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CSS of DVDs Ruled 'Ineffective' by Finnish Courts

An anonymous reader writes "The CSS protection used in DVDs has been ruled "ineffective" by Helsinki District Court. This means that CSS is not covered by the Finnish copyright law amendment of 2005 (based on EU Copyright Directive from 2001), allowing it to be freely circumvented. Quoting the press release: ' The conclusions of the court can be applied all over Europe since the word effective comes directly from the directive ... A protection measure is no longer effective, when there is widely available end-user software implementing a circumvention method. My understanding is that this is not technology-dependent. The decision can therefore be applied to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD as well in the future.'"

222 comments

  1. Catch-22? by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A protection measure is no longer effective, when there is widely available end-user software implementing a circumvention method. My understanding is that this is not technology-dependent.

    What this would seem to say to me is that in order to get to the point at which the protection measure is considered to be ineffective, you have to go through a point at which it is not widely available, and you're breaking the law.

    Does that seem a bit wrong to anyone else?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Catch-22? by lixee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That might have been true in the past. In the age of the Internet, cracks can almost instantly become widespread.

      --
      Res publica non dominetur
    2. Re:Catch-22? by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not really , think civil disobedience.

      I took from it that if it's widely hacked and in use then it's deemed useless.

      Sort of like when everyone started decrypting dv... oh my bad.

      --
      This package Does Not Contain a Winner
    3. Re:Catch-22? by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the other side of the coin, does this mean that all that is required to make it legal to crack a protection scheme is to crack it and make the crack widely available?

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    4. Re:Catch-22? by LordNimon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The alternative would be for the courts to examine the protection method and decide (without any empirical evidence) whether the method is effective. That will never work. Frankly, I think the court's ruling is a huge victory for us - because it means that crappy security systems will eventually lose any protection under copyright law.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    5. Re:Catch-22? by N8F8 · · Score: 2

      Sounds like a good way to keep the law in sync with the norms of society.

      --
      "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    6. Re:Catch-22? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 5, Funny

      In the age of the Internet, cracks can almost instantly become widespread.

      Alright trolls, here's your once-in-a-lifetime chance to have your goatse posts be ontopic.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    7. Re:Catch-22? by toleraen · · Score: 1

      Widely available doesn't just mean that anyone could download it though...it has to be available in the sense that almost any end user could apply the crack and use it effectively. Something like AnyDVD, where all the user needs to know is how to download a file and install it.

    8. Re:Catch-22? by quantaman · · Score: 3, Informative

      That might have been true in the past. In the age of the Internet, cracks can almost instantly become widespread. I don't know the precise wording of the law but I'm guessing that while it's legal to break already ineffective protection the person who made it ineffective in the first place can still be prosecuted.

      In other words you can beat a dead horse, just don't beat the horse to death.
      --
      I stole this Sig
    9. Re:Catch-22? by nsayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While it seems odd, the global Internet makes it a reasonable possibility.

      If a crack is available openly in places where it is legal, and you can get to those cracks from within a country where it is illegal, then I could still come to the conclusion that the protection is ineffecetive simply because anyone who wanted to circumvent it would trivially be able to, even if no laws in that country had yet been broken.

    10. Re:Catch-22? by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      Wow.. that is hands down the funniest goatse reference I've seen on slashdot. props to you.

    11. Re:Catch-22? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but I am a stranger in a strange land. What is "Catch-22" ?

    12. Re:Catch-22? by Stocktonian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not everyone is subject to the same law stopping reverse engineering. All that is needed is for someone to crack the encryption somewhere it is legal then distribute it so that it is widespread. Then everyone in Europe at least can use it.

      I'm sure there's something missing here and I doubt any of that would really work but we can dream can't we.

      --
      XePhi Computers sell really cheap Linux CDs! http://www.xephi.co.uk
    13. Re:Catch-22? by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      CSS was never protected under copyright law... it was protected under DMCA and any other relevant law, industrial secrets, patents and licensing. Same thing for AACS. What is copyrighted is the protected content, not the DRM.

      The ruling only means the court will not protect obsolete, weak or otherwise largely compromised DRM schemes. This is a good thing as it will prevent companies from seeking DMCA-like protection for daft/dummy/broken DRM schemes.

    14. Re:Catch-22? by jZnat · · Score: 1

      Hey, the DMCA was a modification to Title 17 of the USC: copyright. The DMCA is a part of American copyright law.

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    15. Re:Catch-22? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't grok it? See, when the company makes a profit you profit. Everybody has a share. (From Milo speaks to the church of all worlds).

    16. Re:Catch-22? by syntaxglitch · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm sorry, but I am a stranger in a strange land. What is "Catch-22" ?

      A novel, for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22

      Idiomatically, it means an especially perverse, circular no-win situation. The "catch" in the novel refers to a policy where a soldier may request to be relieved of duty for reasons of insanity; but to wish to avoid war is, the novel notes, the desire of a sane mind. The soldier would have to be crazy to fight, but to attempt to avoid it proves him sane and forces him to fight anyways.

    17. Re:Catch-22? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In that case you know how to circumvent the copy protection -> the method becomes obvious.

      You really cannot be told not to do modifications to your electronic apparel / software. No matter what the vendors try to make you believe. You are not breaking the law in any sense so you can tell your friends how to circumvent the protection too.

      You are not eating anyone's bread by telling people how to circumvent copy-protections on media they already own!

      If you think that is illegal, well hey, the corporations have been very effective at their lobbying. Photocopying and selling books & warez movies is another thing entirely.

    18. Re:Catch-22? by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you crack the protection before the product is released, have you broken any law?

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    19. Re:Catch-22? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What this would seem to say to me is that in order to get to the point at which the protection measure is considered to be ineffective, you have to go through a point at which it is not widely available, and you're breaking the law.

      Unless you can develop and distribute the countermeasure in a time (e.g. prior to the passing of the DMCA-like law) or place (e.g. Antarctica) where it isn't breaking the law.

      Finland prohibits people, while standing on Finnish soil, from opening bottles containing genies. They don't prohibit a flock of unbottled genies from flying into Finland from the outside.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    20. Re:Catch-22? by aichpvee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How many protection measures have to be ruled ineffective before they declare the law ineffective?

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    21. Re:Catch-22? by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      The DMCA copyright amendment does not make DRM itself as a technological measure any more copyrightable. While DMCA in the USA is an extension of copyright law, things are different elsewhere. In any case, only the protected content is.

      Most current DRM schemes rely on common cryptographic algorithm and secret keys, nothing copyrightable and very little (if anything) patentable there. Uncover the root keys and you can blow all DRM wide-open because pretty much everything else is non-patentable/copyrightable public knowledge.

    22. Re:Catch-22? by malsdavis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Does that seem a bit wrong to anyone else?"

      No, in the same way watching a DVD disc that someone shoplifted is not the same as actually shoplifting the DVD in the first place.

      The judgement seems to be along the lines of "the crack is so widely available, that it's not really even definable as an encryption system anymore". It's like if you leave your front door key under the mat (or in some other insanely obvious place) and then a buglar uses it to open the front door to your house and burgle it. Your insurance company won't normally pay out because effectively, you didn't really lock your door at all.

    23. Re:Catch-22? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Does that seem a bit wrong to anyone else?

      Actually, I love it because it turns a stupid law into a NOOP by twisting some of the doublespeak in the law around. Honestly, none of the protection measures are effective save for a brief time before the crack is found. Afterwards, it's just a matter of making sure that millions of geeks worldwide get a copy of the 09 F9 key or DeCSS or whatever and spread it to everyone else.

      I mean, when you can do things like write the 09 F9 key on money, how are they going to get rid of every copy of it? Yeah, I know, key revocation will buy them some time, but still, who's going to throw away all that money out there that's already been tagged with the key?

      But this gives those who oppose draconian copyright laws a great way to protest: spread circumvention software as widely as possible! You'd think that someone would get a clue after the 09 F9 bit hit the press that people are no longer willing to put up with this crap. I'm just glad at least one judge is among us.

    24. Re:Catch-22? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other side of the coin, does this mean that all that is required to make it legal to crack a protection scheme is to crack it and make the crack widely available?

      I think so. This seems like the legal equivalent of the classic <voice style='whiny'> everybody's doing it</voice> argument.

      What a weird law...it seems like either it should be legal or it shouldn't, and the difficulty of the task should have little bearing on that. I guess it guarantees that anyone busted under this law is a "dangerous hacker" and not Aunt Millie.

    25. Re:Catch-22? by Skye16 · · Score: 1

      Do genies actually come in flocks???

    26. Re:Catch-22? by mux2000 · · Score: 1

      how bout beating off a dead horse?

    27. Re:Catch-22? by olman · · Score: 1

      Shut up before they pass a new and even more draconian directive!

    28. Re:Catch-22? by icsx · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are missing the point. The CSS protection is _weak_ and it can be bypassed easily with a free prog from internet. The whole CSS is _said to be strong_ while it is not according to this court (and my personal opinion).

    29. Re:Catch-22? by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      goatse? What's wrong with you people? I thought this was a site for pedantic computer nerds. It was and is goatse.cx. The CX is an integral part of the name. Otherwise you just don't get the pun.

      (No one ever said it was a good pun, but what are you gonna do.)

    30. Re:Catch-22? by SLi · · Score: 1

      Well, it's a victory in this war in any case. We can't get everything from one case. While freedom of speech issues and such were argued in the court (I was there listening), the court didn't need to consider them because the case could be dismissed on the grounds that the protection is not effective. It raises the bar of effectiveness from what the drm mafia claims it is. Other aspects of the law might be considered in future cases.

    31. Re:Catch-22? by guruevi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The catch is to make it simple enough for everyone to use it. Like include it in the VLC decoder set and distribute it. It's not just distributing code and expecting people to patch it. It's making it simple enough that the average Joe Sixpack can just get a download and doesn't have to jump through hoops to (in this case play) use their legally bought product.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    32. Re:Catch-22? by UncleTogie · · Score: 1

      Photocopying and selling books & warez movies is another thing entirely.
      warez != movies != warez.
      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    33. Re:Catch-22? by EvilIdler · · Score: 1

      So Finnish copyright law is martyr-based?

    34. Re:Catch-22? by mythar · · Score: 1

      the catch-22 i see is that this kind of ruling will prompt the copyright alliance to fight even harder to keep these keys secret, and maybe even have a stronger argument. the next time users revolt, i see a lawyer pointing at this ruling and saying to the judge, "see? this is what will happen if you don't shut down digg."

    35. Re:Catch-22? by cabalamat3 · · Score: 1

      quantaman: I don't know the precise wording of the law

      The text of the EUCD (AKA directive 2001/29/EC) is at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do? uri=CELEX:32001L0029:EN:HTML

      The relevant part is article 6, sections (1) to (3), which reads as follows:

      1. Member States shall provide adequate legal protection against the circumvention of any effective technological measures, which the person concerned carries out in the knowledge, or with reasonable grounds to know, that he or she is pursuing that objective.

      2. Member States shall provide adequate legal protection against the manufacture, import, distribution, sale, rental, advertisement for sale or rental, or possession for commercial purposes of devices, products or components or the provision of services which:

      (a) are promoted, advertised or marketed for the purpose of circumvention of, or

      (b) have only a limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent, or

      (c) are primarily designed, produced, adapted or performed for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of,

      any effective technological measures.

      3. For the purposes of this Directive, the expression "technological measures" means any technology, device or component that, in the normal course of its operation, is designed to prevent or restrict acts, in respect of works or other subject-matter, which are not authorised by the rightholder of any copyright or any right related to copyright as provided for by law or the sui generis right provided for in Chapter III of Directive 96/9/EC. Technological measures shall be deemed "effective" where the use of a protected work or other subject-matter is controlled by the rightholders through application of an access control or protection process, such as encryption, scrambling or other transformation of the work or other subject-matter or a copy control mechanism, which achieves the protection objective.

    36. Re:Catch-22? by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      Of course. Where do you think the well-known expression "a flock of genies" comes from?

    37. Re:Catch-22? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, in the same way watching a DVD disc that someone shoplifted is not the same as actually shoplifting the DVD in the first place.

      Completely wrong analogy. It's more like a burglar stole the key to a store's door to shoplift, leave the key under the mat and tell everyone about it. Then another person decide to use that key under the mat, to shoplift something else.

    38. Re:Catch-22? by tim90402 · · Score: 1

      Your insurance company won't normally pay out because effectively, you didn't really lock your door at all. And I guess your insurance company also requires iron bars on windows? I suggest you move to a more civilized region. The whole idea here is backwards. If something is impossible, then you do not need a law to prevent it. Laws and punishment are used to prevent things that are not easy to prevent technologically.

    39. Re:Catch-22? by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --Heh; DVD encryption just got massively 0WN3D!! ;-)

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    40. Re:Catch-22? by malsdavis · · Score: 1

      "I suggest you move to a more civilized region."

      I challenge you to find an Insurance company which would pay out in such a situation.

    41. Re:Catch-22? by Pofy · · Score: 1

      Do note that the directive as written only covers protection of "rights" related to copyright, nothing else. That includes of course copying and making it available to the public, it does not cover access though (since accessing a work is not a right of the copyright holder). As an example of a not covered technical measure is one that handle region coding of the DVD. SUch protection is not covered by the directive.

      As for the implementation of the directive, countries are allowed to go further, meaning that a country can add other "rights" that can be covered, some countries has, like the USA with its DCMA, added access as such a "right" that is covered by the protection, some has not. AN example of a country that has not is Sweden which discussed the issue quite a bit in the law proposal for example mentioning region coding specifically as an example of a protection not covered. It also said that technological measures that combine protection of covered rights and non coverd rights are also excluded since otherwise it would be a way for a right holder to get protection covered that would not otherwise be so. So basically in Sweden and other countries of the EU which has note expanded the directive, many of the technological meassures protecting media is not covered at all meaning it doesn't matter if they are effective or not or if you circumvent them or not.

      Exactly how the Finnish law implemented the directive I don't know, they seem to have gone for extending it though since they have looked at the effectivness. The point is that it is not always easy to get the details by simply reading part (or even the whole) directive and it is even harder to judge individual countries' copyright laws based on it. So it is still impoirtan to know the wording of the Finnish law and how to apply it.

    42. Re:Catch-22? by cabalamat3 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't aware that the Swedish law didn't cover TPMs that provide for region coding, but this is an obviously sensible thing to do.

  2. I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretch. by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's an interesting concept though - if you can crack the system, and the cracks are easily obtainable in enduser products, then it is - for the purposes of the courts - not really encrypted. I like that thinking.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  3. Excellent News! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I congratulate our enlightened European friends on their new found freedom.

    Coding is not a crime.

  4. Obligatory Monty Python reference by Mr+Pippin · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...and there was much rejoicing!

    1. Re:Obligatory Monty Python reference by ookabooka · · Score: 1

      ...and there was much rejoicing! yay. . .

      --
      If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
  5. All Over Europe? by GuldKalle · · Score: 5, Informative

    The conclusions of the court can be applied all over Europe since the word effective comes directly from the directive.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but afaik the meaning of directive is that each member-country has to make their own law, based on these directives. So they must make their own interpretations if the directive, and therefore court rulings cannot make a direct precedence across borders.
    --
    What?
    1. Re:All Over Europe? by David+Off · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think you are right. In addition, in France at least a district court ruling would not constitute jurisprudence. Only a ruling by the Conseil d'Etat (supreme or high court) would do. The ruling could possibly be used in arguments though.

    2. Re:All Over Europe? by icsx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The directive gives instructions how to implement it to the law of each country. There is some leverage but the main concept is to be kept the same. Each country dont have to agree 100% with the directive but they have to obey it from the most parts. Good example is that copyright law directive. Officially you cant copu a CD which has a copy protection, even for your own use and they implemented that 100% here so officially, if i own a copy protected CD, i cannot transfer its content legally to my iPod. Thats how stupid these directives are. They are made up by jackasses who dont know the real meaning of them.

    3. Re:All Over Europe? by KokorHekkus · · Score: 1

      I belive you are right. But there are at least two differing ways a court can arrive to their conclusion: 1) the law based on the EU directive is found to be sufficently clear (and correctly implementing the directive) which allows the local court to deliver a decision in the case or 2) there are some uncertainties surrounding the issue at hand which prompts the court to refer the issue (not the case itself) to the European Court of Justice. Reasons for such a referal might be unclear parts of a directive (scope etc). The ECJ will then send back a clarification to be used when deciding the case.

      In this case I don't know if there was any referal to the ECJ or not but I would make a not too bold guess that in cases where there has been a referal it counts more or less as a direct precedence for any nation and otherwise not.

    4. Re:All Over Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, in Finland they still have two more court levels to grind through, guess it'll take at least year each.

      Even though Finnish supreme civil court might come in the future to same conclusion, it's still local precedent applicable in Finland only. Granted, supreme court decisions are as applicable as laws, but it's still country-level judicial decision, not EU-wide. Wait and see.

    5. Re:All Over Europe? by starwed · · Score: 1

      No, they were passed into law by jackasses who didn't know the real meaning of them. I imagine the people who actually conceived the laws had a pretty clear idea.

    6. Re:All Over Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, in some European countries court rulings don't set precendence. So a judge doesn't take into account earlier rulings on the same subject, but just interprets the law. The reason for this is that the countries in question argue that law of precedence effectively makes judges create laws, which would be against the trias politica.

    7. Re:All Over Europe? by fast+penguin · · Score: 1

      Yep, this all thing is ludicrous. In Portugal, part of EU, a supreme court ruling doesn't have any say in any other case (not as an argument, not nothing), so this Finnish ruling would mean nothing here. I very much doubt this is applicable in any other foreign countries, that empower supreme court to rule out laws or otherwise.

      (Btw, we have the Constitutional court where laws must pass through before getting enacted.)

      --
      My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
  6. Of course you know this means: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Freedom Pastry!

    You've crossed the line now, Denmark.

    - The Corporate States of America

    1. Re:Of course you know this means: by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny
      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Of course you know this means: by mooingyak · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's what those Swedes want you to think.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    3. Re:Of course you know this means: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finland != Denmark.

      Denmark just stood by and let Finland do this, so the name directive stands. And let's not even get started about Estonia.

    4. Re:Of course you know this means: by viking80 · · Score: 3, Funny

      All the swiss people in Sweden will take offense of the mixup here.

      --
      don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    5. Re:Of course you know this means: by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

      Yeah. They'll be really cheesed.

    6. Re:Of course you know this means: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the Austrians and their kangaroos?

    7. Re:Of course you know this means: by Mathness · · Score: 1

      Actually Denmark "crossed" the line some years ago, when the cultural department of the goverment in an official statement allowed the protection on any media to be circumvented so the content could be used, in particular systems (OSes) which didn't have any "legal" players (BSD, Linux etc.). That is, you are free to enjoy the content you bought in any way you please, as long as it didn't break any copyrights. And even returning/exchanging a media that can't be played if the protection on it prevented it from being used. One place to look is here http://www.kum.dk/sw5335.asp (Danish only, sorry).

      --
      Carbon based humanoid in training.
    8. Re:Of course you know this means: by beyondkaoru · · Score: 1

      pff. next you'll be telling me that the dutch don't live in the deuchland

      --
      the privacy of one's mind is important.
      you do have something to hide.
    9. Re:Of course you know this means: by Hymer · · Score: 2, Informative
      The quoted article is very interesting... it effectivly says that
      • InfoSec does not apply (in Denmark) to personal use of a digital media (you are allowed to break encryption for personal use)
      • that the copyright holder has to provide a player for any platform the users choose to use (if the holder want to be protected by the InfoSec directive)
      • that copy protection should allow you to make functional copies for personal use but prevent illegal copying (and that copyright holders should provide this functionality)
      • that it is allowed to develop and distribute Open Source software wich allow use of encrypted media as long as the use is as intended by copyright holder (you may make a player but you may not make a copier)
    10. Re:Of course you know this means: by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Don't be silly, they live in Lancaster, PA and eschew modern technology.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    11. Re:Of course you know this means: by toriver · · Score: 1

      I am confused. Isn't Sweden the capital of Oslo and therefore a city?

      Reminds me of the American difficulties with Austria and Australia.

    12. Re:Of course you know this means: by russotto · · Score: 1

      In Denmark, they call that pastry "weinerbrot".

  7. Freedom! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


    Eat your Freedom Fries, lads! These Finns need Liberatin'!"

  8. oh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fap

  9. CSS? by u-bend · · Score: 3, Funny

    Duh, what do cascading style sheets have to do with DVDs? They must have embedded web content. That must be it.

    Stop! I'm kidding. Put the flamethrowers away!

    --
    u-bend
    1. Re:CSS? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Actually, spyware is loaded via the @import command. Got to infect all those computers belonging to pirates. As for innocent bystanders, they're collateral damage in the war on pirates.

    2. Re:CSS? by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 1

      You work for Sony don't you ?

      --
      This package Does Not Contain a Winner
    3. Re:CSS? by u-bend · · Score: 1

      Ha! @pwned_by_the_man

      --
      u-bend
    4. Re:CSS? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I had a two-week contract in 2005 as a lead QA tester to test English-language content on the Japanese prototype that became the Sony Reader. :)

    5. Re:CSS? by jZnat · · Score: 1

      Better question: what does this article have to with Counter-Strike: Source? :)

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  10. But... by a-zarkon! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the enforcement technology is ineffective, does that make violating the copyright OK? Weak analogy: A stop sign in an intersection is easily circumvented, does that mean it's OK for me to blow right by them? No, I'm not on the side of the mafiaa - just not sure I agree with the logic here. I'd rather see some discussion of the copyright laws themselves rather than CSS technology to "enforce" them. My 2 cents.

    1. Re:But... by gerrysteele · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well your logic is askew... There are specific laws that deal with the use case of a stop sign denoting exactly what to do. There are no specific laws relating to the use of CSS on DVDs.

    2. Re:But... by ShiNoKaze · · Score: 1

      If your enforcement technology is a sticker that says "Please don't copy me" should it be taken seriously?

    3. Re:But... by nsayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Decrypting DVDs and violating copyrights are not the same thing. There are plenty of reasons I have for decrypting CSS without the DVD-CCA's approval which do not violate copyright law in any way.

      Your linkage of unauthorized decryption with violating copyright law is exactly what the "mafiaa" would like for you to believe. You've fallen into their trap. You have lost. Have a nice day.

    4. Re:But... by Kamots · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a very distinct (and important!) difference between bypassing enforcement technology and violating copyright.

      Copyright law spells out how to tell if a use of copyrighted works is infringing or not, and provides a list of examples of non-infringing use.

      However, enforcement technology may well prevent you from doing any sort of copying; even what is explicitly provided as an example of allowable use! Bypassing the enforcement technology for this purpose is clearly not a violation of the owners copyright.

      So, circumventing the enforcement tech, and violating copyright are two seperate things.

      Now, to continue on a slightly different topic... Why should circumvention be illegal in the first place? Copyright law already handles every case where someone who is circumventing the enforcement is doing something you'd classify as wrong. It seems to add redundancy, and more importantly, target a new class of people... namely those who are trying to excersize thier fair-use rights.

      I'll leave it up to you to speculate who could want such legislation and why they'd want it. I'm pretty sure you can figure out my thoughts on it, I'll leave you to develop your own.

    5. Re:But... by stoicfaux · · Score: 1

      There are two potential crimes. The first is bypassing the encryption. The second is copyright infringement.

      The Danes are saying that the first is no longer a crime. However, you are still required to respect copyright.

      A better analogy would be U.S. laws on drug paraphenalia and drugs. Owning a crack pipe is illegal. Owning crack is illegal. The Danes are saying that since it's so easy to obtain a crack pipe, owning a crack pipe is no longer illegal. However, owning crack is still a no-no.

    6. Re:But... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why should circumvention be illegal in the first place?

      Because the satellite TV companies, and more recently the movie industry, bought up a lot of Senators and Representatives and got some legislation passed?

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    7. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Danes are saying The Danes? Denmark is occupying Finland?!1 Those bastards!1 ;-)
    8. Re:But... by Ornedan · · Score: 1

      Still a faulty analogy, seeing as the primary purpose of a crack pipe is to smoke crack in. To continue along the same vein, but IMO more accurate would be:
      "Owning any type of a pipe is illegal, because you might smoke crack in it. Owning crack is also illegal. The finns are saying that since it's so easy to obtain a pipe and having one does not actually directly imply any crack-related activity, the pipe is no longer illegal"

    9. Re:But... by Hymer · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have misunderstood something... this doesn't allow you to copy and distribute copyrighted material.
      This makes it legal to play your DVD's on a Linux box or whatever else and it makes it legal to make backup copies of your own DVD disks to any media you like (both these things were previously violations of the DMCA).

    10. Re:But... by Kamots · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I didn't say why *is* it illegal, I asked why *should* it be illegal... :P

      The answer you gave is to why it is.

    11. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If the enforcement technology is ineffective, does that make violating the copyright OK?

      It doesn't make it legal to violate the copyright. It does make it legal to, say, publish a paper on how weak CSS is. It makes it legal to write your own DVD player software. If the emperor has no clothes, the law is an ass if it's illegal to say so.

    12. Re:But... by pjviitas · · Score: 1

      I think that everyone on here can agree that successful CSS hacking is a constant.

      Wouldn't this mean that CSS is not CSS at all and is actually just being billed as CSS?

      Makes me think of the phrase "Legend in his own mind".

      Just my 2cents
      Hedghog

    13. Re:But... by raynet · · Score: 1

      The reason copyright can apply is that while you do something to the CSS you usually have to copy some parts of the DVD to memory, thus you need permission from the copyright owner to do that. Atleast the R/MAFIAA likes to think so.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
    14. Re:But... by jd · · Score: 1

      Not quite a parallel. The ruling basically says that legal terminology which applies to the ignorant cannot be directly applied to the knowledgeable. With signage, it would be similar - if you can read the "keep off the grass" signs, you are in a different category from those who cannot - but the reverse.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    15. Re:But... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Why should circumvention be illegal in the first place? Because if it wasn't, you wouldn't be able to encrypt your personal data (by which I mean any data or content to which you have legal ownership, which of course for the studios does include motion pictures and music albums). The incidental difficulty of keeping data under your control and exercising due diligence to protect that data are an integral part of prosecuting other types of law which come back to data in the Information Age--all of which is only protectable as it pertains to your Intellectual Property rights to it.

      The problem is not the encryption, but how authorized uses are conducted. A functional system which authenticated against a central service would allow for full fair use rights to be preserved, along with the studios' rights to protect their content against piracy and illegal copying. However, the same people that hate DRM would hate the "privacy" violation (even if no personally identifying information was transmitted and despite the fact that multiple systems know that you already purchased the film). On the flip side, licensed software players could allow for exporting clips for commentary and the like, just as they allow single-frame captures. Alternatively, the encryption could be preserved easily onto archival discs for backup, but these two options would open up an easier hole for piracy. The balance of needs is complex. The easiest solution would be to keep a UPC and a certificate with a unique code in a safe place, apart from the DVD itself. If it is damaged or lost, you could provide that information and receive a new one for a nominal fee for shipping ($3 or whatever it costs since the postage hike).

      Despite all the complaining that is done, movie piracy is a big enough industry without casual copying eating into sales. I'm not saying I support the studios here, but only that they are in a difficult position, even if they weren't greedy bastards. If they don't try to protect their content, they open themselves to massive piracy levels, which litigation costs would drive up the price of DVDs, further driving up piracy. They'd also have no choice but to start prosecuting casual copiers. There is a right balance to foiling copying and preserving fair use, and it will be reached eventually.

      What society expects may well change in the mean time. Certainly "privacy" to the extent it is desired here on Slashdot is no longer important to much of the rest of the world, particularly young people. What is actually fair use (not the fictional fair use in many Slashdot arguments) probably won't change--but right now the only thing actually standing in the way of fair use is the fact that obtaining clips from your DVD is difficult to do in a way that is not illegal and that the software utilities that COULD be providing legitimate archival backup discs instead cross the line by simply removing the encryption entirely.
    16. Re:But... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Nope. You are allowed to play the thing. If playing requires making a temporary copy in memory then that is OK, because that is how a digital player works.

      An analogue player also makes copies - in the wires and in the air. In an analogue system the wires and air constitutes a delay line so your loudspeakers make an infinite number of copies between the paper cones and your ears. Even echoes off the walls in a room are copies.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    17. Re:But... by gerddie · · Score: 1

      If the emperor has no clothes, the law is an ass if it's illegal to say so.

      ... but, some sentences are just illegal!

    18. Re:But... by nsayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wrongo. In 1974 Congress revised copyright law to keep up with the nacent computer industry. To make a long story short, in order for the copying to count, the copy must be embodied in a "fixed" medium. That is, something non-volatile. RAM doesn't count.

      And besides, there are fair use exceptions to copyright law that allow for copies to be made even if they ARE in a fixed medium. Backups are a big one. Yes, it is perfectly legal for you to copy a CD and let your kids use the copy while you keep the original locked in a drawer for safekeeping. The only thing about that same scenario that makes it illegal to do the same with a DVD is the DMCA.

    19. Re:But... by Cigarra · · Score: 1

      I didn't say why *is* it illegal, I asked why *should* it be illegal... :P

      Because the (usamerican) citizens deserve it, maybe.

      After all, they could elect some other "representatives", right? And yet, they don't.

      --
      I don't have a sig.
    20. Re:But... by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      Until the US invades Finland and accepts into its case law the resolutions of Finish district courts, the DMCA is quite safe from this case...

    21. Re:But... by Hymer · · Score: 1

      You are right, I used the name DMCA as an alias for the InfoSec directive. The InfoSec directive is the EU version of DMCA with the exact same purpose but slightly adjusted to the european reality.

  11. So which politician... by lilomar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...do we have to bri^H^H^Hlobby to get some key sections from this "European Copyright Directive" tacked onto the end of the DMCA?

    And how did the Europeans get all the good lawmakers anyway? I'm thinking about moving to Finland where copyright seems to make more sense.

    --
    The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
    1. Re:So which politician... by LilWolf · · Score: 1

      "I'm thinking about moving to Finland where copyright seems to make more sense."

      Don't bother. It's the same crap here as it is in every western country. This time the court just happened to make a reasonable decision. More often they fail to do that.

    2. Re:So which politician... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't bother. The former beauty queen responsible for "finnish dmca" just got re-elected. And this isn't exactly her only fuckup.

    3. Re:So which politician... by Moggie68 · · Score: 1

      She did lose 2/3 of her votes when compared to previous elections tho'...
      And the decision is gonna be overturned in a higher court once the media companies make a couple of phonecalls...

    4. Re:So which politician... by qbwiz · · Score: 1

      a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.


      Now, using DeCSS or the thousands of variants of that doesn't require the "authority of the copyright owner." Maybe that same logic the judge used could apply in the US, although the interpretation would be somewhat more strained.
      --
      Ewige Blumenkraft.
    5. Re:So which politician... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      far behind basic rights and freedoms, some of which (speech, press, gun control) are openly assaulted on a daily basis at the EU Parliament level. While I do agree somewhat with the speech and press part, I do not see how right to bear light military weaponry without proper reason (which is a war), is a basic human right. If a goverment can't protect its citizens, organized crime (gans, mafia) will render the equivalent service. I'm sure Italians, Russians, South and North Americans, Japanese, Chinese and most Africans can recognize the relationship.
    6. Re:So which politician... by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      Wrong. The law is stupid. The lady responsible for it is, frankly, idiot. She used to be underwear model.

    7. Re:So which politician... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm thinking about moving to Finland where copyright seems to make more sense." There are at least a couple more good things in Finland: they make worlds best vodka (Finlandia, white label 50%) and they've got beautiful and intelligent women (in the same encapsulation)... and they've got saunas. If you put these three ingridients together you've got a lot of fun.

  12. This is nice, but... by cyrusmack · · Score: 1

    It doesn't recognize the right to access information we possess. Is it too much to ask for the courts to recognize this fundamental right? I'm glad CSS is ruled ineffectual, but what about BR and HD-DVD? When can we openly discuss the idea that erecting artificial barriers to entry is not something 21st century "enlightened" countries should engage in?

    -Cyrus
    http://www.bytesfree.org/

    1. Re:This is nice, but... by maxume · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What if the packaging were required to notify you that the product contained encryption that may interfere with your fair use rights?

      It isn't the current situation by any means, but I don't really want laws that force me to always pay for fair use; every once in a while, for stuff I want to watch once, encumbrance is just peachy. (and I realize that this is a hypothetical, as no such price differentiation currently exists)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:This is nice, but... by cyrusmack · · Score: 1

      It's actually not the publishers I'm targeting here - it's the anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA. However, having said that, I have wondered if DMCA reform would result in a built-in extra "premium" paid to access content. I have to say no - without the legal means to sue those who reverse-engineer data formats, I can see market forces dinging those who charge premiums. At the moment, market forces are somewhat held at bay by current copyright law.

      In your scenario, if data format encryption can be legally circumvented, then I can't see any premium for fair use remaining in place.

      -Cyrus
      http://www.bytesfree.org/

    3. Re:This is nice, but... by maxume · · Score: 1

      The question then becomes, are anti circumvention laws acceptable if they come with notification requirements?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  13. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 2

    I do too. I wonder if we will ever see that in the good old US of Corporations... Damn there i go again being forward thinking like our , dvd decrypting european overlords, and I for one welcome them.

    --
    This package Does Not Contain a Winner
  14. Nice... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...but just a note on law. Even though EU passes directives, each country must pass their own laws in parliament. The EU does not make "federal law" like in the US. They may also apply different exceptions and such. So the law is not the same and even if it were, precedents do not legally apply. However, this goes straight to the core of the directive so if other countries read "effective" the same way... The precedent sounds rather strange to me though, it's like saying "if enough people are breaking the law, the law doesn't apply". Somehow I think they meant "to the effect of" meaning "however they do it, as long as it protects a copyrighted work". Not that it matters since the actual law is probably in Finnish anyway.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Nice... by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The precedent sounds rather strange to me though, it's like saying "if enough people are breaking the law, the law doesn't apply".

      Nothing strange there IMHO, considering the following:

      1. This is how advocates of nonprofit 'piracy' have often argued. The law should represent common morality, so whatever a significant portion of people do should not be illegal.
      2. This ruling is similar to saying that you can legally break ROT13 and press Shift while loading a CD. It's saying that if CSS is so easy to break then it doesn't deserve any legal protection. Much like insurance companies that have standards for bike locks.
      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Nice... by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      The precedent sounds rather strange to me though, it's like saying "if enough people are breaking the law, the law doesn't apply". It sounds pretty reasonable to me. One of the main reasons to have laws is to provide an agreeable structure for a society. If a sizeable chunk of the population is breaking (perhaps it is more illustrative to say "ignoring") law X, that's a good indicator that law X is unnecessary or unwanted. The wisest course of action for the governing body is to repeal such laws because that is what the people want.
    3. Re:Nice... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      1) Well apart from slashdot where jury nullification seems to be all the rage (do you really want your laws overturned by a random dozen people), most seem to agree that if that's the case, they should get together for a vote and change the law. Otherwise it's only "sure we need the law to keep things civilized, but I get to break it a little..." like speeding.
      2) CSS isn't cracked by cornflakes decoder ring or a household tool or generic computer functionality. It held for several years before it was figured out how to circumvent it and it requires a very specific piece of code. It doesn't really say anything about "easy to break" only that someone found a way and distributed it far and wide. A protection method is either cracked or not cracked, it's rather binary. So if you've made the most complex crack of the most sophisticated content protection system in the world, all you have to do afterwards is to spread it around Internet to make it legal? While it would practicly nullify the DMCA, EUCD etc. I doubt that legal argument will fly...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Nice... by bluephone · · Score: 1

      If enough people are breaking a law, isn't it a good sign that said law might need reevaluated?

      --
      jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
    5. Re:Nice... by hldn · · Score: 1

      [i]"if enough people are breaking the law, the law doesn't apply".[/i]

      take a look at the 18th amendment and where it went~

      --
      http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    6. Re:Nice... by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      it's like saying "if enough people are breaking the law, the law doesn't apply".


      Isn't that the essence of democracy?
  15. Heh, heh, - ooops it was Finland, not Denmark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, Finnish / Danish, Taiwan / Thailand, Iraq / Iran, - it's all the same the us over here in Alabama.

    1. Re:Heh, heh, - ooops it was Finland, not Denmark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finnish / Danish, Taiwan / Thailand, Iraq / Iran, - it's all the same the us over here You forgot Australia/Austria. :)
    2. Re:Heh, heh, - ooops it was Finland, not Denmark by cp.tar · · Score: 4, Funny

      it's all the same the us over here in Alabama.

      I didn't know you Albanians even had Internet access...

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    3. Re:Heh, heh, - ooops it was Finland, not Denmark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't know you Albanians even had Internet access...

      We've had the Internets in Albany for a couple of years now. Governor Spitzer loves it.

      Perhaps you were thinking of Elbonia.

    4. Re:Heh, heh, - ooops it was Finland, not Denmark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was in Albania recently. They had very good internet connections even in small cities.

      Now, let's make a plan to attack Elbonia. Government wants it.

  16. encourage hackers to distribute ? by Sod75 · · Score: 1

    If I get this right, it is illegal to circumvent effective copyright protection.
    but
      since a Norwegian hacker succeeded in circumventing CSS protection used in DVDs in 1999, end-users have been able to get with ease tens of similar circumventing software from the Internet even free of charge. Some operating systems come with this kind of software pre-installed. Thus, the court concluded that CSS protection can no longer be held effective as defined in law.

    So everybody can circumvent CSS NOW, but back in 99, when it was difficult, it was still illegal...

    I guess the logical step is for hackers/crackers when the find a means of circumventing X, that they widely distribute it and aide in creating user friendly progs to do so. Since at that point the protection method becomes ineffective and so it is legal !

    Sounds like a plan to me !

    1. Re:encourage hackers to distribute ? by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 1

      It's actually a very good way to encourage reverse engineering, which actually helps you to become a better engineer. I wonder if they passed this along to help develop stronger methods of content protection.

      --
      This package Does Not Contain a Winner
    2. Re:encourage hackers to distribute ? by pjviitas · · Score: 1

      I think this is already common practice.

    3. Re:encourage hackers to distribute ? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      So everybody can circumvent CSS NOW, but back in 99, when it was difficult, it was still illegal...

      No, in 1999, it was illegal in the United States and possibly some other countries, to do that. In 1999, it was legal in Finland, as well as most other parts of the world. No Finnish laws were broken; as far as Finland was concerned, it became widespread legally -- either by being distributed before it was outlawed in Finland, or by being widely distributed by people outside of Finnish jurisdiction. From Finland's point of view, nothing illegal happened at any time.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    4. Re:encourage hackers to distribute ? by SLi · · Score: 1

      So everybody can circumvent CSS NOW, but back in 99, when it was difficult, it was still illegal...

      Ah, but you make a mistake of reading too much into the ruling. Other poins were argued in the trial (yes, I was there), but the court did not rule on them. This definitely does not mean it has said it would have been illegal in 1999, the court just didn't need to consider that.

  17. Suck on that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    suck on that, mr. MPAA!

  18. "effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by Husgaard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is a problem with this ruling, as it only takes local law into account, and not the directive. According to the EU "solidarity principle", the interpretation of local laws made because of EU directives should be in line with the directive.

    And the InfoSoc directive actually defines "effective technological measures" in article 6.3.

    The definition is contrary to common sense. Basically the directive defines "effective technological measures" as "technological measures" used by copyright holders:

    3. For the purposes of this Directive, the expression 'technological measures' means any technology, device or component that, in the normal course of its operation, is designed to prevent or restrict acts, in respect of works or other subjectmatter, which are not authorised by the rightholder of any copyright or any right related to copyright as provided for by law or the sui generis right provided for in Chapter III of Directive 96/9/EC. Technological measures shall be deemed 'effective' where the use of a protected work or other subjectmatter is controlled by the rightholders through application of an access control or protection process, such as encryption, scrambling or other transformation of the work or other subject-matter or a copy control mechanism, which achieves the protection objective.

    You can only get such perverted definitions if you let the copyright holders write the law! I'm glad that Finland will not take part in such a perversion.

    1. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you interpret "which achieves the protection objective." I think that phrase leaves plenty of room for a local court to decide that chosing a method that is too easily breakable using off the shelf tools isn't "effective"

    2. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by lilomar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Technological measures shall be deemed 'effective' where the use of a protected work or other subjectmatter is controlled by the rightholders through application of an access control or protection process, such as encryption, scrambling or other transformation of the work or other subject-matter or a copy control mechanism, which achieves the protection objective.
      (Emphasis mine)

      The nice Judges in the Helsinki District Court have decided that, with the wide-spread use of DeCSS, CSS no longer achieves it's objective. So rather than make criminals out of all the Linux users in Finland (- those who don't watch DVDs on their computers) they have rightly stated that DeCSS isn't an effective encryption mechanism, and thus, it isn't any more illegal to bypass the CSS than it would be if the DVD in question were unencrypted.
      --
      The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
    3. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by DCBoland · · Score: 1

      which achieves the protection objective. Even by the directive's definition, I think the same ruling could be reached. If everybody and his milkman can easily bypass the control mechanism (using widely available software), then clearly it doesn't achieve the protection objective, thus it is not an "effective technological measure".
      --
      I think the [MS Word] paperclip is a great idea. - Miguel de Icaza
    4. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      The nice Judges in the Helsinki District Court have decided that, with the wide-spread use of DeCSS, CSS no longer achieves it's objective. So rather than make criminals out of all the Linux users in Finland (- those who don't watch DVDs on their computers) they have rightly stated that DeCSS isn't an effective encryption mechanism, and thus, it isn't any more illegal to bypass the CSS than it would be if the DVD in question were unencrypted.


      Mod parent up! Agreed 100%. It specifically says that the copy control mechanism must achieve the protection objective. There's no other way to interpret that, at least in my mind.

      I would love to see language like this amended to the DMCA. As the DMCA reads now, vs lbh whfg qrpbqrq gur erfg bs guvf fragrapr, lbh oebxr gur ynj. ** Now isn't that ridiculous?

      ** remainder of sentence protected by patent-pending ROT13(tm) Digital Rights Management
    5. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by Hymer · · Score: 1

      What do you mean ? It's right there in the text you quoted, the very last sentence "...which achieves the protection objective.".
      The ruling says that the CSS implementation does not achive the protection objective so it is no longer protected by the directive.

    6. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      effective

      successful in producing a desired or intended result : effective solutions to environmental problems.

      (esp. of a law or policy) operative : the agreements will be effective from November.

      2 [ attrib. ] fulfilling a specified function in fact, though not formally acknowledged as such : the companies were under effective Soviet control. assessed according to actual rather than face value : an effective price of $176 million.


      from: Oxford's

      The key phrase here would be "intended result". The manufacturer/distributor made it work as it was intended to work, so it is effective. The fact that it can be circumvented in no way lessens it's ability to work as intended, ie: it's not 'defective'.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    7. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by Husgaard · · Score: 1

      As other posters have also pointed out, the "[...] which achieves the protection objective" can be read as though achievement of a protection objective is needed for "technological measures" to be called "effective". However, in the same sentence we can read that even access control or protection by scrambling (which is known not to achieve this objective) is explicitly mentioned as something that can be done to make "technological measures" "effective".

      The InfoSoc directive is full of such contradictions. It looks like opposing sides in the legislative process have tried to make as many amendments as possible without thinking about a coherent result.

      I worked a lot with this directive when it was about to be implemented into danish law. At that time the only people interested in publicly discussing it were Linux entusiasts, so I discussed it on one of the SSLUG mailing lists.

      At one time I even used these contradictions in the directive to propose an amendment (in danish) to the proposed law that would fully implement the directive, but still make it legal to circumvent DRM.

      What happened after I posted this was actually quite interesting. Until then our government had been against any exceptions, but early in the morning on the first working day after this was posted, the government released a statement saying something like: "The law has to be interpreted so that it is legal to circumvent DRM, if needed to access a lawfully purchased work on for example a Linux computer."

      Although the law text itself was not changed because of this, an explanatory note (important for when the courts have to interpret the law) was attached. When Sweden some time later implemented the directive into their local law, a similar note was incorporated into their law text.

    8. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by richie2000 · · Score: 1
      (Sorry for the bork-de-bork)

      Med teknisk åtgärd avses i detta kapitel varje verkningsfull teknik, anordning eller komponent som har utformats för att vid normalt bruk hindra eller begränsa exemplarframställning eller tillgängliggörande för allmänheten av ett upphovsrättsligt skyddat verk utan samtycke från upphovsmannen eller dennes rättsinnehavare. It seems the "effective" part of the directive carried into the Swedish law, almost verbatim.

      When Sweden some time later implemented the directive into their local law, a similar note was incorporated into their law text.

      Yep:

      Första stycket gäller inte när någon som lovligen har tillgång till ett exemplar av ett upphovsrättsligt skyddat verk, kringgår en teknisk åtgärd för att kunna se eller lyssna på verket.
      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    9. Re:"effective" means "used by copyrightholder" by xethair · · Score: 1

      Technological measures shall be deemed 'effective' where the use of a protected work or other subjectmatter is controlled by the rightholders through Note that when circumvention measures are so widespread as to be assumed, the use of the "protected" work is not controlled by the rightholders. This is how the measure is deemed less than effective. "Effective" was not redefined by the law: it has to actually offer control to the rightsholder in order to be effective. It doesn't matter how effective the measure was supposed to be.
  19. begone, and to stone turn, old troll by swschrad · · Score: 1

    the only reason it's "illegal" is that there is nobody around for the weasels to get license money from with FOSS software. no license, no magic number.

    well, the free market is saying they are a bunch of bonehead morons for taking that stance, we'll gin up a magic number with Special Midnight Magic, and screw you.

    moral: a weasel without a secret is no threat. make their secret public, and the weasel is just another annoying little pesky bug on the wind. allow access, or folks will find it anyway.

    smart judge.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  20. Well, in a democracy by Wooky_linuxer · · Score: 1

    if enough people break, consciously, a law, then one may assume the law was wrong in the first place and so it can't - or shouldn't be applied. After all laws should reflect the public interest, and it seems clear to me that the public is interested in being allowed to copy media. I wonder, how many people living in a resonable modern society which provides access to copying devices - Xerox machines, CD or DVD rewriters, computers, VHS recorders, you name it - has NEVER infringed copyright at some point? I bet very few, if any at all.

    --
    Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
  21. Mod parent funny by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wish I had some mod points. That's the funniest goatse post I've seen since it became tired (which was about 5 minutes after it was first posted).

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Mod parent funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd suggest that the goatse guy was probably feeling a bit tired before it was first posted.

    2. Re:Mod parent funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the funniest goatse post I've seen since it became tired (which was about 5 minutes after it was first posted).

      Hmmm... And what took you those five minutes?

    3. Re:Mod parent funny by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      And what took you those five minutes?

      I was furiously masturbating to it.

      Oh wait, did I say that out loud?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:Mod parent funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      O, that's just great, you ruined this entire thread for me.

      Every post that mentions either "crack" or "widespread" makes me wanna puke now.

    5. Re:Mod parent funny by HoppQ · · Score: 1

      Oh wait, did I say that out loud? I'll assume you were dictating then.
      --
      My sig will be released in 2015 third quarter. Rating pending.
    6. Re:Mod parent funny by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Had to. My hands weren't free.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  22. Yup, publicity killz blackmail OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first publicized case of blackmail in the United States involved Alexander Hamilton paying money to John Reynolds, with whose wife he had been sexually involved. To end the blackmail, Hamilton went public with a pamphlet about his involvement, thereby denying what he felt was a more serious charge against him ("pecuniary speculation") while in office. Apparently he considered adultery a lesser crime than financial chicanery, and by pleading the one, he avoided the other. McLaren believes that Hamilton's political friends and rivals who had a similar "weakness for the ladies" (including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Aaron Burr, among others) no doubt shared this view. Hamilton never took his case to court because, legally speaking, heterosexual blackmail did not exist in the 18th century. Only in the later half of the 19th century, when the concern for sexual respectability became pervasive, was the legal definition of blackmail extended to cover the exploitation of heterosexual acts. -- from a review by Vern L. Bullough of Angus McLaren's Sexual Blackmail: A Modern History (Harvard University Press, 2002).
  23. Well, then by bccomm · · Score: 5, Funny

    CSS is Finnished then.

  24. In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CSS of websites Ruled 'Ineffective & defective' by the rest of teh world

  25. This may be very, very bad by javakah · · Score: 0

    CSS is weak, but it has served to prevent the masses from being able to easily and legally copy DVDs. Because of it's weakness, it has been easy for many hardware vendors to produce DVD players. As people have said DVDs "just work". But you are seeing more problems when more complex DRM is used. You have things that consumers think are supposed to work well together not working well together (such as a lot of earlier HD stuff). By ruling that CSS is not effective enough, this will force the MPAA, etc. into using much harsher DRM (although they seem to be heading that way, it will now actually be more justified).

    I'm not a big fan of DRM, but I don't think it will be going away completely any time soon, and I'd rather just have weak DRM that is an annoyance that can be fairly easily gotten around rather than draconian restrictions that will make things stop working.

    1. Re:This may be very, very bad by Dr.+Donuts · · Score: 1

      CSS does not prevent copying. I've seen this misconception bandied around by quite a few people, some deliberately (as the DVD CCA does) and some mistakenly.

      You can copy the files off your DVD to your hard drive, and view the movie just fine. You can burn those files to another DVD, plop it into DVD drive, and that copy will play.

      The only thing CSS does is prevent you from using an *UNLICENSED* player. In other words, CSS forces the manufacturers of DVD players to get a license and play by their rules under that license.

      CSS doesn't prevent copying, and never has. It's encryption is for the purpose of preventing *playback*, not copying.

    2. Re:This may be very, very bad by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      The best possible thing that can happen is to incite these companies into DRMing their turds up so much that it's impossible to do anything with them outside a tiny number of uses.

      That, and cut off their main revenue stream by fighting back in court. Kill the MAFIAA outright, since they no longer deserve to exist.

    3. Re:This may be very, very bad by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, the copy protection data is not part of the files. The only way it can be copied directly and put into the right place on a new disk is with proffesional mastering equipment.

      If you got a playable copy without using a ripper then the DVD wasn't protected in the first place.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    4. Re:This may be very, very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rather get extremely intrusive DRM that constantly breaks things in every conceivable way. Because that kind of DRM will in the end give a devastating blow to their bottom line when the general public moves away from it.

    5. Re:This may be very, very bad by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1

      The MAFIAA would still try to force draconian DRM on you even if there wasn't a single pirated copy of anything in the world. Stopping piracy is a side component in their true agenda: They want absolute fucking control over you. They want it so that you can only watch from a selection of their choosing, at their times, which expires at the date they say if it's recorded. They want to force you to watch ads against your will (see the recent Disney/HBO thread). They want to force you to buy new formats every X years in perpetuity from them rather than just format-shift it. Given the chance, they would lock your videos up and force you to pay for every viewing.

      If DRM were Hitler, people hoping for a compromise would be Neville Chamberlain. Trying to make DRM stop by making concessions will not prevent a war. It will just delay the inevitable confrontation over who controls your computer: You or corporations & governments. I choose me.

  26. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by Hatta · · Score: 3, Informative
    I like this ruling a lot. I notice that the DMCA includes similar language.

    Sec. 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems

            `(a) VIOLATIONS REGARDING CIRCUMVENTION OF TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES- (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter.
    What are the chances of us getting a similar ruling in the US?
    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  27. Cheesy analogy by PhilipMckrack · · Score: 1

    Now don't get me wrong, I hate DRM in all forms, but isn't this just like saying if I lock my door with a lock that is easily pickable, then it's ok for someone to break in?

    1. Re:Cheesy analogy by TeknoHog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now don't get me wrong, I hate DRM in all forms, but isn't this just like saying if I lock my door with a lock that is easily pickable, then it's ok for someone to break in?

      This is probably true if you think about insurance business. Likewise, trademark law requires the owner to actively defend the trademark.

      Of course, the main problem with these analogies is that basic copyright still applies; you can break CSS in order to watch the movie on Linux, but you're not allowed to distribute tons of copies.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Cheesy analogy by Astadar · · Score: 1

      No, if you lock your door with a lock that is easily pickable, then you haven't really locked your door and people can open it (read: decrypt). Nevermind that I don't believe there's a law prohibiting opening doors (though there is/was one prohibiting the decryption). That doesn't give them permission to trespass or steal (read: copy/rip/etc) as that violates other laws.

      --
      --Coming up with something clever... please wait...
    3. Re:Cheesy analogy by Draek · · Score: 1

      no, it just means that if you lock your door with a lock that's easily pickable, it's OK for me to pick it, though breaking in would still be illegal.

      This would be a fairly meaningless decision, however, if it wasn't for the fact that it used to be illegal to pick the lock of your own house in the first place. Well, it still is, as long as you use better locks.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    4. Re:Cheesy analogy by JohnBailey · · Score: 1

      More like saying that if you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it, then opening the car door but not stealing the car or contents is not a crime = Buying/renting a DVD and playing it on your Linux computer.

      But if the thief then drives the car away or helps themselves to the contents of the car, then it is still a crime = copying for non personal use and/or putting unencrypted DVD on a bit torrent. Fair use, as in copying or format shifting for personal use is not a standard thing in Europe as far as I know, but I doubt it is enforced by the EU versions of the RIAA/MPAA

      (my first car metaphor)

      --
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
    5. Re:Cheesy analogy by azenpunk · · Score: 1

      no. it's like saying that if you leave your diary out in the open, protected only by a single strip of clear adhesive tape, then it's not a crime to open it and read the contents of your diary.

    6. Re:Cheesy analogy by init100 · · Score: 1

      isn't this just like saying if I lock my door with a lock that is easily pickable, then it's ok for someone to break in?

      No, it says that they can pick your lock, and possibly open your door, but stepping into the house would still be a crime.

  28. Fair Use by qaz2 · · Score: 1

    I believe one of the major reasons DRM was invented is to redefine and enforce the fair use rights as the studios see them.

    I have the feeling that you might view those rights differently and now so will the courts for css protected content. For
    instance, you might now view a legally obtained css protected dvd on a linux box *shudder*.

  29. Horray for Finland! by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

    So why don't they just have a government program where the entire country buys one DVD of every movie and post a bittorrent for it?

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    1. Re:Horray for Finland! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because that would still be a copyright infringement

    2. Re:Horray for Finland! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Note:

      This ruling was about whether of not CSS as a DRM is effective, since circumventing an effective DRM is illegal in Finland since 2005. It is still illegal to _copy_ the content and spread it around etc. (as it was before 2005 aswell).

  30. Blu-ray and HD-DVD implication? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs use a different copy protection method, AACS, I don't see how this ruling applies to them as well. The ruling explicit says CSS in ineffective, so I'm not sure why the defendant's counsel concludes the ruling is not 'technology-dependent' and applies to Blu-ray and HD-DVD as well.

  31. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Unlikely.

    The common interpretation here as to what 'effective' means is that it is in fact an access control as opposed to some sort of thing that is not really an access control but which is put forward as such. To use an analogy, if you put the worst lock in the world on a gate (think of a combination lock where the combination is 3), it is effective; if you put a piece of paper on the gate that merely had the word 'lock' on it, trusting to people to respect it as if it were a lock, that would not be. Or say, if the lock was made to be permanently open, then it wouldn't be effective.

    For example, in the Streambox case, there was a one bit flag to indicate whether access was allowed. This was found to be an effective control.

    Still, you're welcome to try your luck. I for one would like to see the outcome.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  32. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by Hatta · · Score: 1

    For example, in the Streambox case, there was a one bit flag to indicate whether access was allowed. This was found to be an effective control.

    Isn't there a copy protect flag on CDDA tracks? By that precedent, it would constitute an effective access control, and so CD rippers are illegal.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  33. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Does anyone use it?

    Also n.b. that there are distinct offenses for circumventing an access control and circumventing a copy control; they aren't the same. An access control would not let you listen to the CD at all but would let you copy it, if that's possible. (CSS is an access control that doesn't prohibit copying; you can copy the encrypted data from the DVD without circumventing CSS) A copy control would let you listen to the CD but not copy it.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  34. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Actually, I should clarify this: the offense is trafficking in copy control circumvention devices. Actually circumventing it would simply be copying, and thus regular old copyright infringement (to which fair use is a defense). So ripping a CD with a no copy flag would not be any different from ripping any other CD; the presence of the flag doesn't make it worse. But if someone is making a tool that circumvents the no copy flag, then that is something for which you could get in trouble.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  35. Oh, then we can post his credit card by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    number on the internet. Since it would be then easy to steal his identity, it would be ok!

  36. enlightened? LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    21st century enlightened? Hahaha. Nothing has changed since the days of Columbus. We're the just^Wrighteou^Wenlightened ones!
    Western countries are unenlightened on so many levels, but still look down on others.

  37. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

    "Fair use" is not a defense to copyright infringement. If you have a fair use action, then you're not guilty of copyright infringement. The fact that you may be sued for copyright infringement when your action is indeed covered by fair use does not change anything--I can sue you right now for copyright infringement without you ever encountering anything I own the copyright to. Fair use is a *possible* defense to *alleged* copyright infringement *iff* (not a typo) it meets specific criteria, frequently embodied into a four-prong test. Format-shifting with digital content does not currently fall into "fair use" categorically, for example. "Personal backup copies" are fair use only insofar as they are used for *archival* storage as long as the original remains functional. Moreover, "fair use" does not cover anywhere near the scope of acts that people on Slashdot seem to believe (even the Wikipedia article is misleadingly optimistic).

  38. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    Fair use is a defense to a prima facie case of copyright infringement. Also it is convenient to speak of fair use as a defense to infringement, since generally people understand what is meant.

    As for what is a fair use and what isn't, anything can be a fair use, and anything can not be a fair use. It's entirely case by case, without any kind of use automatically fair or automatically unfair. In RIAA v. Diamond, IIRC, the district court found that it could be fair use to space shift, which consisted of a person ripping a CD into an MP3 which they could then use on an MP3 player without having to use the CD. Thus it also included a format shift. Meanwhile I've never heard of any court case that said that where it was fair to make a backup, that backup couldn't be used instead of the original so long as the original was viable.

    While I agree that many people misunderstand fair use, I think that you should start with your own misunderstandings.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  39. Re:Most home security systems are "ineffective" by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

    Since when has copyright law applied to property?

  40. A U.S. judge would probably be sympathetic! by dwheeler · · Score: 1

    I can easily see this argument as a pretty strong argument in U.S. courts. Not even good lawyers can predict what U.S. courts will do in situations like this, but I'd expect judges to listen to that argument with a lot of sympathy. It makes a lot of sense: "if everyone knows how to break it, it ain't effective". IANAL, and what happens in Finland does NOT automatically get accepted in the U.S. But what Finland did is exactly what U.S. courts often have to do: when there's a term in the law that is unclear, they end up having to try to figure out what it means, and then write down a definition to clarify it for others. This isn't a bad definition of when something is NOT effective.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
    1. Re:A U.S. judge would probably be sympathetic! by MooUK · · Score: 1

      The UK version of the applicable laws, at least, specifies that "effective" pretty much means "it exists", not "it works". I can't recall the exact wording and don't particularly want to wade through legalese to find it.

      This suggests to me that the Finnish precedent is one that would be impossible in the UK. I believe the DMCA has a similar definition.

  41. Wrong analogy - your house, THEIR key by dwheeler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No. DRM says that when you leave your house, someone ELSE controls the key and locks your door, and decides under what conditions you're allowed to have your key back to enter your own house. This ruling just says that if the key to your house is widely available on the Internet, you're allowed to use that widely-available key to enter your own house.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
  42. So which politician... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

    ...do we have to bri^H^H^Hlobby to get some key sections from this "European Copyright Directive" tacked onto the end of the DMCA?

    And how did the Europeans get all the good lawmakers anyway? I'm thinking about moving to Finland where copyright seems to make more sense.

    --
    WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  43. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by mr_matticus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You misunderstand. "Fair use" is an exception to copyright protection. It is not a means of defense against copyright infringement, which would necessarily involve the commission of copyright infringement--fair use is *noninfringing* use and therefore the two are mutually exclusive. If your act is fair use, it is not copyright infringement. People don't "generally understand what is meant" if you go by what people throw around on Slashdot. Fair use is not an excuse for committing an unlawful act. It is an exemption from the applicability of the act--it is a *possible* defense to *alleged* copyright infringement in a *limited* and *variable* number of circumstances.

    There is no such thing as a prima facie defense to copyright infringement because there is no fixed definition of fair use, which you yourself point out in your own post. I also specified that format shifting is not CATEGORICALLY fair use. That does not preclude the determination of certain kinds of transfers to be covered by fair use.

  44. In fact, it's in Finnish law too. by vuo · · Score: 1
    In Laki tekijänoikeuslain muuttamisesta 821/2005, also known as Lex Karpela after then-Minister of Culture Tanja Karpela, the EU definition is there:

    "Tehokkaalla teknisellä toimenpiteellä tarkoitetaan tekniikkaa, laitetta tai osaa, joka on suunniteltu tavanomaisessa käyttötarkoituksessa estämään tai rajoittamaan teoksiin ilman tekijän tai oikeuksien muun haltijan lupaa kohdistuvia tekoja ja jolla tavoiteltu suoja saavutetaan."

    Or, translated from not Finnish, but Finnish Legalese to English, with my emphases:

    An "effective" technical measure refers to a technology, device or component that has been designed to block or restrict actions without the permission of the copyright holder, and which do accomplish the intended protection.

    The really worrying part is the telic definition: if the copyright holder INTENDS it to protect his copyright, then it's effective; and if it protects against anything AGAINST THE WILL of the copyright holder, then it's an "effective countermeasure". So, it doesn't have to be good, the copyright holder just has to wish it, and it doesn't have to protect against illegal copying, but ANYTHING the copyright holder doesn't want. However, the Finnish lawmakers made it milder by a contradictory addition (not the only one, see below the "right to watch even by countermeasure circumvention") that it must actually accomplish protection. The Helsinki District Court applies this: the effective protection must be accomplished. CSS isn't effective; it isn't even really copy-protection, it's DVD zone enforcement.

    Nevertheless, this isn't a Finland-wide precedent, even less a EU-wide precedent. If this ruling was made by the Supreme Court or the Supreme Administrative Court of Finland, it could be used as an argument by a District or Appeals court, but the ruling of a District Court, as is, doesn't have any specific legal force outside that specific case. In fact, the Common Law concept of legal precedent is NOT APPLIED in countries which have Roman Law. This includes the EU, except for the UK.

    Nevertheless, when reading thru the (Karpela's 2005 changes to the) copyright and criminal law, you can't help to notice the focus on commercial distribution of anti-copying measures. It appears that the intent was to extend the old prohibition of stealing cable TV with an analog descrambler to digital descrambling. Also, the law gives the user the right to circumvent copy-protection in order to listen or watch the copy-protected work, but not to copy it. So, effectively, you can't circumvent copy-protection, except if there's no other way. Lex Karpela is a contradictory, outright strange piece of legistlation.
    1. Re:In fact, it's in Finnish law too. by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      Aren't you forgetting about the "and which do accomplish the intended protection" part?

  45. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by whoever57 · · Score: 1

    What are the chances of us getting a similar ruling in the US?
    Let me suggest, absolutely zero. The problem is that that "effectively controls" is defined in the law and it does not mean what you would like it to mean (or indeed what any sensible person would expect it to mean).

    Here is the definition:

    (B) a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.
    The problem is that using DeCSS on a DVD is not going to be considered to be "in the ordinary course of its [the DVD's] operation".
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  46. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    "Fair use" is an exception to copyright protection. It is not a means of defense against copyright infringement, which would necessarily involve the commission of copyright infringement--fair use is *noninfringing* use and therefore the two are mutually exclusive.

    Fair use is structured as a defense. The plaintiff can ignore fair use unless and until it is invoked by the defendant. Further, the burden is on the defendant to successfully argue fair use. This is appropriate, as he is the one who is claiming that there was a fair use and is probably in the best position to show why.

    Fair use is not an excuse for committing an unlawful act.

    Not all defenses involve excuses.

    There is no such thing as a prima facie defense to copyright infringement

    There is, I suppose, but what I said was that fair use is a defense to a prima facie case of infringement. That is, once the plaintiff has satisfied his initial burden of proving infringement, the ball moves to the defendant's court in order to prove fair use. He doesn't need to do so until the plaintiff can make a prima facie case, as without that, there's nothing anyway.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  47. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    The problem is that using DeCSS on a DVD is not going to be considered to be "in the ordinary course of its [the DVD's] operation".

    IMHO (IANAL):

    It might be if DeCSS software becomes widely enough used.

    It might also be in the case of platforms that can ONLY play DVDs by using a player based on DeCSS because the "legitimate licensees" have not seen fit to make anything "legit" available, or if the DeCSS based software becomes more common than the "legit" products.

    Oh, this COULD get interesting.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  48. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by sm4096 · · Score: 1
    I seem to be reading that I could not physically use the copy as long as the original is viable. As I know that to be absurd it seems to me you must be saying that making a copy and putting the original in a safe place, and then using the copy is illegal... and not fair use???

    that backup couldn't be used instead of the original so long as the original was viable.
  49. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    The other poster is the one who asserted that. I said that I had never heard of any courts which actually said such a thing. However, making any unauthorized copies of copyrighted works (with certain exceptions) is prima facie infringing, so if it isn't fair use or within one of those narrow exceptions, it'd be illegal anyway. And as I said, fair use is determined on a case by case basis. Just because it's fair for Alice to make backup copies doesn't mean it's fair for Bob to.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  50. Appeal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ruling was made by the lowest level of court in Finland and the prosecutor still hasn't decided if he/she will appeal, so the ruling is not yet legally valid.

  51. Re:BAD analogy by grolschie · · Score: 1

    ... but isn't this just like saying if I lock my door with a lock that is easily pickable, then it's ok for someone to break in?
    More like "If I rented (or leased, licensed, etc) my house to some folk, but I locked it up and that lock was easily pickable......"

    In your analogy, the people have no inherent right to be on your property. Where as the DVD media are actually sold to people.
  52. Binary by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

    Of course. Anything that *snort* MAFIAA wants, you obviously don't want. It's either us or them. What's good for them is bad for us.

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  53. Once again... by absurdist · · Score: 1

    Having his information should not be any type of offense.

    Using his information should be, and is, illegal.

    Note the subtle distinction.

  54. a mighty chorus of slashdot voices says by alizard · · Score: 1

    NO!

  55. Re:software licenses too? by catprog · · Score: 2, Informative

    Does this mean that since product keys are widely available on the internet for licensed products, like MS office, XP, etc.. that product key use-protection is ineffective, and therefore it's ok for me to use them as much as i want?

    If you had a legally obtained copy then yes you can do what you want. If you got a illegal copy then it is still illegal

    How about buying a widely-available automatic pick gun to break into someone's house? It's not trespassing then, right?

    Using the pick gun is not illegal. Going into the house is.

    All this ruling does is allows you to break the access control. It does not give you the right to COPY materials.

    --
    My Transformation Website
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  56. This is why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Playing devil's advocate, it's harder to enforce copyright law without the DMCA. Espcecially with residential burning-dvds-for-a-friend situations, nobody's going to catch these guys and prosecute them. What is desirable to the mafiaa is a way to keep products that make that possible off store shelves (Have you ever seen a DVD ripper at Best Buy?)

    I'm not saying I agree with the decision of trading fair use for ease-of-enforcement (so I'm still not really answering your question), but I'm willing to wager that's why the DMCA was pushed for.

  57. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

    Any tactic to counter an alleged tort is structured as a defensive move. That does not mean that the tactic is a defense to the tort itself (or the crime, for that matter)--it is a defense against the *allegation* of such a crime. That is my whole point.

    The shorthand used to describe what's happening misleads people to believe that "fair use" is a defense they can invoke to protect themselves from unlawful acts they've committed. There is no such thing. Fair use is not a "yes, I did infringe on your copyright, but it's allowed"--it's "no, I did not infringe on your copyright because I hold fair use exemptions." It's the descriptor as a defense which goes on to mislead people in the general public. This seems highly semantic to the casual observer, but it is a critical distinction in the course of case law.

    Fair use is something guiding your actions from the beginning, covering a deliberate act. It is not something you scramble to find after the fact when you get busted for downloading a decrypted copy of a film. It is not a defense against infringement; it is an exception to applicability.

  58. They sidestepped the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The issue here wasn't the circumvention of DRM. The Finnish DMCA, passed in 2005, makes it illegal to hold an open discussion on bypassing DRM, which is ludicrous in a society that claims to value free speech. A couple of brave activists risked themselves to test the new law by holding an IRC discussion about bypassing DRM and reporting themselves to the police with evidence (IRC logs) afterwards. The objective was to get the judical branch to overturn the law because it violates the right to free speech. Unfortunately, instead of tackling the free speech issue once and for all, they ruled that the DRM scheme they discussed wasn't covered by the law. End result: discussing the bypassing of DRM (except for CSS which isn't now covered) is still illegal, and the law violating the right to free speech still exists.

  59. That happens all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When he buys stuff over the internet/mail order he gives out his CC details. This is used to take money from his account. However, this is not stealing, since they have a contract that allows them to take a certain ammount out of his account. If they take out more, then this becomes illegal.

    In much the same way, the DVD hack is available and I haev a license to access the DVD to view. If I use the hack to view the DVD, this is legal. If I use the hack to decrypt and seed the world with free copies, that is illegal.

    This does seem to be a bit of a problem with some hard-of-thinking people out there...

  60. Re:software licenses too? by pyrestriker · · Score: 1

    What if I purchased a robot that would go into the house instead of me, which would automatedly do tasks within the said house?

  61. NOT SUCH A PRECEDENCE. by jozmala · · Score: 1

    Firstly EU doesn't have federal law, and each and every country has its own laws based on these things.
    Secondly precedence of previous judgements isn't as important thing as it is in USA.
    And finally its isn't even Finnish Supreme court, in Finnish three level court system this happened in lowest level court. Don't make it what it isn't. What this means that it is unlikely no-one will be put to trial after this for breaking CSS, in Finland, since those interest groups they will probably loose with current wording of the law.

    Now the obligatory IANAL, but a native Finnish citizen.

    --
    ©God :Copyright is exclusive right for creator to determine the use of his creation.
  62. SCOTUS and the definition by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Actually, the definition is no better than the "effective" language

    "in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work"

    Now, this is really being picky, but the letter of the law requires that the technological measure be applied with the authority of the copyright owner. That could mean that a techological measure is not necessarily applicable when the copyright owner is not actively approving or denying use - i.e.: through a call-home interface. A contractual agreement between the encryption license holder and the consumer electronics manufacturer may not constitute actual copyright holder authorization of an access key to an end user which is not a party to the contract. Probably not the case, but a legitimate arguement.

    Also, SCOTUS often looks to international rulings when reviewing case law to apply to their decisions. This is but a drop of fresh water in an ocean, but it is nice to see that a pro-consumer ruling does exist somewhere in the world.

    I mostly agree with you that the chance of anything happening in the US is nearly zero. I still prefer to use the adjective nearly, instead of absolutly. Sort of like I have a nearly zero chance of winning the lottery and becoming independently wealthy. Using absolutely is just too depressing.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  63. Please read it again. by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 1

    The conclusions this refers to are the "effective" part. What you quote, therefore, says that since a law based nearly verbatim on the directive has been interpret in this way by a court inside an EU country, that the "it's not an effective measure" thing could be a viable legal strategy once AACS becomes as thoroughly broken as CSS.

    That is to say, get your head out of your case law arse already.

  64. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    The problem is that you cannot assert fair use unless there is a prima facie infringement. It really doesn't behave as an rebuttal to the prima facie case itself. In practice, it is indeed 'Yes there was what would have been an infringement except I did this thing which transforms that into something which is allowed.'

    Fair use is something guiding your actions from the beginning, covering a deliberate act. It is not something you scramble to find after the fact when you get busted for downloading a decrypted copy of a film.

    Ha! Trust me, plenty of people engaged in fair use have to scramble to find it. Mental state isn't a factor in fair use, so it isn't problematic.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  65. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

    If there is prima facie infringement, it's not fair use. You're just not getting this.

    And people do not have to scramble to find anything. If they're sued for copyright infringement and believe they are engaged in a fair use exemption, they will be able to explain to their attorney what they were doing and why it should be allowed. Any good attorney dealing with IP on a regular basis will know exactly how to structure the response to the complaint if that is a legitimate fair use venue. S/he will also know where the limits are generally defined in his or her jurisdiction. If you're trying to push the envelope beyond what's already established, then you're not arguing for 'fair use' at all. You're arguing that fair use should be extended to cover additional actions because they constitute a noninfringing use with no commercial damage as a result.

    This rarely works.

  66. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

    If there is prima facie infringement, it's not fair use. You're just not getting this.

    I think that the problem you are having is that you are likely reading the statute and forgetting that it is the courts who interpret it authoritatively. Agree or disagree with them, they are a legitimate part of the process, just like Congress, and you're stuck with them anyway.

    In court, if a plaintiff wants to make a prima facie case for infringement, he must show that there is a valid copyright, that he can enforce that copyright, and that there was infringement (often called 'copying' even in cases not actually involving the reproduction right). A defendant can rebut that case by showing, e.g. that there wasn't a valid copyright. Only if the plaintiff can successfully make that prima facie case, will the defendant have the need to, and in fact the opportunity to, argue fair use. If the plaintiff cannot prove the prima facie elements, fair use never even enters the courtroom.

    Yes, the statute says that fair use is not infringing. But the courts uniformly interpret this in such a way that there has to be at least an arguable infringement before fair use needs to be considered. Mainly, it is because it is easier to do it this way: if the plaintiff cannot prove that there was any infringement even if fair use was not considered, the case can be dispensed with right there! Courts reduce their workload by only considering arguments and counterarguments on an as-needed basis. Indeed, it's quite common to see courts completely ignore important issues in a case by finding a simpler way of dispensing with it. See e.g. the famous Newdow case (the 1st Amendment case about the Pledge of Allegiance) where the Supreme Court found that there was no standing, and thus didn't have to make any substantive decision whatsoever.

    Fair use is simply not part of the plaintiff's case-in-chief. It's not even properly a rebuttal. It's a defense. It's the defendant's burden, and it comes in later, rather than sooner.

    If they're sued for copyright infringement and believe they are engaged in a fair use exemption, they will be able to explain to their attorney what they were doing and why it should be allowed.

    I think that you expect too much out of parties.

    If you're trying to push the envelope beyond what's already established, then you're not arguing for 'fair use' at all. You're arguing that fair use should be extended to cover additional actions because they constitute a noninfringing use with no commercial damage as a result.

    Any use can be a fair use. It has no boundaries, other than that it must have otherwise been infringing, because an otherwise non-infringing use needn't be fair at all. It's entirely case-by-case, and so there's no point in thinking of an envelope. Indeed, the whole reason why fair use is utterly nebulous is so that it can be extended as needed. Time shifting can be a fair use, but it was novel at the time, and it certainly only wins on the fourth factor.

    As for what works and what doesn't, fair use is always tricky. Even if you think you're in well-established territory, e.g. news reporting or parody, maybe you're not, e.g. Harper & Row v. Nation, or Disney v. Air Pirates. And sometimes when you think that you're not, you are, e.g. Sony v. Universal, or Campbell v. Acuff-Rose.

    The other exceptions to copyright are much firmer ground, but also a lot more limited.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  67. Re:I think extending this to BR and HD is a stretc by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

    I think the problem you're having is in assuming that I don't deal with this every day.

    If you present a case before a judge and it's a prima facie infringement case, then there's no traction for a fair use argument. A prima facie infringement case is just that--conclusively infringement based on the presentation. Perhaps you're forgetting that the copyright holder has to demonstrate the infringement. If there is clear potential for fair use exemption, it's going to cross through the judge's head. Fair use is not an affirmative defense that has to be argued in the style of self-defense or insanity, for instance.

    "Any use can be fair use" is patently untrue. There are four criteria spelled out for fair use in 17 USC 107. What you mean to say is that the boundaries of fair use are vague, but that is true of nearly every statute on the books as offers no meaning to the discussion.

    You're also misinterpreting the mechanics of a case argued under infringement. Filing a complaint alleging infringement does not establish infringement. It establishes copying. The decision to be made is whether that copying was infringing (copyright infringement) or non-infringing (fair use, in the context of this debate). The fact that it would otherwise be infringing if not for fair use does not establish prima facie infringement. It establishes that the two are in complementary distribution. You continue to extend your argument to points not made.

    The issue is this: "fair use" is not a defense for copyright infringement. They are mutually exclusive rulings on the same act. If it is copyright infringement, it is not fair use and vice versa. A prima facie case of copyright infringement would preclude the application of fair use rights, because "fair use" is not an affirmative defense. A defense would involve the commission of an illegal act, which is negated by extenuating circumstances. If the act itself is not illegal, the rebuttal is not a defense of a crime because no crime has been committed.

    "Insanity" and "self defense" are defenses for murder charges. They accept that a murder has been committed, but the legal consequences are mitigated by extenuating circumstances. Fair use is not such a case, because the mere act of copying is not itself an illegal act and is a prima facie case of nothing. I am substantially pro-IP, but there is a clear semantic distinction here that you're not communicating effectively, and as evidenced by your further replies, don't fully understand.

  68. Keeping the metaphor by DrYak · · Score: 1

    By keeping the same analogy, the CSS method is mathematically as effective as line painted on the ground is an effective barrier against trespasser.

    And the problem with DCMA, is that the thing that is made illegal isn't the crime it self (trespassing in our analogy, or with CSS making copies that don't conform to the copyright law) but the fact of circumventing the protections however asinine it was in the first place (in our analogy : walking across the painted line, in case of CSS breaking an almost-rot13-grade protection) even if you don't infringe any other law at all (in our analogy : you have right to be there, because you actually were invited to the party - with CSS : you just want to put the movie from you LEGALLY purchased DVD on your own server, so you can watch it from there and leave the DVD where there's no risk of breaking it).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  69. Re:software licenses too? by Pofy · · Score: 1

    The EU directive in question doesn't apply to computer software (an earlier directive does with quite different content). So, in Finland for example, the part about technical measures that protect a work and the circumvention of them does not apply to computer software, it is even specifically said so in the law. The same applies to other countries in EU. Of course, some countries might have added computer software as well to be covered even if the EU directive doesn't (although technically it would have been wrong to do so).

    Of course, what you suggest can be illegal anyway for various other reasons, one being that the earlier EU directive basically mandated any copying at all for computer software to be infringement the only exception being if you are in lawfull possession of a copy in which case meaning it can't be one created in an infringing way. In those cases you are allowed to make such copies needed to use the software. It has nothing to do with the CD-key issue though.

  70. Re:BAD analogy by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

    the DVD media Hi, you gave me a link to a clip from Sweet Remedy in another thread, I wanted to let you know that it turns out they ARE on youTube: http://youtube.com/sweetremedyfilm
    The quicktime-challenged can now see it on-line at the most standard video site on the web.

    This was the closest thread I could find where DVD-buying VS on-line distribution wasn't too far off topic :)
    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  71. Re:BAD analogy by grolschie · · Score: 1

    Thanks Scrameustache. The DVD is worth getting. The content is damning. With all this info regarding the FDA scandal on public record, you would wonder why nothing has been done about it.