS and Software available to help some of the poorest children on Earth.
Just a quick last word from my side: I have a flash light with one of them handles to wind up to load the batteries. I can not see this concept fly on this Project, but if it does we will have some well developed poor people able to knock down walls with their fists :)
Need an ISP in South Africa?
So it now costs $ 175 because it has to support Windows ?
I am using the olpc xo. (that is the name of the computer). The hardware is truly revolutionary. It is NOT just a small laptop, it is more rugged than a toughbook and as cute as an aibo. I have seen its effect on children. They immediately love it and treat it like a pet. (anthropomorphism?)
It is also a full on computer with a fantastic screen.
I am glad to see the opening of the hardware to other operating systems. The hardware needs to be commercially available so us geek developers can extend the software in thousands of ways. These extensions will greatly benefit the children of the developing world, and continue to bridge the divide as we all work together to build this educational tool.
It's a $75 + $3 Windows.
People seem to be wondering about Vista/XP/98. What about CE? It should run just fine on the OLPC.
Thank you Microsoft.
Due to your intervention, the same village will now receive 40% less laptops for the same budget, and experience viruses, BSOD's and Windows bit-rot.
They will become educated in the three R's (Reboot, Reinstall, Reformat and these devices don't come with CD drives).
Of course, you are going to ensure that the 'productivity' software is fully 'compatible' with the Linux software, aren't you.
But at least you won't get any competition from any emerging 3rd world IT industries, eh? Because developing on these platforms will be *so* cheap and easy. Who knows, you may force them to become amoral and pirate all your software in order to get anything done, instead of sharing GPL'd code and helping each other totally legally and morally.
And of course you are well known for writing secure, resource efficient software that doesn't have memory leaks, and Linux is not.
(For instance, my house firewall is definitely not a Pentium 75 with 64Mb of memory with an uptime of years).
After all, you have to use the right tool for the job, and they exist for you, not vice versa. Their needs are your needs.
Don't worry, if you're feeling guilty just get the Gates Foundation charity to cut their country a check. All better!
By the way, aren't you canning XP soon? I hope they have their upgrade path sorted.
I'd like to congratulate this project for becoming a total failure.
I live in a third world country, let me say this: 175 $us is too expensive, that 75% more actually means a reduction in possible buyers by 90% (Although this statistic is totally made up, I am pretty sure this is the case, let's say 85%~95%), as a matter of fact, here it is possible to get a 'real' computer (Pentium I, which is enough for a child's computer, did you know?) for 150$us.
And all of this so it can run windows...
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
The decision to raise the price from $100 to $175 is a mistake in PR.
They should have never made the price public if they were not sure about it,
and just release it as the $200 OLPC when they were.
By making it run proprietary operating systems, the project also fails to
deliver the freedom it initially seemed to care about.
Are you really trying to defend Windows portability by saying a defunct OS was once ported to a dead chip?
If MS came out and said there's now a way to run Windows on the cheapest lowest powered laptop you can find. Sorry about that massive investment you wasted.
The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerated
I think you missed the bigger implication here...
None of us care if Billy G sells a crippled, OLPC-specific version of XP dirt-cheap, in a desperate bid to promote Windows adoption in the 3rd world. Exposing people to "Starter Edition" would most likely do more to promote Linux use than compete with it.
Given the price and specs change, and Microsoft's announcement of "embracing" the OLPC, some of us can't help but but 2 and 2 together and get 4. A decent Linux system doesn't need 256MB, while XP can barely run its own Explorer interface, much less any additional programs (and I wouldn't even want to try any of the Office apps such as Word) on anything less.
As the biggest issue here, you need to look at this from two perspectives - Ours, as (most likely) middle-class geeks posting from a Western nation viewing this as a really cool (and still exceedingly cheap) compromise between a palmheld and a laptop and cheap enough to consider nearly disposeable; And a third-world school looking at a total budget of $150 per year, trying to decide if they should buy an OLPC or rebuild the school that washed away in the annual spring mudslide.
Cheap toys vs still-expensive tools.
And lest you take that as baseless speculation, "However, Negroponte disclosed that XO's developers have been working with Microsoft Corp. so a version of Windows can run on the machines as well". No, not a "side effect". Boost the specs and boost the price just so Microsoft can play along.
I wonder how much Nick Negroponte's soul cost Mr. Gates...
It always has been, pirating what the rest of the world uses is cheaper then trying something 'different'.
Not saying its the better choice, but its the 'cheaper' one in the long run if you want to compete.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
OLPC is not done until Windows won't run.
1011 1010 1101 1100 0000 1111 1111 1110 1110
The right thing to do would be shipping 100$ per laptop, with open source software package and a Linux distro.
The really right thing to do would be shipping this laptop with software that is being used by 95% of the worlds users , effectively giving people the skills needed to operate the tools that are used by the majority of people in the developed world. (no this isn't flaimbait)
My Starcraft 2 Blog
the price is too high, might as well go hunt for a second-hand laptop now...
regular books (made of paper) is more plausible anyway, they don't need electricity and they don't BSOD...
the original idea of a low cost laptop thingy for third-world children was a good idea, but this has turned in to a commercialized mess, whats next the price going up to 599USD? product activation? these people royally screwed this up maybe beyond repair, the KISS philosophy is needed here more than ever...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Now, now, now.... I like to bash Microsoft as much as the next slashdot guy. However, it is possible to run Windows XP Pro on a machine with 256Meg RAM. On idle, a correclty configured XP uses about 100Meg, less depending on the active services. You can even run iTunes, Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice2.org on it. Now, true, the difference by adding another 256Meg is big, but it is possible. My mother in law ran a P-III 500MHz/256Meg RAM for quite some time until I found a slightly better CPU and another PC100 256Meg stick in a dumpster. It now is a really good machine for normal productivity applications. My last laptop was a P-III 600MHz/512Meg RAM and it was sufficient for my needs. I only replaced it because it fell physically apart.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Windows runs on ARM processors as well, which are distinctly not x86.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
The Xbox 360's OS is based on NT 5, running on PPC.
The brilliance of the OLPC project is the almost crash proof simplicity of the product. A fresh start. For anyone who has used a (now defunct) Psion Organiser, one of the easiest to use and reliable (albiet unconnected) PDAs ever launched anywhere in the world, a user friendly stable GUI is what empowers people to focus on the task at hand, not the device. Think Toaster, Microwave or iPod. As a Mac user who has just spent two weeks playing with Vista, I wish to state as a software designer that MS products are a hindrance, not a tool for productivity. The majority of the world's greatest structures (Pyramids, Empire State Building, every (old) cathedral and church) ever build were designed and constructed before computers using intuitive tools - paper and pen(cil). Windows, and even OSX is a barrier to true creativity and expression. The unique GUI of the OLPC was a fantastic opportunity to start afresh and empower people who have never touched a computer before. Now all these people will do is send emails and run spreadsheets. How exciting. How original. How inspiring. Not. A sad sad day. I think it's time I got back together with my industrial designer and created an OLPC that meets the original vision of NN at MiT. Watch this space. (www.owonder.com)
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
The "designed for the computer illiterate" statement is absolutely true, regardless of how it stacks up against other OSes. During Windows 95 development, the core team's mantra was to think about every feature and how "Brad Silverberg's Mom" would be able to use it. Brad Silverberg was the executive product manager for Win3.1 and Win95, and whether it was accurate or not, the group's mental image of his mom was that she was a complete novice who might barely be able to understand the relationship between an icon and a document.
Now it's possible that Brad's Mom was just TOO dumb for Win95, or would have been just as happy with an Apple, or toughed it out until she understood what a command prompt was, or hired her son to help her out with the recipe database, but you can't say that Windows isn't designed for the computer illiterate.
[
I don't like MS one bit, but I do believe that the MS bashing here is uncalled for in this case. I'd love to see Linux grow (marketshare matters), and with a choice countries may opt for Windows even though the surfing etc. could as well be done under Linux. This doesn't help weaning the world off Windows. These countries will pay later for their decision, when the Windows-skilled people that come out of it will require PCs with paid-for Windows.
If OLPC got in the hands of developers, edu OS edu software could be developed that would mitigate the attraction of OLPC running Windows.
Bert
Macintosh user
I spotted a typo in you post:
... designed by the computer illiterate ...
Windows is designed by lawyers, marketing analysts and people who watch other people using Macs.
lower entry barriers
You're joking, right? Microsoft is nothing but barriers to entry. $$$ for this, $$$ for that, $$$ for the other. And then more $$$ to keep it all safe. And then the same again next year.
News like this make me appreciate the integrity of people such as RMS. Both Stallman and Negroponte have a vision of a world made better by using computers for social gains instead of individual gains. However, while Stallman has remained firmly commited to work towards his goals with no compromises, Negroponte drifted away from his as soon as some pressure from the status quo was applied. The OLPC is supposed to be totally hackable, so that children learn the underlying workings of computer. How can this task be accomplished with a close-source Windows? I doubt very much that OLPCs shipped with Windows will include the source code. So, instead of a platform to encourage children to experiment, the OLPC will become the new tool to train future Windows users. Dr. Negroponte, please, if you are reading this, do not forget your laudable goals and resist the temptation to compromise.
The dollar has slipped about 15%. It would make sense to denominate this in Euros.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Historically sure, Windows entire position is built on the fact that they made a interface usable by almost anyone.
My question is more, is it really any better designed for the computer illiterate now, compared to the other OS's? I find it hard to use a Mac myself, but that's more to do with me being very used to windows then any problem with the Mac. New users wouldn't have that problem so might find it easier. Just because Windows started off designing for the computer illiterate doesn't mean they still do, or that another OS doesn't do it better.
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Contronyms: for people who sanction opposites
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Let's see developing countries make their mark in in the technology sector with their new-found engineered reliance on an American monopolistic coroporation.
Let's see them try to think outside of the Microsoft box and extend the tools that are given to them.
Let's see them try to turn all the poor paradigms that a Windows desktop impresses on young minds and transform it into something that's meaningful for the way they might experience the world.
Let's see them create new, local and autonomous markets with Microsoft products.
Let's see them run MSVC on those machines, let alone satisfy their inquisitive minds as to how the operating system actually works.
Microsoft creates a sickness and presents itself as the only cure. By putting Windows junk on the OLPC you're only helping to create a new outsourcing market for fat western corporations at the expense of their own local labour markets. Wait for the the I.T sweatshops to come marching to a job-board near you.
Nice one Nick. What a failure you're allowing this project to become. Microsoft will eiether engulf it and capitalise on it or destroy it entirely. Here we were thinking you were a leader.
Then the CPU clearly took up the slack (or it had a fast harddisk). I tried installing Windows XP Pro on a P-II 333MHz (or so, something in the 300MHz range) and it only had 128Meg RAM. That was painfully slow, but I only did that to check if all hardware worked. After that I put Linux on it.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Several users of both systems (including my own experience) tends to show that Windows comes up with a desktop earlier than Linux. But once there the disk is still trashing for some time. Whereas on Linux, once you're logger, you're logged and everything is ready to run.
The whole stuff is build on windows to give you the impression that it is faster.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I though Bill Gates wanted to stop the spread of viruses in the third world?
The price increase from 100 to 175 was to: 1) Pay for the Windows and Office licenses 2) Pay for the changes to the hardware to allow Windows and Office to run on the systems!
Poor form OLPC. Poor form.
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
I've followed the development of the $100 laptop (first name) loosely from day one. I thought about the goals and effects this might have and thought they had a point. That the price would be higher beforehand and get lower over time as more machines get produced was clear. But it went from 100 to 110, 140, ..., 175.
I toyed with the sugar interface and didn't like it. It was nowhere what I'm used to. But then I realised that the kids down there aren't used to anything and maybe this "all new" was not only a chance for them to get into computing a little better but also for the whole world to think over the current GUIs.
But now they just added a few dollars to the machines price to raise the hardware (which I thought was overpowered already before, but a 400MHz Geode costs AMD the same as a 300MHz one) AND the kids shall get the windows UI? That's very bad in two ways!
If they really go through with this (haven't found much on the laptop.org page about this subject) then they really lost it and I think that this will break their neck...
Predictions for the future: just a little higher prices still (220 or so) in order to properly run windows and maybe linux - but that won't matter because none of the targetted states will be able to buy enough of them - so they have to choose who gets the few they have. That will be the ones who already have a little knowledge (equals a little money) and the poorest will be left out. A selection process again and absolutely against the initial idea...
They might as well have gone with Mac OS X then. I remember Jobs offering to give Mac OS X for free for installation on the OLPC's. At least that'd have been a proper OS.
I believe that Negroponte refused, with the argument that he wanted a truly open OS. Now they've gone with windows, I think his mind must be slipping..
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
Maybe you wouldn't bother. But Microsoft would.
If they have enough money to laugh at EU's face and keep paying their fine instead of opening their standards, they can afford paying for the whole development, then paying for the rights on the BIOS and the drivers, and then bundle them together with the Windows Starter+Office package for a couple of dollars.
They can even pay some people in their R&D department to make sure that the whole thing can actually work (won't be too much sluggish, as opposed to boots up and is useless beyond playing around with the GUI. Not BUG-free), and that it'll be an affordable alternative to Sugar.
But people in developing countries can't buy Dells. They would be interested in OLPCs.
And microsoft can't lose the opportunity to hook them on the MS Crack while those countries are still young.
Also, *maybe* the OLPC will be sold to occidental countries (maybe at a higher price, to help lowering the cost for developing countries). In which case, it's critical for MS to be sure that occidental kids are exposed to Microsoft products first.
Given the market share implication, there's a high probability that MS will throw some money at the problem.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
And the Gates Foundation will chip in $75?
Isn't that how these things always work?
True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages. This statement makes no sense, (and the whole adoption of Windows argument Negroponte is using), in the context of the fact that Apple offered to give them a version of OS-X for the thing for FREE at the very beginning.
Apple was turned down on the basis that the laptop was all about the special open sourced based software. Now all of a sudden it's about that, but it's okay if it costs 75% more and runs a cut-rate version of Vista.
On the surface, it seems like Negroponte was certainly co-opted by Microsoft.
IE: Not ALL regions in the developing world correspond to the general idea occidentals have of them.
YES, there are tragic situations happening all-over the world. But it isn't the situation everywhere.
There *ARE* region that have food, water, and [albeit unreliable] electricty and communications.
Once you have that, what would you do next ?
You NEED to provide them education. And the OLPC is just that : a power full tool for education. It was envisioned by its creator as a tool to help teaching to children.
You WON'T answer to those region : "Sorry you're left on your own. We prefer to concentrate only on children dying from malnutrition", and leave the situation deteriorating until again there's famine there.
It's all about the "Give a man a fish..." saying.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Slashdot contributers are mostly above average people but this same topic keeps cropping up. No company is a single faceted thing, if someone does something it not for a good or bad purpose soley, such a single sided idea from even an individual is hard to come by. If I want pizza tonight, is it soley a hommage to my love of Italy? Because I like take away food? Because its good value food? Because I feel like oily food? Because I saw Nicole Richie and figured if I can still see my penis when I look down maybe im too thin too? You can argue any number of them and they could all be true, even I wouldnt know the one reason why. Just because Microsoft dominates the market with aggressive tactics doesn't mean its not partially a good will thing. You can hardly say bill gates doesn't give back to the community, I don't know any other billionaire that's so altruistic, how much does jobs donate? If its a move to secure Microsoft's position as the most popular OS world wide, then of course that what they should do, that's what any company would do. Isn't the Linux community looking at the OLPC project as a platform to spread Linux? The one upside to Windows is that it will allow them to run software 90-95% of desktop users can run, having Linux on most the developing worlds computers but not on the developed is almost like a barrier they are trying to remove. But in fairness MS should do more to make a cut down version to run, god knows my VM Ware win2k machine boots so fast it makes me wonder what the hell XP and Vista is loading. Dual booted OLPC would be the best middle ground as choice should be something everyone has. Its what I feel the cornerstone of open source software is.
no, developers prefer Linux.
...
hum
It's not even a new tactic. Afraid of competition? Sell for less than cost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidumping
IMHO, Microsoft should also assume all costs of enforcing piracy or else be guilty of the same practice. The world would be using, developing and expanding OSS if it weren't for the fact that they all have pirated copies of Windows and Office on their PCs.
I think Negroponte is just making this move to coax a better deal out of Linux Corp. -- the same way govt. agencies threaten to use Linux in order to get MS to offer them cheaper windows.
I suspect if Linux lowers its price from $0 to -$50, you'll hear no more about OLPC running Windows.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Bill's up to his usual tricks.
Wikileaks, no DNS
The bot problem is easily solved by buying the latest and greatest version of windows, plus the new hardware that is required to run it. And possibly a subscription to Genuine(R) MS NoMoreBot(TM). Near as I can tell, the bot problem drives sales.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Even on a big machine, Linux doesn't have to fear comparison with Windows. On a machine like this, it will become evident quickly to users what a pig Windows really is.
However, in addition to the Linux version for kids, if people put a copy of Windows-for-grownups on there, they should probably also put a copy of Linux-for-grownups on there. In fact, I think Ubuntu for OLPC would be a great additional choice.
With this change we can be fairly certain that lots of money has changed hands above and below the table.
The original idea was to give more people with less resources access to computers.
The idea that those disadvantaged people need and demand access to Microsoft Office isn't even ludicrous.
What a way to sell out the kids for a money hungry company. Quite the modest proposal if you ask me.
Money is the root of all evil?
Many people WANT to see the underdog(s) (Linux, Macintosh) gain ground and market share from the distribution of a large number of computers, and begin a movement to displace Microsoft. However, if you look at this project from a pragmatic perspective one would need to remove personal desires from the picture.
The primary goal is to provide acceptable, useful computers to people. If Microsoft is willing to donate their operating system for free, then this should be factored in. However, the additional requirements necessary to run Windows XP would change the computer considerably.
For those who don't know it, Linux comes in many flavors and has far lower requirements than Windows. The people involved in this project know this too.
This does not mean that an actual effort to find out the difference in requirements on **THIS** computer to run Windows should have anyone getting concerned. They are just answering the question:
"With this computer as it is now, exactly what changes (and how much more money) would be required to make it run Windows?"
This is a reasonable question, and one that any smart project manager would want to know the answer to. This is not your run of the mill 'minimum requirements', but rather a realistic and accurate minimum requirements for this computer.
Trust me, someone is going to ask the question. Maybe a government, maybe some ignorant government IT person somewhere, or a politically motivated official. But someone WILL ask the question, and if they don't know the answer, they would need to go back and either fudge it or find it out.
So knowing the answer before someone asks the question shown good planning, and project management.
I am open source, and Linux baby!
Could it be a desperate attempt of OLPC project to secure commitments from the 3-rd world governments? It is not a secret that Dr.Negroponte had difficulties to persuade targeted governments to cough up real money to buy XO machines. So far the responses do not go beyond polite "expressed interest". Does Negroponte really thinks that adding MS to the effort could help him to close the deals?
Just my two cents.
whatever it was worth... I am from a "3rd world country" a, but a price RAM to increase specs... for Windows?? the fact that this is at least a rumor is a bad side for what was once a purely open initiative - I guess I still wish them luck, but I won't be cheering for them anymore.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
The first time I heard about this was after Bill Gates (and the intel ceo) blasted the OLPC project. After a quick google, here is an article from a year ago about the subject:0 .html
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS261936762
Negroponte's publicly challenged the criticisms, reminding Gates and Intel that this is NOT a consumer machine. "We're going to help them make a Win CE version, so geez, why criticize me?"
Second, in response to complaints about the price, they have said for a long time that the $100 price point is the eventual goal, not the initial cost. From http://www.olpcnews.com/prototypes/olpc/olpc_xo_10 0_dollar_laptop.html
"The project's operators say the price should fall to $100 apiece next year, when they hope to produce 50 million of the so-called "XO" machines, before dipping below $100 by 2010 when they aim to reach 150 million of the world's poorest children.
"We're pledging to always drive the price down," Walter Bender, the group's president of software and content, told Reuters. "Rather than continuing to add features to keep the price inflated, we're keeping the feature set stable and driving the price down.""
"Get The Fuck Out."
+++ATH0
not for THIS project, at least.
;(
look - this isn't rich america throwing money away on embedded M$ licenses. (embedded since M$ doesn't like people to sell 'naked pcs').
this is meant for accessability for the poorer regions of the world.
do you think the M$ software will be FREE? of course not. so the cost increases to fund billyboy's company and his droogies.
this project has lost its way if its going to take non-free software and build a box around it.
this just sucks. too bad good things have a way of turning bad once people with money and power have their say
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
just think - deploy a whole bunch of cheap laptops to the 3rd world and have them run MS software.
and we all know how safe MS stuff is. surely no one will get viruses and SURELY no bots will get installed on those laptops..
how ironic: much of the intended audience of these cheap computers can't afford proper food on their table, yet once they get these laptops there will more than enough SPAM to go around.
ironic, in a sad kind of way.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
The real shame is that a lot of people, for no financial gain, put a lot of effort into this. Every component was chosen to get the best value per penny, to work flawlessly with linux. People toyed for hours to drain every last drop out the system. Again for nothing more than the hope it was a valid, worthwhile cause A lot of linux people dreamed this was the way to start challenging the M$ dream. Now, another linux hope/dream has died a death. M$ have bought negroponte, its simple. Everyone has a price.
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
The ironic thing about WM is that if you have a keyboard and a fairly large screen (i.e., a COMPUTER), it's great. It is really not optimized for use on a device like a cell phone or PDA, though, as its control widgets are just too tiny.
That's really just a UI criticism, though. The kernel itself is great.
+++ATH0
This is a myth.
What was said:
OLPC hasn't changed the XO's design to support Windows, and has no formal partnership with Microsoft, he says.
What you know: RAM was stepped up from 64MB to 256MB, some kind of Windoze will run on it and real price is almost double the target price.
How much of that price increase is due to the RAM increase is speculation, but some of it is. The price of memory is always falling and we always see more memory in cheaper devices. At the same time Windoze always hogs up some expensive amount of it so it will always be hard to run Windoze on cheap devices. They suck like that and will pay the price sooner or later.
M$ dies when enough people don't need them. They want to have their hooks in the developing world but it's more important for them to make sure that no viable alternative exists in developed markets. They exist by making it hard for people to get away from them not by making their shit easier. They sabotage BIOS, forbid music formats and do everything in their power to make sure nothing but M$ works anywhere. Devices like Palm, Blackberry, smartphones etc, that don't run Windoze give them fits because it shows people they can get along without M$. OLPC is just the first of the free hardware projects, so M$'s strategy can't work forever. Sooner or later good enough devices are going to be cheap enough to not be able to support M$ licensing fees, and that will be the end of them. The "network effect" will be broken and both hardware and software will have to compete on merit rather than "yeah but will it run Word."
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Right. That means putting back in an old-style boot BIOS, Trusted Platform Management, Microsoft code in System Management Mode, trusted audio and video paths, and all the other DRM stuff, I suppose. The hope with OLPC was that they were going to dump all that stuff.
"Gran Paradiso" is the development codename for Firefox 3, not just the MacOSX port. It is not a re-write, infact there won't be that much changed since Firefox 2, mostly all in the Gecko rendering engine. Though you are right that is it supposed to use native Cocoa form widgets.
http://www.mhall119.com
As a few others have hinted at the fact that MS wants to run XP on it is more of a "meh". The fact that the price almost doubled is a killer. This significantly reduces the penetration given the same budgets as before. I would prefer to see a $100 linux version and a $175 "windows ready" version. This way developing countries could make the choice (not that it would be a hard one).
.... that will really work...
Come on, third world wanting windows over the free system of linux and the likes?
First off both have the basic applications of entry level, cept unix like allows learning better concepts and functionality.
Open source then allows discovery and modification of programs... also better learning accessibility then proprietary stuff.
But then if MS wants to bait and switch, then I suppose they too is a lesson worth teaching.
Bait and switch here of course being the obvious intent of MS here. Get them hooked on cheap then up the price (like a drug dealer selling illusion)
I've used one. It is a real computer,though the keyboard's not clicky (it's actually very squishy and very rubber, not even hard keycaps, but it's also probably waterproof which is good) and is extremely tiny (perfect for child fingers). I was a bit confused by the UI, but then I grew up on Windows and then switched go GNOME. It's an entirely different way of thinking about UI and how you interact with it. There are 3 touchpads. One controls the mouse, though I forget what the other two do. I do agree that they need food and water, but I think this is aimed more at areas where there are a lot of not-too-poor-for-school (you can be too poor for free school if the opportunity cost of school is a bunch of money you need to make at a job to feed your family) but still not rich enough to have a computer at home families. There are a lot of families here in the US which don't have computers. They have to use the ones at libraries. That can be a problem with research papers depending on the library. The one at home closes at 6 on Fridays and stays closed on weekends (may have added 10-2 on Saturdays). My school has a 24hr library, which gets used quite a bit. If your area doesn't have a 24hr library though, you have a very limited amount of time during which you can do research considering that you're in school more than half of the hours during which the library is open. For people who have a trailer-park-quality life, the OLPC would be perfect.
look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
We, as homo sapiens sapiens, live socially. And we discern who is "good" and who is "bad", depending on their track record.
ie, if some acquaintance of yours busts your ass a few times, harming you in any way, you instinctively do not get close with him/her.
similarly, if someone you know proves that s/he is trustworthy and reliable continuously, you trust him/her.
in the case of microsoft, there are innumerable examples in the past where they screwed many parties both friend or foe, so due to their track record people dont trust them.
Just yesterday, i bailed out a new client of mine who was a refugee of bCentral, an ecommerce service that was run for small businesses by microsoft. Microsoft just announced that they would be closing down bcentral service at 30 april, with a 1 week or so notice. or longer, and clients should take refuge wherever they can. concentric was the company that microsoft made a deal with to take on the clients, but, they were not able to make my client's transition to oscommerce without any problems, so i was called to fix the mess. It took just 11 hours of work to fix the whole thing with 2000+ products and get him up again. Not to mention that my client felt very much screwed over by microsoft.
Read radical news here
As much as anyone may say it's logical to run Windows on a computer, when we're talking about just setting up some basic educational software, including some basic office software for word processing. Why does anyone need Windows to do that function? Clearly someone at the OLPC just bought a "nice car" that day, considering that budget-wise any commercial OS would not have fit the bill of this project unless it had some real use in the third world and developing nations. Ultimately, I think OLPC will be overshadowed by even mobile phones, which will use Linux based kernels and open APIs to do the same functions as the OLPC itself, and probably at par or less cost, excluding distribution. So, I say the OLPC is DOA, and lets get back to the real world and making more function free/open software. :)
-- Brede
Typing in from a country that is stuck amidst 1st world and 3rd world neighbors, and cant decide which category itself falls into, im saying that $175 price tag for OLPC means labeling it as "DEAD" with colorfully lettered stickers.
even in turkey $175 for such a device is way too much that any family wanting to buy one might ask the supplier whether they will let them pay in installments spreading over 12 or better, 24 months.
Needless to say that in countries that fall in southern and southeastern directions from turkey, which encompass most of the 3rd world countries, $175 will just make olpc a no gamer.
evidently someone sold their soul to some bastards. sad to see, as this olpc thing actually had a chance.
this $175 deal thing is apparently something to enable microsoft to push windows crap on them to third (and second) world so that they will create a userbase and a future upgrade market. if this shit goes through like this,i got to say that, as an it world participant and employee, i will consult anyone and any institution in my area against olpc and ensure i have a hand in its failure. despite i want it to happen very much, better not to happen, than to happen foul.
maybe everything is not over yet. If olpc contributors reassess the situation and pressurize the leaders, sold souls might be reclaimed, if it is not too late.
Read radical news here
Windows supported now that they've increased processor power, and doubled RAM and Flash? WTF, they are falling for Microsofts tricks. This raises the price and delays the product launch so that Micrsoft has time to get its marketing team out there and either buy out prospective customers of OLPC or sells them on how a WindowsPC is better for their future with some kind of 'training' or kickback deal.
Sorry but this device does not need to run Windows and I'd already heard previously that the OLPC project had already increased the system cost once to enable 'Windows support' and now they've gone way overboard in both adding more onto the price AND delaying initial shipments.
Microsoft is NOT a partner unless you like being a partner of a Black Widow. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
what are you thinking?
Part of the plan with the half gig flash disk was that the data would be stored on the school's server.
Perhaps the reality that there are a lot of places where the OLPC should go where the expectation of a school server won't be met is part of the reason for the larger flash, and they just increased the RAM to reduce thrashing while they were at it.
Also, I note that Java is part of the spec now.
I'd as soon they leave Java off, myself. I tend as much to suspect that the OLPC community has been sucked into the gotta-have-the-kitchen-sink trap as to suspect the M$ trap.
But if we do expect some of the kids to hack the kernel, there's also got to be room on persistent store for the toolchain, and a USB drive really is not a good place to keep the toolchain.
But the spectre of MSWindowsCE is troublesome.
P.S. Are you a Jew? Hm?
Whoa, way to destroy your credibility, putative dude.
doncha think?
Free software is dying a little bit every day because of people like you. Fortunately, you're still a minority.
They sabotage BIOS,
Just because your FUD slides off your recent comment history doesn't mean you should be able to keep spreading the same FUD and use it as bullet points to prop up your "evangelization" or whatever it is you call what you do here.
Other than that, I'd recommend as usual to you and every other person claiming this is some backhanded deal with "M$" to run "Windoze" on the OLPC to prove that Negroponte is getting bribes or whatever from Bill Gates himself. Please.
BTW, astroturfing your own modded-down comments and bemoaning the fact that people think you're a pointless troll is not going to help you much. What you need to do is stop trolling.
Yes it does. The OLPC doesn't have a hard drive, and so, no swap partition to offload less recently used data, when you're getting low on RAM. Get a few apps running at once, especially with a memory-heavy, interpreted language like Python, and your 128MB of RAM will be full in no time, and applications will start crashing.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
He's been asking me if I was a Jew nonstop for the past week and pasting random verses out of context from the Talmud that "prove" Jews are terrible people. I think it's because I have a big nose? I don't know.
::shrug:: What can you do? Doesn't actually "hurt" me, so I just milk it for the lulz.
I seem to have attracted an internet stalker. It's simultaneously annoying and amusing. I've tried not responding to him, but he just goes to my userpage and spams crap about how awesome he is and how I'm "just" a grad student everywhere.
He's a bit of a lunatic.
+++ATH0
"U.R.A. liar"
... oops.
"Check it"
Are you trying to make yourself feel younger by using terminology which usually only teenagers use? That's ADORABLE, Alex! Don't worry, I won't tell anyone you're a balding 47-year-old man who lives with his dad in Syracuse.
+++ATH0
I'd like to see what RedHat thinks about this. They invest so much in the new interface, and overall OS, with the hope to create something new, and more appropriate for kids, with very innovative features nowhere to be found in conventional PCs (mesh networking, real collaborative activities). Now the OLPC leadership is basically saying: "Sugar is nice, but let's put the old Windows as an alternative, regardless its feasibility in the use in a school environment, after all nobody was ever fired when buying MS products". To me that seems a slap in the faces to RedHat, and ultimately to the kids. This was supposed to be an educational project. As time goes by, it looks more as a business effort to sell dumb computers in developing countries. Nobody talks about content, how to use these things in schools.
Back hen this project was discussed by the romanian politicians, they dismissed it because, they said, "what is this toy. It can't even run Word!". Of course, I said "as usual, these politicians just want to show us how stupid they are." Looks like they knew something and I was wrong :)
We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us
"rollo" is so obviously you that I started laughing as soon as I began reading.
The rest of the comments are clearly legitimate. The overall consensus seems to be that Jeremy wrote a great introduction to the history of the GUI but that the article lacked technical detail. I'm not sure if it was supposed to HAVE any technical detail, though, as it was supposed to be a survey.
"rollo." Jesus Christ, APK. You fail AGAIN. What an incredible, unmitigated failure you are.
+++ATH0
Yes, but if the competition is Feisty/Beryl and Stripped down XP.....
That was my point. XP is not going to win that competition, even if it IS possible to run it with those specs. Besides which of course, Feisty/Beryl will run much better (Faster, Stable, Less viruses, etc.).
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Maybe I'm dense, but I can't see the connection between the quotes and your response. Negroponte insists that the platform is open, and that all software included will be open. This means third-party developers cannot be prohibited from developing non-open software for it -- Microsoft (and Apple) are apparently doing so. The fact that the project turned down Apple has nothing to do with expense but with licensing, which is exactly the same reason they would turn down a similar offer from Microsoft. Nothing in the OLPC project so far contradicts this policy. Where is the co-opting? Where is the evidence that the 75% cost increase has anything to do with Windows? $100 was always considered a very optimistic price target; $175 is still pretty damn cheap, and possibly still unrealistic.
That puts a different context on things (though your reply was cryptic enough that I hope I might reasonably be excused for jumping to my conclusion).
I withdraw my remark, and wish you good luck. Nobody should have to deal with such crap.
What blows my mind is the fact that they are using Gnome. For a system like that, you want a light WM like fvwm, Firefox, Gimp, gvim or xemacs, and Abiword (OO is fucking huge). If you want a fancy file manager, you go with rox. I like Gnome and KDE as much as the next bloke, but for a system like this they are really overkill.
If I was building a system like this (hah, hah) I'd start with an LFS base, and work up from there. LFS is *the* minimal self-compiling distro, and makes gentoo look bloated. I wouldn't use some kind of fancy, experimental UI based on Gnome. I'd have an FVWM button to launch each app. It might look like ass (I don't have leet fvwm theming skillz), but it would be as stable and functional as hell. It would be a system that they could hack and extend. And it would definitely run in 128M. If anything, the "disk" space would be more of a worry. With only 256M of the stuff, you're severely limited, especially given that the LFS base is 86M. I imagine you'd end up playing strange games with filesystem compression, removing all the headers, stripping out Xorg, and so on.
And yes, it should be able to compile itself. Anything else would defeat the purpose of using OSS. Yes, I'm looking at you, Ubuntu.
Sorry but the theme of the OLPC is to keep an open system that children can learn from, experiment with and maybe even hack. Hacking on windows is limited to editing registry entries and malware. but lets ignore that for a moment. You want to write windows programs? Last I checked you had two compiler options anymore: Microsoft and Microsoft. Even the cost of visual basic is going to be close to $100 US. Lets figure too that Windows will include, guess what, Internet Explorer and Outlook so now you are going to need to install anti-malware crap and the entire machine is just going to groan and grind. I just can't see how putting windows on this thing is going to do anything but screw it up - and maybe that's the intention. Sorry, but I've gotten pretty jaded towards microsoft the last 15 years.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
This is a Linux project. To keep Microsoft's grubby fingers out I would have created a bios that just doesn't boot Windows.
Problem solved.
You have no clue what you're talking about.
That "*unbelievably* slowly" is a distinct sign that it was constantly swapping out. If you didn't have any swap partition at all, it wouldn't slow down one bit, and presumably, it would have been usable long enough for you to start-up several apps, and watch them just crash when they couldn't allocate the memory they need.
Filesystem compression would make it perform like a dog.
Don't just blame Ubuntu. With the exception of Slackware, I don't know of any package-based Linux distro that include dev headers with the normal binary packages. And it's certainly not because they take up a non-trivial amount of space...
On the BSD side, though, they all do.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Now that it is also going to be a vector for the Windows cancer will surely leave many people feeling violated. I know I do, and my contribution was tiny compatred with others.
I really believe that OLPC could be way better if it did not have to support Windows. For example, using an ARM instead of an x86 would have reduced cost and power consuumption.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Outside the US, your weaker dollar makes the OLPC cheaper for everyone else, as $175US is less in their local currency.
Before, probably no one would steal the thing. Now, just wait 24 hours and the machines will go into the black market. If I were in charge of buying this thing for a government, the fact it runs windoze would automatically make me cancel the order.
If you have a wireless mesh community with nodes being 'dissapeared' 10km away, you get a head start.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I would love to see an economic and technical analysis of what Microsoft would look like if they licensed Windows+Office for $3 for each version.
A lot of the problems that people have with them might go away. You could say, well it's closed source but it's cheap at least. You could say well, it's low-quality but it's cheap at least.
The products themselves would probably be leaner. Office would be more consistent and approachable, like a typewriter, with less bloat. Windows would probably use an open source core OS like Apple does, for all the same reasons. And it would have to be reliable and satisfy users because if not somebody will do a DR-DOS.
The market for upscale computing would probably be healthier also, consisting of more than just Apple. Maybe HP would have done its own Mac OS X with their Unix. Also, I can imagine that by now the free Linux movement would have felt some impetus to, say, standardize on a Window Manager, if they want to compete with Windows+Office at $3 a pop on the commodity desktop.
If all PC's were about $200 and included $3 of OS and office suite then you could sell a billion of those. That is the replacement for the typewriter that the world is still waiting on.
A representative from Red Hat involved in the development of software for the OLPC gave a talk at my institution. He mentioned that the OLPC was the reason he was working at Red Hat, and he stressed that software contributions to the OLPC had to be in the public domain: work on the OLPC was necessarily a labor of love. The OLPC was running a stripped down Fedora, but with Windows and the price hike, I don't see the attraction for open source deveopers. Why contribute code to a proprietary closed-source monopoly? The OLPC is becoming the OLPY: one laptop per yuppie.
I support the goals of the project, and like the idea of the $100 laptop.
This is speculation, but it sounds like the project is going through a bit of an identity crisis or "second system" syndrome, since the $100 price was one of the key specs. Developing a new technology platform is hard work, because you have to get a critical mass of developers. Apple, Microsoft, and Linux have done this. BASIC and Java programming have, but Squeak/Smalltalk, Lisp, and LOGO haven't yet.
Adding features like the ability to run Windows isn't helpful here, although it does take the political heat off the project from some quarters. The problem is, supporting Windows is seen as a sign of weakness by the FOSS, and it forks the developer base.
The issue isn't any specific feature, the issues are complexity, reliability, availability of accessories, and purchasing. Where are you supposed to BUY those memory cards? It's not like there's a Fry's or Micro Center nearby.
The cost of adding SD isn't the electronics, it's the operational cost to the users. Moving parts break, dropping a computer with gadgets sticking out breaks them. Connectors increase RFI and design complexity, and decrease reliability (water and dust can get in, card guides can break, cards get stuck).
I'd go with an external "backup device/hub" that you can network to, which would look more like a traditional PC, with disk drives, CD/DVD-ROM, and would contain the SD card ports and Wifi, Wimax, or AMSAT satellite interfaces for good measure. You would back up your laptop over wireless to this backup device.
My technical specs for a low-cost laptop would be:
- 12V DC external power connector
- solar cell battery recharge integrated into case
- ARM processor
- FPGA adjunct processor to handle other duties (wireless, graphics, USB, pwr mgmt)
- greyscale LCD w/ LED backlight
- USB ONLY as an interface over a specific memory card format.
- Accepts 6 AA batteries (NiMH) or a AA battery pack (like the Lego NXT education model)
ARM helps avoid the temptations of Windows and closed-source or 'binary' drivers for Wintel. Windows Mobile is a better candidate OS for that processor. This would make it more like a PDA, and you might even produce a PDA version later on. Color is not necessary for a solid UI, although many expect it.I'm not really a fan of USB, because it divides the world into "hosts" and "devices". Things like firewire are more suitable for peer networking, and you could boot one device from another (in case of backing up a device with a broken screen). You also have the variability of power drain from unknown devices, but USB's advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and enables much more than memory expansion, since you can add external disk or specialized wireless devices to support backup and the communications restrictions popular in many developing countries.
I'd also make two different models
Well, given a version of OS X is going to run on the iPhone - I would bet SJ could get a version of OS X to run.
At least it's entertaining. Sort of.
(And, thank you.)
+++ATH0
Even poorer trolling others, which you will regret, legally.
I can't wait. Please see if you can get a lawyer to take that case. I look forward to it.
TROLLINGS SI TEH AGANST TEH LAW!!1
Also, I don't think you know what "static" means. Go look for a paper on an IO library called "IOLite," and read about buffer aggregates, and then get back to me, student.
+++ATH0
The reason Negroponte supposedly turned down Apple at the time was because he did not want proprietary, non-open software on the OLPC computer. Most of the project's goals centred around the OLPC software, the way it was integrated with the hardware choices and the way in which it was specially crafted for the OLPC experience. The open source operating system software is designed for the social-historical context prevalent in developing nations, Windows is crafted for business people in North America.
It's good to be open, but the original project only envisioned Open Source software running on the machine (Windows is not), and did not envision multiple choices of operating systems. As an OS choice, Windows will have to ship as the default boot if the purchaser so requests it (and you know many of them will), or at the very least be in a dual-boot scenario to the OS designed for the project. Most likely, those with Windows will have to ship with Windows alone and not even use the OLPC software as the hard drive is hardly big enough to hold both OS's.
So, instead of using a unified, lightweight software/hardware design crafted particularly for their situation, most of these kids will be faced with bloated Windows Office software running on a third rate PC. The user experience will suffer, the usability will be atrocious, and the kids will learn to be consumers of MS Office software instead of learning something about the nature of the machine they hold in their hands.
That sounds to me like Negroponte and his project have been co-opted and the way in which it was all done in secret is most disturbing of all.
It's particularly a slap in the face to Apple considering their early offer of free software and the fact that OS-X would clearly be a better choice. OS-X can run in less space than Windows, is portable to more processors, and has better performance. It also has much more flexibility in terms of interface and is at least partially open source.
It isn't just the extra RAM and hard disk, it is things like using x86 too. An ARM CPU, for instance, would have been both cheaper and lower power.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I see. Apparently you are under the mistaken impression that OLPC intends, or ever even considered for an instant, to include Windows software with the device.
The fact that the (open) device is capable of running Windows or other non-open software in no way implies endorsement of that software by the maker of the device. Your inferrence of some under-the-table collusion between OLPC and Microsoft is unwarranted and unsubstantiated. The projects goals remain clear and emphatic about the platform and software being open.
http://laptop.org/laptop/software/specs.shtml
Now who's being naive?
If Windows is available as an OS option on the OLPC project, then some buyers will certainly request it (at least that has to be Microsoft's hope). The three dollar windows/Office combo is also being made available to, and targeted at, the very same group of customers (government purchasers of developing nations who want to buy a large number of computers), as the OLPC project.
The idea that any government in the market for these devices, would buy a large quantity of the OLPC laptops, and then the same large quantity of the three dollar Windows licences, and then go to the trouble of installing Windows on all those laptops is just plain silly. The OLPC laptop would more likely have Windows pre-installed if the buyer so desired. It just makes no sense otherwise.
If Ghana or any other country in that position says they want to buy a million laptops, but they want them with Windows instead of with the OLPC software, do you really think that Negroponte will turn them down? Especially after he personally (and somewhat secretly), cooperated with MS to make sure that their software ran on the OLPC laptop? At the very least, (even for the less paranoid amongst us), this news is "cause for concern," as the saying goes, and absolutely reeks of the OLPC being co-opted, regardless of the eventual outcome.
You can say it comes down to user choice perhaps, but guess who is going to be backing up truckloads of money to these nations in order to make them "choose" a Windows deployment over the original OLPC software if it is at all possible or available as an option?
Finally, there is nothing on the pages at the link you provided that says anything about this one way or the other, it is merely a listing of the original OLPC configuration and software that was written prior to the situation at hand.
That account existed solely because of your insane ramblings on WindowsITPro, a site you are still flooding with lunacy 3 years after the article in question (By Dr. Mark Russinovich) was posted.
None of the details of this matter. The point is, I have stopped, and you have continued, because of your insane need to "finish" everything.
It's really quite sad how little you have to do with your life. Please get help.
+++ATH0
"jtd" was never banned, as you can see here: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=270 65&page=29
Apparently there was some database weirdness, because although we know it had more than 1 post, it shows 0, and shows a registration date of only a couple months ago. So something odd happened. Maybe they had to rebuild their user tables or something, I don't know. But that account was not banned, largely because I never let it get that far.
+++ATH0
You seem to be conveniently forgetting that after you exploded into one of your usual pages-long tirades, your own "friends" on TPU (fat lot of good they were when you got BANNED, huh?) told you to calm down.
YOU linked me to the page where Jeremy posted, nimrod.
Take your meds, Alex.
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From The Article:
Why?
Is this going to go like it goes with GM crops? Is Microsoft the new Monsanto for 3rd world countries? Go ahead, google for gm crops in third world countries.
Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
See you later!
This is my last reply to you.
Let's see what happens, shall we? I'll even give you a little grace period for a post right after this one.
Sincerely,
JarettKruzrSteinO'MalleyDeAngewitz
+++ATH0
For a nerd with an anti-MS obsession, you really shouldn't underestimate your enemy.
It runs Sugar, which is a slow and bloated pig written in Python. Now, pigs can indeed fly, if supplied with enough thrust.
The B2 units (hardware beta test 2) with 128 MB are often suffering from OOM (out-of-memory) events. When that happens, the kernel scores all processes and then kills the one with the worst score. That can take down the app, Sugar itself, or some random background task.
There are multi-megabyte python programs that could be written as multi-kilobyte C programs.
Basically, the existing hardware is being wasted by some less-than-excellent programmers.