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Deadline For Saying "No" To National ID
cnet-declan writes "If you don't like the idea of a federalized ID card, you have only have an hour left to let Homeland Security know your thoughts: the deadline to file comments on the Real ID Act is 5:00 pm EDT on Tuesday. Probably the best place to do that is a Web site created by an ad hoc alliance called the Privacy Coalition (they oppose the idea, but if you're a big Real ID fan you can use their site to send adoring comments too). Alternatively, Homeland Security has finally seen fit to give us an email address that you can use to submit comments on the Real ID Act. Send email to oscomments@dhs.gov with 'Docket No. DHS-2006-0030' in the Subject: line. Here's some background on what the Feds are planning."
Fuck. It's no wonder Bush won in '04.
Is it helpful for non USA citizens to also voice their disquiet?
Ian D. K. Kelly
idkk Consultancy Ltd.
"Quality through Thought"
So if we get a national ID card, will there be any legal basis for overturning the Dept. of Homeland Security's decision?
Posted by kdawson on Tuesday May 08, @04:00PM
/. tends to be several days behind on submissions. That would tell me that this submitter did not somehow immediately submit this with an hour in their entry and have it immediately (under 59 seconds) approved. So, probably the editor updated the entry and posted it at 4PM. Well, that's fine, but why do they leave blatant typographical errors (Jobs telling the industry to "loose" DRM, for example)in articles until the outcry is enough to force a change?
If you don't like the idea of a federalized ID card, you have only have an hour left
Generally,
Papers please! +5 informative
I happen to believe Real ID is a very good idea, and that it would make society better.
We already have national IDs in the form of passports, Social Security cards, etc.
I'm all for cracking down on states to make their IDs more secure and lessen counterfeits. I don't believe our privacy would change markedly than what we have today.
to have the NSA and FBI investigate you to find out why you have something to hide.
In case you hadn't noticed, this government does not give a rat's butt about the opinion of the citizenry.
--Pete
and I expect to have my information on the TSA's no fly list:
No on the National ID. Please respect state sovereignty. A national ID may compromise the diversity that makes us a prosperous nation.
What real harm a national ID can do. I'm not trying to troll, I've just never really "gotten" why a single centralized ID is more dangerous than a large number of different IDs. Would anyone care to explain? Politely and collectedly without resorting to words like "sheeple?"
When the idea of national ID cards were suggested to Reagan it was received negatively. He responded by sarcastically suggesting tattooing bar codes on everybody's heads. That killed the issue during his administration.
That would also be the Deadline For Saying "Yes" To National ID, wouldn't it? News (look at the top of the page... "news for nerds") about voting shouldn't say tell you how to vote, should it?
...to invoke Al Gore's inspiring leadership in leading us in our succession from the unjust and intolerant union from whence we sprang.
Mexico and Japan both join me in pleading, "Mr. Gore, Lead us to freedom! Lead us to that glorious future that only the great country of Mexiforniapan can offer!"
Read my Very Short "Stories"
Considering the amount of surveillance they now carry out on US citizens, I suspect the already know your thoughts.
And if you're not being watched now, you will be if you sign that petition, you troublemaker.
Oh no... it's the future.
... if you think that public comment will have ANY impact whatsoever on the ultimate decision.
.... wanna buy a bridge?
Those of you with your hands up
They are soliciting public comment because they have to. Not because they are going to pay attention.
Its obvious that anyone expressing their discontent with this new ID is affiliated with Al-Qaeda (© 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 ONI/CIA/DISA). On a serious note though, with all of the data breaches, etc., what's the worst that could happen. This place has gone to hell in a handbasket since 2000. I see no reason to avoid it lest I want to be thrown on the no fly list because I didn't want this card... S'what will end up happening like it or not...
Infiltrated dot Net
Unfortunately, the American attitude has always been something along the lines of, "If other countries have a problem with it, then we must be doing it right." This is no exception. If other people in the world try to start inserting their opinions into our domestic matters, all it will do is 1) build resentment towards those people, no matter how well-intentioned their opinions were, and 2) push our government to do the exact opposite just to show how little we care about world opinion.
I'm not saying it's right. I wish all decisions like these were made independent of what other people thought, but they're not.
Also, there's the matter of protecting your own. Everyone has the right to complain about their home team. But when others start talking about ways in which your home team sucks, people tend to get defensive of them, even of those people are right and your home team really does suck.
This is a great idea, I am all for it. It's about time we had a secure National ID.
If you are rushing, check out the EFF's page on the Real ID act. They have a summary and a sample letter. Join them while you are there!
If there is no national id card, then what will happen is that a "virtual" national id card will be created. It could take a number of forms, from collecting drivers license ID information from the states, to building biometric databases.
The thing is "Papers, please" is a quaint, obsolete phrase. In fact the problem is not people looking at your ID, the problem is that event being recorded in a database to produce a picture of your movements.
If there were a national id that was secure and could be validated without hooking up to a national database, there would actually be less government intrusion into our privacy than if they data mine information from drivers databases and track you secretly.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
What makes the national ID bad is that it's been designed by an intelligent being, instead of using an evolutionary design model.
A centralized biometric database is the real intent; a totalitarian regimes wet dream.
I emailed NO to the Real ID. It took less than a minute.
Is it kind of sad when you are afraid to submit an email in fear of being added to some kind of database of people who don't want this? As an American it makes me kinda sad when in this day of data gathering and mining, it's worrisome to voice ones opinion.
Let me be the first to say that I for one ...
With all the damage the existence of the United States Passport has done to our diversity and prosperity...
If everyone went out and got a passport, this would be a non-issue, so that raises the question for me: have those people complaining the loudest about this ever held one? It seems scarcely any different and I don't know many people with valid passports who get entirely big-brother about it. It's just a global reality and not a terribly ominous one at that.
Would it be required to carry it at all times? If not then it's not such a problem, just stuff it in the closet till your next vacation then just use it as you would a passport. Perhaps I'm missing something here.
Subject: DHS-2006-0030 Comments
Sent: Tue, 8 May 2007 16:38:33 -0400
did not reach the following recipient(s):
moscomments@dhs.gov on Tue, 8 May 2007 16:28:26 -0400
The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message
was sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
directly to find out the correct address.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
at various levels from Mayberry, PD, up to the federal forces for some large government sites, I get a kick at the conspiracy angle of this.
Seriously, don't worry about any big-brother like data mining at this point. These guys cant find a big fat "CLICK HERE DUMMY" icon on their desktop.
None of the interfaces ever work. Dickheads constantly change protocols for whatever internal political reasons they have. XML is the latest flavor of the week, so now *everything* has to be XML-'ed up.
What you would really want is a system at the federal level. There's so much beurocracy at the federal level, it's truly mind-numbing. The system would never work the way you guys think it would.
Your local PD may be really on-the-ball, and have a good IT guy, and are definately much more "in-touch" than many federal agents I've worked with.
The giant unified database of all our electronic records ( bank, phone records, internet logs, credit card purchases, medical records, court records, magazine subscriptions etc. etc. ) was officially killed in 2003, but what happened is that all of the separate functions were farmed out to smaller, separate programs. Wikipedia says "An unknown number of TIA's functions have been merged under the codename 'Topsail'."
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
It matters so much, they'll even put you on a nice list, so you get extra-special treatment at airports.
You can use this link http://ws.collactive.com/points/point?id=mNM2eWNGH VVv to head straight to the ACLU's talking points and a one click way to submit comments here.[/URL]
Clicking the "Act Now' button will allow you to email your comments directly to the Department of Homeland Security, bypassing the ridiculously difficult-to-use regulations.gov website.
[Insert the usual disclaimer here]
terrorists they would FIX THE BORDER!
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Not sure what all the fuss is here. Has anyone actually read the proposed regulation? They aren't creating a national ID database. They're simply changing the requirements for state-issued ID that federal agencies can accept for official purposes. The new requirements would be:
- full name
- gender
- date of birth
- issue/expiration dates
- unique license or ID number (not your Social Security Number)
- permanent residence
- signature
- picture
- machine-readability
- counterfeit protection measures
The regulation would also require all state databases of qualifying IDs to be accessible by other state databases.
Frankly, my current drivers license has all of those things already. No one is talking about creating a federal national identification database. Such a thing is nowhere in the proposed regulation. The regulation doesn't even require the states to issue such ID cards. Congress couldn't pass such a law if it wanted to. States are entirely free to issue non-REAL ID licenses and identifications. The only drawback is that federal agencies won't accept them as official IDs. Which doesn't really matter, because they'll always accept a passport, and you can get one of those without a drivers license anyways.
Why does everyone have their panties in a bunch? Both Slashdot and BoingBoing have been going apeshit about this for weeks now, but it just looks paranoid. The proposed regulation would not enable identity tracing with any greater degree of ease than currently exists.
Relax, people.
Just speak clearly into the phone. Any phone.
This stuff does go into the public record, and oh what fun it will be to show my hypothetical offspring my comments on Real ID. "See, kids. This is why we don't live in America anymore, and daddy can't get a passport." ;)
That, and it will help cancel out some ignorant comments I made to the feds (still available on the internet somewhere) about the plausibility of downloading movies over the internet.
The real reason we're in this bind right now is that we didn't make a huge stink about it a few years back when Congress and the Executive Branch were playing their games. Admittedly, if I (or anyone else who had known about it) had gotten on the evening news and made a bazillion websites about it, something actually could have been done about it when we had a chance. My bad.
I don't see how it's a bad thing to speak up now just because we didn't speak up loudly enough back when it might have made a difference.
-- It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
It's called a Social Security number. What's the difference? This one just might have a photo attached.
I have been working for several years under a grant from the federal government to improve health care provider access to critical information about people's health records. The largest problem we run into is trying to uniquely identify a patient and correctly match it to people's health information, which can be dispersed across many institutions. The potential benefits to public health of a Federal ID are astounding, especially when you look at the under served and public health population. Likewise, the amount of money governments and institutions are pouring into solving this problem is outrageous. As a country, we are pouring money down the drain trying to save this, and are actually increasing the risk of privacy theft. "Master Patient Indexes" are being built in every state to collect demographic data and try to match and de-duplicate records. This is completely unnecessary if there were a federal ID in place.
First off, for this discussion keep these three things in mind:
1. History seems to repeat itself.
2. As an intelligent, rational, thinking, sentient species, we understand cause and effect and learn from our mistakes (debatable-see #1 above).
3. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step."
Historically we see too many examples of a "National I.D." system being abused by government to control it's own population as the primary focus after having been sold as a 'protect us from our outside enemies' measure to the population.
Add in our (USA's) major focus at our comparitively recent founding of freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happiness
and our percieved rights and freedoms as individuals, and our deep-rooted distrust of a strong central authority.
Now add in the 'mark of the beast' religious aspect into the mix.
Put this together and you have the stereotypical, generic U.S.American's attitude.
Now at the risk of Godwin's Law:
*scene unfolds in 1944 Germany: man in black uniform with the twin lightningbolt insignia and the Death's Head emblem arrogantly confronts a small group of pedestrians*
SS officer: "I will examine your papers now, please"
Hope this helps.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
I'd really rather not be required to have such a thing. While I would love to see small government I can accept that may not be entirely reasonable in the current political climate. What I cannot accept is the implementation of the REAL ID Act. It's every argument what was levied against social security numbers times ten.
We gain what from the REAL ID Act? I false sense of security? Higher taxes? A shorter climb to an Orwellian nightmare? All of the above I'm afraid. The vice outweighs the virtue.
1. The 4th Amendment states you have a right "to be secure in your papers". That means squat if, by looking at one card for any reason, a gov't bureaucrat can pull up darn near ANYTHING about you. Does your participation in Social Security really have anything to do with being pulled over for speeding? Are your travel records really necessary for borrowing a book from the library? Does pulling health records really need cross-linking with when you got a driver's license? Is your credit rating really needed to board an airplane?
... YOU CAN'T EVEN BUY BEER!
2. Sure, they'll promise to only use relevant data appropriately. Right. Governments do not have a good history of using such pervasive data without oppression (up to and including genocide).
3. The more ID is needed to function in society, the more valuable IDs become. A national ID becomes a one-stop-shop for ID theft. Crack one card, and I become you.
4. Without the national ID, you can't participate in government. You can't enter a courthouse, visit your Congressman, etc. because you won't be able to even enter the building - no ID, no entry.
5. Ultimately a national ID is a license to exist. No license shown on demand? You're detained until your ID is found, one is created, or you get removed from society. The fact that you exist means nothing; no card, no you.
6. Corrupted data screws you over. Your file gets marked "deceased"? You're officially dead, and no amount of "but I'm standing here ranting at you!" won't help. At least with diverse cards & databases you can argue "8 out of 9 government databases say I'm still alive; please correct yours!"
7. Pervasiveness. No card, you can't function. Without that one centralized ID card, which you don't get unless everything is in order, you can't drive, fly, ride, vote, own property, get married, file suit, work,
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
I was thinking of something else.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Umm, last I checked every American citizen that legally has a job in the U.S. already has a "federalized ID card". It's called your Social Security Card. Also, if you travel outside the U.S. at all you have *two* federalized IDs in the Social Security Card and your passport (which has RFID).
Now, someone please explain to me why this ID would be any more of a big deal. I'm at a loss here. I read the draft spec. There's nothing in there that I can see that isn't already being done at a state level with personal information. They are just going to make it a national database.
...lemme tell you where it leads to.
In my country it's mandatory to carry a (real, state issued) ID wherever you go. No matter what, when a cop stops you and asks for your ID, you have to be able to prove that you're you. And they can do that whenever, whereever and for whatever reason they want. Failure to comply results in an arrest.
If you want that, don't write. It's what you'll get.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
They already passed it.
It's a done deal.. why bother asking us now. I dont trust them and I think they just want to get all these PRO letters so they can ram them at us and say "SEE you want this!"
I dont want it and if you try to give it to me you will see my answer.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
5. It's easy to stay outside the system - unless there are regular checkpoints and official stop and searches.
Oh, really? Got any advice for those of us trapped in it?
I might like to own a house someday, and I currently enjoy the ability to rent an apartment -- which you can't do without giving over your SSN so that people can run a credit check on you. I also like having a job, but it's getting impossible to find a job where someone doesn't want your SSN for credit checks, and they have to have it anyway for doing your tax and insurance paperwork. Speaking of which, try driving legally without getting insurance which requires -- you guessed it -- your social security number.
Frankly, I'd really like to know how our own illegal immigrant get by, but hearing more about yours might be handy enough. It would be nice to be able to get "off the grid" without being independantly wealthy and/or breaking laws in the process.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Did anyone else feel that they were going to be put on a federal watch list if they filled out the form on that .gov website?
This Administration doesn't give a flying fuck what you or anybody else thinks. It will do what it wants to do.
In Sweden (and in Finland, as it were part of Kingdom at that time), we've had national register about people since 1580 A.D.
For your information, we haven't had big increase in massacres, witch hunts or government abuse of power a lot since those days.
In EU area, unified drivers license, id card or password is valid ID. You don't have to carry one around all the time, this ain't Soviet Union.
Well, American paranoids are great for terrorists and scam-artists, as they can continue utilizing worlds easiest place to steal identities or forge ID, United States. If Bin Laden is hiding somewhere, he probably is doing so at say NJ - was that the place drivers license (valid id) doesn't even have a photograph. Geez.
You dont need government to stop IDENITY THEFT!
http://lifelock.com/ and the cost it low when you compare it to government programs.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
Coordinated state data bases ARE a national base the grandparent post FUD must be refuted!
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
I was all ready to write a scathing e-mail of opposition before the deadline, but in reading the FAQ, I couldn't find much I objected to.
1) It's not a national ID because states maintain the databases individually -- there is no national database.
2) It's not necessarily a remotely readable ID. RFID is optional, bar codes are mandatory. This means we need to lobby our state representatives to opt for the bar code. (Unencrypted, please, so I can read what's on it myself, as opposed to just the hackers being able to read it when the encryption scheme is broken 5 seconds after release just like CSS).
3) There's no requirement to use a REALID-compliant license for anything except a) Airplanes, b) Federal facilities, c) Nuclear power plants. I'll gladly get a REALID passport for those purposes (which I keep in an RFID-resistant bag) and lobby my state to provide non-REALID licenses.
4) The federal government isn't providing funds to states, but that's good. The states SHOULD be paying for it so they (and in turn, their voters) maintain control. If we raise local taxes and lower federal taxes, or local governments will have more power and, in turn, each of us will have more power since our votes are part of a smaller state and local pool. How many of us can even name the mayor of our city? Why? Because he's not that important.
My only real objection is that some citizens may not have all the required documents, but I'm not one of them, so I'll let someone else complain about that.
it will make her inept life of crime that much harder. http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:jirEhYabN6wJ:w ww.rachelhyman.blogspot.com/+%22ashley+heyer%22&hl =en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Since when do we have to write to government to tell them what they CANT do.. why is there program Yes, by default.
Oh right because they control us.. not the other way around and because the 10th is gone.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
This place has gone to hell in a handbasket since 2000
Yeah. Everything was hunky dory before November 2000.
It's not like the federal government was shooting mothers holding infants in their arms, setting children on fire, or pointing machine guns at the heads of 6 year olds prior to Jan 20, 2001 or anything.
Three key points I see from this link to dhs.gov
It would seem to me that the US Government is setting a standard for all the states to follow since they all do not seem to play well together. In doing so there could be an increase in efficiency with interstate information gathering and/or duplication, etc. This appears to contain no information about the federal government collecting more information than they already know (e.g., SSN and Passport numbers). Please give me links to government issued documents to show that this has changed.
netherlands?
It takes courage to stand up and voice a contrary opinion, and I think it's always been that way. Yes, we might feel afraid, but that feeling does not have to control us. I think we are going to be feeling much more fear if REALID goes into effect. It was worrisome and took courage to buck the trends in Nixon's day, in J. Edgar Hoover's day, and I daresay in George III's day, and all the way back.
Sure there might be repression and trouble for us if we speak out, but there is certainly going to be repression and trouble if we don't. Better to play the man.
$META_SIG_JOKE
It strikes me that this is the real problem, rather than a problem over who issues ID cards. It would be preferable if a bill creating national ID cards specified that it is not mandatory to carry them, nor even mandatory to have them.
Just to control all the spam emails. I would love to see all email include a field for a national id. The field is optional, but of course my mail reader would filter on that. Any fraudulent use of an ID would be a federal crime and subject to severe penalties (meaning hard jail time for a large number of uses and no mitigating circumstances).
What about other countries? They can setup there own plans, or not. Of course, my mail reader will be set to reject their emails.
-Jeff
Please learn the difference between a dissenting opinion and a troll before you moderate.
Ihre Papiere, bitte...
Zeigen Sie mir Ihre Papiere!
The real problem of the "Real Id Act" isn't that its a national ID card. It is a standardization for all states. However, what it could become is frightening.
Its that there isn't a clear limit of what states can put on the card. There isn't necessarily a database per card, but thats up to states to decide. And it is a major stepping stone to a national ID card.
And yes, that is a problem for ID theft, and it is a problem for a police state. It would be so simple to say "Where is your card? I'm sorry.. you don't have it? Please step out of the car, ma'am, you're under arrest for suspected terrorism."
Honestly, its that easy.
Oh yeah, and yes Social Security numbers are tied to the card. Not listed ON card, but directly linked.
Praise His Noodliness. RAmen.
Just before the turn of the century Declan McCullagh wrote articles about how Y2K would cause the end of the world as we know it. He was a regular part of the doom brood over at comp.software.year-2000, amplifying any minor negative aspect to Y2K he could find. You can find articles he wrote about his bias before researching the story.
Same Declan, same approach.
Interesting to see that he still amplifies government news items beyond reason. Too bad it's for CNET, though. They once held a certain cachet...
Whey don't they numeritize corporations first? It may reduce spam and other commercial problems, terrorist money laundering included.
Table-ized A.I.
If you can regain your freedom...
Again, I haven't lost any freedoms. As for Britain, it sounds like you haven't lost any freedoms either. Privacy while you are in public maybe, but not any freedoms.
you mean you haven't noticed? Do you ever fly? If so have you ever found you're barred from flying because your name, or a similar name, is on one of the Do Not Fly lists? And in 2010 will you be able to fly without showing ID? Also part of being free is being free from government intrusion.
FalconShould there be a Law?
You'd have to have been in a comma the last 7 years to not realize that Homeland Security doesn't give a fuck what you think.
Well, being in a comma for seven years certainly would do some odd things to your head, I have to give you that...
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I support Real ID in general, so I will go along with it. The most annoying part is that I currently have a state ID that doesn't expire, which makes it quite useful as a default form of ID that I don't have to worry about. Now, that ID is going to become unacceptable to many federal institutions in 2013, so I'm going to have to get a Real ID compliant one to replace it.
Get a life, and get over the fact you lost.
Now, back on topic: It wouldn't have mattered who was in office. The US government is larger then any single man. The end result is always ther same, regardless of what party is in office.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Then you better start making plans on moving elsewhere. Is coming, and it really doesnt matter what 'we the people' want.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Tell that to those who voted in the first time of their lives where the ballot had more than one option.
Wow, a whole 12 million Iraqis voted. Out of a population of more than 60 Million that's only 1 in 5 that voted.
How many countries has the US "liberated" that didn't have oil lately??
Grenada, Panama, Kuwait, Bosnia, nearly Haiti, and, of course, Afghanistan. Of course, this list only goes back to the late 80's, but you did say, "lately".
Panama? Who did the US liberate Panama from? The same person the US supported to begin with. Kuwait? Kuwait does have oil for one thing. A second is that Kuwait was not then and is not now a democracy. It is a sheikdom, ruled by a Sheikh. Haiti? The US used Papa Doc as a bulwark against communism. He is the one Haiti needed to be liberated from. Afghanistan? Though it doesn't produce oil, Afghanistan is building oil pipelines. However now the Taliban, whom Bush gave $43 millions in taxpayer money to, are regaining strength and power.
FalconShould there be a Law?
What's wrong with a standardized ID card? Something that should've been done a long time ago.
We're all going to die. i intend to deserve it.
Does the federal government not trust the states anymore?
No, the feds want all the power.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Email the department of homeland security so I can volunteer to be put in their database of accidental persecution.... I don't even feel comfortable typing their name. Er, I don't have anything to hide that I can think of, I just don't like accidents because like that one guy said, its okay to kidnap and torture a few innocents if it saves thousands of Americans lives. This nation has lost its mind. Next thing you know its a dog color or a chip in the neck. The thing is if they do it gradually enough the same people will say what harm is it. Despite all our condmenation of foreign countries that violate civil rights and privacy, we are becoming more and more like them.
As you recall the U.S. fought the bloodiest war in its history because a Northern biased Federal government wanted to abolish slavery
The US Civil War wasn't over slavery, it was all about keeping the nation united. The war didn't start until some southern states secesseded from the USA and formed the Confederate States of America.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I have to wonder just how many people posting messages about this submission realize that if a state's driver's license is sufficiently close to already incorporating all the pieces of information that the REAL ID act specifies then that state does not need to come up with another one (although they will still need to create a database that will interface with other state databases). In effect, out of 50 states I would think there is a pretty good chance that at least 1 state basically already has what will be their national ID card but yet no one is talking about that.
By the way, concerning the ability for a national ID to track your movement, a social security number can already track where you have worked, what you buy (by cross-referencing with your credit report and then cross-referencing with each credit card statement) and where you live (additional cross-references). Maybe the issue people on here have is that the national ID would make the cross-referencing easier or non-existent? What I worry about is the fact that the national ID card just brings various prophecies that much closer to occuring. It is only a matter of time, a short period of time I believe.
And finally, there won't be a national database with this system. Each state will have their own database but supposedly linked with each other. What are the repercussions of that? Speculation abounds but there are no definitive answers.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Posted an hour before the deadline. Great job.
I, personally, tend to trust centralized government more
I distrust a centralized government more than I do decentralized government, which I distrust a lot. So long as I am not harming another I should be able to do whatever I want whenever I want. And the same applies to everyone else!
I'm willing to give up a bit more of the extreme viewpoints I have in favor of a more stable one that will shift to fit the culture over longer periods of time.
As stated above, I'm not willing to give any of my freedom. Give up a little and next tyme they ask for a little more. This will continue until people stand up to them or people have no more freedom.
I'm willing to give up a bit more of the extreme viewpoints I have in favor of a more stable one that will shift to fit the culture over longer periods of time.
Yeah, like congress didn't march in lockstep to the admin's drums these past 7 years. NOT!!!
FalconShould there be a Law?
So they release a national id card and then later start having problems with identity thefts, cards stolen, counterfeit cards , etc.
So the next legislation to go into effect is "lets put the id number on the hand", that way you can always see the id number and noone can take it from you ! , uhm, no thanks, If theres even a 1 in 999 trillion chance, I'll pass.
Didnt you know that the Real ID act is being billed as not an national ID card? It sets forth standards for state issued identification... NATIONAL STANDARDS. They did this so that they can claim that its not a National ID card and make the states pay for it while retaining complete control over it.
I must admit the "I for one" joke has run its course. I got modded redundant and no one else even said it.
Seriously, there are reasons to support a National ID. I could take that argument up separately. But what I want to comment on is this. Isn't it a little bit disturbing, that among those of us who are opposed to the idea, there is a feeling of intimidation about registering dissent with the Department of Homeland Security? It reminds me eerily of a teacher querying a fourth grade class, "is there anyone here who objects to saying the Pledge of Allegiance?, If so raise your hand and you may wait out in the hallway, while the rest of us say the pledge."
Then you can rest assured that it would soon be very favorable to have one, or even more or less mandatory if you don't want to live as a hermit. You'd soon see various services that you can only access with one. Voting being the first and foremost. Next, banks would require one if you wanted to get a mortgage or even any kind of account. And so on.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"We are everywhere! For your convenience."
I think I'll pass.
This is a two sided thing, and I love the solution we have in germany
... the driving license doesnt need to have our home address because of that
... now guess what we pay for the driving license?
... we really need shielded wallets
We have European(!) driving licenses, but we also have personal ID's, so its up to our own matter which one we use for identification
Funny thing is, that your driving license costs you about a similar price like a personal ID for me
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answer to the quiz
about 10eu for personal id
about 3k eu for driving license (+driving lessons and examinations,which are mandatory)
ps:
don't cry, our next generation ID's will include rfid soon, too
If you want that, don't write. It's what you'll get.
Newsflash: they have been planning this (mandatory ID, surveillance of innocents, a system of law so huge and complex that the average individual could never understand it, the police state in general) for a long, long time. It's the career politician's wet dream: imagine the billions of dollars that will be fed into these programs, with no financial risk at all to the central planners. Clearly, those in the business of government stand to benefit from any expansion of government power, either directly or indirectly -- and the police state just happens to be one of the ultimate expansions.
Looking at history, we can observe that year after year, government expands not only in revenue but power over the people. It's only a matter of time before government is big enough to build the surveillance society, not only in terms of revenue and power, but compacency among the Believers. There's no way it can't happen -- government can only grow so big before the police state becomes a business requirement.
Guess what? That time has come. It's already here in more ways than one. And it's not going away, no matter how many people raise objection. The US government of today dwarfs the US government of only 50, let alone 100 years ago, both in revenue and power over the people. Every year we are subject to more laws than the year before. There's a reason why all this is happening: more government benefits those in the business of government.
I respect you for believing that change is possible, but history says otherwise. No government in the history of organized coercion has ever significantly and permanently reduced its powers through the process of democracy. I dare say it's not possible -- the best a man can do is move his family to a country which isn't so far down the inevitable path to oppression, the path that all governments eventually take.
You're not in the administration business, are you?
oh noes! someone knows who i am! teh horror of it all!
Methinks 90% of the whining about this is due to who happens to be president, rather than the actual issue.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
1) No help there. We all have to remember something in life... I'd say most people could probably right it down... the point is, they don't ever hand the password to anyone -- but only type it into an authorized ID box. It's at least BETTER than now, without being worse.... nothing is going to be perfect. I'd like it NOT to be perfect ID, if you understand my other rants about being anonymous is necessary for free speech.
2) No -- a faked box wouldn't work. If I type in my SSN it won't reply with "Ouch!" -- unless someone looked over my shoulder when I used a REAL box. This "man in the middle attack" would only work at an establishment with regular customers that has REAL and FAKE boxes. So, you capture the "check key" -- or authorization response with a hidden camera, and then play that back for the customer when they come in again. But that is at least more work than now... and it requires someone who is authorized for business (something to lose), and a repeat customer -- which means that anyone running such a scam has a bit more exposure than the one-hit tourist who is your ideal target. That's about the only scam that could work -- and it is a bit trickier than the phony ATMs that have done the same scam. In this case, you'd have to have a real ATM next to a phony one -- and match the customer on a second pass.
3) "I phrased it like an advantage" -- well, that is my marketing instincts coming out. NO REAL advantage on tracking -- I just thought when pushing this idea, there should be the distinct push that States would authorize, or real businesses -- not groups that have a few fat-cat investers like the one that does all the standardized testing we subject our kids to in "No Child Left Behind." Currently, we get the worst of both worlds when our government privatizes things -- but that's because they have little vision beyond their own larcenous hearts.
The Policy part of this, is that the Private/Public Key SSN Authorization Sytem (sound like a Government agency already?) is to be used where YOU WOULD USE YOUR SSN. I think the National ID will come with a policy that you will use it even more than a drivers license. As in "papers please."
Yeah, and it figures coming from the Bush group.... just do a little research on the people who show up at their regular "Prayer Breakfasts." They definitely have a lot of people who should have been tried at nuremburg on the family tree. This is a group that LOVES this kind of tracking citizens like so much cattle.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
I wonder if US citizens will be able to refuse having to carry the National ID card based on religious grounds. Christian fundamentalists could make the claim that it is too close to wearing the sign of the beast, and therefore they could refuse under the freedom to practice their religion.
when I voted straight Libertarian in the last several elections._ __
_________________________________________________
A vote against a Libertarian candidate is
a vote to abolish the Constitution itself.
I think everyone in the US should have a mandatory ID, and it should at the very least include all the information the US asks from people traveling to the US, Including fingerprints of all 10 fingers, details about preferred food menu, address of travel destination, etc.
If you think about it, hardly ANYONE believes that absolute freedom is the best way to go
I should of used "liberty" instead of "freedom" the way I lok at it. Liberty isn't just a matter of freedom but also is accepting responsibility for the actions the person does.
but there is a balance between quality of life and freedom
As far as I'm concerned there's little quality of life if there isn't liberty to enjoy. Admittedly though quality of life has more parts than just liberty.
FalconShould there be a Law?
you're probably not an anarchist.
You're right, I'm not an anarchist as I do believe in some government. However I believe in as little as possible. That being a military for the defense of the nation, a good citizens' army much like Switzerland's, and a court justice system. Add a, er the, State Department for international affairs.
FalconShould there be a Law?