Cyberbullying Gains Momentum in US

interglossa writes "Findings from the Pew Internet Project are being reported on the BBC news web site, indicating a rising incidence of cyberbullying among teenagers in the United States. The study showed a slightly higher incidence among those visiting social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace. Tactics cited include being 'the victim of an aggressive email, IM or text message' and 'having a rumor spread about them online'. While the concept of cyberbully has been around in the US for a while, most coverage of the issue has focused on more extreme examples abroad. It would seem young people in the US are fully adapting to the anonymity of online interactions."

Comments

Lines need to br drawn.

[jshriverWVU]

I'm in favor of trying to keep people from bullying of emotionally/physically abusing another person. But the same time there needs to be a strong long drawn; otherwise we'll end up with a generation of people emotionally/psychologically weak.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[drinkypoo]

But the same time there needs to be a strong long drawn; otherwise we'll end up with a generation of people emotionally/psychologically weak.

Violence begets violence.

By the same token, bullying begets bullying.

Surely, if you want to make men of boys, there must be better ways than bullying, which mostly teaches the lesson that you don't need to think for yourself if you join a pack of dumbfucks.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[endianx]

By the same token, bullying begets bullying. No it really does not, except in extreme examples like Columbine. Most people who are bullied get over it and become productive members of society, as do the people who formerly bullied. My own personal experience with being bullied in school didn't make me want to do it to other people, but rather taught me why I should not. It also made me much tougher and better equipped to deal with the real world, where you can't be emotionally shielded all the time.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, one theory might be that cyberbullying prepares the next generation for the psychological warfare that will no doubt be conducted by those with less scruples than the US government.

Another theory might be that digital records of cyberbullying will exist, and the nerds will eventually data mine and perform massive psychological vengeance, perhaps including some widespread use of covert sterilization techniques.

Its a nasty world. Most of those chasing security and 'protecting the children' end up doing more harm than good.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[jshriverWVU]

My point exactly. Take a kid in rural china living on 1/2 cup of rice a day, bare foot, diseased what he considers a bad day. I see kids now who will throw a complete fit because someone looked at them funny, they couldn't stay 5 minutes somewhere, couldn't get that game 2 hours earlier, couldn't see the exact movie they wanted.

It's already starting unfortunately. There has to be a healthy way for kids to grow up and have a thicker skin. There's a big difference between someone physically beating you down and "But mom some kid in my class posted on MySpace that I'm a moron, sue him mommy so I can get a PS3 else I'm going to scream my head off for hours.".

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Nossie]

just like half the trolls on /. :-|

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[jshriverWVU]

Funny my first post was marked troll, but a reworded followup was marked +5

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[DarkIye]

I'd just like to concur, but also add that bullying should always be sought to be eliminated by those in authority; allowing it to go unchecked would see bullies running riot, having an effect much more unpleasant than character-building.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

Already there my friend. Already there.

What REALLY needs to happen is that the yungn's need to learn that people lie, its not all Unicorns and Rainbows, the world can be a cruel place, and the very little in life is probably what it seems. If any PARENT, has issue with that, I suggest you unplug there computer and tell them to read a book or go outside and play with the Johnson's kid down the street.

Now, if your kid is the one doing the bullying, you probably need to put down your beer or spritzer, and give them a little bit more attention than they've been getting. Most kids act like a**holes and brats because their homelife is pretty shi**y to begin with.

/The More You Know

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[linguizic]

"But mom some kid in my class posted on MySpace that I'm a moron, sue him mommy so I can get a PS3 else I'm going to scream my head off for hours.". I have two children of my own, and I know many children in my community and none of them would say something like that. From what I've found, my children's generation is more sensitive than mine, but they are not whiny little brats. In fact, they are more sensitive to the feelings of others and have more respect for each other as a result. Sure there are some really mean SOB's here and there, but not like when I was a child. It might just be the difference of where I'm living now vs. where I grew up, but I am looking forward to my children's generation coming of age and taking over.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[drinkypoo]

My own personal experience with being bullied in school didn't make me want to do it to other people, but rather taught me why I should not.

My own personal experience with being bullied in school made me bitter and hateful, with a tendency to lash out both physically and emotionally.

During this time period I did basically two things which gained the respect of my peers - for a moment, anyway. The first time was the first time I got into a real fight with someone determined to beat me up. He was another unpopular kid. He ended up with two black eyes and a bloody dot on his forehead. I ended up with an expulsion.

The second time, a bunch of people had been fucking with me on the city bus, going to school. One kid added one last straw, and I got up and popped him one upside the head. (Then the bus driver hit the brakes and I bounced off a pole, but wasn't damaged - just dazed. But that made two of us.)

Sure, I'm only one individual. But what I'm trying to say is that being bullied might have given me some perspective on some things, but it also made me unpredictable and dangerous. It did not make me a "real man" - I was still a pussy until I was maybe 23, 24. It wasn't until just the last few years that I grew sufficient cojones to stand up for myself in a work situation, and stopped being taken advantage of there.

Bullying is not a good thing. And the failure of most people (including yourself) to imagine that there might be a superior alternative is frankly pathetic. You are helping to maintain the culture of violence, and that is simply a bad thing.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[endianx]

You are right. It shouldn't just go unchecked. In most cases it should be the parents who solve the problem. They should be able to get together and work out a reasonable solution. I think the schools should only get involved if things are being posted online from school computers. In that case, the "bully" should probably lose computer privileges or something. The government should never get involved unless there are threats.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[jshriverWVU]

I agree physical or emotional violence is not good. What I'm concerned about is a law that lets people sue for "mental anguish" because someone on MySpace called another person an idiot. I wasn't trying to condone bullying to "make men out of boys" as much as saying there needs to be a line in between what is really offensive and what a normal healthy individual would shrug off.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[endianx]

Bullying is not a good thing. And the failure of most people (including yourself) to imagine that there might be a superior alternative is frankly pathetic. You are helping to maintain the culture of violence, and that is simply a bad thing. I never said bullying was a good thing.

Please post your "superior alternative".

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[cayenne8]

NEWS FLASH

Some groups of kids will be mean to other groups of kids. Apparently this has been going on since the dawn of time, the methods are the only things that change.

--News at 11--

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[drinkypoo]

I wasn't trying to condone bullying to "make men out of boys" as much as saying there needs to be a line in between what is really offensive and what a normal healthy individual would shrug off.

Well, I suggest you don't hold your breath. Remember, we already changed the requirement for sexual harassment from what a reasonable person would find offensive compared to whatever the offended party finds offensive! (Not to mention that it's considered sexual harassment for a man to loom over a woman, but not for a woman to loom over a man. Why, because they have tits?)

I do think that we should be free to call another person an idiot, though. Especially when they are.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Mockylock]

Take it back or I'll kick your ass.

;)

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[jedidiah]

No, you are just ASSUMING that most people get over it. Columbine only represents the most extreme reaction to bullying. The fact that most people don't go postal can't be used to assume anything else regarding whether or not people "get over it".

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[NiceGeek]

Except that the parents of bullies were probably bullies themselves and see no problem with it.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Dancindan84]

STFU and give me your lunch money, or I'm going to say you're stupid on myspace.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Original Replica]

Speaking of kids that need some realism injected into their lives:

A child's tantrum onboard a Delta commuter flight forced a pilot to make an emergency landing at Philadelphia International Airport. The forced landing was caused by a fight over apple juice. A 4-year-old wanted apple juice and when the stewardess didn't get it quick enough, the child threw a tantrum, NBC 10 reported.http://www.nbc10.com/news/13575254/detail .html?dl=headlineclick

While bullying and insulting frequently go to far, that is the way many children learn the social norm. And before everyone get all righteous about not needing to conform, let me just say bullshit. You have to understand the social norm before you walk you own path and not create unintended repercussions (ie only child syndrome). Parents allowing their kids to do things and act in ways that they would never accept outside of the parent/child relationship are just asking for that kid to be ostrisized when they get out into the world.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Admiral Ag]

The problem is that they don't really do anything about it, especially when it's at school. Bullying is an expression of a social hierarchy, and as has been pointed out (in "Why Nerds are Unpopular") social hierarchies in schools, unlike those in the real world, serve no real purpose, yet they still exist.

For teachers to really do something about bullying would mean an all out attack on the students' social hierarchy, and that requires so much effort that they just can't be bothered. I guess they figure that students only have to put up with it for a few years until they join the adult world where people tend to have a much higher standard of behaviour.

The problem is that kids can't appeal to past experience as adults can. Adults know that life won't always be like this, but for children that is harder to understand.

I guess it is a lot harder for kids who are gay or small. I can't say that I was bullied much at school, since I was one of the biggest guys there, but I saw it happen to other people and didn't like it.

The problem is not so much with the kids who are being bullied having to "toughen up", but with the fact that teachers have been stripped of their power to punish students for bullying (mainly by whining parents). People who engage in malicious slander about others know that the worst they might get is a suspension, and that isn't much of a deterrent. The police don't take it seriously, because it is just children. That leaves parents. In some cases parents will be horrified at what their children do to others and will punish them accordingly. But in most cases I can remember the parents are just as much assholes as their kids, and either don't care what their kids do, or approve of it (the sheer number of ignorant sociopaths in our societies always amazes me).

I guess the only solution is for the law to recognize that what counts as a crime between adults should also be the case for children. You can't beat up or slander another adult without consequences in most cases. The same should go for children. In fact it should be more strictly policed, since the effects of these things on children is far worse than on adults.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

you know what I did with my bully in school. I smashed in a locker with his head. I snapped after 2 years of his abuse and went fucking nuts kicking his ass hard and then going after his friends. I scared them shitless and in the principals office said everything cool no problems, we are friends and smiled a lot.

when we left, I told him that if I even think he is looking at me or his friends even though of looking at me it would take a long time before someone found any of their naked bodies tied and hanging in the trees. I was after getting the reputation that I was fucking nuts. it worked.

Saying all that calmy with a smile on your face will scare someone so bad they will never ever bug you again.

that was the 80's nowdays that would get a swat team killing your entire family. As it seems that everyones more interested in protecting the worthless pieces of shit than the vitcims.

Graned when the POS killed himself on his motorcycle 2 years later, I was the only one in the school smiling and taking the news as good news!

BTW, acting fucking nuts works great. walk directly through the worst part of any town. If you act like you are a complete nutbag whackjob even the crackheads will keep away.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Jarik_Tentsu]

I don't know if it's an American thing, or what, but having been to two Australian public Primary Schools and two High Schools (One public and one private), I have never heard of any stories of bullying or bullies like the ones I hear from America. o.O

I could have just been lucky with my schools...but the extent of bullying at the public schools was just teasing and spreading rumours...physical harassment only really happened if there was a mutually agreed fight.

In my current school, there's almost no bullying. Hell, I find it strange that people who are non-conformist, and have strange interests/skills, actually are treated very positively. Granted, I have a really good year level, I hear the other year levels are worse...but still, even here, the worst bullying is just some insulting. That's about it.

Are American schools really as bad as they are made out in movies?

~Jarik

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[R3d Jack]

People do not become strong by enduring abuse. As another poster noted, bullying promotes anger, hatred, and violence. Yes, our children are growing up less strong and more selfish, but that is a sign of poor parenting and the declining values of society. Bullying is certainly not a solution to either of those things. However, we do need to teach our children how to respond better to what I would call harsh teasing. Adding more Political Correctness will not stop adverse behavior. Children need to learn to let insults slide off (as long as that is all they are) and go on.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[brumby]

I don't know if it's an American thing, or what, but having been to two Australian public Primary Schools and two High Schools (One public and one private), I have never heard of any stories of bullying or bullies like the ones I hear from America. o.O I could have just been lucky with my schools...but the extent of bullying at the public schools was just teasing and spreading rumours...physical harassment only really happened if there was a mutually agreed fight.

You were just lucky. Outer suburban Australian High in the early 80's, I got the crap beaten out of me, repeatedly. I tried standing up for myself, and immediately found myself suspended for a week because they said, "they expected better of me". (Suspension, BTW, meant that every moment I wasn't in class I was in the office, under supervision, having to sign in and out for each class. The other kids were encouraged to walk by and make fun of me. None of this pansy sending-the-kid-home business.) After that it was open season on me, because if I fought back, *I* was the one in trouble.

I gather it's a lot rarer here than in the US. Almost every American friend I have has horror stories to match mine, whereas a lot of Australians don't believe me because they never saw anything like that here.

A lot of the verbal bullying was psyching themselves up to get physical in my case. They didn't always go all the way, but that was what it was supposed to build up to. I'm not surprised that sort of thing has moved onto the net, I pretty much expected it as soon as I heard of teenagers having social websites.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[nschubach]

Are you calling me a bully?!

Don't make me come through this monitor and beat you with your mouse!!

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[bitrex]

>Are American schools really as bad as they are made out in movies?

It often depends on who you are, where you are, and how powerful/wealthy your parents are. Many inner city public schools are exactly the hells on earth that are depicted in movies, and using the term "bullying" to describe the literal crimes against humanity that occur in them would be ridiculous. Suburban public schools are usually somewhat better, but having attended what was considered one of the "best" public high schools in the state of Massachusetts, I can attest that over the four years I was in attendance that in addition to the usual teasing and harassment there were quite a number of incidents of serious violence. The idea of a "mutually agreed fight" is something I have never heard of at least in my educational experience - nearly all of the incidents of physical violence I witnessed or heard about were 20 on 1 assaults that often left the victim needing reconstructive surgery.

Anyone with any money puts their kid into a private school, where they certainly can't be assured that their child won't be the victim of merciless teasing, but at least private schools to some degree have more safeguards to prevent physical harm and have more stringent codes of conduct vis a vis expulsion, etc.

One also has to realize that in the US, high school violence is intrinsically linked with issues of drug use and race. High schools in America's large population centers contain diverse ethnic groups, and contrary to the 'melting-pot' utopia that everyone would like to believe, many of the teenage members of said ethnic groups really don't like each other very much. Add to that the enormous profits made on the drug trade inside US schools and the activities that go along with it and I'm surprised that many schools are as good as they are.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

> I could have just been lucky with my schools...

Yeah, you were just lucky.

I managed to fly under the radar a far bit, but there was this one guy who was verbally and physically harassed constantly, he had a miserable daily existence. No doubt he's climbing some postal tower as we speak ...

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Old Benjamin]

I thought this was Slashdot? What happened to free speech, or for that matter privacy? So now you can be punished for what you say to someone else in the privacy of a private conversation? Shame on all of you!

Just think about how much oversight the government will begin doing. If they can do it in schools, how long to its legal for the federal government (no, not done, LEGAL).

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[ShieldW0lf]

You are right. It shouldn't just go unchecked. In most cases it should be the parents who solve the problem.

My dad subscribed to the "Drive you around in the car so you can find the bullies one at a time and beat the tar out of them in a fair fight, and physically intimidate any bully-parents that try to step in before you're done" method of solving the problem. It's a very effective method.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[drb_chimaera]

Its much the same at the high school I went to in the UK - while bullying went on when I was in school it was almost always emotional rather than physical. There were a few 'arranged' fights but never the 10 on 1 kickabouts that you hear about in the US schools.

The only time I ever had any bullying-related violence was when one of the *other* bullied kids decided to kick the crap out of me in an attempt to raise his station. Turned out to be a dumb move on two counts since 1) he lost and 2) he made an unprovoked attack on me while a teacher could see him (and it really was unprovoked, until that happened I'd have called him a friend).

Funnily enough what actually happened is the people bullying *me* stopped, although this happened at right around the time I stopped growing vertically and started bulking out into the biggest kid in my class too :)

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[RMH101]

"My own personal experience with being bullied in school didn't make me want to do it to other people"
And yet you disagree with the poster who said "Surely, if you want to make men of boys, there must be better ways than bullying, which mostly teaches the lesson that you don't need to think for yourself if you join a pack of dumbfucks.".

Isn't the logical inference that you were bullied, and now you don't see anything wrong with others being bullied? I.e. bullying begets bullying?

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[endianx]

Isn't the logical inference that you were bullied, and now you don't see anything wrong with others being bullied? I.e. bullying begets bullying? I never said I don't see anything wrong with it. I was only trying to make the point that not everybody who is bullied in school becomes a mass murderer. I would prefer bullying not take place. But the truth is all through live people will try and push you around, and take advantage of you, if you let them. Once we magically eliminate bullying in schools, what happens when that same kid who would have been pushed around in school has it happen in the office, and he is completely unprepared for it. He goes home crying because some coworker called him a "fagot", and he has no idea how to deal with someone being mean to him.

"Bullying" is not a problem in our schools; it is a problem in our culture. Addressing it in only one place may make things worse, not better.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[korekrash]

lol...exactly...

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Dog-Cow]

Freedom of Speech never implied freedom from consequence. Until now that is. You are exactly what is wrong with American society today.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[Anonymous Coward]

Take a kid in rural china living on 1/2 cup of rice a day, bare foot, diseased what he considers a bad day.

Sure, except that I'll bet you dollars to donuts (neither of which this poor kid has access to) that poor Wing Chu still has some older boys who give him shit and still goes crying to mom about it.

Re:Lines need to br drawn.

[drinkypoo]

Are American schools really as bad as they are made out in movies?

I don't know, ask someone who watches a lot of movies. But I can tell you that they are pretty fucking bad.

Understand that I grew up in Santa Cruz, which is pretty much a town known for hippies, surfing, and weed (which are all related concepts anyway.) And even there I was continually bullied. It's just sort of part of the culture. And yes, some truly brutal things happen as a sort of matter of course in our society. I have a friend who couldn't leave her fucking yard a lot of times because the bullies who targeted her at school became a part of her everyday life! It's not just the boys, the girls get into straight up fist fights and all of that. The "tough grrl" aesthetic is part of what's being pushed by mass media today, but the reality is that it was happening anyway just because life is hard. A friend growing up in Flint, Michigan shortly after the GM closing has some pretty horrific stories to tell. And there are, no joke, metal detectors in a growing number of urban elementary schools.

I never really had bully problems outside of school because, to abuse a cliche, I wasn't like other kids. I was running around in the woods or through drainage culverts (there's a half-mile sewer drain in Capitola that saves wicked time on foot, if you're much smaller than I am now) and I just didn't run in the same circles. Santa Cruz is a pretty rich area for the most part, and I was pretty much always one of the poorest kid at any school I attended (until my second year of high school.) So I only had to suffer during the school day. And since the bullying translated into poor school performance (whatever else you say about me, it's clear that I am not stupid - if you disagree with all the things I say the best argument you might make is that I am misled) it meant that it was more or less year-round because I got to attend summer school as well.

Suffice to say that while I don't know what school is like in other parts of the world, many schools in America are soul-crushers, at least for some of us.

Nothing new

[vigmeister]

Cyberbullying has been the norm in usenet ngs for the longest time. It's time the 'poor little college kid' on facebook got hazed as well...
  Cheers!

Re:Nothing new

[trolltalk.com]

"Cyberbullying has been the norm in usenet ngs for the longest time. It's time the 'poor little college kid' on facebook got hazed as well..."

A lot of the people on Facebook are younger than college, and Facebook is indexed by the major search engines. Regardless of age, once a rumor gets out there, there's no way to "fix it." At least in print media, they're supposed to print a retraction (which they usually bury on page 19) ... but if it will make you feel any better, why not post your slashdot login info, and we'll all help you get your cyber-bitch-slap freak on.

Seriously, saying its okay is like saying that everyone should cut people off in traffic because road rage has been going on for years ...

Of course, if you're sending someone sms messages to bug them, you're already a candidate for the special olympics.

Re:Nothing new

[westlake]

Cyberbullying has been the norm in usenet ngs for the longest time.

which is why Usenet dies and more protected environments thrive.

Re:Nothing new

[vigmeister]

Voluntary exposure of intimate details is not very smart if you are worried about certain pictures/facts leaking. Rumors are just that and if they affect you in any way, you can always sue. The legal system kicks in when it gets serious, but before that, it is just a friendly reminder of the ways of the internet. What would you rather have? Some kid getting 'aggressive emails' or regulation of expression on the internet?

If it is serious, go to the authorities. If it is not, don't whine.

Cheers!

Re:Nothing new

[vigmeister]

Protected environment is where it is HARD for someone to bully you. A regulated environment is where it is illegal to say something that could be construed as bullying you. I do not mind the former. The latter is scary.
Cheers!

Re:Nothing new

[vux984]

Cyberbullying has been the norm in usenet ngs for the longest time. It's time the 'poor little college kid' on facebook got hazed as well...

usenet ngs had near zero penetration of the average class room. Really if some 12 year old posted I was a 'retarded dickless faggot' on usenet, who would even see it? Who would even care? He might as well have just written it on a post-it note and stuck it to his bed frame for all it mattered.

But now, the internet is mainstream, highly indexed, and if someone in your class posts your a 'retarded dickless faggot' on myspace or whatever, everyone sees it. He may as well have written it on the blackboard in class, in indelible ink.

Its a huge difference in visibility and impact.

Re:Nothing new

[trolltalk.com]

Unfortunately, nasty rumors can have serious consequences - like lost credibility, lost jobs, etc. Don't forget that we live in a society where many people can't qualify for jury duty because they have a bias to believe anything nasty - they figure that "if someone is arrested, they must be guilty of SOMETHING!"

Its the whole "where there's smoke, there MUST be fire" problem. There are people who can and will be assholes when they think they can get away with it, to make up for their own inadequacies. I prefer a "name it and shame it" approach to the less serious bullying, but once it crosses certain boundaries, sanctions should be imposed. Being forced to help clean up spam by training spam filters would be a good start.

Re:Nothing new

[Vancorps]

That should be the lawsuit material then. If you can demonstrate a loss of credibility or lose a job over this stuff then you have a case for a lawsuit. If there is demonstrable harm done whether physical or otherwise then there is recourse in a lawsuit. Sounds reasonable to me. That said, how many people are cyberbullied once they are out of high school?

Re:Nothing new

[westlake]

A regulated environment is where it is illegal to say something that could be construed as bullying you. I do not mind the former. The latter is scary.

Of course it is scary. It is meant to be scary. For precisely the same reason the same reason that laws against defamation, harassment, in any setting, are meant to be scary.

Riiight...

[morari]

Maybe these kids need some real bullying to toughen them up if some juvenile words on der intraweb makes them and their parents cry.

Re:Riiight...

[giorgiofr]

Yeah really... being the victim of "aggressive emails" warrants a tailor-made law now? Are they crazy or what? Oh right. Elections are coming... must be seen doing something!

The World's Biggest Bully:

[Anonymous Coward]

, who defies the legislative and judicial branches of the U.S. Federal Government, lives at
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Revenge of the nerds!

[scenestar]

Sure, jocks may be bigger and stronger.

But little do they know that those whimpy geeks can use their hack-foo to expose his dirty secrets online.

Re:Revenge of the nerds!

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, when I was in HS, my friends and I "hacked" (see: installed key loggers) access to the grading programs. We were all good enough pupils we didn't mess with our own marks, but if someone had been really pissing us off, we'd go in and mark them absent for the last two weeks or so. Their marks looked fine until the end of the semester, when the excessive absences would push them down a level or two.

Re:Revenge of the nerds!

[Anonymous Coward]

And are also smart enough to choose not to.

Re:Revenge of the nerds!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a former jock, turned computer science nut...

(I.E./E.G.-> I played for the United States NCAA Division II National Champions LeMoyne Dolphins in the sport of Lacrosse, lettering 2x @ 2 diff. positions in my time there, scoring 11 times). ... & I had to very, VERY recently deal with someone(s) doing it to me, & I took YEARS of crap from they... examples are below:

(It was a Mr. Jeremy Reimer (whose 'articles' are featured here from arstechnica no less) & his pal, Mr. Jay Little, (& a 3rd person posts here @ slashdot, & has stopped bugging me, so he will remain nameless)!

They were trying to pull what you said, with his friends (colleagues in crime actually):

I was their "11th Commandment": THOU SHALT NOT GET AWAY WITH IT.

Here was how it was done, & why - Each was found guilty of one or more of the following, over years time, for the following:

1.) Email harassing myself, & their ISP/BSP's took care of them

2.) Having their websites removed from their hosting providers 2-3x & kept it up no less (unbelievable, some people NEVER learn) even after that

3.) Each (that tried to stay on topic, instead of starting trouble, Jay Little & the unnamed fellow) lost BADLY on technical points about computers several times (BSOD stopcodes, ramdisk usages, & memory related debates & more)

4.) Cyberstalking me to many sites for many years, libelling myself (making edited photos of myself, singing libellous songs about myself, & more))...

Recently, I had Mr. Reimer reported to the police for Aggravated Harassment (& the police filed the report & are forwarding it to his nation in Canada, so the RCMP (royal canadian mounted police) take care of the rest)... for good reasons - threats to my family & yes, myself, were issued by Mr. Reimer & his pals.

Mr. Reimer & Mr. Little only brought it on themselves, each time, because I never ONCE went to they to their websites bothering they (I was @ arstechnica in 2000/2001, but left there AND NEVER WENT BACK, as I generally do not stay where I am not wanted)...

However, Mr. Reimer impersonated or edited my posts on arstechnica (or one of his mod friends did) & Mr. Reimer impersonated ME on his website, & that caused me to write him nicely mind you, to remove it... He would not, & the cyberstalking ensued (they doing it to myself across many sites online for years).

Today, this date?

An "APK MUST BE PUT TO DEATH" petition was removed by petitiononline.com (Mr. Little) & Mr. Reimer got a nice note from his hosting provider siteground.com, to remove all content that was libelling myself on his website.

The Aggravated Harassment went thru with the police as well, & next, it's a libel & defamation of character lawsuit coming their way... ... & after that? I am going after arstechnica.com for the same thing...

(&? I'll win... I've beaten city governments in lawsuits, & this is easy by way of comparison)...

APK

P.S.=> I guess what I am trying to say here, is this:

I can deal with a lot of childish stupidity, but when Mr. Reimer grew so bold as to post my families' home address on his website, & his friends started saying things like "Let me know where he is I will take care of him" etc. et al?

That crossed my line of acceptability/threshold of pain, & they had to be dealt with...

Best part is, from this whole confrontation??

I got the arstechnicans to say I was correct on a number of points I made, & to get their websites removed or parts removed as I saw fit...

Making them "bend the knee", but it's not over yet - people that think they are bigger than the law? ARE IN FOR A HUGE MISTAKE...

I only hope this (where this all happened & went on for 4 years running almost):

Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Spazntwich]

Yes it's an argument from ignorance, mostly because the people who are so concerned about "cyberbullying" (dumb term imo) have yet to make any rational arguments for why its so bad that I can attempt to refute. All you ever hear about are how badly emotionally scarred people are getting from email and IMs that say mean things about them. It seems like a bunch of panicky fluff designed to garner sympathy so people can push through legislation that criminalizes being mean.

Sure, stalking and death threats ARE bad, but last time I checked there were already laws in place to deal with those. If you ask me, this is just the next front for the politically correct clownshoes to work in their feel good laws that accomplish nothing and ultimately end up turning your average jackass into a criminal, you know, "for the greater good."

Everyone needs thicker skin, as the whole uproar about this is more a symptom of our continued pussification than any problem endemic to the internet.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[GeckoX]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you...unless you choose to let them.

Yet again, falls down to good parenting, and has absolutely nothing to do with the internet itself, other than being yet another medium that some parents choose to use to babysit and teach their children.

When _I_ was a child, the bullies used sticks and stones more oft than not. Count yourselves lucky chillins.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Scrameustache]

Sure, stalking and death threats ARE bad, but last time I checked there were already laws in place to deal with those.
[...]
Everyone needs thicker skin, as the whole uproar about this is more a symptom of our continued pussification You have no insight, you only offer ignorance and dismissal.
People who go to the police to get the law enforced are often met with "just tough it out".
Cops can't be bothered, unless there's a "real" crime that's been committed, they'll wait until the stalker actually causes physical harm before they act. And then it's too late.

Why don't you apply your "thicker skin" logic to all crimes? Someone stabbed you? You should have fought back harder, pussy! Gang beats you up? You should have more friends, with bigger muscles, pussy!

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Das Modell]

Yes it's an argument from ignorance, mostly because the people who are so concerned about "cyberbullying" (dumb term imo) have yet to make any rational arguments for why its so bad that I can attempt to refute.

Probably because you're so fucking stupid that you couldn't identify a rational argument even if it kicked you in the face.

Everyone needs thicker skin, as the whole uproar about this is more a symptom of our continued pussification than any problem endemic to the internet.

Bullying can and often does lead to a lifetime of psychological problems, or even suicide. But hey, who the fuck cares? People just need to grow thicker skin! Instead of doing something about bullies, we should just tell people to have less psychological problems. What an ingenious solution.

I can't believe this shit got modded +4.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[moeinvt]

If it's just people calling each other names online from long distances, you're right, what's the big deal? I'd suggest that it gets "BAD" when we're talking about KIDS, and when the "cyber bullying" is combined with ritualistic verbal and physical abuse. Check out this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Patrick_Halligan

There may be "laws" in place to deal with "death threats", but I think that bullying is a serious problem that has been largely ignored in the nation's schools. Would you suggest that a 11-year old is a "pussy" and needs to grow some "thick skin" because a bunch of much older kids decide to bully him/her systematically over months or years? In a case like that, the cyber aspect of it is just "piling on" to an existing problem, and it could be the thing that pushes someone over the edge.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you...unless you choose to let them.

In the real world, words can inflict serious economic harm. Careers are derailed through rumor-mongering all the time.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Spazntwich]

That might have been the most ironic reply anyone has ever attached to a post of mine.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[fredNonesuch]

Read the wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying/ for some answers as to why this is a big deal. The "cyber" part is a tool that offers a great deal of leverage with the ability to automate bullying and propagate media that has far more emotional impact than words alone.

Spreading rumors with freely available picture editing software is especially pernicious. On top of that, there's the automation - making the spreading of the material so much more effective. Instead of just a handful of people personally contacted, an audience of hundreds on up end up seeing it. That also heavily increases the emotional impact.

Consider a similar scenario -collateral damage due to spamming. Some of you have seen your outgoing emails banned because of spammers falsely using your address or even simply using the same ISP. The same sort of knee-jerk reactions happen as a result of cyber-bullying.

Finally, there are a lot of ADULT idiots out there that act based solely on unconfirmed information. Lynchings in the US still happen - just more often in court and in job losses. The impact can be in the form of real losses, not just emotional hurt. Now imagine how kids can respond.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[zCyl]

It also includes targeted denial of service attacks. Kids decide they don't like someone at school, and then they go out on the internet and get a few dozen people to "attack" this person by smearing graffiti all over blog or myspace pages, spamming thousands of emails to a person's email account, flooding a person's IM account with hundreds of pop-up messages rendering the account unusable, and getting a bunch of people to repeatedly call a person's cell phone. Often this is done with the intention of making someone's accounts unusable, and sometimes such things are done with the intent of causing a person excessive financial expense (which the young usually do not have to spare).

This can also include significant violations of privacy which could easily lead to later occupational damage. Imagine you're 16 or so, and someone takes a few unflattering photos of you with the pervasive cameras that are now carried into schools on cell phones, and then uses these to create a thread or web page entirely about you which perhaps pretends to be written by you and contains lies about you and the things you like to do to sheep. Now what if this is the first google hit for your name a few years later when you try to get a job?

Yes, there are laws in most countries on the internet to handle such things, but there are countless places where enforcement is minimal to non-existant. Being mean is one thing, but targeted harassment is a completely different thing. When it starts affecting people's finances, lives, and careers, it'd be hard to argue that it doesn't matter or that people should just grow thicker skin.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Das Modell]

I'll interpret that as "I have no idea how to respond, but I have to say something."

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[SatanicPuppy]

Amusing. I think he was referring to the fact that you dumped a metric assload of bile and scorn on him because you didn't like his opinion about cyberbullying.

One of you needs a thicker skin, but I'm not sure which one.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Dancindan84]

Sounds like someone needs a hug.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do the laws need to be changed because some emotionally unstable kid kills himself?

BFD, the rest of society shouldn't have to change to accommodate the corner case like this.

Human beings kill themselves, for a variety of reasons. What that article demonstrates is nothing more than normal adolescent social interaction. That this kid couldn't handle it is not a problem for the rest of us, but it was obviously a problem for him.

What would a law against "cyberbullying" have changed? All it does is make our society more and more one of legal conflict, impersonalism, and shielding from others. None of these are positive for a healthy civic society and it is corrosive.

We are human beings living in a society, not individuals who occasionally have to interact. The sooner we start acting like this and accepting this aspect of our human condition the better.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[niktemadur]

What is the origin of bullying in a young, growing human being? I can think of four reasons:

1. Parental lack of confrontation (as in fearful parents creating no boundaries for the child - anything goes).
2. Parental neglect (again, no boundaries for the child, but there's abandonment issues here).
3. Parental or fraternal abuse.
4. Schoolyard or neighborhood abuse of third parties by victims of the first three.

Please notice how 2, 3 and 4 are expressions of redirected anger. Also notice how 1, 2 and 3 come from the home.

Oh, as for the title of this sub-thread, Why the hell is this such a big deal?: Ever notice just how fucked-up this world is? From what environment did these adults who fuck up the world come? It's a self-perpetuating problem of devastating proportions, which will only get worse before it gets better, if at all.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Das Modell]

An anonymous person calling another anonymous person names on Slashdot hardly qualifies as cyberbullying. Perhaps the real irony here is that he first dismisses cyberbullying as nonsense and demands people to grow a thicker skin, but then thinks that he's being targeted for cyberbullying because somebody tells him he's a fucking moron.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Das Modell]

The fact that I got modded troll and he got modded +4 pretty clearly illustrates what Slashdot thinks about bullying. Fucking pathetic.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[moeinvt]

"Human beings kill themselves, for a variety of reasons. What that article demonstrates is nothing more than normal adolescent social interaction. That this kid couldn't handle it is not a problem for the rest of us, but it was obviously a problem for him."

I'm not calling for laws to address cyber-bullying, just pointing out why it could be seen as a problem. What I'd really like to see is a more comprehensive effort to address bullying in general.

I respect your opinion, but what happens when one of these corner cases decides to kill himself and take his tormentors along with him? Next time there is Columbine type incident, you know that certain people are going to start with the typical BS, demanding gun control and blaming video games and heavy metal music. When that happens, I expect you to be in the forefront, describing how the kids were simply corner cases that couldn't handle "normal adolescent social interaction", and that the rest of society doesn't need to change any laws or regulations in response. Deal?

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[SatanicPuppy]

Actually, I'd say it is. If you don't like someone's opinion and start dumping abuse and profanity on them, that's definitely a form of attempted intimidation. Doesn't matter if you know his actual name, especially in an online forum with persistent history.

And all he said was it was ironic, which it is.

Re:Why the hell is this such a big deal?

[Das Modell]

This does not qualify as cyberbullying or "intimidation." Don't be a drama queen.

RAGED

[Anonymous Coward]

RAGED!

ANother step

[geekoid]

Eventually, nobody will believe anything about anybody on the interwebtubetruck

Then it will hole no emotional effect on the people of that generation.

Re:ANother step

[Hijacked Public]

No way, I don't buy that argument.

It's everywhere

[Starteck81]

You could make a study of cyberbulling on /. alone.

Re:It's everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to fuck you up you whiny, wimpy, little cocksucker....

SHUT UP (or else!)

[The_REAL_DZA]

You have been warned.

Apparently...

[ajenteks]

It would seem young people in the US are fully adapting to the anonymity of online interactions. ...a sizable number of young people aren't adapting enough. Bullies like easy targets, don't make yourself one. Problem solved.

Re:Apparently...

[SatanicPuppy]

All teenagers are easy targets, unfortunately, but dealing with the assholes is part of what being a teenager is about. Some people are cruel. Some people are cruel beyond bounds...It happened to me, it happened to a lot of people. Hopefully you learned something from it, and stood up for someone else.

Or maybe not. In the end, that's what you need: other people who care enough to stand up for you. Not the law, not the official authority figures; they don't matter really.

MOD ME UP!

[Timesprout]

Or I'll kick seven shades of crap out of every moderator in here!!!!

Re:MOD ME UP!

[FreakinSyco]

You really need to be careful how you talk about me on the forum, I don't appreciate it. Tone down the disrespect, I don't know where you're from but where I'm from, we don't tolerate that. Don't even reply to this, just keep your mouth shut. Consider yourself warned.

Re:MOD ME UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay okay! Take the point!
Just don't hurt me physically and/or emotionally! It'll scar me for life!

"If you continue to post this comment, all moderations done to this discussion will be undone! Are you sure you want to post?"
Never noticed that. Oh, well. No point for you!

Why do people think the Internet is different?

[TheWoozle]

We see this same tired series of events played out again and again... someone does something that is part of everyday life, but this time they do it "on the Internet", and the media play it up into this big thing. Because, you know, somehow if you do something "on the Internet" it's *different*.

Please, stop the madness.

Just because one or more computers communicating over the Internet is involved, it does not magically change the nature of what's going on. "Cyberbullying" is just like a bullshit marketing term: somebody made it up to make something old sound new.

If you can help a kid deal with school-yard bullies and the high-school rumor mill, they should be able to cope with this.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[OverlordsShadow]

Hell here they have anti-bullying bylaws. Kids can get fined and such for bullying kids. They are even passing one for bullying in the workplace and all of society in general. This is Regina, Sask, Canada by the way. I think its just retarted. I got bugged in school and some of the retards I went to school with are still smug but you get over it or do it right back to them. Screw their shit up and/or give them a beat down. Always loved cream the carrier, we all just picked the side we wanted to beat on and that way everyone got their frustration out on the others. Although this doesn't quite work if you site inside 24/7 have not muscles and still suck on mommy's tit.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[westlake]

Because, you know, somehow if you do something "on the Internet" it's *different*.

It's an interesting argument. But one the Geek uses selectively.

If harassment exposes you to civil and criminal penalties when your are off-line, why should your on-line conduct be immune from prosecution?

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[cayenne8]

"Always loved cream the carrier, we all just picked the side we wanted to beat on and that way everyone got their frustration out on the others."

Is that the Canadian version of "Kill the man with the ball"?

*Sigh* in the US, with them banning dodgeball, I'm guessing kill the man with the ball is pretty much something of history only.

When did we start pussyfying our kids? Can't play outside, the pervs will get you. Can't call Jenny a name, will get sued. Can't play physical contact sports, you'll REALLY get sued, and lose that all important "self-image".

You know...I don't think you can know what a winner is unless you know what it is like to lose. I'm afraid for so many of the sheltered great self image kids coming out today. They're gonna get into the real world, expecting to be treated right, and everyone cooperate, and get a raise (gold star for the day) just for trying.

They're gonna get their clocks cleaned by the ones out that that know it is a jungle and have to work and fight for what they want...by people out to win.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[TheWoozle]

I don't know that geeks make a selective argument about the nature of the Internet. Most of the intelligent discussions I've seen center around legitimate differences between the Internet and other arenas - and there are real, discernable differences. I don't think anybody's arguing that behavior "on the Internet" should enjoy special protection. But it may not be as simple as you suggest. Because the bullying is occuring over the Internet, civil and criminal penalties might not apply if the bully is is another country - one that doesn't recognize the bullying as violating and laws or being grounds for a civil suit.

As you can see, it's not merely the fact that something happens "on the Internet" that should be the basis for our debate on an issue. Would there be such an uproar if someone was making international prank calls on the POTS network?

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[cdrguru]

Because the Internet means immunity to lots of people.

Let's see what it would take to actually prosecute someone for "cyberbullying", shall we... The forum or IM server has a log with an IP address of where this came from. The can look up in about 10 seconds what ISP or other provider owns the IP address. The ISP has logs (for dynamic addresses) and customer records. The account holder (with the ISP) has an agreement that pretty much says whatever is going through that connection they are responsible for. End of story.

Except it doesn't work that way. The forum operator decides it would be better for anonymous users if they didn't keep logs. The ISP that owns the IP address decides to protect their customers regardless of the legal and social implications. The account holder agreement does say they are responsible but only up to a point - after all, it could have been anyone in the family or even a friend or neighbor. Layers and layers of people are protecting illegal acts on the Internet.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[westlake]

Layers and layers of people are protecting illegal acts on the Internet.

and layer by layer that protection is being stripped away.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[Fred Ferrigno]

I would say it is fundamentally different than "offline" bullying, in that it's actually less serious since there's no credible threat of violence.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[knutkracker]

Depends on whether you count ruining someone's emotional and social existence as 'violence'. Judging by the number of suicides by bullied schoolkids, I'd say you have to.

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[Valdez]

Just because one or more computers communicating over the Internet is involved, it does not magically change the nature of what's going on. Quick, somebody notify the patent office!

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[Abcd1234]

When did we start pussyfying our kids?

Yeah, umm... there is a *massive* difference between "pussyfying" our kids, and tolerating abuse. If we don't accept abuse between adults, why the fuck should we accept it between our children??

Re:Why do people think the Internet is different?

[Fred Ferrigno]

Someone can be harassed enough to kill themselves offline, too. But they still can't be physically attacked online.

actually...

[cosmocain]

..where's ist this news?

more and more folks go online. more and more folks use the internet to meet friends. and make friends. even make enemies, what a surprise.

as more things get done online, the negative sides of human interactions tend not to let anybody wait, after all it's humans doing human things. duh! in other news: in the early 1900 the number of carcrashes increased surprisingly...

Why in my day...

[Peter Trepan]

We used to be physically bullied. I would gladly have accepted a MySpace page full of personal attacks in place of a schoolyard full of actual ones.

Re:Why in my day...

[westlake]

We used to be physically bullied. I would gladly have accepted a MySpace page full of personal attacks in place of a schoolyard full of actual ones.

It remains a corrosive experience, all the more so because the assault is anonymous.

Re:Why in my day...

[darkmeridian]

Tell that to the Dancing Jedi Knight Boy.

Re:Why in my day...

[magus_melchior]

So you're saying the "bullies" described in the article aren't bullies at all?

Suppose you didn't have a thick skin from all them beatings?

Re:Why in my day...

[R2.0]

Sure about that? Cause the black eye I got in grade school went away in a couple of weeks. If instead I had been labeled as homosexual on the Web, replete with photoshopped pictures and "testimonials" from others, I might still be living with the consequences.

And to head off the PC "Being gay isn't wrong" responses, Catholic school in the 70's was NOT the place to be labelled a fag, true sexual orientation notwithstanding.

And to head off the other side of teh house, no, I do not think new laws need to be made. We just need to apply the old ones in an aggressive manner. Bullying shouldn't be tolerated, period. It is assault and/or battery, or stalking and harrassment. Just because it's kids doesn't mean it isn't wrong AND illegal.

Re:Why in my day...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would gladly have accepted a MySpace page full of personal attacks in place of a schoolyard full of actual ones.

I wouldn't. It's way too easy to smear someone over the Internet in a way that causes them problems for the rest of their life. Practically, every place of employment does Internet searches on potential employees and if too many negative things are directly attributable to you, regardless if they're true or not, you're not getting the job. If you're reasonably smart, it's easy to game the search engines and have the first dozen or so pages of search results for a particular persons name or email address return terribly misleading information

I'm not saying that we need new laws to police this (I didn't bother reading the article), I'm just making the point that it's not exactly as clear cut as you make it out to be in terms of which one is easier to get over.

Re:Why in my day...

[lordSaurontheGreat]

"A coward dies a thousand times before his death; \
The valiant ne'er taste of death but once."
-- Shakespeare through the mouth of Caesar, The Tragedy of Julius Caesar

Re:Why in my day...

[bky1701]

So you are seriously telling me you'd rather be physically assaulted than anonymously insulted? You need a reality check.

Re:Why in my day...

[westlake]

So you are seriously telling me you'd rather be physically assaulted than anonymously insulted? You need a reality check.

Bullying is not insults. Bullying is harassment. Bullying is the systematic degradation of the victim. Bullying is fear and shame and terror. Bullying is the anonymous phone call at 3 AM.

Re:Why in my day...

[bky1701]

Bullying is not insults. Bullying is harassment. Bullying is the systematic degradation of the victim. Bullying is fear and shame and terror. Bullying is the anonymous phone call at 3 AM.

You'd take that over physical assault? Daily? You ever been physically assaulted, daily? It's worth saying phone calls have nothing to do with the internet, ether...

Re:Why in my day...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, that didn't make much sense. I need to not post late at night....

Re:Why in my day...

[Abcd1234]

Did he say that? No. He said it's still corrosive, and he's right. Just because physical abuse is arguably worse, doesn't make mental and emotional abuse OK.

The Pussification of Humanity

[Anonymous Coward]

Tactics cited include being 'the victim of an aggressive email, IM or text message'

I'll kick your ass!

There, now everybody reading this thread can say that they've been cyber-bullied at least once in their life. No doubt you'll all need years of therapy to recover from such a horrifying ordeal.

How low does your self esteem go?

[Ub3rT3Rr0R1St]

I ask myself...To be the victim of a cyberbully: Does that even constitute as being victimized? Who in their right mind would even consider that as a cause for any reaction whatsoever, other than a hearty laugh at the expense of the loser who thinks picking on people over the internet puts him up on some sort of proverbial pedestal?

Now, don't get me wrong, I know there are very extreme cases where these issues can turn into cyberstalking, in which a person's actual, physical being is in jeopardy from actual, physical harm, but a few nasty e-mails, or a few comments in your myspace box? Come on! How much of a low self esteem do you have to let such anonymous and distant remarks get to you on some level?

Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you. Does that saying have any more meaning?! Doesn't anyone apply it anymore? Hell, if words can't hurt you, I doubt text can do any more. Atleast when someone is spewing insults at your face, you might feel inclined to cry or whatnot, but text? You don't even have to read it if you don't want to. People can be blocked from contacting you through many mediums. People can be banned.

This is just another way of showing us how we've declined as emotional entities. To show us just how damn sensitive people are when they're being taunted from someone they probably don't even know, and will probably NEVER meet. Those people need help. A lot of help.

Re:How low does your self esteem go?

[Anonymous Coward]

but words can never hurt you. Does that saying have any more meaning?!

What about the girl who had her cellphone stolen, only to have the thief take pictures of the thief's (underaged) crotch and messaged it to everyone on the girl's phonebook? Totally not damaging, right? The examples in the article are tame compared to the crap that goes on out there in the real world, but I wonder if you're not up there with the principals and teachers who can't even comprehend the worst that children can do, and therefore just ignore the kids who complain about getting assaulted in bathrooms by older students, just brushing it off with "boys will be boys".

Aside from that, it's just the people becoming "pussies", it's the employers who are looking harder and harder for any excuse to fire anyone for any reason. You have to be on your guard 24x7 because you might end up having a life, and having a life includes things that might be embarrassing or unwise like going to a party in a public space where someone might take your picture. Consider the "Drunken Pirate" case from a week or two ago. Someone else takes a picture, adds the caption "drunken pirate" and posts it on the internet. I guess words never hurt the teacher who lost her job.

Re:How low does your self esteem go?

[Ub3rT3Rr0R1St]

You pose an interesting point, but I must, pardoning the phonetic redundancy, point out, that the cases you just mentioned don't really involve verbal abuse, it would seem.

These cases are in fact harsher of course due to a more tactful representation of an act of cyberbullyism. Still, I must argue that in relation to the second case regarding the Drunken Pirate: If the teacher hadn't been fired for it, and their bosses would have had a bit more of an open mind in the dealings, would the teacher really have been affected by this? Let's face it. We all drink, we all party, we all might make asses of ourselves at some point. Would this have really been such a big case of cyberbullying if the teacher hadn't been fired? The answer is 'No'.

It's sad that the outcome of a genuinely harmless picture would be so severe, but that is nobody's fault but of the higher-ups who decided that being a normal, fun-loving human being is wrong on some level.

In the first case, well, I think that can be pretty much cleared up through proper communication. All you really have to do is call people up, or send a few messages simply saying: "This jackass stole my phone and did this crap, please ignore it". Honestly, would that be a difficult thing to do?

Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Short Circuit]

I learned how to ignore bullies back in high school. But that's in meatspace, where everything is ephemeral. In online forums, comments and rumors about me are all but permanent, and available for any potential employer (or private investigator) to see.

I wonder if/when libel laws will be applied to moronic posts made to Myspace, Facebook and the plethora of phpBB boards out there.

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[MXPS]

if some one cries over a vicious myspace message or an im, they need serious help and probably should be dealing with the serious issues before they worry about cyber-bullying. what happened to taking a kids lunch money on the playground, man those were the days...

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, we'd love to hire you Mr. Circuit, but it says here on "CoolMan"'s blog that you're a fairy and you wet your pants. I'm afraid we don't want any pants wetters in our company, so we can't hire you. Good luck on your job search, though.

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Short Circuit]

"Private" communications like that aren't what I would worry about. Instead, I'd be worried about anything covered under a public (or even members-only) search index.

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Anonymous Coward]

Short Circuit is a homo.

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Short Circuit]

Short Circuit is a homo. This stuff is making me laugh. :-D

Yesterday, I was walking out of a Walgreens, and some guy shouts from a car in the parking lot, "Hey! That guy's a fairy!" (I have long hair...I guess that led to his assumption.)

I snickered loud enough for him to hear, shook my head, got in my car, and left. The guy was an idiot...what else could I do? :-)

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Anonymous Coward]

I find the most obvious solution is to just not have any Myspace, Facebook, etc. accounts. If you need to keep in contact with your friends, send an email, an IM, or just call the person. If you give no room for "bullies" to affect your life, then you have no problems.

Re:Normally, I wouldn't care.

[Firefly1]

In online forums, comments and rumors about me are all but permanent, and available for any potential employer (or private investigator) to see.

The other half of the problem would be those people who assume said comments and rumors to be truth. That, in turn, leads me to ask 'why would they make such an assumption?'

Re:MOD HIM DOWN!

[the dark hero]

That'll teach him!

All things considered...

[Nom du Keyboard]

All things considered, I'd rather have a nasty text message or two...
than a punch in the face!

this is new how?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only real difference I can see between "cyberbullying" and traditional childish behavior is that now we can have a persistent record of how much of a jerk your precious little child can be when you aren't looking.

I was sort of a victim of this;

[Doddman]

http://stealthfries.blogspot.com/ to see what I did

Re:I was sort of a victim of this;

[Ub3rT3Rr0R1St]

Not to offend, but man, it's painfully obvious that he's very very young. Anyone in their right mind would've told you to buzz off, and block you. ;p You just came off as a "cyberbully" there, along with your friend. XD Again, I mean no disrespect.

Re:I was sort of a victim of this;

[Anonymous Coward]

http://stealthfries.blogspot.com/ to see what I did In response: RETARDED! Nya nya nya nya, kay eye ess ess eye in gee

Re:I was sort of a victim of this;

[Anonymous Coward]

(9:19:54 PM) BurnThePriest91: wait were u the one who talked s**t about slipknot
(9:19:57 PM) an obtuse axiom: yeah

From the above, I am assuming you are "an abtuse axiom" in this conversation. I read through to about 9:22. I have to say you really do come off bad in that. I can't imagine what else may have transpired in the conversation as it appears to go on forever. He says he made a mistake...

(9:20:06 PM) an obtuse axiom: why would you threaten me?
(9:20:11 PM) an obtuse axiom: I still don't understand that
(9:20:13 PM) BurnThePriest91: ya that was a mistake

You kept on him and it does seem like you are bullying him.

(9:21:52 PM) BurnThePriest91: u were not meant to be threatened
(9:22:02 PM) an obtuse axiom: it's probably the last thing you';ll be seeing on the internet for a very long time
(9:22:23 PM) BurnThePriest91: that was meant to be to my friend from my new utube account

You should have just let it go there. You kept on this and started talking about reporting him to the FBI. You should have shown some respect and dropped it. If he had done more to you at other times, then that could be considered bullying, but he apologized and gave an explanation. Regardless if it was a truthful explanation, you should have left him alone after that.

We need a war

[athloi]

This is ridiculous. People are becoming such neurotic queens (no relation to sexual orientation, thx) that they can't be offended, are afraid of conflict, and won't stick their necks out because someone might disagree. As a result, we can't make decisions, and we get weak.

"Saigon, shit. I'm still only in Saigon. Every time I think I'm going to wake up back in the jungle. When I was home after my first tour, it was worse. I'd wake up and there'd be nothing... I hardly said a word to my wife until I said yes to a divorce. When I was here I wanted to be there. When I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle. I've been here a week now. Waiting for a mission, getting softer. Every minute I stay in this room I get weaker. And every minute Charlie squats in the bush he gets stronger."

Transcript

Re:We need a war

[doombringerltx]

We need a war besides the one we already have?

Re:We need a war

[HolyCrapSCOsux]

Yes. Not some war in a distant place, but right here. In our cities, disrupting our lives, truly threatening our freedoms. Let people wonder if they can get food today rather than whether or not someone at school posted a photoshopped picture of them pleasuring someone, called them a fag, or any other useless inanities.

I agree we need a war.

Re:We need a war

[Anonymous Coward]

Such Internet Bravery (tm) brings a patriotic tear to my eye. It's not overreacting to trivialities that is an indication of a weak, sheltered culture; but rather the propagated belief that war on one's home soil will somehow improve our spiritual fabric. When you're on your knees in your front yard, watching as a platoon gang rapes your mother or sister, how great and noble do you think war will appear then?

This pseudo-hardass, Nietzschian masturbatory fantasy of yours is a fine indication that you're in need of a serious fucking reality check. Try enlisting, our American Fascists are always in need of noble artillery fodder such as yourself.

Re:We need a war

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a war? Just buy a ticket to one of these nice places. A one way ticket, of course.

Tailor-made law?

[benhocking]

I missed the reference to any law. Which article was that in?

That's it ...

[kryten_nl]

That's it, the final straw. We have to shut down the internet RIGHT NOW. Won't someone please think of the children?!?

The difference

[Dusty00]

It really seems absurd to me to separate bullying out into different categories based on the medium through which it takes place. Spreading rumors, someone repeating what you'd told them in confidence to humiliate them, it's all been around probably since the beginning of time. The secret to doing it is that you can't get caught. Do whatever you want just don't let the teacher see you do it. The difference with Cyberbullying is that it's being hid through anonymity rather than stealth. It's for a teacher to ignore a he-said-she-said not having seen it happen, but if it takes place on the net, there's on denying that it took place, you just might not know who did it. I for one am glad it's getting some attention. I just hope those addressing the issue will realize the problem does not lie in the internet. Just my two bits...

anonymity and its dangers

[interglossa]

I and a couple of other people at my site regularly get odd IM messages from a co-worker here at Harvard who we know as very gifted but mentally unstable. The details are quite disturbing but I am not inclined to share them publicly. I absolutely put this in a different folder from cyberbullying among young people. It has more to do with the aberrant behavior rampant among the gifted.

pseudo-sociotechnical words

[SuperBanana]

In other news, pseudo-sociotechnical words (PSTW) are gaining momentum.

I get misty...

[catdevnull]

[RANT MODE ON]

Kids these days are such pussies.

I get a little misty when I recall the times when getting my ass kicked at school for being a dork was just a way of life. It didn't kill me but it made me stronger. I can't imagine being intimidated by some other dork's IM, e-mail, or MySpace post.

I miss the days before we had to have cops patrolling the hallways as if the kids were in prison. I miss the days when kids just got into a little fight and that was that. Now, parents sue each other or even go to jail.

Sure, we could blame it on violence on TV or video games but they are a reflection of our culture--art immitating life. No kids even dreamed of pulling off a school bombing/shooting like Columbine in the 70s or 80s.

What's happened over the last 25-30 years? Maybe kids just need attention because their parents are addicted to the internet, drugs, work, TV, porn, or themselves? Or maybe they just need to get their ass whipped now and then in small doses (vice mass murder)? Maybe we should just pay more attention to them?

Seriously though--cyberbullying? puh-leez!

We keep putting up all these little rules to keep terrorists from blowing us up; or to keep kids from shooting up their schools; or to keep other bad random things from happening again. How about we look at the root cause for all the violence? I suppose the government (local, state, or federal) will magnanamously step in and declare cyberbullying a terroristic threat but that won't deal with the real issue: people in this country, including our kids, feel angry, frustrated, and violent about something.

When I was a kid, we felt scared all the time because of the Cold War--the Russians were going to bomb us any damn day. Today, we live in constant fear of everything--getting blown up by terrorist, shot by a crack head car jacker, mowed down by a drunk driver, run off the road by a road-raged commuter, crazy-ass snipers firing from the trunk of the car, drive-by shootings, attacked by stalkers, etc., etc., etc....

Now we have to fear intimitading electronic communications? Seriously--WTF?

I am at a total loss for what is wrong with us--as a society. Maybe we need to legalize marijuana--at least for a couple of weeks, and get everyone to just chill the f**k out and quit preying upon each other? I've never smoked but my friends who do/have are the least likely people to do ANYTHING much less commit an act of violence--unless you consider fighting over a bag of Cheetos "violent."

OK, maybe declaring a national Green Day (redefining "Green Peace") isn't a solution, but our whole country is edgy and willing to kill. Something is wrong.

Cyberbullying is the LEAST of our freaking problems.

[/RANT MODE OFF]

Re:I get misty...

[HolyCrapSCOsux]

Too bad I used up my mod points earlier! (+1 righteous Indignation)

Re:I get misty...

[catdevnull]

Thanks?

That's funny. :-D

Re:I get misty...

[Lehk228]

just ask kieth, the creator of subeta.org.

then again that was more internet terrorism than it was cyber bullying

Re:I get misty...

[Guppy06]

"It didn't kill me but it made me stronger."

Since when did "increased physical pain tolerance" equate with "stronger?"

"I can't imagine being intimidated by some other dork's IM, e-mail, or MySpace post."

Simple: after your daily beating, stills and movies of your beating taken from cell phones ends up in said medium. Think of it as a pleasant little reminder while enabling exponentially more people to laugh at the way you start to cry.

"I miss the days before we had to have cops patrolling the hallways as if the kids were in prison."

Let's see: you're told what room to be in at what time, sometimes even what to where while there, and if the police spot you elsewhere when you're supposed to be present, legal problems ensue. When has it not been a prison?

"I miss the days when kids just got into a little fight and that was that. Now, parents sue each other or even go to jail."

People going to prison for assault and battery? Perish the thought!

"What's happened over the last 25-30 years? Maybe kids just need attention because their parents are addicted to the internet, drugs, work, TV, porn, or themselves?"

Or maybe, just maybe, they got sick of this "builds character/makes you stronger/kids being kids" bullshit and decided to employ the Great Equalizer instead of bending over and taking it like you did (while telling yourself that it was actually a good thing to do so)?

Or are you just jealous that you didn't have the spine and foresight they had to end things once and for all?

"How about we look at the root cause for all the violence?"

Checked the mirror lately?

Re:I get misty...

[sardaukar_siet]

Man, I salute you. You're part of the solution...

Re:I get misty...

[catdevnull]

Points taken--but I think you have some anger issues. I can see that my comments hit a nerve about your own experience.

The real issue is parents can't keep up with their kids and/or don't know how to deal with them. The cyberbulling bullshit would not be a problem if kids any any sort of guidance for how to be decent human beings. THAT is really what I was trying to say in my rant. No one bothers to be polite or courteous vis-a-vis and, on the web, they're just plain rude. It's like "Web Rage" where people take out their frustrations on complete strangers with little regard for someone else's feelings or status as a human being.

Everyone is angry and has no qualms about putting someone else down if they have a different opinion. They are quick to insult, quick to judge, and quick to dismiss rather than engaging in polite discourse to explore how someone else thinks.

Oh, wait...I forgot I'm on slashdot.

Re:I get misty...

[Abcd1234]

Points taken--but I think you have some anger issues. I can see that my comments hit a nerve about your own experience.

Or maybe he's rightly outraged that you're trying to justify violence between fucking *children*, for christ sake. An adult beats the fuck out of a kid, he goes to jail. A kid beats the fuck out of another kid... and apparently that's fine? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Re:I get misty...

[catdevnull]

Hold on...read the following carefully and ignore what I might have typed eariler. I'm removing the sarcastic/ironic hyperbole about beatings:

I'm not saying that giving or taking a beating is right--I'm saying that it is WAY different than it used to be. Kids used to get in little scuffles but now they go medieval on each other--perhaps I didn't make that very clear. I miss the days when a bully just was a bully. These days, bullies are homicidal maniacs.

The bullying I received and witnessed as a kid was about as violent as a "kill the man" game of football where you got some bumps or bruises or a black eye just tackling each other. These days, kids get the living shit beat out of them--hospitalized or even scarred for life (if you're lucky enough to survive).

My point is this: what changed? Why is it so much more violent? Cyberbullying is not the problem--people who have no idea how to behave are the problem.

I think maybe you guys took my comments about the "old school" way of getting beat up too literally--it was hyperbole. I was trying to illustrate the extreme escalation of violent behavior in our society--especially amongst children.

If the people of the US think it is "normal" that our public schools have metal detectors and armed guards, I think we're in real trouble. I cannot recall anyone being killed, stabbed, shot, or maimed by another student between my time in public schools between 1973 and 1986. I'm sure it happened somewhere but not in the 10 different systems I went through. It just didn't happen. If it did, it was shocking and people were outraged. Today, it's practically expected--or we wouldn't have the metal detectors, armed guards, and attack dogs for FUCKING CHILDREN. People aren't outraged anymore, they're scared.

Cyberbullying is NOT the problem--it's just another byproduct of the root problem we can't seem to fix or even identify. The guards, razor wire, and metal detectors haven't fixed the problem--it only acknowledged it.

Re:I get misty...

[Guppy06]

"Points taken--but I think you have some anger issues. I can see that my comments hit a nerve about your own experience."

"Anger issues?" Oh no, I've been made stronger. My character has been built.

"The real issue is parents can't keep up with their kids and/or don't know how to deal with them."

Because the obvious solution to dealing with kids is a laissez-faire approach to violence just so long as it's not lethal?

"THAT is really what I was trying to say in my rant."

Seemed to me that you were pining away for the Good Ole Days of childhood fisticuffs.

Re:I get misty...

[Abcd1234]

Kids used to get in little scuffles but now they go medieval on each other--perhaps I didn't make that very clear. I miss the days when a bully just was a bully. These days, bullies are homicidal maniacs.

You might consider that you're just remembering things wrong. Youth crime has been on a steady decline for quite some time now, and hit historic lows in the 90s. You might consider the possibility that, back when you were a kid, the truly violent youth crimes either weren't reported by the victims (embarrassment, fear, etc), or weren't hyped up by the media.

Re:I get misty...

[catdevnull]

It is quite possible that I do not remember or it was underreported. School bullying was never considered "youth crime" unless a weapon was involved. I remember things starting to get more violent my senior year in high school--it certainly seems to have escalated from those days.

However, the hyper-reactionary environment we live in now is palpably different. From the airport to the daycare center, we live in fear of the being the next victim. I just don't want to live my life like that. Is the threat real or imagined? Are our kids really in danger at school or did the "Eye-Witness News Team" bring us to fear that they just might be?

Seriously, man--either we aren't free anymore or the illusion that we ever were is gone.

I think we pre-program our kids to be this way.

A side note:

[Ub3rT3Rr0R1St]

Sorry to the mods who found this redundant, but while I'm writing this, about 20 other people are saying it before I am, and I find it difficult to maintain a train of thought, while checking up on whether or not someone has posted something along the lines of what I'm about to post.

IF I EVER MEET YOU I WILL KICK YOUR ASS!!!

[RLiegh]

Talk about the pussification of /...
In the old days the subject would have been posted at least 50 times by now.

MMORPGs

[Aceticon]

I would say that any mature adult that has frequented any kind of MMORPG is more than keenly aware of the hordes (no WoW pun intended) of emotionally unbalanced, immature, socially irresponsible teenagers running around the place, many of which that, protected under the cover of anonimity, find pleasure and boost their egos by trying to ruin other people's games.

The anonimity of the Internet removes some of the greatest shackels on action (retribution, public shaming, public shunning) for those which feel empowered and have their egos boosted by harassing others (typically, but not exclusively, the above mentioned immature teenagers).

This has been going on ever since the Internet has been opened to people beyond the confines of academia (probably even before).

Personally i would like adults only servers for most MMORPGs to avoid wasting any of my precious 3h/day of playing because of some griefing kid, but that's a different story ...

"the victim of an aggressive email, IM, SMS"

[suv4x4]

Given the large audience of Slashdot, this gives me the change to become the biggest cyberbully on the continent:

you're all morons!!

Re:"the victim of an aggressive email, IM, SMS"

[Shados]

Waaaaaaaah >..

Re:"the victim of an aggressive email, IM, SMS"

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't scare me! I'm just posting as AC because I deleted my cookies and forgot my password. Yeah, that's it... /me kicks you in the shin and runs away.

Get a thicker skin

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never, ever , ever, harm you.

On the other hand, releasing private confidential information should be a privacy violation.

bullying vs libel, not really new anyway.

[Grendol]

Where the threshold is, is best answered by the legal authorities. Illegal libel does happen on a common basis, but is not always legally answered. Usually a publicized conviction and a good explanation to users of things is a good first step to getting a point across, but the liability of the host networking sight might also be in question for some level of aiding the publishing of the libel. The tangled web of criminal liability for the creation and publishing of illegal libel that is often viewed as petty in most scales of the real world makes this a potentially pointless legal quagmire that probably will never by neatly solved.

Hence, realities such as described below are always going to be with us.

Dick libels Jane by posting on a Social Networking Site (S.N.S.) that she has cooties.

Jane's parents call Dick's parents.

Dick's parents say that they will look into it, question Dick who lies, and take his words as true. Being ignorant of the reality of how "this whole S.N.S./internet thing works" Dick's parents pretty much ignore the issue.

Jane's parents are upset by the inaction and call the law enforcement.

The D.A.'s office says it is too busy prosecuting real criminals.

Jane's parents lawyer is happy to oblige at $150/hr fee to notify the said social networking site to cease and desist.

The S.N.S.'s team of $250/hr lawyers respond with a user agreement copy highlighted to show limitations of liability, and make no promises other than to defend the S.N.S from any further legal pursuits by Jane in this matter.

Jane's parents weigh the cost of pursuing the issue with the cost of a family vacation or a car down payment, and decide not to pursue the matter.

Jane tells her boyfriend John about Dick's posting.

Jane's boyfriend John alleges that he will use physical force to make Dick pay for his actions.

Dick posts that John has cooties now because he caught them from Jane.

The vicious cycle continues, Dick, Jane, et.all have increasing dislike for each other, they complete school and enter the real world with all the neurosis they nurtured, just like everyone else.

After we see all of this, and have seen it happen like this for several generations. Why do we expect there to be a new solution to this 'new problem' which is actually quite old, just because there is a computer involved?

You don't understand..

[Anonymous Coward]

Many many many many children (people under the age of 18) don't consider the internet 'real life' see this article for reference.. IRL..

So cyberbullying basically is unchecked because the anonymity of the internet. Some 13 year old kid can basically act however he wants behind his screenname. This same individual can also act completely normal IRL society. I kind of think of it as a brain disorder myself.

No respect

[roman_mir]

There is a general problem with people in North America today (I'll use Canada as example, that's where I live.) People are considered to be helpless children until the age of 12. They are grown to believe that they are completely untrustworthy and helpless before that age. You can't leave them alone anywhere for a minute, someone will call social services. You can't send them to go to a local store to pick up some food and maybe a bottle of Rum, I don't know why it's against the law here. By 6 y.o. I would already go to a food store to buy a few things, among other things a bottle of vodka and a pack of siggarettes too. Not a big deal, I brought that stuff back home, I was happy to help and didn't take any of the remaining change either. But that was Ukraine in the early eighties. Also I knew what the expectations were and I understood the consequences for misbehaviour. So I mostly didn't. If not everything was respect, then some of it was a dose of fear not to get into trouble, since the consequences were real.

Today in Canada on the on the hand, noone will send their kids anywhere until they are 12 (Canada is not the rest of the world, but they do believe here that they've got it right.) There is no chance in hell a kid could buy a bottle of alcohol and a pack of sigarrettes for his father. What the hell, why the hell not? Well, because the kids cannot be trusted here. Why is that? Well because they have no real consequences, no fear and no respect at all. Is it the kids' problem or the parents'? You can decide on your own about this one. But when you have kids with no respect for anyone, you'll have kids who will not understand reason and will be extremely selfish and will cause unnecessary difficulties and harm to others because they have no respect. Obviously the parents don't know what to do at all with kids like that, even worse, the parents will do everything in their powers to prevent their kids from facing any kind of consequences. When was the last time that a parent punished a kid for misbehaving at school, how about punishing the kid when they are rude to their teachers? The parents will prefer to side with the kid and even will attack the teacher and the school, maybe even will threaten with legal actions.

Why are parents afraid and unwilling to teach their kids good manners and respect to others? Maybe they are afraid of the kids themselves, scared of being accused by the legal system that they are abusing the kids? Proably this is part of the problem. Whatever it is, the conclusion is this: parents are not teaching their kids good behaviour, kids are not picking up any kind of good behaviour anywhere else either, kids become spoiled and even dangerous, since they don't have respect for others.

The truth is that children will be mean when they can be, they are basically mean animals until they become human (if it ever happens.) Thus there is bullying. But as someone else said, bullying always existed but it used to be real, not cyber. Maybe the answer to everything will be a completely disconnected cybersociety where people don't have to communicate with each other in reality?

Re:No respect

[cdrguru]

What has been hammered into children over the past 40 years or so is that their parents, school authorities, police and government do not deserve respect because of their position. Any respect they are to be given must be earned.

This opens the door to all sorts of nonsense, such as the parent backing the child when the child is rude to or even physically assaults a teacher.

Of course the parents are afraid of their children turning them in to the police for abuse. Why do you think "child abuse" is such a significant crime today when it is clear that parents were as a rule far more abusive towards their children 50-100 years ago. This is clearly separate from the parents that lock their kid in a cage until age 12 or some nonsense like that. Ordinary "discipline" of 1930 would get a parent thrown in jail today.

Copyright is mostly a matter of respect and practicality. In 1960 it may not have been practical to copy a book or a record for an individual but there was also an underlying understanding that it was just somehow "wrong" to do so. Today any semblance of respect is gone and it is extremely practical to copy and redistribute everything digital. Wrong? I don't know anyone that actually believes downloading music via P2P services is wrong. If they aren't doing it they would like to but have only a dial-up Internet connection at home.

Consequences? There are no consequences on the Internet. Unless you really, really motivate someone you will be protected by layers of agents and businesses that have decided it is their job to protect their customers and users. This of course leads to getting away with just about anything until someone keeps pushing the limit too far.

Re:No respect

[qdaku]

I grew up in rural Ontario. I do remember getting sent out to get my old man a pack of smokes from time to time starting around when I was 9-10. I lived in a small community where everyone know everyone and the local grocery store guy didn't bat an eye. Hell, the guy would even do it on credit. Did I ever even think about cheating my old man? No, there would be consequences. I was given a level of trust, and that level of trust granted me certain freedoms that would be taken away if I abused it (late curfews, access to fun things like dirtbikes, etc). The parents way they dealt with alcohol growing up worked out good too. It didn't matter if I partied on weekends or increasingly during the week as HS ended, as long as I kept a job and got good marks. If either of those slipped, well, they came down on me. It worked, I busted my ass so I could party. Still enjoying the benefits of that instilled work ethic into my Master's now.

Re:No respect

[MostAwesomeDude]

On the one hand, I see stupidity every single day, in all kinds of people. My life experience is that the only respect your elders automatically earn is respect for outliving you. If they want me to respect their decisions, they need to show me their reasoning and not act stupidly and thoughtlessly. On the other hand, I got picked on a lot in school. Y'know, bowl cut, goofy glasses, dimples, kid in the back of the class who everybody picked on because they could get some kind of sadistic joy from it. I didn't crumple; I got stronger. (Or I numbed up, but that's between me and my shrink.) "Thinking of the children," in this case, only turns kids into soft jelly, easily molded into whatever their parents or the state thinks they should be. I may not have respected many of my teachers, but I sure as hell didn't harass them and report them for things that "made me feel uncomfortable."

Re:No respect

[Stradivarius]

There's a difference between respecting somebody, and behaving properly towards them. I was taught (and properly so) that you should behave courteously and
with civility towards everyone. I was also taught that respect is something to be earned - and crucially, that this earning of respect is a two-way street.

The problem is not that people believe respect must be earned. We've had plenty of examples in history and in each of our lives of people in positions of authority whose actions showed they were not particularly worthy of respect. The problem is not people recognizing that. The problem is that some apply the respect-must-be-earned rule only to others. These are the folks who expect respect for themselves but don't act respectably. That, IMO, is what has opened to door to the nonsense you described.

Dude

[malkir]

Why is there a 'Delete Cyber Bullying' ad on the side of /.? Nerds are the ultimate cyber bullies, I'd be more afraid of real-life people bullying than on the internet. What a bunch of tools.

Age ain't nothing but a number

[Nilych]

What makes you think only kids behave that way? I know a few grandparents who get their kicks being asses in online games.

The problem is people behave that way under the veil of anonymity (see the Penny-Arcade raving internet fuckwad theory). It isn't limited to any age group, nationality, race, etc. There must be a limiting factor, maybe sense of humor or intelligence, that prevents everyone on the internet from behaving that way. Or so I hope.

Re:Age ain't nothing but a number

[ForumTroll]

This "age ain't nothing but a number" saying, when used in this context, is a load of crap. Do you hang out with ten year olds outside of work? Why not? After all, "age ain't nothing but a number." It makes practically no difference that there happens to be a couple of kids who are reasonably mature and a couple of adults that are complete jackasses. The reality is that the vast majority of people mature significantly and change their interests as they get older. You're far more likely to find reasonably mature, intelligent and interesting people when you're dealing with adults.

Re:Age ain't nothing but a number

[Qzukk]

you hang out with ten year olds outside of work? Why not? This sums it up nicely

I don't think so

[zogger]

Why would authority really want to eliminate bullying? Generally speaking, that is the class that most all future business and political leaders come from! Example with the same age group, look at the number one top team sport in the US, football. The bullies win, and the conniving and more clever bullies win easier. It's the biggest deal in the public high schools,certainly not the chess club for a counter example, and your team has to physically and with much aggression "beat" the other team, and the team stars are the heroes, pushed by the same authority system that says they are anti bully.

Don't believe what they say, look to what they and society *do* and who gets rewarded or not for successful early childhood indoctrination. Look at the top class of Cxxs and political leaders, what do you see mostly? Aggressive alpha male and female bullies for the most part. They have to "win" all the time, the biz leaders have to "effin kill" the competition, their team (political party) has to win no matter what. The stockholders *demand* it, nore, more, MORE profits no matter what it takes, the grassroots political activist shock troops *demand* it, they have to destroy the competition,swift boat them for example, and exalt their own pack leaders, even to the point of ignoring or excusing blatant illegal or unethical behavior. Bullies get rewarded in our society if they adjust their bullying to the approved methods of the older adult bullies, so I don't believe they are really anti bully, although they make make noises about it.

Re:I don't think so

[ForumTroll]

While some of them may become politicians and business leaders etc., there are a hell of a lot more who just go on to work manual labor and other low wage jobs.

Re:I don't think so

[Damvan]

I always take great pleasure in knowing that the person who bullied me the most has been rotting in Pelican Bay since 6 months after high school, and will be there the rest of his life. Unfortunately, it took the death of another human being to get him there.

Re:I don't think so

[i8-p]

You see the world very differently than I do.

Sure, very competitive, smart people become executives and politicians. And yes, bullies are competitive people. So there is likely to be some overlap, but most bullies won't have other traits needed for them to become successful. Forcing others to go along with you only works on a small scale -- to be successful on a large scale, a leader has to build something bigger than him/herself, inspire that team to be creative, and empower them to make their own decisions. Those aren't typical bully traits.

Re:I don't think so

[Original Replica]

My school bully is also in jail for at least one violent crime. "Malicious Wounding" I believe. In regard to the GGGP I think that you would find that out of the school bully demographic you get the most politicians, slimeball high power execs, and violent criminals. In short all people who are willing to abuse other people to achieve their ends. They just utililize different forms of power over others.

Re:I don't think so

[zogger]

megalomaniacs-bigtime bullies in other words-tend to rise to positions of power because that is their overriding drive in life. Look at history! They then surround themselves with others of similar mindset. Orders then fall downhill. Meek and passive and non aggressive people *rarely* get to any positions of real power, and stay within a lifestyle of following orders and dictates. There have been some exceptions at the top levels, witness gandi (who was an extreme passive agressive actually),-but that is what they are, exceptions.

*Stupid* bullies wind up working drone jobs or go to jail, smart ones become the biggest of business and political leaders because they quickly learn how to game the official bully system. And being part of being a successful and smart bully is exactly what you mentioned, "selling" your point of view to others, using charisma or otherwise, so there we'll have to disagree, I call it and see it as a bully trait, you don't. I see psychological manipulation as being a bully trait, just as much as outright physical force, and for no matter what the reason is, and am rather adamant on equating the two.

small example, theoretical for a point: You can get mugged (or threatened and scared enough) for your wallet, or conned out of cash in some scheme, both are the results of being bullied, IMO. One is physical, one is mental, but the results are nearly identical, the bully now has the cash, and you don't. In both examples, a bullying tactic was used to subjugate the victim, it is a predatory trait.

  Pick out some of the top political bullies of the last century, run the list in your head (including he who can't be mentioned in an internet discussion), then think how they came about. They had intellect, cunning, extreme ruthlessness, superior salesman qualities, with the ability to orate or be an actor (assume false personnas to achieve a goal, ie, social lying), and the ability to inspire huge numbers of people to coordinate their actions..but along his personal goals..

  Schoolyard gradeschool bullies to geopolitical nightmares-a lot of the same character traits. Type A alpha ...bullies.

Re:I don't think so

[bogjobber]

This has nothing to do with The Man manipulating people or greater problems with our society. It's a very simple explanation. You will never get completely get rid of "bullying" in the world, to use your metaphor, because it (generally speaking) benefits the person doing the bullying.

Re:I don't think so

[daem0n1x]

I don't think this is true. Most bullies I've known at school were disturbed kids who had problems at home. They took advantage of the physical superiority to bully others, but emotionally were very insecure and not very intelligent. Most of them are nice guys now, and have crappy jobs. On the other hand, most of the bullied guys are successful, with better jobs.

Abusing other people shows your weakness of character, not strength.

Re:I don't think so

[Slashdot Parent]

Go to your high school reunion. See what became of the bullies. I think you'll find that most of them fared much worse than you.

Re:I don't think so

[jasonjacks0n]

Why would authority really want to eliminate bullying? Generally speaking, that is the class that most all future business and political leaders come from! Example with the same age group, look at the number one top team sport in the US, football. The bullies win, and the conniving and more clever bullies win easier. It's the biggest deal in the public high schools,certainly not the chess club for a counter example, and your team has to physically and with much aggression "beat" the other team, and the team stars are the heroes, pushed by the same authority system that says they are anti bully.

You're almost right - the lesson is that exercising aggression is good, if and only if it's in one of the pre-approved ways. Working against bullying would provide a useful counterexample in that lesson - i.e. "you will show aggression when we say it's okay, not when you think it's okay".

Take soldiers, for instance - you want them to be highly aggressive, obviously, but only in certain ways. Same with "future business and political leaders"...

There's probably a name for it in psychology - some kind of sublimation, maybe? To control someone and still have them be effective, you want to constrain their actions, but encourage them to compensate for those constraints by acting out in other ways. (Ways that either don't hurt you, or (if you're really clever) serve your ends as well.)

Amen, sort of.

[Peter Trepan]

Cyberbullying is only dangerous insofar as it leads to physical assault. It doesn't help that it isn't considered "real" assault when one kid kicks the **** out of another. I fully agree, we should aggressively enforce the laws we already have.

And none of that mess about both the aggressor and the victim getting expelled if they're caught fighting in school.

Re:Amen, sort of.

[R2.0]

"Cyberbullying is only dangerous insofar as it leads to physical assault."

I don't know. To use my previous example, if some teen girl blogs about how she saw my daughter in a liplock with another girl at the mall, and my girl was home at the time, why is that not libel? Or if my son starts getting "anonymous" emails about how he's going to get his ass kicked Wed. after school, is that not assault (the threat, as opposed to battery, which is the act)? Even aside from the fact that it probably won't happen?

To be totally and completely politically incorrect

[Red Weasel]

That same game was called smear the queer in Virginia.

Stupid Noobs

[greymond]

How dare you post this silly piece of trash article. I'm gonna use my e-thuggery to beat the living snot out of you Mr. Slashdot you cry baby pansy. Why don't you go back into your room and listen to The Killers new album you Grand Emo Queen of Sandy-Vaj from Tearland. You disgust me.

Web 101

[Anonymous Coward]

The web was invented for one purpose and one purpose only - the ability to talk shit about other people anonymously. By the way you are all fags!

Sincerely
Anonymous

Fuckin' stick and stones people

[korekrash]

Remember the saying "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me"? I think that is more accurate here than at any other time. How big of pussies do we want our kids to be? Should we make sure that every damned web page has a smiley face on it? Stop feeding your kids anti-depressants and if they complain about someone bullying them on a computer kick their ass and tell them to grow some fucking testes. This is getting outrageous.....more politically correct bullshit...

Re:Fuckin' stick and stones people

[BattlestarGroup41]

Give it ten years until your kid is looking for a job, and the employer finds nothing but shit about him on the internet. The reason cyberbullying is wrong is the same reason there are libel and slander laws. It doesn't matter if its obviously false or not, it can and will cause harm for its victims.

Re:Fuckin' stick and stones people

[Telepathetic Man]

Tell that to these people;

• Seung-Hui Cho
• Kimveer Gill
• Eric Hainstock
• Jeff Weise
• 
  
  Or perhaps any of their "friends"

Re:Fuckin' stick and stones people

[korekrash]

In ten years (more like 20, my kids are 1 and 2), if my kids potential employer is worried about some rumors on myspace or whatever, they probably shouldn't work for such a naive person anyway. I'm an IT director and I do a lot of hiring. The only thing I would take any stock in is something that was posted by the employee, their school or an organization of some repute. "I hate you" and "She's a slut" posted on myspace by someone else is hardly anything I would take into consideration. As for the Virginia Tech guy, I could also say it is the coddling culture that this politically correct shit is creating that is causing this. If they weren't so worried about what a bunch of idiots thought of them, and their parents didn't cultivate this weakness, the guy wouldn't have slipped off his rocker cuz of a bunch of morons in college. If you look into the past of all these guys, their problems started way before the bullying. Cho was thought to be mentally ill by his own family at a very young age, and the rest of them come from some pretty shady backgrounds with some very REAL problems in the REAL world. Alcohol, mental illness and abuse in the household have been the major contributors for these types of actions for a long time and they still are. How bout focusing on getting better treatment and earlier recognition of the mentally disturbed, etc.? To shoot up a school is a cowardly act of a fool and so is bullying. Stop raising foolish cowards that are scared to have people call them names. Instead, give them a backbone and teach them what is right. If you choose to allow the bullying to bother you it does, if you don't it won't. What in hell ever happened to personal responsibility and common sense? If you want to stop kids from turning into lunatics, stop worrying about "cyber bullying" and start looking at their homes. IMO that's where it usually starts.

Yo, I got your line hanging right here

[PopeRatzo]

No it really does not, except in extreme examples like Columbine. Most people who are bullied get over it and become productive members of society, as do the people who formerly bullied.

One thing we've learned since Columbine, is that while it's an extreme example, it was not unique. I suppose, if we're willing to accept a school massacre every few years and dozens of individual killings, and thousands of student suicides, I suppose we don't really have to make an effort to teach our children that bullying is wrong.

The problem is that a lot of Americans don't really think bullying is wrong. We like it when we see a bully on TV, as seen by the popularity of people like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage. A bully in government, like Dick Cheney, is idolized by those on the Right who feel more comfortable when living under an authoritarian. Bullies in Abu Ghraib are considered macho by the Laura Ingrahams and Michelle Malkins of the world. Even in the unreal world of MMORPGs, what's the first thing a lot of players want to do? - Gank some noobs.

No, until bullying goes out of style, there will still be Columbines, and Virginia Techs. Its the price we have to pay for remaining an immature, atavistic culture. It's no surprise that, as we saw in New Orleans after Katrina, the least of our people are treated the worst, and no surprise that the divide between rich and poor continues to widen. One wonders how this can happen in a nation that prides itself on being "Christian". Somehow, the part of Christianity that dwells on humility, service and love got replaced with the desire to stick a boot up your neighbor's ass.

Re:Yo, I got your line hanging right here

[Spellvexit]

Nice point there, Pope Ratzo. While your definition of "bully" is a bit broader than I'd use, online gaming also came to my mind when bullying was mentioned. While at least one poster above claimed that bullying does not beget bullying, I'd beg to differ in the land of PvP roleplaying -- I suppose I should be ashamed to admit I take a certain glee in ganking, which I conveniently justify as fulfilling the cycle of bullying I suffered as a low-level victim. For me, and I'd imagine for most players, this idea of "payback" sure seems powerfully transitive, and the idea of bullying begetting bullying seems alive and well in the online world, given the sheer slaughter and ridicule of newbies at any given "generation".

Online games are not real life, so perhaps drawing comparisons to bullying in real life is a bit specious... but at the same time, the topic is online bullying, isn't it?

Re:Yo, I got your line hanging right here

[PopeRatzo]

Online games are not real life

Tell that to the people who are playing WoW more than 8 hours per day. It's a bigger number than you think.

This is a bullshit claim by ppl w control issues

[gelfling]

There is no such thing as cyberbullying. Guess what assholes, people are mean. They've always been mean. Which would you rather have? Some asshole chick or tude dude whacking off with one hand while s/he types some shit about you with the other or would you rather have that person in your face in person?

Because if it were me if its online I don't care and if its in person I will whip the living shit out of them and stomp on them until they can't type anymore.

If people talk shit about you online then just accuse them of child molestation or something, publically. Fuck them up.

Alexander Peter Kowalski

[Ayanami Rei]

GO TO BED, ALEX!!!

Re:Alexander Peter Kowalski

[Anonymous Coward]

"GO TO BED, ALEX!!!" - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Thursday June 28, @07:00PM (#19682979)

Just about to, with a beautiful woman I met @ work not too far back... & hit it off with not too far after we met!

* Better than you, doing so, with your hand & "kung-fu grip" only... lol!

APK

In Australia...

[Trentus]

Our cyber bullying stories seem to be a lot more rough, or so the stories run on the news say...

Basically, a kid will come along and kick the crap out of you while one of his/her cronies record it on a phone. Or they try to set your hair alight, hit you and then pee on you. It's really quite horrific... I'd love to knock some sense into these delinquents.

Then they upload the vids to youtube so everyone can watch. Seems these kids are getting it easy...

it's blatantly obvious

[ImTheDarkcyde]

the fucking internet is the only place where these shitting teenagers can use cunting naughty words without their bitch parents hearing, (please, note the sarcasm)

the LOUDER and more frequently they say these words, the more adult-like they feel.

Schoolyard hyaenas...

[Savage-Rabbit]

My own personal experience with being bullied in school made me bitter and hateful, with a tendency to lash out both physically and emotionally.

During this time period I did basically two things which gained the respect of my peers - for a moment, anyway. The first time was the first time I got into a real fight with someone determined to beat me up. He was another unpopular kid. He ended up with two black eyes and a bloody dot on his forehead. I ended up with an expulsion ..... Bullying is not a good thing. And the failure of most people (including yourself) to imagine that there might be a superior alternative is frankly pathetic. You are helping to maintain the culture of violence, and that is simply a bad thing. In some ways groups of humans work the same as packs of wolves or hyaenas. You get picked on and if you don't defend your self eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth you will get trampled. I was bullied in school, there was a bigger kid a year older than me who, whenever he saw me, would punch me square in the face to amuse his friends. For a while I did what my parents told me to do and tried to stay out of his way.... unsurprisingly that did not work. I suppose I could have tried to impress him and his crowd by bullying somebody else which is what one of my childhood friends did (successfully I might add) but I considered that beneath me even when I was 13 years old. Finally, after a lot of vacillating, I used the bully's own tactics against him except I didn't punch him I kicked him in the nuts and punched him afterwards. Not very gentlemanly but then again he was a jock and somewhat bigger than me. I got sent to the headmasters office, he sent me a psychologist who showed me inkblot charts and had a talk with with my parents. I got grounded for a while but I could not possibly have cared less because after that a bit of aggressive posturing was enough to ensure that the other hyaenas in the schoolyard left me alone.

Now... I'm not saying one should solve all one's problems with violence but sometimes one does not have a choice. I generally avoid confrontation unless I am provoked but there simply are some people who try to get through life with bullying and impudence. They will only leave you alone when you show them that if they knock you down you will not crawl into a corer, cower and whine like a whipped dog but rather that you will rise up and hurt them right back... punch for a punch, kick for a kick and that you don't not care how much damage you take while doing it as long the fight ends with them taking more damage than you.

The single worst thing you can do to your child is teach it to stay out of a bullies way and to endure the abuse. Children should have to have enough of a sense of honor instilled in them by their parents that they don't go and bully others but they must also learn to stand up for them selves and (others for that matter) when necessary even if it means they might get hurt. The psychological damage done by allowing your child to get bullied and not doing anything about it is worse than any bruise, black eye or bloody nose because it is takes a lot longer to heal and often it never heals completely.

love the blame game

[martin_henry]

The study showed a slightly higher incidence among those visiting social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace. does that mean we can blame these sites?

MOD PARENT UP

[Mewtwo]

This is how cyberbullying should be responded to.

You mess with someone online, they get to do something that messes with you in real life, plain and simple.

Slightly off-topic but just relevant enough to post, I play in collectible card game tournaments, and the local tournament organizer has denied players entry to his tournaments in the past based on seeing that certain players were cyberbullying other players on the message boards for those games. So the bullies were essentially "grounded" by the bullied, being prevented from doing something they enjoyed doing, and this tournament organizer's bans based on a person's character tend to last AT LEAST 1 full year.

It's stuff like that that needs to be happening more often.

Its not a zero-sum game

[BattlestarGroup41]

All this means is that AFTER being physically bullied, kids can come home to even more of it. At least in your day the bullying stopped when you left school. My little brother has been cyberbullied for the past year or so. And he gets all the crap I used to get and then a bunch of other shit too.

I am a troll.

[Anonymous Coward]

As I troll, I see this situation as a very bad thing. Although I must admit we go too far sometimes. This actually happened: 1. Found teenage girls photobucket account 2. Hack account 3. Find nude pictures 4. Post pictures everywhere 5. Send pictures to her friends and family 6. Rumor comes that she may have killed herself This was considered very epic. An insight into the mind of an asshole, if you will.

It's OBVIOUS

[Anonymous Coward]

Normal person + anonymousness + audience = total fuckwad

Schools exist to create hierarchical bullies...

[Paul Fernhout]

You were *both* victims of a school system set up to teach people how to be hierarchical violent "rankist" bullies or their victims. See:
    "The Emergence of Compulsory Schooling"
    http://www.social-ecology.org/article.php?story=20 031028151034651

"Among those who saw the value to the State in controlling schools was Napoleon, who centralized all education bureaucracies in France and took complete control of education in the country.

'No one' it was decreed ' may open a school or teach publicly unless he is a member of the imperial university and a graduate of one of its faculties ... No school may be set up outside the university and without the sanction of its head'...the whole system was modeled on the military regime of its founder. 'The university, in fact, was organized like a regiment. The discipline was severe, and the teachers were subject to it as well as the scholars. When a teacher infringed any regulation and incurred censure, he was put under arrest. There was a uniform for all members of the university: a black robe with blue palms. The college was a miniature reproduction of the army. Each establishment was divided into companies with sergeants and corporals. Everything was done to the sound of the drum. It was soldiers and not men that were to be made.'5

The nature of Napoleonic schooling is important, because when the French Emperor led a devastating defeat of Prussia, the effective schooling of the victors was widely noted. No more so than in Prussia, where after the country was severely reduced and limited following the Jena peace accord of 1806, was left with few national resources to control. ...

By 1819 the ideal of a national system of compulsory schooling was in place, and the Prussian economy and military was booming. Educational theorists from across the Western world came to Prussia to study its schools, and many left enthusiastic supporters. Among the most eager was Horace Mann, a young American aristocrat who was an education official in Massachusetts, which at that time, had a strong network of non-compulsory common schools."

Tactics include being the victim?

[The Monster]

But mom some kid in my class posted on MySpace that I'm a moron, sue him mommy

The most pernicious aspect of this is that the people with the thinnest skins get to define "bullying", while they may do objectively worse things to the "bullies".

Maybe that explains this curious wording:

Tactics cited include being 'the victim of an aggressive email, IM or text message' and 'having a rumor spread about them online'.

I've seen people complain in an online forum that someone's objections to an ideology constituted a personal attack against its adherents, then turn around and declare "open season" on those who espouse the alleged bully's competing ideology.

Then they pat each other on the back for being so much more civil than the 'troll' they've just dispatched.

A nice way out

[Anonymous Coward]

I propose that there be Cyber jails, spread across the breadth of the Country and these Cyber bullies (actually their Hybrid's) be Cyber jailed.

Some of the nice Id's be simply asked to do Cybermuty Server. Once could also extend Three strikes rule, and of course the Ultimate would be Cyber Capital punishment of the Id's of those hardcore Cyber bullies.

Wish there was some simple solution

[sir_montag]

Yeah, I hate it when I get cyber-bullied. I wish there was some simple way of stopping it, like pulling out a ethernet cable or...

Wait...

Just now gaining momentum?

[bmajik]

Crap, we're falling behind Japan in _everything_. There kids have already killed themselves over cyberbullying and the national government is finalizing anti-cyberbullying laws.

We just can't compete with the Asian Tigers :/

not to trivialize this, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I will say that this is harassment, possibly sort of emotional abuse. It sucks. However, there's a key difference between "cyberbullying" and being taunted in school: it's significantly easier to avoid people over the internet than it is to avoid them when you're forced to spend hours in classes with them. You can ignore their IMs and emails. And no one is forcing you to have a myspace account. Can't we focus our efforts on the bullying that happens in person, rather than the more-easily-avoided "cyberbullying"? (Apparently not: we already know that the former is a lost cause, whereas the latter is somehow "new and different" because it's online.)

Re:Alexander Peter Kowalski has 1 thing to say:

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=242965&cid =19681397

That says it all... this is to all the "scrawny little nerds" who think they are smart, that pester others online: Don't think you can get away with it, without penalties, if not eventually!

(Fools like that think they can post forever "anonymously" under some "pen-name/handle" & not be detected & zeroed in on, as to their real name/address etc. et al (well, 1 guy who remains nameless that I mentioned in that url above, who posts here @ this forums thought he could do that, & I 'zeroed in' on his real name within a day's time - TOO easy in fact!)...

* I let HIM be though (he is a graduate student/doctoral candidate, & that I can actually respect, & I do NOT want to wreck HIS life, only to teach HE a lesson).

However, his pals Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little? Other story on those 2...

I am coming @ them, all barrels loaded, with the fullest extent of the law possible, & they only brought it on themselves.

APK

P.S.=> The "sword of damocles" is hanging over their heads, & I would not want to be they, this is certain... but, they caused that for themselves in thinking they could pull the lunacy & madness they have on myself & others (I am not their only victim, but I am the only 1 that fought back & outsmarted them on ALL levels, including computer technical & legal ones)...

Let those 2 fools, in Jeremy Reimer, & Jay Little, serve as an example to idiots that think they are smart, but since they are in the wrong from the get-go, be outsmarted, on ALL fronts... & weasels like that always lose in the end! apk

Just one more step in the pussification of the US

[Bones3D_mac]

Sure... "cyber-bullying" is a faceless, cowardly act of passive-agressive asshats with too much time on their hands, but where does the definition of it end where the definition of "cyber-terrorism" begins? At the rate things are going, the act of being a jerk toward those who piss you off will become a felony offense that could land you in a PMITA prison for a few decades while convicted killers still end up walking free after serving sentences that are only a fraction of that.

(Of course, that's assuming you aren't hauled off to a secret prison in some other country to be professionaally "persuaded" into talking about you're real intentions...)

Hint: Unplug

[Joelfabulous]

I have been bullied in various ways over the years, none all that particularly scarring. I have even been "cyberbullied" to use that hip term, and I agree with the above posts about it regarding anonymity.

Anonymity and such tend to make it all the more jarring in a way, since IMO there are a finite number of perceptions each individual can offer over the internet (i.e. you're either a jerk or a nice person, honest or a liar, etc.). I believe this is because

I'll chalk this up to various things such as the inability to convey emotion easily (i.e. sarcasm, wry tone, joking, gentle ribbing, a calm rational tone, etc.) can all come across as much more abrasive given the other person's mindset and the naked words on the proverbial page. (Well, screen.) I've seen people who know each other fairly well send very angry emails back and forth simply because one person read something into what was said... Something that wasn't even really there.

In my own experience, I used to frequent an online music forum. After awhile, I felt like a comfortable part of the community, and given my honest and trusting nature, I opened up. Long story short, people I thought were friendly to me or at least civil ended up being extremely calloused and insulted me a lot behind my back, and I eventually got wind of it. They thought this was hilarious. Since I had put so much of myself out there, so to speak, I took this sort of hard. On one hand, I was simply annoyed and severely disappointed, since I'd thought some of those involved to be generally nice people. It was probably more teenage drama than anything else (and my manic depressive mindset probably didn't help), but it really struck me at that point in my life. I guess I just forgot the cardinal rule about technology...

Just unplug.

I decided that I didn't want to deal with their crap, so I left. Granted, most bullying situations are not that simple, and in many ways, their attitudes can be infectious and very hard to ignore. In the end, as hard as it may be, it's clear to me that probably everyone needs someone in their corner at times (we've all been through our own set of trials), but we all need to stand up for ourselves as well. I agree with the sentiments about public shunning, disapproval, and such that are harder to implement due to anonymity or "electronic distancing" (i.e. hiding behind a screen), but at the end of day, the solution is much the same as real life... Do what you can to adapt. If you don't like it, change it if you can.

It's all easier looking back, but now that I do, cyberbulling seems kind of laughable by comparison to the more pressing, everyday things that are harder to avoid. I suppose it's becoming somewhat more prevalent due to the Internet being a larger part of young peoples' lives every day. Though I consider a childish, irrational behaviour, it obviously does not necessarily stop there. People can and do change, yet some people will continue to bully for whatever reason. When it comes to cyberbulling, it seems to me that there's one good solution... And that's unplug. (OT: Why don't kids go play outside instead? I run a kids program at the local library and though I love technology, far too many children just come into the library to mooch the computers to play Runescape. There's a good article on TwitchGuru about its impact on children, blahblahblah. Anyways...)

In summary, adapt. It's a natural mechanism (whether you believe in evolution or not -- see the difference between micro- and macroevolution, as needed.)

All the usual disclaimers apply... IANAP (psychologist), anecdote does not equal cold hard data...

Nobody gives a shit.

[Ayanami Rei]

Don't use your real name on the Internet unless you're otherwise famous.
Because frankly we don't give a flying fuck.

This is how people like you get your panties in a twist.
You stake your reputation on it. You try to make a name for yourself.

But you forget. Nothing on the internet is reputable. Everyone is anonymous. Everyone who tries to rise above without merit is ridiculed into dust.

ANONYMOUS IS LEGION. ANONYMOUS NEVAR FORGETS!

BEND OVER AND TAKE IT IN THE ASS AND LIKE IT.

APKTools is shit.

[Ayanami Rei]

Reimer was right. You need to hang up your little Delphi rollerskates and go home.

Re:APKTools is shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Per your subject line?

I can show quite a few links, from the words of others from website's saying they're not:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/389/foowhatev ermakesgooglehappy.html

Would you like them?

"Reimer was right. You need to hang up your little Delphi rollerskates and go home." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @01:40AM (#19686081)

Ah, I keep forgetting you are the "FAMOUS (yet anonymous) Ayanami Rei", lol, & you have the right gained by accomplishments in this field, that allow you to dispense advice & tell others how to live...

"ALL HAIL AYANAMI REI" & roll out the red carpet, for he has spoken!

ROTFLMAO!

APK

P.S.=> Apparently, Jeremy Reimer's hosting provider, siteground.com, recently, making Reimer remove posts on his website about myself says otherwise, & Shaw.ca, Jeremy Reimer's ISP/BSP chastising him for sending me harassing emails also says otherwise as well... & Jeremy Reimer + his friend's showing here on technical matters:

http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?art icleid=41095&cpage=211#feedbackAnchor

DEFINTELY SAYS OTHERWISE, as I got the LAST WORD THERE... lol! apk

You people don't know what cyber bullying is

[El-Wrongo]

Cyber Bullying (dumb word) is not calling someone a dipshit over the internet, it is using the internet as a extension of the real world bullying. For example, Pete is not popular, he don't know why, but he isn't, whenever he speaks up in class, the jocks pick on him etc. Then one day he gets a SMS from a hidden number with a URL that tells him to visit Youtube, metacafe, spikedhumor, whatever, and on this site is a video, of for example him after coming out of the showers after gym, or him on the toilet whatever, exposed for all the world to see. This is cyber bullying, not some anonymous guy on a forum calling you a fag.

Re:You people don't know what cyber bullying is

[blahplusplus]

MOD PARENT UP!

Tinyviolin tag?

[T.E.D.]

Clearly someone's never had it happen to them.

Let me tell you, you have not lived until you've had some nutjob with nothing but time on his hands and an internet connection devote himself to making your life miserable. It truly amazing what someone with no life, shame, or scruples is capable of doing to you.

Re:Hint: Unplug

[T.E.D.]

I have been bullied in various ways over the years, none all that particularly scarring. I have even been "cyberbullied" to use that hip term, and I agree with the above posts about it regarding anonymity.
.
.
.
Just unplug.

OK. As a former victim, I'll bite.

Suppose I unplug. How does that help me when Mr. Crazy is contacting my boss and lodging complaints, contacting my company's customers and lodging complaints, contacting relevant federal regulatory authorities dealing with my company and lodging complaints, setting up websites full of really nasty slander with my phone number and address (work and home) on them, is using test newsgroups to emailbomb my company's mail server. All of this has happened to me, and could happen to you too if you if you manage to tweak Mr. Crazy in some random way only he knows.

How about those disturbed individuals who go that extra mile to pose as you and post your address and info on your wife and / or children on deviant sex sites as someone who is interested in their kind of perverted action? Heck, they can even pose as your wife or kids and set up meetings with pervs at your house (while you are away). All this stuff *has* happened.

The temptation is to blame the victim, I know. I was that way too till it happened to me. You think nobody would go through all that trouble unless there was really something to their accusations, right? Surely nobody is disturbed enough to get *that* nasty for no reason, right? There are some limits to what another person will unfairly do to you for no good reason, right? No, no, and no. A certain percentage of the general public is just totally batshit crazy. Given the amount of people on the internet, the fact is that they are out there, like human land-mines. A real cyberbully is limited in the sick stuff he can do to you only by his twisted imagination.

Yes, you should be strong enough to laugh off idiot flamewars. But true cyberbullying is of a different scale entirely, and nobody should have to "just put up" with it.

Re:Nobody gives a shit. APPARENTLY YOU DO, lol!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Don't use your real name on the Internet unless you're otherwise famous" - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @01:35AM (#19686051)

Don't give advice, until you are famous, @ least to SOME extent. What makes you think I'd listen to you, anyhow?

I'd like to know what makes you so able to dispense such advice, and what makes you so famous that you THINK you can do so.

"Because frankly we don't give a flying fuck." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @01:35AM (#19686051)

LOL! Apparently, YOU do... look @ your frothing @ the mouth reaction (calm down now boy, lol)...

(It seems my post struck a chord with you somehow, and you DO give a fuck, what with all the profanity you use, rotflmao!)

"But you forget. Nothing on the internet is reputable. Everyone is anonymous. Everyone who tries to rise above without merit is ridiculed into dust." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @01:35AM (#19686051)

I forget nothing (except other things I could list below - you know, things you don't have to your name in this field, and that YOU personally will never accomplish as I have).

E.G. - Well, when you've done this in this field, as I have:

WINDOWS NT-Magazine (forerunner of today's .NET magazine) 1997 (iirc, Oct. issue pg. 83) issue review by Mr. John Enck, a technical editor of theirs for SuperCache & SuperDisk by EEC Systems

(They're now SuperSpeed.com - first part was writing up an article featured on their corp. website alongside Mr. Enck no less, about the technical effective uses of Ramdisks, & the latter was on PAID CONTRACT to improve the mathematics & algorithm for tuning their SuperCache product w/ a programmatic addon they shipped w/ their product, & now is incorporated into the main program itself (Mr. Eric Dickman is their CEO iirc, & offered me a job w/ them back in 2003, but life took me to NYC instead of BOSTON) - they ARE A CERTIFIED Microsoft Partner you know, by the by)

WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)

PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there

PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there

CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there

WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there

GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" my work is contained in it

HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), my work is there, first one featured, yet again

(Not as "famous" as some, but certainly more than yourself, "anonymous one", lol!)

When you've done better yourself than I have in that PARTIAL LIST ONLY ABOVE? Then, you can dispense advice, ok? Then & ONLY THEN, might I listen.

(I'd like to know what YOU'VE personally done better, than that...)

"BEND OVER AND TAKE IT IN THE ASS AND LIKE IT." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @01:35AM (#19686051)

LOL, no, I don't get into that, like you obviously do.

APK

P.S.=> Little snide geeks, SO easy to get the better of like "the FAMOUS Ayanami Rei" (not) here... lol! apk

Re:Nobody gives a shit. I do and I have a question

[Anonymous Coward]

You said 'Don't use your real name on the Internet unless you're otherwise famous.' and I know who apk is. He does decent softwares that have been in written publication and his work carried a company in computers to a finalist position at Microsoft tech ed in the hardest category there.

You said 'You stake your reputation on it. You try to make a name for yourself.' and just judging by the list of times he appeared in written publications in magazines and books he appeared in here:

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=242965&thr eshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=19686051

which was in computers, says he has done so, and made a name for himself already, let alone the work that got a company to a finalist position at Microsoft tech ed.

Have you or has Jeremy Reimer done anything remotely like that in written publications in this field for actual work in programs, not just plagiarized content of the articles of others, or mere, newspaper reporting? He has not, and yet Jeremy Reimer uses his real name online.

Perhaps you should tell Reimer that, instead of apk, because judging by the list of what apk has done over time in computers versus the nothing Jeremy Reimer has by way of comparison, there is no contest here.

By the way? Learn to spell 'ANONYMOUS NEVAR FORGETS!', NEVAR is spelled NEVER. If you had not gotten beaten up in high school and had your brains rattled for your 'anonymous rumors' you doubtless spread, and had it done so much for being a scrawny little nerd loser, you might have learned to spell better. Think about it.

Solution: martial arts training

[master_p]

Bullied kids should go through martial arts training. When the bully hears you have some martial arts training, no matter how small, they will think twice about bullying you. The training does not need to be exhaustive (don't go for the championship!), but basic enough so as that the kid develops some self esteem and some basic skills.

Solution

[mapkinase]

Log off and log in only to post something contributing to the eternal collective knowledge of humanity like I just did.

In other news...

[argStyopa]

In other news, a simultaneous survey by Pew research showed a complete absence of testicles in survey respondents.

A 4 year old screaming constitutes an emergency?!?

[NiteShaed]

Okay, I hate having screaming kids on a plane as much as anyone, but what could this kid possibly have been doing to cause the pilot to declare an emergency and bring the plane down? The story is thin on details, so I'd hope there's more to it than I'm seeing, but I'm having a hard time imagining a kid barely out of diapers being an immediate danger to the plane or flight crew.

"Tower, this is Delta 543, I am declaring an emergency and request landing instructions"
"Delta 543, state the nature of the emergency"
"Some kid wants juice and his crying is damned irritating."
"Delta 543, have you suggested to the air marshal that he shoot the offender?"
"Negative tower, marshal has been neutralized by a rather bad headache caused by the screaming"
"Delta 543 proceed to runway 14, we'll have you met by airport police, homeland security, and a squad of marines"
"Roger that tower, hope they bring some juice"

Laws

[Slashdot Parent]

I did some quick googling, and I saw that some jurisdictions in the US actually define what is and is not safe for a child to do alone. Here is a link to one such set of guidelines.

If you think about it, it's pretty absurd. In that county, no child age 7 or under may be left alone ever. When I was 6, I rode my bike to the store, rode my bike to school each day, etc. And I did not live in a rural area or even the suburbs. I lived in the city.

It gets more absurd from there. According to the guidelines, a child aged 17 can be left alone for up to two consecutive nights, but only "in some cases". That's a pretty big jump from age 17 years, 11 months to 18 years when we consider that person to be a full adult, capable of living on their own, making adult decisions, and being held responsible for their actions as a full adult.

Personally, I think those guidelines are absurd, but that is the type of legal environment we live in nowadays. If I lived in that county, what choice would I have? The cops would come take my kids away.

Re: Spelling

[Ayanami Rei]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22a nonymous+is+legion%22+%22nevar+forget%22

I only mispel wurds fer a reason.

I also love how you reply twice to my post, claiming the second time to be a different person in defense of Alex.

That's just lovely. I do enjoy seeing you get your panties in a twist and spend time banging out frustrated retorts (which I barely skim).

I'm not sure what motivated you to post to Slashdot yesterday, but all I had to do was google your name in your rant and I realized you were a basket case.

How could I not poke a hornet's nest through the anonymity of the internet? What better way to prove my point?

You only get mad on the Internet if you try to make it like real life. I say and start shit just for the LULZ.

I agree

[zogger]

I think I made that point, albeit and obviously in retrospect obliquely and not strong enough. The *stupid* bullies-by far the largest amount by the numbers- get drone jobs or wind up in jail for the most part, whereas the brilliant bullies-classifying brilliance as one in a million or some big number like that intelligence and cunning-wise- learn to game and work the system and become our so called business and political leaders in a lot of cases.

Honestly, I don't think this is that hard to see, just look at the latest global crop of the highest political and business leaders.

BTW, although I have never been to either of my attended high school reunions, I did find out one bully I was aware of became a *cop*. No idea on the others and no interest in finding out really.

In school, I was an anti bully, got in fights protecting other nerds who couldn't or wouldn't fight for themselves and when the "system" wouldn't do anything about it and it became chronic abuse to innocent people. Perhaps why to this day I have a prejudice against aggressive predatory humans and their organizations and can note them when they appear, I am just in tune with that sort of mindset in others, learned to watchout for it. Probably stupid, but I sure enjoyed sending a few of the football team swaggering braggarts to the hospital with cracked ribs and broken noses and such like. I'm a little guy but have always been quite fast, helps a lot in social situations.

It is shit. It's slow.

[Ayanami Rei]

You can't even paint the window properly.
Your latest and greatest tool, this registry cleaner, has dubious value. CLSID and GUID verification is useless unless you're installing and uninstalling an egregious variety of shittily packaged applications. You need more than a few dozen dangling CLSID references to slow down regsrv32 or the shell.
Also your product is one of many that do this, and most others check and fix a lot of other common problems that you don't address.

It's not innovative or unique in any way. So why do you insist everyone praise you and your opinions

Re:It is shit. It's slow.

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as it being "slow" (though it has been proven to be the MOST accurate of them all, finding the most invalid entries, in tests done by users themselves, with their own registry data unaltered by test rigging .reg file injections (as Juoni Vuorio used to do, he must think people are stupid or something))?

I write applications I call "good multitasking/multithreaded citizens of the system", that give up CPU time to other applications running, without the OS forcing it.

TO SPEED IT UP SOME:

You can check off the MIDDLE 3 registry hives only, as it finds the MOST invalid entries there usually, & those are the checkboxes on its interface labelled:

CURRENT_USER

LOCAL_MACHINE

HKEY_USERS

(And, then uncheck the far right one, & far left one, labelled (right hand side ->) CLASSES_ROOT & (left hand side ->) HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG)

Additionally - The program will remember these settings for future/subsequent runs as well (all settings on its interface are this way, even its menus).

You CAN set it to REALTIME CPU PRIORITY (if you have a true SMP, HyperThreaded, or Dual-or-More Core cpu), but HIGH CPU PRIORITY will do the job nearly as well, and NOT lock up a singlecore/single cpu system (as REALTIME can on such cpu's of singlecore/singlecpu nature).

The program also saves these settings of CPU priority used for future/subsequent runs as well.

How I run it, personally?

I set it to LOW cpu priority, & minimize it to the tasktray - this way, it's animated trayicon signals me when it is finished, because its animations stop... this is best for background processing, & eats the least resources during its operation.

There you go, to "overcome your objections", as I have all others (like the ones you missed Ayanami Rei, such as reading its install directions & directions for VISTA (or, systems with slower vidcards) & also the fact that killing CLSIDs (class identifiers for ActiveX/OLEServer/COM/DCOM libs is dangerous & WHY))!

APK

Re:It is shit. It's slow. OK - time to tear you up

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, why am I even BOTHERING to argue with you? It is like arguing with "Vasserot" the armless ambidextrian... why won't you answer MY questions first?? They are fair, after all, like... what have YOU personally done better than myself that runs across Windows in ALL of its versions to date of 32-bit nature, without a rewrite?

"King Nothing"... a tune you ought to listen to, imo @ least, lol!

"You can't even paint the window properly." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @03:21PM (#19692773)

Opinions vary, but you don't read well, do you, & this is a known problems (folks that do not read documentation of programs, prior to install, something you complain about)... one thing shareware/freeware guys have to account for, vs. guys coding on JUST systems in a local LAN/WAN environs with uniform equipment? IS running across MANY diff. setups... I do, but you have to READ my boy!

Read on...

I.E.-> IF you have problems with it & not many do?

Read its download page, you can adjust for it on VISTA, or on systems that have a SLOW (in your opinion, slow = shitty, right?) video card, via its interface, OR a .reg file available for it in its compressed file distro.

"Your latest and greatest tool, this registry cleaner, has dubious value. CLSID and GUID verification is useless unless you're installing and uninstalling an egregious variety of shittily packaged applications." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @03:21PM (#19692773)

It's FAR from "latest/greatest", it hasn't been rewritten since 1997, the date of its birth for Windows 9x/NT/2000/XP/Server 2003/VISTA, & yet... it runs FINE on them all.

As to "dubious value": Ok, I guess a smaller registry with less entries to vector thru is "dubious value"... clue - the TINIER it is? The faster you can vector thru entries to init. the OS, AND programs that use the registry... AND, it has security benefits also:

Say, you look @ pr0n, or otherwise "questionable material" on your system from offline... sure, delete those files... think there isn't records of THAT on your system still? There is, & my program finds those & saves you potential problems of that nature as well!

As to shittily done apps? I had to help Dr. Mark Russinovich clear hardcodes (rookie errors) in his pagedefrag.exe program, & he thanked me for it... he missed more though, & I note them here:

http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/index.cfm?art icleid=41095&cpage=211#feedbackAnchor

The same place I am exposing you fools from arstechnica for your bothering myself online (being on topic, since it is about cyberbullying/cyberstalking)... do you know, I could drop your websites in less than 5 minutes time if I wished?

BUT, I don't break the law as you fools do, libelling, email harassing, cyberstalking, threatening & otherwise being pests online to others, as you do.

Proof? Read this:

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=242965&op= Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=19 692773

Gosh, that's THIS thread now, isn't it? Now, if you are NOT an arstechnican?? Why are you bothering with this??? To look stupid some more???

Also, the person who wrote COOLMON, he is from arstechnica, yes? Ask him IF I found lacks of errtraps in HIS app, when it broke down upon failure to account for those like myself, that turn off performance monitoring via extctrlst.exe (a Microsoft tool) because if you do NOT monitor those? Why waste I/O generating them?

Also, before he died (good man from arstechnica, unbelievable), the fellow who wrote SETISpy? I sent him an email so he could apply CPU priority process

I've done nothing.

[Ayanami Rei]

You're right.
I haven't felt the urge to take on big bad Symantec, JV or Microsoft toe-to-toe and try to best them at something. Maybe I don't feel the need to validate myself by beating them at obscure task that no one cares about?

It's like saying I'm the most efficient maker of lamp oil from whale blubber. It's a messy, patented process that does it better than anyone else. If you got a dead whale, I'll get you some cheap amines. Five bucks a gallon.

But Ayanami, we don't use whale blubber for lamp oil anymore. Kerosene is only three dollars a gallon... and we don't even use oil lamps. We have electricity and flash lights for when the power goes out.

Rei: WHALE OIL!!!

You: DANGLING CLSID!!!

You: THE INTERNET AND THE ARS FORUMS ARE OUT TO GET ME

Please take off your tin foil hat and insert it into your mouth.

Re:I've done nothing.

[Anonymous Coward]

"You're right." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @05:14PM (#19694263)

I know, I usually am!

Like I was all these times, since you apparently missed them? I will post them to you, once more, for your reference:

E.G. - Well, when you've done this in this field, as I have:

WINDOWS NT-Magazine (forerunner of today's .NET magazine) 1997 (iirc, Oct. issue pg. 83) issue review by Mr. John Enck, a technical editor of theirs for SuperCache & SuperDisk by EEC Systems

(They're now SuperSpeed.com - first part was writing up an article featured on their corp. website alongside Mr. Enck no less, about the technical effective uses of Ramdisks, & the latter was on PAID CONTRACT to improve the mathematics & algorithm for tuning their SuperCache product w/ a programmatic addon they shipped w/ their product, & now is incorporated into the main program itself (Mr. Eric Dickman is their CEO iirc, & offered me a job w/ them back in 2003, but life took me to NYC instead of BOSTON) - they ARE A CERTIFIED Microsoft Partner you know, by the by)

WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)

PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there

PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there

CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there

WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there

GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" my work is contained in it

HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), my work is there, first one featured, yet again

There were some more outta the U.K. in 2004 but I stopped collecting this data years ago, as well as developing shareware/freeware & concentrate on work related tasks now, only.

(Not as "famous" as some, but certainly more than yourself, "anonymous one", lol!)

When you've done better yourself than I have in that PARTIAL LIST ONLY ABOVE? Then, you can dispense advice, ok? Then & ONLY THEN, might I listen.

(I'd like to know what YOU'VE personally done better, than that... since you see fit to TRY to put me down? I want to know I am @ LEAST speaking to my peer here, IF NOT MY SUPERIOR!)

LOL!

"You: DANGLING CLSID!!!" - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @05:14PM (#19694263)

Uhm... you really CAN'T read, can you? Not only did you miss the fact that my app has self-adjustment for VISTA's new graphics engine (no longer GDI/User, but instead DirectX), & also slower graphics cards, but... my app, in the version I ship to folks? DOES NOT ALLOW THEM TO SEE Class Identifiers... better safe, than sorry.

You blow the WRONG ONES? Things stop working! E.G.-> Tony Arts EZCleaner? It blows out (or used to @ least) the "HELP & SUPPORT ENGINE" in Windows... mine does not, & this is THE classic example that shows mine IS SAFER than his & his is/was rated the best (in a test where mine was not tested by some fellow Leo something).

Again: My PRIVATE model has a tab that shows me those, but I will NOT distribute that to end users, who are not aware of how COM apps work, so they can blow their OS & apps up... do you put matches into the hands of children, that are playing near gas tanks? I do NOT! Nothing against users, but this is NOT a topic for typical users in COM/DCOM/OLEServers/ActiveX controls (anything marshalled by CLSID).

Were mine in that test? I would have won on safety, accuracy (already proven by many users online @ sites like NTCompatible.com. Majorgeeks.com, & Techpowerup.com in head-to-head comparisons of mine vs. others, WITHOUT a prebuilt, injected .reg file to favor mine (as Juoni Vuorio did in his "tests" vs. other programs like mine, he must think people are STUPID!)

All because I

Re: Spelling

[Anonymous Coward]

"I only mispel wurds fer a reason." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Friday June 29, @01:51PM (#19691363)

Yea, I know... I wrote what that reason is (THE REAL REASON) @ the bottom of my last post to you here, the parent to yours.

It's ok - you only brought it on yourself!

APK

Congrats.

[Ayanami Rei]

You got your name in a bunch of cut-rate PC rags. *claps* Your software was featured among inane, page-filler, "top whatever" lists and shareware-of-the-week blurbs. That's like "winning" a poetry contest.

And the interview with John Enck doesn't give you much credibility. This is from the guy that sells software which duplicates/circumvents built-in functionality in the operating system. Anyone can be a certified Microsoft partner. It means absolutely jack in terms of credibility. OTH, if you told me the guy had lunch with Andrew Tridgell while on vacation down under... WELL! Then that's something. Rubbing shoulders with GIANTS!!!

As to the relative benefit or drawback of seeing CLSIDs... I'm glad you took three seconds to consider human factors. That being said, a person would have to be motivated to look for a tool to resolve such registry issues and so they'd already have a passing knowledge of the registry-- ergo they probably think you're babying them.

This is all assuming CLSID cleaniness actually matters (it doesn't... time spent worrying about it is more time wasted then all the CPU cycles consumed by the issue).

As for me? The stuff I do never again sees the light of day. I design systems and software for a company you've probably never heard of (Bechtel, Fair Issac, SAIC, any of this ringing a bell?). I regularly spec, design, build, and administer systems that cost more than the sum of your lifetime income and net worth.

For example... I designed (hardware, architecture) and coded a video recording and wireless switching system for sensitive meetings and conferences. 2 million dollar budget.

So, uh, go home and play with your lacrosse stick. Us geeks have work to do.

Re:Congrats.

[Anonymous Coward]

"You got your name in a bunch of cut-rate PC rags. *claps* Your software was featured among inane, page-filler, "top whatever" lists and shareware-of-the-week blurbs. That's like "winning" a poetry contest." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Sunday July 01, @03:33AM (#19704717)

Windows IT Pro is NOT a "Cut Rate" mag... it's widely respected & read worldwide in fact!

"And the interview with John Enck doesn't give you much credibility" - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Sunday July 01, @03:33AM (#19704717)

LOL, yea... ok: I can say 1 thing with certainty - it gives me MORE THAN YOU HAVE & in written publication... Want some from the web you can verify, on corporate websites?

Check with CENATEK, & if my review of their RocketDrive was the featured one on their front pages from 2002-2005 (until the site I housed it on went down & the data was lost)... my review was featured over ALL OTHER COMERS (from many respected sites online, etc. et al). NO, I did not maintain the site, & thus, it is NOT my fault - could I put it back up? Absolutely, I have its content archived to this very day in fact.

It's a matter of time, which I do not have much of (but, certainly enough to tear up a talker but no action/production blowhard like yourself - I back up what I state, with verifiable facts, unlike yourself. THAT behaviour on your part, makes you the blowhard, & myself defending myself with facts (ones you DO NOT HAVE)).

There are others, that will do for now, & I will laugh as you TRY to invalidate my points, but... I have 1 question to ask you:

Have you done ANYTHING remotely like it? I keep asking that... have you??

QUESTION: Do you like Metallica?

(If so, listen to the song "KING NOTHING", because it describes YOU, perfectly, as well as my thoughts of people LIKE you (using the term people loosely here mind you, in regards to those like you, trollers/blowhards/big talkers & ESPECIALLY nerds that try their crap on others, libelling or harassing them (trollers as you all call them, like it is something to be PROUD of, & it's NOT) etc. et al)).

So, again - Take a look @ the one from EEC Systems/SuperCache then, that was featured in that very magazine.

I was paid for it, & improved that program which sells worldwide to this day, by a certified Microsoft partner, & for that same company? My ideas took them to a finalist position @ Microsoft Tech-Ed, in the HARDEST category, SQLServer Performance improvement.

LOL, man... I rest my case. You're TOO easy to get the better of, & laughingly, on the BALLCOURT YOU NERDS CALL YOUR OWN - computers!

Good Lord - You spend time trolling others, & lol, getting BURNED @ EVERY TURN, by those people like you ridicule (guys who were jocks or are)...

This is the "WHY" of people like you got yourselves beaten up in highschool, why women hated you (you are "NOT MEN", & women KNOW this), & why you took the abuses you did then.

Your "geek angst" & inadequacies are what you types like YOU in, every time. Try hard work, & accomplishment, instead of trolling & talking @ slashdot... it works.

"As to the relative benefit or drawback of seeing CLSIDs... I'm glad you took three seconds to consider human factors. That being said, a person would have to be motivated to look for a tool to resolve such registry issues and so they'd already have a passing knowledge of the registry-- ergo they probably think you're babying them." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Sunday July 01, @03:33AM (#19704717)

I always do... Toni Arts EZ Cleaner BLEW THE ONES OUT FOR "Help & Support" in windows, BECAUSE IT EXPOSES OLESERVER/ACTIVEX/COM/DCOM Class Identifiers to users... mine does not.

I do NOT put a lit match into the hands of those unaware of the costs (typical end users) when they are playing with dynamite.

"This is all assuming CLSID cleaniness actually matters (it doesn't... time spent worrying about

Re:Congrats. Thanks, I'd do the same, but you=0

[Anonymous Coward]

"As for me? The stuff I do never again sees the light of day. I design systems and software for a company you've probably never heard of (Bechtel, Fair Issac, SAIC, any of this ringing a bell?). I regularly spec, design, build, and administer systems that cost more than the sum of your lifetime income and net worth." - by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Sunday July 01, @03:33AM (#19704717)

LOL, think I haven't? I've been professionally writing or co-writing GIGANTIC MIS/IS/IT Enterprise class (many times, many not, as I do as I am told & assigned) systems for over 15 years now or thereabouts.

Can I show this to folks online? No... JUST LIKE YOU, but I can show things I have done, whereas, lol, you CANNOT!

Here is small penis, talking monies... you have NO idea how much I am worth, so quit talking out your ass. I want proofs on the same ballcourt I am showing... ah, that's right - you have ZERO there.

There is 1 thing I have to note, & did earlier: Writing for a uniform set of systems (which I have over time, see the above) such as you see in LANS/WANS companies use, is simpler in that respect in & OF itself - you write shareware/freeware? You have to account for EVERY setup under the sun (& therein, lies the difference).

STILL/again - Anyone can talk a good game - most people want "SHOW ME THINGS", like Microsoft Tech-Ed (ring a bell? See my SuperSpeed.com/EEC systems review by Windows IT Pro mag)...

LOL, King Nothing - YOU ARE TOO EASY TO TAKE DOWN!

You only bring it on yourself, everytime...

APK

P.S.=> "So, uh, go home and play with your lacrosse stick. Us geeks have work to do."- by Ayanami Rei (621112) * on Sunday July 01, @03:33AM (#19704717)

LOL, work like what? SHOW ME!

AND no, I won't leave because you told me so!

This is amusing to myself, cutting you to shreds with your "alleged accomplishments" that you cannot show to anyone as proofs here (I have plenty of those myself but again, how to show them when they are INTRANET based applications) & one I show that is commercially sold & did well & ideas I gave that company took them to a FINALIST @ MICROSOFT TECH-ED? Do the job for me, so your puny attempt @ invalidating it? ROTFLMAO!

You have ZERO vs. it, from yourself!

And, about my playing lacrosse & helping kids learn it too @ times over time?

Perhaps YOU ought to try to build your body (sound body = sound mind, the greek ideal, that ought to be the "GOOD GEEK IDEAL" instead of chowing on potato chips & pepsi only, lol, because looking good? Helps the mind too, & even socially IF you get my drift here)... apk